View Full Version : Thoughts on an 11 yr old
GooseMan
02-05-2010, 10:56
I did my first hike in November from Springer to Dick's Creek Gap in 5 nights. Had a blast. I am now planning my next section. Most likely from Dick's Creek Gap to NOC in late May or early June. Probably 5 or 6 nights again. My very mature and in good shape 11 year old son wants to come along. He has never backpacked but has done short hikes (3-5 miles) on vacations. Last summer he and I climbed Cadillac Mt. on Acadia NP. He had no problems with that but it was without a pack. I think we will do some overnights here in FL that are about 6-8 miles in, camp, then out and home. I think he can handle about 15-20 lbs in a pack (his school backpack with books weighs that much).
My question is do you think DCG to NOC is too much for an 11 year old? Looking at the maps, the only bail out place seems to be US64 near Franklin. Another option is to have him dropped off at US64 and go from there to NOC.
Thoughts and comments appreciated.
G
A 10 year old thruhiked the entire trail a few years ago. Only you will know if your son is up to teh task.
I started backpacking with my kids when they were four and we did at least one week per year through high school. Those were really great times and give you both a chance to learn.
My one bit of advice is to get him a really well fitted pack and keep the weight light at first. That means that you will have the heavy pack, which keeps the pace slower.
Also make sure he has good running shoes or lightweight boots.
I have not hiked that section, but on a map it does not look too hard for an active 11 year old. My kids did some pretty tough hikes in the Rockies at that age. My packs were huge!
You are correct to try some short ones first. Great idea and I am sure that you will both enjoy your trips. You will never regret spending times with your kids.
JustaTouron
02-05-2010, 11:23
For his first hike, I would pick a hike that had lots of bailouts. Don't tell him there are bailouts, let him think he needs to complete it. But until you know he is up for an extended hike (and you won't know that until he does one) have a safety net. That's what I did on my kids first hikes, until I understood their abilities and limits.
I've backpacked and canoed (half and half) Isle Royale for 10 days with a friend and his six year old son. The young man did marvellously. No complaining, did not even slow us down significantly.
The only age-related incident was on the second from last day. The young guy caught a cold, and was kinda miserable, but not complaining. Late in the day, he started dragging a bit. His dad went to the back with him to talk. Soon we heard a wavering, sobbing "I miss Mommy". A an hour or so later, he was back to his normal, and enjoying the hike and camp. The incident was actually very cute, we felt kinda sorry for the little guy. He did not detract from our enjoyment or planned trip one bit, added to it.
You will have to judge your son and what he is ready to handle, but if you think he's ready, go for it. He may be a great partner. I would just keep the mileage down, and keep an eye on how he's doing. Won't bode well for future hikes if you drive him beyond what he's enjoying.
Also keep in mind that what you think of as an awesome view or an interesting trail feature he might not even notice or care when you point it out to him. But don't even think about hiking on past that creek if a salamander has been spotted in it.
RollingStone
02-05-2010, 11:44
My daughter used to drag and complain on "hikes". But when I strapped a pack on her back at age 11 she became a different person and took charge. She has ever since. Her first LD trip was at 11, (100 mile wilderness in Maine) her first LD trip where she had to carry ALL of her own stuff, help plan the route, read the map, etc was at 13 on the LT in VT. She'll be 17 next March 1st when we set out to thru the AT.
I think with kids, it's just like adults. It's whatever motivates them. When you are younger though, your experiences and motivation depends on the adults around you. As long as you are making it fun for him, making it an adventure, and YOU are keeping a good positive attitude, I'll guarantee he'll love every minute of it, with every mile of trail he puts under his feet.
Take the time to teach him skills, teach him about the wildlife, about the plantlife, teach LNT skills. Make it so that he learns something every single time he goes out. Best part of my life were these types of lessons with my daughter when she was younger. I taught her basic campfire skills at 12. For 5 days of trail, along the trail we would discuss different aspects of how she was going to try building a fire that night when we reached the shelter. This alone kept her motivated and moving all day long because she couldn't wait to get into the shelter and "build" the fire :)
Now I have to teach her how to keep a checkbook, blah blah.. it's no fun anymore! :)
Have a great time with your son on the trail!
Spirit Walker
02-05-2010, 12:17
Your son is old enough to get out and enjoy a long trip with you. As others have said, several kids have thruhiked who were even younger. Biggest issue is to keep his pack weight light. He has growing bones - too much weight can be a real problem, from what I've read. Also, try to make sure that there is time to play along the way. Not just an all day hike from point a to point b, but a chance to swim in the stream, climb a tree, etc. If he has fun on the hike, he'll want more.
Something you may want to consider if you're not sure your son is up to a long hike...park your car at the Standing Indian Campground...hike down the Kimsey Creek trail and meet the AT at Deep Gap...from there north on the AT are several trails leading down to the Campground. If your son is doing good and shows no sign of wanting to stop...keep on going over to the NOC. Not quite as long as you were planning but has several "bail-out" options early in the trip. Cheers....enjoy the walk and time with your son.
Like Spiritwalker said....climbing trees, playing in creeks...heck...that what keeps my 51 year old feet coming back too. Hope to see ya on the trail.:D
I did my first hike in November from Springer to Dick's Creek Gap in 5 nights. Had a blast. I am now planning my next section. Most likely from Dick's Creek Gap to NOC in late May or early June. Probably 5 or 6 nights again. My very mature and in good shape 11 year old son wants to come along. He has never backpacked but has done short hikes (3-5 miles) on vacations. Last summer he and I climbed Cadillac Mt. on Acadia NP. He had no problems with that but it was without a pack. I think we will do some overnights here in FL that are about 6-8 miles in, camp, then out and home. I think he can handle about 15-20 lbs in a pack (his school backpack with books weighs that much).
My question is do you think DCG to NOC is too much for an 11 year old? Looking at the maps, the only bail out place seems to be US64 near Franklin. Another option is to have him dropped off at US64 and go from there to NOC.
Thoughts and comments appreciated.
G
My 11-year-old grandson hiked with me from Harpers Ferry through Vermont. Two years earlier at age nine, he had hiked most of Maine with me, though rain and the approach of school kept him from climbing Katahdin. On both walks he carried all of his own gear. Clothing, sleeping bag, snacks, toys, and toiletries -- probably 15 pounds in Maine in 1991, 20 plus in 1993.
My three kids hiked most of the trail in Maine between the ages of eight and 12 on weekend, and week-long backpacks. The youngest climbed Katahdin at age 5, after having backpacked the 3.5 miles into Chimney Pond. He first did the latter at age three years, three months.
This is just a longwinded way of saying that your son won't have any problems. Just let him set the pace. Kids are curious creatures. They like to explore a trail. Play in the water. Watch strange bugs. Just let it happen. Forget making big miles.
Weary
I think human kids are very well evolved and adapted to keeping up with nomadic parents.
I think a good rule of thumb regarding pack weight for children is...
Height in Feet Squared / 2 = Pack Weight in Pounds
e.g. 4 feet = 8 pounds, 4.5 feet = 10 pounds, 5 feet = 12.5 pounds.
If they are particularly sturdy, like an adult their height, then maybe double that.
But if they are overweight, then I would not double that even if they are sturdy.
My daughter is 10, but still only 4'3" and 61 pounds, so 9 pounds is her limit.
She has no difficulty keeping up with my on the Fundy Footpath, 6-8 hours a day.
The tricky part is motivation. That is the other reason I don't weigh her down. It is alot easier for her if I have trouble keeping up with here than the other way around. She leads. I follow. Her morale is much higher that way.
Doooglas
02-05-2010, 15:26
Get the kid the right pack and if necessary, take a factory pack, like a Kelty Redwing and go to an upholstery shop and let them cut it up and fit it
Ox97GaMe
02-05-2010, 18:07
I think a lot of people are missing part of your question.
Can an 11 year old hike that distance. Absolutely. Should it be hiked in 5-6 days. I would say Absolutely NOT. I would recommend only hiking Dicks Creek to Winding Stair or Wallace Gap. Especially if this is his first backpacking trip. Take it easy, keep mileage down, and you stand a better chance that he will enjoy the trip and want to go out with you again. Plan no more than 8 miles per day as a realistic distance. If your son is doing good and wants to do more mileage, then you can make that happen and adjust the trip accordingly.
I agree that you should look at bail out options if you need them. There arent any realistic bail out points between Dicks Creek and Deep Gap or between Standing Indian and Rockfish Gap.
Also, if you have time before your trip, go on a day hike with the pack. See how he does on a 3-5 mile trip.
Jack Tarlin
02-05-2010, 18:18
I think Ox's post makes a lot of sense.
Also, if this is indeed the child's first overnight backpacking trip, you might want to go out for a shorter time, i.e. 2-3 days. That day, if things don't work out right (injuries, weather, boredom, you name it), you're not far from home. 5-6 days for one's first overnight adventure can be a tall order.
When my son was 11 he hiked the West Highland Way (92 miles in a week). Physically it was no problem at all for him. Mentally...well he did not find looking at scenery to be as interesting as us older folks did so he spent his excess energy trying to drive us crazy, talking nonstop, playing nutty games, running up and smacking us with his gloves and then running away... If I could have caught him, I would have killed him. ;-)
Blissful
02-05-2010, 18:54
If its the first time out, I'd make it more about fun then hiking miles etc. Like we took our son for just a 2 mile jaunt in the Whites to Franconia Falls and a rock water slide. He rather liked the fun then the miles. But some kids like the miles instead. Only you know what he likes and if he has the temperament, esp when carrying a backpack.
When my son was 11 he hiked the West Highland Way (92 miles in a week). Physically it was no problem at all for him. Mentally...well he did not find looking at scenery to be as interesting as us older folks did so he spent his excess energy trying to drive us crazy, talking nonstop, playing nutty games, running up and smacking us with his gloves and then running away... If I could have caught him, I would have killed him. ;-)
That's why I've always let my kids and grandkids set the pace -- even when I've had to struggle to keep up. But I did interrupt occasionally to hint at a bit of education and understanding. My goal was a chance to rest. But it seems to seems to have produced a bonus. We are all great friends, and gather for friendly get togethers on birthdays, holidays -- even spur of the moment lobster bakes, when prices drop.
Weary
I don't know your 11 yr old, but I hiked that section in mid December (Dicks Creek Gap to Winding stair gap, hwy 64... near Franklin), in 3 and a half days... I stayed at Plumorchard Gap shelter cuz I got a very late start the first day and it was 34 degrees and raining like *ell, then Standing Indian Mtn shelter the 2nd nite, then tarp camped at Betty Creek the last nite, hiked out to hwy 64 the last day. It's a great section, you also get the nice climb at Albert Mountain.
My first guess is you won't be able to make the same daily mileage with an 11 yr old as you did by yourself from Springer to Dicks Creek Gap. If he can make it all the way to NOC, thats fantastic, but I think you guys could have a great hike just from DCreek Gap to Winding Stair Gap, and it's a good bailout point, Ronnie Haven from Franklin Motel has daily shuttles that pickup at Winding stair gap.
have a great hike!
When my daughter was 8 she hiked 38km of the Fundy Footpath in 2.5 days if that's any help. She didn't carry anything, and she set the pace. 9km first half day, moderate trail. 10km second day, very rugged, many stops for lunch etc. All the way back out on the 3rd day. She has to set the pace though, that's the thing. Since then she has gotten even more stubborn. She now decides if and when and where we go hiking, or cross-country skiing, or whatever. She is 10. At least I am still included. I am blessed.
On a good day I am permitted to make suggestions.
That's why I've always let my kids and grandkids set the pace -- even when I've had to struggle to keep up. But I did interrupt occasionally to hint at a bit of education and understanding. My goal was a chance to rest. But it seems to seems to have produced a bonus. We are all great friends, and gather for friendly get togethers on birthdays, holidays -- even spur of the moment lobster bakes, when prices drop.
Weary
You're right about the bonus. We all still laugh together to remember the crazy stories he made up and the games he played while we were hiking along. One of his games was to jump up on and off of, doing crazy tricks, every rock we passed. (OK, picture doing this while hiking an 18-mile day. Wow.)
A dozen years have gone by since then. Recently his girlfriend posted pictures on Facebook of them hiking in Arkansas over Christmas. Guess what Forrest was doing? Still playing that same funny game, jumping off rocks and doing his style tricks.
GooseMan
02-06-2010, 16:06
Thanks for the replies. I think I will change the plan slightly and set my primary pickup for US64. That is about 40 miles for 5 days. If things are going especially well, we will shoot for NOC at 70 miles. Now we need to set up our practice overnight hike(s) and see how it goes.
Thanks
G
I think you have a really good plan there. Keep it flexible. Have a blast.
Flow with the trail as they say. Kids are part of the trail. ;)
One thing to remember about kids is that if they become hungry or tired they can go rapidly from happy to sulky to meltdown. (It's also true of adults, but they sometimes exert more self-control to keep the meltdown from being so obvious.) It's tempting to press on to meet some sort of goal. ("Let's get to the shelter before we stop for a snack.") It's important to take meltdown-prevention steps (candy is good) before the meltdown starts. Once it's underway the child will refuse food, water, rest, comfort of any sort. Children are often very bad at recognizing their need for food and especially for water. They may have trouble expressing what's really bothering them. (They need to go to the bathroom but are afraid to because there are strangers around, or some such thing.) In a sense, the adult needs to do the thinking for both people, and yet not boss the child around in a way that will cause anger and rebellion. You can't be overly solicitous, nor can you just let them fend entirely for themselves. If you get it right, you develop a wonderful empathy and sensitivity that will stand you in good stead through their teenage years.
StarLyte
02-07-2010, 09:01
I hike with my 11 year old granddaughter.
Shorten your miles per day. Space it out, take a long lunch.
If you put too many miles on the first day, your entire hike will be shot.
Make sure his hiking shoes are ALREADY worn in. First hike I took her on, she hiked 11 miles. It was a beautiful day. But the next day she was a little sore and tired. I thought I knew everything, but I didn't.
Here's my granddaughter's pack:
Salomon Raid Race 300 - 1lb 6 oz (http://www.backcountry.com/store/review/2164/Near-Perfect-Lightweight-Daypack)
KEEP THE PACK LIGHT and weight distributed. Make sure that pack is snug.
Salomon also makes a smaller one if he has a smaller frame. The above pack hip belt can be modified to fit him better, I had to modify hers to fit around middle/hips. This is a very durable pack - don't be fooled. (http://www.trailjournals.com/gear.cfm?trailname=1680)
My granddaughter found many things to do along the trail, like lay on big rocks, spot wildlife, and even though we spaced our miles, we would get to shelters TOO EARLY and that's not good, so take a tent.
Make meals interesting, and have HIM decide/plan on meals too. Throw a little extra protein in there.
There is NO DOUBT I would shorten the days to 2 or 3 as Ox stated.
My granddaughter takes her iPod/radio ONLY to listen to at night, but never once has she needed them because she literally passes out at night :D
The only hard parts I remember of that section were: The start out of Dicks is a fairly long uphill, at least to someone just starting. The climb out of Bly Gap is short but steep. The last 0.9 miles to NOC is one looooooong downhill.
As suggested above, let him set the pace (with a bit of very gentle persuasion) & be willing / prepared to stop when needed. 11+ mpd may be a bit much, YMMV. At 11 I often did those miles every sat & sun (back to back day hikes) so it can be done. Granted I was only carrying about 10 lbs & slept in my own bed each night & had breakfast & dinner at home.
As you suggest, if it is too bad, you can always bail at Winding stair gap. Franklin & Ron Haven are but a few easily hitched miles East. I think you could also get out at Wesser Bald.
Can you plan to be out longer? Say 7 - 8 days? An easier hike may make for a more enjoyable hike for both of you, & a new full time hiking partner for you. Just sayin.
just dad
02-07-2010, 14:24
I have section hiked for that past three years with my son and daughter. They were 7 and 9 years old when we left Springer. I think you are planning on putting way too much weight on your son. You should get his total weight down to 10 pounds or less, which means that you will be carrying a majority of the gear and all the food. We ranged from 9.4 miles to 11.8 miles per day when we hiked that section of trail. Of course, my kids were younger and I was carrying food for three. Putting a backpack on you son will greatly reduce his distance. I don't see the distance being an issue, but your pack weight and per day distances need to be realistic.
I would go no more than 10 miles per day.
mweinstone
02-07-2010, 15:59
i was camping counseller at camp log n twig in dingmans ferry in the poconos for 11,...11 year olds.my handeling of the 11 year old phenomima is to be studyed. i had these kids stealing from their parents for me on tip day. all an 11 year old needs to be assured fun on a hike, is another 11 year old. going with adults aint no fun. thats why they took to me. i aint no damm adult.
Jester2000
02-07-2010, 16:53
Mentally...well he did not find looking at scenery to be as interesting as us older folks did so he spent his excess energy trying to drive us crazy, talking nonstop, playing nutty games, running up and smacking us with his gloves and then running away... If I could have caught him, I would have killed him. ;-)
This sounds suspiciously like me when I'm hiking.
In addition to the mileage recommendations (which I agree with), plan to bring some stuff to keep him occupied in camp. Card game, Mad Libs, what have you.