View Full Version : My best boil times to date
Stoviegal
01-14-2010, 10:55
So far my best boil times have been achieve with a combination of zelph's cat stove and oops tiki cat stove.
Rolling boilings at 4 min the first time second time I did it I had rolling boil at 4.30 mins.
white_russian
01-14-2010, 11:06
What was the starting water and equipment temperatures? Air temperature as well? 4 minutes without details means nothing.
Stoviegal
01-14-2010, 11:46
I guess it will continue to mean only something to me, as this wasn't a scientific experiment. :( I ran water from my tap and temp indoors about 60F. Doors were open, cool wind blowing through kitchen, temp outside about 40 F.
I don't have equipment to take the kinds of measurements you are requesting. Take it for what it is, a gal just having some fun with her new toy. Just pass this thread on by if you want results from someone more capable of precise calculations. Don't be hating. :D
white_russian
01-14-2010, 11:53
You don't have basic thermometers?
W.R.
Lighten up dude. Stoves are fun.
I'm another one who doesn't get scientific. S.G.'s results are pretty good.I have trouble getting below 5min. to a rolling boil myself. Again, tap water and 50 or so outside chilly inside this Florida boy's house.
But, I refuse to use a pot holder and side burners seem to take longer (or hog fuel).
I recently tried the 3gm stove that Skidsteer played with last year. I (of course <G>) took a few liberties with the design, which may be part of the problem, but I can't get a boil with an oz. of fuel.
I remember HOI's set up with a pot holder and a candle tin but don't remember his boil times.
Stoviegal
01-14-2010, 13:22
Thanks, Grinder,
You saved me from myself. :)
What was the starting water and equipment temperatures? Air temperature as well? 4 minutes without details means nothing.
We also need altitude and type of water (Hard, soft, distilled) :sun
Stoviegal
01-14-2010, 15:12
We also need altitude and type of water (Hard, soft, distilled) :sun
That's coming right up. Hold breath. :D
I've been playing around with Super Cat stoves lately. Some have burned as long as 14 minutes and as little as 8 with 1 ounce of fuel (inside no wind test). Can't seem to get the right hole pattern down.
Anyone have a favorite pattern that consistently works best for them?
All sorts of options with wicks and stainless steel baffle inserts too but that's another topic......
Stoviegal
01-14-2010, 15:30
The super cat has been so finicky for me, it's name is so right on. Sometimes I get a time under 6 min sometimes 8 min using an 8 8 hole patern, or 6, 6 hole pattern. I use the same size hole punches for both cans. I found a two inch reach hole punch on Amazon, pretty cool item, but the holes are quite large, compared to reg punch, when in fact, I thought I was getting one with much smaller holes punch capabilities. It worked out in the end.
It seems to matter how much ait gets in from below, so sometimes I try to make sure there's a bit of space between the surface and the bottom of the bigger can. I do like the super cat regardless, because I know I'll always get a boil one way or another. Generally I use 3/4 oz fuel, sometimes more or less, but usual under an ounce.
Last night I had been working with a found item from a thrift store. I'm able to use three stoves with it. So, if I run out of fuel before reaching a boil, I can slide my pot over to another burner. Weeeee.
At some point I'll take some pics of my thrify finds that I've manage to put to use with my stoves.
Stoviegal
01-14-2010, 15:33
Oh forgot to mention, that last night, I made the, boil in a bag rice, using the three burner.
atraildreamer
01-14-2010, 19:53
I guess it will continue to mean only something to me, as this wasn't a scientific experiment. :( I ran water from my tap and temp indoors about 60F. Doors were open, cool wind blowing through kitchen, temp outside about 40 F.
I don't have equipment to take the kinds of measurements you are requesting. Take it for what it is, a gal just having some fun with her new toy. Just pass this thread on by if you want results from someone more capable of precise calculations. Don't be hating. :D
My own humble (ahem :rolleyes:) contribution to "stovie" madness! :D:banana
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19616
b
Stoviegal
01-14-2010, 20:25
Now I remember why I didn't do it scientifically. :D I read that artical last week.
Next time, I'll just name this thread, "Ditzy gal boils some water, NON SCIENTIFIC RESULTS".
Stoviegal
01-14-2010, 23:30
Stokes, I wanted to clear something up. The hole punch pattern I gave was for the snow cat stove, there are so many variations of the super cat and I just realized you might be scratching your head when I gave a description for two cans. The snow cat is just an easier version to use outdoors, but for me gives similar times to the regular cat stove.
I generally punch 20 holes on the top and bottom of the regular cat can stove. But I was looking at a vid and a guy just had a 16 hole top row and 8 hole bottom row and seem to get a nice burn pattern under his pot. He didn't give a boil time though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izDn4LB4s8I&feature=related
and here's what the snow cat looks like, keep in mind this guy was boiling a quart of water. I use a cat food can for the inner fuel holder can and any tuna sized can for the outer can
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1ICvtsd7SM
I
Stoviegal
01-14-2010, 23:34
Sorry, I meant Spokes
Have you tried this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBCAvQn6vHM&feature=related) one?
Stoviegal
01-15-2010, 01:56
Hi Connie,
When I first started watching stove making videos, I think that was the second video I saw on utube. Will have to try that size can again and see what results I get.
Thanks for sharing.
Think I better go to bed now before I burn the place down. These stoves are taking up way too much of my beauty sleep time. :o
atraildreamer
01-15-2010, 11:28
Now I remember why I didn't do it scientifically. :D I read that artical last week.
Next time, I'll just name this thread, "Ditzy gal boils some water, NON SCIENTIFIC RESULTS".
I admit that the testing method in the article is a bit involved.:eek: It came about by reading a LOT of posts regarding stove tests that drove me to near madness by being vague about the amount of water and fuel used, temperatures involved, weather conditions, etc. :confused:
I wanted a relatively inexpensive and reproducible method of testing a stove system that would allow for optimizing the performance by changing some of the variables: amount of water, amount and type of fuel, type of pot, etc.
The method described in the article would also allow for comparing the performance and efficiency of different stoves based on the amount and type of fuel used in the test(s).
My conclusion...find a system that works for you and stick to it.
(Oh, BTW ... welcome to the ranks of homemade stove building...madness will soon follow! :welcome:banana)
Stokes, I wanted to clear something up. The hole punch pattern I gave was for the snow cat stove, there are so many variations of the super cat and I just realized you might be scratching your head when I gave a description for two cans. The snow cat is just an easier version to use outdoors, but for me gives similar times to the regular cat stove.
I generally punch 20 holes on the top and bottom of the regular cat can stove. But I was looking at a vid and a guy just had a 16 hole top row and 8 hole bottom row and seem to get a nice burn pattern under his pot. He didn't give a boil time though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izDn4LB4s8I&feature=related
and here's what the snow cat looks like, keep in mind this guy was boiling a quart of water. I use a cat food can for the inner fuel holder can and any tuna sized can for the outer can
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1ICvtsd7SM
I
No problem Stoviegal, I thought that's what you meant to say. Golly, seems like we're watching a lot of the same YouTube vid's and reading the same stove building articles.
I go through phases. I'll start building a certain design (like a hundred of them) and try to improve or tweak it with every build. It's amazing how one little modification will impact flame pattern or burn times. Guess that's all part of the fun.
Didn't you say you're trying to get some pictures or YouTube videos posted of all your stoves? Can't wait to check them out.........
Stoviegal
01-15-2010, 12:51
Hi again Spokes,
I will try to get some pics up next month, when I become a donating member, I'm kind of spent for this month. I have a camping trip at the end of this month been stocking up on all kinds of unnecessaries and then some. Will be testing some stoves out on my trip. As far as utube posting I haven't figured out how to use that function of my camera yet.
I just came back in from testing my my snow cat stove. Boy it's still feels like it's below 30F out there. My outdoor time, with wind blowing, was just under six minutes, 5.52 to be more exact using tap water that had sat outside for about 30 minutes. I think that's a rather good time for outdoors. I have no plans to be out in weather less than 40 F, though its 50 at the moment. I'm not that adventurous.
Stoviegal
01-15-2010, 13:01
[QUOTE=
My conclusion...find a system that works for you and stick to it.
(Oh, BTW ... welcome to the ranks of homemade stove building...madness will soon follow! :welcome:banana)[/QUOTE]
Traildreamer,
Thank you for the welcome. You did excellent work with the testing, of course it's just way over my head, so I'll certainly be sticking with your advice to find and use what works best for me.
Hoping all your trail dreams come true. :)
I think the most helpful comparison at YouTube is the boil time of 2 cups 50 degree "tap water" and then, what temperature it is in the immediate area, whether the kitchen, the garage, or outside and showing the amount of fuel used.
However, their rolling boil is imprecise.
The person removes the lid and then say, "See, it's boiling".
That is so frustrating. It was steaming a lot with the lid on.
I do think that Snow clams can stove is reallllly hot and fast.
I don't see the plans for zelph's cat stove and oops tiki cat stove over at bplite. I looked around.
Stoviegal
01-15-2010, 14:45
Links to Zelph and oops stoves on bplite
Zelphs cat stove
http://www.bplite.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=105 (http://www.bplite.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=105)
Oops take
http://www.bplite.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=1159 (http://www.bplite.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=1159)
Below is the link to oops video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCc1oR0w-CU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCc1oR0w-CU)
Hope this helps
After a few more test today, I think I'm sticking with the snowcat stove for outdoors mostly. It did a great job. I tested my copycat of Zelph's starlyte outside and I like that as well, though slower outdoors, boiled at about 8.30 minutes, I do like the saftey factor. I'm sure there were factors that could change the time in either direction. There really isn't any exact science to time factor with these stoves, everything is relative.
Stoviegal
01-15-2010, 14:49
btw, my testing was done outdoors in 50 F temps, (felt more like 30 F,) using tap water.
Thanks for the links SG. I really like the concept of wicking material sandwiched between an inner and outer stove wall. Lots of possibilities.
Now if I can only get a consistent, long, slow, burn time.....
Thank you! I'm glad you didn't say,
That's coming right up. Hold breath. :D
Bags4266
01-15-2010, 15:12
I like making stoves also. My bottom line on a stove, if I can't boil 2 cups with a 1/2 oz of fuel its not for me. I don't care if it takes 15 min or 30 seconds. It needs to boil after that its all a waste, I don't simmer.
I like making stoves also. My bottom line on a stove, if I can't boil 2 cups with a 1/2 oz of fuel its not for me. I don't care if it takes 15 min or 30 seconds. It needs to boil after that its all a waste, I don't simmer.
Agree. Simmering is overrated.
Stoviegal
01-15-2010, 17:18
Spokes,
You might want to try this one too. Credit goes to Zelph. I just finished testing my version and got good results indoors just under 6 minutes, will test outdoors tomorrow.
http://www.freewebs.com/jasonklass/fiberglassclothstove.htm
Stoviegal
01-15-2010, 23:53
Thank you! I'm glad you didn't say,
OMG! I just realized what that sounds like.
I've been playing around with Super Cat stoves lately. Some have burned as long as 14 minutes and as little as 8 with 1 ounce of fuel (inside no wind test). Can't seem to get the right hole pattern down.
Anyone have a favorite pattern that consistently works best for them?
All sorts of options with wicks and stainless steel baffle inserts too but that's another topic......
The fastest Supercat stove I've made had 13 holes directly above each other (26 total). The science is simple - the more air that gets to the fuel the faster (and hotter) it will burn. I could usually boil 2 cups of cool tap water with 1/2 oz. fuel in about 4:45 with an air temp. around 50 or so. Cold slows everything down. Any fewer holes and the stove is cooler, resulting in longer burn times but longer boil times.
Eight holes (x2 rows) is ridiculously slow, and sometimes goes out when you put the pot on (especially in cool weather).
As long as you have enough aluminum left in the cat food can to hold your pot up, you can't go wrong with trying to increase the # of holes. By not staggering the holes you have a stronger stove.
I tried wicks in my stoves but concluded that they add to the weight more than anything else. In cold weather I carry a small square of fiberglass insulation that I put under the stove, which I then place on an aluminum (made from a pie plate) reflector which I then put on a table, shelter floor, or the ground. Snow, obviously, would mess up just about all aspects of this system.
Below 20 degrees, I still find it is better to use a different fuel.
Tinker, very informative. Thanks.
SG, thanks for the other stove design. I found Jason's site not long ago. Interesting.
Where do you find the best selection of "wedding tins"? I've looked at Michaels and the Dollar Store but no luck.
The science is simple - the more air that gets to the fuel the faster (and hotter) it will burn.
I believe the science to be - the more surface of the can exposed to flame, the hotter the can and the faster the fuel is evaporated. More holes, more surface area exposed.
Stoviegal
01-16-2010, 12:43
Tinker, very informative. Thanks.
SG, thanks for the other stove design. I found Jason's site not long ago. Interesting.
Where do you find the best selection of "wedding tins"? I've looked at Michaels and the Dollar Store but no luck.
I found a link to a Canadian site that was mailing them out for free for a limited time. I will see if I can find the store link. they may not mail free at this time, but they do ship fast.
Stoviegal
01-16-2010, 12:50
I found a link to a Canadian site that was mailing them out for free for a limited time. I will see if I can find the store link. they may not mail free at this time, but they do ship fast.
Found it. They do have a glass top, I just put a piece of plastic over it and it breaks out easily with a solid tap with a heavy item.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=44948&cat=1,43326
You can also find wedding tins on ebay, but I placed an order for some and its taking forever to get those. I'll stick with the Leevalley for now.
I believe the science to be - the more surface of the can exposed to flame, the hotter the can and the faster the fuel is evaporated. More holes, more surface area exposed.
True, but in addition to your observation, if the surface area of the fuel can be increased the air to fuel ratio will be also, one reason that the big catfood cans are inefficient - they actually allow the fuel to be burned too quickly and uncontrolled, with the flames going up the outside of the pot instead of underneath, being lost to the air rather than applied to the contents of the pot. Lots of holes in the small cans allows lots of air to mix with a limited amount of vaporized fuel.
Carburetion (mixing the air and fuel) is what I was talking about.
I guess it isn't all that simple. :o
If it was, we'd all have it figured out already.
The bottom line is that alcohol, in its most efficient use, cannot burn as hot as petroleum based fuels.
Alcohol stoves save you weight in the form of a lighter stove and fuel container (soda bottles are most popular - and mini Platypus containers).
Other stoves may be more convienient and hotter, but, to date, cannot be made as light as alcohol stoves (wood burning stoves excepted due to not having to carry fuel).
Found it. They do have a glass top, I just put a piece of plastic over it and it breaks out easily with a solid tap with a heavy item.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=44948&cat=1,43326
You can also find wedding tins on ebay, but I placed an order for some and its taking forever to get those. I'll stick with the Leevalley for now.
This is a big help- thanks!
Stoviegal
01-16-2010, 16:03
This is a big help- thanks!
You're quite welcome.
btw, I just made a hamburger using my version of the stove that I gave you the link where Glass made a copy of Zelph's stove. That was a mouth full. It cooked fully in about 8.20 minutes or so. I kept hereing these things are mostly good for just boiling water, so since I was about to make a burger, I thought heck, why not give one of my alcohol stoves a try. Glad I did. :D
I've baked brownies on an old Pepsi can double wall (Trangia style) stove with a simmer cap. I got something like 20 min. from 1 oz. of alcohol.
I got the idea from Brawny's website. (For those of you who don't know who she is, she was one of the early pushers of ultralight hiking and had her website, I think it was www.dancinglight (http://www.dancinglight) gear.com.
Here's a working link to the history of her now closed business and her hikes (along with her partner). I met her on the AT in 200something in Maine. (Probably 2002 or 2003.
http://www.trailquest.net/
Stoviegal
01-17-2010, 11:32
I've baked brownies on an old Pepsi can double wall (Trangia style) stove with a simmer cap. I got something like 20 min. from 1 oz. of alcohol.
I got the idea from Brawny's website. (For those of you who don't know who she is, she was one of the early pushers of ultralight hiking and had her website, I think it was www.dancinglight (http://www.dancinglight) gear.com.
Tinker, thanks for the link to Brawny's site. What an interesting person she is. Good reading.
As far as the pepsie stoves and similar kinds, I've not had much luck with them. I'm sure it has much to do with my inability (or my sub consious wanting to keep me safe from myself), to construct them properly. Plus, I feel safer using non pressurized stoves. If you were to see my routine before I lite the stove, you'd think I was giving a fire safety class. :o
Stoviegal
01-17-2010, 12:33
Let's see if I can upload a few pics of my goodies.
Stoviegal
01-17-2010, 12:45
More shots of my toys
Stoviegal
01-17-2010, 13:07
More shots of same stoves pots and stands I use
More shots of my toys
Good job SG!
Looks like that one stove (on the left, under the tangerine can) has fiberglass cloth folded and placed underneath the top lid of a wedding tin lid with the glass removed(?). How does that one perform?
Stoviegal
01-17-2010, 14:25
Good job SG!
Looks like that one stove (on the left, under the tangerine can) has fiberglass cloth folded and placed underneath the top lid of a wedding tin lid with the glass removed(?). How does that one perform?
That one is a copy of Zelph's starlyte stove, it performs quite well, not the fastest, but I like it because it's one of the safest; I'm liking it more and more for that factor. I get a full boil at about 8 min. I'll have to do a retest on it. I did use it the night I boiled rice and it worked great. I didn't make it with the fire protector cloth that some suggested, I just some yellow insulation under the fiberglass cloth, as it was what I had on hand. Some I use the metal screen over the cloth, some I don't. So far, I'm very happy with Zelph's designs and with my various cat stoves.
Stoviegal,
That is the Starlyte without the built-in pot stand?
Tinker, The bottom line is that alcohol, in its most efficient use, cannot burn as hot as petroleum based fuels.
Alcohol stoves save you weight in the form of a lighter stove and fuel container (soda bottles are most popular - and mini Platypus containers).
Other stoves may be more convienient and hotter, but, to date, cannot be made as light as alcohol stoves (wood burning stoves excepted due to not having to carry fuel).Zelph has a 1 oz white gas Super Stove.
I don't think anyone had that before.
Stoviegal
01-18-2010, 12:01
Stoviegal,
That is the Starlyte without the built-in pot stand?
Zelph has a 1 oz white gas Super Stove.
I don't think anyone had that before.
Yes Connie, the stove on the left and the stove on the right are both my versions of Zelph's Starlyte Stove. Original can be found here: http://www.bplite.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=714&sid=20ac998b8685eafab16a4fbc15a53fbf