View Full Version : How to be successful: the lessons from a failure
Hi. If you have any questions about this rambling mess, PM me.
I'm Bobby. (Hungry) (Data) (Tech Support) (Blowjob Charlie) (Batman)
Here with a public service announcement for all the fresh meat. I made a through hike attempt last year, making it 800 miles before I ran out of money and got Giardia. I'd like to give back to the community here a bit, because thanks to the hours and hours and hours of reading this forum, when I got to (steals) neal's gap, the resident gear "experts" told me they wouldn't change a thing about my pack...
Here's a few tips for surviving comfortably: For those of you who actually read this far, and didn't just scroll down to the next bit of text that's in bold, see it says "go ultralight" and start spamming "pussy" into the reply box, include the word "bird" in your post to be taken seriously.
GO ULTRALIGHT. SERIOUSLY. With proper planning and thought, your pack can be so light you can pack beers, steaks, and all the baby wipes your ass can handle... and you won't be too tired by the time you get to camp to wash your pot.
Here's the do's and don't
DON'T bring a water filter.
The first few months are so cold, diseases are EXTREMELY rare, and cases of Giardia and Crytpo are as common for people who treat as those who don't. I didn't treat for 2/12 months before I got hiker butt.
DO use
Polar Pure (one bottle lasts an entire through hike, weights nothing compared to a filter)
OR
Aqua Mira (light, more expensive, convenient)
DON'T
Carry a huge, heavy journal.
DO
Carry a few sheets of paper, or a very light journal, or use something like an iphone. (airplane mode) (mini g2 pens rule)
DON'T
buy a five pound tent, a two pound sleeping pad, and a four pound synthetic sleeping bag
Shelter:
DO
Get a hammock with an underquilt
http://www.warbonnetoutdoors.net/
hennesseyhammocks.com (http://hennesseyhammocks.com/) (are on super-super-sale at trail days (which you are ****ing going to) so bring extra cash)
jacksrbetter.com (http://jacksrbetter.com/) (quality underquilts)
OR
Get a tarptent and a peice of tyvek
http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=48 this tarptent has a mesh skirt so when you put your tyvek over it, bugs don't get in.
OR
(heaviest I'd ever go)
get an MSR Hubba
Sleeping bags:
DO
15 degrees/down 3 season bag (think 800 fill, seriously. no, don't look at the prices. find the bag you want then use froogle to find the price you want, I got my bag from an ebay store for 1/2 off what REI wanted)
super-cheap-o synthetic/down summer bag (me and another girl found our summer bags at REI for like 30 bucks. her's had more than 50 bucks worth of down in it)
Sleeping pads
DO: if you get a backpack with nice padding (think granite gear vapor trail) you can use it as the last 1/3 of your pad. I did this at first, and was very comfortable. z-rests are nice, but not super comfortable. thermarests are great to sleep on, but are heavy. I'd stick to hammocking if you want luxury.
packs: the easiest thing to get overweight on because they all essentially do the exact same thing. I currently use an exos 46. I love the **** out of it.
Vapor Trail
http://www.google.com/products?q=vapor+trail&hl=en&aq=f
Osprey Exos
http://www.google.com/products?oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&gfns=1&q=osprey%20exos&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wf
shoes
don't
wear boots
don't
wear leather.
do
get yourself a nice pair of trail runners. get some goretex ones. spend an hour in the store, painstakingly deliberating over which pair to buy. this is not optional
don't:
bring a political hardcover.
do:
bring that book you loved in high school
if your pack and pants fit right, you don't need a belt.
don't bring a wallet.
don't bring a dog unless you don't want to stay in hotels/hostels. or go into most bars. or go into most shopping centers. or restaurants. don't bring an old dog, or a (too) young one.
don't bring a huge knife
do bring a knife that cuts a piece of a cheese and the occasional piece of string. find the SMALLLLLEST pocket knife in your local walmart, or spend 20 on an ultralight knife.
don't
bring a huge flashlight or headlamp.
do
buy these
http://dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1100 step 1: steal the batteries out of five of them and leave the flashlights at home. step 2: carry the other four with you and give them to other newbies the first week. step 3: change batteries using a knife for a screw driver. step 4: fornicate and financiate.
do
read the complete walker by colin fletcher (very instructional)
read awol on the appalachian trail (instructional and entertaining)
read into the wild (very entertaiing)
don't
read a walk in the woods for anything but comedy
don't
use a gas stove
do
use an alchohol stove made from two beer cans, some chicken wire, and tin foil. mine works GREAT. I NEVER had a problem. http://zenstoves.net/ is a great site with all kinds of stoves. follow the instructions and don't try to make one in 5 minutes and you'll be set. alchohol was never hard to find. you can use HEET too.
in months, I never saw someone use a compass and have a clue what they were doing. anyone who was smart enough to use one already knew where the hell they were. you don't need one. leave it home. I have a compass on my watch, if you bring one, bring a cheap one so you can throw it away later when you are sick of carrying it.
food for thought:
you can make tyvek stuff sacks that weight nothing from UPS/FedEx/USPS mail bags. double them up with a rubber band for journals, books, electronics, and hygene stuff. evac bags are great for clothes and sleeping bags, and always get a HUGE stuff sack for food so you can wiggle the food into the empty space in your pack. (don't seal it tight unless it gets hairy)
my pack weighed 16 pounds without food and water at it's heaviest, and this included a baseball bat, a cell phone, and a guitar. I had never done more than car-family camping (and even that at an EXTREME minimum) my whole life. I am a 23 year old male. I live and tested all my gear in the mountains of south Florida :P
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigation?q=backpacker+guitar
</span>
and NO SNIVELING.
Pacific Tortuga
01-08-2010, 21:48
I think THIS belongs on the "Annoying Stuff " thread.
I agree with many of "do and do not's" just think it, doesn't work for some.
Thank's for your tip's.
ShelterLeopard
01-08-2010, 21:53
Already got most of this going- result of about 6 shakedown hikes! Are you trying again?
ShelterLeopard
01-08-2010, 21:56
And what I don't do (from your list) are things that I don't intend to change now, and if I have a problem, I can always mail stuff back or change my ways. HYOH, but advice is appreciated!
SGT Rock
01-08-2010, 21:58
There are some good tips in there.
But most people have to learn for themselves. Often the hard way.
There are some good tips in there.
But most people have to learn for themselves. Often the hard way.
As a friend once told me "Experience is a great teacher. The tuition is high, though" :)
More than half of the dos and donts I figured out as I was getting into hiking. But eventually found all but two to be true for me.
1. The OP is a 24 year old so his pad advice applies to most of the under 30's. You spend nearly half your time laying down so be comfortable. I enjoy my Prolite 4 even at 2 pounds. Tried the others and was miserable.
2. Hip belts serve a purpose for a pack over 12ish pounds especially if their is some form of frame to distribute the load to your hips and the belt is a great place for pockets.
Yes, the over thirties can read more than a tweat.
Anumber1
01-09-2010, 00:43
Hey Bobbyw I posted a picture of us drinking beers in Hampton TN. All of the advice you just gave is Dead-On-Balls accurate, I agree 100% with what you are saying here.
I find it pretty comical that someone who got giardia, which forced him off the trail, is telling people that they shouldn't carry a water filter and they don't need to treat their water when its cold outside.
One thing they don't tell you about water filters is that you should carry the outgoing tube in a ziplock bag...if you don't you are contaminating it with dirty water every time you put it away, and you defeat the purpose of filtering to begin with.
Can someone who has used a tarptent comment on water leakage? While the idea of such a lightweight "tent" is very appealing, a "normal" tent has a bathtub floor...seems to me like a tarptent and tyvek would be susceptible to water leakage (ie puddles on the floor) in a heavy rain unless it were set up in an ideal place.
If you are starting early March (or earlier) I'd still wear boots due to the likelihood of encountering some snow. I traded my boots for trail runners when I got to Damascus.
I'd also suggest to everyone that they budget a few hundred dollars for equipment on their hike...the nature of the beast is that you're going to have to replace shoes, and as you meet other hikers and compare gear you're going to want to make a few changes along the way...have the money ready to do it. One of the straps on my pack almost ripped completely off coming into Hot Springs, and if I hadn't been lucky enough to find somebody with a sewing machine I'd have had to buy a new pack.
You'll find plenty of books in shelters. I wouldn't bring one with me again...I carried a book from Springer all the way to Erwin before I finally got around to reading it. You won't have time to read in the beginning...you'll be too busy adjusting to your new lifestyle. Right about the time you start having time to read, you'll start seeing books in the shelters.
I totally disagree about the headlamp...those keychain lights don't put out anywhere near enough light to do much more than unlock your car or your front door. If you ever want to do any night hiking you'll want to have a headlamp. If you want to read a book after dark you'll need a headlamp.
To me this is also a safety issue...I didn't start my hike with a headlamp...I had one of those mini mag lights the size of a pen. I ended up hiking in the dark to get to Gooch Mountain shelter and ran out of batteries about a mile before I got there...and the night was pitch black.
I bought a headlamp when I got to Neels Gap...it was probably the best $40 I spent on my hike, and its one of the few pieces of equipment that I have from my hike that is still fully functional...pack, tent, sleeping bag, clothing, all long since worn out, but I'd estimate over 5,000 hours of use on the headlamp and all I've ever done is change the batteries. I got the zipka, and expected the thin string to break long ago, but after 7 years of almost daily use (I use it at home as a reading lamp) it is still going strong.
For a wallet I bought a change purse that hung around my neck at EMS...I wrapped cash around my ID card and debit card and put it in a ziplock inside...I never took it off. The last thing I was going to lose was my money...I usually also kept my headlamp and a lighter in there...I figured if I ever got separated from my pack I had some basic necessities.
If you have shorts and pants with an elastic waste band or drawstrings, you don't need a belt...otherwise, I find it hard to believe anybody's pants would fit right after walking 2200 miles.
Sleeping pad...carry a comfortable one...
I think most people are going to strike a compromise between going heavy and ultralight...I made a habit of going through my pack periodically and getting rid of things I wasn't using...but there were some things I just wasn't going to part with even though I knew they were too heavy or they weren't used often enough to justify them.
Tuckahoe
01-09-2010, 10:12
meh... I will give it a 5 out of 10.
Regarding knives, they should be seen as a tool that your life may depend on. You should have a knife that is substantial and strong enough to do a job reliably. The knife is the last thing anyone should ever skimp or go lightweight on.
I also think that a walking compass is necessary, but then again I think that maps are necessary as well. Along with good map skills.
mister krabs
01-09-2010, 10:50
meh... I will give it a 5 out of 10.
Regarding knives, they should be seen as a tool that your life may depend on. You should have a knife that is substantial and strong enough to do a job reliably. The knife is the last thing anyone should ever skimp or go lightweight on.
Joyce chen handy little knife, 4 inches, big enough to split kindling, one ounce, 7$. Available at publix. Hat tip to skidsteer.
Knives are important, especially when your trying to build a fire in a dirty paint can.
rjridgely
01-09-2010, 14:56
37 years of experience with very very few "failures" have tought my this:
My overall pack weight is proportional to my body weight with plenty of room for more.
I personally count pounds not ounces.
I always wear boots only....from heavy mountaineering (Jan/Feb) to heavy leather (Mar/Apr/May) to Med Leather (rest of the time).
I ALWAYS FILTER WATER AND HAVE NEVER EVER BEEN SICK.
I always have room for some beers and or whiskey.
I don't think MRE's are awful or heavy.
In the winter I only will use a fuel stove (Dragonfly) and later on maybe a canister stove (Superfly).
I personally find alcohol stoves useless for my experiences.
As of right now, for a January 21st start and the current weather conditions and forcasts, my starting pack weight, with food and water is approx:
44 lbs.
WoW!:eek:
A 23yr. old, 800 mile know it all.:rolleyes:
This should be moved to the hiking humor.:-?
Not that you can't learn something in 800 miles, but to assume your way is THE way (regardless of experience) is beyond me.:(
Learning what works for you is the best way. :-? Advice can be helpful, but someone doing it THEIR way doesn't make it the wrong way OR the hard way. ;)
As for your steals gap and other snide comments... have you considered the fact that they are so good at what they do, they could spot a (30 mile) know-it-all (with an attitude, read: sniveler) within seconds, and spent as little time as possible with them sharing their advice????:)
Funny how often folks like yourself rarely reach their goal.:rolleyes:
max patch
01-09-2010, 16:43
Why should anyone take advice on how to do a thru from a "statistic?"
Well BobbyW, I guess I'll start saying that this reply is from an Old Bird. (you said I had to use the word "bird" in my reply.)
Some of your advise is good and some is not that good. It comes from someone who is young, 23 years old, and has not had a sucessfull thru-hike under his belt. If you had written this post after you thru-hiked and spent 6 months on the trail I bet it would be somewhat different.
My prospective comes from having had a sucessfull thru-hike and being 66 years old when I did it.
First. That "Go LIght" attitude will not get you to Katahdin. For many it gives you a false sence of hope. Thinking that because you are traveling light it will be an easy hike. It won't be. A thru-hike is a hard adventure. I have met many hikers, at the start of their thru attempt that thought that they would have an easy time because they were traveling light, only to find out that they dropped out after only traveling a short way.
If you start with a pack that is 25 lbs. or under is a good starting point. You will learn, after you hike awile, what you can do without and adjust.
Remember one thing: Plenty of folks have thru-hiked and carried a pack that was 40 t0 50 lbs and made it to Katahdin.
Water treatment: choose what suits you best. If you want to drink water, treated, right from a source than use a filter. Both Polar Pure and Aqua Mira need time to work before you can drink.
I would definately take a tent. Nice tents under three pounds are available.
There is nothing like a good tent when the bugs are out in force or when the weather is bad. Sometimes you just need some extra privacy. I did several nights in a hammock and decided that my tent suited me better.
Definately carry a journal and a camera. It's nice to keep a daily record of what you have done. I used a disposable camera, about 20 of them. Brought them along the way and shipped them home when used up. Take a guide. I tool the AT Data Book and The Thru-hiker handbook. Now I think all the info. from the Data Book is in the Handbook. Maps are also nice to have. I started without them but after a while I brought them along the way.
I would stay away from a down sleeping bag. Once they get wet they are useless and hard to dry. A 20 degree sinthetic bad is just fine. Unless you are starting in Jan or Feb.
As far as footwear. I used one pair of boots for my whole hike. They were Montrail AT Hikers. I had the soles replaced after 1,500 miles. I had a few blisters during my start but after that I had no foot problems. If you use running shoes they only last 300 to 400 miles. Hiked with some folks that once they got up the trail where everyone needed new trail runners they could not locate what they wanted. If you go with this type of footwear think about having a spare pair home to be shipped to you.
I would wait for a while before you think about bring a book along. You won't want to just sit around and read for the first couple of months. You are just too tiard to do anything but eat and sleep after hiking all day.
Take a good utility knife with you. I took a Swiss army knife. Liked the can opener, sisors, nail file, twesers. You will need a lot of these things anyway.
I used a simple nylon wallet. Just enough to carry cash, credit card and drivers licence.
Definately take a light that you can wear on your head. A lot of times you need to have two free hands. Plenty to choose from.
As far a a stove. I started with a Wisper Lite. Along the way I changed to an alcohl can stove. Look at all the different ones out there. The one I use does not require a stand and fits inside my pot.
Use stuff sacks to help orginize your gear. I had one for food and one for cloths. I used a Kelty frame pack so I had plenty of pockets to keep my gear seperated. It's a long hike. Choose gear that you think will last. I think that stuff sacks made from Tyvac will not last too long.
Just remember one more thing. The chance that you make it to Katahdin are against you right from the start. Only about 20 % of those who start will finish. That said, choose your gear with some thought.
Happy trails to all those who thru-hike in 2010. :sun
Remember, equipment, while important, is the least important part of hiking.
Get your basics, go on a shakedown backpack or two or three or four (or if you have the time, do some like Vermont's Long Trail or similar), modify in between the backpacking trips and then off to Springer or Katahdin you go.
Too many people concentrate on gear as the cause for their shortened hike. Or the means to a successful hike.
A few backpacking trips before the main event is not only fun, but will help you dial-in your gear before you start a thru-hike. With a gear setup that works for you, the endless debates on which Titanium Whatchamahoosey or Lexan Widget is best can be ignored. :)
Then you concentrate on the really important part of the hikes: The vistas, how wonderful the simple act of walking can become, the shared journeys with like-minded people.
All mental aspects..because mental aspects are far more important than what kind of knife you use, which stove you use to boil your Mass Glop of Starch Noodles, and how you treat your water.
This is a 2200 mile jaunt. Get some basic preparation in before you thru-hike. Get a base level of fitness, backpack as much as you can to get your gear dialed-in and then hike.
And if you aren't having fun weeks in your hike after having done all the basic prep? Then get off the trail.
A thru-hike is not the end all and be all of enjoying the outdoors. Section hiking has many benefits, many people enjoy the camaraderie found on long term trail projects (campfires as night, you get fed and the people are great!), day hiking stretches of the trail can be cool or maybe you'll just find another way of enjoying the outdoors.
Why should anyone take advice on how to do a thru from a "statistic?"
cause he uses vulgar language. He's cool.
Lots of good knowledge and millions of miles of sound advice from good hikers, here on WB. But indeed, see what works for you... what sticks & what doesn't. Always good to read upon advice of others & thier experiences. I'll admit, Iv'e read a few lines on here that have made me chuckle when it comes to gear advice and such. but also have tested out some theory's and switched it up.
Cheers all for the input on such a good site. In the end, no doubt about it .... HYOH ;)
Hey Bobbyw I posted a picture of us drinking beers in Hampton TN. All of the advice you just gave is Dead-On-Balls accurate, I agree 100% with what you are saying here.
Hey man! I was just talking about you the other day. PM me sometime, tell me how life is going. Thanks for the photo, someone stole my memory card shortly after we met so I lost all mine.
I must admit I've been watching this thread and it's been more interesting than anticipated as was the the thread I might not hike with a map, which may not yet have risen to the level of WhiteBlaze All-time Keeper, but does rise above the refuse destined to soon be forgotten. This thread might yet go somewhere too, although, if it does, it's sure to be a long read.
traildust
01-09-2010, 18:37
WoW!:eek:
A 23yr. old, 800 mile know it all.:rolleyes:
This should be moved to the hiking humor.:-?
Not that you can't learn something in 800 miles, but to assume your way is THE way (regardless of experience) is beyond me.:(
Learning what works for you is the best way. :-? Advice can be helpful, but someone doing it THEIR way doesn't make it the wrong way OR the hard way. ;)
As for your steals gap and other snide comments... have you considered the fact that they are so good at what they do, they could spot a (30 mile) know-it-all (with an attitude, read: sniveler) within seconds, and spent as little time as possible with them sharing their advice????:)
Funny how often folks like yourself rarely reach their goal.:rolleyes:
I didn't read his suggestions as an assumption that his way was THE WAY. You folks are a little harsh and your harshness makes you guilty of the "no it all" attitude you accuse him of having.
Lighten up. As wolf will say "its just walking".
I didn't read his suggestions as an assumption that his way was THE WAY.
Good for you. I hope others will read it in the same way and have plenty of time to spare.
I didn't read his suggestions as an assumption that his way was THE WAY. You folks are a little harsh and your harshness makes you guilty of the "no it all" attitude you accuse him of having.
Lighten up. As wolf will say "its just walking".
When you use words like DO, or more so, DONT well, it sure does appear like his way is THE way. :confused:
His insults and snide remarks were "harsh". Seems only fair to be served off the same dish.;)
LW said that?:D maybe I'll ask him to add: up and down -sometimes steep mountains with a pack on your back in all sorts of weather.:eek:
I could be wrong about that.:rolleyes:
Anyways, when I was 23 and my dad was 50- he didn't know it all, but he sure knew more than me.:-?
Ox97GaMe
01-09-2010, 19:52
Every year, I meet probably 1 out of evry 4 hikers that are attempting a thru hike somewhere in the southern part of the trail. (Yes, Im out there a LOT) I always get asked about suggestions for hiking gear or to help shake down a pack. Im not a 'know it all' by any means. The thing I tell folks is that gear is a personal preference, and that every decision you make about gear has a pro and a con side. One needs to understand both sides and make choices that they feel comfortable about.
The things that are true about those that have completed a thru hike.....
- Some have finished with as little as 10 lbs, some have carried as much as 75
- Some have used tents, some have used hammocks, some have used tarps, some have not carried any shelter at all
- Some have carried alcohol stoves, some white gas, some cook over open fire, some dont cook at all
- Some wear boots, some wear tennis shoes, some wear trail runners, some wear sandlals, and some have walked the whole way barefoot.
I bring up all this to reiterate a point that was made earlier in this thread...... Gear is not the factor that determines success. A successful thru hike is only achieved through determination, persistance, patience, committment, and a little bit (or a lot) of luck. At the end of the day, it is just walking. And walking. And more walking. You have to Hike your own Hike and be "reasonalbly" comfortable doing it.
Happy Hiking, and hope to see you out there this year. :)
I see some people responded with the usual "yer young chap" and "katahdin doesn't allow ultralighters" and "no cussin' or I'm tellin ma". I guess what I'm trying to help with most of you, is test your **** somewhere safe, but just because some of these guys started with a machete, a headlamp, and a map doesn't mean you need one. Test things out yourself and find what you want, but start at the minimal and work UP. I lost my knife at mile 170, and didn't get another one until I found one in my Mom's car at Trail days, over a month later. I'm not saying you don't need a knife, I have a large one in my pocket right now, but I didn't ever get tied up, or need to flay a deer on the trail.... all I ever took it out of my pack for was to cut cheese, and some pockets/crap off packs of people who asked me to shake em down. The keychain photon lights I posted are FREAKING BRIGHT. Brighter than MOST of the headlamps I've seen out there. And yes, I could even read books with it, I found a way to hang it from my ridgeline, and I just figured out how to get by with less. I __NEVER__ used a map. and out of the thousand+ people I met, __MOST__ of them didn't. On the other hand, most of the people (almost all) had a guidebook. Appalachian Pages have an elevation profile.
I don't know it all, but I didn't name myself Tech Support, the people whom I helped learn how to properly use their gear did, so take advice from me (and please, everyone here) under the assumption that there is no right or wrong, and no one knows everything.