View Full Version : Ice-Cleats - An improved Yaktrak
mak52580
01-04-2010, 18:20
I was curious to see how many of you out there were using these (http://www.ice-cleats.com/store/ice-cleats/icetrekkers-diamond-grip)? I just got a pair in the mail and can't wait to try them out. They are a lot like the Yaktrak Walkers, but MUCH better quality and completely worth the extra $18 or so.
Otherwise, if you haven't heard of them I wanted to put them on your radar as we enter the doldroms of winter.
springerfever
01-04-2010, 20:10
any idea what they weigh ?
SawnieRobertson
01-04-2010, 20:12
They look interesting. YakTrax tend to fall off my boots/shoes in deep snow. I use and am eternally grateful for Stabilizers.--Kinnickinic
mweinstone
01-04-2010, 20:49
sup kinnikinnik!
ive always belived these to be bad. sorry. i am a mountaineer. their is no need for tracktion beyond the great sole of the boot shown . to think their is a gap in equiptment to be filled between crampons and winter vibram soles is wrong in my high opinion. you either wear stiff great winter climbing boots with great sole or your climbing in crampons. then beyond their is front point crampons if your turning and faceing ice directly and climbing with ax.but for just a little extra traction i belive that could be achieved by slowing down and improveing technique, they disrupt the boots geomitry by not haveing been made for much other than giveing a small amount of confidence to the boot wearer. witch may make them walk safer i dont know. but they arent professional. their pussys.lol.
mak52580
01-04-2010, 21:16
any idea what they weigh ?
I just weighed these on my scale and they come in at 12.6 oz for an XL pair (6.3 per foot). By comparison REI lists the Kahtoola's weights at 12.5 oz. The main differences that I see between these two is that there are "mini spikes" all up and down and around the Ice-Cleats, whereas the Kahtoolas have larger spikes throughout the chain. It seems to me, without yet trying them on, that the Ice-Cleats have more surface area "grabbing" the ice on every step.
The other difference is that the Ice-Cleats are attached to the rubber "shoe" with a rivet, whereas the Kahtoolas attach directly to the rubber. Thus, when putting them on and pulling them off, the pulling and stretching action places the stress on the rubber holes of the Kahtoola whereas the Ice-Cleat's tension is absorbed by the rivet, not the rubber. I would think that this would make them last longer... YMMV.
So you're saying a set of these would not be useful on an icy trail?
mak52580
01-04-2010, 21:22
sup kinnikinnik!
ive always belived these to be bad. sorry. i am a mountaineer. their is no need for tracktion beyond the great sole of the boot shown . to think their is a gap in equiptment to be filled between crampons and winter vibram soles is wrong in my high opinion. you either wear stiff great winter climbing boots with great sole or your climbing in crampons. then beyond their is front point crampons if your turning and faceing ice directly and climbing with ax.but for just a little extra traction i belive that could be achieved by slowing down and improveing technique, they disrupt the boots geomitry by not haveing been made for much other than giveing a small amount of confidence to the boot wearer. witch may make them walk safer i dont know. but they arent professional. their pussys.lol.
Sorry.... crampons aren't realistic for us non-mountaineers that are out for a weekend hike. Nor, as an ultralighter, are they ideal since they are heavy, bulky and utterly overkill. Nor do I want or need to wear climbing boots for the 2500' monsters I see on a regular basis in Shenandoah NP. For thin sheens of black ice... where not many "winter soles" work, they are fine.
So I guess for us non-professional, pussies with no technique or confidence that just need to slow down, they are perfect. BTW - this is an Appalachian Trail forum... Highest elevation, 6,643 feet... usually climbed in mid/late Spring by most of us on here.
I just KNOW that Sasquatch MUST have a picture of me with my full 10 point crampons strapped onto my trail runners SOMEWHERE!
It can be done and it works VERY well.
As for these stretch rubber and cable thingies - they LOOK better than YakTracks. From seeing 'Squatch skating around on the Yakkies, I have NO confidence in their safety off the hardtop. Just when you feel relaxed and comfortable - Zoom! On certain types of terrain (ice on sloping ledge, mostly), the false sense of security can be a bigger problem than not having anything at all.
mak52580
01-04-2010, 22:29
I just KNOW that Sasquatch MUST have a picture of me with my full 10 point crampons strapped onto my trail runners SOMEWHERE!
It can be done and it works VERY well.
As for these stretch rubber and cable thingies - they LOOK better than YakTracks. From seeing 'Squatch skating around on the Yakkies, I have NO confidence in their safety off the hardtop. Just when you feel relaxed and comfortable - Zoom! On certain types of terrain (ice on sloping ledge, mostly), the false sense of security can be a bigger problem than not having anything at all.
I think one thing that is forgotten is that NO piece of gear is or should be a substitute for good judgment and knowledge, regardless of gear. I wear these, IN ADDITION to knowing I need to slow down, watch my step and think several steps ahead. Therefore, these WITH my brain should be sufficient for the hiking that I do.
Buy 'em,
Tru 'em,
Do up a review.
The other difference is that the Ice-Cleats are attached to the rubber "shoe" with a rivet, whereas the Kahtoolas attach directly to the rubber. Thus, when putting them on and pulling them off, the pulling and stretching action places the stress on the rubber holes of the Kahtoola whereas the Ice-Cleat's tension is absorbed by the rivet, not the rubber. I would think that this would make them last longer... YMMV.
Hmm, shear on a rivet sounds like a very bad idea.
MedicineMan
01-04-2010, 23:02
looks like yaktrak is trying to catch up with the katoolas...personally i'd go with the microspikes...the microspikes have chains AND serious spikes....not quite a crampon by any means but the microspikes are the ruler of this class of traction aid.
sasquatch2014
01-04-2010, 23:42
I just KNOW that Sasquatch MUST have a picture of me with my full 10 point crampons strapped onto my trail runners SOMEWHERE!
It can be done and it works VERY well.
As for these stretch rubber and cable thingies - they LOOK better than YakTracks. From seeing 'Squatch skating around on the Yakkies, I have NO confidence in their safety off the hardtop. Just when you feel relaxed and comfortable - Zoom! On certain types of terrain (ice on sloping ledge, mostly), the false sense of security can be a bigger problem than not having anything at all.
That was one hell of a trip. I guess my In-laws want me to not widow their daughter they got me the micro spikes for Xmas. The yaks are fine for snow and that is where it ends. They don't have what is needed to bit into ice. As Tinker can attest to they were completely worthless last January in NY after that big ice storm. Tinker was the man with the 10 points. i just know if i used them I would end up falling and some how managing to stab my self in the ass with one of the points. I'll have to look back through the photos to see if i got a good shot of your feet during that trip.
Thanks. That was my experimental trip with the low tops and 10 points. I tried them on at home to verify that they wouldn't slip off, but was surprised that they didn't pinch my feet since the Asics trail runner uppers don't have anywhere near the stiffness of a leather boot.
The only problem I had was climbing the pile of rocks after the shelter and I stepped onto a flat rock which didn't really have enough room for both of my feet and I stepped on my big toe with a crampon tooth - black and blue!
My crampons, made by Camp over 15 years ago, have a flexible steel base like these:
http://www.kahtoola.com/crampons.html.
I can't say what footwear they will work on, but they may be suitable for very light trail runners.
mak52580
01-05-2010, 00:27
Hmm, shear on a rivet sounds like a very bad idea.
Could be... I don't know how much shear would actually occur though. I guess only time will tell.
I have used both the yaktrax and the microspikes. the yaks do not work on ice at all, and wear out in less than 100 miles. The Katoola microspikes are the best all around for ice and snow and I have not had to replace them yet with ofer 400 miles on these. The sizing on teh website is right on of hiking or light shoes also.
I use these, they work, never tried anything else.. cheep and light. They got me out of the grand canyon last january when the whole path was just an ice sheet.
http://www.cmi-gear.com/catalog/essentials/icecleat.asp
http://www.cmi-gear.com/images/products/etc-icecleat.jpg
I use these, they work, never tried anything else.. cheep and light. They got me out of the grand canyon last january when the whole path was just an ice sheet.
http://www.cmi-gear.com/catalog/essentials/icecleat.asp
http://www.cmi-gear.com/images/products/etc-icecleat.jpg
funny, I was getting ready to weigh in on how wonderful the microspikes are -- and they are really great... but, being a gram weenie, i tend to be reluctant to carry them. these ice cleats -- i'd carry them with a smile! anybody else have comparison experience.
The instep type work well as long as you don't forget you have no spikes on your heels and step and slide. That can be just as bad as having no grip at all.
MedicineMan
01-07-2010, 22:24
well katoohla does make a pair light enough to section hike with....
and I dont have time to read this whole thread but never forget what
flying bryan used on his TC...hex head screws into the soul/tread of the boot
when he needed them; he carried the hex head screws along with a small bit drive..total weight maybe 2 ounces! he used to have a gear list up and their weights are listed.
Instep crampons are cheap and light and i used them for years, the problem for me was hitting a rock with just one spike, it torques the ankle in a bad way.
Suluk46 has a Titanium Walking Crampon R2 (http://suluk46.com/RandD%20-%20RD10%20Ti%20Walking%20Crampon%20R2.html) in development.
I know I am interested.
Meanwhile, I will try out the CMI Instep Crampons (http://www.cmi-gear.com/catalog/essentials/icecleat.asp). Thanks.
Surplusman
01-08-2010, 16:18
Yaxtrax suck. I wound up buying a pair of Stabilicers and have never regretted it. I used to have to walk to work and back on a railtrail that was a sheet of ice in large sections in the winter (the W&OD railtrail between Cedar Lane and Vienna, VA). I would rather spend the kind of money I did on the Stabilicers than spend thousands on broken bones and hospital time.
well katoohla does make a pair light enough to section hike with....
You talking about their aluminum crampons? I just bought a set on ebay. I hope to find out how suitable they are sometime this winter.
mak52580
01-08-2010, 16:37
Yaxtrax suck. I wound up buying a pair of Stabilicers and have never regretted it. I used to have to walk to work and back on a railtrail that was a sheet of ice in large sections in the winter (the W&OD railtrail between Cedar Lane and Vienna, VA). I would rather spend the kind of money I did on the Stabilicers than spend thousands on broken bones and hospital time.
Very nice! That's right next to where I live. I hop on the W&OD trail at Cedar Lane.
LIhikers
01-12-2010, 22:40
If you do a lot of hiking on trails coverred with packed snow or ice consider screwing some of the short screws into the bottom of a pair of old hiking boots or shoes. It's like having Stablicers on all the time. You can find them HERE (http://www.magicracing.com/Kold-Kutter-Ice-Racing-Screws--250-pack_p_68-1076.html)
http://www.magicracing.com/assets/images/250%20bag(1).jpg
Those screws may be worth taking in lieu of other traction aids. It'd be lightweight insurance for worse than expected conditions for the ultralight crowd. Of course I've had one of them tell me not to bring a multitool, so getting those screws installed could be an issue for people like that.
LIhikers
01-13-2010, 17:46
leaftye,
You don't want to be trying to be installing and removing those screws out on the trail. I have a pair of old hiking boots I put them into making something like a permanent Stabilicer. I use them on hikes where I know I'll be on packed snow or ice most of the time. I don't know how many times you could screw them in and out of soles that aren't really made for them.
That's all I would need - another piece of gear to worry about batteries - What? Why, my cordless drill, of course!
Now I could bounce my charger ahead and charge it in town, but..............
:D:D
Installing those screws wouldn't exactly be a planned thing. Think of it like an emergency blanket. You hope you don't need it, but it's there if you really do.
I used the Kahtoola MICROspikes in a 12 mile day hike on the Blue Ridge Parkway after the Christmas Day ice storm and averaged 3 mph with no slips or missteps on a solid sheet of ice for the entire day hike. They are light easy to slip on and off. A great addition to your gear if you are out in these conditions.
http://www.rei.com/product/774966
7731
What I have found to be particularly treacherous on the Fundy Footpath is downslopes, even when they are not all that steep. When they are both rocky and icy, and especially when they go on a long distance so its hard to be on your toes all the time. When there is a light dusting of snow on top its even harder to judge what you are up against. Metal cleats can be great on ice and hard snow, but can be very bad on rock. I think there is alot to be said for sticking with a very aggressive soft rubber, like a good trail runner or boot with a similar tread. Carrying less weight is important also. Some sort of crampon for real climbing or decent situations, but I don't have any experience in that department. Still, I might bring something like the yaktrax or stabilicers and give them a try. I've tried using machine screws, but they were way to slippery on rock.
I've used the type that look like small springs hooked together, and lost one almost immediately. They do seem to work okay, but don't seem to stay on very well, at least not for me.
Try the www.icetrekkers.com (http://www.icetrekkers.com) Diamond Grips.
Walk normal on all ice/ snow and rock.
No points to teeter/ twist on. Just great traction.
Fit correctly, they stay on.
$39.95 weigh -6 oz. pair. (Large)
These are the best I have found short of needing serious crampons for ice climbing.
You can walk and run in these.
Snowleopard
03-31-2010, 12:20
Someone recently fell 1500' into King's Ravine while hiking with microspikes on the AT near Mt. Adams, NH (and was not seriously hurt). From trip reports from the same day, crampons and an ice axe were really needed there. There were also a couple of other 200' falls there that day by people not wearing crampons. http://www.viewsfromthetop.com/forums/showpost.php?p=314768&postcount=1
http://www.viewsfromthetop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35360
http://www.courier-littletonnh.com/Articles-c-2010-03-30-150874.113119_AMC_winter_caretaker_survives_1500fo ot_slide_into_King_Ravine.html
I've used Kahtoola Microspikes, Stabilicers, instep crampons, and real crampons. Snowshoes usually have some sort of built in claw and they are sometimes in places where the Microspikes, etc., don't cut it. Hiking a relatively flat icy trail, any of the less-than-crampon traction will keep you from falling on your behind.
When the terrain is steeper or a fall will hurt you badly, use real crampons, especially on hard ice. Don't carry an ice axe without training in how to use it.