View Full Version : space blanket groundsheet?
sierraDoug
09-19-2004, 23:16
I just unrolled my space blanket for the first time (it's been in my pack for emergencies). Thought it might make a good groundsheet, but it's very noisy and crinkly. Has anyone used one for a groundsheet, and how did you like it?
And if you didn't like it, what do you like for a groundsheet? Tyvek, 2 mil plastic, 3 mil plastic?
I used tyvek for my thru hike and liked it. It wasn't as lite as I would have liked but it did the job. It was loud, don't expect to see any wildlife when you roll that thing out at night. It was durable and held up.
markellag
09-20-2004, 07:53
I carry a space blanket for emergencies, and I have never removed it from its retail store container. I have been using 1 Mil plastic with good results. After reading this space blanket thread, I think I will switch to using my space blanket for a ground cloth and quit using the 1 mil plastic.
From time to time, I have used a space blanket as a ground sheet, especially in shelters. Before using it under my tent I'll need to cut it down to size.
I think that 1 mil plastic (like a dry cleaner bag) is too light for a ground sheet. A ground sheet should serve two purposes: Keep your sleeping bag or tent bottom clean, and to protect your sleeping pad and tent floor from punctures. You need something thicker than 1 mil to provide the puncture protection.
If you choose to use tyvek just run it through one cycle in the washing machine (no soap) and air dry. This process will soften the tyvek and make it noiseless while not affecting the moisture resistant properties of the fabric.
I personally think 2 mil painters cloth is the best option, being cheap, light, and easily available. I wrote a brief thread on this, somewhere in the Ultralight forum a few weeks ago.
[QUOTE=Peaks]From time to time, I have used a space blanket as a ground sheet, especially in shelters. [QUOTE]
And I bet the rest of the folks sharing the shelter with you spent their nights sleeping fitfully amidst the crinkling and crackling whilst having odd dreams where Pop-Tarts featured prominently.
I tried using space blankets on a number of trips and didn't like it. I found that it was too easy to puncture and tear. Twice I put my knee through it when the ground was soft, and once I ripped off a corner which was being held down by a rock. I have been pretty happy using tyvek, though it is noisy until it's gotten a bunch of use. 2mil plastic also works reasonably well.
--mark
sierraDoug
09-20-2004, 19:01
I'm going to buy some 2 or 3 mil plastic sheeting and use that. The space blanket is just too loud... and looks weak. I've heard good things about kite Tyvek, but the plastic is cheaper, I'm pretty sure. Up to now I've been using what I think is 5 mil plastic/Visqueen. Had it for many years. Starting to look for ways to lighten up all parts of my gear.
Thanks again. This is the best forum I've found for lightweight info.
Tyvek is the answer...just run in thru the washer 2-3 times with no suds and you are fine. No noise and soft as can be. A defined size of your sleeping area is less than 4 oz.!!
blindeye
09-21-2004, 08:54
thanks for the info on washing tyvek i'll try it!
A friend of mine built his own house and had extra tyvek, so he gave me some. I cut it to size for a tent footprint and liked it a lot - it was stronger than the plastic I used to use and didn't puncture nearly as easily, but it was a little krinkly. Can I wash it after I cut it to size or will the tyvek shrink?
Youngblood
09-21-2004, 10:18
This information is mostly relevant for using a ground sheet with a tarp.
I know that this has been mentioned before, but I am going to bring it up again. All ground sheet materials do not handle the basics of what a ground sheet should do the same way. If we compare plastics (and this includes mylar space blankets) with breathable materials, like tyvek, there are other differences to consider besides noise, weight, puncture resistance and durability.
The two that I am thinking of are waterproofness versus pressure and how the ground sheet handles condensation rising from the ground.
Tyvek is not waterproof to the same pressure as plastics and this can cause surface water to come through in some conditions when you are using tyvek where it would not have come through if you were using plastic. This is easy to see and quite evident when it happens, which is when standing water gets between the ground and the groundsheet and the groundsheet is weighted so that it can not float freely above the water... like when you are on top of it.
Ground condensation is sneakier and it is not always obvious what happened or that anything happened. If your groundsheet is breathable, the bottom of the groundsheet stays dry in dry weather when the ground has sub-surface water, but the underside of your tarp may collect the water vapor (that rises from the ground and passes through your breathable ground sheet) as condensation... the bottom of your waterproof sleeping mat may also collect some condensation. You may also not notice a dang thing because the bottom of your sleeping mat may be too warm for the water vapor to condense, your ventilation may be good enough to handle the extra water vapor or the outside air may be dry enough so that condensation does take place. Got that? In the same conditions (dry weather, sub-surface water), you will likely get condensation on the underside of a plastic groundsheet and none of the water vapor rising from the ground will pass though the groundsheet. What you have to deal with is a damp and maybe slightly muddied ground sheet each morning.
Anyhow, those are the other tradeoffs. Does this make one a clear winner? That is up to you and what you want to deal with because obviously people use both types of groundsheets and at least they think they work great for them.
Youngblood
Pencil Pusher
09-22-2004, 06:46
I've used the space blanket that has more of a tarp feel as a ground cloth a few times. I thought it served that purpose well, the size seemed to fit the footprint, more or less.
sierraDoug
09-22-2004, 15:00
Seems to me I read on one of these threads that it would shrink. And might lose some waterproofness. But hopefully someone who's tried it will reply. I've never tried Tyvek myself.
It won't shrink and it will lose waterproofness, but not over the course of a standard AT hike. It is not fully waterproof, but this generally isn't a problem unless it rains a lot and you have chosen a bad place to camp. If you want waterproof, get 2 mil plastic. Tyvek is more durable, but the 2 mil plastic is uber cheap, readily available, and durable enough.
TNFrosty
09-24-2004, 21:54
Anyone tried Spinnaker fabric? Gossamer Gear sells Spinnsheet ground cloths in 27" x 84" size.
Brushy Sage
09-25-2004, 19:43
Space blankets made of mylar are much tougher than others. I used one as a ground cover for three months on the AT, in shelters and in my tarp. I still carry it with me on overnight hikes and camping trips. Except for a few tears and holes that I patched with duct tape, it is still in good condition. Yes, it is a bit crinkly, and I remember waking up one night believing that mice were running all around, when it was just the space blanket noise. No hikers ever mentioned that it bothered them. In the mornings I learned to pull it out quietly and fold it some distance from the shelter so as not to disturb others.
I take one of those emergency blankets that are a kind of fabric on one side, mylar on the other and they have grommets so you can hang it for a tarp. It weighs more than the just mylar emergency blankets, but you can use them for for a blanket, groundcloth or tarp. I have used mine for two years as a ground cloth (fabric side down) and have had no rips or tears, no water leakage and they don't crinkle.
Fiddleback
10-21-2004, 11:15
For years I used plasic painters drop cloth as a ground cloth for my tent. This year I switched to a Hennessey Hammock and no longer carry a ground cloth (but do have that ubiquitous survival blanket in the survival kit).
A couple weeks ago in some thread of some forum or maybe a Yahoo group I read that there is an "adobe wrap" Tyvek which is waterproof. It isn't carried everywhere regular Tyvek is but it sounded like it'd be worthwhile to track some down.
FB
JimSproul
10-21-2004, 12:33
Not a common problem for the "thru hike season" but for winter hiking, even with the noise, the "space blankets" have a real advantage when tenting on snow. If the snow is deep enough that your tent is on top of it your body heat can give you a problem. Even with a pad or Thermarest you body can melt into the snow. If it refreezes it can be a pain in the neck to get out.
I like a cut to fit footprint myself, but Tyvek, Coated nylon and a heavy plastic have all worked fine. You might fine it is a good idea to cut is slightly smaller than the base of the tent.
Anyone tried Spinnaker fabric? Gossamer Gear sells Spinnsheet ground cloths in 27" x 84" size.
I have used my Spinnsheet a few times and I really like it. It is very light weight and pretty durable from what I can tell. It was wet one time when I used it and didn't notice any moisture seeping through into my bag.
oliander
08-11-2005, 18:30
I have experimented with many types of materials for ground cloth, including 2 mm plastic, a mylar space blanket, and Tyvec. The verdict? Tyvec. The space blanket worked well, it was durable and thin, but the Tyvec outdid it. Tyvec is indestructible (no tears after thousands of miles) and is less bulky than the space blanket. The reduced bulk makes a big difference if you are trying to reduce pack size/weight. Wash it twice in cold water (no soap/line dry), no more crinkle noise.
they are very noisy,if you become a hammock hanger,ya will never need another ground cloth:cool: neo