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crux
12-30-2009, 01:43
Please watch this video I made, I did a SOBO last year and came across several people not treating there water. I recently got some info of a professor in waterborne contaminants and made a video on why you should allways fiter or treat water. Enjoy

Why Filter Water ? (http://www.youtube.com/peaksurvival#p/u/19/RaZGRvyIRdE)

russb
12-30-2009, 06:48
I spend most of my time in the Adirondacks. I emailed a professor at Paul Smiths College (in The Adks) who conducts studies on water quality to inquire, he was unaware of any studies that tested the Adirondack water for biological pathogens. Thus, I am curious as to your professor's data. Of course not all surface water in the US has been tested, and "contamination" is a very wide term. What water sources were tested? What is the contaminant? What is the concentration? What is the acceptable level to be considered safe? A statement that x% of water is contaminated does not provide useful information for one to do a risk assessment. G

In order to really understand the risks, one should know the specifics and not global data. Which backcountry/wilderness water sources along the AT (or where one is hiking) are contaminated with which pathogens and in what concentration?

Lone Wolf
12-30-2009, 07:18
i never have and never will filter water. professors don't know everything.

jersey joe
12-30-2009, 10:17
People take a calculated risk when they don't filter water. Same thing for not carrying maps or hiking alone...all calculated risks.

Bulldawg
12-30-2009, 10:21
I strongly believe and I think LW will agree that people who grew up drinking well water, cistern water, or any other non chlorinated water source, will do fine not filtering or treating their water provided it is from a nicely flowing clean stream. I for one have never treated nor filtered. Now, I would not drink stagnated, non moving water. But if it is flowing, I will usually drink it. Most especially if I am getting it from the source (right out of the ground, like at many shelter sites) or can see the source, I've never even gave it a thought.

Now, if you grew up drinking treated city water, then your body has not developed a natural resistance to nature's bugs and critters, so you are much more susceptible to sickness.

Spokes
12-30-2009, 10:38
i never have and never will filter water. professors don't know everything.

hehehehe...............Perhaps Lone Wolf can do a follow-up video for the most durable TP?

Fiddleback
12-30-2009, 10:42
Cigarettes don't kill everyone or even make everyone sick. The same can be said for dirty water as Lone Wolf's happy experience verifies. Still, I filter/treat. I also wear a seat belt in a car and a helmet when I ride. And take care to exercise and practice proper nutrition...all of which has contributed to my overall health in general and my cardiovascular health in particular. It's "lifestyle" and "risk" consideration.

Going on 33 years since I quit smoking and 50 years of treating water.:)

FB

Rasputen
12-30-2009, 10:46
I strongly believe and I think LW will agree that people who grew up drinking well water, cistern water, or any other non chlorinated water source, will do fine not filtering or treating their water provided it is from a nicely flowing clean stream. I for one have never treated nor filtered. Now, I would not drink stagnated, non moving water. But if it is flowing, I will usually drink it. Most especially if I am getting it from the source (right out of the ground, like at many shelter sites) or can see the source, I've never even gave it a thought.

Now, if you grew up drinking treated city water, then your body has not developed a natural resistance to nature's bugs and critters, so you are much more susceptible to sickness.


Great Point, I grew up with nothing but spring water as a kid. I have a healthy respect for clean water and have never feared any type of spring water providing I could see its origin and there was no contamination from above(hopefully). Drinking spring water is just natural for me. I'm an old country boy and there's nothing better than laying down an slurping it right form the source. Good memories...It has worked so far...

garlic08
12-30-2009, 10:46
I strongly believe and I think LW will agree that people who grew up drinking well water, cistern water, or any other non chlorinated water source, will do fine not filtering or treating their water provided it is from a nicely flowing clean stream. I for one have never treated nor filtered. Now, I would not drink stagnated, non moving water. But if it is flowing, I will usually drink it. Most especially if I am getting it from the source (right out of the ground, like at many shelter sites) or can see the source, I've never even gave it a thought.

Now, if you grew up drinking treated city water, then your body has not developed a natural resistance to nature's bugs and critters, so you are much more susceptible to sickness.

That's a good point. Now that you mention it, I didn't feel comfortable drinking untreated backcountry water until I moved into a foothills community where everyone had residential wells and septic tanks. Because of the septic tanks, it was common to have the wells tested regularly. Every once in a while, a test would come back positive for e. coli, and the owner would "shock" the well with chlorine. But nobody ever got sick--I think there was some immunity to the minute levels of contamination.

I figured if I could stay healthy drinking that well water, what would be wrong with drinking the water upstream of town and ranch? Granted, that's a small percentage of the fresh water in the world, so I'm not arguing with the statistics in the video. Just sayin' there's damn good water out there if you look for it.

white_russian
12-30-2009, 10:54
I talked to a water quality professor from the University of Florida a few years back at the Overmountain Shelter. He told me as long as there are no cow fields above or stuff like that you are good to go without filtering it. I then asked him if he thought the water at the shelter was safe and he gave me a BS legal response about how without testing he couldn't know. Then I asked him if he was going to treat or filter the water from that spring and he confidently said no.

I bet the numbers from that video are worldwide statistics involving groups of people who are stupid enough to poop and bathe in the same water that they drink. Not applicable to the AT. Go ask the ATC how many people have died from drinking the water straight.

Bulldawg
12-30-2009, 10:54
Great Point, I grew up with nothing but spring water as a kid. I have a healthy respect for clean water and have never feared any type of spring water providing I could see its origin and there was no contamination from above(hopefully). Drinking spring water is just natural for me. I'm an old country boy and there's nothing better than laying down an slurping it right form the source. Good memories...It has worked so far...

Exactly.


That's a good point. Now that you mention it, I didn't feel comfortable drinking untreated backcountry water until I moved into a foothills community where everyone had residential wells and septic tanks. Because of the septic tanks, it was common to have the wells tested regularly. Every once in a while, a test would come back positive for e. coli, and the owner would "shock" the well with chlorine. But nobody ever got sick--I think there was some immunity to the minute levels of contamination.

I figured if I could stay healthy drinking that well water, what would be wrong with drinking the water upstream of town and ranch? Granted, that's a small percentage of the fresh water in the world, so I'm not arguing with the statistics in the video. Just sayin' there's damn good water out there if you look for it.

And a very, very small percentage of the water on the AT and most other backcountry trails has farms, ranches, etc. upstream from it. There are some and on those (Toccoa River on the BMT or the Pigeon River on the north end of GSMNP for example) I would probably not even get water from those sources. But for the most part the water up high on those ridges is safe for folks who have grew up drinking untreated water. The exception being maybe where some jacka$$ has let their dog play in the spring head or something like that.

weary
12-30-2009, 11:58
....
Now, if you grew up drinking treated city water, then your body has not developed a natural resistance to nature's bugs and critters, so you are much more susceptible to sickness.
Though I grew up drinking city water, for the past half century I've survived on untreated water. I did do a lot of camping and hiking as a kid, when drinking out of streams was the norm, so I may have gained some resistance to bugs that way.

I succumbed to the advertising hype and bought a filter many years ago, but it has sat unused most of the time since. On the AT I carried some army surplus iodine pills for awhile in case I came across some really stagnant water in a cow pasture.

But the evidence is rather overwhelming that most stomach problems blamed on dirty water result from sloppy trail hygene, not from the lack of water treatment.

Whether you treat your water or not has at most minimal impact on your health. Just use a little common sense on a trail. Favor trailside springs over lakes and ponds. Yes. Free running streams are better than slow moving kinds. But those of us who scurry around in the woods and hills know that most streams get their start or eventually pass through a swamp or a bog.

But not to worry. It makes little difference, anyway.

Filter if it makes you comfortable to do so. It's harmless. I'm less sure about chemicals with the ability to kill things. Some may do more harm than good.

I stopped using my surplus iodine pills after, in a boring moment, I read the label. It said, "if you swallow an undissolved tablet, seek medical help immediately." I looked in my water bottle and there was the undissolved remains of a pill.

Weary

Lugnut
12-30-2009, 12:41
I figure if I would swim in it I'll drink it. You swallow a lot of water swimming anyways and don't get sick.

SGT Rock
12-30-2009, 13:10
Water treatment, filter, no filter, etc. are all like religions. Don't try to talk someone out of what they do because it is based on faith.

DrRichardCranium
12-30-2009, 13:56
from Wikipedia, symptoms of Giardia infection:

Colonization of the gut results in inflammation and villous atrophy, reducing the gut's absorptive capability. In humans, infection is symptomatic only about 50% of the time, and protocol for treating asymptomatic individuals is controversial.[3] (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/#cite_note-Huang-2) Symptoms of infection include (in order of frequency) diarrhea, malaise, excessive gas (often flatulence or a foul or sulphuric-tasting belch, which has been known to be so nauseating in taste that it can cause the infected person to vomit), steatorrhoea (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Steatorrhoea) (pale, foul smelling, greasy stools), epigastric pain, bloating, nausea, diminished interest in food, possible (but rare) vomiting which is often violent, and weight loss.[3] (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/#cite_note-Huang-2) Pus, mucus and blood are not commonly present in the stool. It usually causes "explosive diarrhea" and while unpleasant, is not fatal. In healthy individuals, the condition is usually self-limiting, although the infection can be prolonged in patients who are immunocompromised, or who have decreased gastric acid secretion.[3] (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/#cite_note-Huang-2)
People with recurring Giardia infections, particularly those with a lack of IgA (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Immunoglobulin_A), may develop chronic disease.

Mags
12-30-2009, 15:32
Water treatment, filter, no filter, etc. are all like religions. Don't try to talk someone out of what they do because it is based on faith.

This should be quoted at the start of everyone of these water treatment threads. :banana

Spokes
12-30-2009, 17:17
Why filter water? One word dude- diarrhea.

weary
12-30-2009, 17:48
Why filter water? One word dude- diarrhea.
Why not filter your water? Filters are heavy, and rarely used in a manner that prevents contamination anyway. They are also too cumbersome when one wants a drink quickly. Besides, as a "wise" contributor to this thread has said, "whether you treat your water or not has at most minimal impact on your health."

Weary

Jester2000
12-30-2009, 18:19
Water treatment, filter, no filter, etc. are all like religions. Don't try to talk someone out of what they do because it is based on faith.

Right on here. I think that most people do come around to what they do or don't do based on some personal experience -- people change from filters to chemicals for weight, or people stop carrying treatment all together because they realize they don't use it properly or consistently anyway, or people don't treat water at all and, because they don't get sick, feel no reason to change.

But a lot of the decision making process is based on faith, because there's no way to measure all of the variables involved. I've used 3 kinds of filters, Polar Pure, Aqua Mira, Iodine Tablets, and bleach. And I drink water straight at springs where I'm at the source. I've never (to my knowledge) contracted a water-borne illness. But was that because of the treatment, or was the water I drank clean anyway? Have I actually contracted illnesses, but shown no symptoms? Who knows? But it makes me comfortable to carry (and use) some form of treatment. So that's really more of a faith thing than anything else. There's no way for me to prove that what I do has kept me healthy.

I'm never going to convince Lone Wolf to treat his water, and I wouldn't try. The power to convince is one of my superpowers, but there are way more fun things to try to talk Lone Wolf into.

So I don't try to convince others that they should do what I do, because I hav no idea if I'm right.

I try to limit my posts vis a vis water treatment to information (Aqua Mira can't be sold in CA, Katadyn has excellent customer service, I get jealous of people with gravity filters) rather than advice.

Jester2000
12-30-2009, 18:29
I figure if I would swim in it I'll drink it. You swallow a lot of water swimming anyways and don't get sick.

Years of swimming in kiddie pools taught me not to swallow water while swimming, but this did remind me of an oddity from the PCT. A lot of us were told that Deep Creek Hot Springs might have Naegleria fowleri in it -- an almost always fatal parasitic microorganism that enters your body through your nose and eats your brain. I'll repeat that: IT EATS YOUR BRAIN!

Bonus: There is no treatment.

This, of course, stopped absolutely no one from going in the hot springs. But many of us refrained from dunking our heads in them.

That said, the progressive destruction of brain tissue leads to confusion, disorientation, loss of balance, seizures, and hallucinations, so it might be hard to tell if a thru-hiker contracted it, or if they were just a drunk thru-hiker.

booger
12-30-2009, 18:49
"And I drink water straight at springs where I'm at the source"

I'm sorry Jester, I will have to disagree with this statement. Where the spring emerges is the exit. The source could be anywhere from thousands of feet to tens of miles depending on the watershed. I have tested the water in enough springs and caves in the last 30 years to make me weary of drinking untreated water, but that is just me

beakerman
12-30-2009, 18:49
I'm not gonna convince anyone of anything with this but for what it's worth, I was put in the hospital due to bad water...I was about 50 miles west of the AT. I have been permanently damaged because of this little run in with waterborne buggers and I will not allow it to happen again. I treat every drop of water I use on the trail.

Jester2000
12-30-2009, 18:59
"And I drink water straight at springs where I'm at the source"

I'm sorry Jester, I will have to disagree with this statement. Where the spring emerges is the exit. The source could be anywhere from thousands of feet to tens of miles depending on the watershed. I have tested the water in enough springs and caves in the last 30 years to make me weary of drinking untreated water, but that is just me

Haha! Okay, I'll amend that to say "I drink water straight from the exit." You may want to contact every spring water company to tell them that the line "Bottled at the Source" that they put on their labels is inaccurate.

I'm going to assume you're wary rather than weary, but your post is instructive, and points to the faith-based way many of us operate when dealing with water -- I feel confident that, when in a remote area, as long as no human or animal on the surface could have come into contact with my water I'm okay. Might not be the case, but it's what I choose to believe.

booger
12-30-2009, 19:17
I'm wary and weary, but your right, many things we choose to do in life has an element of faith, and someday if I get the chance to hike a long trail like the AT, I too might just send my filter back home.

weary
12-30-2009, 21:09
I'm not gonna convince anyone of anything with this but for what it's worth, I was put in the hospital due to bad water...I was about 50 miles west of the AT. I have been permanently damaged because of this little run in with waterborne buggers and I will not allow it to happen again. I treat every drop of water I use on the trail.
Are you sure the water was the culprit, not just an organism that frequents water sources, but which is more generally spread through person to person and person to animal contact.

From all that I've read, when I'm on a trail, I'm most concerned about a friendly dog that wants to lap my face after lapping giardia cysts. There's no doubt that giardia is everywhere. But as near as I can tell from reading the scientific literature, one needs a concentration of such cysts, to catch the disease. Giardiasis is a quite rare disease, so rare that only rarely is it detected in the stools of victims.

I was diagnosed as having giardiasis, based on the fact I had been on the trail for six months and was experiencing some of the symptoms. The problem was that no cysts could be found, despite numerous tests. And worse still, none of the standard, very effective drugs, seemed to work.

My doc and I finally concluded the symptoms were caused by a lack of fiber in my trail diet. Anyway, I started eating whole grain breads and raisin bran breakfast cereals and the symptoms vanished.

Weary

SGT Rock
12-31-2009, 07:53
Gotta say that the last big outbreak of gut rot on the AT was not from water - from food prep. And the culprit was Hep A, something a filter wouldn't stop even if it was in the water.

Wash your hands, no matter what choice you have faith in.

Rockhound
12-31-2009, 08:58
I don't filter. I have never gotten sick because of it. Funny thing. The few people I have seen with giardia (or claiming to have giardia) all but 1 filtered their water. Imagine that.

Mr. Underhill
12-31-2009, 09:05
It's a tough call because it's something you cannot see. Also, it'd be good to see some test results using a new filter treating contaminated water vs a filter that been in use for a few months. Anybody ever seen anything like this? If so, probably from the manufacturers. Anything independent?

Lucy Lulu
12-31-2009, 09:15
I agree with Rock and Weary. I have had Giardia, but the Dr. was actually fairly suprised when it was diagnosed. She felt it was much more effective to carry and use Purell than a water filter. She said most stomach maladies she had treated were probably caused by poor hygiene, and not by bad water.

I will admit to not being a diligent filter user. I did not use one on the AT, with no ill effects. I used one after being diagnosed with Giardia on another trail, but quickly became lazy, and sent it home also...:o.

Would I use one now...probably only on the southern CDT. Otherwise, I would probably just carry Aqua Mira for those "scarey sources."

SGT Rock
12-31-2009, 09:18
I've probably done just about every method. Right now I use a Steri Pen. I think the lilght looks cool even if it isn't doing anything for my water.

Jester2000
12-31-2009, 11:24
I have often said that I believe that the majority of "water borne" illness are most likely contracted due to poor hygene in the majority of cases. Nonetheless, in all of those cases there has to be a prime mover that got the illness from water.

I don't think it has to be an either/or thing. I choose to filter my water, and I also choose to use Purell and not share food with others.

SGT Rock
12-31-2009, 13:22
I have often said that I believe that the majority of "water borne" illness are most likely contracted due to poor hygene in the majority of cases. Nonetheless, in all of those cases there has to be a prime mover that got the illness from water.

I don't think it has to be an either/or thing. I choose to filter my water, and I also choose to use Purell and not share food with others.

So you don't do feeds? ;)

takethisbread
12-31-2009, 13:31
I filter but most of the time I feel I could get away with not. Dirty hands are prolly a likely threat as some sugest. As I think about my thru hike, I think I will likely get tired of the freakin water game and just use common sense.

I do steer clear of privy's though. I have general rule to stay clear of areas where human fecal matter collects. Those look like incubators of disease to me.

Spirit Walker
12-31-2009, 13:39
For me filtering is, at least in part, a matter or aesthetics. I don't like drinking feces, period. Whether or not I get giardia is less important than thinking about what else is in the water. I know that a lot of the water I'm drinking has been shared by cows, horses, dogs, beavers, and hikers with less than pristine habits. If the water comes from a top of the mountain spring, I'll drink it without worries. But if there is any chance that there have been people camped upstream, or farm animals, or if the spring is easily accessible to dogs (i.e. on the AT) I'll filter. Where the water source is a lake (i.e. Maine or Oregon), I think about the many animals who play and pee there, including humans swimming with their sunscreen and insect repellant, and I filter. I've also seen a lot of water sources with dead animals in them, and it makes me cautious.

Like most hikers, I get lazy after a while. I'll arbitrarily decide that a source is okay, even when I don't have a clue as to what's upstream, just because I'm not in the mood to filter. I am lucky that I have a very cosmopolitan gut, that is used to all sorts of odd microbes. But as I said, it's the mental aspect of it that makes me carry a filter. I don't like drinking dead squirrels or the noodles that some idiot tossed in the spring, or the soap that they used to wash their hands and left in the drinking water, or the pee that their dog left when he came to take a drink just before I did. So, when I am in areas that get a lot of use, I filter.

wudhipy
12-31-2009, 14:23
Convincing arguements on all sides. It is likely true that hand washing will prevent most "water borne illnesses" as with proper cooking of food, Maybe it's just me but why filter water and cook with filthy hands and utinsels. Personal hygene is just that ....personal....Just a heads up, I'll only have enough t.p. for me on this hike...LOL

Jester2000
12-31-2009, 15:25
So you don't do feeds? ;)

Feeds are, of course, a blight on the trails and should be avoided at all costs. Mainly 'cause we can't afford to keep feeding all these people.

I know Rock was joking, but the point is well taken -- I noticed on the PCT that there were a couple of town places where hikers got sick after leaving them. And a whole bunch of hikers complained about food prep at those places, and how they thought they were food poisoned.

But in actuality, they were places where:
a) a whole lot of hikers were gathered and
b) people let their hygene guard down

So you have 20 or so people, and at least one of them is sick. And now instead of cooking and eating only your own food, people are handing around bags of chips, and spooning community food with their own utensils and passing around bottles, not to mention passing a pipe around to a whole crew of people.

And they're going to the bathroom, but unlike on the trail they're not using Purell (that's in their pack).

And people get sick. Big surprise? Not really.

So the thing is, you can go to a feed, or stay in a hostel or trail angel's house with a bunch of other people. Just be careful how you share food (how about everyone pouring those Combos into their hands instead of reaching into the bag), and keep cleaning your hands.

Doctari
12-31-2009, 21:15
i never have and never will filter water. professors don't know everything.

Ditto!!

Plus more words to be allowed to post. :p

JoshStover
12-31-2009, 21:19
Ever since I got Giardia I have treated and will always treat ALL water while on the trail...

SGT Rock
12-31-2009, 23:08
Ever since I got Giardia I have treated and will always treat ALL water while on the trail...

I just read that and thought: How do you know the water caused the problem? Most likely it was from hands coming into contact with Giardia and then you ingested the stuff from contact with your hands to food or mouth.

Not to pick, but this could be like saying:

I was in a car accident once, and since then I will never fly in an airplane again.

JoshStover
12-31-2009, 23:16
Im pretty sure it was from the water man. Not sure how you know more about my situation than I do but most people on here seem to think they know more than the next person...

SGT Rock
01-01-2010, 00:12
Im pretty sure it was from the water man. Not sure how you know more about my situation than I do but most people on here seem to think they know more than the next person...

I never said I did. Just going off what the CDC says about Giardia. Don't be so defensive.

And, see what I meant about challenging people's faith.

JoshStover
01-01-2010, 00:15
Im not being defensive at all man. That my have came off that way but I didnt mean for it to. Def not towards you SGT just some people on here think they know alot more than they really do....

SGT Rock
01-01-2010, 00:15
Cool, Have a happy new year man;)

JoshStover
01-01-2010, 00:20
You to brotha, maybe Ill see ya on the trail!

SGT Rock
01-01-2010, 00:29
God I hope so. I'd rather be there than here.

Pacific Tortuga
01-01-2010, 00:43
Im pretty sure it was from the water man..





the water man, didn't he hike in 07 ? :)

JoshStover
01-01-2010, 00:54
God I hope so. I'd rather be there than here.

You and me both! This has been one hella sucky year for me and pretty much everyone I know!

Doctari
01-01-2010, 12:56
I filtered / treated for a short while (maybe 8 years) but not every time, and not for about 30 years before. I must say though, that I grew up on a farm, so drunk from wells, cisterns, & local creeks nearly all my life. I have also been drinking from streams while hiking since I was about 5 & the only water treatment available then was Iodine & it was hard to come by.
Yea, I get "the big D" from time to time, but no more than anyone else. AND I have drunk from a stream without treating, while my partner treated, he got sick, I did not.
Maybe I'm just lucky. I am somewhat careful and don't drink if it looks bad, whatever that means. :p

Wolfmaan
01-01-2010, 13:27
I have *always* filtered my water, no matter where I go. The filters are light weight, easy to maintain and fairly small to pack. It's worth filtering to save your life in the back country.

Wise Old Owl
01-01-2010, 13:38
http://animal.discovery.com/invertebrates/monsters-inside-me/lung-fluke-paragonimus-westermani/

Recently folks on the Mississippi are getting this.

blackbird04217
01-01-2010, 13:40
During my hike I didn't filter or treat unless I decided by a 'gut' feeling. I only brought the Steripen for these 'gut feelings'.

However, I grew up in the sticks, drinking from wells and out of every stream around, so I may have grown more immune than had I lived on city water all my life.

There was a one week time where I treated all water as I hadn't been feeling good; although I think that was just general sickness. As soon as I stopped treating water I started feeling better. Coincidence; possibly, but consider the fact that there are good bacteria as well.

Also another side point, I am less worried about some bacteria bug than I am about chemicals from my own species; oils, gas, and other chemical dumping. And your filter, iodine, bleach etc does not treat this.

moytoy
01-01-2010, 13:55
I always filter my water through my kidneys. I'm going to continue doing that as long as I can.

weary
01-01-2010, 14:09
.... most people on here seem to think they know more than the next person...
One reason behind most of these forums is the sharing of information and beliefs. Are you suggesting that when I disagree with a bit of information that I should just remain silent?

Wise Old Owl
01-01-2010, 18:57
Weary ignore the poster....

Jester2000
01-01-2010, 19:13
Also another side point, I am less worried about some bacteria bug than I am about chemicals from my own species; oils, gas, and other chemical dumping. And your filter, iodine, bleach etc does not treat this.

Hmmm. If that's the case then the activated carbon granulate in my filter isn't doing its job. One of us doesn't know what my filter does and doesn't do. To be honest, it might be me, but I don't think so.

Wise Old Owl
01-01-2010, 19:14
Gotta say that the last big outbreak of gut rot on the AT was not from water - from food prep. And the culprit was Hep A, something a filter wouldn't stop even if it was in the water.

Wash your hands, no matter what choice you have faith in.

Due to a recent "discovery Channel" program most folks "80 percent" have been exposed to Hep A and becomes a problem when the immune system is compromised from other issues. Just to add what was said FYI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatitis_A

blackbird04217
01-03-2010, 14:39
Hmmm. If that's the case then the activated carbon granulate in my filter isn't doing its job. One of us doesn't know what my filter does and doesn't do. To be honest, it might be me, but I don't think so.

As far as I know if you stick a filter in liquid (whatever the liquid be) you are going to get the liquid on the other side; oils might be caught by some filters as it is a thicker liquid, in such case you might be right; but I would guess that gas and/or similar chemically infested water will still pass through the filter since its still liquid.

My point is a filter is not making sure only 2 hydrogen molecules and 1 oxegen molecule gets through; IE the end result is not necessarily h2o; which is where I am coming from - could I be wrong sure. And in the event I am wrong I might actually consider it worth carrying a filter or something for polluted waters; but bleach, iodine, chemical treatment and the steripen all do not help with the chemicals in the water (as far as I know).

Jester2000
01-03-2010, 14:48
As far as I know if you stick a filter in liquid (whatever the liquid be) you are going to get the liquid on the other side; oils might be caught by some filters as it is a thicker liquid, in such case you might be right; but I would guess that gas and/or similar chemically infested water will still pass through the filter since its still liquid.

My point is a filter is not making sure only 2 hydrogen molecules and 1 oxegen molecule gets through; IE the end result is not necessarily h2o; which is where I am coming from - could I be wrong sure. And in the event I am wrong I might actually consider it worth carrying a filter or something for polluted waters; but bleach, iodine, chemical treatment and the steripen all do not help with the chemicals in the water (as far as I know).

You should google "activated carbon." It's got some very interesting properties. The thing is, many filters on the market today do not have it, and for some (Katadyn Hiker Pro, for example), hikers don't use the activated carbon it because it slows the filtering process, and they don't anticipate being in places where man-made chemicals will be an issue.

But it does filter out (by attraction) many of the man-made contaminants about which you're concerned. You can even make your own activated carbon filter if you're into that sort of thing.

JoshStover
01-06-2010, 22:04
Weary ignore the poster....
Why should he ignore me?

weary
01-06-2010, 23:39
Why should he ignore me?
I can't imagine. When are you starting? Be sure to let us know when (if?) you quit.

JoshStover
01-06-2010, 23:49
What? Im not quite sure what you are asking?

JoshStover
01-07-2010, 00:00
I can't imagine. When are you starting? Be sure to let us know when (if?) you quit.

Are you saying that I wont finish my thru? I hope thats not what you are saying. I would think everyone on here would be supportive and encourage people to finish if thats what they REALLY want... Ya know what I mean?

weary
01-07-2010, 14:14
Are you saying that I wont finish my thru? I hope thats not what you are saying. I would think everyone on here would be supportive and encourage people to finish if thats what they REALLY want... Ya know what I mean?
No. I was just being mean. Sorry.

Two Speed
01-07-2010, 14:44
http://animal.discovery.com/invertebrates/monsters-inside-me/lung-fluke-paragonimus-westermani/

Recently folks on the Mississippi are getting this.So don't eat "undercooked crabs or crayfish" and it shouldn't be a problem . . . which brings us back to food prep.

Wise Old Owl
01-07-2010, 14:52
Well Two Speed,

its the same threads over and over again, filter or no filter, boil water, drink from a stream.... Drinking fecal matter doesn't bother some folk, and others just die and cannot complain anymore.

Tinker
01-07-2010, 15:07
This one says it filters out some chemicals as well as the cooties that other filters remove. http://www.generalecologycanada.com/firstneed.html
I've noted before that adding chemicals to kill the cooties doesn't do anything to remove chemicals which are nearly always present to some degree near civilization, and that chemicals which kill cooties (tough little buggers) may not be good for humans in the long run.
We all take risks, it's just a question of WHICH risks we're willing to take and why.

Two Speed
01-07-2010, 15:52
Well Two Speed,

its the same threads over and over again, filter or no filter, boil water, drink from a stream.... Drinking fecal matter doesn't bother some folk, and others just die and cannot complain anymore.Ya lost me there. The link you provided is concerned with a parasite that cannot be addressed with filtration or water treatment, then we're off talking about drinking fecal matter. Technically speaking fecal matter is a solid. Do you mean water contaminated with fecal matter?

Dogwood
01-07-2010, 17:23
This thread, all the data, even the lack of consensus among scientists or those who study water quality, the conflicting reports involving where, when, how, etc one takes drinking water, the geographical region where one drinks water, the spreading of pathogens more by human contact rather than by pathogens in the water, etc. aptly demonstrtes to me just how subjective this issue is in the U.S. Coupled with all that I know about treating or not treating water in the backcountry leads me to believe that my case by case determination of whether or not to treat backcountry water is RIGHT FOR ME. What others feel is right for them or they feel comfortable w/ is obviously up to them. As far as I know, I've never had a(one) problematic symptom from a water borne pathogen from backcountry water sources and, overall, I treat my backcountry water less than 10 % of the time. Either I'm the luckiest hiker ever or the seriousness of the matter is not as widespread as we have been led to believe by some.

Graywolf
01-07-2010, 20:42
Please watch this video I made, I did a SOBO last year and came across several people not treating there water. I recently got some info of a professor in waterborne contaminants and made a video on why you should allways fiter or treat water. Enjoy

Why Filter Water ? (http://www.youtube.com/peaksurvival#p/u/19/RaZGRvyIRdE)

I can understand why people want to treat water, but concerning the video, she never said she was a professor..Which video did she say that?? Not the water treatment one..And her statistics are off the chart.. "25 million people die in the U.S.." Hmmm, that sure is a lot of hikers dieing if she was refering to hikers, but she never did...Anyway, if that was true, the CDC and the U.S. Government would be jumping on this like ants...

Even though I understand why hikers would want to treat..I don't, at least not all the time. ( depends on the source), but it is safe if you are unsure.. However, I cannot subscribe to her veiw points. Some of her data are way off the charts and in my book, used as a scare tactic...Which is also dangerous...

Just my view..

Graywolf
01-07-2010, 21:30
I must add,

Please people, please, do your research before using any chemicals in your water..Yes, P. permanganate, is used as a water treatment but normally in very large quanities of water where only a fraticon of amount of P.p. is applied..

The chemical in it's self is a very dangerous and poisonous.. It is an irritant, will burn the eyes and skin so must be handled with care..It is also an irritant in the uterus, and is used in illegal abortions...

ARE you sure you want this in your system??Becareful people, please be careful..

I can understand treating water, but don't take it serioiusly.. This woman, who ever she is, has not done all her research, and her information can kill..

I am certified in food hazardous materials, and this is a diffenite hazard..

here is a couple of websites, I can post more if anyone would like..

www.epa.gov/ogwdw000/mdbp/pdf/alter/chapt_5.pdf (http://www.epa.gov/ogwdw000/mdbp/pdf/alter/chapt_5.pdf)

www.members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/poiso024.html (http://www.members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/poiso024.html)

www.waterdrs.com/water-information/water-contamination-facts/ (http://www.waterdrs.com/water-information/water-contamination-facts/)

I would like to see every one having a joyful time hiking, BE CAREFUL OUTTHERE!!!

Graywolf

kanga
01-07-2010, 21:41
what is so hard about this subject?
if you want muddy water with no bugs, use a steripen.
if you want shizzitny chemical tasting water that make yours shizznits smell hospital clean, use drops.
if you want clear, mostly clean water, use a filter.
if you are a badass, drink it out of the the stream.
if you are a pussy, filter it through 4 filters, shock it with bleach, and then make somebody else drink it first, wait 8 days and see if they show symptoms.
if you want to die from the painful, bloody shizznits, drink from a storm drain on the side of a deserted country highway lined with anitfreeze bottles and the beast beer cans.
what did i miss?

kanga
01-07-2010, 21:43
it absolutely astounds me the number of people that don't have some common ****ing sense.

Graywolf
01-07-2010, 22:03
Some people just blow things up way more than they should...

http://www.forumsextreme.com/images/sFi_fire.gif

Graywolf
01-07-2010, 22:22
Here is a good site for water purification..

Lots of good stuff that some here may find boring, but all in all, good info to know for those who wants it..


http://zenbackpacking.net/WaterFilterPurifierTreatment.htm

Hope this helps

Graywolf

Jester2000
01-07-2010, 22:34
it absolutely astounds me the number of people that don't have some common ****ing sense.

I'm going to start referring to the asterisks used to blank out obscenities as "kangarisks."

Not So Fast!
01-07-2010, 22:35
The following is taken from WebMD:

"Good sexual health may mean better physical health. Having sex once or twice a week has been linked with higher levels of an antibody called immunoglobulin A or IgA, which can protect you from getting colds and other infections. Scientists at Wilkes University in Wilkes-Barre, Pa., took samples of saliva, which contain IgA, from 112 college students who reported the frequency of sex they had.
Those in the "frequent" group -- once or twice a week -- had higher levels of IgA than those in the other three groups -- who reported being abstinent, having sex less than once a week, or having it very often, three or more times weekly."

If you are getting giardia, you are clearly NOT getting enough of something else! More trail nookie, people!!:banana

Jester2000
01-07-2010, 22:38
There are scientists in Wilkes-Barre?!? I didn't even know there was a university there . . .

futurethruhiker
01-07-2010, 23:22
I know that often your water must be collected from a nearby water source but was wondering if any shelters closer to roads have water piped in and if so does it need to be filtered?

jrwiesz
01-08-2010, 04:29
The following is taken from WebMD:

...More trail nookie, people!!:banana

One good reason for staying at shelters, the orgy begins at 9p!!! :banana

Please be sure to wash your hands prior to participation. :banana