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energy_turtle
01-18-2010, 18:22
Three buddies and I decided weeks ago to do Dicks Creek Gap to Unicoi Gap this past weekend (see where this is going?) Friday night the weather was fantastic...very clear and dry conditions meant the first morning I've ever woken up in a truly bone dry tent in GA. We got a good start Saturday morning amid a hazy sky. Around Sassafras Gap a little mist began to fall, but nothing could dampen our spirits...we were headed to Tray Mtn Shelter after all and if the bottom fell out we could use that instead of the tent areas. We continued on while the sky grew darker and the precipitation brought out our rain gear (note: holy moly I love my REI Shuksan with eVent). We finally hit the side trail to the shelter at 3:30...only to find it crawling with Boy Scouts. It seems most of them forgot their "Be Prepared" motto.

We pitched camp in the steady rain, too tired and unwilling to forge on the final 5.6 miles over Tray and Rocky in the dark and in quickly deteriorating conditions. As the weather continued to get worse, I told the group there was no way I was even attempting to cook dinner in the monsoon and I went to my tent at an unprecedented 7pm to try and salvage whatever dryness I could. There was simply no escape. Before long the bottom of my SD Baku 1 began to absorb water, and wind forced water into my vents which I had to close as well. Know what happens when you do that in 100% humidity? I thought you did. I created my own little rain event inside by continuing to breathe. My sleeping bag (thankfully NOT down) became damp on the outside. Water dripped into the channels of my inflatable sleeping pad and ran the length of the pad under my bag. Every time I shifted around a bit, I became a little wetter. By 7am my entire tent had standing water in it. Everything...soaked. My pack, perched carefully over two tree branches straps-down with pack cover cinched over it, also wet. Never once did the rain subside all night, with temps dropping below 40 and gale force winds howling against the mountain face. There we were, just below the summit of Tray Mountain in absolutely horrendous conditions and quietly questioning our sanity.

Sunday morning brought no relief, as we packed up our thoroughly soaked and muddied gear and put on wet clothes and tried to keep moving to stave off hypothermia. We soldiered on through abysmal hiking conditions...pouring rain and cold wind, trails soaked with 12+ hours of nonstop rain, every step requiring even greater caution. We made it to Unicoi by 11:30, more tired and deflated than we've ever been after a hike. Gear cleanup at home last night could only be described as an unmitigated disaster.

To the other brave (stupid?) hikers we passed this weekend...hope you made it home in good shape.

Slo-go'en
01-18-2010, 18:30
Sounds like loads of fun :rolleyes:
remeber, what doesn't kill ya, just makes you more miserable.

I saw all that rain going north and felt sorry for who ever might be out in it. We only got a couple of inches of wet snow out the deal here over night.

Thrasher
01-18-2010, 18:35
I went out near neels gap this weekend for an overnighter. I was expecting rain so I tented at slaughter creek campsite, stayed fairly dry and had a great time hiking in the rain the next morning. I did cook breakfast in blood mountain shelter though at about 10. It was very muddy under my tent though after the entire night of rain.

Chaco Taco
01-18-2010, 18:36
Hey it may have been miserable, but did you pay attention to what was going on so you could remember what not to do? Thats the real question. Took me a few times but i learned the hard way

Pedaling Fool
01-18-2010, 18:37
Conditions like that create the most miserable hikes, but the best memories.

Ender
01-18-2010, 18:42
Conditions like that create the most miserable hikes, but the best memories.

That is the honest truth. My best memories involve me being miserable. Odd...

Phreak
01-18-2010, 18:44
It seems most of them forgot their "Be Prepared" motto.What were they not prepared for? Just curious...

HeartWalker
01-18-2010, 18:46
Same deal here. We went from Springer to Woody Gap . First night at Hawks Nest shelter was wonderful but Sat was miserable as I ended up tenting at Gooch. Got up Sunday soaked didn't even cook breakfast and hiked out to Woody gap. Rain sucks when you are backpacking.

Skidsteer
01-18-2010, 18:51
Sounds like you need a different tent, energy_turtle.

mikec
01-18-2010, 18:54
If I have a weekend trip planned and I see rain in the forecast, I usually cancel. Now, when you are doing a long section like I did last summer in MA-VT-NH and it rains just about every day, you are locked in. But, then again, it's a learning experience.

Chaco Taco
01-18-2010, 19:07
Same deal here. We went from Springer to Woody Gap . First night at Hawks Nest shelter was wonderful but Sat was miserable as I ended up tenting at Gooch. Got up Sunday soaked didn't even cook breakfast and hiked out to Woody gap. Rain sucks when you are backpacking.

But if you have the right set up and can use it the right way, rain can just be an inconvenience and you could still enjoy the hike. I went out in November and it rained for a day and a half. I just made sure I kept my stuff dry. When i got to my destination I had to wait 3 hours for a ride. It was cold and it was slightly wet but having that spare clothing burried in my sleeping bag was awesome! Nice and dry!

Chaco Taco
01-18-2010, 19:08
Sounds like you need a different tent, energy_turtle.

no doubt........

Chaco Taco
01-18-2010, 19:09
But, then again, it's a learning experience.

...........................

Hosaphone
01-18-2010, 19:10
Sounds like you need a different tent, energy_turtle.

Or maybe just better site selection and a footprint...

Hosaphone
01-18-2010, 19:13
This reminds me of a time at boy scout camp.... I was camping in a cheap little popup tent that was really only suited for camping out in the living room. It rained nonstop for the entire week. Of course I had pitched on a little indent in the group, where countless other boy scouts probably had also pitched tents. I distinctly remember waking up floating on my air mattress :p I had a good 2 inches of water in the tent. I had to bail it out before I could pick it up and move it.

Chaco Taco
01-18-2010, 19:13
Three buddies and I decided weeks ago to do Dicks Creek Gap to Unicoi Gap this past weekend (see where this is going?) Friday night the weather was fantastic...very clear and dry conditions meant the first morning I've ever woken up in a truly bone dry tent in GA. We got a good start Saturday morning amid a hazy sky. Around Sassafras Gap a little mist began to fall, but nothing could dampen our spirits...we were headed to Tray Mtn Shelter after all and if the bottom fell out we could use that instead of the tent areas. We continued on while the sky grew darker and the precipitation brought out our rain gear (note: holy moly I love my REI Shuksan with eVent). We finally hit the side trail to the shelter at 3:30...only to find it crawling with Boy Scouts. It seems most of them forgot their "Be Prepared" motto.

We pitched camp in the steady rain, too tired and unwilling to forge on the final 5.6 miles over Tray and Rocky in the dark and in quickly deteriorating conditions. As the weather continued to get worse, I told the group there was no way I was even attempting to cook dinner in the monsoon and I went to my tent at an unprecedented 7pm to try and salvage whatever dryness I could. There was simply no escape. Before long the bottom of my SD Baku 1 began to absorb water, and wind forced water into my vents which I had to close as well. Know what happens when you do that in 100% humidity? I thought you did. I created my own little rain event inside by continuing to breathe. My sleeping bag (thankfully NOT down) became damp on the outside. Water dripped into the channels of my inflatable sleeping pad and ran the length of the pad under my bag. Every time I shifted around a bit, I became a little wetter. By 7am my entire tent had standing water in it. Everything...soaked. My pack, perched carefully over two tree branches straps-down with pack cover cinched over it, also wet. Never once did the rain subside all night, with temps dropping below 40 and gale force winds howling against the mountain face. There we were, just below the summit of Tray Mountain in absolutely horrendous conditions and quietly questioning our sanity.

Sunday morning brought no relief, as we packed up our thoroughly soaked and muddied gear and put on wet clothes and tried to keep moving to stave off hypothermia. We soldiered on through abysmal hiking conditions...pouring rain and cold wind, trails soaked with 12+ hours of nonstop rain, every step requiring even greater caution. We made it to Unicoi by 11:30, more tired and deflated than we've ever been after a hike. Gear cleanup at home last night could only be described as an unmitigated disaster.

To the other brave (stupid?) hikers we passed this weekend...hope you made it home in good shape.


The real question here is when are you going back out???;):D:D

Hosaphone
01-18-2010, 19:14
"indent in the GROUND". Depression in the ground, whatever. you get the picture.

Chaco Taco
01-18-2010, 19:15
This reminds me of a time at boy scout camp.... I was camping in a cheap little popup tent that was really only suited for camping out in the living room. It rained nonstop for the entire week. Of course I had pitched on a little indent in the group, where countless other boy scouts probably had also pitched tents. I distinctly remember waking up floating on my air mattress :p I had a good 2 inches of water in the tent. I had to bail it out before I could pick it up and move it.

Boy Scout Jamborree when I was 10. I slept on a sponge! Rained from the second we got there, til the second we left. Still, awesome weekend with my dad!

Hikerhead
01-18-2010, 19:21
Conditions like that create the most miserable hikes, but the best memories.

I agree I agree.

Skidsteer
01-18-2010, 19:26
Or maybe just better site selection and a footprint...

No doubt site selection can make a huge difference but there is a reason that tent model is on clearance everywhere you look.



I have to tell you this is the worst tent I have ever owned. The condensation was amazing. It looked like it rained inside the tent! My down bag and everything in the tent was soaking wet by morning. It was properly vented - both end vents open and the side window. The vestibule was closed with my pack inside - which also got wet. I spent the whole night sleepless. Every time I turned I'd hit the side of the tent and it literally rained on me.
I absolutely would not recommend this tent to anyone. Set up was ok but with one fly you can't pull the vestibule too tight or the tent leans over - even staked in all 4 corners. I did not guy it out as it wasn't necessary. Sorry, this is the worst performing tent I have ever tried


http://www.trailspace.com/gear/sierra-designs/baku-1/review/14510/

ed bell
01-18-2010, 19:33
Sounds like you need a different tent, energy_turtle.A large community tarp (8x10 or larger)would have helped as well for cooking and gear storage.

AUhiker90
01-18-2010, 19:40
Thats my kind of weekend.

Blissful
01-18-2010, 19:41
Good to go through these things to see what works and what doesn't. The end result is, will you go out again (though maybe learning a few things)? If so, you've made a huge leap into hikerdom.

bigben
01-18-2010, 20:12
That's exactly why my tent is a Hubba Hubba. Yeah, with footprint and extra stakes, it's close to 5lbs, but I can set it up fly first, get under the fly and set the tent up, keeping the whole thing pretty dry. Condensation is a non-issue, it's more than big enough for me and my pack, and I can boil water and cook in the vestibule if I need to. Oh yeah, it's weatherproof as hell. I've been in your shoes, sleeping under a tarp. And in a POS pup tent, with puddles in it. But that's why I don't look to save weight in the tent department, because that next morning, we all would answer hell yes if asked would you have rather carried 2 more pounds all day or be wet and cold now?

tagg
01-18-2010, 22:18
Know what happens when you do that in 100% humidity? I thought you did. I created my own little rain event inside by continuing to breathe.

Sorry you had such a miserable trip, but thanks for the report - that was hilarious.

DAJA
01-18-2010, 22:42
Sounds like a complete breakdown in your entire system... Re-evaluate your gear and how you used it... Adjust and try again... This is what it's all about!!!

ed bell
01-18-2010, 22:56
Worst....weekend.....EVER stories are part of the entire deal. I love 'em. Good stuff!

Mud__Bone
01-18-2010, 22:56
yoiks and away :P

letmebefreee
01-18-2010, 23:05
kind of a regular thing once you've done a couple long hikes... i dont mind the rain... the woods become so surreal when its pouring down rain... i feel like im a part of something you know, feels like the woods are all breathing a sigh of relief and i feed off their energy and feel truly alive and to witness and be a part of that is something to behold :D one of my favortie hikes was in pouring down rain for 3 days straight on the island of North Manitou, off michigans west coast... everything we brought was soaked all the through and we were attacked by slugs 2 of 3 nights :P but defenitely one of my favorites

rainmaker
01-18-2010, 23:28
As one who has experienced rain or more than one occassion I feel your dampness. I was actually planning a kayak camping trip to Capers Island in SC this past weekend, caught the forecast and decided to stay home. Anyway, one day you will remember this weekend fondly, one day many years from now. Y'all have a nice day.

Egads
01-18-2010, 23:36
Been there, done that, then gave the tent away.

Tinker
01-18-2010, 23:39
Three buddies and I decided weeks ago to do Dicks Creek Gap to Unicoi Gap this past weekend (see where this is going?) Friday night the weather was fantastic...very clear and dry conditions meant the first morning I've ever woken up in a truly bone dry tent in GA. We got a good start Saturday morning amid a hazy sky. Around Sassafras Gap a little mist began to fall, but nothing could dampen our spirits...we were headed to Tray Mtn Shelter after all and if the bottom fell out we could use that instead of the tent areas. We continued on while the sky grew darker and the precipitation brought out our rain gear (note: holy moly I love my REI Shuksan with eVent). We finally hit the side trail to the shelter at 3:30...only to find it crawling with Boy Scouts. It seems most of them forgot their "Be Prepared" motto.

We pitched camp in the steady rain, too tired and unwilling to forge on the final 5.6 miles over Tray and Rocky in the dark and in quickly deteriorating conditions. As the weather continued to get worse, I told the group there was no way I was even attempting to cook dinner in the monsoon and I went to my tent at an unprecedented 7pm to try and salvage whatever dryness I could. There was simply no escape. Before long the bottom of my SD Baku 1 began to absorb water, and wind forced water into my vents which I had to close as well. Know what happens when you do that in 100% humidity? I thought you did. I created my own little rain event inside by continuing to breathe. My sleeping bag (thankfully NOT down) became damp on the outside. Water dripped into the channels of my inflatable sleeping pad and ran the length of the pad under my bag. Every time I shifted around a bit, I became a little wetter. By 7am my entire tent had standing water in it. Everything...soaked. My pack, perched carefully over two tree branches straps-down with pack cover cinched over it, also wet. Never once did the rain subside all night, with temps dropping below 40 and gale force winds howling against the mountain face. There we were, just below the summit of Tray Mountain in absolutely horrendous conditions and quietly questioning our sanity.

Sunday morning brought no relief, as we packed up our thoroughly soaked and muddied gear and put on wet clothes and tried to keep moving to stave off hypothermia. We soldiered on through abysmal hiking conditions...pouring rain and cold wind, trails soaked with 12+ hours of nonstop rain, every step requiring even greater caution. We made it to Unicoi by 11:30, more tired and deflated than we've ever been after a hike. Gear cleanup at home last night could only be described as an unmitigated disaster.

To the other brave (stupid?) hikers we passed this weekend...hope you made it home in good shape.


Welcome to reality. Sometimes hiking sucks, too. Try doing that several days (or weeks) in a row, and you'll find out why so many people give up a thru attempt.
I've been hiking in all kinds of weather for 30 years and wouldn't lay down good money that I'd accomplish a thru - wet weather can dissolve resolve.
Btw: I did a shorter hike near home (more like a camp out, really) in similar weather and the only thing I really enjoyed was the company and the sleep in my hammock (no wet floor to worry about). Everything is drying in the furnace room or on the line outside as we speak.

ed bell
01-18-2010, 23:57
All night rain could have easily been 8+ inches of snow in January especially with this winter's track record.

Daydream Believer
01-19-2010, 00:03
Your hike sounds like our first section on the AT back in Oct. We stayed dry enough in our Big Agnes Seedhouse in a torrential heavy downpour for hours but by the time we struck our tent and packed up, we were soaked to the skin and our gear was soaked. Lucky for us, we tented at Gooch Gap and we just called for our ride and came in...and the shuttle picked up another section hiker who decided to come in also.

Our learning curve has been rather steep ..discomfort and misery can do that...now we carry a tarp to set up and stay dry to pack up stuff, etc... it's a bit more weight but for a couple hiking not so bad as we can share the load.

Lyle
01-19-2010, 00:17
All night rain could have easily been 8+ inches of snow in January especially with this winter's track record.

Probably would have been easier to deal with if it was cold too. Frozen water can be brushed/peeled off. :D

Toolshed
01-19-2010, 00:40
So, I am curious as to what happened to the boy scouts in that they weren't prepared?
If I know rain is coming and I am planning a trip with several others, I usually always bring an 8x10 tarp, 2 50' cords and some stakes to allow for a number of configurations for cooking, hanging out....

also, did you have a footprint? this is a good case for arguing to carry one. If it is absolutely waterproof and site selection is negligible at best, you can always put it inside the tent.

There are some folks that rain and poor weather doesn't seem to affect. I am not one of them, I generally will carry extra bits of gear to better ensure I stay dry and comfortable.

I Hope you have better luck on your next trip.

prain4u
01-19-2010, 01:14
Sorry to hear about your "fun" weekend". My first significant camping trip was nearly 40 years ago. So, I have had a few trips like the one you are describing. I hope that you leaned some possible lessons to help you stay drier the next time. I also hope that you gained some great stories to someday tell in your old age. My coldest and wettest trips seem to give me the most (and best) stories.

For what it is worth: My hammock is NEVER sitting in a pool of water on the ground. That is PART of the reason why I am slowly becoming a "convert" to "hammock hanging". During a 38 hour period of heavy rain--my sleeping area and sleeping gear stayed remarkably dry (even though I had set up in the middle of a heavy rainstorm). If you decide to replace your tent, you might want to come over to the "dark side" and get yourself a good hammock system. With a hammock, you will never again find yourself sleeping in a puddle of water on the ground. I'm not sayin'...but I'm just sayin'.......

Chaco Taco
01-19-2010, 10:51
Welcome to reality. Sometimes hiking sucks, too.

Never ever does it suck.
We walked into the 100 Miles knowing that 3-4 days of rain was coming. PLus I walked out of Shaws with a serious cold and a 12 year old bottle of Jamesons Irish Whiskey. Day 2, rain started, and stopped only on White Cap then didnt stop til we got just outside of Abol Bridge.

IF IF IF, you can adapt yourself to the rain, it wont suck. Not trying to down you Tinker, but hiking never sucks.;)

Jim Adams
01-19-2010, 11:13
No such thing as bad weather...just bad clothing and shelters.

I too was out this past weekend since I couldn't make it to the SoRuck. Two foot of snow on the ground and raining for 38 hours straight at 36*. I was fine but wished for better weather until I ran into RiffRaff (class of '03) and he explained to me that it was a beautiful day! lol

geek

Chaco Taco
01-19-2010, 11:15
No such thing as bad weather...just bad clothing and shelters.

I too was out this past weekend since I couldn't make it to the SoRuck. Two foot of snow on the ground and raining for 38 hours straight at 36*. I was fine but wished for better weather until I ran into RiffRaff (class of '03) and he explained to me that it was a beautiful day! lol

geek

You will have the chance to hike down here if you come for the wedding.

Jim Adams
01-19-2010, 11:49
You will have the chance to hike down here if you come for the wedding.
Yeah buddy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:sun

geek

ShelterLeopard
01-19-2010, 12:06
Hey it may have been miserable, but did you pay attention to what was going on so you could remember what not to do? Thats the real question. Took me a few times but i learned the hard way

That's why I was actually glad for the hypothermia inducing freezing rain this past Sunday. Since it was a shakedown for my upcoming start in GA, I needed actual conditions. Luckily, I now know that my gear is adequate, my packweight great, and life is good!

Bags4266
01-19-2010, 13:02
So, I am curious as to what happened to the boy scouts in that they weren't prepared?
If I know rain is coming and I am planning a trip with several others, I usually always bring an 8x10 tarp, 2 50' cords and some stakes to allow for a number of configurations for cooking, hanging out....

also, did you have a footprint? this is a good case for arguing to carry one. If it is absolutely waterproof and site selection is negligible at best, you can always put it inside the tent.

There are some folks that rain and poor weather doesn't seem to affect. I am not one of them, I generally will carry extra bits of gear to better ensure I stay dry and comfortable.

I Hope you have better luck on your next trip.

Second time that question on "Why the Scouts wern't perpared", was asked. I think what he was saying is that the group took over the shelter. That is rude if that happened.

Berserker
01-19-2010, 13:19
Hmmm, I might would have traded you for my weekend. Only stipulation is I get to use my own tent...I've been in deluges before and not gotten wet.

I did Dickey Gap (VA 650) to US 11 in SW VA. 26.1 miles where probably at least half of it was in deep snow (1' - 2'). I almost had a coronary trudging through that junk. It rained on Saturday night, but my buddy and I stayed dry in Chatfield shelter.

Chaco Taco
01-19-2010, 13:21
That's why I was actually glad for the hypothermia inducing freezing rain this past Sunday. Since it was a shakedown for my upcoming start in GA, I needed actual conditions. Luckily, I now know that my gear is adequate, my packweight great, and life is good!

You are way ahead about 85% of the starters then. I did the same thing the week before my start. I went and did the Smokies to make sure and got every weather scenario imaginable! Going out as much as possible only makes you a better hiker. Some of us are more fortunate, having killer trails close by:D:D:D:D:D:D

Chaco Taco
01-19-2010, 13:22
Hmmm, I might would have traded you for my weekend. Only stipulation is I get to use my own tent...I've been in deluges before and not gotten wet.

I did Dickey Gap (VA 650) to US 11 in SW VA. 26.1 miles where probably at least half of it was in deep snow (1' - 2'). I almost had a coronary trudging through that junk. It rained on Saturday night, but my buddy and I stayed dry in Chatfield shelter.

You need some Yaktraxs:D

ShelterLeopard
01-19-2010, 13:24
Yepper- rarin' to go now! (Woud've thought the rain would dampen my spirits a bit, but I was hoppin' right along!)

ShelterLeopard
01-19-2010, 13:25
Well, rain never dampens my spirit much- I always have something dry to wear and warm to drink. That's the life!

JAK
01-19-2010, 13:28
Sounds like it wasn't just the scouts that were unprepared. But like Chaco Taco and ShelterLeopard said, if you learn something, its worth it. I find laughter helps alot when I find myself in the **** again. Laughter, wet but warm wool sweater, and warm tea if you can make a fire. Otherwise cold tea, and more laughter. Gotta wear wool for that stuff though, and some fleece with it. Squeeze it out when you have to, but wear enough to stay warm even when soaked through. Conserve your energy. Laugh and have fun.

Freezing temperatures after a good soaking. Now there's a laugh.

Berserker
01-19-2010, 13:33
You need some Yaktraxs:D
I had to look those up to see what they are. They look pretty cool. Might help a little with traction, but that wasn't the main issue. Each step was an adventure in itself. One time your foot may only sink in 6. Then on the next step it may go down 1 and hit a rock torquing your ankle. Then of course you have to pull your foot back up out of the wet/sometimes crusty snow. The whole thing is just down right masochistic now that I think about it. Next time I think I'm just gonna try to reschedule for when there's not a substantial amount of snow on the ground.

Chaco Taco
01-19-2010, 13:44
I had to look those up to see what they are. They look pretty cool. Might help a little with traction, but that wasn't the main issue. Each step was an adventure in itself. One time your foot may only sink in 6. Then on the next step it may go down 1 and hit a rock torquing your ankle. Then of course you have to pull your foot back up out of the wet/sometimes crusty snow. The whole thing is just down right masochistic now that I think about it. Next time I think I'm just gonna try to reschedule for when there's not a substantial amount of snow on the ground.

I hear ya. Do you use poles?

jesse
01-19-2010, 13:49
Second time that question on "Why the Scouts wern't perpared", was asked. I think what he was saying is that the group took over the shelter. That is rude if that happened.

The Scouts were prepared. Their plan was to beat the other unprepared hikers to the shelter.

Why was it rude? First come first served.

ShelterLeopard
01-19-2010, 13:51
The Scouts were prepared. Their plan was to beat the other unprepared hikers to the shelter.

Why was it rude? First come first served.

It is always rude for a group to plan to take over a shelter. (In my opinion, anyway.)

Berserker
01-19-2010, 13:59
I hear ya. Do you use poles?
Yeah. They helped a good bit. Kept me from going down a bunch of times.

Dances with Mice
01-19-2010, 14:11
Location, location, location. If there wasn't a shelter on Tray would you have still chosen to spend that night on top of a mountain? You passed more protected sites at Cheese Factory & Tray Gap and were about half an hour or so away from a cozy little campsite down the other side of Tray at Steel Trap Gap. Yeah, it'd still be raining at all those sites but you'd be a little warmer and out of the worst of the wind.

Toolshed
01-19-2010, 14:20
It is always rude for a group to plan to take over a shelter. (In my opinion, anyway.)


Second time that question on "Why the Scouts wern't perpared", was asked. I think what he was saying is that the group took over the shelter. That is rude if that happened.


Wait a minute if it is a group of 8 and the shelter sleeps 8 and they were there first, how is that rude? I understand that if it is a group of 8, and the shelter sleeps 10, and they stand there at the edge of the shelter with their arms crossed glaring at incoming hikers, then it is rude. however, it is incumbent upon the new arrivals to walk up to the shelter and fully assess the situation. I think E-Turtle probably needs to 'explain himself better as to what he meant, because all of this is simply conjecture...
.
If it was simply that he saw a bunch of scouts and didn't want to investigate further (as to whether there really was room in the shelter) due to perhaps thinking he might be annoyed all night by typical bantering and yakking of teenage boys, then that was simply a decision he made and cannot hold someone else responsible.
But unless they didn't have stoves, sleeping bags, raingear, food or other shelter, I am not sure how he can call them unprepared.
I would like to know more about it though. I have been aggravated by a bunch of scouts or church groups in a Lean-to that I had planned to sleep in years ago, but then I realized that it is the fact that I didn't like the idea of having to share my wilderness with them ina manner that I didn't want to. Now I avoid sleeping in shelters altogether.

Jester2000
01-19-2010, 14:47
Wait a minute if it is a group of 8 and the shelter sleeps 8 and they were there first, how is that rude? . . .

From the ATC website:

"Hikers occupy them on a first-come, first-served basis until the shelter is full. They are intended for individual hikers, not big groups. If you're planning a group hike, plan to camp out or to yield space to individual hikers who may not have the resources you do. Many shelters are near good campsites for tenting."

sbhikes
01-19-2010, 16:38
I don't like being out in the rain. I hoped I could get used to it on the PCT hiking in Washington. I never did.

Toolshed
01-19-2010, 17:47
From the ATC website:

"Hikers occupy them on a first-come, first-served basis until the shelter is full. They are intended for individual hikers, not big groups. If you're planning a group hike, plan to camp out or to yield space to individual hikers who may not have the resources you do. Many shelters are near good campsites for tenting."
Thanks for the reference, Jester, I wasn't aware this commentary/policy existed.

ShelterLeopard
01-19-2010, 17:51
And it's just common courtesy to not take up a whole shelter with a group. Shelters are meant for single hikers.

Toolshed
01-19-2010, 17:57
And it's just common courtesy to not take up a whole shelter with a group. Shelters are meant for single hikers.
Oh... you're still mad at me about mouse erections.........
PS .... How did your shakedown go? Good time for all? Saturday was spectacular. I looked over at South Mountain Ridge by DWG on Sunday and wondered how you folks were making out....Kinda nasty here 20 miles away.....

Jester2000
01-19-2010, 18:02
Thanks for the reference, Jester, I wasn't aware this commentary/policy existed.

No problem! I'm pretty sure that those who don't follow this guideline are also just unaware of it, rather than ignoring it.

I've bumped into Scouts at shelters. In my experience, the kids tend to tent, with maybe two adults in the shelter. I've never actually had a problem with a big group taking over a shelter, but I suppose it happens from time to time.

ShelterLeopard
01-19-2010, 19:55
:p :)

Went really well- the weather was awful on Sunday! Perfect for a shakedown!!! (And Saturday was beautiful. Seriously, the perfect hike. Saturday, beautiful and chilly, sometimes even balmy, Saturday night, quite chilly, Sunday, freezing rain. Just right for a shakedown. Thanks for asking!

jesse
01-19-2010, 19:57
From the ATC website:

"Hikers occupy them on a first-come, first-served basis until the shelter is full. They are intended for individual hikers, not big groups. If you're planning a group hike, plan to camp out or to yield space to individual hikers who may not have the resources you do. Many shelters are near good campsites for tenting."

What resources do groups have that individuals don't have? You should be prepared to sleep warm and dry, and eat without depending on shelters.

Jester2000
01-19-2010, 21:06
What resources do groups have that individuals don't have? You should be prepared to sleep warm and dry, and eat without depending on shelters.

I can only speculate, since I didn't write what's on the ATC's website. But it's possible that they're talking about the ability to carry tarps large enough to create group common areas for cooking and socializing, and tents large enough (4-5 person, room enough to stand up in) that they don't feel cooped up when it's pouring rain.

If you're actually curious, you could ask LaurieP here on whiteblaze -- she works for ATC.

take-a-knee
01-19-2010, 21:21
Sorry to hear about your "fun" weekend". My first significant camping trip was nearly 40 years ago. So, I have had a few trips like the one you are describing. I hope that you leaned some possible lessons to help you stay drier the next time. I also hope that you gained some great stories to someday tell in your old age. My coldest and wettest trips seem to give me the most (and best) stories.

For what it is worth: My hammock is NEVER sitting in a pool of water on the ground. That is PART of the reason why I am slowly becoming a "convert" to "hammock hanging". During a 38 hour period of heavy rain--my sleeping area and sleeping gear stayed remarkably dry (even though I had set up in the middle of a heavy rainstorm). If you decide to replace your tent, you might want to come over to the "dark side" and get yourself a good hammock system. With a hammock, you will never again find yourself sleeping in a puddle of water on the ground. I'm not sayin'...but I'm just sayin'.......

Hammocks rule. Ground dwellers deserve to get soaked, just wiggle and giggle like the slow-to-evolve reptile that you are and enjoy it.

I first went hiking (we called it backpacking then) on the AT 35 yrs ago. I tried every hammock the Army had, they all sucked. The first time I saw a picture of a Hennessy Hammock in Soldier of Fortune magazine, no one had to explain to me that was the way smart people camped, if at all possible, I would not use a hammock at minus 20 but above zero, it's a no-brainer.

Connie
01-20-2010, 00:15
I don't know about a policy for groups, but I feel the same way about their bringing a big paratarp or river rafting-type setup for their group meals and socializing.

I know I feel very strongly scouting is not about boy scouts hiking to a shelter or a hut, having shared my 6 mil 8x10 tarp on a 18-day hiking trip in the North Cascades with some very wet and bedraggled girl scouts. I was the only girl scout to bring the 6 mil 8x10 plastic tarp on our list of required gear.

I even swapped my warm sleeping bag one night, and believe me, not one night more.

I never went with the unprepared girl scouts anywhere, again.

JAK
01-20-2010, 00:35
Well, learning what 'prepared' is while dumping on scouts seems to be an ongoing process. lol

GGS2
01-20-2010, 01:38
... Each step was an adventure in itself. One time your foot may only sink in 6. Then on the next step it may go down 1 and hit a rock torquing your ankle. ...

I once ran into the same kind of problem in a boulder field overgrown with ground cover. Couldn't see where to place my feet. Very uncomfortable. Fortunately, I didn't twist anything.

energy_turtle
01-22-2010, 09:06
So, I am curious as to what happened to the boy scouts in that they weren't prepared?


Many of them didn't even have what I'd call sufficient outerwear for dry conditions, let alone torrential rains. One kid had on shorts.

energy_turtle
01-22-2010, 09:07
Sorry to hear about your "fun" weekend". My first significant camping trip was nearly 40 years ago. So, I have had a few trips like the one you are describing. I hope that you leaned some possible lessons to help you stay drier the next time. I also hope that you gained some great stories to someday tell in your old age. My coldest and wettest trips seem to give me the most (and best) stories.

For what it is worth: My hammock is NEVER sitting in a pool of water on the ground. That is PART of the reason why I am slowly becoming a "convert" to "hammock hanging". During a 38 hour period of heavy rain--my sleeping area and sleeping gear stayed remarkably dry (even though I had set up in the middle of a heavy rainstorm). If you decide to replace your tent, you might want to come over to the "dark side" and get yourself a good hammock system. With a hammock, you will never again find yourself sleeping in a puddle of water on the ground. I'm not sayin'...but I'm just sayin'.......

I'm looking to hang soon...however I'm a little wary of doing so in January.

energy_turtle
01-22-2010, 09:14
Location, location, location. If there wasn't a shelter on Tray would you have still chosen to spend that night on top of a mountain? You passed more protected sites at Cheese Factory & Tray Gap and were about half an hour or so away from a cozy little campsite down the other side of Tray at Steel Trap Gap. Yeah, it'd still be raining at all those sites but you'd be a little warmer and out of the worst of the wind.

Wrong direction...we started at Dicks Creek Gap. We didn't pass Cheese Factory and Tray Gap until Sunday.

take-a-knee
01-22-2010, 09:37
I don't know about a policy for groups, but I feel the same way about their bringing a big paratarp or river rafting-type setup for their group meals and socializing.

I know I feel very strongly scouting is not about boy scouts hiking to a shelter or a hut, having shared my 6 mil 8x10 tarp on a 18-day hiking trip in the North Cascades with some very wet and bedraggled girl scouts. I was the only girl scout to bring the 6 mil 8x10 plastic tarp on our list of required gear.

I even swapped my warm sleeping bag one night, and believe me, not one night more.

I never went with the unprepared girl scouts anywhere, again.

Connie, there are undoubtedly countless SEALS in your neck-of-the woods who need to be rescued, get on it pronto.

take-a-knee
01-22-2010, 09:38
I'm looking to hang soon...however I'm a little wary of doing so in January.

Yes, staying warm in a hammock certainly has a learning curve.

energy_turtle
01-22-2010, 09:44
Yes, staying warm in a hammock certainly has a learning curve.

I tend to be a warm sleeper so I don't think I'll have too much of a problem down here, but I don't want to add 2-3 lbs of weight for the sole purpose of staying warm. As it is my shelter weight is under 3 lbs...if I can do that with a hammock and stay warm in the winter I'll probably switch and not look back. Looking hard at the Blackbird, presently.