View Full Version : Homeless People Living in AT Shelters?
Daydream Believer
01-01-2010, 20:21
I have to ask...we ran into a guy at Woody Gap last weekend who said he "lived" on the AT in the shelters. He was an older man and he had strapped to his pack a bow and arrows...looked like a cheap plastic bow also. He certainly gave the impression of someone down on their luck in his appearance. He was friendly though and we chatted a little as we passed by him.
Rockhound
01-01-2010, 20:34
homeless must like the A.T. because people will actually stop and chat with them rather than turn their heads and walk briskly away.
I have to ask...we ran into a guy at Woody Gap last weekend who said he "lived" on the AT in the shelters. He was an older man and he had strapped to his pack a bow and arrows...looked like a cheap plastic bow also. He certainly gave the impression of someone down on their luck in his appearance. He was friendly though and we chatted a little as we passed by him.Posts about homeless people on the AT and at various shelters on the current thread "Living on the AT".
Tuckahoe
01-01-2010, 20:39
Back in October, we met a young man at Blackburn trail center who was from New York. He was unemployeed with no prospects and no place to live. He figured that he would have better luck in Georgia. He had hitch hiked as far as Harpers Ferry and there he hopped on the AT and was going to take the trail to GA. We gave him the rest of our food as we were heading home and wished him luck.
He was a pretty nice, and pleasant young man and I hope he is getting along ok.
Lone Wolf
01-01-2010, 21:10
shelters are a great place for the homeless to take up residence.
johnnybgood
01-01-2010, 22:48
Unfortunately a sign of the times. better than living under a bridge in an unsafe city.
There was a closed cabin on the LT (Hazens Notch Camp) that was occupied by squatters in 1975. They were armed and would not let hikers stay. They were removed by the police, and the shelter was moved a few miles further from the road.
I don't think sheltering and feeding the homeless is a hiker's job.
Daydream Believer
01-01-2010, 22:57
Posts about homeless people on the AT and at various shelters on the current thread "Living on the AT".
Sorry I missed that part but thanks for pointing it out.
Anumber1
01-01-2010, 22:58
Did the guy at woody gap have a missing tooth?
shelters are a great place for the homeless to take up residence.
A roof over their heads, unlimited supply of fresh meat (provided they have a mouse trap)...
Skidsteer
01-01-2010, 23:03
Did the guy at woody gap have a missing tooth?
That doesn't exactly narrow it down in GA. :D
Wise Old Owl
01-01-2010, 23:05
Disillusioned young people, elderly, mentally challenged. Our current government & church organizations are swamped with the current needy. Last year I had the opportunity to "assist" a teenager to get help in our current community and was shocked how little service is available. Even after I found her a place to stay, she had to "arrive" at 4 pm to sign in for a lottery for the last remaining safe bed in town for winter. Three weeks later she was kicked out on a small infraction and had to start all over again.
Clearly Shelters on the AT are no surprise, If a shelter mouse only requires three things, water, food, and warmth or shelter from the elements to survive, its the same for people too.
modiyooch
01-01-2010, 23:11
My theory is that the homeless stay in the cities where there is access to food. That would be a long commute from an AT shelter to the soup kitchen on a daily basis.
I know there would be no good way to realistically enforce this--but there should be a time limit on how long a person can stay in a shelter or be permitted to camp in any one general area. (With some exceptions being made for injured hikers who are recovering and/or periods of really poor weather).
In my opinion, after three days, it is probably time for a person to be moving on to somewhere else.
Shelters, and any "campsite", are not really intended for long term use by hikers or (other) homeless people!
camojack
01-02-2010, 00:44
Seems to me that if they're living in a shelter...then that IS their home.
(So they are not homeless. QED :-?)
I know there would be no good way to realistically enforce this--but there should be a time limit on how long a person can stay in a shelter or be permitted to camp.
There are limits and they are enforceable. See ATC's Regulations and Permits (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4805493/k.749B/Regulations_and_Permits.htm) for specific information.
On Pennsylvania State Game Lands, through hikers (http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/058/chapter135/s135.42.html) are permitted 1 overnight stay before they are expected to move on and in many other Pennsylvania locations where camping is permissible a 1 or more often a 2-night limit applies.
I appreciate the fact that rules and limits do exist regarding the length of stay--but solid enforcement of those rules would be almost impossible to accomplish (except in certain limited locations).
The AT is a lot of territory to "police". Certainly there is no good way for "rangers" to check the sleeping location of every person, every day, at every shelter or along every mile of the trail--and to also keep track of it.
I have hiked and camped at places with mandatory permits and with strict limits upon the number of nights that you can stay in a location. Park rangers literally came through multiple times daily and checked and signed your permit, However, even with that detailed of a process in place--many people found ways to get around the system.
Certainly the AT cannot be supervised that vigorously.
johnnybgood
01-02-2010, 10:22
Enforcement of regulations in our national parks are difficult during the winter months when seasonal rangers are not around. Imagine trying to patrol every section of the AT and discerning who is a vagabond and whose a legit hiker especially if typical backpacking gear is present.
I'm certainly not advocating that hikers should feel obligated to pony up their coins or feed some vagrant out of trepidation unless they feel the compassion to do so
One day we may find ourselves in that mans shoes.
Just sayin'
.
LimpsAlong
01-02-2010, 10:28
That doesn't exactly narrow it down in GA. :D
Thats rich!
Daydream Believer
01-02-2010, 10:36
Did the guy at woody gap have a missing tooth?
Neither one of us remembers if he did or not. :-? Sorry!
mweinstone
01-02-2010, 10:55
imagine fifty homeless liveing at each shelter. year round. hunting illegally. rearanging things and closeing the fourth wall and pipeing the spring into it.dragging all manner of found stuff on site. growing pot,occaisonally venturing into towns for trash.being loud and drunk and causeing hikers to pitch elesware.i got no problem with this. we live in desprate times getting worse. our hope must be to share what remains. to remain calm. and forgive each other for transgressions. i myself am at the nearby end of my proverbial rope. i have no carfare to continue job hunting. 3 eggs. and am concidering/faceing,,, throwing my possesions out and my lifes work of my bible illustrations and moveing to a mens shelter. i know how to find work. im skilled. ive made 50000.00 a year since i was 16 and still i have come to this. i lost my job of 11 years and cannot get benifits without a lawsuit as i was fired and for raiseing safty concerns and the evil boss says he has a signed resignation from me. i was sexually harassed and treated badly those 11 years at pine realty. and i could borrow to live but im not that scared of being homeless . i know one day god will raise me up as an artist of note and i will be in a position to help others. untill then, any failure of my world is acceptable. i had no exspectations comming into this life but to live. poor and cold and hungry or not. ill be fine. and god is with me. but yes shelters one day must be lived in by the destitute. its just where weve drivin our sociaty. soon, laws will be prohibitively exspensive to enforse. no one will care about rules. its going doggie dog if you haddent noticed. ive been screeming this since childhood. so im ready inside.
The AT is a lot of territory to "police." Certainly there is no good way for "rangers" to check the sleeping location of every person, every day, at every shelter or along every mile of the trail--and to also keep track of it.
It doesn't require full-time "rangers" monitoring overnight stays on a linear trail that gets as much use as the AT for authorities to learn of individuals who are clearly not hikers.
johnnybgood
01-02-2010, 11:36
Matthewski the prodigy has spoken .:)
Lone Wolf
01-02-2010, 11:56
homeless folks living in shelters on the AT is a non-issue.
Wise Old Owl
01-02-2010, 12:10
homeless folks living in shelters on the AT is a non-issue.
I agree and even when rangers show up the homeless are far more adept at "disappearing" when the ranger approaches, so it's fair to say its unenforceable. I met one guy and while we were sitting on a bench talking he suddenly got up and walked deep into the woods, five minutes later the ranger walked trough I said hi and he didn't stop and the guy came out a little later. Still don't know what tipped him off.
Homeless folks living in shelters on the AT is a non-issue.
I agree and even when rangers show up the homeless are adept at "disappearing," so it's fair to say its unenforceable.
It would seem those responsible for managing the AT don't agree with your POV. Once squatters "disappear," it's no longer an issue, is it?
Wise Old Owl
01-02-2010, 12:54
It would seem those responsible for managing the AT don't agree with your POV. Once sqatters "disappear," it's no longer an issue, is it?
There a key difference, managing vs police. The most the ranger could do is possibly arrest, or harrass by doing his job. Emerald we have seen these posts before where hikers get stopped when the trail comes to a town and the officer starts asking a lot of questions.... FYI I too have been stopped while hiking when I was younger. Some are just better at talking our way around and out of it.
They cant even police the park next to me very well, and it's 3000 acres... They still manage 11 arrests each year, but hey they are trying.
Did you ever notice there isn't a lot of visual difference between a hiker and a squatter?
Did you ever notice there isn't a lot of visual difference between a hiker and a squatter?
I pointed out the difference in an earlier post. Squatters on the AT aren't ordinarily as well equipped as hikers and they aren't hiking.
They are especially apt to be noticed by legitimate hikers who may take it upon themselves to notify officials anonymously. There are many eyes trained upon AT including trail club members and local residents who have seen both and are capable of distinguishing between the two.
Big difference between squatters and homeless people who stay at a shelter for a day or two and move on to the next one. As long as they are hiking, why should anyone give a crap if they have a home or not?
sasquatch2014
01-02-2010, 13:40
I have run in to a few here and there the most that happens in the majority of the case is they are told of the time frame for staying at one shelter and are asked to move on. they move on tot he next one for a few days and then can move back.
All the folks I have met have been very nice and a few have been a few bubbles off plumb they are no more insane than most of the other people I deal with on a daily basis myself included. They often have less of an attitude and sense of entitlement than some hikes I meet. I am always interested in their story and often it is amazing how it is one or two small turns of events that separate me from them and their situation.
As LW stated it is really a non issue. Unless you look to make it an issue.
As LW stated, it is really a non issue.
Better to report suspicious or illegal activity and let authorities determine whether and how to proceed than to wish you had done so when it's too late.
Daydream Believer
01-02-2010, 14:43
I didn't mean to make it out like it's an issue when I posted this. I felt sorry for the man I met. He seemed lonely and his equipment was not great...and being in the woods this time of the year, AT shelter or not, is no picnic. Been there done that and it's even colder this week in Georgia than when I overnighted with my nice sleeping bag and insulated mattress last week.
I was just a bit surprised to find someone who was, by their own admission, living on the AT. I remember he told us that Suches, just down the road from Woody Gap, had a nice store. We thanked him and said that we did not need supplies. I suspect that is where he was coming from. He was headed NoBo back towards Gooch Gap.
I agree with the others that many of us are only a few paychecks away from a disaster and times are not getting easier to anyone. I certainly have no interest in causing trouble for anyone but would hate to hear this man was found frozen to death one day or died alone from some sickness. I would not even know who to report it to...
Better to report activity that may be inappropriate and let authorities make that determination than to wish you had done so when it's too late.
What does homeless have to do with "activity that may be inappropriate"? I've seen "hikers" with new expensive gear camping (squatting?) at shelters and tent sites. Does an inexperienced person new to the AT and hiking who happens to have lousy gear and is poor somehow have less status and rights than the more fortunate?
white_russian
01-02-2010, 15:09
It doesn't require full-time "rangers" monitoring overnight stays on a linear trail that gets as much use as the AT for authorities to learn of individuals who are clearly not hikers.
So the AT is only for hikers? What defines a hiker?
Is it wrong for someone to legally just hang out somewhere 14 days and move to the next spot for 14 days in a national forest area?
I would not even know who to report it to...
Short answer: ATC or in Georgia ATC/USFS. I'll post a link later should someone else not get to before I do.
What does homelessness have to do with "activity that may be inappropriate"?
Maybe nothing if the homeless individual is hiking. Those who appear to have adopted the AT as their home and have no post-hike plans, are ill-prepared and are potentially a danger to themselves or others could be a cause for concern and the individual(s) involved may have resources available to them that might be called to their attention.
Some long-distance hikers are homeless in that they sold their homes or do not have somewhere to return once they have completed their planned hike and whether or not they are homeless may not be easily determined, important or any business of particular individual hikers.
I've seen "hikers" with new expensive gear camping (squatting?) at shelters and tent sites. Does an inexperienced person new to the AT and hiking who happens to have lousy gear and is poor somehow have less status and rights than the more fortunate?
No, the two have the same rights. Someone isn't a squatter until he or she exceeds the number of overnight stays permitted at a location and the quality of one's gear is irrelevant in relation to that question.
Sir-Packs-Alot
01-02-2010, 15:43
I sympathize of course - and God forbid - I might hang out on the AT if I found myself in their shoes one day. BUT -I've hiked alone and felt a bit uncomfortable staying with a few "homeless" people. I gotta say that so far it's been mostly my issue - most of them have been very cool - except for one time hiking the section through the Smokys a couple of years ago in the Spring. The gentleman there said he had a horrible bee-sting allergy and no type of meds for treatment. He said that it had stranded him there at the shelter. Next morning I found him rummaging through my pack. He quickly hiked on past bee covered wildflowers to avoid a confrontation - but I hear he returned to that shelter for some time - with the same excuse. Hopefully that kind of thing doesn't get too widespread. My hiking partner Shamrock was near Hot Springs last winter and a down on his luck individual was carrying around a rusty machete for protection. Needless to say Shamrock hiked further down the trail and camped. Better safe than sorry though - I think it'd be a good idea to keep other hikers informed about these situations (shelter journals and trail-gossip) and notify ATC law enforcement about anyone suspicious like these two. Suspicious meaning more than just "homeless looking though" - we don't want to go overboard with profiling. P.S. - I know some hikers down here in GA who claim they met Meredith Emerson's abductor. They admitted that they wouldn't have hiked on if they were alone in a shelter with that "skinny little old guy".
Sir-Packs-Alot
01-02-2010, 15:45
F.Y.I. - ATC Law Enforcement's Phone #: 304-535-6171
SurferNerd
01-02-2010, 15:47
That just saved me some time. Just programmed into my phone, thanks!
F.Y.I. - ATC Law Enforcement's Phone #: 304-535-6171
So the AT is only for hikers? What defines a hiker?
The Appalachian National Scenic Trail is a unique long distance footpath. There are many places where camping is prohibited or where state or local regulations or policies apply to protect this experience as well as the resources the AT protects and the interests of local citizens.
There are many places in some cases better equipped to provide for the needs people primarily interested in camping.
Is it wrong for someone to legally just hang out somewhere 14 days and move to the next spot for 14 days in a national forest area?
Unless it's specfically prohibited, I believe it's permitted. What's an acceptible number of overnight stays on National Forests differs considerably from what's permitted elsewhere. USFS policies with respect to camping on National Forests are some of the most liberal on the AT, but their policies are not the same everywhere.
It is a issue if you hiked all day and found a homeless crackhead living in the shelter where you planed on spending the night , This happened to us a few years back at the pine swamp shelter in CT.
I tried speaking to the guy but he was so messed up he could hardly speak, We ended up at another site about 5 miles away and contacted a DEP officer who removed the guy.
I would have helped the guy but being homeless is different then being a druggie.
F.Y.I. - ATC Law Enforcement's Phone #: 304-535-6171
See also the ATC page Reporting an Incident on the AT.
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.5129395/k.18A4/Reporting_an_Incident_on_the_AT.htm (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.5129395/k.18A4/Reporting_an_Incident_on_the_AT.htm)
Graywolf
01-02-2010, 16:36
It is a issue if you hiked all day and found a homeless crackhead living in the shelter where you planed on spending the night , This happened to us a few years back at the pine swamp shelter in CT.
I tried speaking to the guy but he was so messed up he could hardly speak, We ended up at another site about 5 miles away and contacted a DEP officer who removed the guy.
I would have helped the guy but being homeless is different then being a druggie.
This thread is really pissing me off. Even though some here have said some very meaningful posts, there is also a lot of "profiling", like "Homeless Crackhead", etc, etc,..Not all homeless does drugs or even drink, for that matter..Yes, there maybe a few but to label is B.S. All of society has it..I know more people with jobs and homes that does more crack than I would ever see..It is really a sad state of affair...
If I became homeless, hiking would be the one place I would want to be than spending my time at a homeless shelter with more chance of being robbed or killed..I read it all the time in the papers..
So What if a guy is down on his luck..Not all homeless are bad folks, and would like to be out of their situation..Stop labeling, it makes me sick..Have a heart..
The AT and hiking in general, is not only for the wealthy. I guess, if some one came down the trail wiith less than perfect gear, maybe smiling and having the time of his life..What are you going to do?? Call the cops because he is not up to your standard??
Geezze...this is sickening.....
Lone Wolf
01-02-2010, 16:39
homeless people living in shelters on the AT aren't a problem or an issue.
Chaco Taco
01-02-2010, 17:19
homeless people living in shelters on the AT aren't a problem or an issue.
So why are we talkin about it? Arent thruhikers considered homeless?:-?
Lone Wolf
01-02-2010, 17:21
Arent thruhikers considered homeless?:-?
not hardly
Maybe they are these days. Years ago, many posted hometowns beneath their given names in AT registers.
Graywolf
01-02-2010, 17:32
Reada journal years ago of a man who literally lost it all. Packed up what he had in a backpack then hiked the AT. After that he hiked the PCT..Said he will hike till he figured out what to do next..That is the way to spend your time...
But then, how homeless can you be when your home is on your back..
Maybe they are these days. Years ago, many posted hometowns beneath their given names in AT registers.
Well that makes a bunch of sense. Listing a hometown in a register means you have a home. Home town, the town where your home is located. If you are homeless, you can not have a hometown.
Have we reached the point in this thread where the folks that make up make believe problems and dangers and the people who have gotten caught profiling poor people or homeless people as crack heads and dangerous demons make excuses instead of just shutting up after realizing there...(enter your preferred insulting name or action here).:banana
Reada journal years ago of a man who literally lost it all. Packed up what he had in a backpack then hiked the AT. After that he hiked the PCT..Said he will hike till he figured out what to do next..That is the way to spend your time...
But then, how homeless can you be when your home is on your back..
I am a few months away from doing that myself.
In 1998 I got sick and was out of work for a year. I lost my home and everything I had. I was less than 30 days from being out on the streets myself when I got a lucky break and got a really good job. It can happen to anyone....
This thread is really pissing me off. Even though some here have said some very meaningful posts, there is also a lot of "profiling", like "Homeless Crackhead", etc, etc,..Not all homeless does drugs or even drink, for that matter..Yes, there maybe a few but to label is B.S. All of society has it..I know more people with jobs and homes that does more crack than I would ever see..It is really a sad state of affair...
If I became homeless, hiking would be the one place I would want to be than spending my time at a homeless shelter with more chance of being robbed or killed..I read it all the time in the papers..
So What if a guy is down on his luck..Not all homeless are bad folks, and would like to be out of their situation..Stop labeling, it makes me sick..Have a heart..
The AT and hiking in general, is not only for the wealthy. I guess, if some one came down the trail wiith less than perfect gear, maybe smiling and having the time of his life..What are you going to do?? Call the cops because he is not up to your standard??
Geezze...this is sickening.....
Read the post right,No profiling here, He was smoking crack from a coke can, I often give directly to the homeless but not DRUG ADDICTS.
I work for the CT prison system for the last 18 years - most as an intake officer and see almost every crack week.
It is sickening that you think they belong on the A.T.
I meant I see crack coming in weekly,
shelterbuilder
01-02-2010, 20:01
Oh, I know that I'm gonna get in trouble for jumpin' into this one....
Given the "fact" that some hikers could indeed be "homeless" and still fit the typical definition of a "hiker" (without regard to his/her equipment), I think that we're confusing the terms "homeless" and "indigent". If someone is on a long-distance hike, they may well be "homeless", in that they they have given up their home in order to go on this "grand adventure" of a hike. This was planned from the start. As far as I can tell, the person is a hiker, homeless or not. But if a person is on the trail because they've lost everything and "have no place else to go", then I would have to call them "homeless", whether or not they are hiking from shelter to shelter.
It is people in this last group who have no place being on the trail - NOT BECAUSE WE NEED TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST THEM, BUT BECAUSE - VERY OFTEN - THEY ARE ILL-PREPARED TO BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. With a K-Mart sleeping bag, cotton clothing, scrounged food, and (possibly) no real understanding of what they could be facing in the out-of-doors, it falls to the hiking community at large to support them (via handouts and the use of the shelter system) and bail them out of any trouble in which they may find themselves. I, for one, believe that our culture needs a better way than this to help these people...and no, we don't have it yet!:(
Graywolf
01-02-2010, 20:32
Read the post right,No profiling here, He was smoking crack from a coke can, I often give directly to the homeless but not DRUG ADDICTS.
I work for the CT prison system for the last 18 years - most as an intake officer and see almost every crack week.
It is sickening that you think they belong on the A.T.
I never said anything about druggies...geeze....
So you think all homeless people should be in prison..Your full of it...
So the AT is only for hikers? What defines a hiker?
Is it wrong for someone to legally just hang out somewhere 14 days and move to the next spot for 14 days in a national forest area?
My parents did it for years. Not because they were homeless, but because my Mom loved camping at Dolly Copp in the White Mountains. She took her six kids camping there from almost the day we were born. (I was born on May 4. I was camping by June.)
After most of us moved on, she continued to camp there from June through October. When the 14 day limit was imposed, she would pack up her gear, move to a private campground overnight, and then return. As she approached 80, a ranger noticed, and decided that after a half century, she had more rights to the area than he did. He told her that she could stay as long as she wanted as long as he was a ranger there.
Weary
Ron Haven
01-03-2010, 00:20
homeless people living in shelters on the AT aren't a problem or an issue.I'm with you on that Wolf.
Geezze...this is sickening.....Gray Wolf it is true.I know lot's of people fear homeless but I have took many of them in to town,Let them clean up and wash their clothes and give them lodging at my facilities..I have offered them work and many were great people.
I don't want to call names but many who know me knows that some I have dealed with a bad one or two.
It is a great feeling to me to see someone get a jump start and do well.I know what it's like myself to be broke with no money,but I feel blessed more than I will ever be worth so if I can lend a helping hand to someone I will.
sasquatch2014
01-03-2010, 12:42
One of the most memorable hikers I had ever met was a fellow who was going by the name of Moses SoBo 08. He had learned about the trail when he was working up near Lee Ma. When his job up there ended he decided to walk back towards home on the trail. He if I recall correctly lived down in Alabama or something.
When I met him in Pawling his pack was something that he had created from Sapplings not the most comfortable looking thing. He would do great drawings in the shelter logs and made Dream Catchers as well. He made a big one that is at Native Landscapes and he made some for the Mayor as well. He spent close to a week in and around the Pawling area. He was having some shoulder problems due to a motorcycle accident a number of years back and I am sure made worse by his current pack. I had an old pack that I had picked up for $10 years ago and gave that to him to use. A few days later I got a call from him saying he had something he wanted to give to me. It was a drawing that he had made and it was strung in a wooden frame he had made. It hangs in room to this day.
Later in the winter I had heard from him he had made it down into Pa when he found winter work fixing up houses for someone. His plan was to continue on south once the weather broke in the spring. I keep hoping to hear from him again just to see how he is doing.
According to a bunch of the posts on here I guess he would fit the defintion of some for a "homeless" person that I should have called the authorities on because he was oversatying time at the shelters or town pavillion and didn't have the right gear. For me he is someone that my life is a bit richer for having had the chance to meet.
My point was how hikers are outfitted can provide some clues about them like how well they are prepared and their ability to provide for themselves. Their behavior is often even more instructive.
Shelterbuilder's post should serve to get the discussion on track and help some get beyond their hangups. I believe he and I are very much in agreement and not far from positions others have taken now or previously when this same issue has been raised before.
People who cannot provide for themselves have no business on the AT and need to remove themselves from it to secure employment if they have any hope of improving their prospects.
sheepdog
01-03-2010, 15:07
My parents did it for years. Not because they were homeless, but because my Mom loved camping at Dolly Copp in the White Mountains. She took her six kids camping there from almost the day we were born. (I was born on May 4. I was camping by June.)
After most of us moved on, she continued to camp there from June through October. When the 14 day limit was imposed, she would pack up her gear, move to a private campground overnight, and then return. As she approached 80, a ranger noticed, and decided that after a half century, she had more rights to the area than he did. He told her that she could stay as long as she wanted as long as he was a ranger there.
Weary
that is awesome
I took playpens for my kids and camped when they were babies.
ShakeyLeggs
01-03-2010, 15:08
People who cannot provide for themselves have no business on the AT and need to remove themselves from it to secure employment if they have any hope of improving their prospects.
I guess that means a large number that start the trail every year. How many times have we seen someone start the trail so unprepared that we know just from looking at them that they will not make it to Neels. But later we see that they did indeed finish the trail.
The moral of the story is you cannot judge a book by it's cover.
sheepdog
01-03-2010, 15:08
I'm with you on that Wolf.
Gray Wolf it is true.I know lot's of people fear homeless but I have took many of them in to town,Let them clean up and wash their clothes and give them lodging at my facilities..I have offered them work and many were great people.
I don't want to call names but many who know me knows that some I have dealed with a bad one or two.
It is a great feeling to me to see someone get a jump start and do well.I know what it's like myself to be broke with no money,but I feel blessed more than I will ever be worth so if I can lend a helping hand to someone I will.
you da man shortbus :sun
You don't need expensive or fancy equipment to hike the trail...I hiked 850 miles through rain and snow with a sleeping bag I bought at Walmart for $10. Most of the clothing that I wore on my hike was purchased at discount stores.
Nobody bats an eye when someone cooks their food with a stove made from a soda can, but yet somehow their nose goes up in the air if you don't have a name brand tent or pack or sleeping bag.
Like anywhere else in life, yeah, its nice to have good stuff, but not everybody drives a Lexus.
Lone Wolf
01-03-2010, 16:09
i pretty much eschew the majority of the "hiker community" because they are so cliquey and elitist like emerald who are quick to call a number to report someone they don't approve of
sasquatch2014
01-03-2010, 16:33
My point was how hikers are outfitted can provide some clues about them like how well they are prepared and their ability to provide for themselves. Their behavior is often even more instructive.
Shelterbuilder's post should serve to get the discussion on track and help some get beyond their hangups. I believe he and I are very much in agreement and not far from positions others have taken now or previously when this same issue has been raised before.
People who cannot provide for themselves have no business on the AT and need to remove themselves from it to secure employment if they have any hope of improving their prospects.
Some of the people who you believe need to improve their "prospects" are the richest people I have ever met. i had a great job pulling down good pay with lots of stock options climbing my way up through the corporate ranks only to realize years down the road that I missed some of the best years of my kids childhood. If in your infinite wisdom you can now tell me which employment I should seek to be able to buy that back please do post it.
You can keep citing rules and regs from all the different organizations and I'll keep up the belief that one should FTS! The more we regulate and over protect the more we make criminals of the ordinary citizens. A little revolution every once in a while is a good thing.
My point was how hikers are outfitted can provide some clues about them like how well they are prepared and their ability to provide for themselves. Their behavior is often even more instructive.
People who cannot provide for themselves have no business on the AT and need to remove themselves from it to secure employment if they have any hope of improving their prospects.
Your point is very obvious. You think you have the ability and right to judge people by your own set of standards. Having this belief, you are inviting others to do the same. Thankfully, it appears most who hike the AT are not interested in being spies who squeal to the government authorities every time someone appears different, non-conformist or not in lockstep with the mass's.
In regards to people removing themselves and having no business of the AT and finding a job, well, in case you are not aware, the AT is owned by the American people and every American and every guest to our country has a right to be on it and hike it.
Johnny Thunder
01-03-2010, 16:45
What you're seeing is someone so horrendously locked into his original arguement that he refuses to listen to reason. Just another troll...move along.
Graywolf
01-03-2010, 16:52
Your point is very obvious. You think you have the ability and right to judge people by your own set of standards. Having this belief, you are inviting others to do the same. Thankfully, it appears most who hike the AT are not interested in being spies who squeal to the government authorities every time someone appears different, non-conformist or not in lockstep with the mass's.
In regards to people removing themselves and having no business of the AT and finding a job, well, in case you are not aware, the AT is owned by the American people and every American and every guest to our country has a right to be on it and hike it.
Well said, 55!!!! And asking Emerald this question, how many start the trail every year with no home, no job, and no place to go after the trail!!!not knowing what to do until it's over..Thesde floks too are, in diffinition "Homeless", so what do you do with that Emerald??
As for as ill equiped, what is your idea of ill equiped??? Just because someone gets there equipment from a department store dosnt mean they can do much better or worse than someone who has "high" dollar equipment...I for one took a light weight fleece blanket with me on the trail last year and not a sleeping bag..Would you have pulled out your cell phone and call the "authorities" becuase I had something you most likely wouldn't approve of???
I think that is way too over blown and trying to police something you really know nothing about..If someone down on their luck finds hiking the trail a good thing, then I say Go For It...Everyone does it every year...
saimyoji
01-03-2010, 17:28
any of you guys seen rambo?
Plodderman
01-04-2010, 17:00
Not so sure if they were homeless or not but there seemed to be many around the shelters in Damascus living the life. They had some good stories to tell.
mweinstone
01-04-2010, 17:49
shhhhhh,.... listen,....here that?,.......i think its the sound of a poster who prolly hates muslims and blacks. bet? i got ears like a ,.....i got nothin.
mweinstone
01-04-2010, 17:53
okay. lets say joe is walking down main street any trailtown and high on crack and robbin folks. and lets just say for the sake of arguin, a very slow and room tempreture meteor swoops out of the sky and picks up joe and lands him on the AT. he has a right to walk off of it in order to be in accordance with your wishes aint he? and while walking back to town for more crack , he would be on the AT. WHAT TO DO?
Johnny Thunder
01-04-2010, 17:58
okay. lets say joe is walking down main street any trailtown and high on crack and robbin folks. and lets just say for the sake of arguin, a very slow and room tempreture meteor swoops out of the sky and picks up joe and lands him on the AT. he has a right to walk off of it in order to be in accordance with your wishes aint he? and while walking back to town for more crack , he would be on the AT. WHAT TO DO?
I need to know more about Joe. Give me normal "Guess Who" clues.
Johnny Thunder
01-04-2010, 18:00
On second thought I think Joe has every right to be there.
I was once almost axe murdered by a (now former) GMC employee. If that dude can work on the AT Joe can sure as **** live there if'n he wants.
Home is where the heart is.
I love the posts that always call for "enforcement" of this or that. Do we really need the government to be involved in all things. Besides, why kick them out. If you don't like it then move on to another spot. Maybe the dude is down on his luck and trying to figure things out - having his head bashed in by a cops baton will not help him. Our society is too eager to call in the authorities - "Oh, that's not correct -hurry call 911".
Feed them, don't feed them, pray with them, drag them behind the shelter and beat the crap out of them, just don't call the law.
One day there will OnStar on yuppie backpacks -
"OnStar, whats your emergency?"
"Please send help, there is a smelly person in the shelter and I'm afraid he will touch my Patagoochie sweater and get it all yuckie!".
"We have your location and help is on the way."
Have a little compasion is all I'm sayin'.
Wow this post is still going, Don't flame me but some homeless would do just fine on the trail and others would not, I bring bag lunches to some people who live outdoors downtown when I can and speak to most of them,I find some have mental problems and many are alcoholics and yet a few are just down on their luck and a pleasure to speak with.
I can remember back in the 1960's when the railroad came thru town and the hobo's would do day labor then move on, we were so poor that I can remember a few giving me their spare change.
Home is where the heart is.
I love the posts that always call for "enforcement" of this or that. Do we really need the government to be involved in all things. ....
Well, I'm not in favor of kicking homeless folks off the trail. I had a delightful conversation one afternoon with a woman in Virginia who claimed she was the "legitimate" queen of England, but had to give up her home and live on the trail because the CIA was after her.
I was glad to keep her secret. But that was 17 years ago. I suspect Obama by now has given CIA more useful things to do, or perhaps she has moved on to other realms. (she struck me then as being even older than I've become), so I guess it is all right to finally "out" her. But to be on the safe side, please don't tell the CIA about my post.
But, admirable as the goal of no government involvement in trail matters may be, it may be difficult to keep the government out of Appalachian Trail things, since had government not intervened and bought the land where the trail corridor now exists, and had it not continued to spend a few million a year to support ATC and its maintaining clubs, and, incidentially, paid for a ferry service for crossing the Kennebec River, the trail would not be anything like the trail as we know it.
One thing is sure, it would not be a continuous footpath, just a few disconnected links wandering around the east coast mountains.
This is just a long winded way of saying, that we are all homeless in some manner or other, and we should let sleeping dogs lie.
Weary
I would like to clarify my first post in this thread (# 14), which was the one which seemed to have launched Emerald (and thus, others) into a portion of this debate.
Personally, I am not against homeless people being on the trail--even year around. I am not concerned with what kind of gear people have. I am not worried about how much money they have in the bank or whether they must rely on the charity of others to survive. It is a public trail and it is open to all. I want it to stay that way. I don't think that we should try to police who can (or cannot) be out on the AT.
My issue was the length of time that people should be permitted to stay at the same shelter or same campsite.
Generally speaking, I don't believe that ANYONE should stay at the same shelter or the same campsite for more than three consecutive days (unless they are recovering from an injury or are "waiting out" some really crappy weather). I personally do not believe that it is good for the shelters, the environment, or for the relationships between people on the trail if some individuals become too settled in one place (or become too territorial).
I think that it is beneficial if people "keep moving" along the trail--whether they are truly homeless or whether they own a multi-million dollar mansion. The AT is a National Trail--not a National rest stop or a place to erect your permanent residence.
I then commented that such a "three day policy" would be virtually impossible to enforce.
At that point, when a couple of people responded to my comments, the debate and mini-fireworks apparently began....
Personally, I am not in favor of rangers going up and down the entire length of the trail--stopping everyone multiple times daily and asking to see our identification and our permit papers. I don't think that we (as hikers) need to be calling the authorities and reporting homeless people or reporting poorly equipped hikers (unless they appear to be injured or are a clear danger to themselves or others).
sasquatch2014
01-04-2010, 23:50
Home is where the heart is.
I love the posts that always call for "enforcement" of this or that. Do we really need the government to be involved in all things. Besides, why kick them out. If you don't like it then move on to another spot. Maybe the dude is down on his luck and trying to figure things out - having his head bashed in by a cops baton will not help him. Our society is too eager to call in the authorities - "Oh, that's not correct -hurry call 911".
Feed them, don't feed them, pray with them, drag them behind the shelter and beat the crap out of them, just don't call the law.
One day there will OnStar on yuppie backpacks -
"OnStar, whats your emergency?"
"Please send help, there is a smelly person in the shelter and I'm afraid he will touch my Patagoochie sweater and get it all yuckie!".
"We have your location and help is on the way."
Have a little compasion is all I'm sayin'.
I love it Patagoochie!
I for one won't be calling the cops or rangers on them when you do that they tend to want to know who you are. With my luck I am on someone's hold and detain list. Wouldn't be the first time and I am sure it wont be the last.
Often Guilty, Often Accused, But Seldom Guilty of that I am Accused.
Monkeyboy
01-04-2010, 23:53
okay. lets say joe is walking down main street any trailtown and high on crack and robbin folks. and lets just say for the sake of arguin, a very slow and room tempreture meteor swoops out of the sky and picks up joe and lands him on the AT. he has a right to walk off of it in order to be in accordance with your wishes aint he? and while walking back to town for more crack , he would be on the AT. WHAT TO DO?
Wait for the next drive-by meteoring........
Graywolf
01-05-2010, 00:04
One thing I might add, What is a poorly equipped hiker anyway??I think the way some "Ultra- liteist" equip them selves is way poorly equipped..But that is my take and I will leave that for another topic..I don't want to start a debate..
The AT is a very public place, one where we can ALL get away from society and "just be"..I know of several insidenses (sp?) where a thru hiker was reported to be homeless and had the authorities called on him..Now if you were in his shoes, what would you have done, probabluy downright pissed off..
So in my take, unless there is a crime being commetid or someone is injured, leave them alone..Their there in the first place to be left alone...
Graywolf
Daydream Believer
01-05-2010, 08:18
Wow...I am really sorry I asked this question. I did not mean to start such a war over the issue. My ONLY reason for posting was out of concern for this lonely man and not out of concern that he'd ruin the AT experience for anyone. I also only commented on his gear because it did not look appropriate for the weather conditions. Since I was there, it's gotten even colder up in that area.
Maybe I'm just a nosy busybody but the reason I asked about him was to see if anyone knew him and knew that he would be OK. I don't want to get anyone in trouble...certainly not anyone as nice as this guy. Certainly someone stealing or doing drugs in the shelters is a different matter entirely and that does not have to be anyone homeless. I do hope he's OK.