Shelf life of certain foods

[Gramps]

Sorry if this has been posted before, but there are 35 pages on this forum and I don't have time to read through all of them. The question is on foods taken on the trail that are normally refridgerated items, such as cheeses, non-preserved meats, etc. Assuming average temps and such, how long can such things last barring special preps? For example, regular cheddar cheese. I took some on a day hike, but it was in the fridge just prior to starting and by the time I ate it (lunch), it was merely softened. Can you take hard cheeses like this, not eat it for several days, and still be good? Just looking for some insight and wanting some variety (ie, I don't relish the idea of 6 months straight of Ramen or Knorr noodles!)

[Anumber1]

A block of sharp vermont chedder, the kind that comes sealed in wax, will be eaten long before it spoils.
sliced cheese along with pepperoni and wraps makes a good quick, no-cook meal. I saw a guy make a chicken quesadilla with simalar supplies.

[Powell19]

I've never done much cheese packing myself, but I've seen guys carry a block of hard cheese (cheddar, parm, etc.) for 5 days. They just cut off the moldy bits occasionally. Cheese with wax or a rind is probably best. Velveeta will last for freakin' ever in a pack.

[Jester2000]

Anyone who knows me knows I was going to weigh in on this.

Someone once started a thread called "The Perfect Trail Food?", and at first I thought it was about cheese, but then I saw the question mark and knew that it couldn't be.

'Cause there's no question about cheese.

CHEESE! I CAN'T SAY IT ENOUGH!

You may not have the time to search for it on whiteblaze, but you're gonna have the time to eat it on trail. All kinds of cheese! A veritable elemental table of cheeses, eaten in ascending order of hardness! You'll come to love cheese. You won't be able to even think of hiking without it. It'll be just like a great hiking partner. Only unlike your hiking partner, you can cut away any parts of it that have mold!

Now, if you want to know: "Can you take hard cheeses like this, not eat it for several days, and still be good?"

The answer is no, my friend, no. It won't be good. It will be great.

[harryfred]

I have carried cheddar swiss and provolone cheese for 7 days in the summer with out mold, and that's just a block of cheese from Wally World. My favorite is a smoked cheddar I get at a deli I've carried it sliced on the trail 14 days. String cheese and those wax covered Baby Bells I've had them last in my pack at lest 5 days I've had thru hikers tell me they will last a lot longer. Pepperoni and summer sausages I have last over a week in my pack after being opened. Precooked bacon and sausage unopened I have last at least 5 days. I've carried sliced hard salami 7 days.

[Hikes in Rain]

Recall history: cheeses are a way of preserving milk for the future. So yes, cheese (real cheese, made from milk) will be good, as Jester says, a lot longer than it will last. Some cheeses are aged for prolonged periods before they become good to eat, so a few days in the pack isn't going to hurt a thing.

[mweinstone]

how come im so frikkin smart and handsom and i know everything their is to know and cant get layed?!

lets take it from the top. any cheese you can buy. even soft brie, will last a week in hundred degree weather hiking. a peice of regular soft cheddar lasts two. even the least sharp cheddar lasts a month and then some but requires mold removal. witch by the way makes the cheese better. a moldy block of cheddar after the layer is cut away, inside is now firmer and sharper and better and longer lasting. i have carried bacon 12 days in heat. i can carry a steak 5 days in heat. witch came first the fridge or the egg? the fridge according to some of you. cheeses like peccorino and regino last a year in heat. period.as does parm. i can keep a pumpkin in my apt 5 monthes freash. i can keep a ginger root in my pack a week. as can i freash garlic two. open sliced pepporonie? less than a week. stick pepporonie?two weeks. freash bagels? carried them from springer to dammascus and they were still good.

[Wise Old Owl]

Mweistone has hit upon something that is true, spoilage is in days, not hours. Even if you are carrying a steak in your pack and it should be consumed on the first night before the smell draws critters. Even though bacteria is building up in it during the day, if one cooks it properly in the field, you are not going to get sick. Before the days of refrigeration our ancestors knew about controlling spoilage. Salami's, Pepperoni, and other "dry" sausages can last months, If lunch meat wasn't water added as it is today, it too would last more than a week. Its about temperature and moisture. Swiss is so low in moisture, and fat I would guess it would last the longest in the pack. This is why Jerky - "uncooked" meat prepared with an acid, (soy) is dry and lasts a long time. Besides who here wants to carry all that water when it can be recouped in the field?

[Wise Old Owl]

Modern lunchmeat - Ham, Turkey, American Cheese for sandwiches has added oils & water and is very poor quality. It's more quick & convientient and most are willing to stand in supermarket lines for the stuff.

How often have you opened a packaged prepared lunch meat sliced ham or turkey meat a week later from the refigerator and had to throw it out because it didn't keep?

Yet if you went to the back of the store bought a turkey breast or leg of ham and cooked it yourself and sliced it up as its low moisture, and it lasts a month and tastes better? Half the cost?

[Fiddleback]

How did all those wagon train folks survive without refrigeration...and ipods...?:eek:

Heat does not cause spoilage, it merely speeds it up...sometimes. Refrigeration does not prevent spoilage, it merely slows it down...sometimes.

Spoilage results from exposure to bacteria and other pathogens and the vectors that transport them. Keep your food, your hands and your utensils clean and the food will last a long time. And yes, keep it covered and out of the Sun.

Quite a few foods are considered improved by 'spoilage.' Cheese is on the top of the list but aged steaks and some other meats were 'enhanced' by a little sheen of green slime (or so it once was done...). And then there's all those 'traditional' foods found on other continents or even here at home.:-?

Be careful with your foods and don't take extra risk when a long way from help/the trailhead. But most of all, practice good hygiene.

FB

[mweinstone]

more lies! actually, off info. steaks aged dont have a green sheen. where do you get this stuff? a regular any brand any quality steak goes in a pack sealed in its store wrapper for 5 days, comes out smelling better. looking bloodier. tasteing better. why? bht. thats whats on film wrap used for meat. unopened it could be walked with for 7 days in 100 degree hiking. why? because your pack aint a hunit inside. you keep putting your cool water blatter on it. and bht is on the film wrapper. so when you say a steak should be eaten the night after leaving town....your wrong. as far as cooking away bactiria. thats insane and only in a survival situation. im not carrying meat till it rots so i can burn it clean theirby being to eat it weeks from town! duh. im eating it freash and much improved by germ free ageing only 5 days or so later.

[rickb]

Here is a link on how long you can keep mayonnaise at room temperature according to the Cains Foods web site. Summary is in the last paragraph, so scroll down to the bottom if you are in a rush.

I was very surprised.

http://www.cainsfoods.com/Faqs.html

[Jester2000]

Here is a link on how long you can keep mayonnaise at room temperature according to the Cains Foods web site. Summary is in the last paragraph, so scroll down to the bottom if you are in a rush.

I was very surprised.

http://www.cainsfoods.com/Faqs.html

I basically said the same thing months ago (in regards to commercially made mayo) and everyone told me I was wrong.

That thread (if you can find it) is instructive though. For some reason, Americans have been convinced that everything needs to go in a refrigerator lest it go bad. I don't know who came up with this (manufacturers of large refrigerators? The food industry, to encourage you to throw food away and buy more? Who knows?)

There are plenty of foods you can take on the trail that you normally might refrigerate at home simply because you have a refrigerator there. And if you're concerned at all about it, wrap your food bag in your insulation layer when you're hiking in the heat of the day -- the thing that insulates you from the cold is just as good at insulating your food from the heat.

[Doooglas]

I've never done much cheese packing myself, but I've seen guys carry a block of hard cheese (cheddar, parm, etc.) for 5 days. They just cut off the moldy bits occasionally. Cheese with wax or a rind is probably best. Velveeta will last for freakin' ever in a pack.
Velveeta isn't cheese but it might make a mean candle :confused:
Buy hard cheeses and smoke them yourself. NO !
Not in a bong !:p

[Powell19]

Velveeta isn't cheese but it might make a mean candle :confused:
Buy hard cheeses and smoke them yourself. NO !
Not in a bong !:p

Velveeta... is... people! PEOPLE!

[LaurieAnn]

If we are on trips that are more than 7 days I wax the cheese. First I melt parrafin (the kind used for canning) and then I dip small servings of cheese in it. I let the wax harden and dip a few more times. Also cheeses like BabyBell will keep a long time in the pack. Vinegar soaked cheesecloth will also inhibit bacteria growth when wrapped around cheese and ziplocked for shorter trips. I've found shelf stable Brie and Camembert by a company called Danesborg too. It has a very long shelf life.

[Bronk]

Eggs are good for at least 100 days, unrefrigerated, no matter what the expiration date says. I don't store my eggs in the refrigerator...in many countries people would look at you funny for putting your eggs in the fridge.

Expiration dates are mostly BS. Quality and nutritional content will degrade some, but in most cases eating food past the expiration date isn't dangerous. If you look closely a lot of them are listed as "best by" dates and not expiration dates. I know people that can their own food at home and eat food that they canned 10 years ago or more.

If it is well cooked, eating spoiled meat won't kill you...but it will probably taste nasty.

Botulism breaks down under heat, so even if food is tainted it can be eaten if well cooked.

Cheese will have its texture change on hot days and will start to get a bit oily/slimy, but it is still good to eat.

[LaurieAnn]

We've kept eggs for several weeks without refrigeration but beware... store-bought eggs are generally a month old when you buy them and you are much better off to buy from a local farm where the eggs are only a day or two old.

[mweinstone]

it is well known that an apple sliced and left out untill brown is formed on the cut fleash, is not just healthyer, but eating foods without bactirias of these natures are in fact killing my people. sterility actualy undoes all nature has acheived. tolerance of bactiria and use of them to correct our flora in our gut, is critical. none of us burn our inner compost piles hot enough. hence leaky bowel syndrome and myrids of other horrors. to maintain healthy levals of bacterias in the last inches of our intestines where the furnace is,....cannot be more vital to vitalness. dirt is good. leave it.

[Bronk]

it is well known that an apple sliced and left out untill brown is formed on the cut fleash, is not just healthyer, but eating foods without bactirias of these natures are in fact killing my people. sterility actualy undoes all nature has acheived. tolerance of bactiria and use of them to correct our flora in our gut, is critical. none of us burn our inner compost piles hot enough. hence leaky bowel syndrome and myrids of other horrors. to maintain healthy levals of bacterias in the last inches of our intestines where the furnace is,....cannot be more vital to vitalness. dirt is good. leave it.

I eat two tablespoons of raw dirt every day...on Saturdays I cook it.

[mkmangold]

I eat two tablespoons of raw dirt every day...on Saturdays I cook it.
Is that Kosher?

[Fiddleback]

more lies! actually, off info. steaks aged dont have a green sheen. where do you get this stuff? .

Read again... "or so it once was done..." You'll be able to find references to such on the 'net, I'm sure. Of course you can't believe everything you read on the internet...that's how WWI got started.;)

[sarbar]

mweinstone can eat all the brown fruit they desire. I'll keep mine inside this thing called the "peel" until I am ready to eat it. Shocking how mother nature provided a natural shrink wrap to keep your fruit tasty, fresh and clean...when ready to eat you open the fruit up.

Goll-y.

And the reason it turns brown is simple. http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistryfaqs/f/brownapplefaq.htm Thinking food needs to be brown is er...yeah.....

[Wise Old Owl]

How did all those wagon train folks survive without refrigeration...and ipods...?:eek:


Quite a few foods are considered improved by 'spoilage.' Cheese is on the top of the list but aged steaks and some other meats were 'enhanced' by a little sheen of green slime (or so it once was done...). And then there's all those 'traditional' foods found on other continents or even here at home.:-?

Be careful with your foods and don't take extra risk when a long way from help/the trailhead. But most of all, practice good hygiene.

FB


more lies! actually, off info. steaks aged dont have a green sheen. where do you get this stuff? .

http://www.peterluger.com/

Dry aged Steaks are still available in the US from the 1800's thru Peter Luger considered the highest quality Steak House in the United States and is a deep shade of Green on the surface, during prep prior to serving, the mold is removed revealing a deep brown color.

Dry aging occurs while the beef is hanging in a refrigerated cooler, at a specific temperature and humidity, for 10 to 28 days after harvest and prior to cutting. When beef is dry aged two things happen. First, moisture evaporates from the muscle creating a greater concentration of beefy flavor and taste. Secondly, the beef’s natural enzymes break down the fibrous, connective tissue in the muscle, tenderizing it. Most of the tenderizing activity occurs in the the first 10 to 14 days. Some high quality restaurants age their meat for 28 days or more. Increased aging adds to the shrinkage and trim loss due to the drying and surface mold. Up until 20 years ago, dry aged beef was the norm!

[LaurieAnn]

We often buy dry aged beef that is generally dried for 24 to 26 days. It is more tender and just wonderful. Tastes a heck of a lot better than that preservative overloaded, pretty red beef you buy at the supermarket.

[mweinstone]

dark green steaks needing trimming from the 1800's? can i have the chicken? talking to other people these days is wrong. we should have all shut up decades ago and just aged a little till tender. i truly belive the end is near what with green on steak.

[vonfrick]

how come im so frikkin smart and handsom and i know everything their is to know and cant get layed?!

i think this deseves its own thread, perhaps a poll

[Wise Old Owl]

dark green steaks needing trimming from the 1800's? can i have the chicken? talking to other people these days is wrong. we should have all shut up decades ago and just aged a little till tender. i truly belive the end is near what with green on steak.

Hey you asked "where do we get this stuff" and I remembered the source, from a food network tour of the resturant. I looked up the rest of the information on Wiki. The information is correct and a steak with lots of blood will turn rancid faster, which is part of the question that started the thread. This is why there is a "diaper" like object under the meat to soak up the excess blood at the supermarket.:cool:

[Lumberpat73]

Wow all this about aged steaks is too fancy for me. I am wondering if my double cheeseburgers from McDonalds will last. I am thinking yes, but who knows. As I figure it all that fat and digustingness will make excellent trail food that doesn't need to be cooked.

[Wise Old Owl]

Wow all this about aged steaks is too fancy for me. I am wondering if my double cheeseburgers from McDonalds will last. I am thinking yes, but who knows. As I figure it all that fat and digustingness will make excellent trail food that doesn't need to be cooked.


The history of the hamburger is truly a story that has been run through the meat grinder. Some sources (http://whatscookingamerica.net/History/HamburgerHistory.htm) say it began with the Mongols, who stashed raw beef under their saddles as they waged their campaign to conquer the known world. After time spent sandwiched between the asses of man and beast, the beef became tender enough to eat raw—certainly a boon to swift-moving riders not keen to dismount.
It is said, then, that the Mongols, under Kublai Khan later brought it to Russia, which turned it into the dish we know as steak tartare.
Several years later, as global trade picked up, seafarers brought this idea back to the port city of Hamburg, Germany, where the Deutschvolk decided to mold it into a steak shape and add heat to the equation, making something that, outside of Hamburg, was referred to as "Hamburg steak."


Food safety of ground meat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_meat#Food_safety) issues are due to possible bacterial contamination. Undercooked Jack in the Box (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_in_the_Box#Food_safety) hamburgers contaminated with E. coli O157:H7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O157:H7) were responsible for four deaths and the illness of hundreds of people in 1993.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beef_mince#cite_note-5) Minced beef must be cooked to 72°C (160°F) to ensure that all bacterial contamination, whether it be endogenous to the product or contaminated after purchasing by the consumer, is killed. Cooked color does not always indicate the beef has reached the required temperature, as beef can brown before reaching 72°C (160°F). Thus, a thermometer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermometer) should be used to verify the required temperature has been reached. Contrarily, beef exposed to nitric oxides from open flames (wood, charcoal, propane, etc.) during grilling can remain pink after reaching temperature. The color usually is limited to the surface, so can be distinguished from undercooked meat.

[Jester2000]

Wow all this about aged steaks is too fancy for me. I am wondering if my double cheeseburgers from McDonalds will last. I am thinking yes, but who knows. As I figure it all that fat and digustingness will make excellent trail food that doesn't need to be cooked.

For information on how long you can rathole fast food and still eat it, contact Baltimore Jack.

[bronconite]

Great thread with lots of great info. Here is a link on storing food in the tropics without refrigeration. If I remember correctly, it came from the sailing community originally.

http://www2.worldpub.net/images/cw/124-PDF_of_food_charts.pdf

When I was a kid, we always had chickens for egg production. Our chicken house was the grain room in the top of the bank barn. They had run of the property, but they got fed and watered and the nesting boxes were in the chicken house. Sometimes we would find a nest of eggs in a hidden spot around the hay or elsewhere with 20 or more eggs in it. Mom just tested them by checking if they floated. If they did, they got tossed. None of the eggs that sank were ever bad. Most of the time they were all fine. When there were bad ones, they were usually all bad because the nest had been used and abandoned long already.
Oh and the floaters got thrown in the pond and used for BB gun practice.:D

[veteran]

About Eggs

Eggs are typically stored at room temperature in some other countries. Unwashed eggs have a thin natural coating which helps protect against spoilage. Commercial eggs sold in the US, are all power-washed, shortening the room-temperature shelf life... Some people say unwashed eggs (if produced under hygenic, polyculture conditions like you find in small farms) are better because they naturally contain an invisible membrane on the outside of the egg that seals in air and keeps out bacteria. This is what supposedly allows you to keep them unrefrigerated. Washing eggs removes this natural membrane, and commercial producers have to spray the eggs with a substitute sealant. Of course, that artificial sealant isn't as effective as nature's, so here in the US, unrefrigerated eggs spoil very quickly.
All eggs, whether washed or not, have a membrane inside the shell protecting them from organisms which cause spoilage. Make sure the egg doesn't have cracks large enough to allow leakage, which indicates the membrane has been compromised.

You should be able to carry fresh untreated eggs three to four days, even in summer, without a problem. Eggs are fairly durable, and the cardboard egg carton makes a good fire starter.

Fresh Egg Test: Gently drop an egg into a pan of water. It should sink or be completely submerged. If it floats like a cork, discard without breaking.

Storage Treatment #1-A: If you drop eggs in boiling water for a minute, and take them out before they're actually boiled, they'll form a layer just inside the shell which makes them more durable and extends their shelf life. The boil-for-15-seconds treatment is only 50% effective - AFTER 8 MONTHS OF STORAGE- which is longer than the typical Thru-Hike.

Storage Treatment #1-B: Immerse a fresh egg in boiling water, for ONLY FIVE SECONDS.
Ed Garvey, in his The New Appalachian Trail (1997), stated:
"I can't leave the subject of eggs without passing on a method of keeping eggs fresh for incredible lengths of time without refrigeration. Here's how: immerse a fresh egg in boiling water for just five seconds--not five minutes but five seconds. It will then keep for weeks without refrigeration. When I first read of this little trick, it seemed hard to believe so I conducted my own test. On May 31, I put three fresh eggs in boiling water for five seconds. I then put them up in my attic...On July 21, some seven weeks after the five-second boiling, I fried the last one. It too tasted just like a fresh egg, but the yolk appeared almost flat when put into the griddle."
Garvey nearly always carried hard-boiled eggs with him for lunch on his 1990 thru.

Storage Treatment #2: Hard-boiled eggs taste fresh 9 days after they’ve been cooked.

Storage Treatment #3: Vaseline rubbed on the shell reduces the porosity and extends the eggs shelf life. (On one occasion, for over 6 weeks.)

[Jester2000]

Ed Garvey's method (cited by veteran) absolutely works. We called it "flash boiling," and basically you're cooking a very thin layer of the egg, which protects the rest of the egg within.

Cheese.

[Bronk]

About Eggs

On May 31, I put three fresh eggs in boiling water for five seconds. I then put them up in my attic...On July 21, some seven weeks after the five-second boiling, I fried the last one. It too tasted just like a fresh egg, but the yolk appeared almost flat when put into the griddle."
Garvey nearly always carried hard-boiled eggs with him for lunch on his 1990 thru.



I buy my eggs at the grocery store, so presumably they have been pressure washed as described above...I leave them on the kitchen counter, not in the refrigerator. I have eaten eggs that have sat there unrefrigerated for 2 months...typically an 18 pack of eggs will last me about 4 to 6 weeks. There is no need to boil them. I have eaten refrigerated eggs that were over 3 months old.

I've been doing this for about 5 years and only one time have I come across a bad egg...and believe me, you'll know when you crack open a bad one. I wouldn't throw eggs away because of some imaginary expiration date...I'd crack them open first to see if they are any good.

Most other foods can be kept well past the expiration date.