View Full Version : campfire cooking exclusively
Johnny Appleseed
01-25-2010, 02:15
2010 AT hikers thinking of not carrying a stove should try it. I loved this method. I would get to a shelter and there would be no wood for hundreds of yards, but I would always find plenty to cook of off. People start fires for social and also selfish reasons, and when they do they use big wood. The chunks that fall off around the gathering area or pieces they passed up are all you need to cook. They neglect them, you need them=perfect. I am talking about pieces around pencil size, more and also less. and also get thick bark pieces too. It will be exciting to find wood under rhodenduron(sp?) that has been shielded from a week of rain(surprisingly easy to do). Around the 5 days to 1 week of rain point it gets tough as the ground is saturated and so is everything else, but it is fun. Always keep peanut butter and bagels, esp. in the smokies as it rains up there a lot. Remember a few big handfulls are all you need when you have some thick pieces in there. A couple of times I used someones stove for selfish reasons, but it was favor payback and not a yogi.
this post is limited as very few tried this, but I loved it. Downfalls-Most are eating by the time you strike the flame to starter. NJ does not allow fires. Also did you know that dryer lint makes a good fire starter? Try to learn from nature what to use, but good to know.
Disclaimer: I broke down and got a stove in NY, as NJ does not allow fires and I honored this, and then the rain of NY came and I hated the fact that I had done my 1 week of cold food for legal reasons then came natures need for cold food and the 2 stacked together ticked me off, but I will always appreciated how I had to do this routine for a meal. PLUS now I CAN start a fire. Just be sure to keep a walmart plastic bag to keep your cook pot in as smoke is resinous and the outside of your pot will stick to your pack and clothes. I used the same bag the whole time. And you can still use the inside of cook pot for storage of clothes, etc. Also remember any food that can be eaten warm can be eaten cold/uncooked-mashed taters, pasta/rice, etc. Obviously not meat, etc. from spoilage/bacteria.
who wants to gather wood after hiking all day? not me!
Hikes in Rain
01-25-2010, 07:12
Dryer lint is indeed a great fire starter, and it's free. (I like free!) And you're absolutely on target with the warnings of small fires and firewood. Too many folks try to cook on bonfires, and end up with burned food and a mess in the pot to clean up.
Can it be done? Sure, used to be about the only way available! And I still do it from time to time on my section hikes. It's fun, easy after you learn how, and most things just taste better from having been cooked on a fire.
But I do still carry a stove. Just in case it's soaking wet (which it seems to be every time I get to hike), I'm tired and don't want to bother, or or I'm in one of the fire-free zones.
fiddlehead
01-25-2010, 07:32
On my hike in '77, our stove blew up and we did this from the Smokies till Del. water gap.
Got good at building fires.
I found that if I grabbed a stick or two (walking stick size) a few hundred yards before the shelter, then wood was always plentiful.
Have fun. Try not to burn the woods down in the process.
Lone Wolf
01-25-2010, 08:49
i would never cook in an existing fire pit. too much crap in it
i would never cook in an existing fire pit. too much crap in it
Obviously Leave No Trace still has a lot of work to do teaching folks to take their crap out with them.
Hobo stoves are fun too, and can save on fuel, and reduce smoke, a little.
garlic08
01-25-2010, 09:57
... Also remember any food that can be eaten warm can be eaten cold/uncooked-mashed taters, pasta/rice, etc. Obviously not meat, etc. from spoilage/bacteria.
This is a good rule ALL the time--carry a few meals that don't have to be cooked, in case of stove, fuel or weather problems. Ramen are already cooked and can be eaten raw. Rolled or instant oats are already cooked (blanched), too. Refried bean mixes can be reconstituted with cold water and a little extra time. Tortillas, bagels, or crackers with cheese or peanut butter all make decent cold meals.
I did this often enough to realize I actually enjoy it more than the warm, salty glop I used to cook and now I don't even bring a pot anymore.
Tipi Walter
01-25-2010, 09:58
Humans are the only animals who cook their food, so maybe there's something about carrying no stove. On the other hand, depending on a fire for meal prep can be a real hassle in many ways:
** It takes longer and is not as efficient as using a stove(and some places you cannot have an open fire).
** It must be done twice a day if you want oatmeal for breakfast and a meal in the late afternoon.
** It's nearly impossible in a heavy rain.
** It's not much fun finding wood and doing it under a foot of snow.
** Many places are dry tinder boxes with high winds and building a fire would be crazy, especially on high open grassy balds in a strong wind.
** I'm too lazy at the end of the day to worry about a fire for cooking, and I never carry enough water to douse it to make sure it's out when I leave.
No Cook Meals vs Cooked Food
If you're out for 10 or 15 days, you can save weight by carrying a stove and fuel as your food load will be lighter than with carrying just food you can eat w/o cooking. Dehydrated meals are very light, and the weight you add to them is the water you find on the trail, so that's weight you don't have to carry. Snack foods and uncookables on the other hand have more water content and are therefore heavier, and this makes a difference on a long trip. If all you carry is food you eat right out of the food bag, well, you're food load will be heavier than using add-water cookables. This won't be true for short trips like a weekend or 4 or 5 days, but for a 2 week trip you can haul a lot of food and meals if you can add water and cook them, ergo, if you carry a stove.
Pedaling Fool
01-25-2010, 10:27
Humans are the only animals who cook their food, so maybe there's something about carrying no stove...
There's a pretty interesting theory about how cooked food has affected the evolution of our brain. http://scienceblogs.com/purepedantry/2007/06/did_cooking_allow_for_the_incr.php
Some tidbits from the above link:
"Science has a fascinating review about the history of cooking and its relation to human evolution. Richard Wrangham, a Harvard primatologist, has been pushing the idea that the expansion in Homo erectus' skull size was the result of additional energy released by cooking meat:"
"To find support for his ideas, Wrangham went to the lab to quantify the nutritional impact of cooking. He found almost nothing in food science literature and began to collaborate with physiologist Stephen Secor of the University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa, who studies digestive physiology and metabolism in amphibians and reptiles. Secor's team fed 24 Burmese pythons one of four diets consisting of the same number of calories of beef: cooked ground beef, cooked intact beef, raw ground beef, or raw intact beef. Then they estimated the energy the snakes consumed before, during, and after they digested the meat, by measuring the declining oxygen content in their metabolic chambers. Pythons fed cooked beef spent 12.7% less energy digesting it and 23.4% less energy if the meat was both cooked and ground. "By eating cooked meat, less energy is expended on digestion; therefore, more energy can be used for other activities and growth," says Secor."
As for cooking on a stove vs. an open fire; you can do it, but like anything else that is made easier by technology it's always tempting to resort to the easier method. However, I have cooked on open fire to save fuel, because I don't do town stops every 3-5 days.
.
Tuckahoe
01-25-2010, 11:30
I would like to point out that unless you are only boiling water, its not the best technique to cook over a fire. The heat from a fire is not the most controlable and its easy to burn things for the less experienced. Always best to only cook on embers if you are looking to do more than just boiling. This is why I do prefer a stove.
Rocket Jones
01-25-2010, 12:12
As for the soot on the pot, an old Scout trick is to smear a little dishsoap on the bottom before cooking. The soot comes right off while washing up.
I am planning on using a BushBuddy with Esbits as backup. But, I am a bit apprehensive b/c I haven't used it on a long distance trip yet. It might be too much of a hassle. So, my canister stove is waiting as a backup in case I want to switch out for it.
An advantage I have found in the winter is that I can boil as much water as I can find fuel for (hot water bottles in the sleeping bag, hot drinks, hot bottle in the shoes to melt them, melting snow, etc.).
Three disadvantages are: wet wood, time to boil, and the fact that I can't stop on the side of the trail and have hot water ready in 5 minutes.
I also only boil water, so regulating the temperature is not a concern.
Other easy firestarters that I have found are: vaseline cotton balls and hand sanitizer (but this needs to be kept warm in the cold).
If you see me on the trail and want to borrow the stove to save fuel, let me know.
Hikes in Rain
01-25-2010, 13:37
As for the soot on the pot, an old Scout trick is to smear a little dishsoap on the bottom before cooking. The soot comes right off while washing up.
I used that trick for many years. The end result was a rather interesting and unique pattern of soot buildup on my pot as I missed one little spot or another as the decades passed. It's kind of pretty. :sun
Blissful
01-25-2010, 13:46
A hiker in 07 loved to campfire cook for the first part of the hike. No one did it in the summer after late May, in fact, I saw no fires until Maine.
drifters quest
01-25-2010, 15:43
Just keep in mind fire restrictions. I don't know about the AT but I do know over here there are a ton of burn bans when the weather dries up. Though the Summers here in the West are generally much drier than those in the East from what i've researched.
Johnny Appleseed
01-25-2010, 18:58
Thank you for pointing out my fortitude. Of course I was hungry and ready to eat, I always was hungry. And yes I lost some time, but it was the best method for me for my desires. I did not find anyone on the AT in '06 doing this method. But I will not see Baltimore Jack w/ a t-shirt saying Johnny Appleseed is a candy ass either.
Thanks for the soap trick. Always good to know all the tricks so you can go in any direction when the need or curiosity arises.
After 1 hour of no rain I can be cooking because I can find dry enough of wood, unless the rain kept on continuosly for over 3 days, sometimes longer. I find this to be a strength of knowledge. I have always had a hard job and I do not try to find the modern convenient easy way most of the time. I guess I am pretty rare like that.
Remember use the really small wood for fires, around pencil size. There is no need for full size sticks, let alone walking stick size. Bark chunks that are thick will provide the heat long enough for boiling water, but also short enough to not leave dangerous embers that start fires or require water to put out. I would dig a cat hole 2-4" deep then bury it when all is burnt. At the bottom of the cat hole were my big bark or wood chunks and let my pencil size wood fall down to ignite them.
I remember many on the AT talk about homesteading, making your own way/organic food, etc. old lifestyles. This is one chance to actually do it. Basic and back to nature.
I hiked in 5 months 3 days, so I did not lose much time to this method.
Slo-go'en
01-25-2010, 20:33
You could use a wood burning stove - which can be as simple as a tin can with some holes punched into it. That gets around most of the "No campfire" rules, since well, its a stove!
Still, cooking with wood is a little more time consuming and doing it in the rain is a problem. I'll sometimes carry a simple wood stove and an alky stove for when wood isn't practical.
Johnny A....
Dude you'll burn down the PCT cooking on fire every night. The pct has FAR less burnables around, far less fire rings, and that stunt you pulled at Brown Mtn Creek Shelter in VA in 2006 burning all your leftovers was nasty.....that stuff was slow burning forever...
Regardless, look forward to seeing you out there this year!
Catch Up
Cooking on wood fire is a great Idea. My concern is with the impact on heavily visited areas. It takes time to grow more wood and with hundreds visitors every season, there may not be enough time to replenish it self before the next season arrives.
Johnny Appleseed
01-25-2010, 22:34
I am bringing my pocket rocket or similar device for the PCT. I have already been warned of lack of wood. Yes, as pointed out, do not try to burn leftovers, which are rare. What is really amazing is the name of the shelter is recollected. So catch-up did you look at your journal for that or was it such a nightmare burned in your mind that you remember the shelter name after these years? I am curious about that.
I also learned not to burn food wrappers. A thru hiker w/ lots of experience had me started on that for 3 days I guess, which was also around the time I was around catch-up. He claimed that landfills have tons of it going back to the earth so why not burn it. That IS FLAWED thinking. Do not do it. Then another person said that those wrappers/plastic are highly carcinogenic, so I quit. I did not have any near wildfires, so I did something right. It is best to learn from others mistakes and hammer out the rest on your own.
But when you do cook adequately for food, and not for warmth there is very little wood used. People just can't imagine how little is needed when done correctly. It takes time for me to gather because I gather the teeniest pieces. So replenishing only matters in desert or near treeline areas. The need for replenishing is when fires are for warmth. Again I have said I use the stuff others have refused to gather as being insignificant and worthless. If someone wants it for warmth fires campfire cookers don't need it. And remember no one wants to take the time to cook by fire so impact is minimal at best, for the AT.
I am surprised this thread has been so informative w/ all this participation, thanks for the help.
It was hardly a nightmare, it was more humorous than anything...I forget what it was that you were cooking, but I know it was some type of wet globby nast that wasnt exactly burning....
Brown Mtn Creek shelter was one of my favs in VA.....so its easy to remember it...awesome tent spots down below the shelter, along the creek....and that nice waterfall a few miles before....I camped out with Jukebox nearby, and Brighteyes across the creek.
To decide if something is sustainable, one thing I always ask myself, is if everyone did this, would it still be okay?
To decide if something is sustainable, one thing I always ask myself, is if everyone did this, would it still be okay?
Right on! That's the crux of the whole "Leave No Trace" ethical concept. It's the number of visitor impacts on a particular site over a short period of time. We humans have a much shorter vision of time than Mother Nature. For us an hour is a long time. For Nature a hundred years may only be a moment.
That is not a bad definition of sustainability, but its somewhat limited.
Cooking with sticks is very often more sustainable than other choices.
Depends on which sticks you use, from where,
and whether you are talking about local or global sustainability.
Generally speaking however, sticks, or dung, or whatever, is the best choice.
Way better than canister stoves.
Speaking of sustainability. What is a sustainable human population?
Some silly ass people want to overpopulate the planet and sell canister stoves.
Not much I can do about that.
But my earth includes small wood fires, depending on where I hike.
mister krabs
01-26-2010, 12:53
Speaking of sustainability. What is a sustainable human population?
R. C. Christian has the answer for you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones
There's a pretty interesting theory about how cooked food has affected the evolution of our brain. http://scienceblogs.com/purepedantry/2007/06/did_cooking_allow_for_the_incr.php
Some tidbits from the above link:
"Science has a fascinating review about the history of cooking and its relation to human evolution. Richard Wrangham, a Harvard primatologist, has been pushing the idea that the expansion in Homo erectus' skull size was the result of additional energy released by cooking meat:"
Didn't "Homo Erectus" hike the trail in '07? I always chuckled when I looked at that big 'ol head of his..........
R. C. Christian has the answer for you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones
Very interesting. Thanks for that.
Pedaling Fool
01-26-2010, 15:39
Speaking of sustainability. What is a sustainable human population?
Depends on how many stay in poverty and how many live like us lucky SOBs.
Exactly. Except there are already too many SOBs living like us.
Still, however we choose to live, the sustainable number is finite.
So we should choose to make it something more reasonable.
I doubt that we will ever agree on what is reasonable.
In a way, I hope we never do, but what we are doing now still ain't right.
I feel more and more like what it might have been like
to be a savage, conquered by idiots, damned to oblivion.
Pedaling Fool
01-26-2010, 16:29
oblivion.
I like that word.
Well,
oblivion is what you make it
I guess. :)
RichardD
01-26-2010, 17:25
I like to use my Zip woodburning stove whenever I can, it uses very little wood. I used it quite successfully last Summer on the AT through Virginia.
I wonder about the issues of using it on my planned 2011 AT thru hike.
I know that in the Sierras a no fire zone also means no woodburning stoves. I also know that some Forest Service locations consider it a stove and allow it where fires are disallowed.
Does anyone know for sure whether a wooburning stove is considered a campfire or a stove on all sections of the AT.
I am going to experiment with using Esbit tabs in the stove instead of wood for regions where fires are not allowed, failing that I will experiment with a small alcohol container in the stove. ( I also read on a forest service site that in some locations in the Sierras even Esbit is considered a fire and is disallowed, perhaps written by an overzealous ranger or perhaps actually illegal)
gipcgirl
01-26-2010, 18:07
2010 AT hikers thinking of not carrying a stove should try it. I loved this method. I would get to a shelter and there would be no wood for hundreds of yards, but I would always find plenty to cook of off. People start fires for social and also selfish reasons, and when they do they use big wood. The chunks that fall off around the gathering area or pieces they passed up are all you need to cook. They neglect them, you need them=perfect. I am talking about pieces around pencil size, more and also less. and also get thick bark pieces too. It will be exciting to find wood under rhodenduron(sp?) that has been shielded from a week of rain(surprisingly easy to do). Around the 5 days to 1 week of rain point it gets tough as the ground is saturated and so is everything else, but it is fun. Always keep peanut butter and bagels, esp. in the smokies as it rains up there a lot. Remember a few big handfulls are all you need when you have some thick pieces in there. A couple of times I used someones stove for selfish reasons, but it was favor payback and not a yogi.
this post is limited as very few tried this, but I loved it. Downfalls-Most are eating by the time you strike the flame to starter. NJ does not allow fires. Also did you know that dryer lint makes a good fire starter? Try to learn from nature what to use, but good to know.
Disclaimer: I broke down and got a stove in NY, as NJ does not allow fires and I honored this, and then the rain of NY came and I hated the fact that I had done my 1 week of cold food for legal reasons then came natures need for cold food and the 2 stacked together ticked me off, but I will always appreciated how I had to do this routine for a meal. PLUS now I CAN start a fire. Just be sure to keep a walmart plastic bag to keep your cook pot in as smoke is resinous and the outside of your pot will stick to your pack and clothes. I used the same bag the whole time. And you can still use the inside of cook pot for storage of clothes, etc. Also remember any food that can be eaten warm can be eaten cold/uncooked-mashed taters, pasta/rice, etc. Obviously not meat, etc. from spoilage/bacteria.
Aboriginal saying
White man make big fire sit far away
Blackfella make small fire sit close
happy hiker
ShelterLeopard
01-27-2010, 12:13
Aboriginal saying
White man make big fire sit far away
Blackfella make small fire sit close
happy hiker
Huh- I never thought about it that way...
Thanks for that thought, somehow puts things into perspective.
I've heard it this way...
White man make big fire, sit far, stay cold.
Indian make small fire, sit close, stay warm.
I might be missing an 'ugh' here and there. You know, to make it authentic.
Pedaling Fool
01-27-2010, 14:52
I've heard it this way...
White man make big fire, sit far, stay cold.
Indian make small fire, sit close, stay warm.
I might be missing an 'ugh' here and there. You know, to make it authentic.
I made a fire once (at a spot a little north of Neel Gap) and it was so cold I couldn't feel the heat. I gave up and crawled in my tent.
As for the size of a fire, there's probably some truth to these fables; I see it as indicative of someone that does not get out much so when they do get out they have fun and play with the fire (big fires are fun). Whereas one that lives in closer proximity to the outdoors have long gotten over that fun. Especially since they need to conserve the fuel.
It's a function of culture not ethnicity.