PDA

View Full Version : Will I Be Cold?



hotelseven
09-20-2004, 18:01
I am heading up for a 4 night trip to St. Andres Lake (east side of Algonquin Park) this Friday night. I plan on sleeping in my Hennessy Hammock, but have not done so at this time of the year. The temperatures have been dipping pretty low up there (just below freezing) and am wondering if anyone has slept in a hammock in temperatures around zero (I am sure many have!)? I have a decent down sleeping bag (rated to -9) and a thermarest. Any thoughts?

jlb2012
09-20-2004, 19:26
Well my experience is that yes you will be cold at 0 F but you may be OK at 0 C with a thermarest pad - I have done 0 C with a thermarest LE and a 0 deg F bag in a HH and been comfortable - I also used the hot water nalgene to keep me company :-)

A bit below 0 C and I would suggest a DAM instead of the thermarest - I have yet to be cold with a DAM in the hammock with me so I don't know how far down that combination will go.

I do know that 10 F with a Guidelite theramrest and the same 0 deg F bag was a fast way to freeze my ass off - I'll never do that one again.

hotelseven
09-20-2004, 21:15
Not to sound stupid, but what is a DAM?

Thanks for the reply......

gardenville
09-21-2004, 00:01
DAM = Down Air Mattress. I own one made by Stephenson's that has an "R" rating of about 9.5. I bought it to use in my Hammock for winter weather. They are really nice and are just nice to sleep on. The air mattress contours to the hammock better than a standard foam or self-inflating type sleeping pad. The air keeps the Down from being compressed so it retaines its insulating ability. If you want a "simple" way to keep your backside warm in the winter in your hammock the DAM is the way to go.

hotelseven
09-21-2004, 02:15
Ok I spent the last hour and a bit putting together a make-shift underquilt...Here it is: http://home.cogeco.ca/~webcamp/

I have no idea if it will work, but I will keep you posted after my trip this weekend!

Thanks again for the replies.

hotelseven
09-21-2004, 02:25
Gardenville,

Tks for explaining to me what a DAM is....looks like a great idea!

Mr. Clean
09-21-2004, 08:03
Where does one buy a Stevensons DAM, and are they any good? I'm not a the sewing type to make an under quilt.

Kerosene
09-21-2004, 08:40
I'd definitely go with at least a wide, closed-cell pad down to say, 45 degrees. The underquilt is probably your best bet for temperatures below that. I'm not as familiar with what a DAM would do for you, temp-wise.

gardenville
09-21-2004, 11:27
The link to "Stephenson's Warmlite" is

http://www.warmlite.com/start.htm "Warning" some products displayed with folks "el natural". They are not set-up for email reply but are easy to get on the phone. I have their DAM size called 64, it is 74" long, is 26" at its widest part and is 3" thick. They make 4 different sizes but can make a special order longer than a stated size but not wider. The quality of my DAM is excellent.

Keeping your backside warm in a hammock in the winter is a factor of getting enough insulation "R" value under you. What ever way you try be it a sleeping pad of some kind, a DAM, or any of the many underquilt ideas. I went with the DAM (R = 9.5) idea as it is much less complicated and may even be faster to setup. It cost $156 with Shipping & H.

sierraDoug
09-26-2004, 00:52
Gardenville,
Do you sleep on your side at all with the DAM, and is that one wide enough to keep yours knees from lying on the cold hammock fabric? Is it too hot to use in mild temps (40 to 50 at night)? Have you slept on it on the ground, and is it comfy there? (sounds like it would be)

Could be easier than an underquilt, and double for "no trees" campsites if needed (I camp in the Sierras).

gardenville
09-26-2004, 02:06
Gardenville,
Do you sleep on your side at all with the DAM, and is that one wide enough to keep yours knees from lying on the cold hammock fabric? Is it too hot to use in mild temps (40 to 50 at night)? Have you slept on it on the ground, and is it comfy there? (sounds like it would be)

Could be easier than an underquilt, and double for "no trees" campsites if needed (I camp in the Sierras).

I use a Speer Hammock and sleep most of the time on my side. I have no trouble doing this with both the DAM or a Blue Target Pad when the weather is warmer. The sides of the Speer sort of roll up around you and hold you in. I have several different sleeping bags and one 40 degree WM Mightlite Down bag that will open flat like a quilt. I tuck this one under me and if I get warm I just poke one of my legs out a little. One of the reasons I got the DAM
(the Stephenson's DAM has an "R" value of 9.5) was to use it on the ground or Shelter if the weather was real bad/cold and I decided I needed to be under a roof or in a tent.

The Poly Tube Air Mattress I made can have the Down baffles all put in or every other one if the weather is warmer. You can also just leave the Down baffles out if it is to warm (it still blows up with or without the Down baffles). This gives me the comfort of the Air Mattress and a way to adjust for changing weather conditions. For me my home-made (DAM) has much greater utility and warmth for less weight than I would ever have with an underquilt type system. No matter what system a person might use with their Hammock it is still all about "R" value and without enough insulation under you and around you, you are not going to be warm. I can stay nice and warm in my hammock with two sleeping pads and a 20 degree sleeping bag down to 29 degrees. Last years low here in my backyard.

I expect my Air Mattress system to evolve into something like a Poly Tube Sleeping Bag/Bivy/Hammock. Using Down baffles in both the top and botton. Made so you can put the Down baffles in or take some out as necessary for most any weather you might have. This sleeping bag thing would go into the Hammock or it just might become the Hammock. Since the Poly Tubes are closed plastic tubes the Down should stay much dryer than in a fabric bag of some sort. This all has to be tested under lots of different cold weather conditions and I hope to do that sometime after the first of the new year. I hope to spend a few weeks up in Maine in early 2005 and see how all my toys work in lots of snow and low temp.

MedicineMan
09-26-2004, 22:01
if your using an ultralight internal you may carry a thin piece of closed cell foam that gives your pack some shape/rigidity......this same thin piece of foam can do double duty under you in thehammock,,,,being closed cell even a thin piece (I use 1/4 inch in the mithril) can give an appreciable amt of insulation.....the piece I used went from shoulders to the top of the HH entrance slit.
I thought I would lose the need for the 1/4 foam when I went to the Luxurylite but found it is nice to pad the canister with so it doesnt slowly rubb the pack through, so it is still with me.
It could also be doubled and re-doubled and be used as a nice sam splint, a sit pad, etc.
The weight of this piece of foam is just under 3 oz. and George Cole of KISKIL shipped it to me to use with the Mithril....thin stuff but very useful.

MedicineMan
09-26-2004, 22:05
these are my problems with the DAM, or why i didnt buy one:
1. not wide enough to prevent cold-should-wrap in the HH
2. uses your own breath to inflate, repeated use will saturate the down with
moisture=weight and loss of effectiveness

I think another company, maybe Exped makes one similar but uses Primaloft-negating the moisture build up,,,,,but still not wide enough for my tastes in HH usage.

Then again it may be the insulated pad by Big Agnes, who many hammock users wrote asking them to market one wide enough for us...even suggested they market one for a big dog, it would be wide enough for us and only has to be long enough to reach shoulders to top of entrance slit....Big Agnes like all big co.'s never responded.

gardenville
09-26-2004, 22:41
these are my problems with the DAM, or why i didnt buy one:
1. not wide enough to prevent cold-should-wrap in the HH
2. uses your own breath to inflate, repeated use will saturate the down with
moisture=weight and loss of effectiveness

I think another company, maybe Exped makes one similar but uses Primaloft-negating the moisture build up,,,,,but still not wide enough for my tastes in HH usage.

Then again it may be the insulated pad by Big Agnes, who many hammock users wrote asking them to market one wide enough for us...even suggested they market one for a big dog, it would be wide enough for us and only has to be long enough to reach shoulders to top of entrance slit....Big Agnes like all big co.'s never responded.

The width of the Stephenson's DAM can be up to 28" wide. My Home-Made DAM can be made as wide as anyone would want it and also as long as they want it. The Stephenson's DAM has a bag-type air pump that will inflate the DAM without having to blow it up by mouth. My DAM can be blown up with a small pump or by mouth. The Down baffles in my Air Mattress come out if you want to dry them or just remove a few if it is to warm with them all in. I have never been next to a HH but don't see why it would be much harder to make something for it.

My Air Mattress design is a great "Do-it-yourself" project for someone that can sew a little.

Youngblood
09-27-2004, 09:21
...I have never been next to a HH but don't see why it would be much harder to make something for it. ...

Bill,

I think design differences in the Speer and Hennessy hammocks could effect the usefullness of different insulation schemes. The Stephenson DAM, with its 3 to 4 inches of thickness takes up a lot of volume. With the Speer, it will slightly effect stability since it raises you up, but the comfort should be outstanding and it shouldn't be much of a problem getting in/out of the hammock. With the Speer one can deal with the bug netting if the raised height and extra volume cause a problem. With a Hennessy, you may have a problem inflating it inside the hammock, getting in/out of the hammock with the DAM in place or even feeling like you have enought girth with the hammock and netting when you are laying on top of the DAM.

Youngblood

gardenville
09-27-2004, 10:20
Bill,

I think design differences in the Speer and Hennessy hammocks could effect the usefullness of different insulation schemes. The Stephenson DAM, with its 3 to 4 inches of thickness takes up a lot of volume. With the Speer, it will slightly effect stability since it raises you up, but the comfort should be outstanding and it shouldn't be much of a problem getting in/out of the hammock. With the Speer one can deal with the bug netting if the raised height and extra volume cause a problem. With a Hennessy, you may have a problem inflating it inside the hammock, getting in/out of the hammock with the DAM in place or even feeling like you have enought girth with the hammock and netting when you are laying on top of the DAM.

Youngblood
Hi Youngblood, I will post some pictures of me in my Speer "Silk" Hammock laying on the Stephenson's DAM and on my Home Made Air Mattress in my Photo Gallery. My Speer Hammock has a lot of what I would call wrap over and even on the DAM you can't even see me in it. You really lay in the Speer. It is about like being below the "water-line" on a boat. The comfort is as you suggest "outstanding". My Home-made Poly Tube Air-Mattress is the same "outstanding". Someday I hope to get a good look at a HH and see just how they work. I love the simplicity of the Speer design and you can't beat the light weight and extra comfort of using silk.

peter_pan
09-27-2004, 15:49
alternative to the various pad answers is the under quilt. www.jacksrbetter.com has light model that is compatable with the HH opening. Both elements of the three season set can be doubled up as under quilts in 10-35 degree weather and used with your current bag as a top quilt. Much more comfortable than pads.

MedicineMan
09-27-2004, 21:49
I thought you were going to use Stephenson's DAM under the HH...I just hate any pad in the HH, it negates the inherent comfort of hammocking at least to me.

Connie
09-27-2004, 22:28
I have the biggest Camp K9 Dog Bed http://www.campk9usa.com/products/ I purchased for my Akita, that he rejected.

I tried this sleeping pad in the van. I would say: two deep is required.

The interior fluffy poly does not go thru even a front loader washing machine, well. It shredded. It is strictly "hand wash" stuff.

I don't think this bed would be workable in a HH.

I have been reasonably happy sleeping on snow, with a 0 F rated sleeping bag, on a full length closed cell foam pad. Of course, I was in a snowcave, with breathing holes punched thru the "ceiling" so I had no wind. The entire setup was pretty cozy.

Youngblood
09-27-2004, 22:37
I thought you were going to use Stephenson's DAM under the HH...I just hate any pad in the HH, it negates the inherent comfort of hammocking at least to me.

MM,

You mean you don't have one of those? How can that be... I don't understand! :)

Youngblood

sierraDoug
09-28-2004, 13:02
Gardenville,
How long does it take you to pump up your Stephenson DAM, and is it a hassle? You posted ten minutes somewhere... sounds like a pain, is it? Also, your photos show it to be rectangular, where on their website catalog the sketch is tapered. Is rectangular better for a hammock?

With your home made poly DAM, how do you remove the down nets from a tube if the poly tube is sealed at one end and 80% sealed at the other end? Maybe I missed something. Anyway, keep up the good work. You seem to be quite the inventor type.

(btw, I bought a HH Backpacker from REI here in Berkeley to try out and will finally get to sleep a night in it 9/29 in a friend's yard. I have no yard and the local regional parks are booked or have no good trees!)

gardenville
09-28-2004, 14:07
Gardenville,
How long does it take you to pump up your Stephenson DAM, and is it a hassle? You posted ten minutes somewhere... sounds like a pain, is it? Also, your photos show it to be rectangular, where on their website catalog the sketch is tapered. Is rectangular better for a hammock?

With your home made poly DAM, how do you remove the down nets from a tube if the poly tube is sealed at one end and 80% sealed at the other end? Maybe I missed something. Anyway, keep up the good work. You seem to be quite the inventor type.

(btw, I bought a HH Backpacker from REI here in Berkeley to try out and will finally get to sleep a night in it 9/29 in a friend's yard. I have no yard and the local regional parks are booked or have no good trees!)

Hi Doug, I just heard CA has had a Earthquake of 5.8? It seems to be south of you. Did you feel anything?

The Stephenson's Warmlite DAM uses its stuff sack to blow up the DAM. It is very easy to do if you READ the instructions well. I think a few minutes is a better time. It takes 12 to 14 bags of air to fill the DAM. The size of the Warmlite DAM has its wide point about the shoulder area (28" wide). The top end is 10" wide and is 12" above the wide point. The bottom end is 14" wide and it is 62" up to the wide point. I think the taper works well in the Hammock. The Hammock forms a natural taper as you lay in one. I will see if I have a picture of the DAM laying flat or I will take one.

The Poly Tube Air Mattress that is made to "also" be a DAM only has one end heat sealed closed. The other end is left open and to blow it up you just gather the Poly Tube and sort of close the end with a finger left in the end. This gives you a hole you can use with a small balloon pump to blow up the tubing or blow it up by mouth. Once you have enought air in the tube you roll close the Poly Tube and use a clamp of some type to close that end.

There is a good message thread (80 Replies) at
http:www.backpacking.net/makegear.html Look on the left for "RESOURCES" Look for "Making Gear! - a Discussion Forum" The message thread is located in the "Lite Gear Talk Forums" under Subject: Hyper-Light Air- Mattress - Photo's Added. There are about 20 photo's and lots of information about this idea. I have pictures that show how the Warmlite DAM is blown up.

sierraDoug
09-28-2004, 20:29
I didn't hear about the earthquake (don't listen to/read the news much right now). Didn't feel a thing here in Berkeley.

Thanks for the info on the Stephenson DAM. I'm intrigued, though they are pricey. And heavy-ish. I'll stay tuned to your better mousetrap.

Also, thanks for directing me to the Lite Gear forum at backpacking.net. Good stuff. I'm not retired (like you), but right now I'm reading a lot about light weight gear... soaking it all up. Gotta work out if I like a hammock before figuring out tarp and sleeping bag ideas. And good insulation (or padding if on the ground) are a key part of the equation.

Off topic, do you like your external frame pack you made? I'm intrigued with the Luxurylite and might explore making something like it some day.

gardenville
09-28-2004, 22:24
I didn't hear about the earthquake (don't listen to/read the news much right now). Didn't feel a thing here in Berkeley.

Thanks for the info on the Stephenson DAM. I'm intrigued, though they are pricey. And heavy-ish. I'll stay tuned to your better mousetrap.

Also, thanks for directing me to the Lite Gear forum at backpacking.net. Good stuff. I'm not retired (like you), but right now I'm reading a lot about light weight gear... soaking it all up. Gotta work out if I like a hammock before figuring out tarp and sleeping bag ideas. And good insulation (or padding if on the ground) are a key part of the equation.

Off topic, do you like your external frame pack you made? I'm intrigued with the Luxurylite and might explore making something like it some day.

My Stephenson's DAM cost $156 which includes S&H. I think it weighs 28oz counting the stuffsack/air pump (2.8oz) combo. I will check the weight and change this if it is wrong.

There are a lot of good "how-to's" hiding in the Hammockcamping archives and links list.

I looked at the Luxurylite but didn't like it. At that time it also cost way to much. Today I think it is made a little different and doesn't cost as much. It is well made and works well for many, it just wasn't what I was looking for. As far as I am concerned my external pack frame is the best thing since sliced bread. It can handle any of the Army ALICE packs and I have used it with one that had about 40 pounds in it. It is the same size as the Army ruck frame (30oz) just a whole lot lighter (6.6oz). I have modified the frame and waist belt somewhat to reduce the "touch points" between my back and waist to less than 10 square inches. I now have what is like a big window between my back and the pack bag. A frame like this one would make a good "do-it-yourself" project and I think easy for anyone with a little skill.

sierraDoug
09-29-2004, 02:19
Gardenville,
Is there a thread where you talk about your external frame and pack? I couldn't find one.

So, why would you want to be able to carry an ALICE pack, aren't they heavy? Also, what didn't you like about the Luxurylite (and did you actually get to see/try one)? Does yours work in a similar way where the thing only touches you at the hip belt and the rest of the frame tilts away from your back a little ways (or do you have weight on the shoulder straps)? And how do you stand any weight on yours without padding on the belt!?

Thanks for the info.

gardenville
09-29-2004, 03:41
Gardenville,
Is there a thread where you talk about your external frame and pack? I couldn't find one.

So, why would you want to be able to carry an ALICE pack, aren't they heavy? Also, what didn't you like about the Luxurylite (and did you actually get to see/try one)? Does yours work in a similar way where the thing only touches you at the hip belt and the rest of the frame tilts away from your back a little ways (or do you have weight on the shoulder straps)? And how do you stand any weight on yours without padding on the belt!?

Thanks for the info.

There is a thread at the backpacking.net site. Look in the sub group called "Make Your Own Gear" [Forum] and go to page 4. Look for the Subject: Titanium/Aluninum 6.6oz External Pack Frame & Photos. Leave a reply and the thread will go back to page 1. I also have a series of 70 pictures in a Album at the MakeGear yahoo group.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MakeGear

Look in the photo albums. The first 10 albums are things I have made. The Pack Frame albums are called "A PackF..." this is the first frame I made, and "A.Titan..." this is where the series of 70 construction pictures are located.

I used the ALICE pack bag to test the strength of the frame. I didn't have a bag made for it yet.

I don't want to say anything that may be taken as bad mouthing the Luxurylite system. It just wasn't what I was looking for. I wanted one bag and I wanted the bottom of the frame to push out from my waist. That frame didn't seem to fit my needs. I also wanted side mesh and back mesh pockets. At the time I first looked at that system it was listed at around $600+. My weight goal for something like an AT Thru-Hike was also only 12 to 17 pounds and that pack with bags was to heavy. My frame/straps and pack bag as it is now, weighs about 18oz and the final version should be less than 16oz. The way my frame is made it pushs away from my waist area about 3-1/2" and away from my shoulders about 1-1/2". The bottom part of my frame and the hip belt are made with some Poly material that keeps the pack bag away from my back. The shoulder area of the frame holds the top of the frame in a simular way to also push away from my body. With no more than say 20 pounds max the set-up I now use is fine. The hip belt would support a much heavier load but I have another hip belt that is padded a little if I need to carry a lot of weight in my pack. I don't intend to do that.

Realize that my gear set for a AT Thru-Hike is very very light. The beauty of making your own gear.

gardenville
09-29-2004, 10:51
I have added some pictures of the Warmlite Down Air Mattress to my photo Gallery.

Youngblood
09-29-2004, 11:27
I have added some pictures of the Warmlite Down Air Mattress to my photo Gallery.

Really nice photo's Bill. The stuff sack is much larger than what is needed for the DAM by itself. If you include a photo that shows the size of the DAM when it is deflated and rolled up, it might not scare people about how much pack space the DAM requires.

Dave

gardenville
09-29-2004, 15:13
Really nice photo's Bill. The stuff sack is much larger than what is needed for the DAM by itself. If you include a photo that shows the size of the DAM when it is deflated and rolled up, it might not scare people about how much pack space the DAM requires.

Dave
Hi Dave, Thanks for the comment about the photo's. Most camera's today make it hard to take a bad picture. The nice thing about a digital camera is you see what you shot right away and if it is bad you just dump it and take more.

I have added some more pictures of my Stephenson's Warmlite DAM as per your suggestion. There are pictures of the DAM rolled up, and a few pictures of it folded up. The rolled size is 13"x6" but I would guess most folks would roll it to fit the space they have. If a person had one of the "pad" supported type packs I think you could leave enough air in the DAM for that to still work. The weight of my DAM is 24oz. Stephenson's list the weight of my size DAM as 23oz. The weight of the stuff sack/air pump is 2.7oz. My Warmlite DAM's has an "R" rating of 9.5.

The weight of the DAM is less than a new ProLite 4 regular size at 1.5" thick (26oz as advertised). The Warmlite DAM is also thicker at 3" or so. I don't have the "R" rating for the Prolite 4 where I can find it but I think it is 4 something.

Youngblood
09-29-2004, 15:31
Bill,

I just happened to have looked that up a couple of days ago. The 1" ProLite 3 has an R-value of 2.3 and the 1.5" ProLite 4 has an R-value of 3.2.

The regular size ProLite 4 (20"x72") is 24 oz with a rolled size of 11"x4.8".
The large size ProLite 4 (25"x77") is 33 oz with a rolled size of 13"x5.1".

I asked a Therm-a-rest customer service representative a few questions about R-value a year or so ago and was told that they evenly weighted the fully inflated pads with a flat plate or table when they tested for R-value. I take that to mean that when you lay on it, your points of maximum compression will not effectively have an R-value as specified and this R-value degradation will be worse in a hammock environment because so much of your weight in at your arse. I think thinner inflated pads would degrade more also because the percentage of loft left after compression would be less.

Dave

gardenville
09-29-2004, 16:13
Bill,

I just happened to have looked that up a couple of days ago. The 1" ProLite 3 has an R-value of 2.3 and the 1.5" ProLite 4 has an R-value of 3.2.

The regular size ProLite 4 (20"x72") is 24 oz with a rolled size of 11"x4.8".
The large size ProLite 4 (25"x77") is 33 oz with a rolled size of 13"x5.1".

I asked a Therm-a-rest customer service representative a few questions about R-value a year or so ago and was told that they evenly weighted the fully inflated pads with a flat plate or table when they tested for R-value. I take that to mean that when you lay on it, your points of maximum compression will not effectively have an R-value as specified and this R-value degradation will be worse in a hammock environment because so much of your weight in at your arse. I think thinner inflated pads would degrade more also because the percentage of loft left after compression would be less.

Dave

My information came from Backcountry Gear.com but my printout is dated 20 Dec, 2003. This may have been a pre-sales figure and the final run may have been lower. What ever, it seems to be the same as my DAM. My full size "home-made" Poly Tube (air only) Air Mattress only weighs 7oz and is 78"x26"x3". The final version of my home-made DAM with 6oz of Down should weigh 14oz or so.

I would like to see an "independent" site test for the "R" value of all the popular pads on the market. I am sure the way other companies do "R" value isn't all the same or under the same conditions.

Thermarest changed the stuff inside their new line of self-inflating pads and that may be why. I have two older Thermarest self-inflating pads and really liked them. The DAM as it seems almost the same weight and about twice as thick lets me do with one pad/air mattress what I used to have to have 2 Thermarest for (25 to 35 degrees/cold weather Hammock use).

jlb2012
09-29-2004, 19:25
I thought I would add my notes about using a DAM in a hammock -

The DAM I use is the Exped 72 by 20 inch - see link (http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Sleep%20Gear/Pads%20and%20Air%20Mattresses/EXPED%20Down%20Air%20Mattress/Jack%20Corrigan/Field%20Report/) for a test report and the numbers. The hammocks I have used the DAM with are an older Hennessy Safari Deluxe 3.4 and a newer HH Explorer Deluxe A-sym.

notes:

1. Using the DAM in the A-sym was much better than in the older Safari Deluxe for a couple reasons - in the A-sym the DAM is angled enough so that one can sit off the pad for getting into and out of the HH through the bottom entrance the HH uses; in the SD I had to "fold" the DAM with my feet in order to get out and it was a PIA to fold when I was laying on it.

2. the DAM does not shift around in the hammock - where I put it is where it stayed - sort of an advantage I guess but it did mean that if I position it wrong I would have to get out in order to change the DAM's position.

3. it seems a little odd when I first get into the hammock - the DAM is practically on edge next to me - I put my feet up on the DAM and then lift my butt up onto the DAM and the hammock repositions itself and the DAM is right under me - just right.

4. It takes me maybe 10 minutes to inflate the DAM using Exped's stuff sack/pump - generally 15 -20 or so sacks of air are needed. I fill it up while the DAM is in the hammock - I sort of stand in the hammock opening and use one hand to hold the sack on the valve of the DAM and the other hand manipulates the sack - open sack to get the air, roll the top of the sack, then push the air into the DAM.

5. with the DAM fully inflated the amount of space in the hammock is noticeably reduced but not to the point of being uncomfortable - note however I use the larger HHs being both tall and ... well ... hog sized :)

6. in the morning I will generally notice some small reduction in size - probably a very slow leak through one of the two valves - this has however never been significant to me - still plenty of air left in the DAM in the morning to keep me warm.

7. to keep my shoulders warm I use a heavy weight polypro long john top and bottom - one for each side. The hood of the sleeping bag is also used for one of the shoulders - I use the bag as a quilt so the hood is sort of off to one side anyways.

sierraDoug
09-29-2004, 20:26
Sounds like you just barely get away with a 20" wide (Exped) DAM sleeping on your back. I usually sleep on my side. Do you sleep on your side, and do you think that would need a wider DAM? There're knees, hands and butt hanging off the 20" mat, I bet.

I'm looking forward to finally sleeping a night in my new HH Backpacker hammock tonight to try it out. For now I'll be trying my old 3/4 Thermarest w/ a Ridgerest under my legs. It's not that cold here in Berkeley, CA, though. If I like the hammock, all my reading here will be worth something!

sierraDoug
09-29-2004, 20:28
You've mentioned preparing to hike the AT w/ all your fabulously hyperlight homemade gear. Reading your posts I wondered if something postponed your hike this summer. Hope you get a chance to get out there soon.

Youngblood
09-29-2004, 20:38
HOI,

Thanks for the info. Do you have any thoughts about the Exped DAM versus the Stephenson's DAM for use in hammocks in regards to their sizing? And, do you think the DAM adds or subtracts to the comfort of your hammocks?

Youngblood

gardenville
09-29-2004, 22:01
You've mentioned preparing to hike the AT w/ all your fabulously hyperlight homemade gear. Reading your posts I wondered if something postponed your hike this summer. Hope you get a chance to get out there soon.

I expect this will be more answer than you were looking for, however:

The AT for 2004 was put on hold for a year when an old medical problem came back. Over the last 7 years I have had a series of small tumors (cancer) in my bladder. 3 were found in early spring but were not removed till August. This was the sixth surgery for bladder tumors. I am on a very pro-active program of exam's and then a treatment program that goes for 6 weeks after the surgery and then another exam every 6 months and a shorter period of treatment. I am into week 3 of 6 in the current bladder treatment program. They have all been found in the early stage and the removal of them is on the minor side as far as cancer goes (I would say that I have been very lucky). I also had one BAD one removed from the right side of my tongue on 10 Oct 1995. I have NEVER used tobacco products and this kind of cancer is found in a lot of smokers. Anyway I have another tumor on the left side of my throat below my ear which is about a week or 2 old. It is also cancer and next Wed. all the test will be complete on that one and surgery to remove it should happen within a few weeks to a month.

The recovery period for the bladder tumors is a few days to a week and the first throat surgery was a few weeks till I was back to running a few miles each day. I try and do my part by not sitting around feeling sorry for myself and staying in good shape and I let the Doctors do there part. It has worked out well in the past and I have the hope it will work out for this one.

My current thought is to start the AT at Springer around the first of April 2005 going north. If everything works out OK for the throat surgery I should have a window of 5 or 6 months in my treatment program where I can go hike. That looks now like it will be between April and Oct 2005. If all goes well I will just mosey along with the pack till Trail Days and then I might go for some longer days if my body feels like it. I plan to take my Van and keep it within a couple of hundred miles of me as I hike north in case I have a problem. I am trying to decide what hiker friendly places offer shuttle service and parking for a few weeks at a time as I am going north.

My "home-made" gear is sure to play a big role in having a happy hike.

jlb2012
09-29-2004, 22:23
sierraDoug - mostly I sleep on my back - I got used to the width with prior pads I have used so its no big deal to me - the shoulders are the only issue and I find just stuffing some extra clothing around them is good enough when used with the usual layers that I sleep with - typically I sleep in colder times with a heavy fleece thing over capeline base layer - exceptionally colder times will see me adding a mid layer and possibly also sleeping in my shell depending on how far down the temp is going. With regard to side sleeping needing a wider pad - probably true but since I rarely side sleep in the hammock the 20 inch pad is good enough for me.

Youngblood - no particular thoughts about Stephenson's DAM vs Exped's DAM - both companies put out approximately the same assortment of sizes, what reviews I read at the time (about a year ago) that I bought the DAM were fairly close and the deciding factor was price - I found a reasonably good deal on the Exped so that was the way I went. As for comfort - using a DAM is great in the colder months - no more nights with cold spots on back, butt, and heels. Note however that I have never used an underquilt - who knows I might like that better - someday I may try one in the cold but for now its the DAM for me when its cold. The other part is that if I ever have to sleep down on the ground (ex no trees or sleeping in a shelter) the DAM works just fine there too - but if it is at all possible I will stick with my hammock - hammocks are the best sleep I have ever had in the backcountry.

gardenville
09-29-2004, 22:35
HOI,

Thanks for the info. Do you have any thoughts about the Exped DAM versus the Stephenson's DAM for use in hammocks in regards to their sizing? And, do you think the DAM adds or subtracts to the comfort of your hammocks?

Youngblood
My only experience with a DAM is the Stephenson's Warmlite. Adds to the comfort. For me the Air Mattress is much more comfortable than any of the foam type pads to include the Thermarest pads in my Speer Hammock. The air mattress contour's itself to the shape of the hammock in a more seamless way than the other pads do. That goes also for my "home-made" air mattress.

I rejected the Exped DAM for some reason that I don't remember anymore. I read something about it that turned me to the Stephenson's DAM. The Stephenson's DAM is made really well and I have no plans to get rid of it.

Youngblood
09-30-2004, 10:34
...Youngblood - no particular thoughts about Stephenson's DAM vs Exped's DAM - both companies put out approximately the same assortment of sizes, what reviews I read at the time (about a year ago) that I bought the DAM were fairly close and the deciding factor was price - I found a reasonably good deal on the Exped so that was the way I went. As for comfort - using a DAM is great in the colder months - no more nights with cold spots on back, butt, and heels. Note however that I have never used an underquilt - who knows I might like that better - someday I may try one in the cold but for now its the DAM for me when its cold. The other part is that if I ever have to sleep down on the ground (ex no trees or sleeping in a shelter) the DAM works just fine there too - but if it is at all possible I will stick with my hammock - hammocks are the best sleep I have ever had in the backcountry.

HOI, that's great that you have something that works well and are happy with... don't change a thing!

I noticed that the Stephenson DAMs were mummy shaped and maybe a tad lighter than the comparable sized rectangular Exped DAMs. And for comparable surface areas, the Stephenson DAMs where a little wider in the shoulder area but narrower at the head and foot. Exped now offers a thinner/lighter DAM and even a 3/4 length one, but I think in cold weather one is better off with a full length DAM if the DAM is what you are depending on for warmth- this gives air leaks in your insulation scheme less chances to occur.

It is nice to have a lot of choices, but for those aways on the hunt for the best available solution you can get caught up more in 'looking' than in 'using' (although I have to admit that sometimes the 'looking' can be a lot of fun). So again, it's great that you have something that works well and are happy with... hope everyone else gets to that enlightened state too. I probably wouldn't admit all the things that I have in my gear closet that I have bought to try out but have never taken out in the woods.

Youngblood

sierraDoug
09-30-2004, 20:20
I'm really sorry to hear you have had such serious and numerous health problems. You seem to have a good attitude about it though. May this be the last of them, and may your hiking plans for 2005 go forward as planned.

You've got all fall and winter to work on your impressive collection of original gear. Have fun with it.

gardenville
09-30-2004, 21:22
I'm really sorry to hear you have had such serious and numerous health problems. You seem to have a good attitude about it though. May this be the last of them, and may your hiking plans for 2005 go forward as planned.

You've got all fall and winter to work on your impressive collection of original gear. Have fun with it.

sierra Doug: Thanks for your concern. I have faith in my Doctors. The trick with all this is early detection. If you can't stop it then you have to find it as soon as possible. So you have bad luck but good luck at the same time. Attitude about all this is very important. When you find yourself in a situation like this you have to just face it and get rid of it. I have to much I want to do before I roll over and play dead. So much for all this but - Thanks.

I want to do some of the AT in the winter. Finding a way to make my own gear "very light" is my quest. By making my own gear I can make it out of much lighter material and designs that may seem strange to some. I am not going to make gear that is on the edge of being safe or smaller such as all the 1/2 size sleeping pads to save a few ounces. There is a lot of very light material that can be used and I am on a constant searh for it. None of this is rocket science, just a lot of trial and error testing. It is a lot of fun trying to figure out how to make one piece of gear do several different jobs.

I have just finished a tripod. I made the top part so I can connect my two trekking poles and the second tube off one pole for the third tripod leg. I was able to buy a small "head" part for a tripod and made the top plate for the legs to connect to. I even have a center tube that gives you 10 more inches of adjustable height if you need it. I am going to make the next one out of Titanium to save a few more ounces.