Just rehiked Approach Trail -- observations

[minnesotasmith]

Sunday, September 12, 2004 I went hiking on the Approach Trail. I have hiked portions of it before several times, including going from the Falls at Amicalola (1 mile from the Ranger station) to about 25 minutes hiking time past Black Gap Shelter back in what, I think, June. This time I went the whole way, starting at the Ranger Station, and going all the way to USFS 42, 0.9 miles past Springer. (Officially, that was 9.2 miles, not counting my detours.) Here are a few things I noticed during my hike that I thought might be of interest to other members of this forum.

1) I asked the Ranger at the station at Amicalola when the last thru-hiker set out from Amicalola. His response was August. I suspect he was actually referring to section hikers. He would not let me browse the log to see pack weights and departure dates of thru-hikers, citing privacy concerns.

2) The hike from the Ranger station at Amicalola is probably the hardest part of the hike. Over half of it is a straight somewhat steep gravel road with only moderate shade at best. The view of overlapping numerous green mountains(to the left as you go up) helps make up for it. As I was told by the Ranger I talked to in the Station that I had no choice as to where to park if I was possibly going to hike out of the Park overnight, there was no way out of hiking to the Falls short of hitching a ride. (He told me vehicle security was MUCH better by the Ranger station.) There were signs indicating the campground was full, FWIW. Oh, and the view of the Falls IMO is considerably better at the bottom than at the top. At the top, you can't see more than a small part of the falls (about 25' or so).

3) There were about 5 blowdowns of LARGE (2' - 4' diameter trees) across the Trail. Several of these looked like they'd been there a while, judging by the beginnings of footpaths around them. These were all at least a mile beyond the Amicalola Park, scattered randomly between there and Springer.

4) The best place to take an early break IMO is the stream with a wooden bridge about 1/2 mile past the Falls. The bridge is in great condition, with reasonably new, very clean wood, and the clean, clear stream below looks like a place you could find rainbow trout if you followed it a bit. There are fewer good large flat elevated rocks to sit partially or fully on during the 1st 3 miles or so of the Approach Trail than there are farther along on it.

5) I got asked a couple of times while still in Amicalola when passing casual hikers (water bottle only gear) if I was a "Ridgerunner". I figure that is some club or group that hikes there; I did not ask for clarification, and wish I had.

6) Starting about 2 miles before the Black Gap Shelter, trail condition in terms of foliage bushes overgrowing the Trail declined a LOT. There were innumerable bushes/plants up to 3' in height typically with tiny white or (less commonly) tiny yellow flowers that were bumblebee/yellow-jacket laden that I had to bite my lip a bit and brush by. I would gently push away the bush opposite the more populated side with my walking stick, lean towards that side, and say to myself, "I'm gonna get stung here...". I had to run from ones trying to run me off a couple of times There were repeated stretches sometimes of over 100 yards like this.

7) Generally, I got the impression that between about 2 miles out of the Amicalola Falls Park to just short of Springer, there has been substantially less hiking than elsewhere on my hike anytime recently. The blue blazes were often very old; I saw one past Black Gap that appeared white until I got within 2' of it, it was so degraded. (I think this is the one I saw last time that I thought was white.) Before people here grump at me to join the GA AT Club and do some volunteer trail maintenance, I'm ahead of you; I'm already planning on doing that later this year.

8) The 3/4 mile or so of the Trail near Springer, on the Amicalola side, started getting dark from it being late afternoon long before it did on Springer and beyond, with the Mountain between the sun and that section of the Trail.

9) I did not go take a close look at the Black Gap Shelter this time. As I approached the section of trail closest to it, I saw a white female in her 20s standing on the Trail, with her back to the Shelter. After a few more steps, I noticed another one squatting down, bare rear toward me, about 20' in the direction of the Shelter, very close to or on the side trail to the Shelter. I stopped where I was as soon as I saw the 2nd woman, and turned to my right so that I could just see the 1st woman out of the corner of my eye, and waited a couple of minutes until the 2nd woman joined her. I then walked up, exchanged hellos, asked how far it was to Springer, getting a polite (but not warm) answer. Neither woman had any visible gear, not even a water bottle; whether they had some in the Shelter, I have no idea. The situation struck me as just a bit odd, so I pushed on, when I was considering stopping there for the night.

10) Once I got onto Springer, trail conditions improved considerably. There are multiple signs letting you know you are there (including one by the GA AT Club discouraging camping on Springer's summit). One criticism was a shortage of signs or blazes to quickly show the way forward on the AT away from Springer towards USFS 42. The Springer shelter area has a GREAT privy, though! :clap It was clean, large, airy, little or no odor (this was on a day that hit the 80s), looked practically new, was raised up 3' or so above the ground, etc. (According to the map on a post near the entrance to the camping/Shelter area, there is a 2nd privy, which I did not take go take a look at.) If there was negligible chance of rain, IMO the flat area of the ramp leading to the privy (clean, virtually new wood) would actually be a more attractive place to sleep than in the Shelter itself, as the Shelter looked like it had been located in a rainforest for years, given its dark dankness. The Springer Shelter was thoroughly swept out, had a good-condition broom there, and a nearly unwritten-in trail register (one page with writing) in a ziploc bag, but with no pen or pencil. (So, bring your own pencil for the registers, I'd suggest.) A tarp to lie on in the Springer Shelter would be imperative, no matter how dry the weather. In general, except for the Shelter being old, the Springer camping area was very well-maintained, adequately marked, clean, and fresh-looking.

11) There was a side trail terminating on Springer named after some guy (with odd-looking white squares turned on end for blazes), but I did not go down it.

12) The far side of Springer had the first real mud I saw that day, with black mud patches of about 4' length in around 5 places. Apparently Springer Mtn. has a # of tiny springs along that side. I am fairly confident that they could be followed downhill to easily used water sources. In general, even though it had not rained in over 3 days, the soil (but not the rocks) was still just a bit damp; let's hear it for Georgia clay.

13) Coming off Springer, I encountered a couple (white, 40s) with no gear, and 2 Standard brown Dachsunds. This was only about 1/4 mile the other side of Springer. Their pooches barked at me a bit, and they apologized for them. I told them that I like dogs, that dogs get a lot of leeway with me, but CATS get none.;) We chatted for a bit, telling them I'd come from Amicalola. When I told them that I was hoping to find someone to hitch a ride from back to Amicalola from USFS 42, as my left knee was bothering me a bit, else I'd camp at Springer and limp back the next day, they wonderfully volunteered to give me a lift back to Amicalola!! Trail magic!! They drove 15 miles out of their way to get me back to my truck, and wouldn't even let me give them $5.00 for gas.

14) USFS 42 is a flat, wide, excellent-condition gravel road, which would be zero problem for cars to drive in dry weather, and not much more in wet. It had an excellent, roomy parking lot with about 4 vehicles just across the road from where the Trail from Springer hit USFS 42. There were no facilities or trash cans. The best place to sit and have a snack was a large rock towards the back left of the parking lot, by where the AT continues NE-ward. There was a notice indicating that they do not charge for use of that parking lot anymore.

Anyway, hope this is of interest to someone here. Next time I'm going to start at USFS 42 on a Saturday morning, hike further along the AT, doing an overnighter. The time after that, I'll probably drive to Neels Gap, and start there.

[Lone Wolf]

"There was a side trail terminating on Springer named after some guy...". Now that's funny. :D

[minnesotasmith]

I think the side trail was named after Benton McKaye, now that I think about it. BTW, I'll bet there are a BUNCH of new blowdowns on the Approach Trail now, after Hurricane Ivan. Certainly, it will take until at least after Monday 9/20 for the Trail to dry out most of the way, judging from my previous experiences on it. I live about 30 miles from Amicalola, so have some idea from comparing the rain I've been getting at home with what I find on the Approach Trail when I go up there how long it takes to dry out to various degrees.

[Lone Wolf]

Yup. I knew that. I just thought you were being funny.

[minnesotasmith]

I have concentrated on what hiking the Trail is like in my reading, both in books and online. I really did have to think to remember the name of the man the side trail from Springer is named after. Anyway, there are a number of recent first-hand observations about the Approach Trail I took the time to type up and post here on this thread; don't you see at least some utility to Georgia hikers in them?

[MOWGLI]

I think the side trail was named after Benton McKaye, now that I think about it.

Yes, the Benton MacKaye Trail is marked with white diamonds. This trail currently goes from Springer to the Ocoee River - a total length of 93 miles. By the end of 2005 it will total 275 miles - and end at Davenport Gap at the north end of the Smokies. The trail is an excellent alternative to the AT between Springer & Davenport Gap.

[Blue Jay]

Damn, now I've got another 275 to do. You guys are NOT helping my hiking jones.

[LionKing]

What about 15 man? WHAT ABOUT 15??????????

Lone Wolf makes me laugh!:D

That was a vary thorough description for the Approach trail, if you do that with the whole hike you will have a book that would make a fine coffee table, but pert(Thats right PERT) near impossible to carry.

[max patch]

10) Once I got onto Springer, trail conditions improved considerably. There are multiple signs letting you know you are there (including one by the GA AT Club discouraging camping on Springer's summit). One criticism was a shortage of signs or blazes to quickly show the way forward on the AT away from Springer towards USFS 42. The Springer shelter area has a GREAT privy, though! :clap It was clean, large, airy, little or no odor (this was on a day that hit the 80s), looked practically new, was raised up 3' or so above the ground, etc. (According to the map on a post near the entrance to the camping/Shelter area, there is a 2nd privy, which I did not take go take a look at.) If there was negligible chance of rain, IMO the flat area of the ramp leading to the privy (clean, virtually new wood) would actually be a more attractive place to sleep than in the Shelter itself, as the Shelter looked like it had been located in a rainforest for years, given its dark dankness. The Springer Shelter was thoroughly swept out, had a good-condition broom there, and a nearly unwritten-in trail register (one page with writing) in a ziploc bag, but with no pen or pencil. (So, bring your own pencil for the registers, I'd suggest.) A tarp to lie on in the Springer Shelter would be imperative, no matter how dry the weather. In general, except for the Shelter being old, the Springer camping area was very well-maintained, adequately marked, clean, and fresh-looking.


The Springer shelter is actually only about 10 years old. The original Springer shelter was helicoptered at that time to its current location at Black Gap.

[minnesotasmith]

It's the SUMMIT of Springer where everything really started to look well-maintained again, as it did in and relatively near Amicalola. Climbing the flanks of Springer from the direction of Amicalola, it still kind of seemed like a trail that was slowly being abandoned to the weeds...

[LionKing]

... have you spent on trail maintaining?

Do you realize how many people, old and young, male and female, dirty and clean work for zero money to make the hard easier and the impossible possible?
Although sometimes it seems they make them just the oppisite, they still do it.

Maybe those trouble areas would be a good place for youto start, that way next year,(Or next week) some other hiker can say..."Damn...this place is awesome, so glad someone else cares enough to make it this way"

LK







It's the SUMMIT of Springer where everything really started to look well-maintained again, as it did in and relatively near Amicalola. Climbing the flanks of Springer from the direction of Amicalola, it still kind of seemed like a trail that was slowly being abandoned to the weeds...

[minnesotasmith]

From point #7:

"Before people here grump at me to join the GA AT Club and do some volunteer trail maintenance, I'm ahead of you; I'm already planning on doing that later this year."

[LionKing]

From point #7:

"Before people here grump at me to join the GA AT Club and do some volunteer trail maintenance, I'm ahead of you; I'm already planning on doing that later this year."
PLANNING...this means you have not yet, it means you may or may not if the mood strikes you.
Dont take offense at what I say because I speak the truth on this.
Instead of seeing the shortcomings, look for the beauty.

Instead of finding out what is wrong in what I say, or with what you do or do not agree with it, get what you can out of it and roll on.

obviously it made you think, because you thought it important enough to respond and point out my 'shortcomings' of not reading(Which I did thank you--all 14 of them) points of interest.


Im just saying...after you do the work, see if you feel the same way that you do here right now...about the trail, or the people responsible, or me and others typing on a netboard our personal opinions of what might be the core of the issue.

If you read back your 14 points, and ask and hike and study you will find that:

1) If he said August, he probally meant August...as there are people who flipflop, backtrack, blue blaze, aqua blaze, yellowblaze, Pink Blaze...etc...and maybe that thru-hiker was finishing the Southern half...you just never know.

2) Shade? Hitch in, and out from wherever, it is easier and safer then you might think. The top of falls is better, cuz it means you already hiked up, and that part is done. (Yes, I know you mean the view)

3) In Nature Trees fall rather regularly, especially during early fall, and in the middle of Hurricane season. They are just whacky that way. Not enough people to help move them, but plenty of people aroudn to point out why they are annoying...it is just as easy to walk over then or under them then to destroy new land. Some are just too lazy to do that.

4) You can sit on any rock, and did you say CLEAN????

5) Ridgerunner= A hiker who maintains and informs the uninformed about Leave No Trace, proper poop burial, decent behavior to those out in the woods, keeping fires small, not leaving your crap around for someone else to complain about...etc...usually(But not always) they are thru-hikers from the year before who love the woods so much they dig the job.

6) Bees and their kin can buzz all around you, land on you and make sweet love to your fleece, and as long as you dont fan at them swat at them or curse their mothers, they ususally will never sting you. Seriously.
Its always entertaining to watch someone who never hikes do the "AHHHHHHHHH A BEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!" run and dash.

7) It is actually cool they let the blazes fade...the trail, in my experiance, has been easy to follow almost anywhere...not everywhere..but down south, for sure. But I do love me a blue blaze.

8) Shadows of a mountian do get dark when the sun goes behind them. Again, nature is crazy that way.

9) Odd that someone out for a day hike no more then 6 miles from the ranger station would have nothing? Seems normal. Or the whole peeing thing? Maybe they were ridgerunners...oh wait, they didnt have water bottles did they?

10) Dark Dankness...I like that.

11) Answered...Benton.

12) Mud is imported from Vermont and placed randomly through out the A.T....in 4' squares.

13) The old limp works everytime for a ride...almost as good as having a cute girl hiking with you. Im always jealous of girls cuz they get rides with almost...did you say Standard Brown Dachsund???????

14) Cool.

See I read it.:banana:banana:banana:banana:banana:banana:bana na

PS

Just joshin with ya.

[stupe]

re:(13) You should speak to a therapist about your issues with cats. Sounds like you're afraid of something.

[Frosty]

... have you spent on trail maintaining?

Do you realize how many people, old and young, male and female, dirty and clean work for zero money to make the hard easier and the impossible possible?
Although sometimes it seems they make them just the oppisite, they still do it.

Maybe those trouble areas would be a good place for youto start, that way next year,(Or next week) Jeez, lighten up on the guy. He didn't post to complain about the trail, and if you read what he wrote, he wasn't complaining,

He hiked the trail and provided observations on the condition of the trail. I find that useful, and thak him for taking the time to post his observations.

[Jersey Bob]

re:(13) You should speak to a therapist about your issues with cats. Sounds like you're afraid of something.That one got to me too.

[LionKing]

I meant zero harm.

I have heard(and from my lips as well on bad days) people complaining about the trail...I am just saying that those how do work on the trail are a fine and amazingly underappreciated group who deserve love of the big fat chunky tasty kind.

And I do see how the post could help in ways for sure.








Jeez, lighten up on the guy. He didn't post to complain about the trail, and if you read what he wrote, he wasn't complaining,

He hiked the trail and provided observations on the condition of the trail. I find that useful, and thak him for taking the time to post his observations.

[minnesotasmith]

I started this thread with the sole intention of attempting to be helpful in a small way to someone who may hike the Approach Trail in the future, not to cut anyone down.

Jersey Bob and stupe, I described where I made a crack about cats while in a conversation with someone on the Trail in order to give a complete picture of my day while hiking. My "issues" with cats are that every dwelling I've ever been inside that had cats in it for any length of time was IMO avoidably not adequately clean. The d*mned things shed hair everywhere, claw up both wood and fabric sections of furniture, routinely jump up on kitchen counters and tables, investigate stovetops and dish drainboards, etc. The cat owners I have seen generally have some kind of mental block where they never figure out that cats cannot be trained out of these sorts of behavior completely incompatible with a dwelling being used by humans; at best, the cats mostly learn to do them when the owner is not looking, and still do this kind of BS daily in most cases. At least dogs can be (and routinely are) kept outside if they have fur that is not the type that require clipping (are shedders), and I've never personally seen a dog on top of a kitchen table or counter. Dogs also have a much better personality IMO; they have loyalty, feel guilt if they transgress, etc., not to mention they excrete outside the house, unlike most supposedly-smarter cats. (How many cats have ever saved someone's life, or risked their own fighting an intruding animal or human to protect someone who was part of their household?)

A friend of mine's mentally-ill aging mother has approximately 24 cats in her house, of whom about half have some kind of visible problem (massive mange, 0 - 1 sighted eyes, can barely walk, yowl in pain with every step, etc.). Her house smells like a badly-maintained livestock rendering plant in July; there are claw marks all over all wooden furniture in her house (some of which was expensive antiques before she brought it home); and, there are 2"+ thick layers of hair on every (and I mean EVERY) horizontal surface. Great advertisement for owning cats, huh?:eek: The only good thing about cats IMO is not their rodent control abilities (in my experience traps and poison are more effective); it's that they identify with breathtaking accuracy women that it's best for normal guys to steer clear of, if the women in question currently own more than two cats. I don't want to get into a conversation about the desirability of owning cats beyond this paragraph, so don't tell me how your "boxer-rat" is SO sweet, an exception on the hair (is it bald or needs clipping? No? Then it's a shedder, and belongs the f*** outside, 100.00% of the time), etc., yadda, yadda. I simply wanted to establish that I have IMO perfectly valid reasons (completely consonant with excellent mental health) with not caring to have anything to do with cats in my life. Do what you want WRT cats in your life, but if you have the nasty things living in your house, I definitely wouldn't want to ever eat any food prepared there.

(Again, let this be the end of the discussion on cats, please. This thread was intended to be about hiking.)

LionKing, if you must know, I have had difficulty finding permanent employment here in GA that pays adequately. The $40 that the GA AT Club charges for membership is not a trivial amount to me at the moment, nor are the costs associated with their trips. (I am hiking with a POS backpack at this time because I cannot currently afford to get a better one, and don't believe that poverty should keep me from hiking in the meantime.) You need to be a paid member before you can participate in their activities. I have their membership application on my computer's hard drive, and fully intend to formally join the same day I get my first decent paycheck here. Short of not setting foot on the Trail again until I have joined and have participated in some of their trail maintenance outings, I don't know what else I can do that would make you happy in this regard.

I also don't think it would be wise for me to start doing trail maintenance on my own, without any guidance from more experienced Trail people. "First, do no harm", right? Plus, I don't own a chainsaw or brushwhacking tools, and an uncertain what I could do to improve the Trail without them, alone. (If I had seen litter on the Trail, I assure you I would have picked it up and packed it out.) Surely you don't think that the first time a hiker sets foot on a section of trail, that they should be expected to be there for trail maintenance? This was the second time that I had been on the Approach Trail outside of Amicalola, and the first time I had been to or past the summit of Springer.

Anyway, getting back to the original subject, the above is what I saw when I hiked the Approach Trail in its entirety less than a week ago, and hope that some forum members will find some value (or at least entertainment) in some of it.

HYOH.

[orangebug]

Settle down. Cats suck, but so does everything/one else from time to time.

Regarding the GATC, membership requires participation in volunteer activities before you get to donate the $40. I've been on one trail maintenance project, and had a blast with a bunch of newby GSU students, old folks and grey beards like me. It cost me gasoline and money for a meal and drink. The students had a bus from school. I wore hiking clothes and brought work gloves. They supplied all of the tools and equipment, as well as direction how to grade, make stone steps and crib trail along the hill. They also offer administrative types of volunteer activity.

And don't sweat the cheap POS gear. You've got gear! You've probably got better gear than got anyone from here to Maine for most of the past 50 years. You've also got good eyes and observation powers, including knowledge/intuition of trail ettiquette. Most of us brag about the cheap stuff from Big Lots, Tuesday Morning, Salvation Army and the like.

You'll do well. Don't worry about the stinging insects.

Bill...

[Dances with Mice]

...fully intend to formally join the same day I get my first decent paycheck here. Short of not setting foot on the Trail again until I have joined and have participated in some of their trail maintenance outings, ...

First: Whoa, stop, wait! You do NOT have to be a member of the GA ATC to participate in Trail maintenance or most other activities. Guests (non-members) are very welcome, especially on Trail maintenance work trips. Matter of fact, participation in 3 (or 4? I forget) activities within a year is required before you can become a full member.

If you would like to know when & where the next trail maintenance activities are, I would be glad to IM you the information. Just show up, the Club provides the tools, instructions, guidance, and plenty of opportunity for practical application of your new skills. And you meet some really cool people. The rock step builders in Georgia are real artists. And I can walk along some portions of Trail and remember when I worked on it, or see a water bar and know just by its construction who probably built it.

Second: I enjoyed your trip report. You might have mentioned where water was available along the way - you mentioned the stream and bridge right after the top of the Falls, and that's good. There's also treated water available at the rest room located on the Approach Trail right before the top of the Falls. That's important information, really, because nobody has to carry a full water load up from the Visitor's Center, just a half-liter at most. There's also water off a blue-blaze trail from the summit of Frosty Mtn, though I've never been down there. And there's a reliable, marked spring that I seem to remember being about 30 minutes or so south of Black Gap shelter. Water at Black Gap is down a long blue-blaze trail. The spring on Springer Mtn. is piped but may not be reliable in dry weather. It's probably gushing right now, though. The Trail up the ridge to Frosty I remember as being pretty rocky.

My opinion is that a little roughness and raggedness isn't all a bad thing. If the Trail isn't being eroded, trail intersections are marked, and headbanging branches are trimmed then I'm satisfied. A little brush encroachment and a couple blow down walk arounds are all part of a wilderness trail.

[MisterSweetie]

(How many cats have ever saved someone's life, or risked their own fighting an intruding animal or human to protect someone who was part of their household?)

I can think of one. ;)

http://www.thesimpsons.com/bios/images/bios_family_snowball1.gif
(That's Snowball, the Simpson's kitty.)

:lol: Just messing with ya. I hiked the Approach Trail, but it's been years. Thanks for the review.

[minnesotasmith]

Orangebug, Dances With Mice, that what I was led to understand in the exchanges I have had with two GA AT Club officers (both by e-mail, one by phone). I understood what they told me that you have to BOTH pay the forty bucks AND participate in a trail-maintenance activity (as well as several officially organized hikes) before you were a member in good standing. I also believed that you had to pay the money before you could go on Club activities; perhaps they meant you could not go on HIKES until you'd paid, but that wasn't how it sounded to me.

DWM, post your e-mail addy, and I'll send you mine. I'd be happy to get the current list of their upcoming trail maintenance outings.

Sorry I did not post more info on where water can be found on the Approach Trail. There is a sign right in the middle of the Trail around midway between the Falls and Black Gap that points toward water with the word "WATER" right on it. The Hike-Inn trail intersects the Approach Trail there as well, if memory serves. I got in the habit when I hiked out West to carry a large amount of water with me, as well as guzzling large volumes of water right before leaving on my hike. I normally carry 4 - 5 quarts of water just for a day hike. Thus, I don't feel I have to carry my Katadyne with me or go to water sources when I'm just out for the day, or overnight. Good point that water source info is a high-pri for any hiker, though.

As far as rocks to sit on while taking a breather while hiking the Approach Trail, most of them of any size have a knife edge sticking UP. It'd be like sitting on a dull saw blade, or worse. Naahhh; not being from San Francisco, I'll pass...;)

I agree that honeybees don't generally bother those who don't bother them. However, bumblebees, yellowjackets, and wasps (all of which were abundant on my hike, where ever those tiny white or yellow flowers were on the Trail) in my experience are rather more aggressive. I've been bitten by the things with no provocation in the past, just walking along. I'm not allergic to their stings (though I have a sibling who is), but just don't consider a couple of wasp stings to be a regrettable part of the hiking experience if I don't get them.;) Do notice that I did NOT turn back when the choice was between risking some stings, and cutting my hike short...

[Lone Wolf]

I like my two cats. The approach trail sucks. Get a ride to the base of Springer.

[highway]

Minnesotasmith:
I liked the approach trail, I enjoyed reading your "Approach Trail Observation" post and find no reason to criticize you for any of it. :)

[Hikerhead]

I'm glad we did the approach trail on our trip to Ga. If we didn't, we would have missed the AYCE buffet at the lodge, It's a must do.

I thought the trail was in perfect shape in April. I few walk arounds or walk overs here and there, nothing more. This was before the leaves had came out so overgrowth on the trail was not a problem.

If you really want to do some trailwork, take a pair of long handled loppers on your next hike and trim back anything you want hanging on the trail. You'll get a lot of "ata boy's" from passing hikers I'm sure.

I liked your report.

[minnesotasmith]

Glad you found value or interest in my posts here. Dances With Mice, I would be happy to get that list of upcoming GA AT trail maintenance activities from you (or whomever has it).

LW, you own CATS?!? That explains a lot. :-? ;)

Out of curiosity, LW, what is it exactly about the AT up to about 20 miles or so past Springer that you consider notably superior to the Approach Trail? I'm not at all saying you are wrong in your opinion here; I've not hiked more of the Appalachian Trail than a mile past Springer, excepting only 63 miles in NC more than 20 years ago as a Boy Scout. I'm just curious as to what led you to that conclusion. As I will go out next weekend to hike some of it, I'd enjoy anticipating some of what I'll be encountering, so any substantive reply here would be much appreciated.

Hikerhead, I don't own a pair of pruning shears or the like, and cannot justify the expense of buying one pre-good-job. (If you saw what I am using for an overnight backpack right now, you wouldn't suggest I go buy one, trust me.) I can't really take my lawn mower to Frosty Mtn., and don't see how a broom, shovel, or rake (all of which I do currently own) would help much on trail maintenance, not when blowdowns and brush overgrowths are 90% of what is wrong with the Approach Trail right now. Anyway, once it gets crisply cool outside, and the Hymenoptera go 'way during the day, it will be the better time to mess with their favored bushes (e.g., with pruning shears). Of course, if the flowers that attract them drop off those bushes sooner rather than later, it would be all moot. Frankly, I'm kind of surprised at how many flowers I still see around here in mid-September, especially in the mountains. When DO the flowers all die off here (in N. GA)?

Adding to what I posted about the Approach Trail, IMO its reputation as being steep and arduous is way overrated. The sections of really serious uphill are usually only 50 yards or so long, often sets of stairs, such as those leaving the Falls parking lot area, or after crossing a gravel road. There are sections of hundreds of yards that are predominantly or solely uphill, but fairly gently so. I strongly suspect that people who go on and on about the Approach Trail being tough are either overloaded, out of shape, and/or have just forgotten what moderately significant physical exertion feels like, and are giving way too much significance in their minds to sweating a bit. Those few places where it is rather steep for a few yards alone IMO fully justified lugging a proper walking stick. While they are handy on steep uphills, they are priceless on steep downs. I have been saved instantly from more than one possible sprain or fall while hiking this summer by judicious use of my stick. (It's a nice, solid oak one I got from a deadfall, and doubles for use on overly agressive stray dogs when I walk near my residence.) ;) Anyway, knee overstrain seems to me by far most likely on those steep uphill sections, so be warned... ;)

[Dances with Mice]

Orangebug, Dances With Mice, that what I was led to understand in the exchanges I have had with two GA AT Club officers (both by e-mail, one by phone). I understood what they told me that you have to BOTH pay the forty bucks AND participate in a trail-maintenance activity (as well as several officially organized hikes) before you were a member in good standing. I also believed that you had to pay the money before you could go on Club activities; perhaps they meant you could not go on HIKES until you'd paid, but that wasn't how it sounded to me.

DWM, post your e-mail addy, and I'll send you mine. I'd be happy to get the current list of their upcoming trail maintenance outings.

I see the problem! Unless you talked with the membership director, the other officers, bless their hearts, might not be real sharp on the whole membership/prospective membership details. So let's go to the source: http://www.georgia-atclub.org/membership.html


To become a member of the GATC you must first participate in the Club's activities as a prospective member. To qualify for membership, you must participate in three GATC-sponsored activities within a twelve month period. Of the three activities one (1) must be a trail maintenance trip, one (1) must be a prospective member orientation meeting, and the other activity may be your choice.


Non-members may participate in Club activities as guests of active members or after applying to the Membership Director.

OK, so 3 events, one must be an orientation meeting, one a trail work trip, and another event of your choice, could be a hike. Two trail maintenance trips would count.

Nonmembers may participate if they are invited by a member or they've submitted an application. I see kind of a Catch-22 for you, in that it's hard to get invited if you don't know another member and can't afford to apply. After you've submitted your application you'll start receiving the Club's monthly bulletin with a list of upcoming activities.

And from the downloadable membership form, the application fee is only $30!
So you're already ten bucks closer to being a member than you thought you were.

[minnesotasmith]

BTW, here is a link to info on the Approach Trail I think you gave me a couple of months ago: http://www.n2backpacking.com/destinations/georgia/ATGA/ATGA0%204_94D.htm

Also, when I hiked the Approach Trail back in June up to about 20 minutes or so past the Black Gap Shelter, it was in considerably better shape. There were less than half as many blowdowns, and the brush overgrowth onto the Trail was much less.

[Dances with Mice]

Check your Private Messages for my e-mail contact and the contacts for the next two Trail maintenance sections. I don't want to put my e-mail here.

[minnesotasmith]

Thank you very much for it. BTW, when I next see the Approach Trail, I'll let everyone know how it fared from Ivan (my hike 6 days ago was post-Frances).

Hikerhead, I suspect you may want other people to know more about the hotel near Amicalola. Here is a link to it: http://www.hike-inn.com/

Note that you can't bring dogs, and that rooms cost $140 total for two adults, or $97 for single occupancy: http://www.hike-inn.com/reservations.asp
It's way too pricy for me right now, but others may find it worthwhile.

Here is a deep link to their picture gallery:http://www.hike-inn.com/pictures.asp

[Hikerhead]

I was referring to the AYCE at the Lodge at Amicalola State Park. The buffet is on for breakfast, lunch and supper I just learned. I thought it was just for dinner. If we had known that I think we would have walked back down for breakfast after camping the first night only 1/2 mile away. :datz

http://www.naturallybusiness.com/georgia/lodges/amicalola/

[minnesotasmith]

I was unaware that there was more than one commerical entity up above the Falls at Amicalola (the hotel and the lodge). Knowing that there are BUFFETS (AYCEs to the Yankees ;) ) 3x a day a stone's throw from the Approach Trail is nice to know. I think I know where I'll have breakfast the morning before I start my through-hike, not to mention some other times...

At that site, I could not find any prices for their chow. Is it an "if you have to ask, you can't afford it" deal? IMO, that they offer booze is not a good sign re the price; not that I'm against that, rather that places that offer it often cost more than they would otherwise. (I've never seen a Ryan's, Western Sizzler, Golden Corral, or cheapo Chinese buffet restaurant bother with getting a liquor license.)

[Hikerhead]

Glad to have been of some help. It seems to me the dinner was 10 or 12 bucks. A bit pricey but it was G. O. O. D....yummy! I imagine breakfast and lunch wouldn't be quite as much.

[Hikerhead]

I just made a call to the lodge. The AYCE dinner tonight is 14.95 serving roast beef...tomorrow it's 10.95 serving spaghetti. Dinner AYCE is 7 days a week.

And it seems like the only other buffet they serve is a sunday brunch for 12.95.

A little high but well worth it especially if you're not sure you're ever be back.

I can't imagine being a sobo and arriving at that long table of food. They need one of these in Baxter. Who do I complain to.. ;)

[minnesotasmith]

Within an hour or so of a really big meal, what is there at least a 50% chance of needing to do? :eek: , then :p ...

Hint: www.vintageairstream.com/ myrtle_tour_details.html
www.galleymaid.com/ toilets.htm

Many people would probably not want to need to do this in the woods right away on a day hike, so that is a possible concern after making sure you got your money's worth at a buffet 10 minutes before you hit the Trail. I carry TP and wet wipes every hike more than 1/2 mile from a john, and have all the strength required to squat or lean as necessary, so I get by in that area, but why take a big risk of making nonstoical newbies get discombobulated right at the beginning of their hikes?

[Hikerhead]

[QUOTE=minnesotasmith]Sunday, September 12, 2004 I went hiking on the Approach Trail. I have hiked portions of it before several times, including going from the Falls at Amicalola (1 mile from the Ranger station) to about 25 minutes hiking time past Black Gap Shelter back in what, I think, June.


Hikerhead, I suspect you may want other people to know more about the hotel near Amicalola. Here is a link to it: http://www.hike-inn.com/


I was unaware that there was more than one commerical entity up above the Falls at Amicalola (the hotel and the lodge). Knowing that there are BUFFETS (AYCEs to the Yankees ) 3x a day a stone's throw from the Approach Trail is nice to know. I think I know where I'll have breakfast the morning before I start my through-hike, not to mention some other times...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Minnesotasmith---Something ain't quite right here. How could you not see the 5 story lodge at the top of the falls?:-? Maybe it's just me, if so I apologize for asking. I usually don't point out errors because I make a zillion of them myself.

[Frosty]

They need one of these in Baxter. Who do I complain to.. ;)No complaining until you join the MATC and help serve the food :)

[Hikerhead]

:) You're right... shame on me for even thinking of that.

BUT....can you even buy a hotdog in Baxter State Park? I've never read anything about any kind of a food service there. I've never been there so I'm just wondering.

[minnesotasmith]

"How could you not see the 5 story lodge at the top of the falls?"

I noticed one building up there. I was far more aware of the Ranger station (bathrooms, water, phone, maps, gear to buy if needed, knowledgeable people to ask Park questions of) near the entrance to the Park, and the building at the top of the Falls (bathrooms, water, drink machine) right by where the Approach Trail heads toward the border of the Park because I would likely use them. An expensive hotel had absolutely no relevance to a broke guy who was there in the first place to hike.

[Hikerhead]

My bad. Happy hiking.

[minnesotasmith]

From what I've seen of your posts, you're an OK guy by me.

BTW, didn't you find my #35 post on this thread amusing? I thought my use of emoticons was novel and hilarious (look closely at the first four lines of it...) :D

I thought it illustrated a serious hiking issue in a way that wouldn't be easily forgotten, too.:-?

[Hikerhead]

Yes very amusing but I don't believe it's a big issue.

[minnesotasmith]

I guess you don't hit buffets nearly as hard as I do. As far as that part of training for through-hiking, it looks like I'm ahead of you! :D

[Hikerhead]

Trust me, I hit em real hard.

Here's a little hiking trick that might be good for you. It's worked like a charm for me in the past.

Instead of carrying food. Carry 4 rolls of toilet paper. When you get to a shelter, just barter your TP for food. TP weighs less, cost a lot less too. It's a win win. The reason this works so well is that everyone else is worried about carrying enough food and forget about the TP. You'll be the hero of the shelter.

[minnesotasmith]

Even if that worked with other hikers, HH (and it might well work, I won't say it won't), if I get to the shelter and I'm the only one that shows up, I would be seriously SOL. Surely you meant to suggest I carry somewhat less food and somewhat more TP, with an eye to trading my surplus TP for extra chow? That, I could see.

BTW, this is a great subject for a thread all its own: "Stuff to bring to trade with other hikers for stuff that is more expensive or heavier than is the stuff you brought to trade".

[orangebug]

If I recall correctly, the placement of the Lodge lends to reduce its view from the trail. It has great mountain scenery, but not much of a view of the falls or the approach trail. There are plenty of trees shielding the hiker as he passes the Lodge on his right before crossing the road and heading across to the stream and bridge.

I think you could miss that 5 story building.

[minnesotasmith]

Someone here at WhiteBlaze showed me a link where this info is available. For anyone reading this thread who doesn't know about that site, this may be of interest to you:



<TABLE height=220 width="75%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width="41%" height=139>Distance: 8.1 miles

Difficulty: Strenuous
Elevation: 3190 feet
USGS Quad: Nimblewill, Noontoola <HR color=#003300 SIZE=1>Camping: 7.1 mi - Black Gap Shelter, 8.1 mi Springer Mtn Shelter

Water Availablity: 1.4 mi - Little Amacalola Creek, 4.6mi - wet weather spring, 7.1mi - near black gap shelter, 8.1 mi- spring near Springer Mtn Shelter
Blaze: Blue
Management: Toccoa Ranger District
</TD><TD width="9%" height=139></TD><TD vAlign=top width="50%" colSpan=3 height=139>Region: North Central

Subregion: Springer Mountain
County: Dawson
Nearest City: Dahlonega
Trail Type: Point to Point

</TD></TR><TR><TD width="65%" colSpan=3 height=19></TD><TD vAlign=top width="4%" height=228 rowSpan=15>



</TD><TD vAlign=top width="31%" height=21></TD></TR><TR><TD width="65%" background=ApproachTrailDescrip_files/bg_dk_greenstone.jpg bgColor=#003300 colSpan=3 height=19>Description</TD></TR><TR><TD width="57%" colSpan=3 height=16>In terms of distance calculation, the trail begins under the archway at the Amacalola Falls State Park visitor center. You can also pick up the trail from the top of the falls parking lot if you like. This cuts about a mile off the total distance.


From the top of the falls the trail shares foot path with the Len Foote Hike Inn trail for a short distance and then forks to the left. The trail to the Inn continues upward to the right. For the sake of completeness, this description will begin at the official trailhead behind the visitor center.

The trailhead is impossible to miss. It begins as a log-lined walkway leading away from the back of the visitor center at 1790 ft and wastes no time getting down to business. The first 0.5 miles begins the easy to moderate climb to East Ridge Spring. From there, the trail becomes steeper and begins a series of switchbacks and sharper grades before finally turning left onto an old road at 0.7 miles. The left side of the road is a good spot to catch your breath and take in the views of the ridges and valleys.

You'll pass through the top of the falls parking area where a short jaunt to the left allows you to take in the beauty of the falls. Restrooms are also available here. From the parking area, the Approach Trail skirts the former shoreline of Amacalola Lake. At 1.4 miles, the trail crosses Little Amacalola Creek and a dirt road which eventually becomes FS 46. The trail crosses the road and climbs a moderate grade for the next 0.3 miles. Red blazes indicate that you are leaving the State Park and entering the Chattahoochee National Forest.

The trail eventuall hits the ridgeline and levels out. It follows the ridge top contour, running level at first, then climbing easily to a crest at 2940 ft, then easily downward to a gap at 2.4 miles. From there it climbs up and over the next knob.

The trail leaves the ridge at mile 2.8 and begins a moderate to strenuous climb to High Shoals Rd at mile 3.1. After crossing the road, the trail continues to ascend to a flat headed knob at mile 3.3. The trail then breaks from the ridge at the next gap and begins to climb the western slope of Frosty Mountain to mile 4.0. From there, the trail follows th eeastern ridge to the mountain top. A moderate climb rewards the hiker with the summit at mile 4.4. At 4.6 miles the trail enters a clearing and crosses the highest point on Frosty Mountain (3382 ft). A trail to the right of the clearing leads to a fairly reliable spring.

From Frosty Mountain, the trail descends steadily to another crossing with FS 46 at 5.0 miles. The trail remains level briefly and then begins to climb again along an easy to moderate grade over the double humps of Woody Knob at 3390 ft. From the knob, it descends steeply to Nimblewill Gap at mile 5.9 (3049 ft). The Gap occurs where FS46 dead ends into FS 28.

The remaining 2.2 miles from Nimblewill Gap to Springer Mountain gradually climbs the west side of Black Mountain, then descends to Black Gap (3190 ft) at 7.1 miles. Black Gap Shelter can be found to the left of the trail adjacent to the gap. From Black Gap, the path follows a series of switchbacks up the western side of Springer Mountain. The trail terminates at a rock outcropping where the AT begins (3782 ft). Two plaques mark the beginning of the Appalachian Trail. The approach trail is also known as the East Ridge Trail while it is in Amacalola Falls State Park.
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="31%" height=305 rowSpan=13>
<META content="Microsoft FrontPage 4.0" name=GENERATOR><META content=FrontPage.Editor.Document name=ProgId><TABLE height=64 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=80 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=80 colSpan=3 height=8></TD></TR><TR><TD width=8 height=48></TD><TD width=64 height=48>"] ("file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Owner/Desktop/ApproachTrailDescrip_files/Ad_48_1_thumb.jpg[/img)</TD><TD width=8 height=48></TD></TR><TR><TD width=80 colSpan=3 height=8></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>







</TD></TR><TR><TD width="41%" height=19></TD><TD width="9%" height=19></TD><TD width="15%" height=19></TD></TR><TR><TD width="65%" background=ApproachTrailDescrip_files/bg_dk_greenstone.jpg bgColor=#003300 colSpan=3 height=19>Highlights</TD></TR><TR><TD width="65%" colSpan=3 height=1>1.1 mi - View of Amacalola Falls

8.1 mi - Southern Terminous of the Appalachian Trail
</TD></TR><TR><TD width="41%" height=19></TD><TD width="9%" height=19></TD><TD width="15%" height=19></TD></TR><TR><TD width="65%" background=ApproachTrailDescrip_files/bg_dk_greenstone.jpg bgColor=#003300 colSpan=3 height=19>Notes</TD><TR><TD width="65%" colSpan=3 height=1>You can also take the Len Foote Hike Inn Trail. It is more moderate and joins back with the approach trail after passing the Inn. The inn offers refreshments to through hikers in exchange for a small fee. <TR><TD width="29%" height=19></TD><TD width="21%" height=19></TD><TD width="15%" height=19></TD></TR><TR><TD width="65%" background=ApproachTrailDescrip_files/bg_dk_greenstone.jpg bgColor=#003300 colSpan=3 height=19>Directions</TD></TR><TR><TD width="65%" colSpan=3 height=1>To the southern trailhead at Amacalola Falls State Park - The park is located on the north side of GA 52 and is easily accessed from Ellijay, Dawsonville, and Dahlonega.


From the square in Ellijay, go 21 miles on GA52.

From the square in Dawsonville, take GA 53 West to GA 183 North. The turn on GA 52 East. Go 15 miles to the park entrance.

From the square in Dahlonega, go west on GA 52 for 18 miles.
</TD></TR><TR><TD width="41%" height=19></TD><TD width="9%" height=19></TD><TD width="15%" height=19></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[MedicineMan]

I've got 2 and they are slowly shredding my house, but wait, its really their house 'cause I'm hardly ever there-either on a trip or out hiking....I made my decision based on mice....see I hate mice, hate hanta even more and when I 'installed' the cats the mice problem dissapeared...so the wallpaper is shredded (my fault for putting up grass-cloth) and the sofa's stuffing is showing through...matters not in the grand scheme of things I believe, so the cats get their way and I'm hanta free.

[minnesotasmith]

IMO would be for you to instead purchase enough mousetraps to always have 1-2 set up per room at any time until the problem subsides. (They're cheap, around 25 - 50 cents a trap or less.) If you put fresh bits of meat (bacon, sausage, fried chicken or hamburger right out of the pan while still very hot are ideal baits) to bait your traps, you will be amazed at your kill rate. Cheese is not that particularly effective as rodent bait; peanut butter works better, although not as well as meat does.

I've never tried fish as a bait, and likely never will use it inside an occupied dwelling. It might be worth using in an outbuilding.

Get the traditional killing wooden mousetraps/rattraps. The "make a liberal happy" nonlethal ones are much less effective and considerably more expensive. Wal-Mart carries the traps and may carry the poison; hardware stores, feed stores, and Home Depots all normally carry the poison.

Note that the little b*stards are cannibals, so check and empty the traps frequently, so your kills do not feed the others you haven't caught yet. Traps can often be reused many times; you may want to have a cheapo pair of pliers and widr flat screwdriver dedicated to changing out caught dead mice to rebait your traps. Only when a trap has had a caught mouse get seriously torn apart by other mice is it usually necessary to discard it.

You may also want to buy a 5-lb container of mouse poison pouches (you want the wafarin-containing ones) to drop here and there around your house. DON'T tear open the pouches; their teeth will do that well enough.

Remove as many entrance sites as options for the mice; stainless-steel steel wool is the idea material IMO to use to plug holes, as it does not rust and they cannot chew it. Normal cheapo steel wool works OK, if you don't manage to find any stainless SW. The cheap stuff is available at Wal-Mart (whether or not it has a grocery section) and any large grocery store.

Too, remove as many food sources as well as access routes for rodents on your property as you can manage. Roof rats readily will run along overhead beams, wall edges, roofs (of course), etc. Norway rats (the other main kind of rat here in America) do not climb so readily. If you live near woods, you are likely to get a number of shrews as well as mice (shorter tail easiest way to tell); they need to die due to also being damaging pests, too, so don't feel bad about the shrews you catch. I wouldn't waste time trying to figure out which exact kind of rodent pests you have, other than rats vs. mice, as you can always get the other types, too; just concentrate on killing them and driving them away.

Concrete without metal or glass embedded in it can be chewed through by rats over time; thick hard plastic (such as in 55-gallon blue plastic storage drums) very rarely is chewed by mice. It takes 1/4" x 1/4" mesh hardware cloth (or smaller) to be certain of excluding mice, if you have screening anywhere. Full-grown rats can squeeze through holes the size of quarters, and can swim for 48+ hours.

One effective-sounding outdoor anti-rat technique I have heard of (but never tried myself) for rat control is to cover the surface of a deep large tub filled with water with grain that will float. You then would lay a wide stable board with one end on the ground and one end leading to the surface of the container, ending as short a distance above the water as you can manage. Then, you drop individual grains on the ground near and along the board (not too many). The rodent climbs up the board following the food trail, sees and smells the grain atop the water, and jumps in to his doom.

One good technique for holes in outbuildings is to pour a considerable volume of cheap household ammonia in the holes, and then seal the holes. Rodents can't breathe these fumes when concentrated for long anymore than we can, and will leave or die. I have personally gassed a rat that ran into a small culvert by blocking both ends, getting the ammonia, opening one end just long enough to pour in about a quart of ammonia solution, then blocking that end right back up and leaving it for a few days. The rat was seriously dead when I reopened that culvert... :D Ammonia is >100x as effective for rodent area denial in enclosed spaces as mothballs are IMO.

Sticky pads (manufactured for this purpose) work well on eliminating mice and rats that do not eat the poison you put out nor bite the bait on your traps. The ones with a plastic (rather than paper) base are preferred IMO for mice, because they can often be reused. When a mouse (I wouldn't try this with a rat) is stuck to one, take a pair of pliers, grab the glue trap sheet by a corner, and dunk the whole thing in a container of water. The mouse will drown and die almost instantly. You can then fold over several paper towels 4 times or so, wrench the corpse off to be discarded, shake the trap once to get the water off (the glue usually used has little or no water solubility), and it is ready for reuse. Those plastic mouse glue traps can be used 5 times or more.

Rat glue traps need to be nailed to floors or boards; don't just drop them on the floor.

Putting traps in squares of nine traps, with only the central one baited, all set, and with just enough room for a rodent to gingerly walk between the outer traps is another good technique to nail the more cunning rodents. When it sets off the baited trap, and jumps to the side, it will likely land upon a set unbaited trap, and then is nailed.

The Department of Agriculture has many good articles on controlling rodents, if you need more info. Go to www.usda.gov (http://www.usda.gov/), and use their site search feature. I particularly like their procedures for estimating rodent numbers; if you have ANY signs of rodent activity, you likely have scores or hundreds (soon to be hundreds if only scores right now) of the little darlings.
=====================================

There, now you have enough info on how to kill off or drive away rodent pests that you no longer have any justification for having any "boxer rats" (cat-***** makers) in your perfectly good house. You can now take them either to your local pound for humane gassing, or to the house of a divorced/older woman who has given up on men (or that of a liberal, gay, or gay-wannabe man) who wants them for some reason, whatever your preference.

If you want a pet, get a dog (ideally one you can hike with, 25+ pounds and nonshort legs) or a handfed tame parrot such as a cockatiel or cockatoo.

If you want advice on keeping birds as pets in your soon-to-be post-cat life, feel free to message me.
=====================================

We now return to our regularly scheduled trail. ;)

I got some money for doing some chores for a relative, and splurged on some hiking gear at Small-Mart. I bought a 19.99 large daypack and a 7.99 lightweight hiker's hammock (1.25 pounds and VERY compact). They even had the world's tiniest pocketknife with four parts (knife, scissors, can opener, and something else) for only $0.88. Overnighting north of Springer I will go... as soon as this latest &%#&ing hurricane passes by (third one in a month to be a pain here in N. GA) and the weather improves. I don't mind rain (it makes it cool), but there are supposed to be gusts over 40 mph, and I don't want to take an excessive risk of getting hurt by flying debris when it's a pretty sure bet there will be noone else on the trail to happen by and help me if I should need it.

[minnesotasmith]

My trip was from about 2:30 P.M., Saturday, October 2, 2004, to Sunday, October 3. Here's how it went, and what I saw:

I hit the Trail fairly late in the day Saturday for a variety of reasons. While driving toward the trailhead, I saw an outfitter's store I had never been in before, and could not pass it by without stopping.;) (It's about 1/3 of a mile south of the intersection of Hwy. 53 and Hwy. 400, about 200 yards south of and on the same side of 400 as Home Depot, if anyone cares. Well-chosen if pricy selection IMO.)

I had also misplaced my directions for how to drive to where USFS 42 nears Springer, and remembered that the Ranger station at Amicalola Falls had some detailed printed directions (kept up-to-date with changing road conditions) they gave out gratis. Too, I wanted to get my pack weighed on their scale that is to the left of the front door to the Station; it was my first overnight hiking trip in over ten years, and wanted to get a feel (from the scale weight) as to how I had packed. Lastly, I had a full-page article discussing the AT from the Atlanta newspaper I tore out back in May that I've kept forgetting to take with me when I go near Amicalola to give to the Rangers there. It mentioned that married couple with the 6-YO boy and 8-YO girl that successfully through-hiked the AT in 2002. The Rangers told me that they had not seen the article before, were very happy to have it, and would likely post it as part of a display they were then putting together. I have long figured that those two kids making it to Katahdin was the ultimate retort to any adult in good health who says "Oh, I could never do that!" about through-hiking the AT, so I think that I did something that may push some people into awareness that they can, in fact, do the AT, but I digress.

My packweight was 37 pounds according to the Amicalola Ranger station scale, with water and food making up an outsize percentage of it. Took 3 days worth of food, even though I was only planning on around a 24-hour outing (cautious me). I had just over 7 quarts of liquid (all water except for a frozen-solid big bottle of Wal-Mart grape juice). I learned from hiking out West (CO, W. TX, UT, NM) years ago that if you don't take entirely too d*mned much water, you don't have enough water. More on this later on...

My biggest changes in terms of types of gear I took compared with my recent day hikes were for sleeping. I had a nice, nearly-new green tarp (about 6' x 8') that I intended either to put underneath me at the shelter, or to make into a houseroof-shape with 6 rope guidelines to have over me for protection from rain if I slept outside a shelter. (Yes, I remembered nylon rope and 6 small aluminum tentstakes.) I had a new hammock from Wal-Mart; about seven buck, 1.25 pounds, smaller than a hot dog in circumference when rolled up. I took a 100%-synthetic (acrylic and nylon) thin fleece blanket I've had a while, but never used. As warm as the day was when I set out, I threw in a pair of sweatpants as well. Somewhere, I have an inflatable pillow that came with a (too heavy to backpack with) air mattress I own, and will take it with me when I find it. In the meantime, every store that has a camping section I go into, I ask if they have inflatable pillows for sale by themselves, with no luck so far. As soon as I can afford it, I'll get some sort of good-quality air mattress like a Thermarest; more on this, later on, too...

At the USFS 42 lot that intersects the AT 0.9 miles from Springer, there were two groups milling about, obviously just off the Trail for the day, of about 9 and 5 people, respectively. There was nothing (patches, uniforms, spoken lingo I overheard, etc.) to mark either group as being any highly-organized club or whatnot. They were all in their early 20s that I could see. The lot was nearly full, with easily a dozen vehicles, and several parked nearby outside it, pulled off to the side of the road. I chatted briefly with two people from the smaller group, who I quizzed a bit about Trail conditions (I had never been on this section of Trail before). They told me only about 4 people were still out there that they knew about, that that section of the AT had easier grade and was better-groomed than the Approach Trail, and wished me well on my hike.

Off I went...

[smokymtnsteve]

I've got 2 and they are slowly shredding my house, but wait, its really their house 'cause I'm hardly ever there-either on a trip or out hiking....I made my decision based on mice....see I hate mice, hate hanta even more and when I 'installed' the cats the mice problem dissapeared...so the wallpaper is shredded (my fault for putting up grass-cloth) and the sofa's stuffing is showing through...matters not in the grand scheme of things I believe, so the cats get their way and I'm hanta free.


Snake....mice don't come around snakes..and snakes don't shred your furniture.

plus cats carry toxo...

snakes are pretty clean maybe jist a little samanella :D

[minnesotasmith]

The first half-mile or so was both fairly easy and had reasonable elbow room. After that, there was close to a mile that was pretty narrow much of the time, with very tall (10'+) rhododendrons and the Trail simply being quite narrow (between steep slope up and steep, often near-vertical slope down). Then, I hit some campgrounds and stream crossings, along with crossing gravel roads (USFS 42 again, I think) a couple of times, and it widened out most of the time almost into a trail road often potentially usable by a narrow pickup truck, width-wise.

I only saw two sets of people actually hiking the Trail in the first several miles. One was an older (late 50s) couple, separated by about 100 yards in their hiking, with the man very happy to talk to me. They had small daypacks (under 10 pounds by visual estimate). Further on, at least 2 miles from the USFS 42 lot, was a couple around age 27, with a small girl about age 4, and no equipment whatsoever, not even water bottles. The girl was somewhat unhappy (pouting a bit), and seemed to be balking at hiking farther.

Note on water availability on most of my hike; it was like the availability of French fries at a McDonald's. I crossed over several large streams (6' or more water width) that had large, permanent, well-made (if not new) bridges that took the Trail crossing them. There were at least 4 streams of 2'+ width that took leaping or rock-stepping to get over, and about half a dozen very small ones (1' width or less, very shallow) that nevertheless could have easily served as convenient water sources, plus a number of springs. Much of the early-to-mid hike, the Trail paralled a couple of large streams (potentially large enough for bathing or fishing, 5' wide or more) In the 6.7 miles (USFS 42 by Springer to Hawk Mtn. shelter) of my hike in each direction, I don't think I ever went so much as 1.5 miles (definitely not 2 miles) without usable good clear water within 60 yards of the Trail, usually actually crossing it. This was after at least 4 days with no rain in N. Forsyth County (where I live). The next day, coming back after a rain, the small streams were all larger, and the springs were both more abundant and faster-flowing, as one might expect.

About 3 miles in, shortly after the multiple-large-streams area, I saw an unhappy-looking fellow in his 20s in uniform painfully and slowly jogging with a large pack and rifle that resembled an M-16 (but was not one). I figured he already had plans for all of his air, so did not ask him any questions. :rolleyes:

The Benton McKaye Trail crossed the AT 3+ times, and ran concurrent with it for several stretches of easily over a mile and a half total. I looked down the BMT in both directions where ever it intersected the AT, and it seemed to vary considerably in how well-maintained it was, from comparable to the AT, to almost lost to the foliage. The couple I talked to way back at the USFS parking lot told me NOT to take the BMT; I suppose that it why.

The blazes on the AT section I hiked were all readable, but varied considerably in their age. I estimate that some were under a year old, while rather more were much older (5+ years?). There were several places where a wrong turn would have been easy to take, and no blazes were in sight for over 100 yards. One place, no more than a mile past the multiple-large-streams area, was a nearly symmetrical 3-way with one of those professional-quality bridges to the right, and a wide, practically-drivable trail to the left. (The Trail was to the right, I eventually figured out.)

After about 4 -4.5 miles or so, the Trail took on more of a deep wilderness feel. It seemed to have had less evidence of foot traffic than the sections behind me, and between tall slopes and trees was just a gloomier area (yes, I am taking time of day into account here.) There were a number of areas on the whole hike that were rock-abundant, but this section seemed to not have any large flat areas nearly free of them for a stretch as did the earlier part.

Then, about 45 minutes before dusk, I saw something move on the Trail...

[minnesotasmith]

About 30 yards ahead of me, what I later found out was no more than 0.75 miles from the Hawk Mountain shelter, I saw a black bear race uphill from the Trail into the woods. It moved at a speed that I would compare to a human sprinter racing on the flat; this sucker hauled. I stood still for a few seconds, then slowly backed up about 40 yards, calling out and clapping at intervals as I went. (I had no firearm nor bear spray with me, and was alone.)

The foliage was such that the bear could have stopped less than 40' uphill of the Trail, and I would not have known it. There were multiple downed trees whose larger/bottom ends were very dark brown (virtually black), and difficult to discern from a crouched-down black bear. I made the decision to bushwack in a large circle downslope of the Trail to try to avoid the bear. It took something over 20 minutes to get back to the trail this way. I did not tell I was back to the Trail until I was within 6' of it, it was that hard to see from below.

Several hundred yards past where I got back onto the Trail, I encountered a young (age ~20) couple filtering water from another 3' wide shallow stream. They told me the Hawk Mountain shelter was about 300 yards farther on, and that they were going to camp in the clearing about 50 yards shelter-wards of this stream we were chatting by. I told them in detail about my encounter, and had their complete attention. I waved off their offer of water (I had more than enough, remember), and went on to the shelter.

An older couple (man 50s, woman late 40s) and a man in his late 30s were already at the shelter. The single man was section-hiking the whole AT in GA, using his annual vacation to do so.

I hadn't been seated at the picnic table by the shelter for 10 minutes when the young couple hiked up, with all their equipment. After my tale, they had decided that crowds were attractive...:rolleyes:

The single man reported having a bear encounter that morning that was much closer than mine. He heard some noises early before leaving his tent, looked out the tent door, and saw a large black bear less than 15' away. He yelled and banged on his cooking pot, and it ran off. He was rather blase about the whole thing.

[minnesotasmith]

Needless to say, after everyone heard both the single man's and my bear stories, no one had the slightest objection to my building a fire in the fire pit when I suggested doing so. Kindling was abundant (and dry) even in the camp area, presumably due to the many recent windstorms and no rain for 4+ days. Larger (over 1.5" diameter) dry nonrotted firewood was harder to find. I used a couple of paper towels and the driest leaves I could find for tinder; next time I overnight, I'll bring some bone-dry newspaper for tinder. The best tinder I've ever used was alternating layers of birch bark from a paper birch tree and newspaper; the bark ignites easier than the paper, and the paper burns longer than the bark, so the combo beats either alone IMO.

The man in his 50s had a folding wood saw (about 8" long (blade length) that he was rather proud of. It only weighed around 2 or 3 ounces, I'd say (he let me heft it), and might be nice to have along in the future.

Somehow, my walking stick ended up on the fire. I'd used that one for 4 previous Approach Trail outings, and really liked it. Oh, well; I'll get another one before my next time out.

There was a register with about 10 pages filled out at the shelter. Some middle school put it in, and there were several pens (unlike the Black Gap shelter register I saw about a month prior, which was penless). A SOBO through-hiker had commented in it that this was the very first trail register he had been the first hiker to write in. :p I would have written down his name, not to mention my bear encounter, but never got around to it.:o The shelter had good straw broom as well.

The shelter was not new, but was in good condition and was extremely sturdy and well-made. I would have felt safe in 90-mph mile winds in it. It did not have chainlink facing with a door to keep out bears, which would have been nice. It did have an upper story, I figure either for women skittish of male hikers they don't know, or for amorous couples with no tent. :D

The section hiker said there was a sign (nice and new sign, I think) indicating there was a privy. All he could find was a completely torn-up unusable very old one (the toilet seat was lying in the grass 20' or so from the privy). He thought that the sign was made and installed in anticipation of a new one being built that had not yet been put it. I did not go look, not having the need.

Everyone made dinner; I was the only one who had cold food only. (I'll make an alcohol stove of Sgt. Rock's design as described on his website before my next trip.) The young girl gave me a veggie burger unasked, and there was other offers of food all around. I offered her a small chocolate bar, and she turned it down, pointing to a 1-lb. one she had with her to make s'mores with. She made a s'more (graham cracker, expertly toasted marshmallow, and chocolate piece) for each person present, which no one turned down. Two people accepted my offer of an Oriental fruit cup (bits of lichee in lichee-flavored gelatin; about an ounce in size).

We all sacked out by 2130 or so.

Everyone pitched a tent around the sides or back of the shelter, and I was alone in it for the night -- or so I thought. I heard what had to be the ubiquitous shelter mice scrabbling around even before I lay down for the night. I'd read on Whiteblaze to keep my head towards the shelter entrance (unless there is rain combined with wind) to keep the mice from running over my face, so that's what I did. I felt a mouse run over my legs during the night at least twice that I am aware of. I'd hung my food on the overhead cables and had all my pack pockets zipped open so that the mice wouldn't chew new holes investigating it (pack was at my feet, 1' from the wall). I could not tell any evidence of mouse damage or interest in my pack the next day.

About 0400, it started to rain, and by 0600 everyone had joined me in the shelter, good-naturedly lamenting how their tents and/or sleeping bags were going to weigh a bit more today than they had yesterday. My stuff was all bone-dry though; my reward for putting up with shelter mice? ;) Rain was over before 0730, in time for a new day's hiking.

The next day, the older couple and the section hiker pushed on NC-ward, after I made sure they had heard about whiteblaze.net. Given my bear encounter not far from the shelter, I had no difficulty whatsoever in persuading the young couple (headed back to the USFS parking lot by Springer, where their vehicle was, as mine was) to hike with me. I felt honor-bound to hike at a fast pace so as not to slow them down, which I paid for later with sore everything and near-painful shortness of breath... :datz
Jeez, those two were in good shape!

After about 2 miles, we started seeing people. A group had camped out on this large (>15 acres) meadow that was by the first road intersection coming back, and we talked to them as they were just getting back on the Trail. We saw more groups of uniformed types, one being two guys in full battle dress hiking with two girls around 19, one of whom was quite nicely (Ds, no sag) endowed and wearing a very low-cut shirt that generously allowed for pleasant visual partaking of her particularly high-quality assets. I of course stopped and asked them several questions, prolonging the encounter... :D
The guys were Nat'l Guard, as I had surmised. There were numerous people on the Trail the last 2 miles or so. Saw the first nonwhites of the whole trip in the last half-mile, 3 well-mannered tall males around age 19. They had no gear whatsoever.

There was no evidence of rainfall by the time we hit the multiple-large-streams area, nor at any point from there back to the USFS parking lot.
The lot was about 2/3 full of vehicles at this time (1230 hours). I did the 6.7 miles in almost exactly 3.5 hours, which was too fast a pace for me for that heavy a pack after a lousy night's sleep. Many lessons about gear and physical conditioning there...

Next hike, I think I'll start up by Suches, and head towards that shelter that's Hawk Mountain-ward of there.

[MisterSweetie]

About 3 miles in, shortly after the multiple-large-streams area, I saw an unhappy-looking fellow in his 20s in uniform painfully and slowly jogging with a large pack and rifle that resembled an M-16 (but was not one). I figured he already had plans for all of his air, so did not ask him any questions.

Haha, well put.

[minnesotasmith]

Is that too many people will figure you are too weird to visit if you own them. For anyone who wants visitors (especially attractive young ladies), that is worth considering. People don't normally feel threatened by birds, but often feel that way about snakes of any size.

Think of it this way; IMO, owning snakes is a lot like being a tobacco addict. You knock out huge percentages of potential partners for little or no (if any) positive benefits of any kind.

[smokymtnsteve]

Is that too many people will figure you are too weird to visit if you own them. For anyone who wants visitors (especially attractive young ladies), that is worth considering. People don't normally feel threatened by birds, but often feel that way about snakes of any size.

Think of it this way; IMO, owning snakes is a lot like being a tobacco addict. You knock out huge percentages of potential partners for little or no (if any) positive benefits of any kind.


think it on thru Minnssmith,,,,

the young ladies that DO come to visit you will be OK with Weird and they will not be scared of snakes. I like girls who aren't afraid of snakes, ;)

worth some consideration would ya say?

[Dances with Mice]

The shelter was not new, but was in good condition and was extremely sturdy and well-made. I would have felt safe in 90-mph mile winds in it. It did not have chainlink facing with a door to keep out bears, which would have been nice.

No need, the bears are afraid of the shelter mice. No shelters in GA have chainlink fencing. All GA shelters will have mouldering style shi, uh, privies before Spring.



A group had camped out on this large (>15 acres) meadow that was by the first road intersection coming back

That was the road to Long Creek Cemetery, and you should have turned west on it for 100 yards and checked out the Civil War era tombstones, the large picnic shelter, a cinderblock privy and the famous home-made merry-go-round! Seriously. There's a cemetery with a playground in the middle of the woods. If the group was camped in the large meadow on the east side of the trail, they shouldn't have been. That clearing is a managed wildlife planting and there are "No Camping" signs posted.



There was no evidence of rainfall by the time we hit the multiple-large-streams area, nor at any point from there back to the USFS parking lot.

The "multiple-large-streams area" is called Three Forks. And you didn't stop to see Long Creek Falls? Shame on you! That's the highlight of the section you just hiked (besides the merry-go-round, I mean). Check out blue blazed trails!

Sounds like you had a nice hike. It also sounds like you need a map. Carrying water on that section was like carrying sand through the Sahara. I take it you saw no blow-downs or other storm damage?



Next hike, I think I'll start up by Suches, and head towards that shelter that's Hawk Mountain-ward of there.

Gooch Mtn. From Hawk Mtn to Woody is a pretty good push, and the Trail will go right over the top of every single peak on the way. Better to park at Gooch Gap and hike south. Sounds like you really need a map.

Here's how to get a good, but cheap one - go to the Wal-Mart in Cumming and go back to the Sports section. Right in front of the register on the gun/knife cases is a map rack with maps of local lakes. On that rack will also be a map showing the Wildlife Management Areas of Georgia. It will have a complete map of the AT in Georgia, showing shelters, and all Forest Service Roads. Costs 4, maybe 5 bucks. If it's sold out there, go to the W-M on Windward Pkwy.

The Wildlife Mgt Area map will not be as recent as the ATC's maps, and some shelters may not be listed (Gooch Mtn., Woods Hole) but it will show all the Forest Service roads and many other hiking trails in GA. For the money it's much better than the ATC map set, especially for weekend hikers.

[minnesotasmith]

Agreed re the water issue in the area I hiked. Still, though, not until I got to the multiple streams area again did I have the nerve to pour out the water in my supplementary canteens; too much time out West, I guess...

Nice hint on the cheapo AT-info map; I'm in that Wal-Mart approximately weekly, so will definitely swing by that dept. before my next AT hike.

Re blowdowns: yes, there were some, but they had mostly either been dealt with, or were relatively small-diameter ones lying on the Trail in the wider sections that were easy to step around. I picked up and tossed not a few branches away from the Trail myself.

There were gumploads of leaves on the Trail, about which I found two major negative aspects. One was that it made stepping between rocks harder to do accurately, which stressed the bottoms of my feet and ankles more than they would have been otherwise. The other is that (on Saturday, when the leaves were at their driest) the crunching of leaves underfoot made it hard to hear wildlife (especially but not limited to birdsongs), even when I was hiking alone. The rain Sun. A.M. helped a fair amount with #2, but not #1.

That reminds me of a humorous moment at the Hawk Mountain shelter Sun. A.M. The single section-hiker guy announced that he was going to go try again to find the privy (that there was a sign for). The husband in the older couple held up one finger, while his wife held up two...:D
'Twould have made more sense if a female had gone privy-hunting, given that the whole woods out of sight of females is a urinal to most males...;)

[minnesotasmith]

Here is a link to the GA 's AT in GA map:

http://www.georgia-atclub.org/map.html

Their list of points and mileages in GA: (I bolded the part of greatest interest to this discussion IMO.)

http://www.georgia-atclub.org/description.html

Appalachian Trail in Georgia:
Miles• 00.0 Springer Mountain (3782 ft) is Southern terminus of the A.T. Bronze plaque on rock, sign and register nearby. Good views to west. Mount Katahdin in Maine is 2155 miles north via the white-blazed trail.
• 00.2 Springer Mountain Shelter to right on side trail with privy and reliable spring. Established tent sites nearby.
• 00.9 USFS Road #42 (parking)-Now a USFS fee service area! $3/day/car.
• 02.5 Stover Creek Shelter (2850 ft) with all-season stream nearby. Located left of A.T. down old logging road.
• 04.1 Three Forks, where three streams converge to form Noontootla Creek. Campsites available north of A.T. along Long Creek.
• 07.6 Hawk Mountain Shelter (3200 ft) with privy and water down path behind shelter.
• 08.1 Hightower Gap (2854 ft), junction with gravel USFS Road #42.
• 14.9 Gooch Mountain Shelter to left on short side trail. New in 2001. Excellent spring, tent sites.
• 16.1 Gooch Gap Shelter to right on side trail, spring on A.T.
• 16.4 Gooch Gap (2784 ft), USFS Road #42 leads 2.7 miles to Suches, Georgia.
• 20.0 Woody Gap (3150 ft), paved GA Hwy. 60 with good parking. Suches, Georgia is 1.9 miles to left.
• 21.0 Big Cedar Mountain (3737 ft), with good views from rock ledges.
• 23.7 Henry Gap (3100 ft) is 200 ft left on side trail. Unpaved road leads to GA Hwy. 180.
• 25.3 Jarrard Gap (3250 ft), blue-blazed trail to left leads one mile to Lake Winfield Scott State Park and GA Hwy. 180.
• 27.4 Slaughter Gap (3800 ft), blue-blazed trail to left leads 2.7 miles to Lake Winfield Scott State Park. Last water until Neels Gap is spring on A.T., 0.2 mile before Slaughter Gap.
• 28.3 Blood Mountain (4461 ft, highest point on the A.T. in Georgia). Blood Mountain Shelter with privy located on summit. Closest water is in Slaughter Gap one mile and 660 feet descent south on A.T. Panoramic views in all directions.
• 30.7 Neels Gap (3125 ft), paved US 19/129 with parking at Byron Reese Memorial north on highway. Walasi-Yi Center has hiker supplies, equipment and hostel available on first come, first serve basis.
• 34.1 Wolf Laurel Top (3766 ft) with campsite and views to right in clearing.
• 36.2 Tesnatee Gap (3138 ft), paved GA Hwy. 348 (Richard B. Russell Scenic Highway) with parking.
• 36.9 Whitley Gap Shelter (3200 ft) is right 1.2 miles on side trail with magnificent views in season, dependable spring.
• 37.1 Hogpen Gap (3450 ft) on GA Hwy. 348 with parking.
• 41.3 Low Gap Shelter (3010 ft) is right via side trail into cove with spring and stream nearby.
• • 46.3 Chattahoochee Gap (3500 ft), spring on right via side trail is headwaters of Chattahoochee River.
• 48.0 Site of former Rocky Knob shelter. Area still usable as campsite. Spring downhill below old shelter site.
• 48.5 Blue Mountain Shelter (3780 ft) via side trail to left. Spring on A.T. just before turnoff to shelter.
• 50.7 Unicoi Gap (2949 ft), paved GA Hwy. 75 with parking.
• 55.1 Tray Gap (3847 ft), junction with Tray Mountain Road (USFS Road #79).
• 55.9 Tray Mountain (4430 ft) with outstanding views from summit. Descending to north, trail is rough, rocky and steep.
• 56.2 Tray Mountain Shelter (4070 ft) is left via side trail, good spring downhill behind shelter.
• 61.5 Addis Gap (3304 ft) campsite with stream to right 0.5 mile down old fire road.
• 62.6 Kelly Knob (4276 ft), summit is 0.2 mile to left.
• 63.3 Deep Gap Shelter (3350 ft) is 0.3 mile to right. Water in piped spring just before shelter.
• 66.8 Dicks Creek Gap (2675 ft), paved US 76 with picnic tables and seasonal stream.
• 71.1 Plumorchard Gap Shelter (3090 ft), located to right of gap, down side trail. Spring near shelter.
• 75.6 Bly Gap (3840 ft), on Georgia/North Carolina state line, is marked by gnarled oak tree and fine views to north. Good campsite and water to right below clearing.
• 78.4 Muskrat Creek Shelter (4590 ft), in North Carolina, is to right with privy beyond shelter. Water in small creek that crosses A.T.

=============================================

About my possible route next time, let's do some math:

• 07.6 Hawk Mountain Shelter
• 16.4 Gooch Gap, USFS Road #42 leads 2.7 miles to Suches, Georgia.
• 20.0 Woody Gap, paved GA Hwy. 60. Suches, Georgia is 1.9 miles to left.

Your suggestion was starting from Gooch Gap, if I was going to do a 'there and back again' to the Hawk Mountain shelter. That's (16.4-7.6) = 8.8 miles each way, about the same as the Approach Trail from Amicalola to Springer, which I've done in one day. That's a total of 17.6 miles.

Going from Woody Gap to the Hawk Mountain shelter would add 3.6 miles each way, or a total of (17.6 + 3.6 + 3.6) = 24.8 miles; divided by two, that'd be 12.4 miles each way. With my current physical condition and a pack over 30 pounds, that would be a stretch for an overnighter, especially if the route is PUD-city. Out of curiosity, how secure is the parking generally considered to be at Gooch Gap? If that's not an issue, I guess I'll go with starting at Gooch Gap next time, then.

[Dances with Mice]

Out of curiosity, how secure is the parking generally considered to be at Gooch Gap? If that's not an issue, I guess I'll go with starting at Gooch Gap next time, then.

I've never heard of any problems. Gooch is practically located within a subdivision, you'll see all the houses as you drive in. The road, FS42, is paved from Suches to within a hundred yards or so of the Gap.

Besides, the bow hunting season has already started and black powder begins soon, then the regular season follows. People don't mess much with cars parked in National Forests during hunting season, y'know?

And, finally, you could ask the County Commissioner about security at this particular gap:
http://www.lumpkincounty.gov/commissioner.htm

See what I mean?

Oh, and they're not PUDs. The Horse Gap, Sassafrass Mtn, Cooper Gap, Justus Mtn stretch was intended to cull the weak and injured out of the herd.

[minnesotasmith]

"People don't mess much with cars parked in National Forests during hunting season, y'know?"

"Oh, and they're not PUDs. The Horse Gap, Sassafrass Mtn, Cooper Gap, Justus Mtn stretch culls the weak and injured from the herd."

Heh heh heh. Good points embedded in hilarious well-written prose. Thanks for the info.