View Full Version : aerogel products, anyone used it?
Does anyone have experience with an Aerogel backpacking product?
Aerogel is lightweight and has high R-value insulation.
Aerogel is in PolarWrap Toasty Feet (http://www.polarwrap.com/default.aspx?pid=1&sid=37&show) insoles. Aerogel is in PolarWrap PolarPad (http://www.polarwrap.com/default.aspx?pid=1&sid=40&show=).
Aerogel is in these "4 season" sleeping pads:
Pacific Outdoor Equipment Hyper High Mtn,
Pacific Outdoor Equipment Uber High Mtn,
Pacific Outdoor Equipment Peak Oyl Aero Mtn Women's,
and Men's longer length sleeping pads.
I would link to Pacific Outdoor Equipment (http://www.pacoutdoor.com/) individual products, however they have a downloadable PDF catelogue instead.
Are these products soft? Is it like sleeping on styrofoam?
I am not "challenging" Aerogel as a product: I would like to know.
. . .
I'd sure love to try it if I can find the money, especially the POE pad with the side berms.
connie i think i recall seeing a hearty discussion of this at www dot backpackinglight dot com. perhaps you want to check there
Aerogel is supposedly pretty top notch. The stuff is set to insulate NASA spacecraft and suits. It transmits basically no temperature.
I saw a demo where a researcher had a piece of it in his hands like a waiters tray and used a welding torch to try and burn the stuff, putting his hands at risk. The temperature didn't go through. My dad's a plastics engineer so he likes to brag about stuff like this in his workplace :)
that being said, I'm hoping it the same aerogel we're talking about
Hmm. The Aerogel I know about is friable and rigid. It is susceptible to catastrophic failure when overloaded. So I would doubt it is suitable for a rugged use like hiking pads and insulation. And I am very skeptical about the lifetime of something like an insole.
However, someone may have re-engineered aerogel for such uses. I'm an old guy, and my experience is in High Energy Physics, where the lightest, most fragile gels were used in instruments called Čerenkov counters. They certainly wouldn't have worked as seating pads or insole material. Perhaps someone has been able to make an aerogel with a more suitable material, like a silicone or polyurethane. Wouldn't know.
However, the chief property of interest in traditional aerogels is their very low density (weight) which is what gives them their remarkable insulating properties. The early ones were all made of silica gel: very high melting point and high transparency coupled with good gelling. Essentially the material is a foam with a very small pore size. To get a practical hiker proof aerogel, I suspect you would have to make the pore size bigger, the density higher, and the foam material more flexible. This would not improve the insulation any. Newer carbon based gels might be a step in the right direction.
So color me skeptical, but curious.
I have a two year old Pacific Outdoor Equipment Hyper High Mtn that was given to me as a gift. It hasn't catastrophically failed or shown any signs of failure. Good, warm, somewhat heavy, but expensive pad.
Egads,
Is the sleeping pad sufficiently soft?
Is it comfortable?
Is it "four season"?
Egads,
Is the sleeping pad sufficiently soft?
not as much as an air mattress, but more so than a ridgerest or Z-rest
Is it comfortable?
I can sleep on it
Is it "four season"?
Yes, the aerogel areas have the highest R rating of any backpacker's pad I've seen on the market
See the three reviews on the link http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Sleep%20Gear/Pads%20and%20Air%20Mattresses/POE%20Hyper%20High%20Mountain%20Sleeping%20Pad/
I just bought a POE aerogel pad. It's not warmer than both of my pads put together, but it's a great compromise.
How is it for comfort?
How is it for rolling up, or how you pack it? in or outside the pack?
Have you tried it in cold weather, yet?
I'll let you know. I literally just bought it. The thing is though that this area isn't cold yet. I only have a zero degree bag, so I'd probably feel good on any pad. I'll be taking a couple trips up to the mountains where there's plenty of snow & ice, but that won't come until next month at the earliest...and it still isn't all that cold. Still though, I bought it because it was a couple pounds lighter than my Therma-a-Rest and should be about as warm or warmer....and because it was $40.
$40
I hope I find one at a great price.
I am thinking this "aerogel" product may make my shopping list.
It's at REI online. Go get it.
Can't beat that price, ordered one.
I wonder if aerogel could be used in mittens?
Yeah, that price is nothing to complain about. Same price as a Z-rest with 2-3x or more than insulating power. If it's really that good, you should be able to get away with a lighter sleeping bag.
I think it'd work for mitts if you put it in the same areas that armor is put on motorcycle gloves.
Rocketman
01-11-2010, 21:23
In the Aerospace game, we had heard of Aero Gel so often as the next "wonder stuff" (even though it had a pretty long history of "interest" as a lightweight material). Actually, most of us had heard about it till we were sort of sick and tired of hearing about it. Always new... but always the same old same old.
Evidently, some people greatly modified the "ingredients" and kept the name AeroGel.
For a while, everything was "proprietary". After a while, I and others became bored again. Big promises and virtually no facts.
Finally a few products were released, but they were still significantly "hyped".
This new stuff could be good, but a lot of us old guys don't really even care anymore. We got tired out a long time ago.
Wake me up in a few more years, and there might be enough real information out there to deserve interest.
If nothing else, I'm happy to support the technology. I'd love to see it become an easily affordable common product. Imagine if it was used as liner for the sides and lids of pots. That would certainly help it heat up faster and stay warm, which could be very nice for conserving fuel...even better if they had something you could sit the bottom of the pot into. Also, how awesome would it be if you could get a bottle cozy that weighs nothing. Then you'd have to do nothing to prevent your bottles from freezing in the winter. I'd love to see it in winter boots to add warmth, decrease the thickness of soles, and decrease weight.
Still though, the place I'd love to see it the most is in electric vehicles for insulating the interior. It'd reduce weight directly and indirectly by means of lighter insulation and reduced hvac requirements.
Rocketman
01-12-2010, 11:28
If nothing else, I'm happy to support the technology. I'd love to see it become an easily affordable common product. Imagine if it was used as liner for the sides and lids of pots. That would certainly help it heat up faster and stay warm, which could be very nice for conserving fuel...even better if they had something you could sit the bottom of the pot into. Also, how awesome would it be if you could get a bottle cozy that weighs nothing. Then you'd have to do nothing to prevent your bottles from freezing in the winter. I'd love to see it in winter boots to add warmth, decrease the thickness of soles, and decrease weight.
Still though, the place I'd love to see it the most is in electric vehicles for insulating the interior. It'd reduce weight directly and indirectly by means of lighter insulation and reduced hvac requirements.
The following is from a Wikipedia article on Aerogel..... the article is said to be in need of expert editing, so if anyone wants to become an "AeroGel Expert Instantly", this is your chance.
Aerogel has been around since 1931, as the article states. It was subject to "press revival" every five to 10 years, and then a new round of articles lauding it as "Lightest material ever made", "Solid Smoke", "Revolutionary", "Earth shattering" and so on would make the rounds.
Then the field would again quietly sink into silence for a while, until enough editors had forgotten about it and would be awakened to new articles about the great wonders of AeroGel supported by the new editors who had never seen the same old stuff trotted out years previously.
Once in a while, it managed to find a unique but highly limited application.
This article is in need of attention from an expert on the subject. WikiProject Chemistry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Chemistry) or the Chemistry Portal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Chemistry) may be able to help recruit one. (November 2008)
Aerogel is a manufactured (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing) material with the lowest bulk density (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density) of any known porous solid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerogel#cite_note-GuinnessRecord-0) It is derived from a gel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gel) in which the liquid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid) component of the gel has been replaced with a gas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas). The result is an extremely low-density solid with several remarkable properties, most notably its effectiveness as a thermal insulator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_conductivity) and its extremely low density. It is nicknamed frozen smoke,[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerogel#cite_note-Times081907-1) solid smoke or blue smoke due to its translucent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparency_%28optics%29) nature and the way light (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light) scatters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scattering) in the material; however, it feels like expanded polystyrene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polystyrene#Solid_foam) (styrofoam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Styrofoam)) to the touch.
Aerogel was first created by Samuel Stephens Kistler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Stephens_Kistler) in 1931, as a result of a bet with Charles Learned over who could replace the liquid in 'jellies' with gas without causing shrinkage.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerogel#cite_note-2)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerogel#cite_note-3)
Aerogels are produced by extracting the liquid component of a gel through supercritical drying (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercritical_drying). This allows the liquid to be slowly drawn off without causing the solid matrix in the gel to collapse from capillary action (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capillary_action), as would happen with conventional evaporation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporation). The first aerogels were produced from silica gels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silica_gel). Kistler's later work involved aerogels based on alumina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alumina), chromia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium%28III%29_oxide) and tin oxide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_oxide). Carbon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon) aerogels were first developed in the late 1980s.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerogel#cite_note-4)
There is a little more optimistic material in the Wikipedia article that fans of the material can cut and paste to astound the uninitiated with the wonders of the material, lying just ahead for those who will only try it.
To make it easy for the "cut and pasters" here is the article link. The article evidently has been not updated for about 2 years. The progress is so blazingly fast that no one has the time to keep it up to date. :sun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerogel
We need to wring out all of the potential benefits, yet once again, of ultralight thermal insulation and some of the modern benefits of having it reinforced with great things like carbon, diamond, and other astounding stuff.
In a few years, we can come back and do it all over again, again.:sun
mister krabs
01-12-2010, 14:11
wow, that's the very last POE pad that REI has. I wonder if they're not going to carry them anymore?
There are three new models at the Pacific Outdoor Equipment website.
I listed them in my first post.
I think REI is only selling off last year's model.
Rocketman,
This product list (http://www.solgel.com/biz/com.htm) is kept updated.
I don't rely on the wiki: the wiki guy edits whatever he likes and dislikes.
And yes, there is a wiki guy. He sure acts like he owns it.
As far as I am concerned, it isn't a wiki.
So Connie, why don't you buy one and write a gear review about it?
mister krabs
01-14-2010, 10:14
[QUOTE=Connie;951450]There are three new models at the Pacific Outdoor Equipment website.
I listed them in my first post.
QUOTE]
Those are last year's models. Their site's been "under construction" for pretty much all of 2009. They do have a booth at outdoor retailer 2010 so that makes me hopeful that they'll have new product in a few weeks after the show. I have a 13oz older version of the peak oyl lite that I really like even though it's a 1" pad.
They incomprehensibly followed thermarest's lead and completely changed all the names of their products last year, but I didn't notice any "new" stuff for 2009. Maybe they'll come up with their neo-air fighter. That would be cool. Hopefully we'll see in a couple weeks.
I downloaded the PDF. I thought those were the new models.
I am interested in purchasing the Uber High Mtn.
mister krabs, I will be watching with you.
Egads, I have never carried a full length pad. My backpack goes under my legs.
The most I have carried is the Volara pad as a "tent floor".
Rocketman
01-16-2010, 22:13
There are three new models at the Pacific Outdoor Equipment website.
I listed them in my first post.
I think REI is only selling off last year's model.
Rocketman,
This product list (http://www.solgel.com/biz/com.htm) is kept updated.
I don't rely on the wiki: the wiki guy edits whatever he likes and dislikes.
And yes, there is a wiki guy. He sure acts like he owns it.
As far as I am concerned, it isn't a wiki.
As far as I am concerned, this product is still in the category of empty claims of wonderland just within grasp, as it has been since 1931.
Please buy one or more of the products and evaluate them compared to state of the art. Include a year or so of trail wear and tear.
I don't think it's a wasted effort in the pad I bought. With the insulating rating that's been verified in reviews and the weight, I think it's a good deal. It's not everything I dreamed Aerogel would be, but I can't hate on it when it appears to be better than competing products. I'll give my final review after the PCT, which is much more than a typical year of wear and tear.
So here's my mini review of the aerogel sleeping pad.
The weather was slightly windy with temps in the low 20's. It had been raining all week so the ground still had a lot of moisture, which was made worse by making camp directly on the trail. I used a plastic ground sheet, a zero degree synthetic sleeping bag, and a goretex bivy. The pad went inside the bivy.
I didn't even take the pad out of the bag until I made camp Saturday night, so the sticker that said I should inflate and deflate the pad several times for maximum effectiveness was still on there...oops. I filled it once, blew a puff of air into it and closed the vent. I didn't notice any cold spots, although my feet were cold...until I realized they were hanging off the pad. I repositioned my sleeping bag and was toasty hot, actually overheating, for most of the night....I need to work on regulating my temperature better. By the end of the night I started feeling a chill, or at least not overly warm, but the ground didn't seem like a factor. I think I was getting cool from the long 13 night, barely eating before I went to bed, and having to get up 3 times to relieve myself...brrr!
In short, I love the pad so far.
Talking about Aerogel...
Hannesbrands was showing at the Outdoor Winter show a suit made with this stuff. Interesting reading.
http://www.trailspace.com/blog/2010/01/22/outdoor-retailer-thinnest-extreme-suit-for-everest.html (http://www.trailspace.com/blog/2010/01/22/outdoor-retailer-thinnest-extreme-suit-for-everest.html)
Franco