View Full Version : NeoAir....speak now or forever hold your peace.
Jayboflavin04
01-26-2010, 20:24
I think I am gonna take the neoair plunge. All the reviews on backpackers gear test are positive. I have heard a few negatives, and some early issues. I am still pretty skeptical, but when I laid on one at the outfitter I bout fell in love (being a side sleeper and all). Looking for the most bag night reviews....
I've got 35 nights on mine. I love it. I was concerned about the baffles going side to side instead of top to bottom. But, I find it actually conforms to my body better. It was a little crinkly at first, but has softened up very nice.
Kerosene
01-26-2010, 22:29
Invest in an REI co-op membership and buy it from them. If it doesn't work out for you for some reason, just return it for a replacement. I wouldn't trade my NeoAir for anything, except perhaps for a comfy hammock with quilt/underquilt that weighed less than my Lunar Solo, WM UltraLite and shortie NeoAir!
ShelterLeopard
01-26-2010, 22:32
Neo air- love!!! One thing I must say, on frozen ground, it was a little chilly, so when it is freezing outside, I'll be using a half length ridgerest underneath. But in terms of comfort in warmer temps, it is perfect. Love it.
Many Walks
01-26-2010, 22:42
I picked up a couple of car windshield sun reflectors from the dollar store that fit under our small NeoAir's. They are mylar covered foam, extremely light, and easy to pack for some underside protection and insulation. Works for us.
Lyndz1989
01-26-2010, 23:52
I just recently tried one out at EMS.. I fell in love as well. I'm a side sleeper so my little therma-rest is VERY uncomfortable. I will def be buying mine from REI though, just in case of the negatives I have heard... but I'm just going to take the plunge for a comfortable nights sleep!
I tried one out at the store and it is very comfortable. But, it a little "loud". Also, wondering if it works with the Thermarest chair attachment. A good lseat where you can lean back is golden.
Any opinions as to how they compare to the Big Agnes? Big Agnes I believe is a bit bulkier/heavier. But comfort/quality wise?
skinewmexico
01-27-2010, 01:08
I wouldn't buy one without laying on a POE Ether Thermo 6 or BA Insulated air core. They don't have the koolaid effect, but they're extremely comfortable and just as thick. Been that way for years. And less than half the cost. It's the old grams versus cost argument, I guess.
Tipi Walter
01-27-2010, 01:11
You gotta take two pads in the winter if you use the NeoAir as it's only 2.5R. A Ridgerest(2.6R) and a NeoAir sounds good, boosts it up to about 5R. For sleeping on ice and snow I'd go for something around 6-8R.
Powder River
01-27-2010, 01:46
Get it at REI- you've got nothing to lose
Jayboflavin04
01-27-2010, 07:51
Thanks for twisting my arm folks:). I probably buy one next week with a couple other things i want from REI (gift card). I've had a real hard time deciding on what to buy. thats the one thing I have been looking at doing is getting my hips up off the hard ground.
Big Dawg
01-27-2010, 11:20
If you can wait til mid March, buy the Neoair using REI's "20% off 1 item" sale. It's a members only sale, so become a member before then.
The Will
01-27-2010, 18:44
For those of you who use the small NeoAir,
Considering the pad is 2.5 inches thick what does the "drop off" below your hips where the pad ends feel like? It seems this would take some getting used to. How do you handle this or compensate for it? Even using your pack for your lower legs I would think you'd still feel that height difference.
I personally went for the regular sized neo-air, but I believe the strategy for at least some of those that go with the short sized version is to not fully inflate, so that the drop-off is somewhat gradual.
Kerosene
01-28-2010, 00:00
I put my pack (GG Nimbus Ozone covered in a plastic bag) under my feet, so there is no drop-off.
Jester2000
01-28-2010, 01:04
This marriage is illegal because the NeoAir is already married!
I picked up a couple of car windshield sun reflectors from the dollar store that fit under our small NeoAir's. They are mylar covered foam, extremely light, and easy to pack for some underside protection and insulation. Works for us.
holy crap! that is the best idea evah! thanks!
maybe take the mylar off the snap frame and just glue it on the bottom of the mattress with sil net. dots. just a few. and then roll it up like normal without the metal ****.
greginmi
01-28-2010, 15:45
I picked up a couple of car windshield sun reflectors from the dollar store that fit under our small NeoAir's. They are mylar covered foam, extremely light, and easy to pack for some underside protection and insulation. Works for us.
I just did something similar using the foil bubble wrap for wrapping HVAC ductwork. Worked great down to mid-30s with solidly frozen ground. This was my 1st night out with my regular Neoair and I think its a keeper.
Regards,
Greg
I used my regular length Neoair a few weeks ago at 20 degreesF. sleeping bag is a Montbell U.L. S.S. #2. I could feel the cold from the ground. May want to consider some other form of insulation under it.
Jester2000
01-28-2010, 18:21
I used my regular length Neoair a few weeks ago at 20 degreesF. sleeping bag is a Montbell U.L. S.S. #2. I could feel the cold from the ground. May want to consider some other form of insulation under it.
This bag (to my understanding) is rated at 25 degrees, so that may also have had something to do with it. But then again, the down under you is compressed regardless of the bag, so maybe that doesn't have anything to do with it. As Yukon suggested, a little more insulation couldn't hurt.
For those of you who use the small NeoAir,
Considering the pad is 2.5 inches thick what does the "drop off" below your hips where the pad ends feel like? It seems this would take some getting used to. How do you handle this or compensate for it? Even using your pack for your lower legs I would think you'd still feel that height difference.
So far, I'm a fan of the NeoAir when considering its great combination of, what I perceive as, positive attributes. I have the short(small) and med versions for 3 season thru-hiking and light winter use when I couple a NeoAir w/more insulation. On the med. length, even being 6'4", I can easily curl up entirely on top of the pad. Even if my feet hang off the med pad a bit I usually don't find it an issue as I might w/ the short version. I start off sleeping on my back and turn from side to side throughout the night. The 2.5 " drop off, which is most noticeable to me w/ the shorty, is really my only concern w/ the short version. Perhaps, it is mainly due to me being so tall. I brought this concern up on other gear review threads here on WB and elsewhere. It was the reason I bought the 67 " long (med) version. Even when I place my empty pack or whatever else I might have available under my legs I still notice that steep drop-off just below my waist. I go UL so consider I don't often have a whole lot of extra stuff to make up much height under my legs. Others may have more or extra stuff(gear) available that I don't have available so it might not be an issue for them or for someone who is not as tall as me.
Another concern I have w/ any short sleeping pad, and most significantly one with a higher R Value, and when using it on a colder weather hike, is that I notice a significant change in insulating value where the pad ends. When I try using a NeoAir shorty on cold weather hikes my lower half is definitely colder because it's less insulated. If for some reason I decide to use the Shorty on a cold weather hike I have to somehow make up for this lack of insulation where the pad ends if I want my feet to stay warm.
Before we go down the path of viewing the drop off as a complaint we must first realize that thickness is the chief reason that makes the NeoAir so darn comfy.
The Will
01-28-2010, 20:13
Before we go down the path of viewing the drop off as a complaint we must first realize that thickness is the chief reason that makes the NeoAir so darn comfy.
Understood. The potential comfort and light wt. are what attracts me. If I were to get the medium or the long I wouldn't be saving any wt. over my current set up, which I sleep quite comfortable on. I haven't passed any judgement. I haven't "tried one on" at the store, but I can't help but think that the drop-off would negate any comfort that 2.5 inches of cushion the short version provided.
My load as well is pretty light so I don't have the stuff other than my pack to make up for the difference.
springerfever
01-29-2010, 19:08
I originally purchased the regulat Neoair 20" X 72" and what bothered me the most was my elbows falling off the side of the pad. Also, I occasionally like to sleep on my side and the 20" was fairly narrow.
I LOVED the cushioning and the ability to get the firmness just right by slightly overinflating and then once retiring, let a little out until just right. I have never slept better !
So, what to do ? Upgrade of course to the 25" X 77". Sheer nirvana and for me worth the few extra ounces. Only drawback is blowing this puppy up.
I got the Thermarest stuff sack for it too, and my god these babies pack up small ! I ended up returning it cause it was a hassle to use it all the time .
Best way to pack it in my kit is to expel all air fold it in 1/2 lengthways and then just roll it up around my cook kit. Then it goes into a Sea to Summit 13L silnylon dry-sack with other items in the core. Works great and easy to get to and put away.
Mrs Baggins
01-29-2010, 19:13
Hubby used his Neo Air on a 5 day backpack trip in the Sierras. Loved it. Had zero complaints. It was June, still not real warm up there and he was very comfy. We went from Thermorest self-inflating pads (worthless for comfort and too heavy) to Big Agnes Insulated Air Core (again, not all that warm and too heavy) to the Neo Air. I haven't had a chance to use mine yet but I anticpate a good experience.
Jayboflavin04
01-30-2010, 10:24
SOLD!!! Ordered. Can;t wait to get it.
OK seriously how long do these things take to blow up? I would bet that people that like to smoke on the trail would have a hard time with this pad.
I saw one today in person, wow it was small.
Mrs Baggins
01-30-2010, 20:27
OK seriously how long do these things take to blow up? I would bet that people that like to smoke on the trail would have a hard time with this pad.
I saw one today in person, wow it was small.
So you're going to pick a pad based on your smoking habit? Wow. I understand it blows up pretty fast (I don't smoke, never have, and the BA Air Core took me too long to inflate). Maybe it's time to re-evaluate the smoking habit if you're going to let it interfere with a good night's sleep. :-?
Mountain Wildman
01-30-2010, 20:30
I have the 25 X 77 Large, Took me 2 or 3 minutes to inflate it, Didn't get lightheaded.
Mrs Baggins
I understand it blows up pretty fast (I don't smoke, never have, and the BA Air Core took me too long to inflate)
Considering that both the BA and Neo Air have about the same volume in the same size (IE 20x72x2.5" R size) my guess is that the Neo Air will take YOU about the same time to inflate.
Franco
Skidsteer
01-30-2010, 20:42
OK seriously how long do these things take to blow up? I would bet that people that like to smoke on the trail would have a hard time with this pad.
I saw one today in person, wow it was small.
If you can put on a pack and hike to the top of a mountain, you can inflate a Neo-air.
So you're going to pick a pad based on your smoking habit? Wow. I understand it blows up pretty fast (I don't smoke, never have, and the BA Air Core took me too long to inflate). Maybe it's time to re-evaluate the smoking habit if you're going to let it interfere with a good night's sleep. :-?
OK seriously how long do these things take to blow up? I would bet that people that like to smoke on the trail would have a hard time with this pad.
I saw one today in person, wow it was small.
I dont smoke, but this pad LOOKS like it would be a chore to blow up.
Mountain Wildman
01-30-2010, 21:39
I read many reviews on the Neo-Air before purchasing it, I was surprised at how quickly I was able to blow mine up (25 X 77), There is significant baffling inside and that must make all the difference. Never blew up a Big Agnes but I will be inflating my Neo-Air every night for 5 to 7 months. I anticipate no problems with inflating it after hiking all day. And it only weighs 19 oz. and is 4 1/2" X 10". I am happy with my purchase. But like all gear, It's a personal decision. What's right for me could be wrong for you. I am comfort driven and will carry extra weight to be comfortable.
So you're going to pick a pad based on your smoking habit? Wow.
LOL. Yeah, Mrs. Baggins, it's the NeoAirs fault!
I would also like to point out, in my experience, no matter what a gear manufacturer might say there is no such thing as a self inflating sleeping pad. If you are not going to even come close to fully inflating a sleeping pad you don't need an inflatable pad. Buy a closed cell foam pad so you can complain about them.
Kerosene
01-31-2010, 10:34
If you can backpack up and down mountains all day then you can blow up a NeoAir without dying. It takes 7-10 big breaths to blow up my NeoAir short, but then I've got good lung capacity as a non-smoking singer.
ShelterLeopard
02-01-2010, 12:08
Doesn't take too long. It can be deceiving though- after the first 5 breaths, it still looks very flat, but after two more, it's pretty much full. Just don't blow too fast, or you might get lightheaded... (Mine is regular sized, by the way)
Does anyone know if the Neoair fits into the thermarest chair attachment?
And, how does the Neoair compare to the Big Agnes Insulated Air Core?
(comfort, pack size, etc).
ShelterLeopard
02-02-2010, 13:24
I doubt it fits- the chair converter is designed for a thinner pad, like the 1 inch foam thermarests- the neoair would probably be too thick, and you might pop the baffles if you tried.
ShelterLeopard
02-02-2010, 13:28
Though, their claim is that the chair (one of the chairs) "fits easily over any 20" wide therma-rest mattress".
Jester2000
02-02-2010, 15:13
Though, their claim is that the chair (one of the chairs) "fits easily over any 20" wide therma-rest mattress".
Saw that. I'm imagining they haven't updated the description on the chair since the NeoAir came out.
JonnyWalker
02-02-2010, 15:26
Wouldn't a Neoair and some form of closed cell foam pad actually weigh more and take up more space than just taking a Big Agnes insulated pad?
Jester2000
02-02-2010, 15:33
Wouldn't a Neoair and some form of closed cell foam pad actually weigh more and take up more space than just taking a Big Agnes insulated pad?
Haven't looked into the weights, but I'd say possibly/probably. But I think the idea of doing that has to do with the frequency of need for the insulation.
If you're on a thru-hike, you need insulation for the first couple of weeks and the last couple of weeks. So I guess there's a question as to what one wants to do. You could carry a BA insulated mattress the whole way (lighter than the setup with a closed cell foam pad included, but heavier than what you'd carry for the majority of the trip if doing it the other way), or you could go with carrying extra insulation for just parts of the hike.
I know that I carried a Z-Lite for most of the PCT, and carried my thermarest as well for the last few weeks in Washington. Worked for me. But to each his own!
JonnyWalker
02-02-2010, 15:38
Couldn't you just switch over to a Big Agnes unisulated or clearview? They only cost about 40 bucks and weigh the same as a neoair. They just don't have the mylar layers which probably add a bit of warmth.
Jester2000
02-02-2010, 16:51
Couldn't you just switch over to a Big Agnes unisulated or clearview? They only cost about 40 bucks and weigh the same as a neoair. They just don't have the mylar layers which probably add a bit of warmth.
You could do just about anything. If your question is "would it be equivalent," the answer is no.
They just don't have the mylar layers which probably add a bit of warmth.
The Neo Air has an R value of 2.5 , similar to most 1" self inflating mats. (the Prolite is R2.2)
The BA ClearView has no insulation.
Franco
JonnyWalker
02-02-2010, 18:41
If the clearview has no insulation wouldn't it be completely useless bellow 60 degrees? I don't have any experience with unisulated pads so I'm a bit curious.
Well it must have some sort of R value , BA claims R1; considering that Exped calls their uninsulated (but thicker fabric) mat R0.7 I would assume this to be a more accurate figure.
From Exped :
"The AirMat 7 Pump has an R-value of 1.5 compared to the 0.7 reached by mats like the Airmat 7.5 without baffled chambers"
Franco
ShelterLeopard
02-02-2010, 20:03
Saw that. I'm imagining they haven't updated the description on the chair since the NeoAir came out.
Yep- that's kinda what I thought.
Wouldn't a Neoair and some form of closed cell foam pad actually weigh more and take up more space than just taking a Big Agnes insulated pad?
What I'm doing is taking the NeoAir for my thru, and for the winter months (late Feb- early April), I'm also taking a half length ridgerest, for added warmth.
I just bought a 1/4" foam pad from Gossamer Gear to use during the winter. Wt. 3 3/4 oz.
Jester2000
02-02-2010, 20:20
If the clearview has no insulation wouldn't it be completely useless bellow 60 degrees? I don't have any experience with unisulated pads so I'm a bit curious.
Well it must have some sort of R value , BA claims R1; considering that Exped calls their uninsulated (but thicker fabric) mat R0.7 I would assume this to be a more accurate figure.
From Exped :
"The AirMat 7 Pump has an R-value of 1.5 compared to the 0.7 reached by mats like the Airmat 7.5 without baffled chambers"
Franco
Yes. The way you should think of it is that lying on the ground with nothing would give you an insulation value of zero (or possibly even a negative value). So something underneath you will give you some insulation, although not much if it's an uninsulated pad like the clearview. Essentially, I believe Jonnywalker's question should get an affirmative answer as regards insulation. But I find that hikers buy them more for padding than insulation, and only use them in the summer months.
anybody know what's the R value on the Walmart blue camp pads? another hiker posted her he uses a 1/4" foam pad from Gossamer gear, which is lightweight,but what is the R value?
Wouldn't a Neoair and some form of closed cell foam pad actually weigh more and take up more space than just taking a Big Agnes insulated pad?
Maybe Yes Maybe No. I guess much of it depends on the wt of the closed cell foam pad. What I currently like to do(of course their may be a better way for you) is use a Neo Air short for 3 season thru-hiking with either my bivy sack or Tyvek or GG polyethylene plastic as a ground cloth. When it starts getting colder I go to the med length NeoAir and GG Thinlight combo for added R value insulation. If it gets to damn it's #@%$ cold I can't feel my @#$* I increase the insulation even more.
It's not just about total wt but finding the right balance of factors such as versatility, cost, insulation, comfort, etc. for vaying conditions and hikes.
RE post 51
The GG 1/4" thinlight (evazote) has an R 0.9 value. The "blue" mat is around R 1.35 or less, depending on the amount of EVA used in it.
A good test is to squash the foam with your thumb and index finger. The faster it springs back, the better it is.
Franco
Franco, did you get over to Melbourne Park for any of the tennis matches?
I assume having a pad that springs back faster has something to do with it having more air or trapped gas bubbles incorporated into the closed cell foam? Air insulates! Bubbles also takes up space so something that insulates better using air or trapped gas bubbles is often thicker/bulkier.
Skidsteer
02-02-2010, 23:25
If the clearview has no insulation wouldn't it be completely useless bellow 60 degrees? I don't have any experience with unisulated pads so I'm a bit curious.
No, not really. I have slept on mine at 55 F. in a 45F. bag and been toasty warm. I suppose it varies quite a bit from person to person and my suspicion is that the ground temp is huge in the equation.
I.E., if the air temp has been sub freezing for the past week and it suddenly warms up to 55F. overnight lows, I think a Clearview would get chilly indeed.
skinewmexico
02-03-2010, 01:11
I just bought a 1/4" foam pad from Gossamer Gear to use during the winter. Wt. 3 3/4 oz.
+1 on the Gossamer Gear Thinlight. But you know this crowd, if it doesn't say Thermarest on it somewhere, it doesn't exist.
Re Post 54
I went for several years because work paid for it. Often in the Amexo box, center court...
Now I am poor,unemployed and spend my time posting silly comments on the net.
Franco
Jayboflavin04
02-03-2010, 08:33
+1 on the Gossamer Gear Thinlight. But you know this crowd, if it doesn't say Thermarest on it somewhere, it doesn't exist.
I dont agree with you on that Ski....I was kinda like that when I started out buying gear. Basically because that is all I knew. But I am on my 3rd model and have never had any problems (yet). Thats why I have stuck with Therma rest