PDA

View Full Version : Windmills on the AT



MarkGRuns
09-17-2004, 11:32
Hello all,
I am writing a story on the proposed windmill farms in Redington Township, Maine. I was hoping that I could get some thoughts from past thru-hikers on whether they feel like this will ruin the experience of the AT. I think that the situation is an interesting controversy because of the all around environmentally friendly atmosphere of the groups involved. Any thoughts, or help that could be spared would be much appreciated. Thank's so much.

Lone Wolf
09-17-2004, 11:35
I'm a 5 time thru-hiker. I say put em up.

tlbj6142
09-17-2004, 11:38
But don't they kill bats. Bats are cool, they eat bugs.

trikos
09-17-2004, 11:42
Windmills are noise, but put them up anyway for the environment

tlbj6142
09-17-2004, 11:42
They are a bit noisy when you are close (less 1/4 mile?) to them. I hiked by one in western PA on the Laural Highland Hiking Trail. Kept hearing this strange sound for 10 minutes or so. Wasn't until I was along the edge of a pond and looked up that I saw it spinning above the tree line.

From a distance they do look cool, like the 200+ "field" of them near Palm Springs, CA. But a solo one in the woods is kinda of creepy. Don't know why.

MOWGLI
09-17-2004, 12:05
Hello all,
I am writing a story on the proposed windmill farms in Redington Township, Maine. I was hoping that I could get some thoughts from past thru-hikers on whether they feel like this will ruin the experience of the AT. I think that the situation is an interesting controversy because of the all around environmentally friendly atmosphere of the groups involved. Any thoughts, or help that could be spared would be much appreciated. Thank's so much.

I suggest you look into the impact of windmills on migratory birds - particularly raptors.

Toolshed
09-17-2004, 13:20
Put 'em up. Anybody that says seeing windmills will ruin their "experience" is a little anal to begin with.

Most others are probably thinking what a bunch of pansy's the anti-windmill activists are. They scream at the rest of America to stop driving gas vehicles, stop eating meat, stop burning coal, stop grazing cattle, stop cutting trees, and when renewable clean energy sources are discussed, they all become NIMBY Pansy's - "It'll ruin My experience"!!!!

PUSU

Jersey Bob
09-17-2004, 13:45
at least 10 characters

Kerosene
09-17-2004, 13:47
I'd have to agree that I think their impact is typically overstated, especially when you consider the visual and noise impact of power lines and other manmade intrusions. Of course, if the windmill farm is the only evidence of human artifacts then you're destroying the viewshed irreparably, just as you would with a house, a ski run or a monument. There are a lot of ridgelines along the AT that are already marked by something, so I don't have a problem adding them in those cases.

orangebug
09-17-2004, 13:48
Perhaps I'm a little anal, if name calling is the way you wish to deal with honest disagreement. :rolleyes:

I am concerned with more light pollution (lights on the props and towers along a ridgeline), noise, roads built to service the towers, wildlife impacts and the relative cost for the small amount of energy produces with current technologies. We probably will see this occur at some point, but I doubt that these windmills will enhance our experience, any more than high tension power lines(NJ), cell phone and TV towers (NC & TN) and similar intrusions do now.

I doubt we will see closure of polluting coal plants in the midwest as a result. Nuclear plants will close as their lifespan exhausts. Hydro electric plants are less available.

Something will have to give, and I bet it will be some of our experience on the AT.

MOWGLI
09-17-2004, 13:57
Put 'em up. Anybody that says seeing windmills will ruin their "experience" is a little anal to begin with.

Most others are probably thinking what a bunch of pansy's the anti-windmill activists are. They scream at the rest of America to stop driving gas vehicles, stop eating meat, stop burning coal, stop grazing cattle, stop cutting trees, and when renewable clean energy sources are discussed, they all become NIMBY Pansy's - "It'll ruin My experience"!!!!

PUSU

Yeah, lets put a bunch of them windmills on Mt. Marcy then. Heck, let's put 'em on every peak over 4000' in New York State. Why not?

It's not just NIMBY - there ARE some very legitimate impacts other than aesthetics. The impact on migratory birds is a BIG one. As a birder who has spent many many hundreds of hours censusing migratory raptors, it's an issue that I and many others are legitimately concerned about. I like Golden Eagles, Peregrine Falcons & Northern Goshawks alive and on the wing - not sliced & diced.

You know, people attacked those who were opposed to damming James Bay as stopping the development of renewable resources. Funny thing is, those dams released naturally occurring mercury (from the soil) into the waters, which poisoned the fish, which poisoned the people.

All renewables are not necessarily good. Nothing is that simple.

Jersey Bob
09-17-2004, 13:59
at least 10 characters

LionKing
09-17-2004, 14:02
RUN!

Its the man trying to keep a hiker down!:banana

SavageLlama
09-17-2004, 14:18
The ATC urges towns to choose sites that are out of view of the AT, which I definitely support.

I have yet to hike a lot of the trail down south and don't want to see windmills on every mountain top when I do. The AT is a unique way to experience nature on the crowded eastern seaboard, and the trail should be protected so that the generations to come can have that experience, too.

Blue Jay
09-17-2004, 14:19
Put 'em up. Anybody that says seeing windmills will ruin their "experience" is a little anal to begin with.

Most others are probably thinking what a bunch of pansy's the anti-windmill activists are. They scream at the rest of America to stop driving gas vehicles, stop eating meat, stop burning coal, stop grazing cattle, stop cutting trees, and when renewable clean energy sources are discussed, they all become NIMBY Pansy's - "It'll ruin My experience"!!!!

PUSU

No, I'm thinking you need to get out of your car, stop stuffing meat into your face, and look at the smog your coal plants are allowed to cause when scrubbing technology exists but is not required and used. To label all conservationists as NIMBY pansys clearly proves your vast ignorance. Other than personal use, solar or water power, no energy source is "clean". I believe, but could be wrong, that this is the same type of windmill used in western Mass. near where I live. The number of birds I find under them is appalling. As a 46er, mountains to you are merely a way to try to prove your manhood at cocktail parties.

weary
09-17-2004, 14:24
I'd have to agree that I think their impact is typically overstated, especially when you consider the visual and noise impact of power lines and other manmade intrusions. Of course, if the windmill farm is the only evidence of human artifacts then you're destroying the viewshed irreparably, just as you would with a house, a ski run or a monument. There are a lot of ridgelines along the AT that are already marked by something, so I don't have a problem adding them in those cases.

For all practical purposes, the windmills on
Reddington will be the only significant intrusion for about 25 miles, maybe more, of the trail in Maine. These are proposed to be largest wind towers in the world -- 100 meters (325') high, topped with twirling blades 125 feet long.

There are glimpses of occasional towns, a grass air strip, Saddleback ski area, and Sugarloaf, but these towers will be the predominate view from Saddleback through most of the Bigelow Range.

For this reason they are the only one of seven wind projects proposed for the northeast that is being opposed by Appalachian Trail Conference, by AMC, and by the Maine Appalachian Trail Club.

Put me down as an opponent. They will do immense damage to some of the wildest hiking available on the entire 2,170 mile footpath, while producing insignificant energy and very significant tax shelters for the investors.

Weary

Toolshed
09-17-2004, 14:25
To label all conservationists as NIMBY pansys clearly proves your vast ignorance. .
Reread my post that's not what I said.


As a 46er, mountains to you are merely a way to try to prove your manhood at cocktail parties.
Nice Try Blue Jay, The best you can do is try to take this to a pesonal level and try to insult me? You know nothing about me, and your attempt to put me down is childish at best. This is exactly the kind of action that would make most filter your message.

Since you brought it up though, I used to wear my 46er pin on the lapel of my blazer, but I have since removed it temporarily in order to wear my "Vote for Bush" pin. I will put the 46er pin back on though after the election.

Bloodroot
09-17-2004, 14:34
The implication of windmills (esp. in northern appalachians) have played a major toll on bat populations in recent years. Great article on windmills in "The Scientific American, Feb 04 ed" on this subject.

SavageLlama
09-17-2004, 15:22
Appalachian Trailway News has had a lot of articles on the windmill issue recently.

All recent issues are online at: http://www.appalachiantrail.org/about/pubs/atn/index.html

Jersey Bob
09-17-2004, 15:28
at least 10 characters

steve hiker
09-17-2004, 17:46
As a birder who has spent many many hundreds of hours censusing migratory raptors, it's an issue that I and many others are legitimately concerned about. I like Golden Eagles, Peregrine Falcons & Northern Goshawks alive and on the wing - not sliced & diced.
Can't they put wire screens around the windmill blades, like on fans? That would protect the birds.

MOWGLI
09-17-2004, 17:53
Can't they put wire screens around the windmill blades, like on fans? That would protect the birds.


I don't now. I'm not an Engineer - just a lowly hiker & birder.

smokymtnsteve
09-17-2004, 17:55
Can't they put wire screens around the windmill blades, like on fans? That would protect the birds.

sounds like a good idea to me.

Jersey Bob
09-17-2004, 20:07
at least 10 characters

orangebug
09-17-2004, 20:10
Biomass!

Don't make me tell you of the problems with out composting trash center in Cobb County Georgia. This has been the bleeding edge. This is a true NIMBY experience.

Unfortunately, there are no perfect solutions.

Jersey Bob
09-17-2004, 20:25
at least 10 characters

Bandana Man
09-17-2004, 22:47
Saw one of these windmills in Nova Scotia a few weeks ago while on vacation. It's operation was quiet and the only road to it was a small dirt road. No environmental impact there. It provides all the electical power needed for a community of over 200 homes. These things will be built where there are already communities that will use the power they generate with virtually no environmental impact. I wish Florida would build some in small communities along the coast.

trikos
09-18-2004, 07:31
Why do people want to put up wind mills in the wilderness? Why not a dessert where people don't care that much?

I know they are putting up a significant number of wind mills on the ocean (offshore) in Denmark to avoid having them in the landscape. Perhaps you could use the dessert, where people care less about the wind mills :-?

Peaks
09-18-2004, 08:00
Before anyone decides for or against windmills, go a look at them. Right now there are windmills in Searsburg that are visable from parts of Wilmington Vermont and surrounding towns. If you look for them, they are visable in the distance from a few places on the AT/LT.

There are plenty of people on this forum who have hiked the AT/LT in Southern Vermont since those windmills were built, and I don't hear them complaining about them. Maybe windmills on Redington can be built the same way, or put up in a nearby location that would be further from the AT. (Redington is about 1 miles off the AT.)

weary
09-18-2004, 15:20
Can't they put wire screens around the windmill blades, like on fans? That would protect the birds.

As near as I can figure out, no one has ever done that. I suspect the cost in both money and energy production makes it prohibitive. These things twirl in a 250 foot circle on an axis 325 feet above ground.

A grid small enough to block migrating birds would created all kinds of eddies that would decrease power output. These eddies don't matter on a house fan, that seeks only to produce cooling breezes in a room.

I'm not enough of an engineer to know what the impact would be energy wise, but I suspect it would be enormous.

Weary

weary
09-18-2004, 15:33
Before anyone decides for or against windmills, go a look at them. Right now there are windmills in Searsburg that are visable from parts of Wilmington Vermont and surrounding towns. If you look for them, they are visable in the distance from a few places on the AT/LT.

There are plenty of people on this forum who have hiked the AT/LT in Southern Vermont since those windmills were built, and I don't hear them complaining about them. Maybe windmills on Redington can be built the same way, or put up in a nearby location that would be further from the AT. (Redington is about 1 miles off the AT.)

The visual offenses of industrial wind complexes near the trail obviously depends on what else is around them. The impact is clearly different for a hiker who has just entered Vermont after coming through New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, and Massachusetts, where roads and towns intrude every few miles and Maine, where the nearest towns are 10 miles away, the landscape no longer is of towns and farm fields, but mainly of unbroken forest for a hundred miles in almost all directions.

I have yet to hear a Pacific Crest Trail hiker praise the windmills nearby.

Recognize also that this is the first of many. If industrial wind complexes are allowed within a mile of a National Scenic Trail, they will soon blossom on every feasible hillside. This is the worse possible precedent for what most people think of as the wildest section of the entire 2,170 mile footpath between Georgia and Katahdin.

WEary