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icemanat95
01-28-2010, 13:16
This is a new stove designed and manufactured by the brother of a friend of mine. He is an engineer working in Italy, and the founder of the Worldstove company. The mission of the company is actually to build high efficiency biomass stoves for use in developing countries. The idea is to eliminate open cooking fires, which are only about 17% efficient and extremely dangerous for children, by making small, inexpensive and highly efficient (over 80%) biomass stoves. I don't understand the science involved, but the stoves are biomass gassification systems which achieve extremely high efficiency. The basic design is scalable to household heating, electrical generation, water heating, etc. The backpacking and recreational product line is secondary to this primary mission, but uses the same technology.

The stoves are quite small and light, though a bit more expensive than most. They are much more efficient than the competition however and require no power. The profits from these stoves are used to support projects in the developing world. I can guarantee that Nathaniel is not getting wealthy on this.


http://cgi.ebay.com/THE-BEANER-Multi-Fuel-Biomass-Alcohol-Camp-Cook-Stove_W0QQitemZ250550093089QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item3a55f30521 (http://cgi.ebay.com/THE-BEANER-Multi-Fuel-Biomass-Alcohol-Camp-Cook-Stove_W0QQitemZ250550093089QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item3a55f30521)

For more information on WorldStove and its broader mission:

WorldStove (http://worldstove.com/)


I strongly urge anyone looking for a more environmentally and socially responsible way to cook on trail, to consider the WorldStove Beaner stove.

JAK
01-28-2010, 13:36
Nice looking design. According to the specs it burns biomass at about 2000 BTU/hour.
The peak burn rate to heat 2 cups in 4 minutes would be about 3500 BTU/hr. Seems about right. The performance and weight are comparable to a Kelly Kettle, but it can also be used for boiling water and drying socks. Good to see another biomass stove.

Pictures are interesting:
http://worldstove.com/products/the-beaner-backpacking-stove/

Ender
01-28-2010, 13:44
Great looking stove, though he *really* needs to pick another name for this. Especially if he's planning on it being sold in developing countries like, say... Mexico. Not trying to be funny at all, that name could cause him problems w/ marketing and public image.

Otherwise, looks like a great system!

Toolshed
01-28-2010, 13:50
This is a new stove designed and manufactured by the brother of a friend of mine. He is an engineer working in Italy, and the founder of the Worldstove company. The mission of the company is actually to build high efficiency biomass stoves for use in developing countries. The idea is to eliminate open cooking fires, which are only about 17% efficient and extremely dangerous for children, by making small, inexpensive and highly efficient (over 80%) biomass stoves. I don't understand the science involved, but the stoves are biomass gassification systems which achieve extremely high efficiency. The basic design is scalable to household heating, electrical generation, water heating, etc. The backpacking and recreational product line is secondary to this primary mission, but uses the same technology.

The stoves are quite small and light, though a bit more expensive than most. They are much more efficient than the competition however and require no power. The profits from these stoves are used to support projects in the developing world. I can guarantee that Nathaniel is not getting wealthy on this.


http://cgi.ebay.com/THE-BEANER-Multi-Fuel-Biomass-Alcohol-Camp-Cook-Stove_W0QQitemZ250550093089QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item3a55f30521 (http://cgi.ebay.com/THE-BEANER-Multi-Fuel-Biomass-Alcohol-Camp-Cook-Stove_W0QQitemZ250550093089QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item3a55f30521)

For more information on WorldStove and its broader mission:

WorldStove (http://worldstove.com/)


I strongly urge anyone looking for a more environmentally and socially responsible way to cook on trail, to consider the WorldStove Beaner stove.
what does it mean - You need only add an 8 oz can as a consumable item??? Consumable by the twig fire? not sure I follow - Is this kinda lika zip stove without a fan?

JAK
01-28-2010, 13:57
I like stuff like this which is what I call "engineering for the poor". It's a logical extension on the idea of "economics of the poor" from Indian economist that won a Nobel prize I think, for his work. When asked why he put so much work into "economics of the poor", he simply said that most people are poor, so why focus on "economics of the rich" like everyone else. He was simply being modest, but he makes a good point. Economics and engineering for regular folks is generally more interesting, with more opportunities for new ideas, because most people are focusing on stuff that will make more money. Of course most of the ideas aren't really all that new, but nothing really is. Still worth doing.

JAK
01-28-2010, 14:06
what does it mean - You need only add an 8 oz can as a consumable item??? Consumable by the twig fire? not sure I follow - Is this kinda lika zip stove without a fan?The 8oz can is to use to hold vegetable oil if you want to use some vegetable oil to boost the performance. That would be particularly useful in wet cold weather, with damp biomass. The oil vapourizes and gases ignite as it comes up through the burner. The gasification idea exists in all biomass stoves, including the Kelly Kettle or a simple hobo stove. The difference is that gasification stoves are designed to enhance the process. The idea is really just to make sure volatile gasses don't escape without burning. With a hobo stove or Kelly Kettle you can try and get the same effect buy burning from the top down.

flemdawg1
01-28-2010, 15:15
Neat concept, 8oz is a bit heavy though. Especially onsidering that a Ti-Tri Caldera system (including alchy and esbit stoves, caddy, fuel bottle and the POT) is only 9.6oz.

Slo-go'en
01-28-2010, 15:32
I like it, I think I'll buy one soon. Thanks for the heads up.

Spokes
01-28-2010, 18:09
Sure would be nice to see a Youtube video of the beaner in action instead of just photo's.

Found this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fZenKsDamQ)dated May, 2009. Early prototypes?

Spokes
01-28-2010, 18:41
...... I don't understand the science involved, but the stoves are biomass gassification systems which achieve extremely high efficiency.
......



I don't understand either. This is all interesting but as I looked over the Worldstove webpage I could tell an Italian engineer had something to do with it! I'm still sorta scratching my head about it all.

I had to chuckle when I read under the Beaner's description:

"This is a low-cost introduction to micro-gasification which allows you to begin experimenting with turning biomass into clean, blue-burning gas".

and thought- Dude, all I want to do is boil some water for my ramen noodles.....


Here's wishing your friend much success.

brooklynkayak
01-28-2010, 18:48
8 oz isn't that bad considering the extra metal required to make a gasification stove.
8 oz also isn't bad compared to stoves that require that you carry fuel.

For those that didn't know, the gasification design, burns more efficiently, less smoke and probably much less soot on your pot.

The price is reasonable. Now if they had one made out of Titanium, the UL crowd would buy it.

brooklynkayak
01-28-2010, 18:53
I had to chuckle when I read under the Beaner's description:

"This is a low-cost introduction to micro-gasification which allows you to begin experimenting with turning biomass into clean, blue-burning gas".

and thought- Dude, all I want to do is boil some water for my ramen noodles...

That line wasn't meant for us backpackers, it was meant for people who would want to use the stove to study the concept and it's useful purpose as a furnace, home cooking stove, water heater...

Spokes
01-28-2010, 20:36
That line wasn't meant for us backpackers, it was meant for people who would want to use the stove to study the concept and it's useful purpose as a furnace, home cooking stove, water heater...

So, is he wanting to sell them or have people write a white paper on them?

icemanat95
01-28-2010, 20:39
I don't understand either. This is all interesting but as I looked over the Worldstove webpage I could tell an Italian engineer had something to do with it! I'm still sorta scratching my head about it all.

I had to chuckle when I read under the Beaner's description:

"This is a low-cost introduction to micro-gasification which allows you to begin experimenting with turning biomass into clean, blue-burning gas".

and thought- Dude, all I want to do is boil some water for my ramen noodles.....


Here's wishing your friend much success.

Nathaniel is multi-national. He was born and raised (mostly) in Massachusetts. His dad is an Irish American professor of biology (multi-PhD). His mom is an Italian professor of biology, multiple PhDs there as well. They both taught at UMASS. Because his mother is Italian with family in Italy, they spent a lot of non-school time in Italy (near Milan) and Nathaniel now lives there full time. His parents split their time between Amherst, MA and Italy.

A lot of the design elements from the world stoves come from jet turbine engines and are designed to control how the various gasses flow through the unit (thus the characteristic swirled pattern of the flame output). There is a ton of really interesting engineering in these things to make them so incredibly efficient, at low weight and high durability.

The Lucia Stove is the primary model designed for third world use. It's actually named after his dog. The Lucia stove is actually designed to be sold in bulk and built and distributed in country as a cottage industry. Nathaniel had an interesting time passing through security at an airport carrying a suitcase full of Lucia Stoves (dissassembled). Nathaniel is very Italian looking, but at that point he had grown a rather bushy beard. He got profiled and they went over everything with a fine toothed comb.

They use various scales of World Stove in Africa for everything from communal cooking, to hot water heating, electrical generation, and just about anything else you can think of. The fuel is cheap to free. emissions are low to carbon negative depending upon the efficiency of the fuel and set up, and the byproducts are soil nutrients.

As the company settles in and grows, I suspect that we will see some interesting things and maybe some more backpacker competitive models. Anyhow, I think the company is worth suppporting, even if my friend weren't the owner.

Spokes
01-28-2010, 21:11
........ Anyhow, I think the company is worth suppporting, even if my friend weren't the owner.


icemanat95, try to convince Nathaniel to put together a Youtube video showing how "The Beaner" burns then share the link here. I suspect it'll go a long way convincing people to buy one.

No better marketing tool than seeing how it works (a la zelph stoveworks).


Thanks for sharing.

tammons
01-28-2010, 21:22
Nice looking unit, but isnt this just basically an efficient burning wood gas stove ??

Toolshed
01-28-2010, 21:25
The 8oz can is to use to hold vegetable oil if you want to use some vegetable oil to boost the performance. That would be particularly useful in wet cold weather, with damp biomass. The oil vapourizes and gases ignite as it comes up through the burner. The gasification idea exists in all biomass stoves, including the Kelly Kettle or a simple hobo stove. The difference is that gasification stoves are designed to enhance the process. The idea is really just to make sure volatile gasses don't escape without burning. With a hobo stove or Kelly Kettle you can try and get the same effect buy burning from the top down.
OK thanks....

mkmangold
01-29-2010, 00:30
I like stuff like this which is what I call "engineering for the poor". It's a logical extension on the idea of "economics of the poor" from Indian economist that won a Nobel prize I think, for his work. When asked why he put so much work into "economics of the poor", he simply said that most people are poor, so why focus on "economics of the rich" like everyone else.

You may be referring to E.F. Schumacher who wrote a book called "Small is Beautiful" about this concept: http://www.smallisbeautiful.org/

Many of his ideas were picked up by officials in India. Or, it could be someone else.

mkmangold
01-29-2010, 00:35
And thanks for the info iceman

beakerman
01-29-2010, 02:06
Nice looking unit, but isnt this just basically an efficient burning wood gas stove ??


From what I gather yes.

They seem to have managed to get the generation process going very well...not sure how they did it I'd have to have one to look at very closely.

The gassification process is basically a charcoal making process where you are burning off the incomplete oxidation products of the destructive distillation. You use the hot charcoal to reduce the carbon dioxide and water to carbon monoxide and hydrogen (that makes them incomplete combustion products again) then you finish oxidizing them back to carbon dioxide and water.

tammons
01-29-2010, 02:54
I read a while back, this same story about this guy that supposedly invented the wood gas stove to help third world countries. This seems like a re-run to me or maybe its somebody new. This paper was from 1996. See the PDF in this link. It was written by Reed and Larson. Nothing new.

http://www.woodgas.com/Woodgas%20stove.pdf

Here is a photo of a tractor running on wood gas. I think the photo is from the 40s or 50s. I need one for my car.

http://wood-gas.blogspot.com/2008/01/construction-of-simplified-wood-gas.html

I have made a few wood gas stoves myself.

One weighs about 3oz, burns for 15-20 minutes, and basically leaves you with a tiny amount of white ash. No fan and no moving parts.

Took a lot of experimenting to get it to work right and I did nothing fancy. The technology has been around for a long time and is nothing new. Once you get the holes set up right and matched to the spacing between the inner and outer shell vs height its not a big deal, then it just might take minor refinements. I actually make mine with a sardine can, a heineken can and a can punch/bottle opener and a can opener rather than a drill just so I would know how to make one in the field.

That said if everybody that hiked the AT used a wood gas stove, small twigs and dry dead wood would be in short supply so maybe something else would be better like a stove that burns refuse.

Personally I want a micro dutch oven that weighs like 4 oz so I can cook some bannock or some bread every now and then. I am getting close on that one.

Still it is interesting. Doesnt help countries like Haiti though. They have cut down all the trees long ago to make charcoal so they need a different technology.

All I have to do is watch a few Ray Mears vidoes to realize that I really dont need a wood gas stove anyway, and that less is more sometimes.

I used to always cook on a small fire.
Its great.
If you know what you are doing rake off some coals and cook at any temperature you want. Not as fast as a stove, but still fine for the evening and I would rather look at a fire than a wood gas stove anyway.

A dakota hole is cool, but a bit of a PIA to make.

rgarling
01-29-2010, 13:11
That is a beautiful little stove. Amazing flame patterns. The pot stand needs some work, but really a nice idea.

Ray Garlington

icemanat95
01-29-2010, 13:25
icemanat95, try to convince Nathaniel to put together a Youtube video showing how "The Beaner" burns then share the link here. I suspect it'll go a long way convincing people to buy one.

No better marketing tool than seeing how it works (a la zelph stoveworks).


Thanks for sharing.

I'll pass it along.

Andrew

zelph
01-29-2010, 18:20
That is a beautiful little stove. Amazing flame patterns. The pot stand needs some work, but really a nice idea.

Ray Garlington

Hi Ray, I'd like to hear your take on woodgas stoves. Do you think this little beaner is just another wood burner.

We know all wood needs to gassify in order to burn. One little match starts the process. Your top lit design shows us that the process will work it's way down and consume the fuel. Do you believe the double wall makes a wood burner so much better than your single wall?

We see so many photos of the supposed jets of gas coming into the center of the double walled stoves. Do you believe it's wood gas burning or just air coming in? Thanks for your input on this.

tammons
01-29-2010, 19:20
Uninvited, but I will chime in.

Anybody can build one of these things.
It just takes some tinkering.

Once a wood gas stove gets going and goes into gas mode they just mostly provide a cleaner more controlled burn. It will still smoke your pot, but it leaves very little residue. They also burn hotter.

This particular type of stove burns from the top down obviously.

In general when it is starting up the wood gas goes straight up like in a normal fire.

As the side chamber heats up the wood gas gets drawn down and into the side chamber and mixes with air that is drawn in from the bottom.

That gas mixes with the air and rises through the side chamber (heat rises and thus the need for the soda can) comes out of the top jets and burns.

Here are a few pics of one I set up a while back out of some simple materials made with a can opener, IE doable on the road.
Since then I decided although the insulation helped a bit , I did not think it was worth the weight.

I have made some minor changes since then.

Also a heavier gage steel outer can seems to help them fire off faster.
The more heat it can hold between the inner and outer walls the better.

Also you might need a starter of some sort depending on the type of wood
and its condition. Very dry tiny twigs, chips or shavings, you wont need much.
Larger pieces probably.
Wet wood is a problem.

This particular stove burned about 23 minutes total on 1.2 oz of wood chips and
the left over residue was white ash the would fill about 1/4 tsp.

http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z300/tammons3/Wood%20gas%20stove/

The 6th photo is starting up.
The 7th photo is a full gas burn and all of the flames are coming out of the jets.
The 8th photo is on its last legs but still putting out some wood gas.

JAK
01-29-2010, 21:06
Very interesting thread, and many interesting stoves.

Doooglas
01-30-2010, 18:21
Great looking stove, though he *really* needs to pick another name for this. Especially if he's planning on it being sold in developing countries like, say... Mexico. Not trying to be funny at all, that name could cause him problems w/ marketing and public image.

Otherwise, looks like a great system!

Yep political correctness.
He'll get called an anti Legumic and put on the AFL hate list.
American Frijole League.

Very cool stove. I'm a pyromaniac so I usually cook on a fire.

I might get one for my son to try out. He lives up there and I guess there are many places where you can't have an open fire ??? :mad:

mkmangold
01-31-2010, 02:18
Yep political correctness. I might get one for my son to try out. He lives up there and I guess there are many places where you can't have an open fire ??? :mad:

Does anyone know: is cooking in a Beaner, WoodGas Stove, or Zipp Stove considered an open fire?

Hikes in Rain
01-31-2010, 08:16
Usually so, yes, but there are exceptions here and there.

zelph
01-31-2010, 16:48
Tammons.....when you introduce air into flames of this nature:

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z300/tammons3/Wood%20gas%20stove/wg8.jpg

it divides the flame into sections, it's a visual thing, it's not "wood gas" that you see coming from the top holes, just plain ordinary air.

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z300/tammons3/Wood%20gas%20stove/wg7.jpg

icemanat95
01-31-2010, 17:44
The titanium "Beaner" is already in final testing and prepping for production release in March time frame. Needed a lot of re-design because of the different thermal properties of Ti compared to Stainless.

Right now Nathaniel and some members of his team are in Haiti building and distriubuting Lucia stoves. I expect they are just donating them because that's the kind of guy Nathaniel is.

rgarling
01-31-2010, 18:16
Hi Ray, I'd like to hear your take on woodgas stoves. Do you think this little beaner is just another wood burner.

We know all wood needs to gassify in order to burn. One little match starts the process. Your top lit design shows us that the process will work it's way down and consume the fuel. Do you believe the double wall makes a wood burner so much better than your single wall?

We see so many photos of the supposed jets of gas coming into the center of the double walled stoves. Do you believe it's wood gas burning or just air coming in? Thanks for your input on this.

The Beaner is "just" a stainless steel sleve that is sized to fit inside a 12oz soda can, with holes drilled for the primary and secondary air supply. It probably will work best packed with wood fuel and then top lit; however, the web page says fuel can be added as it burns. It is a little taller than most of the can-based stoves and a little narrower. Also, it is the smallest passive tlud stove I have seen. There must be something about the geometry of the stove that is important. I like the idea that it can burn alcohol and other flammable liquids in addition to wood. Plus it is a cute little thing isn't it? Sometimes, the simplest ideas are the best ones.

I'm not sure about the double wall designs, but if you want to insulate the outside skin, you are probably stuck with the 2 wall design (assuming you want simple construction). The apparent jets are just currents of air igniting gasses that are in need of additional oxygen. Capturing and recirculating woodgas for ignition requires an air pump of some sort.

The common top-lit woodgas stoves that have a fan are using the 2 wall design as a pressurized air plenum. The air is force fed into the primary and secondary by the fan. I bought one of them just to watch it burn. They are pretty amazing.

zelph
01-31-2010, 19:22
The titanium "Beaner" is already in final testing and prepping for production release in March time frame. Needed a lot of re-design because of the different thermal properties of Ti compared to Stainless.
.

And now enter the Titanium, we read the writing on the wall:)

Ender
01-31-2010, 19:35
Yep political correctness.

Like it or not, the word "beaner" is an ethnic slur, considered very inappropriate.

I also think political correctness often goes too far. But never discount the ability of crazy people to become offended at something totally benign, and screw up the marketing for an otherwise excellent product.

And to answer the open fire question... yes, for the most part these stoves are considered as having an open fire.

mkmangold
01-31-2010, 19:48
Like it or not, the word "beaner" is an ethnic slur, considered very inappropriate.

No kidding: it's because of the large amount of beans in the Mexican diet. I get offended when someone calls me a "Schnitzel" too.

I'm glad Nathaniel is in Haiti, too. I tried getting alcohol stoves there but was told there isn't a need. I disagree. Sterilizing water is important and cooking food broadens choices. Good for him!

zelph
01-31-2010, 22:07
As the side chamber heats up the wood gas gets drawn down and into the side chamber and mixes with air that is drawn in from the bottom.

That gas mixes with the air and rises through the side chamber (heat rises and thus the need for the soda can) comes out of the top jets and burns.


Here are some photos of the single wall stove burning some "gooGone" citrus cleaner to produce some orange flame to show the air pattern entering the holes at the top. Just plain ole air entering and pushing into the rising flames to make it look like what some people say is wood gas burning in a double wall wood burner. What you see here is a single wall stove makingthe same pattern in the flames. No Wood Gas, "Urban Legend"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/th_campout007.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/?action=view&current=campout007.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/th_campout005.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/?action=view&current=campout005.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/th_campout002.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/?action=view&current=campout002.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/th_campout001.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/?action=view&current=campout001.jpg)

mkmangold
01-31-2010, 22:44
Burning wood vs. burning woodgas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZPvLpexXFw&feature=player_embedded

I have this puppy. Kind of heavy but I don't have to carry fuel either.

zelph
02-01-2010, 13:57
Burning wood vs. burning woodgas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZPvLpexXFw&feature=player_embedded

I have this puppy. Kind of heavy but I don't have to carry fuel either.
You got the mega big one????

Got to carry and axe and baterries????

Not really, your sons can collect the necessary wood, make them the foragers;) they can use their hands to break the fuel:)

mkmangold
02-01-2010, 20:56
You got the mega big one????

Got to carry and axe and baterries????

Not really, your sons can collect the necessary wood, make them the foragers;) they can use their hands to break the fuel:)

Too funny! I meant this brand not this particular one. I have the smallest edition. The video is meant to help clarify the difference between a stove that burns wood and one that burns woodgas.

zelph
02-02-2010, 00:47
Too funny! I meant this brand not this particular one. I have the smallest edition. The video is meant to help clarify the difference between a stove that burns wood and one that burns woodgas.

The video helps to see wood gas being burned.:)

All wood produces gas when heated to a specific temperature. Once the gases start coming off you put a match close to the gas and poof.....it ignites. Three necessary things are present....air, heat and the match provides the fire for source of ignition. A spark from a ferro rod could ignite it also.

In the video we see a piece of burning birch bark used as the heat source to gassify the wood and is also the source of ignition of the gasses being produced.

Heat, fire and air combined produce woodgas not the stove. The stove is just a container to hold the wood. There are double walled containers to hold the wood, they are not magical, they don't produce wood gas.

In the video we see the gas being produced right on top of the pile of wood, the stove has nothing to do with producing the wood gas.

I wish all of you well on your venture into the use of wood as fuel for your meals and campfire evenings before retiring for the night.

icemanat95
02-03-2010, 10:00
Nathaniel and crew are postings updates on what they are doing in Haiti on the WorldStove, LLC page on Facebook. It's worth a look. Not only are they down there building stoves, but they are manufacturing components locally to help the Port Au Prince economy.

Ender
02-03-2010, 10:07
Nathaniel and crew are postings updates on what they are doing in Haiti on the WorldStove, LLC page on Facebook. It's worth a look. Not only are they down there building stoves, but they are manufacturing components locally to help the Port Au Prince economy.

That's awesome! Good for them. :sun

icemanat95
02-03-2010, 15:58
Here's a link to an article on what they are doing down there:

article (http://haitirewired.wired.com/profiles/blogs/cook-stoves-that-produce-more)

zelph
02-04-2010, 11:14
We need some real feedback from and owner, Iceman, buy one and report.....




Using the Beaner is different than normal camping stoves! Instead of using fuels derived from fossil petroleum, you use biomass (wood, cones, twigs, acorns, etc.) found locally where you are camping. The technical difference is that instead of BURNING the solid fuel to create ash and release the CO2 back into the atmosphere, the Beaner GASIFIES the solid fuel into mostly hydrogen, and then burns the gas – working just like a kitchen stove or gas grill!



Something very suspicious about this stove, the way they are advertising it. I've burned a lot of wood in all different size and shapes of stoves. Somebody needs to do some serious tests on this thing and repot.(not me, I'm too busy right now and I don't think this thing is on the upandup

zelph
02-27-2010, 20:59
I took some time out and tested the Beaner stove. It doesn't work with twigs. I have not tested it with wood pellets but others over on Hammock Forums have and you can visit there to get filled in on more info about this stove.

Here is some info from Hammock Forums: a link to the 51 page thread and then some quotes and links.

"TLUD Stoves" on Hammock Forums (http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12425)

Tests performed by "Pedro" and "Sailor"

By "Pedro" http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showpost.php?p=186433&postcount=220

Up to this point, I've been talking about using this stove with pellets. Pellets are a very compact, granular, dense fuel compared to sticks and twigs. And there's the problem as I see it. This stove seems to work best with the compact type of fuel. The testing that I have done so far with sticks and twigs has been very disappointing. It looks like the burn chamber is just too small to work very well with this type of fuel. Too much air gets through the fuel pile. The wood I was using is less than half as dense as pellets, and burned up very quickly. I also tested with mesquite chips, with more or less the same results. I am going to do some more testing, but my initial impressions are that because the burn chamber is so small, I cannot use it in the field unless I want to carry my own fuel. It also does not perform nearly as well as my tin can stove for the task of boiling water in a short time without undue sooting of my pot. This is also due to the burn chambers very small size. I would think that for agricultural waste products like nut shells, cherry pits, or dried dung (all of which are very compact fuel sources) this stove would perform fine, if a little slow. For a stove that uses foraged sticks, I don't think that this will work.
Messing around with this stove has taught me a few things, and I might keep it even if I can't make it work for my intended use. I am eagerly awaiting results from others.



by"Sailor" http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12425&page=30

Tonight I did three test burns with the Beaner, using pellets:
1) normal configuration, as described by NM, with soda can as outer wall, holes near bottom of soda can;
2) shortened soda can, no bottom, and bottom above inner walls lower holes, which should a) reduce draw (shorter length); b) reduce volatiles exhaust from lower inner wall holes traveling up by venturi or any other effect to upper inner wall holes (where the flames are seen; c) no out can at all

1) burns seemed remarkably similar; flame patterns, heights, colors didn't look any different; maybe the #a config produced a slightly higher flame, but only by 1/2" or so;
2) clearly little or no interface / exchange between upper/lower inner wall holes in config #c.
3) only very small amounts of glowing coals; however, looking in through lower holes, very visible.
4) (Most interesting to me). #c seemed the most interesting burn. After things settled down, I had greater percentage of blue flame than other configs. Also had the most destinct flame, although the top of the flame was the lowest, as follows:
41) a nearly perfectly shaped "crown" or halo, little spikes from each hole, nearly entire crown blue, beginning about 1/3" from inner walls and extending to about 1/2" from inner walls, leaving a center section nearly 1" dia free of visible flame.
42) the tips of the crown bent upward, as flames are wont to do, and then nearly disappeared.
43) extending up from the rising crown, beginning above the level of the three large holes at the top of the cylinder, a tri-tipped flame--clearly moving air through those holes. This flame had a little blue, but mostly yellow. I had wondered at other times why the flame was never perfectly shaped in the normal configs, since it seemed so round as it started. Tonight, I was in the garage because of rain, so no air currents, and with the outer wall off, less velocity on the upper ring of holes, and the air flow of the 3 large holes was evident and explained.
44) After flame done, I poured out the char. Important to note, the lowest level of pellets was unmolested--still unchared, light brown. It would appear that the stove ran out of downward heat force as it passed the lower ring of holes.

I don't see TLOD in the Beaner, no matter the config. Venturi effect needs speed. At low flow velocities, its a small factor. I believe, like with physics strong/weak forces, the heat rising force is a far greater effect than venturi. That being said, the smoothness of the Beaner helps flow I'm sure. I plan on doing a much better job the out can to improve flow rates, and see what happens. Also, am building a cylinder twice as high to look for greater flow.






I tested the Beaner stove using twigs and you can view the entire thread at bplite.com (http://www.bplite.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=4303)

Hold off purchasing the stove for backpacking until you’ve read more about it.


http://www.bplite.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=4303

For those of you interested in wood burning, read the entire thread ar Hammock Forums, it's an interesting read.

zelph
02-28-2010, 23:07
.

If any of you out there have tested the Beaner, please post a comment.:)

NorthCountryWoods
03-02-2010, 10:24
Had high hopes for this one, but reviews on bplite are not really unexpected. Going by the pics, it's much smaller than expected (unless Zelph is a giant). That alone wouldn't bode well for fuel selection and stability.

The golden unicorn of bp wood gasifier stoves is in somebodies head somewhere....it's just a matter of time.

Keep up the good work Zelph.

JustaTouron
03-02-2010, 10:43
From all accounts zelph makes a good quality product at a reasonable price.

But I am a little uncomfortable with the idea of taking his word at it for the idea that a competitors product is substandard. I won't take William Clay Ford Jr. word for it if he says a Ford Focus hybrid is great car, nor if he was to say that a Honda Insight still has bugs and is not a viable electric car.

While I am skeptical of Worldstove's marketing claims, I have the same skepticism towards zelph's critique of a competing product.

JonnyWalker
03-02-2010, 11:12
Having tested multiple stoves of this style I can tell you its the size of this stove that keeps it from working as a backpacking stove. Sure it might boil enough water for a cup of tea but I really doubt you would want to go through the trouble of getting 2 cups of water to a boil on a wood stove this small. This stove isn't even in the same ballpark as Zelph's stoves. He works primarily with alcohol stoves and this thing obviously isn't going to compete with anything he makes.

Rockhound
03-02-2010, 11:36
Have not read every post but this idea, even if it is not new, is great. No more carrying fuel or canisters/bottles. This certainly compensates for any additional weight of the stove itself. In one post it mentioned if everyone on the trail used them the forest floor would be stripped clean. I disagree. Around shelters and established camping areas the forest floor has already been hit pretty hard for campfires. These stoves use only a minute amount of the biomass that a campfire does. Collect a handful or two of some nice dry twigs throughout the day and your good for a carbon neutral dinner and breakfast. For anyone who might argue that the stove violates LNT principles I say there is so much confusion and bickering even among advocates over LNT policies the whole idea needs to be rethought. People would rather waste time arguing over such inane ideas as packing out ones crap (even when privies are available) and whether or not just simply hiking the trail violates LNT rather than focusing on the big picture. What is best for the trail, the surrounding areas, and the Earth itself? These stoves,(if efficient) seem like a great solution. No carbon footprint and yes, it violates LNT, but it is an unnoticeable, negligable trace. If 5000 hikers each took a couple handfuls of twigs each day for 180 days you would wind up with enough to fill an olympic size pool. Spread that out over 2000 miles and you would have an amount far less than what Mother nature would replace each year. I may just have to get one of these. Anyone want to buy a Helios?

NorthCountryWoods
03-02-2010, 11:50
Collect a handful or two of some nice dry twigs throughout the day and your good for a carbon neutral dinner and breakfast.

Agreed. I have the woodgas stove (http://www.woodgas-stove.com/item_detail.php?id=4&) and never wait for camp to collect a few handfuls of twigs. A half cargo pocketful gets two of us thru dinner, marshmallows and breakfast. I have run into some that think using it is equivalent to clear cutting the amazon, but most are pretty impressed by it.

It is heavy tho. Got some free scrap material for copying it in Ti, but my welding skills are novice to say the least. Need a welder competent in working with Ti to Tig it.