View Full Version : Do you Trowel?
AeroGuyDC
01-13-2010, 18:09
Odd question for you guys/gals:
When no privy is available, and the you've "got one touching your underwear," do you pull out a trowel and dig a hole, do your business, and cover it up? Or do you just find a remote area to do the deed and carry on about your hike?
The reason I ask, is because in the thread about "trail annoyances" several poster's mentioned stumbling on piles of crap and toilet paper. Quite frankly, this surprised me as I thought it was common courtesy to dig a hole and then cover it all up.
What's your take?[/
DrRichardCranium
01-13-2010, 18:12
Can't you use a stick or something to dig with?
Dig a cat hole. (http://www.lnt.org/programs/principles_3.php) It's the nice thing to do.
Heel of boot, point of trekking pole, stick, etc. The possibilities are endless - and EXCITING! (ok, maybe not exciting).
AeroGuyDC
01-13-2010, 18:18
Can't you use a stick or something to dig with?
Ok, ok. I see that some people take me literally. LOL
The point is not the digging device, the point is the hole, or lack thereof. :D
Which question are you asking, do I bury waste, or do I use a trowel to bury it with?
I'm a "heel of the boot" kind of cathole digger myself, and I pack out more TP than I bury, as a rule. Sort of depends on the situation as to how prepared I am when I find the right spot.
I bought one of those bright orange trowels, we have a state park nearby where the resident ranger is adamant about what hikers have done to the privys in the park, and no one who registers for overnight gets away without the trowel question, followed by a lecture on outdoor courtesy and LNT ethics. I've never used my trowel, but I make sure he can see it sticking up out of a pocket on my pack - then I toss it back in the car on my way out of the office. It's the battles you choose to fight, I guess.
HYOH, bury your own poop.
Ranc0r
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AeroGuyDC
01-13-2010, 18:20
Dig a cat hole. (http://www.lnt.org/programs/principles_3.php) It's the nice thing to do.
I certainly agree that it's the right thing to do. That's why I was surprised to see several posters' speak of stumbling upon piles of crap and toilet paper in the "trail annoyances" thread. Of all things, this is one thing that I would have thought most people were courteous of?
Red Beard
01-13-2010, 18:21
Dig a cathole. I like using my trowel. Weighs less than two ounces, and is much faster than having to find a stick, or the heel of my boot. That's just me though. HYOH
Spirit Walker
01-13-2010, 18:23
We use a special lightweight thick aluminum tent stake to dig a hole if the ground is hard or rocky. (I broke two trowels before we found the stakes.) It can be difficult to dig deep enough with just a shoe and I try to dig the requisite 4-6 inches. On the PCT much of the soil was sand - easy to dig. In the Sierras we had our ice axes - even better.
I have frequently run into places where people didn't bury. Sometimes it's women who pee and use toilet paper, leaving it behind (as WF used to say, 'paper flowers'.) I figure that's just ignorance. Sometimes there's a pile of crap in the middle of the trail or a campsite - I figure that's not ignorance, it's malicious. In the Smokies, back when they closed all the outhouses, there was a lot of nasty stuff out behind the shelters because people wouldn't even bother trying to dig when the ground was frozen. There were dirty diapers, used sanitary napkins, etc. Really gross. They closed the outhouses because they filled up too fast with people leaving garbage behind. But without the pits garbage was left anyway, as well as the normal fill for an outhouse.
max patch
01-13-2010, 18:24
And some people actually smear it on a rock (don't let them near your gorp bag!) which is something I don't want to see or sit on.
AeroGuyDC
01-13-2010, 18:26
Which question are you asking, do I bury waste, or do I use a trowel to bury it with?
I'm a "heel of the boot" kind of cathole digger myself, and I pack out more TP than I bury, as a rule. Sort of depends on the situation as to how prepared I am when I find the right spot.
I bought one of those bright orange trowels, we have a state park nearby where the resident ranger is adamant about what hikers have done to the privys in the park, and no one who registers for overnight gets away without the trowel question, followed by a lecture on outdoor courtesy and LNT ethics. I've never used my trowel, but I make sure he can see it sticking up out of a pocket on my pack - then I toss it back in the car on my way out of the office. It's the battles you choose to fight, I guess.
HYOH, bury your own poop.
Ranc0r
.
Yep, I definitely do bury! :D
I was just surprised to see several people mention the piles of crap and toilet paper they stumbled across. I'm a newbie to the AT and i'm sure i'll see just about anything there is to see out there, but piles of crap are on the bottom of my list. Glad to hear that at least some people bury their own poop!
Nope, I'm a heel guy too. Those orange trowels look silly dangling on the outside of a pack anyway.
BTW, did you know the study of soil is called pedology?
Jester2000
01-13-2010, 18:36
I certainly agree that it's the right thing to do. That's why I was surprised to see several posters' speak of stumbling upon piles of crap and toilet paper in the "trail annoyances" thread. Of all things, this is one thing that I would have thought most people were courteous of?
I carry a trowel, because for me I find it impossible to actually dig a proper cathole with my heel, and digging with a stick takes me too long. On the PCT I used the Adze end of my Ice Axe when I was carrying it.
When I hiked in the desert in Arizona, I did this:
And some people actually smear it on a rock (don't let them near your gorp bag!) which is something I don't want to see or sit on.
. . . which is often referred to as "frosting a rock," and which is supposed to be done far from any established trail where you wouldn't see it or sit in it.
Most often when I've found unburied feces or toilet paper it's been in the Smokies (high volume with a higher % of folks ignorant of what they should be doing) or near road crossings (this I saw a few times on the PCT).
pattydivins
01-13-2010, 18:42
I enjoy showing off the large size of my poops, so I generally drop duces in the middle of the trail. I do not even bother to pull my pants up when people are coming, I just invite them to watch.
flemdawg1
01-13-2010, 18:54
I have frequently run into places where people didn't bury. Sometimes it's women who pee and use toilet paper, leaving it behind (as WF used to say, 'paper flowers'.) I figure that's just ignorance. Sometimes there's a pile of crap in the middle of the trail or a campsite - I figure that's not ignorance, it's malicious.
A couple of times before I was more thoughtful about LNT or had heard it was the proper thing to do, I'd dropped the deuce on the trail (not the AT). Now I absolutly dig a cathole (I normally use a stick or my trekking pole).
One of the big problems in the Smokies is that the more popular trails like Laurel Falls and Trillium Gap trl is just tons of people and long streches of steep sidehill trail. Without any instructions all these tourist will answer nature's call however they can.
NashvilleBiscuit
01-13-2010, 18:57
dig a hole. only a prick would leave it above ground for somebody to possibly step in. I would even consider it rude to have to look at.
Tuckahoe
01-13-2010, 19:04
Odd question for you guys/gals:
When no privy is available, and the you've "got one touching your underwear," do you pull out a trowel and dig a hole, do your business, and cover it up? Or do you just find a remote area to do the deed and carry on about your hike?
Ummm well... dont wait until you've "got one touching your underwear." that way you can properly and leisurely dig a hole.
beakerman
01-13-2010, 19:13
Well I do it backwards...only because I'm a poor aim. I typically deposit, wipe, burn, dig, slide it in then bury. I know when I do it that way I also put in a small amount of forest duff to aid in compositng.
waywardfool
01-13-2010, 19:40
I use one of these: (1 oz.)
http://www.rei.com/product/358111
Just needed to take a file and ease the edges a bit so it wouldn't be rough on the hands.
Lighter and at two bucks, even cheaper than the orange trowel. Way cheaper and lighter than the fancy yuppie trowels that REI has.
bigcranky
01-13-2010, 19:42
Buy an aluminum snow stake. It's very light, digs a fine cathole, and does double duty as a backup tent stake.
And slugger is right -- dig a hole. Please.
Lone Wolf
01-13-2010, 19:44
Odd question for you guys/gals:
When no privy is available, and the you've "got one touching your underwear," do you pull out a trowel and dig a hole, do your business, and cover it up? Or do you just find a remote area to do the deed and carry on about your hike?
The reason I ask, is because in the thread about "trail annoyances" several poster's mentioned stumbling on piles of crap and toilet paper. Quite frankly, this surprised me as I thought it was common courtesy to dig a hole and then cover it all up.
What's your take?[/
no trowel. overturn a rock or log, deposit, cover and walk on
I did buy one of those "yuppie REI trowels", but I'm planning on buying those snow stakes too. If I'm happy with the stake, the trowel will definitely stay at home.
Lone Wolf
01-13-2010, 19:51
I did buy one of those "yuppie REI trowels", but I'm planning on buying those snow stakes too. If I'm happy with the stake, the trowel will definitely stay at home.
you don't need either. plenty of "tools" in the woods
Blissful
01-13-2010, 19:52
I use the forest tools. :)
you don't need either. plenty of "tools" in the woods
Hey, no need to call names. ;)
Jack Tarlin
01-13-2010, 19:54
Gotta go with Wolf on this one.
I mean I know they don't weigh much and they come in sorta handy, but at the end of the day, the orange shovel just looks goofy, period, kinda like those turquoise-blue high-top gaiters.
I see a guy with a trowel and I smile, especially if it's past Virginia.
Evacuating one's bowels while on a hiking trip is not such an involved process that it requires gadgets or tools. :D
Seriously though, I get the trowel because if I do start a fire, I'd prefer it to be like this:
http://www.survivaltopics.com/survival/the-dakota-fire-hole/
I use the forest tools. :)
For me, that also includes a wad of leaves rather than TP that animals sometimes dig up. Personally, I have actually found leaves to work better than TP!
DragonStar
01-13-2010, 20:53
I can't find the reference right now, but 6 months back I read a pretty convincing article that said the best thing to do was to leave the "log" on the surface exposed to sunlight, that the bacteria and feces broke down much faster. His argument was that it was more sanitary. Now obviously where you are is important. He said to go 100 feet from the trail and away from any water source. If I was anywhere near a campsite/trail I would bury, but... I can see "let it shine" argument too.
Lone Wolf
01-13-2010, 20:55
I can't find the reference right now, but 6 months back I read a pretty convincing article that said the best thing to do was to leave the "log" on the surface exposed to sunlight, that the bacteria and feces broke down much faster.
i actually do that more often than not
Desert Reprobate
01-13-2010, 21:17
Dig a cat hole. (http://www.lnt.org/programs/principles_3.php) It's the nice thing to do.
How often do you have a cat around when you need one?
If I was bushwacking off trail I might leave a steamer above ground. Usually though, in the very least I would cover it with forest litter. I never go within 50 yards of a trail, and I rarely use toilet paper. On the seashore I will go well below tide level, in a remote area, or bury it well off the beach. Winter gets tricky. Important to do it remote in winter. If you poop into a plastic bag, dump the frozen turd someplace remote, but bring the the plastic bag home, or burn it some place remote. I must admit however, there is one plastic bag of turd out there with my name on it. It haunts me to this day. Don't do it.
. . . which is often referred to as "frosting a rock,"
Ace of Cakes!!!!!!!!!
I can't find the reference right now, but 6 months back I read a pretty convincing article that said the best thing to do was to leave the "log" on the surface exposed to sunlight, that the bacteria and feces broke down much faster. His argument was that it was more sanitary. Now obviously where you are is important. He said to go 100 feet from the trail and away from any water source. If I was anywhere near a campsite/trail I would bury, but... I can see "let it shine" argument too.
It's what the rest of the animal kingdom does, and I've found many dessicated turds on rocks. Since they're full of mouse bones, I assume they're not hiker turds, but you never know! Personally, I go waaay off trail, drop the bomb, and mix it into the soil with a stick before covering with duff.
I won't go above ground. I've gone rock climbing in an area where illegal immigrants frequently pass thru. Someone left a duce in that canyon and reeked it up something fierce from wall to wall of the canyon. I'd never subject other outdoor enthusiasts to that if I have other options.
Just dig the hole...unless of course there is trajectory involved in which case a trench may be necessary.
beakerman
01-14-2010, 01:56
It's what the rest of the animal kingdom does, and I've found many dessicated turds on rocks. Since they're full of mouse bones, I assume they're not hiker turds, but you never know! Personally, I go waaay off trail, drop the bomb, and mix it into the soil with a stick before covering with duff.
Those are probably owl pellets. Owls can't digest the fur and bones to they hack them back up in a nice neat pellet. I have both bought and collected owl pellets for various scout projects and just for my own kids to dissect and learn.
harryfred
01-14-2010, 03:48
How often do you have a cat around when you need one?
My wife has 7:eek:, but she would let me take them hiking:mad:.
harryfred
01-14-2010, 03:49
That was supposed to be won't not would.
I dig a cathole and bury my human waste. I have used sticks, stakes and trowels to dig the cathole. One advantage of digging with a stick--you get to leave the stick behind when you are done. If you use a trowel or a stake, you usually have to clean off at least some dirt (or other "matter") from the stake/trowel before putting it back in your pack.
I was hiking on a trail other than the AT this past summer. Right next to a fork in the trail, someone had left a potenially recordbreaking-sized "fecal deposit" above ground--accompanied by an equally impressive amount of used toilet paper (also above ground). A creek was only 30-40 feet away--downhill from the "pile" and the paper. I had previously planned on stopping and having my lunch at that fork in the trail and refilling my water bottles in the creek. I changed my mind when I saw that "masterpiece". I am constantly amazed at the inconsiderate behavior of a small minority of our fellow hikers.
chiefduffy
01-14-2010, 11:02
Being a hammocker, I often walk back into the woods near a shelter, to find a place to hang. Behind any large tree, you will see evidence of people that don't dig, for whatever reason. Disgusting!! Please dig a hole, regardless of choice of tool!!!!
- Duffy
The only place that I saw a problem with waste was at some of the camp sites and shelters down south, Tenn.& Georga, where there were no priveys.
Too many hikers and not enough room to spread the waste out.
I soon discovered that it was better to do my business up the trail away from a camp area. Go off the trail, dig a hole with your boot or a stick, deposit and cover it up.
Old Hiker
01-14-2010, 11:20
Well I do it backwards...only because I'm a poor aim. I typically deposit, wipe, burn, dig, slide it in then bury. I know when I do it that way I also put in a small amount of forest duff to aid in compositng.
I gotta ask - "burn"??
beakerman
01-14-2010, 11:44
I gotta ask - "burn"??
i burn the tp. 30 years of doing it this way and no problems yet---even during burn bans. This leaves as little paper behind as possible so if an animal does dig it up there is no paper flower.
I've been thinking about burning too, for exactly the same reason.
Smoky in TN
01-14-2010, 17:12
Been there, spread that.
I camped at 13,000 ft. in the Rockies at a place called the boulder field.
The rangers instructed us to do our "business" on a rock and smear it on, nice and thin.
I don't use the trowel. I had one break on me and cut my hand. I use my heel or a stick or rock. Rocks work best.
Once I really really had to go and there was no soil anywhere. Just tangles of plants. I swear I could not find the ground. I tried to wait until I found a place with some ground but after miles of this I couldn't wait anymore. So I balanced in the air on a log and left it in the bushes.
Once I was mad at the State of Washington and decided it deserved to be s*at upon.
Otherwise, I bury because nobody needs to see it. I hope I leave enough of a little sign (my stick or a well-placed rock) so that someone else doesn't happen to try to use my same spot.
I don't use TP. I use plants and water.
I think it's really rude when women leave TP after they pee. They don't need TP to pee. Use a little water instead.
Jester2000
01-15-2010, 14:50
I mean I know they don't weigh much and they come in sorta handy, but at the end of the day, the orange shovel just looks goofy, period, kinda like those turquoise-blue high-top gaiters.
I see a guy with a trowel and I smile, especially if it's past Virginia.
Fortunately for me, on my thru-hike Jack was ahead of me from Atkins on.
I can't find the reference right now, but 6 months back I read a pretty convincing article that said the best thing to do was to leave the "log" on the surface exposed to sunlight, that the bacteria and feces broke down much faster. His argument was that it was more sanitary. Now obviously where you are is important. He said to go 100 feet from the trail and away from any water source. If I was anywhere near a campsite/trail I would bury, but... I can see "let it shine" argument too.
Maybe. I suspect that this may have been an article about what is best in certain places, such as the desert. Otherwise I suspect that the author was full of what he was writing about.
If you use a trowel or a stake, you usually have to clean off at least some dirt (or other "matter") from the stake/trowel before putting it back in your pack. . .
"Other 'matter'"?!? If you've got "other matter" on your trowel, I think you're using it incorrectly.
Been there, spread that.
I camped at 13,000 ft. in the Rockies at a place called the boulder field.
The rangers instructed us to do our "business" on a rock and smear it on, nice and thin.
Must have been a while ago. There has been two privies (one at treeline, one at the Boulder Field) for at least 10+ yrs now. :)
Smearing and burning TP is becoming old hat. In fragile areas (desert and alpine mainly), the officials are advocating blue-bagging for at least the tp (Canyonlands for example. Still kosher to bury the poo) or even to carry everything out (Whitney). Many places strongly urge you to NOT burn the TP. (Just ask any SoCal-based ranger! :O)
In a biologically diverse area like most of the AT...dig a whole ,drop a load, cover up. :)
Our group all carries the orange shovels and cat holes. The worst was when we had to cat hole extra beans we could not give away on our secton on the AT.
Doooglas
01-18-2010, 10:29
If you eat a little corn with every meal the rodents will get rid of it before sun up.
owlbebak
03-08-2010, 20:39
Could this be a new solution to sanitation in the backcountry? It looks interesting.
http://www.peepoople.com/
Mrs Baggins
03-08-2010, 21:02
Digging a cat hole may be the "right thing" to do but with the diet and exercise stresses of hiking some times there is just NO time to dig a hole. There's barely time to get the pants undone and squat!! I try to dash as far off the trail as I can before there's a terrible "accident" - - I love Snickers Charged bars and they seem to encourage very fast frantic trips off the trail.
Jester2000
03-08-2010, 21:34
Our group all carries the orange shovels and cat holes. The worst was when we had to cat hole extra beans we could not give away on our secton on the AT.
Why on earth did they have to be cat holed?
Mountain Wildman
03-08-2010, 21:36
http://www.maracing.com/family/garage/jackhammer.gifIt's a little heavy but makes digging a cat hole so much easier!!! :-)
On my last trip I cat holed into a burrow. I left some subterranean creature with a big ol nutty treat.
Jonnycat
03-09-2010, 17:15
Digging a cat hole may be the "right thing" to do but with the diet and exercise stresses of hiking some times there is just NO time to dig a hole. There's barely time to get the pants undone and squat!! I try to dash as far off the trail as I can before there's a terrible "accident"..
There is absolutely *NO* excuse for not properly burying your solid waste. None.
If you have to go that bad, at least have the decency to dig a hole and bury it after the fact.
In a perfect world, people who leave their **** out in the open would be forced to eat it.
As to the topic, I carry an aluminum tent snow stake (this one: http://www.rei.com/product/358111) on the outside of my pack to use as my digger.
On a trip in the Flat Tops of Colorado we found the scapula of an elk near our base camp and used that as our cat hole digger, made me feel all caveman-like.
Normally I just kick a hole with my shoe, but that trip was memorable.
Jonnycat
03-09-2010, 17:48
Normally I just kick a hole with my shoe, but that trip was memorable.
That's pretty impressive if you can dig a four to six inch hole with your shoe, day in and day out, in all types of ground.
You must have really pointy shoes and only hike in country with really soft ground.
johnnybgood
03-09-2010, 18:58
There is absolutely *NO* excuse for not properly burying your solid waste. None.
If you have to go that bad, at least have the decency to dig a hole and bury it after the fact.
In a perfect world, people who leave their **** out in the open would be forced to eat it.
As to the topic, I carry an aluminum tent snow stake (this one: http://www.rei.com/product/358111) on the outside of my pack to use as my digger.
Thats a great idea . How did the weight compare with the hikers' trowel ?
I usually start looking for a "digging tool ' , i.e. a pointed rock , a hard wood before I go.
scottdennis
03-09-2010, 19:30
I kind of like troweling! I sometimes go out in my backyard and trowel.
That's pretty impressive if you can dig a four to six inch hole with your shoe, day in and day out, in all types of ground.
You must have really pointy shoes and only hike in country with really soft ground.
Correct on all counts. Or I just use my heel if I forget to wear my special pointy-toed boots.
I did also once take a crap in a chipmunk hole after it tried to steal my food. Took a fair amount of aiming, let me tell you!
Boot toe or heel or stick digs a hole 6" deep (in the woods). No trowel necessary.
Seriously though, I get the trowel because if I do start a fire, I'd prefer it to be like this:
http://www.survivaltopics.com/survival/the-dakota-fire-hole/
Was that guy actually COOKING a turd!:bananaI'll never look at the dancing bannana the same way again.
Was that guy actually COOKING a turd!:bananaI'll never look at the dancing bannana the same way again.
I shall not say, but is this one an example of how to help a constipated hiking partner?
http://www.survivaltopics.com/blog-images/dakota-firehole-air-channel.jpg
Jonnycat
03-10-2010, 16:20
Thats a great idea . How did the weight compare with the hikers' trowel ?
It weights 30 grams (about an ounce), which is a lot lighter than a metal trowel.
As for the cheap plastic trowel (REI et al), I don't know how much they weigh, because I have never owned one. Metal is the only thing that would work in the type of ground I sometimes have to dig my hole in (rocky and rooty).