View Full Version : Mnt Hrdwr Ultralamina +15 degree sleeping bag...
chiefboo
02-14-2010, 16:24
So, I'm preparing for a through hike and took my new Ultralamina +15 bag backpacking in Pine Mountain. As many Georgians know we got a good bit of snow and some fairly cold temps. I was checking the temps regularly on weather.com via my cellphone so I could see how my bag was holding up. Bottom line..: I was freezing!!
It got down to 25 degrees minus temps lost due to elevation (approx. 850) and I ended up having to put on my middle-layer jacket and some pants over the thermals I was already wearing. I even tried to assume the fetal position (as best as one could in a mummy bag) and pulled on the draw strings to close up the head compartment. I blocked the opening with my clothing stuff sack which i was also using as my pillow.
Now I'm about 5'11" (last time I checked), but could be 6'. I opted for the long version just to be safe, but could this explain the cold I was feeling? Would the regular give me better results?
I plan to leave early April for the thru-hike on the AT so should I try to get the same brand and model but at the lower temp rating or will the bag I have hold up? Would you all recommend another bag all together?
Thanks for any responses I get.
Where you in a tent? Tarp?
What type of sleeping pad did you have?
As others have noted, it is not just the bag, you have to think of having a sleeping system.
chiefboo
02-14-2010, 17:23
Oh right. Sorry I forgot to mention that stuff...
I was in a mountaineering tent using a thermarest sleeping pad. I even had the rain fly on. I didn't unzip the vents at the top of the tent cause I thought I might lose heat that way (was this a bad choice? I did get condensation).
It was a REI Mountain 2 tent in case you all wanted to know..
Thanks.
Different sleeping pads will make some difference. That said I have the same bag and find that its comfort range to be in the low 40s. I don't find Mountain Hardwares rating to be very accurate.
It does sound like a bag problem. I tend to be very cold and have found that a better pad like the Therma rest deluxe foamhttp://www.rei.com/product/708523 helps as does a good down bag.
You can search this site for more opinions on bags & pads. Many people seem to like the new Neo Air.
You did the smart thing by testing it now.
It got down to 25 degrees minus temps lost due to elevation (approx. 850) and I ended up having to put on my middle-layer jacket and some pants over the thermals I was already wearing. I even tried to assume the fetal position (as best as one could in a mummy bag) and pulled on the draw strings to close up the head compartment. I blocked the opening with my clothing stuff sack which i was also using as my pillow.
Would you all recommend another bag all together?
Thanks for any responses I get.
but 25 degrees at 850 ft (?) isn't really that cold. i spent a lot of time on sleeping bag research and went with a Marmot 15 degree bag because they are one of the few US bag manufacturers that at least do standardized testing (EN rating). I have had it out in single digits this winter and have been comfortable in just a base layer(plus good exped pad and in a tent). In 35+ degree weather just boxers and tee-shirt are fine.
I don't generally buy the "best' (read;$$$) gear out there in all cases due to financial constraints but the bag is not an area to cut corners imo. This was worth every penny and it changed my mindset - I used to think I was a cold sleeper but now attribute that to my old bag and gear. It's worth alot to know that I will be able to sleep comfortably as opposed to "getting through the night". I am not saying that you need to buy Marmot, there are many threads on sleeping bags that you can search. I'm just saying I wouldn't be comfortable starting out knowing that I was uncomfortable at 25 degrees. You may get lucky with the weather but I wouldn't want to gamble on being lucky. Sleeping well is a key for me - I can get by on any kind of food as long as I'm getting calories but I struggle to enjoy myself without proper rest. again these are just my "opinions" and should not be as telling you what to do
Good luck.
A regular lenght is what you need. Less space inside the bag to heat up.
We were out on the Alabama Pinhoti Wednesday night. My hubby and I both have Marmot Pinnacle bags and Walmart blue pads. He's 6 foot and uses a long bag. In Anniston it was about 25 degrees, not sure the actual temp up on the trail. I slept cold, he slept hot. So I don't think the long should make a difference. And now I know I need some down booties :)
Props to you for testing out your cold gear now! I hope you're able to get everything squared away before your start!
Chaco Taco
02-14-2010, 18:51
Hmmm, I have used mine in low 20's and slept fine
chiefboo
02-14-2010, 18:56
Thanks for all the comments and replies! All of which are very helpful.
I'm pretty much a city-boy so I guess I'm just not used to the mountain weather + misleadingly (this a word?) rated bag.
I feel like I read somewhere that up in the north temps can get down to even the single digits in summer! So I guess I'll be looking for a new bag.
Thanks again!
Chaco Taco
02-14-2010, 18:59
Thanks for all the comments and replies! All of which are very helpful.
I'm pretty much a city-boy so I guess I'm just not used to the mountain weather + misleadingly (this a word?) rated bag.
I feel like I read somewhere that up in the north temps can get down to even the single digits in summer! So I guess I'll be looking for a new bag.
Thanks again!
If you have the cash, go Western Mountaineering.
The Northface Cats Meow is a pretty popular bag as well as the Marmot Helium. You should be fine with a 15 bag. It does get pretty cold in New Hampshire and Maine but you will figure it out.
chiefboo
02-14-2010, 19:02
Oh! While browsing for a new bag I remembered thinking that a bag liner would help keep it clean and a search showed that some are designed for extra warmth. How much of a help do you all think this could be?
We were out on the Alabama Pinhoti Wednesday night. My hubby and I both have Marmot Pinnacle bags and Walmart blue pads. He's 6 foot and uses a long bag. In Anniston it was about 25 degrees, not sure the actual temp up on the trail. I slept cold, he slept hot. So I don't think the long should make a difference. And now I know I need some down booties :)
Props to you for testing out your cold gear now! I hope you're able to get everything squared away before your start!
if I recall correctly they understand that women generally sleep "colder" than men do. So a 25 degree bag for a man, assuming it's a real measurement and not a bogus manufacturer's claim, may be a 35 degree bag for a woman (not sure of the exact math on this but there is plenty of information available. Or if you kept the original tags, check them) unless you have a woman's specific bag which should be rated accordingly.
Similar to the experience of your husband and Chaco Taco, this bag is very comfortable for me at 25 degrees.
I'm pretty much a city-boy so I guess I'm just not used to the mountain weather + misleadingly (this a word?) rated bag.
I feel like I read somewhere that up in the north temps can get down to even the single digits in summer! So I guess I'll be looking for a new bag.
Thanks again!
being a city-boy is not terminal (as long as you admit you have a problem there is always hope:)). You are doing well by testing and research.
As far as liners, I like them and believe they help but aren't enough of a boost imo to really upgrade a bag in a big way - in other words, getting a liner probably wouldn't have kept you from putting on the extra layers in your last outing.Others may think differently.
Well it looks like you are willing to spend some money on a nice sleeping bag. Some for the best band for your buck sleeping bags are marmot. They have a 850 fill line that is $$$ and 800 fill for $$ and a 600 fill series$
check out the "never summer" 0* 3 lbs 9 oz but about half the price of slightly lighter bags.
and
"sawtooth" 15*
I have spent the night in bags from many big name brands and from what I have seen is that while other bags might be cheaper or liter, but Marmot seams to be the warmest compared to their temp ratings.
Well good luck
I'll throw in another vote for Marmot. Their bags are a great bag for the buck and temp rating seem very accurate. If you can qualify for a pro deal they are a steal!
Snowleopard
02-14-2010, 20:43
I feel like I read somewhere that up in the north temps can get down to even the single digits in summer! So I guess I'll be looking for a new bag.
It won't get to single digits up here in the summer. Usually a 20F bag is good until it's well into the fall. Record low temp on top of Mt. Washington for Aug. is 20F and for Sept. is 9F. Where you'll be camping won't be that cold.
http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/normals.php
I'm not sure how cold it will be in the south when you start, but a bag that is good to single digits would probably be too warm for most of the trip.
Maybe it was colder than you think where you were camping, especially if the temp you were checking was for a city.
chiefboo
02-14-2010, 22:31
From what tuswm and aggieal are saying I should forget about synthetics and stick to down, but I'm so paranoid about getting it wet (like should I loose my balance while crossing a body of water). Is this an unjustified worry or should I stick to my gut?
Chaco Taco
02-14-2010, 22:46
From what tuswm and aggieal are saying I should forget about synthetics and stick to down, but I'm so paranoid about getting it wet (like should I loose my balance while crossing a body of water). Is this an unjustified worry or should I stick to my gut?
Contractor grade trash bag! You will be fine. Down is a good choices
chiefboo
02-14-2010, 22:55
Wouldn't a trash bag trap in any condensation that accumulated on the bag over night? I guess a sea to summit dry sack would be better right? Since downs are so sensitive to moisture.
There's a few things that I do to try to stay warm.
Ventilate well if not using a vapor barrier.
Use a vapor barrier when possible. Anything from bread bags over the feet to legs in a trash bag are economical, and are materials you may already have for other purposes.
Elevate legs. Putting the backpack under the legs do this well.
Wear a beenie or something like it to bed.
Do not breathe into the bag.
Eat well before going to sleep. This is the most important to me. I can get extremely cold in warm sleeping systems if I don't have the energy to stoke my internal furnace.
If it's cold enough to challenge the warmth of my sleeping bag, I'll stuff extra puffy clothing over my feet and upper chest. I may also stick additional less-compressible clothing beneath me, but outside of my sleeping bag.
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In short, give yourself the energy to stay warm, separate yourself from the ground, don't let moisture make you colder.
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One issue I'm dealing with is that I'm usually very hot when I first go to bed. I'm not ventilating enough, which is causing me to put a lot of moisture (sweat) into my bag. I may be forced to resort to using a full vapor barrier system if I continue to fail at mitigating this problem.
Pick a better campsite. Sleeping on thick forest duff is much better than sleeping on a hard trail or a slab of rock.
Take time during the day to dry your sleeping system. It will have plenty of moisture in it from sweating.
And..... In my experience the marmot bags are the largest around the upper body area so if I needed to I could wear a down jacket with out compressing it.
also if your bag gets damp you can hang it up while you are packing up or setting up camp. I usualy do that anyways to let it loft at night and let it air out in the morning.
I have noticed that if I stay in a selter even when it not windy I am much colder then if I sleep on the ground in a tent...........Is that just me? am I wrong? Or is there actualy something to that? Even solo in my TTDR with TONs of ventilation?
Rocket Jones
02-14-2010, 23:35
Wouldn't a trash bag trap in any condensation that accumulated on the bag over night? I guess a sea to summit dry sack would be better right? Since downs are so sensitive to moisture.
I think Chaco meant to keep your sleeping bag in a contractor grade trash bag inside your pack, just in case you fall into the water or something.
I have noticed that if I stay in a selter even when it not windy I am much colder then if I sleep on the ground in a tent...........Is that just me? am I wrong? Or is there actualy something to that? Even solo in my TTDR with TONs of ventilation?
Is the tent also in the shelter?
chiefboo
02-15-2010, 00:07
...also if your bag gets damp you can hang it up while you are packing up or setting up camp. I usualy do that anyways to let it loft at night and let it air out in the morning.
cool. i'm thinking about getting the marmot pinnacle +15 bag. i'd love to kno what rating trixie's husband's bag was and if you guys have been happy with it overall.
thanks again for all the replies everyone!:banana
cool. i'm thinking about getting the marmot pinnacle +15 bag. i'd love to kno what rating trixie's husband's bag was and if you guys have been happy with it overall.
thanks again for all the replies everyone!:banana
I have no problems recommending it to others. BTW, I'm 6 foot and like the long version.again, unless you are in a big hurry,use the search function...many good threads on this topic. Plenty of good options and if you shop a little bit you may strech your $ a little farther (although i have found that the very high end bags aren't usually discounted much, if at all).
WILLIAM HAYES
02-15-2010, 01:33
as an aside grew up in columbus actually my high school trip was to callaway gardens -bag ratings are all over the place i have found western mountaineering and marmot to be on the money pretty much with their ratings .some people are cold sleepers others are hot sleepers . I am a cold sleeper and use a regular size marmot helium EQ rated at 15 degrees I am 6ft 190 and find that I can sleep comfortably below the 15 degree rating in capilene 3 baselayers a fleece hat and wool socks you may want to buy a different bag marmot and Western mt are expensive but worth the money
cool. i'm thinking about getting the marmot pinnacle +15 bag. i'd love to kno what rating trixie's husband's bag was and if you guys have been happy with it overall.
thanks again for all the replies everyone!:banana
Well I have a never summer its 600 fill 0* and my girl friend has the marmot angel fire(womens version of the saw tooth) long 600 fill and they sip togeather MUCH better then any other mummy bags we have tried. They are great bags.
Jester2000
02-15-2010, 02:22
I have found Mountain Hardwear bags to be relatively accurate. For me. And they do have EN ratings for their bags (this is gradually becoming standard). The EN T-Limit for this bag is 19 degrees.
In theory, this means that 19 degrees is the lowest outside air temperature at which a “standard” man (whoever the hell that is) can sleep comfortably in this bag.
You were cold at 25 degrees. So let's say that the long bag wasn't the right fit (and that does matter, quite a bit). And lets say you sleep a little colder than the EN rating's "standard" man.
What to do about it? Well, first, you want to be careful about where you camp when it's cold. Not in valleys, and not near water.
Second, think about having your bag for the whole trip. You'll be in PA in July. It won't be 19 degrees at night. It won't even be close. You can go for a bag with a lower T-Limit, or lower degree rating, or you can adjust the other stuff around the bag for when it's cold. I would definitely get the right size, though. A better insulated pad, or even two pads for the first few weeks (we're talking April here -- you won't have to carry them for long) is an option. Definitely a hat and balaclava if you weren't already wearing those. Down booties. A liner. Bring a Nalgene, and be prepared to boil water to make a hot water bottle. Eat foods with high fat content before going to bed. Make sure to pee before sleeping as well.
There are a lot of things you can do to sleep warmer when you need to. An Ultralamina is synthetic -- you can even VB yourself with a trash bag; the insulation will still work with the condensation.
If you've got the money to throw around, then yeah, I suppose you could buy a zero degree bag. But if you do, make sure it fits. And switch to the Ultralamina when it gets warmer.
Good luck with your hike!
It takes a lot of moisture from your body for down bags to begin to lose loft. If you own one, when you get up, right away roll the bag from the botttom to the top, getting most of the air out. This at least gets your moisture out from over night. Air the bag on a break if the sun is out. Don't let it fly away thou, anchor it. Mostly not needed, only when really cold, and/or you have a lot of condensation overnight. I love down, and have never gotten my bag wet. Common sense precautions with any type bag should remove that possibility. Garbage bag, dry sack, etc.
Liners don't work for me, I am flippy floppy side sleeper. May work for you, but I think an overall warmer bag is best choice.
I never want to be cold at night, so I simply carry an overwarm bag. I quilt it or sleep on top of it, down is very forgiving temp wise.
good luck.