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sprocket
09-26-2004, 14:51
Hi all, I'm new here and this is my first post. Five years ago, I read Bill Bryson's book "A Walk in the Woods" and realized just how much I missed all the extended hiking and camping I'd done in my "youth". I decided then and there to plan a through hike for 2005 (This being 1999 or so) as I just got the news my wife was preganent w/ our first child. Now, it's 5 years later, spring's gonna be here soon and I've been dropping hints to my daughter that "Dad's gonna go hiking for a while". She starts crying and gets extremely emotional and "clingy". I sort of feel selfish as she has been camping and hiking with me before, yet she doesn't understand that this is too large and arduous an undertaking to include her in at her age. So....I guess my question here is three fold:

1)Has anyone here through hiked having left young(er) children behind, and if so...what did you tell them?

2)How did they take it? Was there substantial problems back home due to you not being around...ie: emotional problems, fear from child that "You'll get eaten by bears" (I've got that one already:) ) etc...

....And finally, more a general question to all:
3) Am I being as selfish or as negligent as a parent (as I sorta feel) that I've planned this trip for years to do before my 30's, but now I have a young child and should I postpone this trip till she's "X" years old? X being age what?

Would really appreciate any and all advice.....and what a great resource this place is for potential 2000 milers like myself!....

Frosty
09-26-2004, 15:05
This is a very personal decision, but here's my two cents anyway.

I haven't left a child to hike, but I had a couple years where I was on the road frequently for my job. My two year old son would start crying when he saw my suitcase. It really tore me up, because he could cry and beg me not to go.

My wife told me that after I left he was fine, and once I left the house then came back and peeked in the window five minutes later. He was playing and laughing. My wife said he always calmed right down right after I left, but I guess I had to see it to believe it.

Kids are resilient and do not have the sense of time that adults have.

I guess I'm saying that the separation will be harder on you than it would be on her. If you arrange to see her a few times while you are hiking, it will ease your guilt a lot, but will probably be tougher on her, as you will be leaving her again.

I am only speaking from my experience with my son, so none of this may apply to you.

sprocket
09-26-2004, 15:12
Frosty, that's about as poignant-sp? and right on target a response as I could ask for....your right on the money, IMO,....I feel more guilty 'bout leaving than anything....

It is good to hear that your little one seems to have adjusted pretty quickly though, and that goesa long way to helping me decide...
Anyone else have some advice?.....and thanks again.

A-Train
09-26-2004, 15:28
I just read a bit of AWOL's journal from 03 on Trailjournals.com Noticed he had 3 young daughters and a wife. He writes a good amount about leaving his family, you might wanna check that out. You could also try emailing him. Good luck

orangebug
09-26-2004, 15:46
You are dealing with a 5 year old who is dealing with seperation anxiety as school or kindergarden starts. She is going to be quite frightened. Have you done some weekend and/or sections to try this out and to let her see that you return? Have you plans to call and talk to her and your wife?

A thru hike, like a section hike, is selfish in that you will take yourself away from the family and will spend time and money on yourself. That is reality - get over it. You need to figure out why you need to do this selfish thing. Does it help recharge your batteries or do other quality time things with your family? There is no good age to leave her, although younger might have created less obvious seperation anxiety.

There are some hikers who deal with this in a variety of ways. For instance, One-leg has had his family almost accompany him in a camper. Phone calls, visits, brief returns home and such may work for you.

If your daughter has been to preschool or kindergarden yet, she has friends whose parents have divorced or seperated. She will anticipate that your departure actually is permanent. Expect re-entry to be a challenge, as your wife and daughter will compete for your attention - if you are lucky.

Bill...

sprocket
09-26-2004, 16:32
Orangebug, Yeah, I started off years ago saying "Somday, when Bre'Anna's around 10-12 or so.....Then life happened. I started my own business and have finally managed after a few years to sock away some $ for the time away...enough for them and me. After the last 3 years working 65+ hr. weeks and dealing with certain deaths in my family and one of my best friends, I think I really need to be "recharged", as you say. In the Woody Allen film "Deconstructing Harry", he describes himself as "spiritually bankrupt". At this point in my life I've never felt closer to that statement. I've stopped enjoying all the things I used to love, like getting up at dawn and going Mtn. Biking....even riding my motorcycles seems dull lately....and all I seem to think about is this planned challenge and adventure that seems may never quite materialize....

In my gap year of college, I went coast to coast with The Dead. I've never met more friends, seen more sights or had a better time in my life, pre-marriage. And I'm not depressed now, either, just very much in need of that "spirit" that only a prolonged, life altering adventure and challenge to perseverance could bring again....

Lilred
09-26-2004, 16:41
Sprocket,
Try involving your daughter in your trip. Put up an enlarged map of the A.T. on the wall of her room and let her track your trip with post it strips. Have her be 'in charge' of your mail drops. Your wife can make her feel as if she is a very important part of your trip. Maybe she can join you for short sections of your hike when you get to easier areas.

I'm taking an extended section hike this summer for 4-6 weeks, depending on money, and I'm leaving behind my 15 year old. He isn't crying and being all clingy, but I still feel guilty. I don't think the guilty feelings go away as long as a child is living at home.

orangebug
09-26-2004, 16:57
.....Then life happened. ...
Yeh, you're ready for a hike.

Just be aware that it keeps on happening.

You might actually find that prolonged section hikes might be a better "fix" than a long hike. From what I've seen of many thru hikers, the re-entry never quite takes, and further thru hikes (CDT PCT IAT Pilgrimage and more) become a recurrent life interruption. 4-6 weeks might be enough to get your juices flowing, have the buzz from planning and mappin, gear procurement and journal writing.

That plan would have the AT done by the time she is 10. Then you could treat her and your wife to a walk in the Alps, 15 K between "huts" with gourmet food and civilization. Then you might take them on an adventure hike into South America, for instance. Mount Killamonjaro is a good family experience, I've been told.

(Trying ovetly to convert another thru hiker wannabe into a sectioner.)

Bill...

MOWGLI
09-26-2004, 16:57
1)Has anyone here through hiked having left young(er) children behind, and if so...what did you tell them?

2)How did they take it? Was there substantial problems back home due to you not being around...ie: emotional problems, fear from child that "You'll get eaten by bears" (I've got that one already:) ) etc...

....And finally, more a general question to all:
3) Am I being as selfish or as negligent as a parent (as I sorta feel) that I've planned this trip for years to do before my 30's, but now I have a young child and should I postpone this trip till she's "X" years old? X being age what?

Would really appreciate any and all advice.....and what a great resource this place is for potential 2000 milers like myself!....

1) Yes, my youngest was 9 when I left, and turned 10 while I was on the trail. I told her that I had a dream to hike the trail, and that I'd call often, and that she would visit me along the trail. I involved her by talking to her class before I left, and sending postcards to her class every week. I also called home from every pay phone that I encountered. I also promised to get her a little something from each of the 14 states.

2) She didn't handle it all that well. Either did my wife or my 18 y.o for that matter. No worry about Dad being eaten by bears. They just didn't understand the prolonged absence. By the end of the trail, my 10 y.o. was pretty pissed off at me. That lasted over a year after I completed the trail.

3) Yes - a thru-hike by its very nature is selfish. Don't let anyone try to tell you otherwise. Negligent? Well, do you have money to tide your family over while you are gone? Will they have health benefits while you are on the trail? Are their basic needs attended to? If the answer to any of those 3 questions is NO- then IMO - you are being negligent.

Good luck. This is a tough one.

Little Bear GA-ME 2000

sprocket
09-26-2004, 19:47
Lilredmg said:

"Sprocket,
Try involving your daughter in your trip. Put up an enlarged map of the A.T. on the wall of her room and let her track your trip with post it strips. Have her be 'in charge' of your mail drops. Your wife can make her feel as if she is a very important part of your trip. Maybe she can join you for short sections of your hike when you get to easier areas."


Wow....such basic, good advice. I can start to see this working out....mostly.:sun I already have a map of the eastern seaboard on her wall in her room with the AT marked (by me). As I said, I'm trying to get her "excited" for me...But having her be more involved as you suggest, might just be the fix for this...

and Orangebug, I've already sectioned a bit...Hundred Mile wilderness (I refused to climb Katahdin for the same reasons Hockey players won't touch the Cup before earnin' it) a few years back and The Long Trail two years ago, to "whet" my appetite for this....but I only came home sad that I couldn't keep going....I couldn't even sleep in my bed for a week or so after the LT!
I think I'll be happy when I can cross from a state...through another state....and on to another. Or maybe when when I'm not sure, and don't care to know what day of the week it is.....I NEED to go GA-ME. Or at the least head out from Springer with that intention. I've been to India w/ my best friend before I was married, and backpacked there for a few months, But somewhere along the way, the AT become a "Holy Grail" for me personally, and I know I'll regret it when I'm older if I don't go.....The issue is: now...or later when she can comprehend things a little more?
You all have been great at helping me work this out...

minnesotasmith
09-26-2004, 21:31
My father was in the mil during my childhood, and was often away. He had multiple unaccompanied tours of six months to a year (two of the former in the late unlamented SE Asia Wargames, 1965 - 1973). His marriage, and his relationship with his children (I was not his only offspring) both endured.

If there is adequate reason for you to be away, and your responsibilities are not grossly neglected by being so, go, and without guilt, no matter the manipulative BS sent your way by children. Taking care of them appropriately does NOT mean they get vetos over you living your life.

Jersey Bob
09-26-2004, 22:10
at least 10 characters

tarbubble
09-27-2004, 13:42
even with enough money to get by, single parenthood is rough. you're not just leaving your child, you are also leaving your wife. i have a 2.5 year old, plus we're trying for kid #2 to be born next summer, and i have to plan anything epic with kids in mind. we're planning on doing a long section of the PCT in 2006 or 2007 (we live in CA), and have accepted that we will need llamas to carry the food (there's no way we can carry enough food for 2 adults & 2 kids for 14-day stretches). we'll do the AT as a family when the kids are old enough to walk over 10 miles a day.

another thing you may not realize is how homesick you might get. i had to abort a 7-day solo trip last summer because i missed my husband & son so much it physically hurt. i couldn't stop thinking about them.

do you ever take your daughter backpacking with you? we started taking our son out at 4 months of age. i have a friend whose son could hike 10 miles a day at age 5, because she took him along on every trip she went on. is your wife an adventurous type? consider a family adventure if you think that's possible.

grrickar
09-27-2004, 13:54
I travel a lot with work, and sometimes the assignments are for weeks on end. My 4 year old gets upset when she sees me packing, and it usually turns out to be a big scene at the airport when I leave my wife and daughter to catch the plane.

Hiking presents a different problem, because while I am on my business trips I can call here each night. Not so while hiking. I will be doing my first AT section hike in a week, and I will be gone for 11 days with no contact. The way we have planned it is that her and the wife will be doing fun things while I am gone (they are going to the Tennessee Aquarium the day after I leave for the trail for example) and that will hopefully keep her mind off the fact that I am gone somewhat.

It isn't going to be easy, and I will feel guilty about it. When she is older and ready, I may try bringing her along. She loves to camp and be in the outdoors, but she couldn't handle the miles.

The bottom line is that I involve her as much as I can, but some trips she just has to stay at home and we try and plan activities for her so she has fun and doesn't dwell on the fact I'm not there. I even take her on work trips along with the wife whenever I can.

Toolshed
09-27-2004, 14:20
Sprocket,
FWIW, I have a 4-year old. Before he was born and even 3 years earlier before I was married, I used to spend a lot of time in the woods. before our son, my wife didn't mind - She loves to paint and draw and reaed, so she enjoyed her hours of cuddling up with our brittanies and a warm cup of tea.

Since our son, I take 2-3 day BP trips and I am miserable for anything longer - It's tough enough just to travel for work for a week. My realization is that it is more important for me to be there for him than for me to find solace in the woods or on the trail. I have found having a cell phone makes a weekend getaway much easier, but since you are asking for opinions, here's mine:

I do think it is selfish to take off now - Your wife and child need you and you need them.
I honestly would wait until your child is a bit older 9-12 (barring no other little ones popping up) and then do smaller section hikes especially in spring and fall when your child can chart your progress on a map for perhaps a school project or just for fun as well as mail a package or two to you.
Summer can be slower periods where your family could perhaps stay in campgrounds and enjoy the pool and playground while you do some dayhikes.
We found that this worked great - I could bang out longer dayhikes for a day or two while we camped somewhere and then spend a day or two with my family touring and hanging out.

I also found all I really need right now is a day or two of good hiking to refresh myself.
Cheers
Rick

minnesotasmith
09-27-2004, 16:14
When I spent that 6 weeks hiking around out west (W. TX, NM, UT) back in the late 1980s, it was with a group from my college. After 10 days or so, it was fairly easy to tell apart the single unattached people from the married/cohabitating types; the latter were MUCH more irritable, apparently no longer accustomed to such lengths of celibacy. ;)

Many of the second group had their spouses/GFs/BFs drive out at least once and spent an off day and night with them in motels. Lo and behold, they were all better -- for a few days, anyway.

The long and the short of it is that people used to being in relationships should not panic and think the sky is falling when they have some lackanookie/blue gonads syndrome while out on a long section- or thru-hike. You'll survive going without, and so will they, and you'll have added a crown jewel to your life by hiking the AT.

Israel
09-27-2004, 16:47
Interesting thoughts everyone.

Sprocket,
I am sure you know this but and do not expect this but...Thru-hiking is not a receipt for happiness. In my 4,000+ miles on the A.T. I have met many a thru-hiker that are just as unhappy, if not moreso, at the end of their hike as they were at the begining. One of things I have learned, and began to feel in my own life, is that happiness is where ever I am. You may well find doing a thru-hike to make your dissatisfaction at home more pronounced. Maybe you just love walking and the wilderness, I don't know. Maybe you are just bored at home and long for that feeling of freedom the open road can seem to offer. Just remember, that open road gets lonely and while mountains are certainly beautiful, they are not very good at hugging you goodnight or being there for you when you need them. In fact, they are rather indifferent. :)
The conclusion I have come to is that love is greater than all else we accomplish and in the end nothing else will really matter. To me the best question you can ask yourself right now is not so much what is selfish b/c that is a hard one to grasp, but rather, ask yourself, what course of action is the most loving? What can you do that will assure that your child and wife will be the most loved now, in the future, and always? As a married man, and in my opinion for everyone else here on this planet, the most important job set before you, the most important calling you or anyone else can have, is the call to love God with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength, as well as loving others around them as much as possible. Being married, loving your family and being that love and demonstrating that love is the greatest and most important thing for you. If you do this you will always be doing the right thing. Only you know whether to do that means you staying home and section hiking or going on a thru-hike. No matter what the answer is (section or thru-hike), the greatest freedom you will ever find is not in the open road but in the adventure of living out Godly love and putting others first. That is true freedom and is independent of ones address or circumstances.

Toolshed
09-27-2004, 16:54
Wow Israel -
After reading that I had to call my wife and tell her I love her and thanks for putting up with me for all these years. :-?

MOWGLI
09-27-2004, 17:00
Interesting thoughts everyone.

You may well find doing a thru-hike to make your dissatisfaction at home more pronounced.

I agree with this statement completely. It is a distinct possibility.

You know it's interesting... My wife and I had gone through a fairly extensive process before I left for the trail. I had her complete support, yet things were still very difficult.

The AT it not a panacea. It did not really change my life. We had made the changes before I did the hike. If you are looking for a hike to be a transformative process, and you do not engage your spouse and/or kids in that process, the change will probably be for the worse. In other words, very few people can relate to a thru-hikers experience. It is a different world altogether.

I am not trying to be a downer here. I am just trying to inject a little reality into this thread.

By the way, my deal went like this. If either my daughter or my wife wanted me home for any reason, I was coming home - no questions asked. Thankfully, that call never came. Although, I did have a few non-negotiable visits to home that I absolutely had to make. My daughter's fourth grade school picnic and play was one of those things.

Little Bear GA-ME 2000