People who had gear that didn't quite understand how it works

[JustaTouron]

Anyone have any funny stories about hikers how had fancy gear, but didn't quite understand how it works......

Here is mine.

I got a friend who is more a collector of hiking equipment than he is a hiker. He goes out hiking two weekends a year but spends at min of $500 per year on new gear every year. Some years significantly more. He is one of those people who automatically assumes the most expensive piece of gear is the best. I still use the same cookset I had in boy scouts.

His newest toy was a very expensive digital altimeter that was guaranteed to be accurate to within a foot. We get to the top of the first hill he consults his altimeter and consults the map and tells me that either the altimeter is wrong or the map is wrong cause they don't match. I ask him is off by a lot or just a few feet. He says just a few feet, I tell him not to worry about it.

We repeat this same scene at the second hill.

We get to the third hill. Same thing but now he is starting to get really mad. "This is really odd. I think the altimeter is defective. And I paid a lot of money for this thing. According it all three hills are three feet taller than the map says they are."

I ask him to hand it to me. I carefully study it as if I am looking for a defect. I then exclaim, "I think I found the defect." I then bend down and place it on the ground.

He responds, "hey your gonna get it all dirty, I need to return it"

I say, "check the display now"

"Hey, you fixed it!" :-?

[shelterbuilder]

Anyone have any funny stories about hikers how had fancy gear, but didn't quite understand how it works......

Here is mine.

I got a friend who is more a collector of hiking equipment than he is a hiker. He goes out hiking two weekends a year but spends at min of $500 per year on new gear every year. Some years significantly more. He is one of those people who automatically assumes the most expensive piece of gear is the best. I still use the same cookset I had in boy scouts.

His newest toy was a very expensive digital altimeter that was guaranteed to be accurate to within a foot. We get to the top of the first hill he consults his altimeter and consults the map and tells me that either the altimeter is wrong or the map is wrong cause they don't match. I ask him is off by a lot or just a few feet. He says just a few feet, I tell him not to worry about it.

We repeat this same scene at the second hill.

We get to the third hill. Same thing but now he is starting to get really mad. "This is really odd. I think the altimeter is defective. And I paid a lot of money for this thing. According it all three hills are three feet taller than the map says they are."

I ask him to hand it to me. I carefully study it as if I am looking for a defect. I then exclaim, "I think I found the defect." I then bend down and place it on the ground.

He responds, "hey your gonna get it all dirty, I need to return it"

I say, "check the display now"

"Hey, you fixed it!" :-?

OH, THAT'S FUNNY!!!:D But that's how it goes when you have more money than smarts....

[white_russian]

I was at Hawk mtn shelter a few years back and a fellow walks up kind of late. He pulls out his tent and starts looking at it funny. It was a brand new MSR tent that had never been setup before, he still had the instruction manual with it. Lucky for him there was someone there who used to own that model and helped him set it up. Then the next I passed him on the trail and noticed he still had the price tags on his brand new ULA backpack.

[Franco]

I'd like to see an altimeter that is accurate within 3' , let alone one that is spot on...
Franco

[JustaTouron]

I'd like to see an altimeter that is accurate within 3' , let alone one that is spot on...
Franco

He spent around $1000 for the dang thing. Suppose to have some sort of built in sensor to compenstate of the changing weather.

Totally unnecessary piece of gear for our hike.

[Rocket Jones]

That's hilarious.

That kind of accuracy isn't prohibitively difficult to achieve either. I was working with some students who built a hobby rocket payload that transmitted the altitude, plus an antenna to pick up the signal. We watched on a laptop as the recorded altitude went from 3' to 6' and then back to 2' as they loaded the rocket onto the launch rail. All told, the kids spent about $50 for their project.

[vamelungeon]

So, there are actually people who don't set up a new tent in their living room? Who knew?

[Bronk]

I bumped into a middle aged guy who was hiking south...his son was hiking north and he wanted to spend a couple weeks out on the trail with him so he figured rather than try to plan to meet somewhere the easiest way to hook up would be for him to start hiking south a couple days ahead of where his son was.

This guy had obviously never been camping before, but he went and bought all the stuff he figured he'd need. He had a coleman stove and couldn't figure out how to prime it and couldn't get it lit...I fooled with it for a bit and got it going for him.

After dinner he set up his tent. Now this was a big guy...probably 6ft 4in with broad shoulders. Huge guy. So he sets up this one man tent he had bought at Walmart. First time setting it up...the guy is so big and the tent so small that he couldn't fit all the way in it...he slept in there all night with the door unzipped with his legs sticking out.

He was a really nice guy...was clearly having fun and just excited to be out on the trail...but had no clue what he was doing...

[Franco]

Sorry but I am still stuck on that zero error altimeter. I had no idea that a portable device of that type could be purchased.
I would love to find out what the product is and where I can buy it.
Franco

[Rocketman]

Sorry but I am still stuck on that zero error altimeter. I had no idea that a portable device of that type could be purchased.
I would love to find out what the product is and where I can buy it.
Franco

Inside an altimeter, is a BAROMETER. The reported altitude is just a byproduct of the barometer reading. There is nothing inside the altimeter that directly measures altitude.

I wear a barometer/altimeter watch. Mine has an elevation resolution of 1 foot. Resolution does not mean accuracy, as is common in all discussions of instrumentation.

To my knowledge, ALL altimeters require that you calibrate them daily. That means, find some place with a posted altitude (or one read off the map), and adjust the altimeter at that place to read that altitude. When that is done, the "sea level adjusted barometric pressure" reported by the device should match that reported by the weather service. Many altimeter/barometers also allow reporting of the "absolute atmospheric pressure", which is the air pressure at the location where you are.

The barometric pressure maps issued by the weather service, with highs and lows and pressure contours, are "Sea Level Adjusted".

Without "sea level adjustment" Denver Colorado would always report low atmospheric pressure because the (absolute)air pressure at 5,000 feet is "normally" about 850 millibar and the weather service barometric map would report this as 1013 millibar corrected to sea level. In other words, the "normal" atmospheric pressure of both Denver and Miami Beach would be reported as about 1013 millibar.

In the old days of mechanical altimeters, the good ones would have a little mechanical switch you could throw. In one position, all of the air pressure change was going to register as an altitude change. You would use this setting when you were in camp and would stay there overnight. In the morning, the altimeter would still report your altitude the same as last night, and would report a changed atmospheric pressure as a barometer rise or fall. The other position would have the altimeter treat all pressure changes as due to altitude change, which would usually better correspond to hiking/climbing/descending activities.

Electronic devices allow more options than the mechanical switch, but don't have any ability to absolutely distinguish between air pressure changes driven by atmosphere change vs altitude change. My altimeter/barometer assumes that if the pressure doesn't change over some fixed time, that you are effectively in camp, and it then electronically switches over into the mode of keeping your altitude constant and recording all pressure changes as if they were barometric pressure rises at constant altitude. Switching in and out of altimeter mode will turn off that setting.

This system gets fooled a lot. Therefore, the manual tells you that you should daily (or more often) calibrate the altitude, if possible.

It is my experience that over half of the owners of these watch/barometer/altimeters never calibrate the altitude. About the same fraction never read the manuals either. Perhaps there is some correlelation.


GPS will directly measure your altitude. However, it won't measure the barometric pressure. If you want accurate altitudes, I would suggest that you buy a GPS instead. Then, you won't have to worry about barometric corrections because the GPS doesn't sense barometric pressure to deduce an altitude.... GPS works out your location in 3 dimensions, and uses that third dimension to report your altitude.

Don't know how accurate GPS really is.

Accuracy and resolution are not the same things. You can buy cheap instruments that have a lot of reported resolution, but are inaccurate in all measurements, perhaps because the zero calibration is off and therefore no measurement is accurate.

I eagerly await the information on the expensive altimeter that compensates all of the altitude shifting out of the altimeter reading.

The story about the 3 foot error of mountain peaks is one of those stories that is so good, that it is true, even if it never happened. :sun

[Toolshed]

Circa Winter 1993. Eastside Overland Trail in WNY.
There were a couple of guys camping in the L/T next to us. I had eaten dinner and was boiling water for the evening. I had kept hearing commotion over dinner and would look over every so often to hear them complaining about something.
After I was set, I walked over to say hi. I noticed they had Whisperlite with what looked like a priming flame and a very blackened pot of water on it. we exchanged hellos and they gave me a beer. (They had a full case that their friend had snowmobiled in)

As we talked, one of the guys said he was pissed that the new stove didn't work - It had been over an hour and water still hadn't boiled. I asked what they did - He said they turned it on and put the pot on it.

I walked over and moved the pot and opened the valve. The flame jumped and then quickly settled down to a beautiful blue ported jet flame with a loud roar. They were stupefied!!
They told me later they had started to turn up the valve one but a large orange fireball and then a roar had scared them.

[JustaTouron]

I am going have ask him about the altemeter.

Having read Rockman's descripition, it is possible it had a 1 foot resolution and we got really really lucky with the calibration. The weather didn't change in the 2 hours between the first measurement and the last measurement, and we never used it again. The next trip he had a shinny new GPS.

I know I didn't read the manual. I doubt he did either.

[Franco]

Rocketman
I am very well aware of how "altimeters" work, I was just having a bit of fun.
I have used the Kestrel, own a Casio "watch" and have compared that with Suunto.
GPS are not any better.
For about $1500 you can get an instrument that is supposed to be accurate within a few inches, however it is not a backpacking unit...
Right now I am reading the Darwin Awards books, they contain several of the more popular "urban legends" hence my inspiration for the post...
Franco

[dickdurk]

Rocketman
I am very well aware of how "altimeters" work, I was just having a bit of fun.
I have used the Kestrel, own a Casio "watch" and have compared that with Suunto.
GPS are not any better.
For about $1500 you can get an instrument that is supposed to be accurate within a few inches, however it is not a backpacking unit...
Right now I am reading the Darwin Awards books, they contain several of the more popular "urban legends" hence my inspiration for the post...
Franco

Ya. there is a reason the higher end consumer level GPS units include a barometer. The vertical axis fix isn't all that great on them. I work with about 5 different units (GPS receivers are embedded in everything now adays) and just disable the 3D option where I can-the altitude reading is all over the place. But then, I am always at sealevel anyway...

[Toolshed]

So, there are actually people who don't set up a new tent in their living room? Who knew?
They are probably not married......

[srestrepo]

i have a friend who is super cheap. i mean cheap as they come. liek this kid bought a USED wal-mart tent becuase he said the ozark trail tents at wal-mart were already entirely too expensive. it wasn't that he was cheap, nothing wrong with that just know you get what you pay for unless you're smart enough to make your own gear (which he did not)

anyway we get in the woods, i didn't even bother to check his back pack because this same kid is stubborn as they come.

he's wearing a 90 liter pack and its riding him crooked, he bought the pack at ems and he had someone there fit him with it (i was there, i watched, it was perfect)

he made some quick adjustments on the trail because the guy at the store didn't know what he was talking about. 3.5 miles in with a blister on his shoulder we pitched camp.

he whips out his giant red ozard trail 3 person tent and then pitches it in a natural depression. not only that, he places said tent over a giant blue poly tarp with the edges sticking out.

then he asks me for help inflating him twin size coleman inflatable mattress. with a hand pump - like for a bicycle. it was about 1.5 foot thick...

oh and of course, while im sitting there pumping away on his mattress, he pulls out his flannel lined sleeping bag and chucks it on the ground, the wet ground.

it rained that night, his mattress eventually punctured, his sleeping bag already wet and with his tent collecting rainwater between the floor and his tarp it was a miserable night for him.

the other thing is that he was so careless with what little gear he had, i didn't even feel comfortable letting him borrow any of my stuff.

either way, he was so unprepared for the situation it wasn't even worth trying to teach him otherwise. i'm almost sure that he'd not have listened either way.

so i guess this isn't a case of too rich for intelligence but more or less to cheap and stubborn for his own good...

[thelowend]

^that is absolutely epic. 3.5 miles?! Too cheap for intelligence maybe?..

[srestrepo]

tell me about. funny this thread came up.

he just left my house, he walks in with this duffel bag full of stuff.

we've got some maps and he bought himself a decent compass. i guess we're doing the presi's in the summertime.

well the guy's got himself a used sierra designs lightyear with a footprint. in decent shape. he bought himself some inov8 roclite boots. and then he also got himself a gsi soloist cookset.

when everything starts looking like its going good, i asked him about what sleeping bag he'll take with him, he says "oh yeah the coleman flannel one, its still good i just washed it"

i know he has a top loading washing machine. i'm just sitting here waiting for him to call to tell me he ruined it... i'm not sure if thats a good or a bad thing.

[Dogwood]

I had an Aunt who after 1 yr still didn't understand how to turn her new TV on. It did take pushing 3 separate buttons in the right order, but she just never seemed to get around to reading the TV instruction booklet, which by the way, sat on top of the TV for taht whole yr.

MY altimeter watches work by barometric pressure. BM changes because of altitude, but also because of weather changes. Mine has a Altitude lock for when I'm in camp so I don't have to recalibrate it every morning. When I think altitude is a critical factor I take altitude readings at known elvs throughout the day and make adjustments if needed. . And, you are right Franco, I'ver never seen an altimeter watch, including one of my very expensive Suuntos, even when accurately calibrated, have a more than a 3 ft accuracy. That was a good pt. Rocket about the reading pertaining to resolution rather than accuracy.

I found it easier to learn how to drive on my dad's beatup 3 speed manual on the column PU while he was yelling at me to avoid hitting someone or something than reading, understanding, and learning how to use my altimeter watches w/ all their features and modes.

[Franco]

One of my many "equipment" failures had no complex gear involved, just lack of "common sense"
During a brief love affair with sandals (Teva) and after several (short...) test runs, I took them on a off trail river walk. That is what they are designed for , no ?
Well going in was not too bad, I felt some hot spots but was in the shallow water most of the time. (I hat temporarily forgotten that snakes also like the water on really hot days. That memory was restored during the next walk there...)
Anyway when I arrived at camp , those "hot spots" were actually raw bits of flesh. Let's say that walking out two days later with my feet covered with duct tape and supported by my poles I looked like returning from the front.
Franco
This is one of them snakes out of the water. It is a red bellied black snake. Only dangerous if it bites you.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/Francophoto/odds/RedBelliedblacksnake.jpg

[Blissful]

This happens with me and tents. Takes me several times to figure out how to rig a tent right (or take it down like trying to get the poles to detach on my MSR tent wthout flipping back together, what a pain). Took me weeks to rig my tarp tent correctly, don't ask me why.

[Franco]

Blissful
You are not alone .
This picture was posted a few hours ago .
My comment was that it is the worst picture of the Scarp I have seen so far (what a nice guy...)
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/Francophoto/Scarp%201/Notthisway.jpg



I have problems with pyramid type tents. Can never put them up taut without a lot of fiddling.

In a moment of pure madness I purchased a pair of Scarpa SL 2 (full leather boots, about 26 lbs..)
They are Italian made and so are my feet,. What a match !
Oddly on exactly the same walk as the Teva fiasco but in winter (lots of mud and slippery moss, the river was too deep and cold...) I had my first and coincidentally last walk with them.
Fortunately once again nobody else was around.
On another walk I had the brilliant idea of using a new pair of mesh Salomon runners without socks. That was fantastic for a few hours. Not so much after that.
Maybe that is how I ended up with 6 (!) pair of socks on my last 5 day walk. I forgot that I already had them packed in my "night" kit.
Franco

[Wise Old Owl]

I'd like to see an altimeter that is accurate within 3' , let alone one that is spot on...
Franco


hmm does the word calibrate mean anything?:eek: Darn someone beat me too it.

Rocket Man - GPS is good to about 16 feet in Altitude unless its military or land serveyor quality.

[srestrepo]

i feel bad for that scarp... it looks so sad...

[Skidsteer]

Nice shrubbery though.

[Wise Old Owl]

:cool:Shrubbery? you are a Python enthusiast?:cool:

[scope]

They are probably not married......

heh, heh, actually I was thinking the opposite. My wife would have a coniption (sp?) if I did that.

When I tented, got a nice new tent and setup in the driveway, everything is great. Couldn't get it all back in the bag so I left the poles out - carry them separately right, no big deal.

Well, left them at home first trip, which it rained of course. OH, the memory of getting it all out of the bag and realizing the poles weren't there. Friend I went with shared his two man, which of course, is big enough for one and pack. Fortunately, we only planned on one night. Live and learn.

[Franco]

Oh Wise One
Yes, in passing I have heard of calibration... still that doe not give you zero error accuracy a few hours later on a different location.
In case you don't get the point, the 3 feet story is just that.
Franco

[Franco]

Maybe I should explain myself..
I am a skeptic, so this is my take on this story :
His newest toy was a very expensive digital altimeter that was guaranteed to be accurate to within a foot. We get to the top of the first hill he consults his altimeter and consults the map and tells me that either the altimeter is wrong or the map is wrong cause they don't match. I ask him is off by a lot or just a few feet. He says just a few feet, I tell him not to worry about it.

We repeat this same scene at the second hill.

We get to the third hill. Same thing but now he is starting to get really mad. "This is really odd. I think the altimeter is defective. And I paid a lot of money for this thing. According it all three hills are three feet taller than the map says they are."

I ask him to hand it to me. I carefully study it as if I am looking for a defect. I then exclaim, "I think I found the defect." I then bend down and place it on the ground.

He responds, "hey your gonna get it all dirty, I need to return it"

I say, "check the display now"

"Hey, you fixed it!"

So we learn that
1) the friend had a portable instrument that was guaranteed to be accurate within 1'.
2) on three different hills the discrepancy was exactly 3 feet

For the story to work you needs to meet the following conditions :
1) an instrument that indeed is guaranteed to within 1' accuracy
2) the map to be spot on
3) the measurement taken on the exact spot the map is quoting x 3
4) each of those spots on the hill has to be marked on the ground
5) the instrument had to be calibrated on the same day
6) that initial spot also has to be 100% accurately marked
7) the weather had to remain at that "ideal" pressure so as not to influence the readings *
8) the instrument had to be calibrated (that morning...) laying on the ground. That would be a hard one to forget...

Now if all of the above conditions are fulfilled than we may have something...

*N 7 is debatable because of this comment on a subsequent post :
"Suppose to have some sort of built in sensor to compenstate of the changing weather. "
However I am not aware of this feature being available on any civilian portable unit.

Franco

[double d]

I was at Hawk mtn shelter a few years back and a fellow walks up kind of late. He pulls out his tent and starts looking at it funny. It was a brand new MSR tent that had never been setup before, he still had the instruction manual with it. Lucky for him there was someone there who used to own that model and helped him set it up. Then the next I passed him on the trail and noticed he still had the price tags on his brand new ULA backpack.

its about time we started weeding out the gene pool

[Franco]

Back on topic...
Having sold watches and various personal digital assistants as part of my job , I should be very familiar on how to set watches.
Yet one of the first times I took my Casio in the bush , whilst switching the alarm off before going to sleep I activated the hourly chime.
(in the bush I am a very light sleeper but apparently a loud snorer)
So I spent the night waking up on the hour almost every hour. I tried and failed to figure out how to switch that off several times.
Only at lunchtime the next day I finally worked out the meaning of some blinking dots on the display...
Mind you I also spent a considerable amount of time trying to change the date display , from Y/M/D to D/M/Y and failed.
A search on the net (several try later) revealed that it cannot be done on mine...
(after the first reading I had decided that I did not need "no stinking manual")
Franco

[ShelterLeopard]

:cool:Shrubbery? you are a Python enthusiast?:cool:

So, so tempting to warp this whole thread in the name of Python!!!! But no. (Ah, the dead parrot sketch, fighting....to keep....it....inside....)

Have seen this many times. Tents, hammocks, stoves (especially stoves), also food... Yes, I've seen many people bring food they do not know how to cook. (So this falafel, you eat it with a spoon, right? Yeah, if you want to vomit.)

[vamelungeon]

Back on topic...
Having sold watches and various personal digital assistants as part of my job , I should be very familiar on how to set watches.
Yet one of the first times I took my Casio in the bush , whilst switching the alarm off before going to sleep I activated the hourly chime.
(in the bush I am a very light sleeper but apparently a loud snorer)
So I spent the night waking up on the hour almost every hour. I tried and failed to figure out how to switch that off several times.
Only at lunchtime the next day I finally worked out the meaning of some blinking dots on the display...
Mind you I also spent a considerable amount of time trying to change the date display , from Y/M/D to D/M/Y and failed.
A search on the net (several try later) revealed that it cannot be done on mine...
(after the first reading I had decided that I did not need "no stinking manual")
Franco
I have a Casio "Wave Ceptor" that makes me dig out the manual every time I have to change a setting. I've also turned on the hourly chime by accident.

[kayak karl]

i help a guy set up an HH hammock in Maine. he never opened it before that night. it only dropped to 75. he lucked out.

[Tinker]

Circa Winter 1993. Eastside Overland Trail in WNY.
There were a couple of guys camping in the L/T next to us. I had eaten dinner and was boiling water for the evening. I had kept hearing commotion over dinner and would look over every so often to hear them complaining about something.
After I was set, I walked over to say hi. I noticed they had Whisperlite with what looked like a priming flame and a very blackened pot of water on it. we exchanged hellos and they gave me a beer. (They had a full case that their friend had snowmobiled in)

As we talked, one of the guys said he was pissed that the new stove didn't work - It had been over an hour and water still hadn't boiled. I asked what they did - He said they turned it on and put the pot on it.

I walked over and moved the pot and opened the valve. The flame jumped and then quickly settled down to a beautiful blue ported jet flame with a loud roar. They were stupefied!!
They told me later they had started to turn up the valve one but a large orange fireball and then a roar had scared them.

This type of scenario was played over and over when I worked at REI in Reading a long time ago. Unfortunately, so few people actually figured out how to use the stove, far fewer cleaned it, and many, if not most, used old gas (one gallon lasts a few years if you only go out for a weekend a year) that the stove earned a less than stellar rating among its many owners. I clean mine, not every year, but before each use, and use old "white gas" in my lawnmower instead of the stove, and have NEVER had a problem with the Whisperlite.
The story is very funny, though :D.

[Tinker]

Actually, I clean my stove before the first winter trip of the year (I only use it in the winter now), not clear in my post above. Sorry.

[Ranc0r]

They are probably not married......

That excuse doesn't fly. I started setting up tents in my parent's living room as a teenager, buying first, fourth and sixth tents. Set up many a sleeping pad and bag combo in the front hall by the door, coldest spot. And I cannot count the number of nights I slept on the front porch, cold but covered, testing out pads and bags. Gear junkie early on. First wife never got it, second wife does.

And the kids go camping too, just with my old gear.

HYOH, finance yer own habits.

Ranc0r
.

[srestrepo]

That excuse doesn't fly. I started setting up tents in my parent's living room as a teenager, buying first, fourth and sixth tents. Set up many a sleeping pad and bag combo in the front hall by the door, coldest spot. And I cannot count the number of nights I slept on the front porch, cold but covered, testing out pads and bags. Gear junkie early on. First wife never got it, second wife does.

And the kids go camping too, just with my old gear.

HYOH, finance yer own habits.

Ranc0r
.

finally, a brother in arms... i've also slept on the porch and in my tent in my room when i was younger... (purposely not clarifying how long ago this was...)

my parents hated it, my sisters thought i was a dork and my girlfriend quickly realized i had a mild obsession with gear...

good thing she's got her addiction too (purses) so she understands when i get a new anything that i need to immediately play with it...

[ShelterLeopard]

Sebastian, that is hilarious! (My little brother is obsessed with nerf guns. Every time I point that out, he points out that I'm way more obsessed with hiking things...)

[Erin]

Nice snake pic. I have enjoyed this thread.
I have been the person who did not understand the gear because I did not take the time and it was my fault:
1. When I camped alone out east for a trip that was not backpacking, I took a stove that my mother got and kept for the big earthquake we were supposed to have or the invasion of the USSR. It was brand new pristine and in the box. I bought white gas. Brand new, it has to work, right? Wrong.
Did not try it out. Never could get it to work. Realized it was some 60's era Coleman. Can't believe I did not blow myself up trying to pump and light it. Ate peanuts with my beer my first night in a Maine campground. I ended up giving the gas to people at another campground just to get rid of it and sold the stove at a garage sale. I was tied up with work and never tried it out first. Lesson learned. Now I am the geeb that weighs my stuff on the postal meter and sets up my tent in the living room.
2. Section Hike on AT: Our group was totally clueless on how to really hang a bear bag. And there was bear activity around the shelter. The NB thrus were kind and taught us how to do it right. At AT way. Not our way, when there is never really any threat of bears and such eating one's food.
I have done some stupid stuff and learned from it. I learned early to take care of my feet so I am suprised at the folks who do not take care of their feet. Other than that, I have not seen any real gear boners other than my own.

[Powder River]

I was at an outfitter in lower Manhattan the other day called Tent & Trails. This is one of the best stocked, highest quality shops I have ever seen. (They stock stuff for Everest attempts, thru hikes, etc. you name it) It is also not far from Wall Street, so I imagine they get lots and lots of customers with more money than actual outdoor equipment needs. When I went downstairs to where the tents, sleeping bags and shoes were, there were two staff guys helping out an overweight gentleman with some hiking boots. (I found out later that both the staff guys were former thru hikers.) As I was browsing the following conversation took place between the customer and the sales guy:

Staff: "So what do you plan on using those for?"
Customer: "Well, um... walking....around. I do SOME walking."
Staff: "Ok..."
Customer: "I just want to be sure that I have boots that can handle it, ya know?"

At this point I didn't catch the rest of the conversation, but I think the sales guy talked him out of them because I didn't see him walk out with them. I got a good look at the boots in question and while I can't pinpoint the brand, they looked very similar to these: http://www.rei.com/product/733952