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Graywolf
01-13-2010, 10:14
I have read in more than just a few journals of hikers, especially thru-hikers that set their tents up inside a shelter..What does this accomplish except for taking up space for other hikers who may need the shelter..

I really think it is inconsiderate, but the I guess thats me...But don't you think it would be wise to set the tent up out side so those who need the shelter have space...

Graywolf

Lone Wolf
01-13-2010, 10:17
i don't use shelters so i don't care what folks do in them, on them or around them :)

JokerJersey
01-13-2010, 10:21
I can easily imagine a situation where I'd ask the people in a shelter if I could set up my tent inside it and then MOVE it outside once it was set-up, like in a torrential rainstorm to keep the inside dry. I really can't see the reason for setting up and then leaving the tent INSIDE the shelter the whole night.

SGT Rock
01-13-2010, 10:22
I've seen it more than once. If you choose to stay at shelters, it is one of the things you will have to deal with.

Hyway
01-13-2010, 10:23
My buddy set up his tent inside the shelter on Blood Mountain because the rain was blowing in through teh window. We were the only two people there so it didn't matter.

On another occasion I saw an inconsiderate moron set up his tent inside Muskrat Creek shelter during a snowstorm. The inside of the shelter was soaking wet everywhere, so I understand why he did it. Still, people were packing in all around his tent the later the day grew. I hope he either let some people sleep inside with him or that he took it down. I had only stopped to make an early dinner and hot chocolate, then hiked on.

garlic08
01-13-2010, 10:24
It's pretty ridiculous, but fairly normal behavior along the AT. Read Bill Bryson's book for other examples. There are a LOT of people with easy access to the AT, and not every single one of them is kind and considerate. You see just about everything along the way. But it is easy enough to at least camp away from the crowds.

wcgornto
01-13-2010, 10:24
I only came across a couple of people who set up their tent in a shelter as a regular way of doing things. In each case, there was plenty of room in the shelter, so they didn't take space from anybody.

I came across several people, including me, who set up their tent in a shelter a time or two because of mosquitoes. In my case, when I did this, I was already set up n the shelter with my gear spread out, and then I set up the tent because the mosquitoes were bothering me. In each case, there were few or no other people in the shelter.

sasquatch2014
01-13-2010, 10:25
The few times I have seen this done in my area it has been during the early or late season and never when there are others who need shelter space. As I am not a tenter can't really tell you why they would do it other than to block some wind or maybe let the tent dry out. I know some of the shelters I have been at can get a pretty good breeze blowing into them.

I was at one of the shelters in the very south of SNP in a fall and we had a very windy drizzel/mist that was blwoing in and made you feel like you were still getting rained on. I arrived as it was getting dark and had the place to myself so I set up my tarp in one corner to give me some extra protection. About 8:30 or 9:00 a father and two sons rolled into camp. I asked if they minded the tarp and they said no there was still plenty of room so I just left it up. They were all pretty damp by daybreak but I was dry.

white_russian
01-13-2010, 10:26
It can add up to 5 degrees of extra warmth by being inside a tent. Combine that with the wind and water barriers that a shelter affords. If it is a cold rainy night and you don't want to get your tent sloppy but could use the extra warmth then it works out nice.

It is a dick move if there are other people that might want to use it, but if by the time to go to sleep no one taking up that space then it hurts no one.

Personally I have a flat cooking tarp that I sometimes put up on the exposed side of a shelter. Best of both worlds.

SGT Rock
01-13-2010, 10:31
The thing some folks don't factor in when they do that though is heat loss out the bottom. Raised platforms are like bridges - the help with heat loss. So while you might add 5F to your inside the shelter temp, you could be loosing 5F from what you get if you just set up your tent on the ground.

white_russian
01-13-2010, 10:33
The thing some folks don't factor in when they do that though is heat loss out the bottom. Raised platforms are like bridges - the help with heat loss. So while you might add 5F to your inside the shelter temp, you could be loosing 5F from what you get if you just set up your tent on the ground.
If your pad is worth a damn that doesn't matter.

SGT Rock
01-13-2010, 10:34
Actually it still does because your pad doesn't cover the entire bottom of the tent. But whatever.

bigmac_in
01-13-2010, 11:15
I never stay in shelters, but did one night last fall on a section hike. It had been raining all day, and showed no signs of letting up, so my friend and I didn't want to set our tents up in the driving rain. Shelters are filthy, and rodent infested, so we set our tents up in the shelter to combat those two things. We hadn't seen a sole in 2 days because of the rain, so we were not robbing space from anyone else.

TEXMAN
01-13-2010, 11:42
I have read in more than just a few journals of hikers, especially thru-hikers that set their tents up inside a shelter..What does this accomplish except for taking up space for other hikers who may need the shelter..

I really think it is inconsiderate, but the I guess thats me...But don't you think it would be wise to set the tent up out side so those who need the shelter have space...

Graywolf

Hiking in Feb. I shared a shelter with two others and we filled the shelter with 3 tents set .... the wind was very very cold ......
We were prepared to move if anyone else showed up at the shelter but until then we were staying warm.

In the spring I saw people set tents up in the shelter because of mosquitos ....many tents don't have a footprint larger than a pad and sleeping bag.

In the Smokies I shared a shelter with 17 people when those who did not have a reservation showed up ....many hikers are unprepared to stay anywhere except the shelters. They just assume there will be space when they get there.

The shelters are shared space and as new people show up and circumstances change those already there will usually adjust to accomodate the new hikers...

If someone has a tent in a shelter and it takes up space that you need to use then simply ask them to move, (most will have already suggested it before you have to ask )

I would hate to see the rules for shelters become so defined that the spaces on the floor are marked out (thru hiker space, section hiker space, one dog space per shelter, spaces next to walls saved for snorers ) and signs posted like the handicapped parking spaces at the local Walmart.

My question is when will the snakes and bees that took over shelters I wanted to stay in last year be a little more considerate?

O.M. River

Spokes
01-13-2010, 12:13
Most hikers I saw doing this were trying to get away from bugs.

Tents inside shelters is an antithetical concept.

Toolshed
01-13-2010, 12:13
Not being sexist, but Factual. I have seen this on 3 separate ocassions and each time it was 2 women that set them up in shelters. I find it annoying for those that might use shelters and aren't agressive enough to tell them to move the damn tent out of the shelter, but since I don't stay in them, I just shake my head at the foolishness and keep moving along....

StarLyte
01-13-2010, 12:16
I did this years ago at Hawk Mountain Shelter. The mice were so bad that I was losing sleep. I set up my tent real quick and went fast asleep.

Only my friend was in the shelter with me that night.

There were so many mice, you could hear them scurrying up and down the walls even - it was awful. That was my worse mouse night.

Spokes
01-13-2010, 12:19
I did this years ago at Hawk Mountain Shelter. The mice were so bad that I was losing sleep. I set up my tent real quick and went fast asleep.

Only my friend was in the shelter with me that night.

There were so many mice, you could hear them scurrying up and down the walls even - it was awful. That was my worse mouse night.


You're lucky one of little varmints didn't chew a hole through your tent. I'd have to re-access that strategy.

iTrod
01-13-2010, 12:24
The footprint of a MSR Hubba tent is not much larger than a sleeping bag/pad combination (perhaps a foot longer). When there was adequate space in a shelter, I have set up my tent in a shelter for warmth and or mosquito protection. I usually do this when alone in a shelter during the "off-season" so space is not an issue. However, I did set it up in the Alec Kennedyshelter in PA this past September (where there are no flat sites for tenting). One elderly hiker seemed concerned about space issues, so I moved it another foot away from his sleeping bag (easily done with a self-standing tent). As it turned out, everybody had plenty of space. I would not hesitate to ditch the tent, however, if the shelter appeared to be getting anywhere close to snug. As in all things in life, good judgement applies.

Skyline
01-13-2010, 12:38
If you use a bivy, you probably aren't taking up much more shelter space than a sleeping bag and pad. No foul.

If you're taking up much more space than that by using a tent in a shelter, you're taking space others may potentially need. Hikers arrive at all hours so I would not assume that just because it was my bedtime, the coast was clear.

I don't use shelters for sleeping anyway, but I can see it from the POV of those who do.

Ender
01-13-2010, 12:51
If you're taking up much more space than that by using a tent in a shelter, you're taking space others may potentially need.

I will say, unless you're injured, you should never need to use a shelter. You should always carry a shelter of your own, be it tent, tarp, bivy, hammock, yurt, teepee, whatever.

Strategic
01-13-2010, 12:54
I sort-of set up a tent inside of Wildcat shelter once, to keep the mosquitoes off (it was early August and they were out in force.) I didn't really set the tent up, just wedged my hiking pole between the wall and my pack and hooked the top front tie-out on the end just like I would normally, then pulled the partially unzipped net door down over my head and upper body and tucked it in around my bag. I kept the rest of the tent rolled up and it worked just fine as an improvised head net (the tent's a fine old Squall 2 from Tarptent) and really didn't take up any more room than I did anyway. Of course, it didn't hurt that I was alone as well, but I doubt anyone would have been offended if I hadn't been.

ShelterLeopard
01-13-2010, 12:57
I have read in more than just a few journals of hikers, especially thru-hikers that set their tents up inside a shelter..What does this accomplish except for taking up space for other hikers who may need the shelter..

I really think it is inconsiderate, but the I guess thats me...But don't you think it would be wise to set the tent up out side so those who need the shelter have space...

Graywolf

It accomplishes pissing people off.

srestrepo
01-13-2010, 13:22
its kind of a douchebaggy thing to set up a tent no matter how small in a shelter... i understand that if there is no one there that might be fine, but why would you do it. millions of flat spots out there, just find one and LNT.

or get a bivy and sleep in that in a shelter. i mean really, i dont set up my tent in my room when my friends sleep over...

Lilred
01-13-2010, 13:45
I set up my hubba in a shelter once. Well, it wasn't actually in the shelter but on the porch that was attached to the shelter. There was no flat land to put my tent on, and the biting gnats were out in full force. It was a huge shelter, two floors. Another person set up their hammock and another couple set up their tent upstairs. There was still plenty of room for more hikers. Of course, one idiot had to stop and yell at us for setting up the tents. Foul old man, who wasn't even staying there anyhow. We all had a good laugh about that.

There is only one reason to consider it rude to set up a tent in a shelter and that is when it takes space away from somebody else. That's it. Otherwise, people are only bitching to hear themselves bitch.

Nean
01-13-2010, 14:13
I set up my hubba in a shelter once. Well, it wasn't actually in the shelter but on the porch that was attached to the shelter. There was no flat land to put my tent on, and the biting gnats were out in full force. It was a huge shelter, two floors. Another person set up their hammock and another couple set up their tent upstairs. There was still plenty of room for more hikers. Of course, one idiot had to stop and yell at us for setting up the tents. Foul old man, who wasn't even staying there anyhow. We all had a good laugh about that.

There is only one reason to consider it rude to set up a tent in a shelter and that is when it takes space away from somebody else. That's it. Otherwise, people are only bitching to hear themselves bitch.

Well said.;) Folks who can't tell the difference in regard to the situation are nothing more than SNIVELERS!:D

Lone Wolf
01-13-2010, 14:17
Of course, one idiot had to stop and yell at us for setting up the tents. Foul old man, who wasn't even staying there anyhow. We all had a good laugh about that.


sorry about that day. i've since learned to not let stuff like that bother me

Sly
01-13-2010, 14:52
If I see it I start smoking, cooking, farting and burping. :D

Sly
01-13-2010, 14:56
There was no flat land to put my tent on, and the biting gnats were out in full force.

That's hard to believe, maybe if you walked another .5 miles....:rolleyes:

max patch
01-13-2010, 15:12
There is only one reason to consider it rude to set up a tent in a shelter and that is when it takes space away from somebody else. That's it. Otherwise, people are only bitching to hear themselves bitch.

Whats worse...the person who sets up a tent in a shelter or the hiker that shows up at midnite expecting to sleep in the shelter?

Which is just another way of pointing out that if you set up a tent in a shelter you have no idea if you are taking that space away from anyone.

I sleep in the woods. Ya'll do whatever.

Sly
01-13-2010, 15:19
Whats worse...the person who sets up a tent in a shelter or the hiker that shows up at midnite expecting to sleep in the shelter?



Of course there's always a chance a shelter may be full (moreso if it's full of tenters), but I don't see a problem with someone night hiking.

sasquatch2014
01-13-2010, 15:20
I know that in many states there are laws being passed about smoking in public places. One day something that may take effect at shelters as well. So if I set up my private tent in a shelter can I smoke in it or not?:-?

Ender
01-13-2010, 15:22
So if I set up my private tent in a shelter can I smoke in it or not?:-?

Deep philosophical questions by Sasquatch2014 :sun

Graywolf
01-13-2010, 18:51
Whats worse...the person who sets up a tent in a shelter or the hiker that shows up at midnite expecting to sleep in the shelter?

Which is just another way of pointing out that if you set up a tent in a shelter you have no idea if you are taking that space away from anyone.

I sleep in the woods. Ya'll do whatever.

These answers aer really making me laugh..First we are told that during thru hiking season, the shelters will be full,,I can post numerous of threads statiing that, plus all the trailjournals...

Then I see posts saying you have no idea if the shelter will be full or not..Come on folks,, are the shelters full during thru hiking season or not..Lets get the fact straight...

It is a no brainer to set up your tent in a shelter...What a joke.!!!

Toolshed
01-13-2010, 19:04
We hashed this out in another forum. I think the general opinion was essentially that if you are setting your tent up in a shelter and clinging to lame excuses such as it's not yet full, or the bugs were biting (Would the bugs not be thwarted if you set up your tent outside the shelter?) or you didn't want the tent to get wet in the rain, then you are generally viewed as a packsniffer or a total incompetent. (maybe we should start a poll here........

ShelterLeopard
01-13-2010, 19:07
I can't believe this is even a question. If you want to sleep in your tent, DO IT OUTSIDE. What the h3ll else is a tent for?

Jack Tarlin
01-13-2010, 19:15
Shelter Leopard is correct.

If one doesn't want to do the social interaction/shared space thing, then don't stay in the shelter, it's not hard.

But setting up a tent in a shelter, as well as taking an inappropriate and unfair ammount of space that might be utilized or needed by other people who arrive later, is anti-social and rude.

If you're worried about bugs or feel the need for privacy, well that's what your tent is for and that's why you find a nice place to pitch it.

Oh, I've also been around when people who set up their tents in shelters were obviously engaged in intimate behavior therein.....despite the presence of other people a few feet away.

The yuck factor here is pretty much indescribable. :eek:

ChinMusic
01-13-2010, 19:21
i find it annoying for those that might use shelters and aren't agressive enough to tell them to move the damn tent out of the shelter, but since i don't stay in them, i just shake my head at the foolishness and keep moving along....
+1..........

Daydream Believer
01-13-2010, 20:26
Recently we, my husband and I, set up our tent in a shelter (Woods Hole Shelter) on our way up over Blood Mountain. There were three other hikers there and we asked them if they minded...and they said no, they did not as there was plenty of room. It was a very cold (18F with 40mph winds) night and the tent did help keep the drafts down some. Wood Hole Shelter was very exposed out on a spur and the wind was hitting it broadside...and whoever said it earlier...the floor was a great heat loss. The kids put down a tarp and slept on it and we had the tent floor and our mats. We all got along fine and the other hikers said they wished they'd brought a tent or they'd have done the same as we did.

If someone else had showed up without a tent or needed the shelter space, we would have moved the tent out..it would have been very easy to pick it up and move it sleeping bags and all...it's one big unit when assembled...but no one did come in after dark.

Trees and branches were falling all night and one landed on top of the shelter and then fell over to where I had originally planned to put up our tent until the three other hikers there said they were OK with us putting it in the shelter. Lucky for us we were not out there but in the shelter instead..it was a big branch.

Hanky panky never entered our minds...way too cold and close quarters for me...but I have to agree that would be nasty to have to listen to.

DragonStar
01-13-2010, 20:44
Shelter Leopard is correct.



Oh, I've also been around when people who set up their tents in shelters were obviously engaged in intimate behavior therein.....despite the presence of other people a few feet away.

The yuck factor here is pretty much indescribable. :eek:

So, pretty much like being at college then. :p

Jack Tarlin
01-13-2010, 20:48
You must have attended a remarkable school.

In Boston, people don't do such things. :D

Press
01-13-2010, 21:03
I did it once in a Byrd's Nest open-front cabin in the SNP that you weren't even supposed to overnight in, so I suppose I was offending not only the purists but also the rule-followers. It was cold as hell and raining and there was no one else there. Each to his own, it didn't harm or inconvenience anyone.

Nean
01-13-2010, 21:12
Fair weather hikers along with those who hike in season (or have yet to go on a LDH) have a point.;)

To make such broad statements and judgements in regard to never, ever is admitting such.:rolleyes:

Hyway
01-13-2010, 23:09
Earlier in this thread I said my buddy set his tent up in the Blood Mountain Shelter. Now some folks say its rude, but we had started at Gooch Mountain Shelter and hiked through hail, rain and lightning the last 2 hours of hiking. He set up his tent after we had been there a while and was sure no one else was showing up. Even so there was still plenty of room on the wooden platform in teh back room. So it isn't always rude.

Chillfactor
01-13-2010, 23:24
I did this years ago at Hawk Mountain Shelter. The mice were so bad that I was losing sleep. I set up my tent real quick and went fast asleep.

Only my friend was in the shelter with me that night.

There were so many mice, you could hear them scurrying up and down the walls even - it was awful. That was my worse mouse night.

I've done the same thing because of the mice. And I used earplugs so I wouldn't hear them scurrying around. The shelter, of course, was empty. Got the idea from a couple who set their tent up in the shelter because of snakes.

Hooch
01-13-2010, 23:33
Just another little thing to add to the list of why shelters suck. To each their own, hike your own hike, etc, but avoid them if you can.

Jim Adams
01-13-2010, 23:54
I have a Hubba...I would never consider setting up a tent in a shelter unless you are treating the person in the tent for hypothermia. My Hubba is the same size as a sleeping mat so yes it only takes up the room of myself...until I unzip the door and step out onto someone elses space. If your tent is small enough to set up in a shelter w/o others complaining then you can also EASILY find a flat spot large enough nearby. Bugs.....use DEET. If there are snakes or mice...go into the woods, there is a reason they hang around shelters. Whether you are alone at the time or not...you are not the only one out there.

geek

Wise Old Owl
01-14-2010, 00:09
My buddy set up his tent inside the shelter on Blood Mountain because the rain was blowing in through teh window. We were the only two people there so it didn't matter.

On another occasion I saw an inconsiderate moron set up his tent inside Muskrat Creek shelter during a snowstorm. The inside of the shelter was soaking wet everywhere, so I understand why he did it. Still, people were packing in all around his tent the later the day grew. I hope he either let some people sleep inside with him or that he took it down. I had only stopped to make an early dinner and hot chocolate, then hiked on.


Your post beggs the question where were the other folks tents? And did anyone set the moron straight?

Hyway
01-14-2010, 01:21
I don't know if anyone else said anything to him. I think I remember him inviting a few people to share the tent with him. I was there only long enough top boil water before moving on. There were a few other tents set up outside the shelter, but most people were just standing around talking about their plans for the night.

SassyWindsor
01-14-2010, 02:12
Shelters give the illiterate hiker a place to scribe symbols/hieroglyphs so as to communicate with fellow hikers.

Tent's in shelters, shrink-wrapped shelters, smokers, dogs, criminals etc, etc, etc.

I believe the shelters attract more than a few people who would most likely never go on the trail. With this comes the folks who think LNT is a recreational drug.

My most unpleasant time(s) on the AT have been in proximity of a shelter. I always stealth camp and steer clear of these a$$hole infested rat resorts.

Nean
01-14-2010, 04:49
Maybe its because I've done most of my hiking out west. Maybe its because most of my AT hiking has been sobo or off season---but to hear folks rant against shelters always makes me wonder -- why?:confused:
With all the in season traffic, shelters reduce impact. Thats wonderful.:sun
If you enjoy your own company;), are anti-social:-?, a Dan Boone wannabe:o, parinoid or scared:eek: simply move along. No need to bad mouth them or the people who find them, at times-enjoyable!:)

Personally, I judge each shelter as I get to it. Sometimes I'll stay if it suits my standards. :oMost of the time they are empty. :)All I ever lost to critters was some dog food I forgot about.:( Hundreds of nights without any problems. :cool:
Maybe I'm just lucky.:confused:

BTW- when I was young(er) I thought the best way to reduce impact (hikers) was to get rid of the shelters.:mad:
I still don't like seeing money getting wasted on unneeded new ones but I've come to realize shelters on the AT are worthwhile.:-?
Every good interstate has its rest stops..... :p
If you still prefer a trail w/o SHELTERS:eek:... there are plenty. :bananaGet off the AT and go do them.:)

earlyriser26
01-14-2010, 06:32
I've only done it once to dry out my tent. I only did it then because no one else was in the shelter. Shelters are great places to stop, but i have not stayed in one since the 80's.

ShelterLeopard
01-14-2010, 11:25
Shelters give the illiterate hiker a place to scribe symbols/hieroglyphs so as to communicate with fellow hikers.

Tent's in shelters, shrink-wrapped shelters, smokers, dogs, criminals etc, etc, etc.

I believe the shelters attract more than a few people who would most likely never go on the trail. With this comes the folks who think LNT is a recreational drug.

My most unpleasant time(s) on the AT have been in proximity of a shelter. I always stealth camp and steer clear of these a$$hole infested rat resorts.



Maybe its because I've done most of my hiking out west. Maybe its because most of my AT hiking has been sobo or off season---but to hear folks rant against shelters always makes me wonder -- why?

No need to bad mouth them or the people who find them, at times-enjoyable!:)

Personally, I judge each shelter as I get to it. Sometimes I'll stay if it suits my standards.

I like your answer Nean! I have had many a good experience in shelters. (Especially in PA and Maine- beautiful, well-built shelters). I love tenting nearish to the trail, (though not near shelters), or stealthing, but I also often really like shelters.

Ender
01-14-2010, 11:37
With all the in season traffic, shelters reduce impact. Thats wonderful.:sun

I would disagree with that... I think they concentrate impact to a single area. I'd also say that the fact that shelters exist make newbie hikers more comfortable going out into the woods, so there are more hikers on the trail, which in fact means greater impact.

Still, they serve a purpose to a lot of hikers... who am I to say that my way is better than theirs? I agree with you... if you don't like shelters, avoid them!:sun

fredmugs
01-14-2010, 11:37
I rarely stay in shelters but I did do this once. I didn't have much experience hiking in what I call cold weather (32 degrees or so) but I rolled into Hawk Mtn shelter this past March and it was really windy and cold plus it was supposed to rain all night (it did). The shelter is huge and I was the only one in it so I set up the tent and used my tarp to cover the front. No problems. The following day going 19 miles SOBO to Flint Mtn shelter was probably the most miserable day I've ever experienced on the trail.

Cannibal
01-14-2010, 12:05
I set-up in a shelter a handful of times. Mostly just to see what shelter life was like. Course, my hammock doesn't take any space away from anybody, but I still wouldn't do it if the shelter was filling. Mostly because that many hikers in a small space isn't my idea of a pleasant aroma.

Those nights spent inside a shelter were much colder than had I been under my tarp. Tarps block a lot more wind than the shelters that seem to be built with the opening facing the prevailing wind.

Nean
01-14-2010, 14:48
I would disagree with that... I think they concentrate impact to a single area. I'd also say that the fact that shelters exist make newbie hikers more comfortable going out into the woods, so there are more hikers on the trail, which in fact means greater impact.

Still, they serve a purpose to a lot of hikers... who am I to say that my way is better than theirs? I agree with you... if you don't like shelters, avoid them!:sun

By concentrating impact they reduce overall impact. :-? W/o them you would have much more, spread over a larger area.;)
While I agree it makes it easier for newbies to cope with the weather a bigger factor I see is making the trail so much easier over the years.:eek: The more people who fall in love w/ the trail the better. Don't like the crowds? Don't hike/camp with them, it's as simple as that.:)

Graywolf
01-14-2010, 14:49
I would disagree with that... I think they concentrate impact to a single area. I'd also say that the fact that shelters exist make newbie hikers more comfortable going out into the woods, so there are more hikers on the trail, which in fact means greater impact.

Still, they serve a purpose to a lot of hikers... who am I to say that my way is better than theirs? I agree with you... if you don't like shelters, avoid them!:sun

Why do you hikers always put down new bie hikers..You were one at one time to, don't you remember..We all have to start somewhere..

The shelters are to me good to have. the privys are very conveinent..Yes, you can go in the woods, I do, but the priveys makes it alittle nicer..The shelters are almost always near water, so you know you have water, espceially if it is hot...

I started this thread bascially for the inconciderate hikers out there that think they are the only ones out there.. I agree with the other poster, bugs, rain, mice, cold, those are pretty lame excuses for setting a tent in the shelter..Period..

I just think it is rude...

Nean
01-14-2010, 14:54
Why do you hikers always put down new bie hikers..You were one at one time to, don't you remember..We all have to start somewhere..

The shelters are to me good to have. the privys are very conveinent..Yes, you can go in the woods, I do, but the priveys makes it alittle nicer..The shelters are almost always near water, so you know you have water, espceially if it is hot...

I started this thread bascially for the inconciderate hikers out there that think they are the only ones out there.. I agree with the other poster, bugs, rain, mice, cold, those are pretty lame excuses for setting a tent in the shelter..Period..

I just think it is rude...

How can it possibly be rude to set up a tent in a empty shelter? :confused::confused:
I guess you'd consider it rude to fart in the woods too?:D

saimyoji
01-14-2010, 14:55
You must have attended a remarkable school.

In Boston, people don't do such things. :D

Hi Jack....since you brought it up.....

http://www.tuftsdaily.com/new-rules-regulate-sexual-activity-in-dormitory-rooms-1.1912397


Tufts is still in Boston right? Why would a university need a policy like this? I know, its all the out of towners right? Sheesh, you'd expect better manners from guests right? :D

Graywolf
01-14-2010, 15:11
How can it possibly be rude to set up a tent in a empty shelter? :confused::confused:
I guess you'd consider it rude to fart in the woods too?:D

uh,, I think it has been mentioned more than once here on White Blaze that the Shelters are pretty much full during season..I would say it is rude..

It's the same token as when a guy drives a F-350, has a handicap parking sticker and decides that it is ok to park in ALL the handicap parking places, just because no one else is using them...

I guess I am one who is considerate to other people and hikers..I guess on my next hike I will just be the opposite, I am going to set up my tent at !:00 in the afternoon because it is too early for anyone else to hike in.. I am going to cook, clean, **** and do all my hygenical things IN the spring.. I am also going to leave all my CRAP sitting around for others to take out..When other hikers come in I am going to tell them I have reserved the shelter and they have to find another place to sleep, and I don't care if your ancle is spranged, your not going to fix it at MY reserved shelter..IT'S MINE!!!

Yep, Vern, thats just what I am going to do..

Ender
01-14-2010, 15:21
Why do you hikers always put down new bie hikers..You were one at one time to, don't you remember..We all have to start somewhere...

I did absolutely no such thing.

I was not, in any way at all, passing judgement on new hikers. New hikers are, understandably, not going to be as comfortable (as a general rule) as seasoned hikers are in the woods. The shelters add a sense of comfort that makes it easier for them to go out into the woods. More hikers = greater impact, but that's no reflection on the hikers themselves.

So, re-read what I posted.

max patch
01-14-2010, 15:25
How can it possibly be rude to set up a tent in a empty shelter? :confused::confused:


Because it might not be "empty" any more 5 hours from now. Or 5 minutes from now. You have no way of knowing.

Nean
01-14-2010, 15:57
Because it might not be "empty" any more 5 hours from now. Or 5 minutes from now. You have no way of knowing.

Just like I don't know if this is my last day or the end of the world!:confused: I don't- but I can make a darn good judgement.;)

Consider: you haven't seen a soul on the trail for 3 days, it's 10 degrees and falling, wind is howling around 40mph, and its darkthirty, and you're sharing the heat of a good looking gal.:-?

SORRY, rudeness ain't part of the equation and besides- I'm just not that stupid.:eek: Even if folks DID show up- it would ONLY be RUDE if they didn't have room and/or I didn't make room.:sun

So to answer the question---- Yes, it is ok to let loose in the woods, yet it would be rude at the dinner table. Hope this splains thangs.:rolleyes:

Toolshed
01-14-2010, 16:12
Just like I don't know if this is my last day or the end of the world!:confused: I don't- but I can make a darn good judgement.;)

Consider: you haven't seen a soul on the trail for 3 days, it's 10 degrees and falling, wind is howling around 40mph, and its darkthirty, and you're sharing the heat of a good looking gal.:-?

SORRY, rudeness ain't part of the equation and besides- I'm just not that stupid.:eek: Even if folks DID show up- it would ONLY be RUDE if they didn't have room and/or I didn't make room.:sun

So to answer the question---- Yes, it is ok to let loose in the woods, yet it would be rude at the dinner table. Hope this splains thangs.:rolleyes:
I had that happen - myself and one other hiker had the L/T to ourselves - Saw no on on the section of trail we were on for 3 days. I decided to bag out on the 3rd day close to dusk (7:30PM). He was contemplating a night alone with his journal in the L/T. About 1/2 mile from the L/T I ran into about 15 boy scouts straggling in through the rain. Now I axe you - how good would your judgement have been 5 minutes before coming upon those scouts......

ChinMusic
01-14-2010, 16:15
Because it might not be "empty" any more 5 hours from now. Or 5 minutes from now. You have no way of knowing.
Bingo.......

But, a free-standing tent can be moved rather quickly should the troops arrive. You better be prepared to move.......and move FAST.

Hyway
01-14-2010, 16:16
15 boy scouts should be expecting to tent.

Nean
01-14-2010, 16:16
uh,, I think it has been mentioned more than once here on White Blaze that the Shelters are pretty much full during season..I would say it is rude..

It's the same token as when a guy drives a F-350, has a handicap parking sticker and decides that it is ok to park in ALL the handicap parking places, just because no one else is using them...

I guess I am one who is considerate to other people and hikers..I guess on my next hike I will just be the opposite, I am going to set up my tent at !:00 in the afternoon because it is too early for anyone else to hike in.. I am going to cook, clean, **** and do all my hygenical things IN the spring.. I am also going to leave all my CRAP sitting around for others to take out..When other hikers come in I am going to tell them I have reserved the shelter and they have to find another place to sleep, and I don't care if your ancle is spranged, your not going to fix it at MY reserved shelter..IT'S MINE!!!

Yep, Vern, thats just what I am going to do..

The brush you paint with is much to broad.:eek:

One must consider that I'm not talking in season or to stop hiking in the middle of the day or staking a claim. :D

Maybe you haven't done a lot of winter hiking on the AT ?:confused:

Of course the behavior YOU are talking about would be rude Graywolf!!:)

Tinker
01-14-2010, 16:18
I have read in more than just a few journals of hikers, especially thru-hikers that set their tents up inside a shelter..What does this accomplish except for taking up space for other hikers who may need the shelter..

I really think it is inconsiderate, but the I guess thats me...But don't you think it would be wise to set the tent up out side so those who need the shelter have space...

Graywolf
Yes, it is inconsiderate.
Maybe they want to keep the floor (of their tent) clean? Maybe they don't want to walk in the rain to cook their meal?
Whatever the reason, it isn't a good one.
If they feel the three walls will keep them safe from evil beasties, they don't belong in the woods.

ChinMusic
01-14-2010, 16:19
15 boy scouts should be expecting to tent.
Everyone should be prepared for that. Why would a Boy Scout be any different than any other hiker?

Hyway
01-14-2010, 16:24
I don't know the size of the shelter Toolshed was talking about, but if it was less than a 15 person shelter then the troop leader should be expecting the kids to tent.

I have never set up a tent in a shelter, but I have been in shelters that were nearly empty all night long and I don't even hike that much. Surely many of the shelters are empty more nights than they are full. How does it hurt someone else just knowing tat somewhere out there someone has a tent set up in a near empty shelter.

Nean
01-14-2010, 16:31
I had that happen - myself and one other hiker had the L/T to ourselves - Saw no on on the section of trail we were on for 3 days. I decided to bag out on the 3rd day close to dusk (7:30PM). He was contemplating a night alone with his journal in the L/T. About 1/2 mile from the L/T I ran into about 15 boy scouts straggling in through the rain. Now I axe you - how good would your judgement have been 5 minutes before coming upon those scouts......

What time of year? Sounds like hiker " in " season if it's still not dark, at 7:30, up north.:rolleyes: I'd say chances are good someone would show up.:eek: It's still not rude unless your friend didn't make room.;)

Another example: I take up 3 spaces in the shelter if it empty or there is plenty of room. :bananaThat isn't rude is it?:o
It would be if I didn't move if someone needed the space! But you folks saying it's rude regaurdless are assuming there is no such thing as common sense--- which now that I've read your post- am leaning that way- lol!:D

Tinker
01-14-2010, 16:32
I don't know the size of the shelter Toolshed was talking about, but if it was less than a 15 person shelter then the troop leader should be expecting the kids to tent.

I have never set up a tent in a shelter, but I have been in shelters that were nearly empty all night long and I don't even hike that much. Surely many of the shelters are empty more nights than they are full. How does it hurt someone else just knowing tat somewhere out there someone has a tent set up in a near empty shelter.
The question wasn't about whether it hurt other hikers, psychologically or physically - excepting in real bad weather when incoming hikers aren't properly prepared - it was, "Is it inconsiderate.............."
Yes. It does not "consider" the "needs" of others, real or imagined, to have access to that particular shelter.
I don't sleep in shelters, so it makes absolutely no difference to me (or most other hikers), but it still is not "considerate". :)

russb
01-14-2010, 17:08
In the adirondacks of NY, the erection of tents inside leantos is prohibited by law. http://www.dec.ny.gov/regs/4081.html#12998

Lilred
01-14-2010, 17:11
Whats worse...the person who sets up a tent in a shelter or the hiker that shows up at midnite expecting to sleep in the shelter?

Which is just another way of pointing out that if you set up a tent in a shelter you have no idea if you are taking that space away from anyone.

I sleep in the woods. Ya'll do whatever.

Obviously, if I am setting up my tent in a shelter, and I am taking up all the space, then I don't set it up. This is common sense. Again, the only time it is rude to set up a tent in a shelter is if you are taking space away from someone that needs it.

TD55
01-14-2010, 17:14
Whats the big deal. Person assumes they have the shelter to them self due to season or location, size of shelter, whatever. They set up tent for drying, little extra warmth or bug protection in shelter for whatever reason. If other hikers show up and tent causes space problem, take down tent and make room.

Lilred
01-14-2010, 17:14
We hashed this out in another forum. I think the general opinion was essentially that if you are setting your tent up in a shelter and clinging to lame excuses such as it's not yet full, or the bugs were biting (Would the bugs not be thwarted if you set up your tent outside the shelter?) or you didn't want the tent to get wet in the rain, then you are generally viewed as a packsniffer or a total incompetent. (maybe we should start a poll here........

Sorry Toolshed, but I am not a total incompetent, nor am I a packsniffer. Again, the only reason to bitch about tents in a shelter is to hear yourself bitch. Common sense is all that is needed.

Lilred
01-14-2010, 17:19
Shelters give the illiterate hiker a place to scribe symbols/hieroglyphs so as to communicate with fellow hikers.

Tent's in shelters, shrink-wrapped shelters, smokers, dogs, criminals etc, etc, etc.

I believe the shelters attract more than a few people who would most likely never go on the trail. With this comes the folks who think LNT is a recreational drug.

My most unpleasant time(s) on the AT have been in proximity of a shelter. I always stealth camp and steer clear of these a$$hole infested rat resorts.


Nice,, real nice, now people who stay at shelters are a$$holes??? Hope I don't ever have the pleasure of hiking with you.

Lilred
01-14-2010, 17:24
uh,, I think it has been mentioned more than once here on White Blaze that the Shelters are pretty much full during season..I would say it is rude..

It's the same token as when a guy drives a F-350, has a handicap parking sticker and decides that it is ok to park in ALL the handicap parking places, just because no one else is using them...

I guess I am one who is considerate to other people and hikers..I guess on my next hike I will just be the opposite, I am going to set up my tent at !:00 in the afternoon because it is too early for anyone else to hike in.. I am going to cook, clean, **** and do all my hygenical things IN the spring.. I am also going to leave all my CRAP sitting around for others to take out..When other hikers come in I am going to tell them I have reserved the shelter and they have to find another place to sleep, and I don't care if your ancle is spranged, your not going to fix it at MY reserved shelter..IT'S MINE!!!

Yep, Vern, thats just what I am going to do..


Again, common sense is called for when deciding to set up in a shelter or not. Don't be such a dick

Lilred
01-14-2010, 17:30
Whats the big deal. Person assumes they have the shelter to them self due to season or location, size of shelter, whatever. They set up tent for drying, little extra warmth or bug protection in shelter for whatever reason. If other hikers show up and tent causes space problem, take down tent and make room.


Exactly. Once again, it is called common sense folks. It isn't rude or inconsiderate unless you are taking space away from someone. Taking "potential" space away from someone who isn't even there, well that's just plain silly. You can't take space away from someone that isn't there. When and if someone gets there, and you don't make room, then and only then are you being rude and inconsiderate. Jeez people, don't y'all have any common sense?

Graywolf
01-14-2010, 18:36
This has become a rediculous thread.. I wished I never brought it up..

Lone Wolf
01-14-2010, 18:54
This has become a rediculous thread.. I wished I never brought it up..

ask admin to close it or delete it

Nean
01-14-2010, 19:33
This has become a rediculous thread.. I wished I never brought it up..

Well, some of the post haven't been very well thought out but the thread itself is fair.;) The fact is tents should not be set up, or (not) moved -if it causes a problem; otherwise there is no problem!:):welcome

Johnny Thunder
01-14-2010, 20:02
I did it in the adirondaks and I'd do it again. Arrived at the lake lean-to's an hour after dark to find three (of 4) empty. Bugs were intolerable. Me and three others set up two tents in a shelter knowing that anyone who arrived would chose an empty shelter over a partially occupied one. I'd do it again. na na na na na na.

The_Saint
01-14-2010, 20:13
Please don't ever setup your tent inside a shetler if there's any thought of other people.

Nean
01-14-2010, 20:17
Please don't ever setup your tent inside a shetler if there's any thought of other people.


Please read this thread if there is any thought of don't ever.:)

Hyway
01-14-2010, 20:33
Please don't ever setup your tent inside a shetler if there's any thought of other people.

Don't set up your tent inside a sheltie either ;)

Del Q
01-15-2010, 05:08
Two occasions, early March in Pa, -27 wind chill, retarded winds, trees falling all around the shelter, tent in shelter maybe helped with SOME addl heat, amazingly cold night. Was very happy when it started getting light out so as to get moving. Icy trail.

2nd was a thru-hiker on Bear Mtn NY, skunk walking around with a hurt leg, in the am he pitched tent inside shelter, maybe smart move!

Lilred
01-15-2010, 15:38
This has become a rediculous thread.. I wished I never brought it up..

The only thing that is ridiculous is the idea that no one should ever set up a tent in a shelter. The only ridiculous thing is thinking that there is never any reason to set up a tent in a shelter. People on this thread have given several good reasons to set up a tent in a shelter. The only thing everyone agrees on, is that the tent should be moved if it takes space away from others.

This isn't a ridiculous thread. The people who say "never ever" are the ones being ridiculous. Of course, if you're one of those people who have no common sense, then yes, live by the "never, ever" rule.

BobTheBuilder
01-15-2010, 16:15
My tarp tent isn't freestanding. Can someone recommend another way to be rude at a shelter so I don't feel so left out?

ChinMusic
01-15-2010, 16:26
The only thing that is ridiculous is the idea that no one should ever set up a tent in a shelter. The only ridiculous thing is thinking that there is never any reason to set up a tent in a shelter. People on this thread have given several good reasons to set up a tent in a shelter.

I don't think "I didn't want to get my tent wet" is a legitimate reason.

DAJA
01-15-2010, 16:38
I can't see any valid reason for setting a tent up in a shelter... Your tent is your shelter.. It is designed to keep you dry and protected from the weather.. If your affraid of mice, don't stay in shelters, stay in your tent, you are carrying it after all.. Plus, setting a tent up in a shelter is pointless for warmth, as your now losing heat from the bottom as well as the sides and top..

Lilred
01-15-2010, 17:02
I can't see any valid reason for setting a tent up in a shelter... Your tent is your shelter.. It is designed to keep you dry and protected from the weather.. If your affraid of mice, don't stay in shelters, stay in your tent, you are carrying it after all.. Plus, setting a tent up in a shelter is pointless for warmth, as your now losing heat from the bottom as well as the sides and top..

Then you may want to live by the "never ever" rule. Other hikers don't have to hike your hike.

Lilred
01-15-2010, 17:04
My tarp tent isn't freestanding. Can someone recommend another way to be rude at a shelter so I don't feel so left out?

Just spread your stuff all over the shelter and don't voluntarily move it when others show up. Smoke cigarettes or pot in the shelter, especially around children. That ought to do it. Oh ya, talk incessantly on a cell phone in the shelter works too.

Lilred
01-15-2010, 17:05
Don't set up your tent inside a sheltie either ;)

True, it's too dark and it makes the sheltie very angry

max patch
01-15-2010, 17:14
My tarp tent isn't freestanding. Can someone recommend another way to be rude at a shelter so I don't feel so left out?

Screw your tent to the shelter floor. If anyone has a problem with that tell then you're practicing for when you get up to the tent platforms in New England.

TD55
01-15-2010, 17:15
If you can't see a valid reason for setting up a tent in a shelter it is because you don't know very much. You assume everyone (or perhaps demand) has high quality gear that can withstand multiple days of rain and or snow along with high winds. Being afraid or not about mice has little to do with it. As far as it being pointless in regards to warmth there is a thing called a windchill factor. Shelter walls often block the wind and hence, reduce the chill factor. A pad compensates for the lose of heat from the bottom, and not all shelters have raised floors.
This being said, I would like to publicly announce that if I am not at the shelter in question, it does not bother me if you set up your tent inside the shelter. If I am at the shelter and decide to stay, I don't care if your tent is set up as long as I have some space there also. I am clueless as to why a person 20 miles up the tail or 500 miles away in their house would object to what a hiker does in an empty shelter on the AT.

wudhipy
01-15-2010, 17:31
Wouldn"t it be a situation where maybe Mice could damage the tent?:-?

Toolshed
01-15-2010, 17:39
If you can't see a valid reason for setting up a tent in a shelter it is because you don't know very much. You assume everyone (or perhaps demand) has high quality gear that can withstand multiple days of rain and or snow along with high winds. Being afraid or not about mice has little to do with it. As far as it being pointless in regards to warmth there is a thing called a windchill factor. Shelter walls often block the wind and hence, reduce the chill factor. A pad compensates for the lose of heat from the bottom, and not all shelters have raised floors.
This being said, I would like to publicly announce that if I am not at the shelter in question, it does not bother me if you set up your tent inside the shelter. If I am at the shelter and decide to stay, I don't care if your tent is set up as long as I have some space there also. I am clueless as to why a person 20 miles up the tail or 500 miles away in their house would object to what a hiker does in an empty shelter on the AT.
Huh?? Raised floors are colder than the ground.

TD55
01-15-2010, 18:01
Huh?? Raised floors are colder than the ground.

No kidding. Point being is that a shelter that is not raised may have similar ground temp as the outdoors. One with a raised floor may have wind blowing up under the floor. You use whatever you have to compensate for the cold floor, whether you are setting up tent or not.

BobTheBuilder
01-15-2010, 18:17
Wouldn"t it be a situation where maybe Mice could damage the tent?:-?

They have their own little "mouse tents" set up under the shelter, where it is not considered rude.

Toolshed
01-15-2010, 18:21
No kidding. Point being is that a shelter that is not raised may have similar ground temp as the outdoors. One with a raised floor may have wind blowing up under the floor. You use whatever you have to compensate for the cold floor, whether you are setting up tent or not.
It was uncear as to what you were saying...

saimyoji
01-15-2010, 18:34
It was uncear as to what you were saying...


what??? i don't get it....??? :D



Lilred makes a good point......if people would just use common sense and be cool,there would be no problems....

and for those of you who can't....well.....good luck!! :)

Lilred
01-15-2010, 18:38
If you can't see a valid reason for setting up a tent in a shelter it is because you don't know very much. You assume everyone (or perhaps demand) has high quality gear that can withstand multiple days of rain and or snow along with high winds. Being afraid or not about mice has little to do with it. As far as it being pointless in regards to warmth there is a thing called a windchill factor. Shelter walls often block the wind and hence, reduce the chill factor. A pad compensates for the lose of heat from the bottom, and not all shelters have raised floors.
This being said, I would like to publicly announce that if I am not at the shelter in question, it does not bother me if you set up your tent inside the shelter. If I am at the shelter and decide to stay, I don't care if your tent is set up as long as I have some space there also. I am clueless as to why a person 20 miles up the tail or 500 miles away in their house would object to what a hiker does in an empty shelter on the AT.



AHHHHHH a voice of reason.....

Hyway
01-15-2010, 21:44
I still fail to understand how someone who has set up their sleeping bag in an near empty shelter on a rainy night where the wind changes and starts blowing rain into the shelter decides to not go out into the rain and set up his tent but sets it up where he already has his stuff spread out is being inconsiderate. The never ever idealism is pretty strange.

gunner76
01-15-2010, 22:12
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity !

Grinder
01-16-2010, 12:25
I am continually amazed by the topics that "get legs" (a lot of posts) on this forum.!!!!

Pedaling Fool
01-16-2010, 12:31
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity !
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.


--Albert Einstein




:sun

DAJA
01-16-2010, 12:37
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.


--Albert Einstein




:sun
Well done! Great quote.

superman
01-16-2010, 13:22
Yet another thread that is akin to an episode of Seinfelf.:-?

Dogwood
01-16-2010, 22:39
Pretty much always, putting up tents in AT shelters is F-ing ridiculous and it's most often experienced on the AT. I guess it's partly because few trails have as many shelter as the AT. It's also just another long list of personal reasons that I try to avoid sleeping in AT shelters.

Trying to get someone to remove their 2 person tent that took up 3 1/2 spots in a 5 person Connecticut AT shelter is the one time in my hiking life that I came the closest to getting into a fist fight while out on the trail. These people thought it fair to take up all this space w/ a tent inside the shelter because they got to the shelter first that day. There were 7 people total who looked for spots inside this shelter. I was the only one to speak up. I had to walk off to avoid a fist fight. Probably, the best idea since the man was huge, flashed his authoritaive police badge to try to intimidate me, and probably would have kicked my ass anyway!

Hyway
01-16-2010, 23:13
One time, I saw an AT thruhiker leave trash on the ground and be mean to other people. So I don't think an AT thruhikers should be on the AT.