Cold feet - literally!

[HockeyGirl]

Hi All

I am looking for some hints/tips and suggestions from hikers who sleep REALLY cold or who have serious problems with cold feet (in the literal sense).
I'm testing my gear for an AT thru hike with a early March start date and am taking advantage of the cold nights to see how I'd cope - not well so far!

My main problem is my feet which are cold at all times anyway (really bad circulation) but seem to ache till they hurt when I camp out in cold weather.
I'm testing my gear in temps of -5C at the moment and this is what I'm using all at once that keeps me moderatly warm:

Thermarest Ridge Rest pad (compressed foam)
Thermarest Womens Prolite Plus (self inflating)
Mountain Hardwear Lamina 20 sleeping bag
Hot water bottle ( directly on my feet)
Plus wearing top and bottom thermals with jogging bottoms, hoodie and fleece beanie. 2 pairs of socks (liners and medium weight hiking socks)

I did feel that if I had added my down jacket to the ensemble I probably would have felt comfortable enough.

My questions are these:

1) Would carrying the extra foam pad and a standard weight water bottle be excessive to start my hike with in terms of weight?

2) Does anyone know of any lightweight water bottles or hydration systems that take hot water and would stay warm most of the night? (this really helped in my opinion)
The only one I've really seen is 'Ortlieb Waterbags' and they only take 60 degree water not boiling - anyone used these?

3) Any one use any other methods to keep feet warm?

I know it sounds sissy but my feet really do ache and it's starting to put me off the idea camping out if I can't stay warm and comfortable enough - I don't need 5 star, just don't need frostbite either! :)

Thank for any help!

[ChinMusic]

3) Any one use any other methods to keep feet warm?

Down booties for camp.

These are real warm and only 6 ounces: http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/booties/chugach.htm

I take the Teanaway slippers and love em but you sound like you need something taller on the ankle.

[nox]

you can try draping your jacket over your feet, just make sure you aren't compressing the bag otherwise it's counteractive.

[partinj]

You can buy foot warmers at walmart or kmanrt campmor they are just like sleeping bag warmers only smaller here is a picture from campmor.

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/OPACTE%7E1.STM/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg

:sun

[partinj]

Ok let try this again the picture did not ework on the first post

7695

[Elder]

You should also be sure the socks for sleeping, or booties, etc, are really loose.
No constrictions from the thermals at ankles either! or legs.
You want to maximize circulation..
I had veins from my legs used as bypass and my feet chill easily..
compression stufff works when you are moving, but for camp, rest and sleep loose is best!

[FritztheCat]

I had this exact same problem a few months ago. I posted the question here on WB and got what I considered to be an odd recommendation. The recommendation was to put plastic bags (the kind you find at any grocery store) over my feet and then put loose fitting socks over them.

I figured, what the heck! Plastic bags are free and weigh nothing. I already carried a pair of loose fitting socks anyway so I gave it a shot.

It worked!!

I slept nice and warm and most importantly, my feet stayed warm all night. I was shocked! I woke up the next morning and removed the socks and then the bags to find my feet dripping wet. I dried them off, put on my hiking socks and then boots and went hiking after a nice, restful sleep - free of waking up constantly with my feet freezing.

The temps that night got down to the high teens/low 20's so maybe this will work for you.

[Blissful]

I would also get checked by an MD to see what can be done about improving circulation - go to one who will understand what you want to do with hiking.

[Monkeyboy]

I suffer from Sjogren's, which has left my hands and feet extremely cold.

Instead of draping jacket over your feet, stuff it down inside your pack, making a pocket for your feet to slide into. That way, it moves with you when you roll around.

Works like a charm.

[HockeyGirl]

Thanks everyone, some good ideas already - I shall give some of them a go.

Quick follow on - the foot warmers you can buy, are they single use only or can you reuse?

[ChinMusic]

Quick follow on - the foot warmers you can buy, are they single use only or can you reuse?
Most are single-use but there are some that can be reboiled with at clicker thing to activate. The multi-use ones would take a LOT of fuel over time and may tend to activate on their own.

[Jester2000]

I had this exact same problem a few months ago. I posted the question here on WB and got what I considered to be an odd recommendation. . .

In my experience there are a lot of whiteblaze members that have odd notions that actually work.

The one problem with a VB as recommended in that idea is the non-breathability (thus the wet feet, which would make me uncomfortable). But, hey, whatever works, right?

Personally, if I had circulation issues, I'd consider a woman's bag (which has more insulation in the footbed), booties, and I wouldn't worry about the weight of carrying a nalgene to use as a hot water bottle.

[jrwiesz]

In my experience there are a lot of whiteblaze members that have odd notions that actually work.

The one problem with a VB as recommended in that idea is the non-breathability (thus the wet feet, which would make me uncomfortable). But, hey, whatever works, right?

Personally, if I had circulation issues, I'd consider a woman's bag (which has more insulation in the footbed), booties, and I wouldn't worry about the weight of carrying a nalgene to use as a hot water bottle.

Perhaps your feet have excessive sweating problem? Have you tried an anti-perspirant on your feet?

Are you using dry socks/change of socks prior to sleep?

Are you eating a meal just prior to sleep, that helps kick in the metabolism for a warmer nights rest.

Good luck with your search for the solution.:sun

[jrwiesz]

Perhaps your feet have excessive sweating problem? Have you tried an anti-perspirant on your feet?

Are you using dry socks/change of socks prior to sleep?

Are you eating a meal just prior to sleep, that helps kick in the metabolism for a warmer nights rest.

Good luck with your search for the solution.:sun

PS-I forgot to mention.

Take off your hockey skates prior to sleep. They are too constrictive.:D

[The Solemates]

wear fleece socks over your other socks
put your feet into your sleeping bag stuff sack, then into your rainpants, then into your rain jacket

dual use so you dont have to carry extra stuff and it usually works for me

[Jester2000]

Perhaps your feet have excessive sweating problem? Have you tried an anti-perspirant on your feet?

I wasn't talking about regular sweating, I was talking about what happens if you use a vapor barrier, as recommended by FritztheCat. I don't do that because I don't like having wet feet, plus the bags don't fit over the hockey skates


Take off your hockey skates prior to sleep. They are too constrictive.:D

Well, I got a sleeping bag specially designed with an extra-large footbed, so I'm not going to waste that money by not wearing the skates. That would be dumb.

[ChinMusic]

put your feet into your sleeping bag stuff sack, then into your rainpants, then into your rain jacket

dual use so you dont have to carry extra stuff and it usually works for me
But, but, that's my pillow.......

[The Solemates]

But, but, that's my pillow.......

true dat :)

use your pack instead.

two nights ago i used my water bottle as my pillow :eek:

[Stir Fry]

Down booties for camp.

These are real warm and only 6 ounces: http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/booties/chugach.htm

I take the Teanaway slippers and love em but you sound like you need something taller on the ankle.
You may find that they are to hot, you will fing nothing wormer then down booties. A friend of mine got these for his wife, she has some kind of problem and her feet were so cold all the time that she cryed. He got these and after a week I had to push him away he was trying to kiss me he was so happy.

[Mongoose2]

I too have cold feet and love my down booties. Check out the Sierra Designs down booties at Campmor.com $39

[Reid]

If you take one foot and grab the back of your other foot by the tendon with your big toe and it's neighbor it will warm that foot up. Takes a while but it does work. You would have to do that with the other foot as well. I tend to have cold feet too.

[HockeyGirl]

Thanks for all the suggestions - have now opted to buy a pair of down booties in exchange for the hockey skates! (never knew they existed, but hey, here in the UK we hardly ever see snow!)

Have gone with Sierra Designs and hope they'll arrive in a couple weeks for testing.
Thanks for the help!:)

[skinewmexico]

A really pricy way to solve the problem is to get a WM bag, with 2 oz of down overstuffed in the footbox.

[Mags]

I see you are wearing a hat...have you tried wearing a light balaclava too (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balaclava_%28clothing%29)? For a little extra weight, you get a a very versatile piece of gear that adds a LOT of warmth for the weight..even in the bag. As the Inuits say "If your feet are cold, throw on a hat"..in this case, an extra hat. :)

I use something similar to this:
http://www.sentrytactical.com/gi-plus-polypropylene-balaclava.aspx

[Jester2000]

I see you are wearing a hat...have you tried wearing a light balaclava too (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balaclava_%28clothing%29)? For a little extra weight, you get a a very versatile piece of gear that adds a LOT of warmth for the weight..even in the bag. As the Inuits say "If your feet are cold, throw on a hat"..in this case, an extra hat. :)

I use something similar to this:
http://www.sentrytactical.com/gi-plus-polypropylene-balaclava.aspx

This is absolutely true, in my experience. All of my friends and I had balaclavas on the PCT, and usually wore them at night in the desert, along with a fleece hat. It's amazing how much of a difference it can make.

I highly recommend a balaclava, and I also highly recommend referring to it as a "baclava" and talking about how you wear greek pastry on your head.

[Tinker]

I had this exact same problem a few months ago. I posted the question here on WB and got what I considered to be an odd recommendation. The recommendation was to put plastic bags (the kind you find at any grocery store) over my feet and then put loose fitting socks over them.

I figured, what the heck! Plastic bags are free and weigh nothing. I already carried a pair of loose fitting socks anyway so I gave it a shot.

It worked!!

I slept nice and warm and most importantly, my feet stayed warm all night. I was shocked! I woke up the next morning and removed the socks and then the bags to find my feet dripping wet. I dried them off, put on my hiking socks and then boots and went hiking after a nice, restful sleep - free of waking up constantly with my feet freezing.

The temps that night got down to the high teens/low 20's so maybe this will work for you.

If you do this, plus heat up some water in a leakproof bottle (I like the metal ones) and put it down by your feet, you should have no problem at all. Putting the bottle in a spare sock will make it less annoying when your feet or ankles touch it. You can also use the bottle trick to dry damp socks on a damp night (slide the bottle into a sock and slide the second sock over that. The hot water in the bottle will dry - or mostly dry - the socks overnight).

[takethisbread]

I am a believer in camp shoes. I just started using them and I love them. I think it's good to get out of your boots quick, and have something to walk around camp with and go the bathroom with and not have to put on your boots to leave the shelter.

I am looking for a slip on camp boot, with wool like insulation, lightweight, almost like an UGGS boot, sans the price and weight.

[springerfever]

I just got these for Christmas. Haven't done any hiking yet to where I could take them along, but they are super warm and light. The FF design allows you to use just the down insert booties for in your bag, keeping it clean or pair the inserts up with the outer if you need to do some 'chores'.

Great design and impeccable workmanship/fabrics.


http://www.featheredfriends.com/Picasso/Bed.Acc/Down%20Booties.html

[Trisha]

I love my Minnetonka Moccasins! Soft sole, suede Kiltys seem to last forever, and keep my feet warm all winter. Not sure which soles you would need on trips to the bushes. Sheepskin lining is overkill for me, but might work for you.

[Lyle]

Replace the tight, circulation constricting socks with down booties. Bet your problem will be solved, or at least, greatly alleviated.

[Dogwood]

Down Booties Down Booties Down Booties :)

Got mine from GooseFeet and like them already.

[Trailweaver]

There are also socks made to keep feet warm that have heating coils that run on small batteries - hunters use them a lot. You may want to check those out at a hunting supply store. I would think the down booties would work, but if not, check the battery-operated socks.

[apudreamer]

I would stay away from the hand/foot warmers for sleeping. They can get really hot, sometimes uncomfortably so. The packaging also says that they are not good for diabetics or those with circulation problems. Once again, down booties are delightful.

[Egads]

I'm amazed how big a difference vapor barriers make while hiking in snow. Even my mesh trail runners are warm:sun

[Frosty]

2) Does anyone know of any lightweight water bottles or hydration systems that take hot water and would stay warm most of the night? (this really helped in my opinion)
When winter camping, I used to boil water at night and fill two 1-quart nalgene bottles. They held boiling water just fine. I put them in socks because they were too hot next to my skin. I put one down below my feet and the other nestled against my midriff.

I don't carry nalgenes anymore - too heavy. When I know it is going to be cold (and I did this in Georgia/NC early one March) I carried a pair of sealskinz. Lightweight
http://www.sealskinz.com/
I only used them at night, and they kept my feet toasty.

I do not have good circulation, I guess, or maybe it is my height, but whatever the reason, my feet are the coldest part of me at night. Well, my nose, too.

There isn't anything wrong with being a little chilly at night. The AT is in the mountains, after all, but if your feet ache then you need to do something. I would carry a pair of toe warmers for emergency really cold nights. They are sticky and stick to the bottom of your socks. they are one use only.
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___99836

[Wise Old Owl]

I had this exact same problem a few months ago. I posted the question here on WB and got what I considered to be an odd recommendation. The recommendation was to put plastic bags (the kind you find at any grocery store) over my feet and then put loose fitting socks over them.

I figured, what the heck! Plastic bags are free and weigh nothing. I already carried a pair of loose fitting socks anyway so I gave it a shot.

It worked!!

I slept nice and warm and most importantly, my feet stayed warm all night. I was shocked! I woke up the next morning and removed the socks and then the bags to find my feet dripping wet. I dried them off, put on my hiking socks and then boots and went hiking after a nice, restful sleep - free of waking up constantly with my feet freezing.

The temps that night got down to the high teens/low 20's so maybe this will work for you.


I like your post Fritz and a water bottle to boot...

[Bati]

It sounds like you're wearing too many layers. You need to change your clothes before you get in your bag, and again before you get up. You might not notice it, but you've been sweating in them and the moisture won't help you stay warm. The only piece of clothing I didn't change in the cold weather was my balaclava, since I only carried one expedition-weight one.

Try putting your feet into the top of your thermals. They won't be constricted that way and you might not need to wear socks at all. Never wear more than one pair of socks to bed- if you buy the fleece ones, change into them, don't put them over another pair of socks.

I've never bothered with warming up a water bottle or chemical warmers; it simply takes too much fuel and that adds significantly to your pack weight.

You may find you're warmer if you eat dinner in the middle of the day and have a cold supper when you make camp. Or even better, dine a mile or so before you make camp. You'll be much warmer when you go to sleep that way. In the hopes of slowing my weight loss while on the AT, I tried adding extra olive oil to my evening meal, or even drinking it straight (which is totally disgusting) right before bed. It helped me sleep through the cold nights without waking up cold. Make sure you're well-hydrated as it helps to prevent both hypothermia and frostbite.

I used plastic bags during the day and while walking about a snowy camp at night, but only over a pair of socks, not under. And yes, my feet were wet. The other trick is to not change into frozen boots until just before you start hiking. That way you'll thaw them out faster and lessen the misery.

[Tinker]

Hi All

I am looking for some hints/tips and suggestions from hikers who sleep REALLY cold or who have serious problems with cold feet (in the literal sense).
I'm testing my gear for an AT thru hike with a early March start date and am taking advantage of the cold nights to see how I'd cope - not well so far!

My main problem is my feet which are cold at all times anyway (really bad circulation) but seem to ache till they hurt when I camp out in cold weather.
I'm testing my gear in temps of -5C at the moment and this is what I'm using all at once that keeps me moderatly warm:

Thermarest Ridge Rest pad (compressed foam)
Thermarest Womens Prolite Plus (self inflating)
Mountain Hardwear Lamina 20 sleeping bag
Hot water bottle ( directly on my feet)
Plus wearing top and bottom thermals with jogging bottoms, hoodie and fleece beanie. 2 pairs of socks (liners and medium weight hiking socks)

I did feel that if I had added my down jacket to the ensemble I probably would have felt comfortable enough.

My questions are these:

1) Would carrying the extra foam pad and a standard weight water bottle be excessive to start my hike with in terms of weight?

2) Does anyone know of any lightweight water bottles or hydration systems that take hot water and would stay warm most of the night? (this really helped in my opinion)
The only one I've really seen is 'Ortlieb Waterbags' and they only take 60 degree water not boiling - anyone used these?

3) Any one use any other methods to keep feet warm?

I know it sounds sissy but my feet really do ache and it's starting to put me off the idea camping out if I can't stay warm and comfortable enough - I don't need 5 star, just don't need frostbite either! :)

Thank for any help!
I haven't read any other posts, so this might have been covered.
1) You should not need another pad for insulation. For comfort, maybe, depending on how well you sleep on a hard pad. I would recommend an inflatable pad (non-insulated) with closed cell foam on top for the most flexible combination: closed cell on top for soft insulation, underneath for warm weather when you don't want to be sleeping on a hot pad (use ccf pad for puncture protection when needed). The foam pad could always be used in case of failure of the air mat (that's why I don't recommend inflatable pads with insulation in them - lose the air and you also lose your insulation). Foam pads like Thermarest (non neo-) retain a small amount of insulation when flat, but not much.
2) There are foam water bottle carriers for cold weather which will keep boiling water very warm all night. They can be strapped to your pack's waistbelt and removed for use in your sleeping bag. I use an old 35mm padded lens cover and a 40 oz. Kleen Canteen which I heat by the fire before retiring for the night. I slip it inside the lens case and it stays hot all night. Water for breakfast boils all that much faster, saving fuel (I also sleep with my alcohol, which helps lower my cooking times for the morning even further).
3) Putting your stocking feet into a plastic bag (any old bag will do) before getting into your sleeping bag will keep them much warmer. They may be a bit damp when you get up, but they will be warmer all night, guaranteed. I've done this, too (when I didn't heat the water bottle).

[WILLIAM HAYES]

down booties and 1000mg of arginine taken at nite

[Tinker]

I am a believer in camp shoes. I just started using them and I love them. I think it's good to get out of your boots quick, and have something to walk around camp with and go the bathroom with and not have to put on your boots to leave the shelter.

I am looking for a slip on camp boot, with wool like insulation, lightweight, almost like an UGGS boot, sans the price and weight.
I've seen slippers with tough molded rubber soles at Walmart which might do the trick.

[Live the Journey]

I hear where you're coming from...I've got a circulatory condition called Raynauds, which basically means I've got very poor circulation in the hands, feet, nose, ears, etc. which makes me much more prone to cold-related injuries.
On my hike last year, I was really worried about how I'd sleep with my condition...but surprisingly, my condition was much less problematic on the trail, I think due largely to the increased bloodflow all day long from hiking with a pack on. Whatever the reason, it wasn't as bad as my "test runs" of camping in my backyard.

Regardless, some things I might suggest...
*Avoid putting heat sources directly on your feet at night...hot water bottles, warmers, etc. will most assuredly make your feet sweat some, which will make them cold once the heat source starts to lose warmth.
*Get a warmer bag...I know 20* is very warm, but when you're looking forward to crawling into your warm bag at night and it's not living up to it's expectations, you may need to look into something else...I used a 15* bag + a 40* bag until I was to Gatlinburg, TN. I know it sounds crazy, but there's no use fighting it...if you're not sleeping warm enough in your back yard, your not going to be warm enough in GA.
*When it's really cold, my feet actually stay warmer without socks on at all...reason being, I know that I'm going to have my down jacket on and all my tricks to stay warm enough...which means at some point durning the night I'm going to sweat at least a little (even if I don't feel warm) and as soon as my feet sweat in my socks, those socks are just going to freeze me out.

These things worked for me on my hike....I hope they help you too!

[climber2377]

silver emergency blankets are like 3 bucks. wrap the bottom of you sleeping bag in one to help insulate your feet. its a lot cheaper than down booties.