View Full Version : Cheapest Possible Thru-Hike
highside
02-13-2010, 23:31
I've been wanting to hike the A.T. for the last 10 years. This year looks like the first chance I'll get. The only problem is I'm REALLY short on cash. I have all of my gear, just not much left over. My question is, what is the cheapest anyone has ever heard of someone spending. I have a ride to Springer and a ride back from Maine. I really don't want to miss this chance and maybe have to wait another 10 years until I can try it again. Enough money for food and showers is all I really care about.
buff_jeff
02-13-2010, 23:53
I honestly don't know what the least amount of money someone has thru-hiked on is, but why not just head out and see how far you make it?
Roughin' It
02-13-2010, 23:54
Would you be leaving NOBO or SOBO? and what date?
highside
02-13-2010, 23:56
NOBO Mid-March to Mid-April.
Just do it. Start out frugal. After a few months assess how much you have spent and how much further you have to go then make a decision on whether you should complete a thruhike this year.
highside
02-14-2010, 00:26
About $500 bucks. I still have a few weeks to a month until I leave, so I might be able to find some side work but I don't know how much extra I'll be able to get. I also forgot to mention that I have some friends and family that will send me a few food packages but I don't know how much exactly or how often.
highside
02-14-2010, 00:29
I read one article on here where I guy said he did it for $1100 bucks. He made it sound like that was pushing it.
Spirit Walker
02-14-2010, 00:30
Have you read Weathercarrot's article here on WB about hiking cheaply? He has done it, more than once.
As others have said, if you think that now is your time to hike, then go out and hike as far as you can. You'll be able to figure out whether a super frugal hike works for you or not. In any case - you can go out and have a good hike, however long it lasts. If you do have to stop early, then you'll at least have an idea of whether you like long distance hiking enough to work a while and try again.
On my second thruhike (1992) there was a young man who quit his job on the spur of the moment and headed out to the trail with $100 in his pocket. He knew he wouldn't get far, but he wanted to see how far he could get. With a little help from hikers who enjoyed his company, he made it through the Smokies. The next year he was back, doing a thruhike.
highside
02-14-2010, 00:33
I'll check that out. Thanks.
Roughin' It
02-14-2010, 00:34
I am leaving Mid March, NOBO as well. (13th)
If we ever meet on the trail I would be glad to help you out.
Cool AT Breeze
02-14-2010, 00:34
Not even close. It costs about 1.50 per mile on the cheep side. that's stayin out of town, no pizza and beer workin for stay and such. Not a fun hike.
Have you read Weathercarrot's article here on WB about hiking cheaply? He has done it, more than once.
As others have said, if you think that now is your time to hike, then go out and hike as far as you can. You'll be able to figure out whether a super frugal hike works for you or not. In any case - you can go out and have a good hike, however long it lasts. If you do have to stop early, then you'll at least have an idea of whether you like long distance hiking enough to work a while and try again.
On my second thruhike (1992) there was a young man who quit his job on the spur of the moment and headed out to the trail with $100 in his pocket. He knew he wouldn't get far, but he wanted to see how far he could get. With a little help from hikers who enjoyed his company, he made it through the Smokies. The next year he was back, doing a thruhike.
through the smokies on $100.. even considering the help thats a lot of spirit for one boy to carry
Consider hiking SOBO or working another 4-6 weeks, saving as much as possible and doing a faster hike.
Alternatively, you might attempt 1/2 the A.T. and section the remainder as you are able. Hiking NOBO to Harpers Ferry and continuing northward, picking up where you left off on each previous hike or hiking SOBO to Harpers Ferry are options I'd consider.
I'll let ya know what the least expensive thru hike was when I finish mine....poor folk rock too. Hope to see ya on the trail.;)
SKessler
02-14-2010, 01:54
Not even close. It costs about 1.50 per mile on the cheep side. that's stayin out of town, no pizza and beer workin for stay and such. Not a fun hike.
Did you figure in gear and transportation? I am just thinking this seems a little steep. I can see it costing that much with town stays and treats, but I know from personal experience I can head out for a week or 2 spending less than $5 a day on food. I don't see why it couldn't be done (close to this) for the whole trek.
I'll tell you what you are already expecting to hear. $500 really isn't enough. You could make it at least to Damascus with that much money, though, and you'd have a great time too. If you aren't picky about what you eat you could literally get all of your food from hiker boxes almost the whole way to Damascus. But you don't have to go all the way in one shot. I only made it as far as Waynesboro but I still look back on the four months I spent on the trail as some of the best times of my life.
The year of my thru-hike attempt there was a guy who worked his way up the trail. I first met him just past Neels Gap...his claim was that he had boxed up a bunch of mail drops and had put money in each box to last until the next box, but as soon as he left his girlfriend opened up all the boxes to get to the money, and she wasn't mailing his maildrops. I never believed this story, but that's besides the point.
This guy would stop in every town and ask around until he found some work for a day or two...just enough to get a resupply and put a few extra dollars in his pocket. I also heard of people who were offered jobs planting grapes at wineries or baling hay...they were trying to hitch a ride and somebody just pulled over and offered them a few days work.
This guy also joined the Moose Lodge near Catawba, and after that he'd find a Moose Lodge if there was one near a trail town and go there asking if anybody knew where he could get a couple day's work.
Only problem with doing things this way is that you have a lot of zero days while you are searching for work or actually working, and you may run out of time.
When I got off the trail at Waynesboro, he was still headed north, and that was mid June.
Sumone86
02-14-2010, 02:05
i read so much about how you guys spend so much on the AT and i don't understand. i have hike many a place and did it on nothing. then again i don't see the point in staying in hotels are buying food from restaurants.
Jester2000
02-14-2010, 02:06
Did you figure in gear and transportation? I am just thinking this seems a little steep. I can see it costing that much with town stays and treats, but I know from personal experience I can head out for a week or 2 spending less than $5 a day on food. I don't see why it couldn't be done (close to this) for the whole trek.
Maybe. Of course, when you get done with your two week stint in the woods, I imagine you do things like taking a hot shower in a bathroom, which is the sort of thing you have to pay for if you're not at home. Is that a treat? Probably. But I know that from personal experience that after going 17 days without showering or washing my clothes, the prospect of not doing that for another 17 days, let alone a couple more months, wasn't all that attractive.
On the other hand, to answer the original question, in 2000 Screamer went from Georgia to at least Gorham (that's the last time I saw him) on no money. Then again, he was homeless before he got on the trail. I suppose it's all a matter of what you're willing to put up with -- he was used to having much less than what was available on the trail. Most of us are used to having more.
Jester2000
02-14-2010, 02:07
i read so much about how you guys spend so much on the AT and i don't understand. i have hike many a place and did it on nothing. then again i don't see the point in staying in hotels are buying food from restaurants.
What's the longest time you've spent on trail?
SKessler
02-14-2010, 02:38
Maybe. Of course, when you get done with your two week stint in the woods, I imagine you do things like taking a hot shower in a bathroom, which is the sort of thing you have to pay for if you're not at home. Is that a treat? Probably. But I know that from personal experience that after going 17 days without showering or washing my clothes, the prospect of not doing that for another 17 days, let alone a couple more months, wasn't all that attractive.
My point with that post is not that it should cost $5/day to hike the whole trail, but that it could possibly be done for much cheaper than $1.50/mile.
Running some numbers, if someone spends $1.50/mile, then that is $3262.50 for the whole distance, which seems reasonable...but certainly not cheap. Assuming a moderate pace (we will say 150 days), that leaves a hiker $21.75 to spend per day, which seems like fairly liberal budget. Contrary to some beliefs, I think this WOULD make for a FUN hike!!! :D
If you carry my pack for me I'll buy the beer.
If you carry my pack for me I'll buy the beer.
The guy I hiked with that was hoboing his way up the trail actually used this arrangement more than once. He walked from Partnership shelter down to the store and carried a case of beer back in exchange for some of the beer and a few bucks.
highside
02-14-2010, 03:09
11 days. Most of that was camping though.
fiddlehead
02-14-2010, 06:15
Cheapest possible thru-hike is probably free.
Although there are not many who can do it.
Hiker boxes have lots of oatmeal, rice, couscous, grits, and the like.
You'd have to have some fantastic willpower. (or work your way as some have before)
If you have enough willpower to hike for free, you have enough to go out and make another $500 in the next few weeks. (or more)
How good is your back? When we were kids, we would always see any snowfall as a way to make money.
It can definitely be done for free.
It would just suck.
see: Eustace Conway (ok, calm down, the guy is a legend ;)
Rockhound
02-14-2010, 09:08
i read so much about how you guys spend so much on the AT and i don't understand. i have hike many a place and did it on nothing. then again i don't see the point in staying in hotels are buying food from restaurants.
Um did you do it for 5 or 6 months straight with nothing? If hiking the A.T. would you never, not once, stay in a hostel/hotel, eat out for a meal when passing through a town, resupply along the way, have pieces of gear break, wear out your footwear, camp at any of the sites up north where you are required to pay......with that said, I did hear about one guy who actually wound up making money on his hike, picking up odd jobs along the way, helping other hikers out, eating out of hiker boxes most of the time.... I think this is the exception that proves the rule. If you try to thru-hike the A.T. with less than $2,000 you aint gonna make it.
garlic08
02-14-2010, 09:45
...I did hear about one guy who actually wound up making money on his hike...
My friend is a bachelor retiree with a good pension and a month-to-month living arrangement. When he hits the trail, he stops paying rent, eats cheaper, does nothing but walk, and he comes out ahead financially. Does that count?
It's great to hear these stories of those who have traveled the AT without money. It's amazing what a person willing to travel with a little courage can do. Many of us are a little spoiled.
If I were to offer a $1,000,000 cash prize to everyone who hiked the trail on $500 or less, how many people do you think would do it?
Big Dawg
02-14-2010, 10:07
I've been wanting to hike the A.T. for the last 10 years. This year looks like the first chance I'll get. The only problem is I'm REALLY short on cash. I have all of my gear, just not much left over. My question is, what is the cheapest anyone has ever heard of someone spending. I have a ride to Springer and a ride back from Maine. I really don't want to miss this chance and maybe have to wait another 10 years until I can try it again. Enough money for food and showers is all I really care about.
Don't become a snob like some thru hikers. That way you can take time to quickly chat w/ passing section hikers, weekenders, or road-side picknickers. They usually have/carry too much food & some are willing to share w/ a thru hiker in need, if you play your story right. I've "lightened my food load" multiple times w/ thru hikers who seemed genuine, nice, and in need.
Plasma donation....
Not sure where you live but it is up to $50 per week now. Once per week that is an extra $200 per month.
Just sayin that's all
If I were to offer a $1,000,000 cash prize to everyone who hiked the trail on $500 or less, how many people do you think would do it?
Although I have $3K for my hike, and access to another $2K just in case, I'm attempting to stay as close to $1K. Living simpler is one of my goals during and for after my hike. It's not as tough as some make it out to be. Maybe it's tough for them, but I've lived simple a majority of my life, and this won't be a hard shock for me.
I think thru hiking on $500 would be a bit hard. Especially considering the cost of food along the trail. I won't skimp on "fuel" for my body. That's asking for trouble. I can go without a shower. I can go without a hostel/hotel. I can sleep in my tarp in the rain. I won't skimp on my food. Too important, and necessary.
Guess you get to keep your $1M.
Rockhound
02-14-2010, 11:26
If I were to offer a $1,000,000 cash prize to everyone who hiked the trail on $500 or less, how many people do you think would do it?
Done.Put it in writing and I'll take that bet.
The point is you absolutely CAN thru-hike with 500 dollars. You could easily thru-hike with zero dollars, it would just be significantly harder than doing so with plenty of income.
Having the willpower to keep going and to keep doing everything necessary to continue on when living off that budget is what makes the task seem near impossible. As he noted, if someone was offered a million dollar prize to thru hike with 500 dollars, I guarantee almost anyone on this board could pull it off. Probably.
That said, go get an easy job and make some more money. You'll be glad you did
Spot In The Sky
02-14-2010, 11:35
Im attempting SOBO this year and I figure Ill throw charges on my credit card and just pay the minimum of like $15 per month until I finish and get a job when Im done.
Is there a place I can find the sites that require hikers to pay for camping? I checked also on the forum and didnt see any threads dedicated to permits needed on the trail. Will those cost money too??
Cool AT Breeze
02-14-2010, 11:38
So you are going to clean out every hiker box along the trail and bum food and supplies off friend and stranger. You would be a pain to be around.
Rockhound
02-14-2010, 11:42
generally campsites in the Whites run $8 and the Huts $70+ with reservation (most hikers try to snag the work for stays there.
Spot In The Sky
02-14-2010, 11:49
generally campsites in the Whites run $8 and the Huts $70+ with reservation (most hikers try to snag the work for stays there.
Must you use campsites or can you find another spot? Im sorry, I know I should do my own research on this...buuut people here just know everything!
Jester2000
02-14-2010, 12:03
My point with that post is not that it should cost $5/day to hike the whole trail, but that it could possibly be done for much cheaper than $1.50/mile.
Running some numbers, if someone spends $1.50/mile, then that is $3262.50 for the whole distance, which seems reasonable...but certainly not cheap. Assuming a moderate pace (we will say 150 days), that leaves a hiker $21.75 to spend per day, which seems like fairly liberal budget. Contrary to some beliefs, I think this WOULD make for a FUN hike!!! :D
Agree with you here. I didn't notice who posted the $1.50 number, but I think that's meant to represent what most should expect to spend, minimum. People with less money will obviously be forced to spend less (or go home)(or turn into bums).
The original poster is talking about something like .23 per mile, which would have been difficult 10-15 years ago, let alone now.
Must you use campsites or can you find another spot? Im sorry, I know I should do my own research on this...buuut people here just know everything!
In the Whites you can't camp wherever you want above treeline. Camp below treeline, sure, but sometimes that's a long way down.
wvgrinder
02-14-2010, 12:36
If you carry my pack for me I'll buy the beer.
DEAL! When we leavin'??? :banana
wvgrinder
02-14-2010, 12:43
About every other time you plan on eating at a restaurant, grab a package of hot dogs instead & start chowing. After about 5 or 6, you'll lose the urge.
While I would really like to say, "just go for it", and at one time that's exactly what I would have immediately said because I didn't understand how important proper preperation can be in determining success. This applies to most endeavors in life. Part of the planning and prep that goes into a thru-hike is having enough financial support or, at the very least, understanding how financial needs are going to be accounted for while thru-hiking. Make no mistake about it, resources are needed to complete a thru-hike! I'm in no way saying that folks don't sometimes spontaneously decide to thru-hike with little or no prep and on shoe string budgets and find a way to get it done. Most fail! No where else on a hiking trail in the U.S. is this more apparent than the AT. People get into all sorts of special case scenarios about how they think they can hike. What they actually do is most often very different than what they think.
If you are serious about wanting to thru-hike, and I can see no other way that you would be serious about it unless you truely want to do a thru-hike, that is complete the hike, from Springer to Katahdin, then make sure you understand your needs while on the trail. If you just want to hike for a while and see how far you get and, MAYBE, that will turn into a thru-hike, Fine! Go for it! BUT, if you are going to call yourself a thru-hiker, especially from the start of your hike, with the preconceived intention of actually doing a thru-hike, than understand what that entails and plan for your success.
I've said it before and I will say it again, I've heard a lot of prospective thru-hikers say they were quitting their hikes because they lacked money. I have yet to hear ANY prospective thru-hiker say they were quitting their hike because they had too much money.
Understand this! I'm not saying you will fail. I'm not saying you can't do it. I'm not saying you can't thru-hike on a very limited budget. I have personally witnesssed too many success stories of people that have found ways to complete their thru-hikes. I did this on the AT. DO realize it takes a mindset and lifestyle changes that most find unacceptable, inconvenient, repulsive, painful, harsh, depressing, boring, too much change, etc etc etc. They quit!
While on my AT thru-hike, I met a successful although naive and ill prepared thru-hiking couple who were homeless. They hit Springer with less than $1000(if I recall correctly it was something in the neighborhood of $700-$800) for the two of them. They lacked gear(adequate shoes, packs, etc etc etc), food, and money. I witnessed the man hiking in shoes with holes in their soles. He hiked in wet feet for awhile until he found other used hiking shoes, two sizes too big, in a hiker box. I witnesssed him almost fall down a flight of stone steps on the AT because they didn't fit right. They ate quite often from what was available at hiker boxes. They lost a tremendous amount of wt. Sometimes they went hungry because relying on hiker boxes is a hit or miss situation. Not a very smart way to rely on for eating or for gear while on a thru-hike. In my mind, relying on raiding hiker boxes consistently is no way to thru-hike. Kind of a selfish dirtbag way to hike to me. Yeah, I said it! Other hikers tried helping them as much as they could but their needs were greater than others could supply. They sometimes bummed food and gear from other hikers. Not all hikers appreciated the extra burden. Some hikers felt uncomfortable around them because they would ask for things because they didn't have enough money to provide for these things themselves or they would see how they were suffering because of being unprepared. I would sometimes see them in town. While most other hikers were congregating at a hostel, restaurant, outfitter, etc they very often didn't/coudn't participate because they were on such a strict budget or they didn't have funds. They were almost always filthy with tattered clothing. When I say filthy, I mean beyond what even thru-hikers call filthy. They didn't have rain jackets for a while. I saw the woman, soaked through, shivering uncontrollably at a shelter in the Smokies. Several times, after their money got real low, to their credit, I guess because they also felt it was their yr., they did some part-time work along the trail raising additional hiking funds. They found a way, albeit, by sometimes also altering the hikes of others, but they made it! They summitted Katahdin within a few days of when I did!
If this is your yr to thru-hike than we will see! I wish you well!
Jim Adams
02-14-2010, 13:06
Make as much more money as you can before you leave and then just go and don't look back. Stay out of towns. You can heat water over a fire to wash with. Take the occassional day off just to wash clothes in camp. It will be a true "wilderness" life style but if you are already used to it then go as far as you can. If you make it the whole way it will be the trip of your lifetime. If you only get 1/2 way then you have another 6 months to save for the other half. You can eat on $20 / week if you buy and eat cheap along the way...may not be great food but food none the less. 26 weeks x $20 = $520.
Is it possible? Probably. Will you enjoy it? Depends on your lifestyle. If you live frugal normally and this is your only chance...you will probably love it and will always have good memories...to stay home wondering if you had enough money is no memories. GO!!!!
geek
highside
02-14-2010, 13:27
Well, I don't want to be a bum and cause extra hardships on other hikers so I guess I will take all of the money I can and when it's gone it's gone. The only reason I posted this thread is because everything I have read about the cost of the hike would be around $2000-$6000 dollars. You know good and well the original thru-hikers up until 70's or whenever this trail became so trendy didn't spend that kind of money. I mean, I understand the point of inflation, but I'm talking about the fact there weren't any hostels, no where near as many hotels or restaurants as there are today. I'm comfortable with being uncomfortable and can find joy in just about anything. As long as I can eat, I can hike. We'll see how far I get. Ramen and multi-vitamins? $1 double cheeseburgers and reduced fruits and vegetables from grocery stores when I get into towns?
Cheapest possible thru-hike is probably free.
Don't you mean someone else pays your way?
Jester2000
02-14-2010, 14:03
You know good and well the original thru-hikers up until 70's or whenever this trail became so trendy didn't spend that kind of money. I mean, I understand the point of inflation, but I'm talking about the fact there weren't any hostels, no where near as many hotels or restaurants as there are today. . .
Actually, adjusted for inflation, a lot of thru-hikers spent more money in towns, because there weren't hostels & other services that provided discounted rates for hikers.
Don't you mean someone else pays your way?
Well, I suppose it depends on what you mean by that. Food discarded in a hiker box is just that -- discarded food. Someone else did pay for it, yeah, but they pretty obviously didn't want it.
Dumpster diving? Also discarded food. Technically the grocery store or whatever paid for it at one point. But I don't think I would consider that having someone else "pay your way."
Work for stay at hostels and such? If the work needs to be done, and isn't just charity, I think that's actually just working.
So yeah, it can be done for free, insofar as anything is "free." Depends on what strategies you adopt, and what you're willing to put up with.
Don't you mean someone else pays your way?
In some ways, yes.
It's still possible, though, if someone is willing to be "that guy." Which is the point, basically.
berkshirebirder
02-14-2010, 14:34
I'm not a thru-hiker (yet), but I'm interested in the group's psychology. If you had to choose between helping a hiker having a temporary problem but otherwise prepared and one who hopes to thru without enough preparation including their own resources, which one would you help?
Actually, adjusted for inflation, a lot of thru-hikers spent more money in towns, because there weren't hostels & other services that provided discounted rates for hikers.
The point may be hikers spent less time in towns. In 1980 many if not most of the places referred to as hostels or other subsidized lodgings were provided by churches.
Early A.T. hikers sometimes were invited by locals into their homes, slept in outbuildings or enjoyed other opportunities no longer available due to route changes and increasing user levels.
Well, I suppose it depends on what you mean by that.
The A.T. and those value it will benefit more when its users know more about its resources it serves to protect including but not limited to its history and culture and when they come by their experiences primarily through their own efforts.
My concern with some of the posts I see is we could be encouraging use of the A.T. which is not consistent with its best interests and in the longer term will change it if not despoil it.
To be more direct, people unable or unwilling to provide for themselves shouldn't expect others on the A.T. to provide for them. It's one thing to assist someone, but it's another thing altogether to fund hikes for individuals unwilling to defer gratification and perfectly capable of providing for themselves.
Those who start with less financial resources than what's required to complete their objective need to recognize when they're no longer able to provide for their own support and should not expect others to carry them.
Enabling such individuals may be a disservice to them, one's fellow hikers, the A.T. and those who provide the experience.
I'm not a thru-hiker (yet), but I'm interested in the group's psychology. If you had to choose between helping a hiker having a temporary problem but otherwise prepared and one who hopes to thru without enough preparation including their own resources, which one would you help?
Neither. I carry enough for me. The only help I could offer is to inform in which direction and how far it would be to reach a town where one could possibly get a job or seek out social services. I planned and saved for years for MY thru hike. Not room in my pack or budget to support someone else. I'm not about to let someone die out there, but I have no problem sharing a little tough love either.
JustaTouron
02-14-2010, 15:51
I'm not a thru-hiker (yet), but I'm interested in the group's psychology. If you had to choose between helping a hiker having a temporary problem but otherwise prepared and one who hopes to thru without enough preparation including their own resources, which one would you help?
Neither. I carry enough for me. The only help I could offer is to inform in which direction and how far it would be to reach a town where one could possibly get a job or seek out social services. I planned and saved for years for MY thru hike. Not room in my pack or budget to support someone else. I'm not about to let someone die out there, but I have no problem sharing a little tough love either.
For me it would matter.
Someone who brings a water filter, but it breaks I would let them use mine until we get to the next town. Someone who doesn't bring a water filter can drink dirty water.
Someone makes a mistake in the way they hang their food bag and it gets raided by animals and I have some extra I would help. Someone doesn't budget for enough food or doesn't do what they are suppose to to keep animals away can starve.
Someone doesn't pack a tent, I am not making room for them in the shelter. Someone packs a tent that rips but doesn't pack any duct tape, I will give them tape to make a repair.
You know good and well the original thru-hikers up until 70's or whenever this trail became so trendy didn't spend that kind of money. I mean, I understand the point of inflation, but I'm talking about the fact there weren't any hostels, no where near as many hotels or restaurants as there are today. I'm comfortable with being uncomfortable and can find joy in just about anything. As long as I can eat, I can hike. We'll see how far I get. Ramen and multi-vitamins? $1 double cheeseburgers and reduced fruits and vegetables from grocery stores when I get into towns?Unfortunately, and not to be disrespectful, but that was then and this is now. $100 in the 70's bought one bags and bags of groceries. Today you are lucky to leave the store with a few. You can have a decent wilderness experience on your $500 for as far as it will go (and understand I have never thru-hiked), but from what I have learned, that amount will be very hard to finance a trip like this. Your talking like $3 a day. I mean I guess depending upon who you are, if you receive help, etc...it is possible, but eating good, replacing gear when needed, getting off the trail for real shelter and recuperation when necessary are important things one needs to consider being able to afford and do if one wants to really have a chance of being able to complete an entire thru-hike.
To be more direct, people unable or unwilling to provide for themselves shouldn't expect others on the A.T. to provide for them. It's one thing to assist someone, but it is another thing altogether to fund hikes for individuals unwilling to defer gratification and perfectly capable of providing for themselves.I had a thread I had posted awhile back in the "Thru-Hikers Specific Topics" catagory entitled "Under-Funded Thru-Hikers" in which a lot of this was discussed if anybody is interested in reading other's comments about this.
Aside from the obvious things like avoiding towns as much as possible, an extreme low budget trip requires carrying more food than most modern hikers manage to do. Stop only at towns with large supermarkets, and avoid all convenience foods. To the extent possible buy only big packages of rice, powdered milk, oatmeal, and pasta, and a few spices, sweeteners, like basil, sugar, salt and pepper. Check the labels carefully. Look for the most calories per buck. You can cut your food costs in half or more. The draw back. This stuff takes longer to cook. So plan on doing a lot of cooking over a wood stove. Carry a simple hobo stove and plan to spend an extra half hour or more a day finding wood, and cooking.
Finally graze the hiker boxes. They often hold a wealth of goodies. And if worse comes to worse, just head north, stopping from time to time to do a few odd jobs for pay. A thru hike is ideal. But a few hundred miles, or a thousand mile walk is better than nothing -- and far more than most people, even many thru hiker wanna be's, ever achieve.
Weary
Johnny Appleseed
02-14-2010, 16:41
better hit the hiker boxes for food. Forget eating in any restaurant. Try to get close to 2,000$ and you can get all the food you want and some drink/hostels, but still stay out of any hotel.
Jester2000
02-14-2010, 16:54
The A.T. and those value it will benefit more when its users know more about its resources it serves to protect including but not limited to its history and culture and when they come by their experiences primarily through their own efforts.
My concern with some of the posts I see is we could be encouraging use of the A.T. which is not consistent with its best interests and in the longer term will change it if not despoil it.
To be more direct, people unable or unwilling to provide for themselves shouldn't expect others on the A.T. to provide for them. It's one thing to assist someone, but it's another thing altogether to fund hikes for individuals unwilling to defer gratification and perfectly capable of providing for themselves.
Those who start with less financial resources than what's required to complete their objective need to recognize when they're no longer able to provide for their own support and should not expect others to carry them.
Enabling such individuals may be a disservice to them, one's fellow hikers, the A.T. and those who provide the experience.
I don't presume to think I know what's best for the AT, or which changes make it better or worse.
But I think the majority of posters on whiteblaze who have hiked the trail, including myself, would tell people that a severely underfunded thru-hike attempt is a bad idea, and I think the majority of posts on this thread have been consistent with that. Those who do say to go ahead and hike almost always point out that the person will most likely not hike the entire trail, but that the person might have a good experience anyway.
If answering a question is enabling, well then I might just be guilty of that.
The original poster asked what the cheapest anyone has hiked the trail on. The answer is zero, and I knew one person who did it. That person didn't beg from fellow hikers or use their gear, and in fact had to essentially be tricked by Bob Peoples into accepting a backpack (he had previously been carrying his stuff in a 5 gallon paint bucket).
He didn't expect anyone on the AT to help him, and in fact the only thing he would accept from me other than my company was a cup of coffee when I saw him in town.
I didn't see him despoiling the trail in any particular way.
Personally, I'll help someone on the trail if their gear is faulty, or if they forgot something, and I'll help them until we reach the next town. But I'm not going to bankroll someone else's hike, and I'm not a sherpa.
But neither am I going to tell someone what they are or are not capable of. I'll tell them what the negatives are, and try to make them realize how hard it would be to do such a hike, particularly for their first thru-hike. And I'm going to discourage them from being the guy who's the mooch on the trail. But I'm not going to presume to tell them they can't do it, or even that they shouldn't try.
And I'm not going to automatically think that hiking the trail on no funds necessarily means having other people pay for your hike. 'Cause I've seen it done without resorting to that.
Snowleopard
02-14-2010, 17:11
weathercarrot's article is interesting. He was doing it in 2003 for $1000. That seems to include a bit of staying at hostels. With inflation? $1250 to $1500?? With $500, just go as far as you can. Save as much as you can before you leave and try to pick up short term work along the way.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=22959#post22959
Nutrition and Food: Try to eat a reasonably nutritious diet. Read up on nutrition. Rice and beans (lentils cook reasonably fast) is good and cheap. Explore your local supermarkets/Walmarts, etc. See what's available in bulk. Start eating/cooking cheap at home to learn what you like, what cooks quick enough and is filling. Don't buy any more junk food till you start your hike. You can probably save a fair amount of money on food at home and still eat in a healthier manner than you do now. Once you're on the trail you'll be shopping for a combination of nutrition and calories.
Check craig's list for a cheap food dehydrator. Read Sarbar's web site http://www.trailcooking.com/trail-cooking-101/freezer-bag-cooking-101 and the Cooking and Food forum on WB.
Just get out there and see how far you can make it. Have fun on the trail.
Sumone86
02-14-2010, 17:19
2003 i hike around honduras from Mar. till sept. other then gear and plane ticket thats all the money i spent.
Save more .... enjoy yourself more.
I just added up the figures. My wife and I spent just 429.38 in the ;ast month at the supermarket where i do 90%plus of our shopping. That's since Jan. 20 for those who may be counting. We do not skimp. Nor does anyone think we do not eat well. We've had guests over for dinner a couple of times. Kids and grandkids show up regularly for family dinners and seem to think we eat better than they do. Two are expected in a few minutes for some pizzas I'm making from scratch.
Admittedly, we do not have the calorie needs of a thru hiker, though I manage to walk 5 miles most days with a 15 pound pack.
But my wife and I consume a bottle of wine a day -- an $180 cost that an under budget thru hiker should forego. And included in the $429.38 is $32 for the Sunday and Tuesday New York Times, my wife's passion for doritos, and the Sam Adams I consume occasionally, but mostly buy for the friend my daughter lives with, who would be a son in law should they get married. He's willing, but Brenda isn't.
The secret: Don't buy anything -- or very little that isn't on sale. Don't buy brand names unless a sale makes them more attractive than the generic version. It happens quite often really.
Translating this to the trail. If you want to hike cheaply you need to shop wisely, and be willing to carry more weight, because cheap buys don't come as often as you might like. You'll often need to carry a 10 day supply of things that are extra cheap.
No, you can't do the trail on just $500. But you can come close if you really want to do the trail, and are able to forego the fun of the continuing series of parties that keep many hikers happy through the long green tunnel.
Tip. Learn to apprciate the many wonders of the tunnel and you will experience a better hike than even the most avid party hiker.
Weary
It would be pretty close to impossible to complete a thru hike on just $500--unless you raided the hiker boxes and became dependent upon handouts (and I don't think I could personally be proud of completing such a hike).
My biggest concern for you would be a lack of proper nutrition. Hiking burns a lot of calories (Most people need to consume over 5000 calories per day on a long hike). Lack of sufficient calories and a lack of proper nutrients can cause long term damage to bones, joints, muscles and bodily organs. Such problems CANNOT be prevented just by taking a daily multi-vitamin. You will need to actually consume enough of the (right kind) of calories. You could even face long-term problems such as diabetes and bone/joint issues due to a lack of proper nutrition on a thru hike (these problems may not surface for many years). A thru hike isn't worth a lifetime of health problems or an early death.
I recommend that you start a little later and do a SOBO hike. You will probably have better weather for most of the hike and possibly need less cold weather gear.
Work like heck until your hike starts. Work 2-3 jobs and work as many hours as you can. In addition to that, mow lawns, shovel sidewalks, sell plasma, register with temporary employment agencies, collect and sell aluminum cans. Do ANYTHING (legal) that you can possibly do in order to earn more money.
Look around your house or apartment. Sell items that you do not need (use ebay or a yard sale). Try to borrow money from friends and relatives--with an actual contract or agreement to pay it back. (Then pay them back!). Cut every non-essential expense from your daily living. Use coupons to reduce the cost of food and other items. Search the internet for sites that tell you how to cut living expenses.
Every extra $150-180 dollars that you can earn (or save) is an extra dollar per day for you to use on the trail.
If you start your thru hike 1-3 months later--and save more money prior to your departure--you will have a much better chance of having a successful thru hike and reduce your need to drop out early due to a lack of funds.
Good luck!
Jim Adams
02-14-2010, 19:42
Tip. Learn to apprciate the many wonders of the tunnel and you will experience a better hike than even the most avid party hiker.
Weary
Maybe the wisest statement for any and every thru.:cool:
Thanks Weary!
geek
Blissful
02-14-2010, 20:29
You might be able to pick up some cash via work in towns. But no way will you be able to do the whole thing on $500. But go at least for a section. Better than nothing. Section hiking is a great way to go.
Cash, grass or ass, no one hikes for free ...
Appalachian Tater
02-15-2010, 01:38
Get as much money as you can together, hike as far as you can, enjoy it, ask around for work, don't be a mooch and make sure you have enough money to get home. And have fun!
Not even close. It costs about 1.50 per mile on the cheep side. that's stayin out of town, no pizza and beer workin for stay and such. Not a fun hike.
I think you are drastically underestimating our abilities to be cheap. College is perfect training. :rolleyes:
Bezekid609
02-15-2010, 11:38
i've heard from a thru hiker named Why Not? about another hiker whom he encountered that was attempting the whole trail on 1000$ but his diet consisted of flour pancakes with sugar and water and a multi vitamin... day in and day out. He'd drink the mix cold uncooked when he couldnt cook it (yikes!). i imagine he broke this routine in town though. and jester is correct, learn to live frugely ahead of time and the price can only come down... read up on the trail as much as you can. wild edibles abound in sections, as does the goodwill and kindness of others.
Go for it but when the money runs out stop. I met 2 guys in Virginia that werefixing ramon noodles for lunch, 2 paks each. They were SOBO, and said they were eating mac and cheeze and noodles most every day. They even cooked on a wood stove. You do not have to party, you do not have to stay in a hotel or hostels, you do not need to bath with indoor plumbing, but if these things are necessay for ya, you will need more $$$. When everyone heads to town for pizza, what will you do? You will not be able to afford such luxury, at least if you want to finish.
Appalachian Tater
02-16-2010, 21:26
After reading another thread, I think you could do a through hike for no money at all if you eat whatever is in the hiker box and don't run into any problems. If there isn't enough food in the hiker box to get you to the next one, hang out there until there is enough, grab it quick, and take off. Good luck!
I haven't thru-hiked yet, but I'll repeat what some have said here and advised me on another thread: Consider going for a Southbound, starting July 1-ish. Save as much as you can during the next 4.5 months.
That said, whatever you end up doing, enjoy it to the fullest! Life's short. And bets wishes. :)
A good thing to do would be to see if you can make it through Lent while only spending money on groceries, and see how little you can live on, while still eating healthy. You can also walk everywhere instead of driving or taking public transportation, so you would save money there also, and get into hiking shape. The idea is that you would learn just how cheap you can live, and save for your hike at the same time. Best wishes.
TheF'nLunchLady
02-17-2010, 01:38
I did it for under 1200. Less than that is asking a lot of other people on the trail. Dont get me wrong, most people will gladly help you, but its hard to keep it real real cheap. You can only have so many people buy you cheeseburgers for free when your out there. We only took about 8 zero days the whole way and did it in under four months, and we still spent aboutn $6-7 a day on food. Don't factor living cost, only factor food cost and you'll come up past $500 quick, however you can still probly beat that. You'll just have to rely on your average trail angel more than you should.
DickHumbird
02-17-2010, 10:14
There's A free shower in Maryland, and a couple more up north. And by Massachusetts it's too cold to stream bathe. You're def going to want a shower every week or so so budget for hostels.
jersey joe
02-17-2010, 10:53
I did my 02' thru on the cheap, probably around 1k. I believe I could thru hike with $500 if I had to, though, it wouldn't be easy. Just stay out of the damn towns! One big factor that I didn't see here is that the faster you complete your hike, the less money you will spend. If you can complete your hike in 3-4 months you can do it much cheaper than if you are out there for 6 months.
Not only are shorter hikes less expensive, returning to work sooner replenishes one's coffers sooner.:-?
The only problem is I'm REALLY short on cash. I have all of my gear, just not much left over.
If you're "REALLY short on cash" I would not attempt a thru-hike.
Panzer
Jester2000
02-17-2010, 18:07
If you're "REALLY short on cash" I would not attempt a thru-hike.
Panzer
I wouldn't either, actually, but that's because I know how I like to hike, and it doesn't really involve all that much deprivation and suffering.
I'm not a thru-hiker (yet), but I'm interested in the group's psychology. If you had to choose between helping a hiker having a temporary problem but otherwise prepared and one who hopes to thru without enough preparation including their own resources, which one would you help?
I don't know...I think a lot depends on the individual and how it is approached. If your'e a personable, likeable person, you aren't a beggar or a user, you are gracious and grateful when help is offered, are willing to work or trade for what you need, that makes a huge difference. The guy I hiked with that was basically hiking with nothing was all of the above, and I never heard anyone complain about him...most everybody liked him and encouraged him.
Now if you're crabby, complain a lot that you don't have money or food, feel entitled to help because you have nothing, are constantly pestering people for food or to borrow their gear, won't take no for an answer, turn down work when its offered, etc, etc, I think everybody will try to avoid you and you won't be a very popular addition to the trail.
The guy I hiked with, I don't ever remember anyone feeling like they had to avoid him because he was sponging off of them. People liked having him around...in fact, he'd share anything HE had with YOU, even though he probably didn't know where his next re-supply was coming from. He was a genuinely giving person.
But nobody ever felt like he was a burden, and he didn't want to be a burden to anyone.
stranger
02-18-2010, 05:38
From what I've seen since 1994, it's absolutely impossible to hike on 23 cents per mile ($500)
Just trail food alone would exhaust that amount, and the notion of supplimenting your food bag with the contents of hiker boxes may work well in the overcrowded south at times, but seems like a fairly unrealistic approach overall.
Think about this...if you left Springer Mountain with a weeks worth of food (that was in addition to your budget) and hiked straight to Franklin, passing Neels Gap without stopping and avoiding Hiawassee as well, you would arrive in Franklin after 107 miles and have $24.61 to spend. That's not enough to resupply, forget showers and laundry, you can't even buy soap to wash on the trail - we're just talking trail food as far as I'm concerned, and the south is much cheaper than the north.
Now...double that amount ($1000 budget), you would arrive in Franklin with $49.22, you can certainly buy a weeks food for that amount if you are smart about it and get to the next town, say Gatlinburg, where you could spend another 50 bucks or so. Even with $1000, you wouldn't be able to do much other than eat on the trail, what are you doing to do when you need new shoes? Or you get sick or potentially injured?
Hike as far as you can, and enjoy every single day...don't set yourself a goal you cannot possibly accomplish, that's just sabotage.
Stir Fry
02-18-2010, 06:26
How cheep can you eat for a week now. X number of weeks you will be on the trail. Its not going to be any cheeper then that.
jersey joe
02-18-2010, 11:01
From what I've seen since 1994, it's absolutely impossible to hike on 23 cents per mile ($500)
Just trail food alone would exhaust that amount, and the notion of supplimenting your food bag with the contents of hiker boxes may work well in the overcrowded south at times, but seems like a fairly unrealistic approach overall.
Think about this...if you left Springer Mountain with a weeks worth of food (that was in addition to your budget) and hiked straight to Franklin, passing Neels Gap without stopping and avoiding Hiawassee as well, you would arrive in Franklin after 107 miles and have $24.61 to spend. That's not enough to resupply, forget showers and laundry, you can't even buy soap to wash on the trail - we're just talking trail food as far as I'm concerned, and the south is much cheaper than the north.
Now...double that amount ($1000 budget), you would arrive in Franklin with $49.22, you can certainly buy a weeks food for that amount if you are smart about it and get to the next town, say Gatlinburg, where you could spend another 50 bucks or so. Even with $1000, you wouldn't be able to do much other than eat on the trail, what are you doing to do when you need new shoes? Or you get sick or potentially injured?
Hike as far as you can, and enjoy every single day...don't set yourself a goal you cannot possibly accomplish, that's just sabotage.
This is where hiking more miles per day helps...At 23cents per mile and 20 miles per day, you have about $5 per day to spend on food. That is doable.
Jester2000
02-18-2010, 11:20
This is where hiking more miles per day helps...At 23cents per mile and 20 miles per day, you have about $5 per day to spend on food. That is doable.
The other part of that equation might be harder to figure -- hiking more miles per day probably necessitates eating more per day, which probably necessitates spending more on food per day.
Spirit Walker
02-18-2010, 12:06
One thing not discussed here so far - be prepared to cook over a fire. A lot of what is left behind in the hiker boxes is nutritious food that seemed like a good idea at home but is impractical for long distance hiking i.e. lentils, long grain rice, split peas. Most hiker stoves won't work for these, because they do have a long cooking time. Then there are the unidentified white powders: could be milk, protein powder, or mashed potatoes. It makes dinner an adventure.
How cheep can you eat for a week now. X number of weeks you will be on the trail. Its not going to be any cheeper then that.
As I posted before, my wife and I now eat for about $25 a week each. That's not directly related to the trail. Trails demand more calories, but we also consume occasional luxuries, and from time to time share food with kids and grandkids.
Also I know the stores where I shop, and can buy ahead when bargains show up. Something a long distance hiker can't do much of.
But at $25 a week, food costs for a four month hike comes to $400.
I totally agree with those who doubt if this is really possible for a younger person heading north in April. But for a strong-willed person, harvesting hiker boxes, and avoiding towns, it may be within the realm of remote possibility.
However, I do know that most hikers on a budget can cut their food costs well below what most now report spending.
Weary
If possible, why not pick up a part time job? $8/hr for a weekend-type job (or equivalent 16 hours) is $6600 before taxes of a year of working. Call it $5000 after taxes. That's a very nice thru-hike.
(And believe me, lots of part time jobs out there w/o benefits..I've been looking. :) )
Their was a guy who did the whole trail on $800.00 this did not incl. travel to and from the trail he had friends that help him out on that. He already had all his gear for the hike
plus he had some friend that send him maildrops to. One thing you can eat petty cheap
at fast food places almost all fast foods places have a dollar menu now days so that just one wat to save money to.
How cheep can you eat for a week now. X number of weeks you will be on the trail. Its not going to be any cheeper then that.
You are correct. You can often find less expensive food in your home area than you can find (consistently) on (or near) any trail. Thus, seeing how cheaply you can eat for a week at home and then multiplying that by the number of weeks that you plan to be on the trail is about as cheap as you can do the food budget. (Short of "mooching" food, stealing food, begging, raiding hiker boxes etc.)
However, I will add to your comments. Nutritionists tell us that long distance hikers and distance runners require 5,000 calories per day (or more) in order to avoid their body breaking down. That is often far more calories than people are currently eating at home. Thus, your total food needs could be as much as DOUBLE the calories that you are currently eating at home. You need to take that into account when budgeting for food on a long distance hike.
As I see people discussing the food that they will eat on the trail, they often fail to realize how much more food they will need on a LONG DISTANCE hike in order to stay healthy.
On a one week hike, people often lose 5 lbs of body weight--and actually brag about their wonderful weight loss. However, if you lose 5 lbs per week for 20-25 weeks, your body will be really hurting! You need to eat lots of calories on a long hike--and that USUALLY costs "lots" of money.
More than several people are talking about attempting thru hikes on a very limited budget. This is a potential area of concern. These people are talking about living off the land, working for a while in trail towns, mooching off of others and raiding the hiker boxes as ways to supply their thru hike.
The problem is, the more people that try to do that, the less likely they ALL are to succeed. To a certain extent, there is only so much work available, so much food in hiker boxes, so much "mooching" that the system can handle. (Other hikers carry only so much "extra" food in their packs--and when it is gone--its gone).
Theoretically, the more ways that you divide these "limited" resources--the less each hiker gets. Thus, I definitely wouldn't depend upon these limited resources to supply your thru hike. There is a good chance that you will be disappointed (and hungry).
I've seen a few references to eating "cheap" by going to fast food places, and let me tell you that is not going to work.
$5 buys you one meal at McD's, that same five bucks can buy 7 or more meals if you learn to shop right and buy the least processed foods you can find. The only problem is you have to actually put some time in on your meal rather than having it handed to you by a greasy-faced teenager.
There's A free shower in Maryland, and a couple more up north. And by Massachusetts it's too cold to stream bathe. You're def going to want a shower every week or so so budget for hostels.In winter you can sponge bathe or have a snow bath if the streams are frozen, or too darn cold. Sure a hot shower or bath is hard to pass up, but outdoor bathing is always do-able and just too darn fun to pass up, year round. Somedays it is worth waiting until noon though.:banana
The other part of that equation might be harder to figure -- hiking more miles per day probably necessitates eating more per day, which probably necessitates spending more on food per day.Interesting point there. If you are only spending money on food, more miles per day means more food per day which means more money per day, but less money per mile. So a thru-hike is cheaper if you hike faster. On the other hand, 100 days on the trail is cheaper if you hike slower.
Jester2000
02-18-2010, 19:37
Interesting point there. If you are only spending money on food, more miles per day means more food per day which means more money per day, but less money per mile. So a thru-hike is cheaper if you hike faster. On the other hand, 100 days on the trail is cheaper if you hike slower.
Well now I'm just confused.
I've seen a few references to eating "cheap" by going to fast food places, and let me tell you that is not going to work.
$5 buys you one meal at McD's, that same five bucks can buy 7 or more meals if you learn to shop right and buy the least processed foods you can find. The only problem is you have to actually put some time in on your meal rather than having it handed to you by a greasy-faced teenager.I totally agree. You can eat cheaper, and better, out of a grocery store than from any fast food joint. You have to know how to shop.
Oats is a no-brainer for me, then other stuff to balance it out.
I haven't crunched the numbers in awhile, so I am not sure which is a cheaper way to balance the protiens of oats, whether it is skim milk powder or lentils or split peas. Probably split peas, but I would still get some skim milk powder also. Nuts and seeds can be expensive, but some almonds or peanuts are a good way to add some calorie density. I prefer almonds because they go better with oats. Raisins or currants and sometimes dates are a good way to add some density also. You can only eat so much oats. All that stuff is cheapest when bought in bulk, but you don't have to get the biggest bags. I get most of my hiking food in the baking goods section.
Staples:
Oatmeal: 1.35 kg bag = 5000 kcal
Split Peas: 500g bag = 1800 kcal ?
Skim Milk: 500g bag for 5 litres = 1800 kcal
Almonds: 400g bag = 2500 kcal
Currants: 500g bag = 1800 kcal ?
So there is 13000 kcal, or about 4 days worth. The oatmeal would be about 12 days worth, so you wouldn't buy that much every resupply. Maybe a 1kg bag is just as cheap, if they have them. I avoid the individual packets though. I like to add my own stuff, and its cheaper. The other staples you could buy every resupply because you can get them in more reasonable sizes. You could switch it up a bit each resupply also. Raisins or dates instead of currants. Lentils instead of split peas. Maybe some dried vegetable soup packets to add some flavour to the lentils. Maybe a 500g tub of honey.
I'm not sure what that stuff would add up to in $1/day. $1 to $2/day maybe. It is fairly balanced, but you would still need something for vitamin C. Plus you can get some fresh vegetables, fruit, meat, cheese and chow down on it right away. That adds some $, but still cheaper and better than fast food. Some of that would last a few days also, like oranges, carrots, cheese, just a bit heavy, but a little would add some variety and flavour and balance to your staples. Tea and spices adds some $, but not alot. You can also get some flavours from the woods, like wintergreen from yellow birch.
5 miles per $ would be do-able. $500 would get you half way.
The thing would be to practice at home, and in doing so save the other $500.
Johnny Thunder
02-18-2010, 20:13
Well now I'm just confused.
A classic example of 2+2=5=7.
Staples:
Oatmeal: 1.35 kg bag = 5000 kcal (you said this was 12 days worth)
Split Peas: 500g bag = 1800 kcal ?
Skim Milk: 500g bag for 5 litres = 1800 kcal
Almonds: 400g bag = 2500 kcal
Currants: 500g bag = 1800 kcal ?
So there is 13000 kcal, or about 4 days worth.......
I'm not sure what that stuff would add up to in $1/day. $1 to $2/day maybe. It is fairly balanced, but you would still need something for vitamin C. Plus you can get some fresh vegetables, fruit, meat, cheese and chow down on it right away. That adds some $, but still cheaper and better than fast food. Some of that would last a few days also, like oranges, carrots, cheese, just a bit heavy, but a little would add some variety and flavour and balance to your staples. Tea and spices adds some $, but not alot. You can also get some flavours from the woods, like wintergreen from yellow birch.
5 miles per $ would be do-able. $500 would get you half way.
The thing would be to practice at home, and in doing so save the other $500.
I priced a list similar to the one you mentioned (at a large grocery store in Illinois. I tried to use inexpensive generic or "store brand" items). This is what I found:
Oats (18 oz--510 grams)--$1.47
Split Peas (16 oz--453 grams) $0.96
Dry (powdered) milk--enough for 8 quarts $6.87 (roughly $4.25 for 5 quarts)
Almonds (16 oz--453 grams) $1.99
Currants (10 oz--283 grams) $2.98 (2 bags is 566 grams $5.96)
Total of $14.63 for the underlined items.
IF we accept your argument that this is roughly 4 days worth of food (I am not certain that I agree with that argument). Then it comes to $3.65 per day--without taxes and without any of the other add-ons that you suggest--such a fresh fruit, vegetables, meat, tea, spices.
That is $547.50 for a 150 day thru hike.
I would argue that the 5 items on your shopping list amount to ROUGHLY 2400 calories per day. (I am trusting that your calorie amounts are accurate). Unfortunately, 2400 calories per day is less than half of the 5000 calories (or more) per day that many thru hikers require. So, you have to at least DOUBLE the amounts you have listed. ($7.30 per day and $1,095 for a 150 day thru hike). PLUS all of the add-ons previously mentioned.
Thru hikes get COSTLY pretty fast!
Appalachian Tater
02-18-2010, 22:59
Where the heck are you getting almonds for $2.00 a pound? Peanuts cost more than that at Trader Joes!
Where the heck are you getting almonds for $2.00 a pound? Peanuts cost more than that at Trader Joes!
My local grocery store permits people to order their groceries online. They then they add a fee for either having the items bagged and waiting for you when you arrive (or an even larger fee for home delivery).
Thus, this store has most of their items (and most of their prices) available online. The price I quoted is the actual price that they had listed for the almonds. I just double checked it. I agree with you on the price being low! (Maybe a typo--or some weird sale!)
Appalachian Tater
02-18-2010, 23:22
My local grocery store permits people to order their groceries online. They then they add a fee for either having the items bagged and waiting for you when you arrive (or an even larger fee for home delivery).
Thus, this store has most of their items (and most of their prices) available online. The price I quoted is the actual price that they had listed for the almonds. I just double checked it. I agree with you on the price being low! (Maybe a typo--or some weird sale!)
Hmm, looking around that is probably a 6 oz. bag, Diamond brand, not 16 oz. Peanuts would work almost as well, anyway.
The thing is, I would not be happy eating only oatmeal, dried legumes, powdered milk, and raisins even for four weeks. You really need a little variety, some cheese, candy bars, fruit.
Still, a typical one week resupply can be done for for $5 a day, especially if you like ramen (I do) and split some things like powdered milk or bags of dried fruit with someone. I don't mind store brands, it's what I normally buy.
That in-town food once a week is pretty important, though, and costs almost as much as a week's worth of trail food, sometimes more. Four years since my thru and I can very clearly remember every single in-town meal I ate from Georgia to Maine, from the pizza in Dahlonega to the microwave cheeseburgers at Abol Bridge.
Hmm, looking around that is probably a 6 oz. bag, Diamond brand, not 16 oz. Peanuts would work almost as well, anyway.
The thing is, I would not be happy eating only oatmeal, dried legumes, powdered milk, and raisins even for four weeks. You really need a little variety, some cheese, candy bars, fruit.
Still, a typical one week resupply can be done for for $5 a day, especially if you like ramen (I do) and split some things like powdered milk or bags of dried fruit with someone. I don't mind store brands, it's what I normally buy.
That in-town food once a week is pretty important, though, and costs almost as much as a week's worth of trail food, sometimes more. Four years since my thru and I can very clearly remember every single in-town meal I ate from Georgia to Maine, from the pizza in Dahlonega to the microwave cheeseburgers at Abol Bridge.
"Tater":
1. Agree with you on the almond price. (And, I like peanuts better than almonds anyway!) :)
2. I agree with you. I would not like to eat the diet that the previous poster proposed. (I don't like split peas. I "tolerate" powdered skim milk. I prefer "traditional" raisins to currants. Oatmeal is "OK"). :eek:
3. I agree that there are less expensive trail "menus" than the one listed in those posts. (Remember, I didn't pick the menu--I just commented upon it!) :p
4. Part of the reason for my post was to take issue with this quote from a previous poster: "I'm not sure what that stuff would add up to in $1/day. $1 to $2/day maybe." I KNEW that you could not buy those 5 items (in those amounts) for just $1 - $2 per day! :D
More than several people are talking about attempting thru hikes on a very limited budget. This is a potential area of concern. These people are talking about living off the land, working for a while in trail towns, mooching off of others and raiding the hiker boxes as ways to supply their thru hike.
The problem is, the more people that try to do that, the less likely they ALL are to succeed. To a certain extent, there is only so much work available, so much food in hiker boxes, so much "mooching" that the system can handle. (Other hikers carry only so much "extra" food in their packs--and when it is gone--its gone).
Theoretically, the more ways that you divide these "limited" resources--the less each hiker gets. Thus, I definitely wouldn't depend upon these limited resources to supply your thru hike. There is a good chance that you will be disappointed (and hungry).
The reality is most of those dreaming of an extra cheap thru hike, are just that -- dreaming. Most will quickly drop out, as most thru hikers do -- on the cheap, or not.
I suspect that after a few days on the trail, the really dedicated low budget hiker will still find hiker boxes with useful food, and occasional parttime jobs for extra cash.
Weary
I would think a properly funded hike nearer home without the expenses involved with travel to one of the A.T. termini would be more rewarding.
I priced a list similar to the one you mentioned (at a large grocery store in Illinois. I tried to use inexpensive generic or "store brand" items). This is what I found:
Oats (18 oz--510 grams)--$1.47
Split Peas (16 oz--453 grams) $0.96
Dry (powdered) milk--enough for 8 quarts $6.87 (roughly $4.25 for 5 quarts)
Almonds (16 oz--453 grams) $1.99
Currants (10 oz--283 grams) $2.98 (2 bags is 566 grams $5.96)
Total of $14.63 for the underlined items.
IF we accept your argument that this is roughly 4 days worth of food (I am not certain that I agree with that argument). Then it comes to $3.65 per day--without taxes and without any of the other add-ons that you suggest--such a fresh fruit, vegetables, meat, tea, spices.
That is $547.50 for a 150 day thru hike.
I would argue that the 5 items on your shopping list amount to ROUGHLY 2400 calories per day. (I am trusting that your calorie amounts are accurate). Unfortunately, 2400 calories per day is less than half of the 5000 calories (or more) per day that many thru hikers require. So, you have to at least DOUBLE the amounts you have listed. ($7.30 per day and $1,095 for a 150 day thru hike). PLUS all of the add-ons previously mentioned.
Thru hikes get COSTLY pretty fast!Hey thanks for all that.
Yeah, using just 1/3 of the bag of oats would knock it down to 3 days worth,
so that would make it more like $5/day, at about 3200 kcal/day.
But at 5000 kcal/day, you should it it in well under 150 days.
Admittedly, it depends on total weight on feet.
Lets take a total weight on feet of 180 pounds. Lets say a rest of day expenditure of 1600 kcal for a 160 pounder. That means 1600 kcal for travel, which should move 180 pounds about 16 miles over smooth flat terrain, and perhaps 12 miles over average AT terrain. Not sure. Anyhow that works out to 1200 miles for $500 for a 160 pounder with 20 pounds skin out. I figured $500 might get half way. Also, if you practice $5/day at home, or $5 per 3200 kcal, you could save the other $500.
Interestingly, if you had 20 pounds of fat to lose also, and lost it in the first 40 days, that would add some weight, but also save you some food, so it would give you extra 10 days on the trail, or 120 miles.
Anyhow, thanks for the corrections. I think $0.50 per mile for food is do-able.
An extra $0.25 for meat, fresh fruit and veggies, and tea would be nice also.
So I guess that would make it $1500 for a frugal thru-hike.
Pehaps an even better rule of thumb might be $10 for every pound of weigh on feet.
So $2000 for a 180 pound hiker with 20 pounds of average skin out weight.
ATSeamstress
02-20-2010, 01:08
This question seems to come up every year, and what I'd like to see is someone do a thru-hike as inexpensively as possible, with no freebies, no hiker boxes, trail magic, handouts, or the like. Have the money saved up front and a full complement of gear. Eat a balanced diet with plenty of calories and maintain reasonable hygiene. Then write a book or on-line journal detailing exactly how much was spent and where the money went. (I'd write the book because it sounds like work to me!) That would give folks a good starting point on how much to budget, then if they get the extra goodies, the work-for-stay or trail magic, it's a bonus.
The only way to do it on $500 is to be a mooch or a beggar. If you are OK with that then go for it.
highside
02-20-2010, 16:16
I'm up to $900 now, with still more than a month to go! I got more work on the way too!
The Old Fhart
02-20-2010, 16:41
highside-"I'm up to $900 now, with still more than a month to go! I got more work on the way too!"Given that you have increased your cash supply by about $400 since you first posted and you have have been willing to listen and filter through all the advice given, I'd say that shows a commitment that most others who want to do the trail on limited funds lack. Where you have all your gear that helps a lot and you have already planned on transportation to and from the trail. I'd say your chances of completing a thru hike are looking better and better. Good luck.
I'm up to $900 now, with still more than a month to go! I got more work on the way too!
Given that you have increased your cash supply by about $400 since you first posted and you have have been willing to listen and filter through all the advice given, I'd say that shows a commitment that most others who want to do the trail on limited funds lack. Where you have all your gear that helps a lot and you have already planned on transportation to and from the trail. I'd say your chances of completing a thru hike are looking better and better. Good luck.
Agreed! This may not be everyone's route to obtaining their thru-hiking dreams, but it sure does demonstrate commitment, planning, personal accountability, and a desire to earn their goals.
All the Best
CARPE DIEM! But, you already seem to know this!
Go For It Rock!. Go For it!
For $900 you can be a "thru-moocher".
If you want to be a "thru-hiker" that will cost you a bit more.
Panzer
The Old Fhart
02-20-2010, 19:01
Panzer1-"For $900 you can be a "thru-moocher".
If you want to be a "thru-hiker" that will cost you a bit more.
Panzer"Pay attention, the fat lady ain't singing yet. You should re-read this.
I'm up to $900 now, with still more than a month to go! I got more work on the way too!
It's not mooching to harvest the hiker boxes and the food left in shelters. If people don't pick it up quickly, much of it simply gets thrown away. This is especially true of food left in shelters, which is subject to marauding squirrels and mice -- and maintainers, which in Maine at least are instructed to pack out everything left in shelters.
Weary
After moving out west and then coming back to the eastcoast for awhile and also observing news channel debates, I have noticed this occurring frequently, especially in the northeastern U.S., even sometimes here on WB. Folks are so intent on making their next comments they fail to listen/heed/take in/pay attention to what others are fully saying first.
I'm guilty of doing this too! I'm still trying to completely break myself of this habit.
ATSeamstress
02-20-2010, 23:03
Given that you have increased your cash supply by about $400 since you first posted and you have have been willing to listen and filter through all the advice given, I'd say that shows a commitment that most others who want to do the trail on limited funds lack. Where you have all your gear that helps a lot and you have already planned on transportation to and from the trail. I'd say your chances of completing a thru hike are looking better and better. Good luck.
I'll second that! Also you mentioned leaving either mid-March or mid-April. Something to think about, if you choose mid-April, not only do you have an extra month to save, you decrease your chances of encountering a late snow storm that will strand you in town for a day or two ($) or in a shelter wasting precious food supply.
I'd say with $900, gear and rides already covered, and a few food drops from family and friends that you mentioned, things are looking good! I hope you will check in on Whiteblaze from time to time and let us know how you are doing.
It isn't all that clear exactly who the real moochers are in life.
It isn't all that clear exactly who the real moochers are in life.
A very wise comment. But among the candidates might be those who love trails, and use trails, but who do not contribute either through their dollars, their labor, or their wisdom to the creation and maintenance of those trails, and the protected places that trails need to exist.
Weary
Well there is an aweful lot of power politics involved in that sort of thing.
But I here you.
.....But among the candidates might be those who love trails, and use trails, but who do not contribute either through their dollars, their labor, or their wisdom to the creation and maintenance of those trails, and the protected places that trails need to exist. - Weary
Careful Weary. You might be suggesting people contribute, share, take some of the focus off themselves, get rid of the it's all about me me me gimme gimme gimme take take take I gotta get mine attitude. Some get highly offended when suggesting such pie in the sky concepts. You might be accused of lecturing, making rules, forcing your beliefs on others, or trying to make others think like you.
Jester2000
02-21-2010, 02:40
You might be suggesting people contribute, share, take some of the focus off themselves, get rid of the it's all about me me me . . .
No, I think it's compatible. It is all about me. And because I love trails, everyone should contribute to them in whatever way they can. Trust me, things will be a lot better once everyone realizes we're living in a Jester-centric world.
The Old Fhart
02-21-2010, 09:54
Jester2000-"...Trust me, things will be a lot better once everyone realizes we're living in a Jester-centric world."Interesting Jestaposition of words.:p
Alot of people have different views on how land should be developed,
or left reasonably primitive and undeveloped. It is a complicated matter.
Only the land has the wisdom, but cannot vote, or raise money.
Alot of people have different views on how land should be developed,
or left reasonably primitive and undeveloped. It is a complicated matter.
Only the land has the wisdom, but cannot vote, or raise money.
That's why we all need to ponder the land issues, think rationally, make decisions -- and then do more than just talk.
thesimplelife
02-21-2010, 20:33
im in the same boat as you man but im just gonna get out there and see what happens. i have estimated i will have around a 1000 dollars at the most.
Spirit Walker
02-21-2010, 20:50
If you do make it all the way on $1000, I really hope you'll come back and tell us what the experience was like. If you don't make it all the way, I also hope you'll come back and tell us what happened.
If you do make it all the way on $1000, I really hope you'll come back and tell us what the experience was like. If you don't make it all the way, I also hope you'll come back and tell us what happened.
And regardless of whether you make it all the way, try to experience each day as something to be cherished -- not as something to be gotten through. Whether you stay on the trail for a month or six months, try to enjoy the experience every day. That way no matter how or when you decide to stop, you will have achieved something few others ever do.
I once told a friend about a mutual acquaintance that had "only" managed to hike 600 miles. "Wow," he said, "there's nothing wrong with that. I wish I could walk that far."
Weary
I see alot of people doing alot more than just talking.
The problem is that I don't see much pondering.
Jack Tarlin
02-22-2010, 19:59
I see a lot of folks who've never thru-hiked and in all likeihood never will telling people what they need to do, what they need to do without, how they can do it, etc.
"Here's what you need to do to complete it on a budget...." says so and so.
What I DON'T see here is anyone who's done a complete hike on a thousand or 1200 bucks telling people how it can actually be accomplished.
For those of you telling newbies how easy it is to thru-hike with essentially no money, please tell us the following:
*Tell us how your accomplished this feat.
*Then tell us WHEN you did.
This should cut down on some posting, absolutely. :D
Cuz right now I see a lot of folks just talking.
stunt man
02-23-2010, 05:29
you said ur up to 900 now with more work coming... if ur really worried about having enough money, maybe consider a later starting date to give u more time to save... maybe just a couple weeks later... could be the difference between 1000 and 1500.
not sure what work ur doing but if u are really determined (sounds like u are) do whatever it takes to get work... put up signs in grocery stores or gas stations or the local library stating that ur looking for labor work, shovel snow, cut firewood, scooping granny seamores dog ***** out of her backyard... anything it takes. or check out craigslist.com for work or post a free add on there stating ur looking for work and are willing to do just about anything to fund ur dream. if u are determined enough u will make it happen. best of luck following ur dreams!
stunt man
02-23-2010, 05:50
.... also dont forget about selling stuff. if u have some stuff in ur house u dont need anymore... sell it. clean out the garage and get rid of stuff...maybe some sports equiptment, an old weight bench, or electronics that u dont really use anymore... heck if u can get 50 bucks for a tv thats sitting in the basement collecting dust, that could be another X amount of days more on the trail... just a thought.
Appalachian Tater
02-23-2010, 16:46
Jack, I'm sure if I could find a pack big enough, I could do a thruhike for about $600.
All I would need is 150 pounds of rice, 100 pounds of lentils, 50 pounds each of oatmeal and cornmeal, and there would be enough money left over for salt, pepper, and about 30 pounds of sugar and 300 tea bags. I wouldn't even have to go into town to resupply which would save a lot of time and reduce the cost even more.
Jack, I'm sure if I could find a pack big enough, I could do a thruhike for about $600.
All I would need is 150 pounds of rice, 100 pounds of lentils, 50 pounds each of oatmeal and cornmeal, and there would be enough money left over for salt, pepper, and about 30 pounds of sugar and 300 tea bags. I wouldn't even have to go into town to resupply which would save a lot of time and reduce the cost even more.
I would recommend slightly lower quantities: Say 2# pasta, 3# rice, 1# lentils, 5# oats, 1# brown sugar, 1# vegetable oil. Resupply once a week.
Maximum food pack weight 13 pounds. Total cost about $15, enough to supply about 3,000 calories a day for a week. Total food cost for a 4 month thru hike $240, or less than half of the cost of our goal of a $500 thru hike. The difference might be made up in a supply of Snickers, and an occasional town stop at restaurants with pizza and an all you can eat salad bar.
Weary
Appalachian Tater
02-23-2010, 19:20
I would recommend slightly lower quantities: Say 2# pasta, 3# rice, 1# lentils, 5# oats, 1# brown sugar, 1# vegetable oil. Resupply once a week.
Maximum food pack weight 13 pounds. Total cost about $15, enough to supply about 3,000 calories a day for a week. Total food cost for a 4 month thru hike $240, or less than half of the cost of our goal of a $500 thru hike. The difference might be made up in a supply of Snickers, and an occasional town stop at restaurants with pizza and an all you can eat salad bar.
Weary
No Weary, that wouldn't work because you would be tempted to spend money in town and wouldn't get the savings from buying the 50# bags.:rolleyes:
I see a lot of folks who've never thru-hiked and in all likeihood never will telling people what they need to do, what they need to do without, how they can do it, etc.
"Here's what you need to do to complete it on a budget...." says so and so.
What I DON'T see here is anyone who's done a complete hike on a thousand or 1200 bucks telling people how it can actually be accomplished.
For those of you telling newbies how easy it is to thru-hike with essentially no money, please tell us the following:
*Tell us how your accomplished this feat.
*Then tell us WHEN you did.
This should cut down on some posting, absolutely. :D
Cuz right now I see a lot of folks just talking.
Yeah, it can be done, I did it on approx $600 four years ago. (food cost=$400, travel=$200, already had gear) I didn't mooch off anyone, and I only raided boxes 3 times. If you consider all the 100mph tape I gave out...I gave more than I received from other hikers. A few notes on how I did it:
*Even though I only spent $600, I actually had around $1700 or so at my disposal. I'm not gonna lie...that's way different than ONLY having $600.
*It took me 135 days. April-August nobo.
*Except for supermarket trips, I never went into town. That's 135 in a tent, and 135 sponge-baths. Do not underestimate the temptation of going into town and being clean and well-rested. That took all the discipline I had.
*I'm a former army ranger, so I'm both disciplined and mentally prepared to handle the adverse conditions and discomfort. Of which there were a lot. $600 trip = precious little comfort.
*I ate little outside of oats, lentils, peanut-butter, and multi-vitamins, and my "good" meals were the four boxes of MRE's I mail-dropped along the trail. Got most of my food from feed stores in Ga. I ate like a horse (literally).
*Because I ate oats and lentils and peanut-butter, my pack was around 40-45lbs and it didn't matter how tired I was at the end of the day, I still had to set up my campsite and make dinner. The fun of that wears off in about 4 days, or immediately after your gear is soaked.
*I didn't really make many friends on the trail, because I simply never saw the same people often enough. I'd hike with someone for a day or two, and then they'd go into town or whatever while I moved it on down the trail.
*So yeah...it's totally possible to do a thru for under $1K and not mooch. And I would definitely not recommend it unless you're ok with being hungry, weary, uncomfortable, and frazzled for 5 months. And that's if you're lucky.
**I'm going to do it again next May, and this time I'm going to spend $2000-$2500 and actually enjoy the experience for the trip, not the challenge.
Yeah, it can be done, I did it on approx $600 four years ago. (food cost=$400, travel=$200, already had gear) I didn't mooch off anyone, and I only raided boxes 3 times. If you consider all the 100mph tape I gave out...I gave more than I received from other hikers. A few notes on how I did it:
*Even though I only spent $600, I actually had around $1700 or so at my disposal. I'm not gonna lie...that's way different than ONLY having $600.
*It took me 135 days. April-August nobo.
*Except for supermarket trips, I never went into town. That's 135 in a tent, and 135 sponge-baths. Do not underestimate the temptation of going into town and being clean and well-rested. That took all the discipline I had.
*I'm a former army ranger, so I'm both disciplined and mentally prepared to handle the adverse conditions and discomfort. Of which there were a lot. $600 trip = precious little comfort.
*I ate little outside of oats, lentils, peanut-butter, and multi-vitamins, and my "good" meals were the four boxes of MRE's I mail-dropped along the trail. Got most of my food from feed stores in Ga. I ate like a horse (literally).
*Because I ate oats and lentils and peanut-butter, my pack was around 40-45lbs and it didn't matter how tired I was at the end of the day, I still had to set up my campsite and make dinner. The fun of that wears off in about 4 days, or immediately after your gear is soaked.
*I didn't really make many friends on the trail, because I simply never saw the same people often enough. I'd hike with someone for a day or two, and then they'd go into town or whatever while I moved it on down the trail.
*So yeah...it's totally possible to do a thru for under $1K and not mooch. And I would definitely not recommend it unless you're ok with being hungry, weary, uncomfortable, and frazzled for 5 months. And that's if you're lucky.
**I'm going to do it again next May, and this time I'm going to spend $2000-$2500 and actually enjoy the experience for the trip, not the challenge.
No offense, but that sounds like an awful time. Kudos to you for making it though, and good luck next year.
BobTheBuilder
10-12-2010, 17:28
I've met several thrus on my section hikes, and the one thing that most seem to have in common is a real fascination and enjoyment of their food. Cooking it, eating it, and talking about it seem to be pretty common activities every evening.
Understandable, give their calorie burn, but it seems like a oats-and-powdered milk hiker is going to be pretty miserable watching the rest of the thrus eat mac and cheese, or Little Debbies, or whatever.
Go for it, but I would put an 'egg' on the side to hang on to for getting home, or a general emergency, like $200 bucks or something, maybe in an account with a debit card. If you run out, or get into a major situation like an illness or injury, you're not going thru the stress of getting out of your situation broke :) Hope it works out for you!
Pedaling Fool
10-12-2010, 17:54
I'm up to $900 now, with still more than a month to go! I got more work on the way too!
This is the last post on this thread by the OP. I wonder how he did on his thru:)
cickle_cila
11-16-2010, 22:57
am a new prospective thru i am also heading out in about mid march! what is nobo
on_the_GOEZ
11-16-2010, 23:17
am a new prospective thru i am also heading out in about mid march! what is nobo
NOBO = northbound (from Georgia) SOBO = southbound (from maine). For basic questions i would consult the ATC website. most of the stuff in these forums is specific. Im heading SOBO in June (with more than a couple hundred $ 8)) Hope to see you out there!
better hit the hiker boxes for food. Forget eating in any restaurant. Try to get close to 2,000$ and you can get all the food you want and some drink/hostels, but still stay out of any hotel.
I don't know why anyone attempting a thru would stay at a hotel; it still boggles my mind. Even if you're nursing an injury a lot of hostels would understand and let you stay, especially if you helped out with chores and such.
I don't know why anyone attempting a thru would stay at a hotel; it still boggles my mind. Even if you're nursing an injury a lot of hostels would understand and let you stay, especially if you helped out with chores and such.
I plan on getting a motel probably once a month on my hike. Its always nice to get a room all to yourself every once in a while. I wouldn't spend anymore than $40. There is no reason to stay in a HOTEL, though.
Mizirlou
11-17-2010, 13:35
I'm comfortable with being uncomfortable and can find joy in just about anything. As long as I can eat, I can hike. We'll see how far I get.
Highside, the original poster, is way ahead of most whether he finishes his thru or not. Dude hasn't posted in awhile and this thread went off on a side trail . . .
home_less
11-17-2010, 14:06
How do you survive from day to day now? You do not mention how much money you spend on food or a place to sleep. Sounds like you mooch off of others already. Are you proud to take handouts from others? The AT is already full of moochers like you who live off of other people - people who have earned money to pay for food, shelter, etc. Raiding hiker boxes, asking for rides & not offering to hep pay for gas is the same as begging. Get a life of your own. I'm not ashamed to admit I'm homeless - by choice. I live off of my retirement. My advice to you is to get a job & a life & leave thru hiking to those who have earned the opportunity & want to enjoy getting away (from moochers).
No offense, but that sounds like an awful time. Kudos to you for making it though, and good luck next year.
Probably the most honest and accurate answer on doing a thru-hike on the cheap, though.
(It can be done..but it sucked so bad I am doing it again with more money!!! )
Mizirlou
11-17-2010, 17:11
How do you survive from day to day now? You do not mention how much money you spend on food or a place to sleep. Sounds like you mooch off of others already. Are you proud to take handouts from others? The AT is already full of moochers like you who live off of other people - people who have earned money to pay for food, shelter, etc. Raiding hiker boxes, asking for rides & not offering to hep pay for gas is the same as begging. Get a life of your own. I'm not ashamed to admit I'm homeless - by choice. I live off of my retirement. My advice to you is to get a job & a life & leave thru hiking to those who have earned the opportunity & want to enjoy getting away (from moochers).
Highside didn’t say he was homeless, but he did say he was financially un-endowed. It started a firestorm cuz hikers, service providers and communities along the trail have experienced the blight these types bring. But I gotta say:
a) There’s a homeless elderly guy who lives in his veh at the southern end of the AT. Pleasant as all get-out, never begs, minds his own bees wax; he just likes being around hikers. Moves his vehicular home from trail head to trail head, only leaves long enough to cash his SS check & resupply in town. No problems reported. Homeless by choice.
b) There’s a whole new generation of combat vets and some choose to drop off the grid. Any one of them hits the jackpot with me any time, any place. I met one on the trail. He didn’t ask but he received.
So it depends.
I’d sure hate to do a smack down and later learn the guy had been in a firefight in a foreign country while I’d been leisurely hiking the AT and yakking on WhiteBlaze.
Trailbender
11-17-2010, 19:09
How do you survive from day to day now? You do not mention how much money you spend on food or a place to sleep. Sounds like you mooch off of others already. Are you proud to take handouts from others? The AT is already full of moochers like you who live off of other people - people who have earned money to pay for food, shelter, etc. Raiding hiker boxes, asking for rides & not offering to hep pay for gas is the same as begging. Get a life of your own. I'm not ashamed to admit I'm homeless - by choice. I live off of my retirement. My advice to you is to get a job & a life & leave thru hiking to those who have earned the opportunity & want to enjoy getting away (from moochers).
This is a typical post from someone brainwashed with the ideals of capitalism. There are no "moochers". Food is a human right. I don't compare myself to people who have more or less, and we are all human. Just because I or someone else has green paper in our pockets does not make us better than a "moocher" or however you want to call it. Live on the trail, and be free from society's bs.
The cheapest possible thru-hike? Huh? It's like trying to answer the question, "what's the cheapest possible car that I can buy?" Well, have you figured in comfortability, dependability, other factors, etc
flemdawg1
11-18-2010, 13:17
This is a typical post from someone brainwashed with the ideals of capitalism. There are no "moochers". Food is a human right. I don't compare myself to people who have more or less, and we are all human. Just because I or someone else has green paper in our pockets does not make us better than a "moocher" or however you want to call it. Live on the trail, and be free from society's bs.
Sorry, food is not a human right. Most food is raised by other human beings, and being hungry does not give you permission, legal or otherwise, to steal another's labor or property.
Blissful
11-18-2010, 13:21
There is no reason to stay in a HOTEL, though.
So much for the Doyle then in Duncannon...
:eek:
home_less
11-18-2010, 18:49
I never said the person was homeless - I said I was. I merely asked how he/she survives from day to day now - pay rent? mortgage? live at home (rent free)? All adults have (or should have) day to day expenses to eat, shelter, etc. The money spent from day to day before going on a hike ca be transferred to being spent while on a hike - maybe even spend less money on the trail. Nobody can post anything on WB w/out some SOB having something negative to say! I choose to be home less (thus my name "homeless." I beg your pardon but there are "moochers" on the AT. Moochers ask for food, free rides (gas cost money), etc too often to ignore. If a "trail angel" offers it, OK; if you have to beg for it, you're a moocher...
home_less
11-18-2010, 18:55
hiker boxes are not designed to be raided by 1 person to survive on for an entire thru hike. typical of moochers though. i've had moochers flat out demand that i give them stuff just cause i had it & they wanted it - regardless of how hard or long i worked for it...
home_less
11-18-2010, 18:57
moochers have caused irrepairable damage to some businesses that used to cater to hikers & have turned some away from being trail angels - don't believe me? ask experienced long distance hikers...
Trailbender
11-18-2010, 19:02
Sorry, food is not a human right. Most food is raised by other human beings, and being hungry does not give you permission, legal or otherwise, to steal another's labor or property.
It is not stealing, and as for being a human right, google "right to food". We have much in this land of plenty, and there is no excuse for anyone to go hungry, or not have medical care, for that matter.
mweinstone
11-18-2010, 19:47
i will tell you the cheapest way to hike the trail if you send me one dollar at the addres shown below.
or, you may have this free list of how to do it"
any shoes
empty can to cook and drink and eat out of.
old blanket or two
any plastic sheeting found to tarptent and as pack and as sock covers and as raincoat
heavy loose clothing of any type
string or cord of any type
any knife even butter knife
matches
any candle
toilet paper optional.
now take any food you have and hitch to georgia or maine. begin hiking from hiker to hiker, from hiker box to hiker box takeing only a single fare share from the boxes and only ever asking to take food folks have anounced they are giveing away, and dont mooch or become known as a broke guy. be respectful and offer work for stay or food when appropriate. forage and hunt and fish within the law.
flemdawg1
11-19-2010, 11:37
It is not stealing, and as for being a human right, google "right to food". We have much in this land of plenty, and there is no excuse for anyone to go hungry, or not have medical care, for that matter.
Egg-xactly, its called getting a job. I don't owe you squat, be it a lunch or an aspirin and neither does the gov't.
BTW, I'm on the governing committee for, give money to and volunteer @ a food bank. I also sponsor a child thru World Vision and spent a week's vacation volunteering in Mexico working at an ophanage and ditributing food in some of the poorest places of that country. Just letting you know that before you get all harumphed thinking I don't have any compassion.
So much for the Doyle then in Duncannon...
:eek:
Well, that place is different. Its a Motel Hotel.
jersey joe
11-19-2010, 12:56
What I DON'T see here is anyone who's done a complete hike on a thousand or 1200 bucks telling people how it can actually be accomplished.
*Tell us how your accomplished this feat.
*Then tell us WHEN you did.
This should cut down on some posting, absolutely. :D
Cuz right now I see a lot of folks just talking.
Radex has me beat with his $600 thru hike.
My thru hike cost around $1000. I had most of my gear(most of it was very heavy) and was fortunate to have a free ride to and from the trail ends from family.
Keys for keeping it cheap were:
Keep the hike short, I averaged 20mpd. The less time out there the less you'll spend.
Limit your zeros in town. I had zero zero days.
Unlike Radex, if I were to thru hike again, I'd probably want to try to do it even cheaper. Spend all of my nights in my tent and shorten the hike even more.
Tenderheart
11-19-2010, 12:59
I have no idea how much I spent in 2000. But in 2011, I will set the record for the cheapest thru hike ever. I am a true minimalist in every sense of the word. I live my life very simply and actually prefer it that way. To each his own. I never feel deprived of things others have or want. It's just not my style to own or do a lot of expensive things. All my hobbies and needs are inexpensive. Life ain't a contest. Just my 2 cents.
litefoot 2000
A walking vacation is inherently an inexpensive vacation. But there are only two ways to further minimize costs.
1.Avoid towns and the things towns have to offer, expensive overnight accomodations and restaurant meals.
2. Avoid also convenience foods for eating on the trail. Think generics. Assemble your own meals from generic oatmeal, rice, powdered milk, and the like.
The calories needed for a thru hike can be purchased for a few hundred dollars. The will power needed for cooking over wood and and putting up with longer cook times is both free -- and rare.
Equally rare is the ability to ignore new trail friends when they take zero days in every town and go out for big restaurant meals.
Weary
Trailbender
11-19-2010, 18:38
Egg-xactly, its called getting a job. I don't owe you squat, be it a lunch or an aspirin and neither does the gov't.
BTW, I'm on the governing committee for, give money to and volunteer @ a food bank. I also sponsor a child thru World Vision and spent a week's vacation volunteering in Mexico working at an ophanage and ditributing food in some of the poorest places of that country. Just letting you know that before you get all harumphed thinking I don't have any compassion.
Well, capitalism works by theft anyways, but most people don't think of it that way. If I make $8 an hour, and work 8 hours, but sell 500 dollars worth of product for my company that day, my excess labor is stolen. I have made $64 for that day before taxes, but my employer has made $436 profit off my labor. Shouldn't a person get some of that too? You hear all the time about CEO's getting millions in bonuses, but the main employees make jack, they should raise the pay on the lowest employees instead.
There are too many jobs out there that do not pay nearly enough to live on. If someone works 30-40 hours a week, they should be able to afford at least the basics, no matter the job, or something is wrong.
I don't have an issue if someone is rich, unless I see the lowest workers getting screwed over and the higher ups have more money than they know what to do with, that is a sure sign of stolen excess labor.
I don't hear anyone calling wealthy people moochers, but in fact they are, if they are robbing their employees.
Blue Jay
11-19-2010, 18:52
Hollywood, please hold back,:D don't get this one closed it's far too interesting.
Trailbender
11-19-2010, 19:53
Hollywood, please hold back,:D don't get this one closed it's far too interesting.
I only brought it up to show that people's definition of what a "moocher" is selectively doesn't include some people, and is illogical because of that.
flemdawg1
11-20-2010, 14:13
Oh goody, good ole wealth envy. Gee I saw this coming from a mile off.
Well, capitalism works by theft anyways, but most people don't think of it that way.
Yes that must be the reason the so-called poor in the US live better that 90% of the rest of the planet, we must ALL be criminals. Actually capitalism works by people coming to mutually beneficial agreements. (i.e.I have aluminum siding to sell (and $ to pay), you agree to sell it for $8/hour. Its win-win.) If one party feels cheated , that party is free to pursue an agreement with someone else. (i.e. I think you're a lazy employee, I can fire you and get a better one. Or if you think you can get a better payrate, you can renegotiate your pay, or go work for someone else. Again win-win.)
If I make $8 an hour, and work 8 hours, but sell 500 dollars worth of product for my company that day, my excess labor is stolen. I have made $64 for that day before taxes, but my employer has made $436 profit off my labor.
1. What you are selling is something that you do not own.
2. Your pay is negotiable, if you believe you are all that awesome of a salesman, ask for a raise.
3. The true cost of your employment is probably closer to twice what your pay is due to things such as the employer's SS payment, whatever the employers contribution is for your health plan, retirement, unemployment insurance, workman's comp, office supplies, etc.
4. I would think that if there is some competition for whatever you're marketing then your company's actual profit is probably closer to $40 for $500 of sales. Try reading your company's annual report, you'll see for yourself.
5. Your marketing of the product is only a small part of the actual cost. There's lots of other costs, raw materials, utilities, labor costs (besides you), overhead, etc.
Shouldn't a person get some of that too? You do, $8/hour. You hear all the time about CEO's getting millions in bonuses, but the main employees make jack, they should raise the pay on the lowest employees instead. In a capitalist society, scarcity determines value. A CEO worth is determined by his worth to the company, if he sucks at his job, he'll probably be fired. By the amount of whining I see (which I chalk up to ignorance of economics), I doubt you're CEO material.
There are too many jobs out there that do not pay nearly enough to live on. If someone works 30-40 hours a week, they should be able to afford at least the basics, no matter the job, or something is wrong. If you make a measily $16k/year ($8/hr*40hr/wk*52wks/yr)you are wealthier that 88% of the planet. Try being an unskilled laborer in just the next country south, you'd be lucky to get $40/week. However, not every job is meant to support a family, nor is that your employer's concern. He offered a job for 8/hr, you accepted, that's not his fault that you can't afford premium cable or buy a new car.
I don't have an issue if someone is rich, unless I see the lowest workers getting screwed over and the higher ups have more money than they know what to do with, that is a sure sign of stolen excess labor. Why do you believe your labor worth more tha 8/hour? The actual worth of something is only what someone else is willing to pay. (i.e. If I believe my house is worth $500k, but noone will buy it for that price, then I've just deluded myself.) Furthermore, who has made you God to decide what is too much $.
I don't hear anyone calling wealthy people moochers, but in fact they are, if they are robbing their employees. That's because they actually contribute to society (i.e. your salary, btw the richness 10% pay over 30% of the taxes.)
kayak karl
11-20-2010, 15:42
moochers have caused irrepairable damage to some businesses that used to cater to hikers & have turned some away from being trail angels - don't believe me? ask experienced long distance hikers...
found a new ip address to log in on LOL
A better question might be what is the most valuable experience one can take away from a through hike and how might we continue to make this kind of experience available to coming generations?
Hikers who focus excessively upon the financial aspects of though hikes fail to benefit as much as they might from them. On the other hand, those who don't focus enough upon the financial realities of through hikes don't finish them.
There is an excessive preoccupation with services and specific providers. While they may seem significant to the current crop of through hikers who benefit from them, they are not for the most part institutions that stand the test of time.
New providers of services appear on the scene and in time they are replaced by others. Those who have been around the A.T. long enough have seen many of these businesses come and go.
I am more concerned when organizations or individuals involved with the trail for many years consider changing their policies or withdrawing their participation altogether due to disrespectful behavior of a small minority of hikers.
Furthermore, I don't care for the terms trail magic and trail angel, both of which didn't exist until recently. I will be pleased when they are both dropped from the hiker lexicon.
4eyedbuzzard
11-20-2010, 16:50
I am more concerned when organizations or individuals involved with the trail for many years consider changing their policies or withdrawing their participation altogether due to disrespectful behavior of a small minority of hikers.
Furthermore, I don't care for the terms trail magic and trail angel, both of which didn't exist until recently. I will be pleased when they are both dropped from the hiker lexicon.
Regarding disrespectful / bad hikers, it's not just the AT. There are several 14K footers in the west located on or accessed from private land that have become difficult or impossible to get permission to climb due to inconsiderate hikers / climbers. Routes that were once open to the public have been posted and closed.
As to trail magic, I've heard the term used for many years. It isn't that recent. I'm pretty sure Frank and Victoria Logue (The Hawk and Dove) used it regarding their '88 thru. I'm not home, so I'm not near my hiking library to check, but I think Ed Garvey may even have used the term. So the phrase has been around a little while.
Trailbender
11-21-2010, 09:17
Oh goody, good ole wealth envy. Gee I saw this coming from a mile off.
Not really wealth envy, more a discontent with the injustices of society. Things like people going hungry or not having housing when apartments and houses sit vacant.
I am a minimalist, and do not believe in owning many things. Too many people in our brainwashed culture are a slave to their possessions.
As for being "rich" making 16k a year, you gotta compare cost of living to where you are. There is a town near me where renting a house is $300 a month, but there are no jobs or anything there. If someone is working hard, they should be able to afford decent housing, healthcare, good food, ect. Otherwise, they are slaves, and make a mockery of the very idea of freedom.
There is a growing rumble of discontent in this country of the poor seeing the rich mindlessly waste money, and they can barely afford to feed their kids, or choose between food or medicine. People are getting pissed off, and for good reason. I am not asking for a job bonus of a brand new Benz, and most people aren't, they just want to be paid well enough to live off of.
jersey joe
11-21-2010, 10:31
Furthermore, I don't care for the terms trail magic and trail angel, both of which didn't exist until recently. I will be pleased when they are both dropped from the hiker lexicon.
I couldn't disagree more. I never heard of trail magic until I was on my thru hike. I thought the concept of people helping people they didn't know and never met was fantastic. Hiking up to a road and finding a cooler full of ice and sodas after a 25 mile day is pretty cool.
In the context of this thread, trail magic should not be counted on to reduce the cost of a thru hike!
I couldn't disagree more. I never heard of trail magic until I was on my thru hike. I thought the concept of people helping people they didn't know and never met was fantastic. Hiking up to a road and finding a cooler full of ice and sodas after a 25 mile day is pretty cool.
In the context of this thread, trail magic should not be counted on to reduce the cost of a thru hike!
Obviously true. Trail magic occurs sporadically, usually, I find, when I least need it. I'm not so stubborn that I refuse a proffered cold beer, or a fresh cooked hot dog, but I continue to think is is terribly misplaced largess. In a society racked by poverty, hungry kids, and unemployment giving free food to folks on a six month walk seems a bit misplaced.
The term trail magic goes back at least as far as Ed Garvey in the 1970s. But then it meant the unexpected kindness of strangers one happens to meet, and the unexpected meetings among trail friends, not planned charity.
mweinstone
11-21-2010, 11:36
i could, if needed or choosen, walk out of this apt door naked here in philadelphia any time of day or year,..and hike to georgia and to maine and anywhere else for the rest of my life. the skillset is learned and practiced or its not. i happen to live it. i practice and have since birth. no bodys more enthusiastic about the crash of civilization thats coming than matthewski. no one. on that day i will finaly be free. you see folks your under the missguided impression that the future cant be seen or that death cant be avoided. what i know i cant tell. no one listens. been screeming this since ever and will till ever.our system cannot sustain itself or change or not kill us. it can stay bad and not change and kill us really well. and really soon. i am a casandra. i am a killjoy. sorry for that. point is, u know me. you have heard me say, we can all hike free and be nomadic hunter gatherers at the drop of a hat. only problem is all the folks that die who cant live like that. no ones leaveing gramps in the city and going hiking forever mat. i know . thats why were so doomed and have been some time now. just that some of us know how to live.hike the AT cheepest? yes, i beleive i could. with no money. and not by going any speed or eating less. just by haveing the widest range of people , each with skills in the right areas, yes, any group or soloist can. we all can do alot more, and alot better for ourselves than our jobs and familys and money.we might hike free.alll im sayin.
Rocket Jones
11-21-2010, 11:46
I guess I don't see trail magic as charity. How is it different than volunteering for shelter maintanence, trail work crews or caretaking? Seems like sour grapes to complain that someone isn't donating their personal time, money and effort in the way that you'd like them to.
Lone Wolf
11-21-2010, 11:49
I guess I don't see trail magic as charity. How is it different than volunteering for shelter maintanence, trail work crews or caretaking? Seems like sour grapes to complain that someone isn't donating their personal time, money and effort in the way that you'd like them to.
it's not NEEDED by hikers
Rocket Jones
11-21-2010, 11:56
it's not NEEDED by hikers
Not the point. How one spends their personal resources is their own business.
I guess I don't see trail magic as charity. How is it different than volunteering for shelter maintanence, trail work crews or caretaking? Seems like sour grapes to complain that someone isn't donating their personal time, money and effort in the way that you'd like them to.
The trail wouldn't exist without volunteer trail work and caretaking.
Trail magic has nothing to do with the trail. It just gives some hikers a free beer, can of coke, or food from time to time, and leads to an unreal expectation among some hikers.
Whether trail magic is charity or not, I'll leave to the individual givers and receivers to decide. I suspect that for some givers it's a way to vicariously to take part in the hiking experience without getting sweaty or having to make hard life decisions.
Whether trail magic is charity or not, I'll leave to the individual givers and receivers to decide. I suspect that for some givers it's a way to vicariously to take part in the hiking experience without getting sweaty or having to make hard life decisions.
Or perhaps like the high you get when you feed those feral cats?
No real good is being done (and perhaps some harm) but if it makes you feel good, who are others to say its not an act of kindness. Even if it is misdirected.
Or perhaps like the high you get when you feed those feral cats?
No real good is being done (and perhaps some harm) but if it makes you feel good, who are others to say its not an act of kindness. Even if it is misdirected.
Well, I fixed all my feral cats -- as an act of kindness, to me, if not to them. No. that bit of information doesn't apply to this discusssion.
jdavis7590
02-11-2016, 20:23
If you carry my pack for me I'll buy the beer.
+1 Best Comment
Traveler
02-12-2016, 08:11
Great zombie thread....
https://sp.yimg.com/xj/th?id=OIP.M763fb18867116ee00c66a6797ce4a64eo0&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300
Casey & Gina
02-12-2016, 14:44
Great zombie thread....
A lot of good reading, though! I rather enjoyed it.
Let's put this six year old thread back to sleep. :)