Down bag vs. Tarp Condensation

[Simrose]

I scoured the gear forums because I thought I would find an answer to this ... I'm pretty sure it has come up before so I'm sorry if it's a repeat.

I have a tarptent squall and I know there will be some condensation issues with it from time to time, that doesn't bug me too much. I'm hoping to hear from anyone who used a single-wall tent/tarp with a down bag. Was moisture on the bag a problem or is the coating enough to protect the down? (I'm considering WM Ultralite, Moonstone Lucid 800, and REI sub-kilo.)

Thanks!

[orangebug]

WM PUMA bag in a Wanderlust Nomad. The Nomad is a famous condensation factory. The condensation stays on the walls until you touch it.

Once I was warm in the bag, I'd bring my wet hiking clothes into the bag and line it along me and the zipper. This turned the bag into a dryer with me as the heat source. Boots went into a plastic bag at the foot of the tent or in the foot of my bag if it was well below freezing. Of course, this adds to the vapor and condensation.

I highly recommend anything by WM. These will last at least one life time.

[rumbler]

I had a single wall tent (Six Moon Designs Europa) and a down bag in 2003. I had a total of one bad incident in what was a very wet year, and that incident was early in my trip and more a combination of horrendous weather coupled with user error than anything else.

Take an absorbent face towel with you. There will be a few nights where you will wake up and brush down the tent walls, but not many at all where your down bag will be threatened. With a bit of sense single walls and down can live very amicably together.

[stickman]

Simrose, I too use a Squall, with a Marmott Arroyo down bag (not a water resistant shell). I recently had a couple of nights when clouds and fine drizzle moved in, and the Squall was soon extremely covered with condensation on the inside surface. It wasn't a problem unless you touched it, but you can expect a shower of drops when you roll over in the night or get in or out of the tent. For a couple of nights this wasn't a problem, but I imagine that in an extended wet spell with no opportunity to dry out the bag during the day, it might have become a problem.

Having said that, I like the Squall a lot, though I'm thinking of trying a hammock.

Stickman

[Kerosene]

Take an absorbent face towel with you.I use half of a kitchen sponge to wipe off any condensation.

The DWR coating for your sleeping bag should be more than sufficient to handle typical condensation. Use Repel to clean the bag after every 50 nights of use or so and restore the repellency.

[Jeff T]

I have the Virga. Since its smaller than the Squall, the walls are a lot closer to you, so I often hit them when shifting, causing a rainstorm. I own a WM highlight and a Marmot Helium, both of which have never lost their loft when getting showered on. It's still a pain to hang your sleeping bag out to dry the outside.

If it's not bug season, leave the front screen open. It helps a bit.

[frankcornbread]

Hi.
Just returned from 5-days in the GWNF around Ramseys Draft wilderness area. Used a Squall and WM Ponderosa. Great sleeping and mucho condensation. Squall dried itself in about an hour after I got out and made breakfast, etc. I opened the Ponderosa and put the exterior up inside the tent and it too seemed dry to the touch. My Ponderosa is a MF version and it seemed very repellent to moisture. I must admit that waking up and realizing that the inside of the tent wall is covered in water droplets while outside is bone dry is a little disconcerting but they seem to rectify once you get outside and stop adding moisture through breathing inside. We had cool nights (high 30's-low 40's) and warm days so a fair amount of night time humidity which may have contributed to the problem. As well, all of my pitches were in pretty still air so little opportunity for ventilation. On the plus side, I sure did enjoy the 2 pound weight of the tent and the chance to trade some tent weight for a big luxurious (2 pound 8 ounce) sleeping bag. Used this same tent in the Rockys in August and had absolutely no condensation with two occupants. (I was solo in VA) I guess the dry western air and more breeze keep the interior humidity down. WM and Tarptent are both excellent products, in my opinion.
FC

[TREE-HUGGER]

I used a marmot helium with the wanderlust 2for2 the last couple of years. My experience was that the DWR finish on my bag is what saved me. On this particular tent the wall angle was sharp enough and my bag was long enough that my foot would touch the walls sometimes if I wasn't careful and it would get damp from the condenstaion. I never did have any blow in rain or splash factor problem on this tent, which is a problem with alot of single wall designs. So if you have a chance of laying in a small puddle, DWR wont do you much good. On the other hand mountain hardware has some bags where the seams are sealed and the edge seam is welded and they are waterproof. But they are about 10-12 ounces heavier. When they can make a waterproof bag that is ultra light and breathes well in warm humid conditions then our problems will be solved:)

On another note I have since sold my Wanderlust because Kurt Russel took mine and several of my friends deposits for tents last year Nov. 2003 and we havent heard from him since. I will not carry somebodys tent who steals my money and trust.

[Footslogger]

I used a single walled silnylon tent (Wanderlust Nomad) on my thru last year and carried the sub-kilo down filled sleeping bag. I woke up several mornings with visible moisture on the outer surface of my bag, mainly because I rolled up against the side of the tent during the night. But, my sleeping bag never got totally soaked or damaged. One thing I did in advance of my hike that might have helped was to spray a generous amount of Techron (durable water repellant) over the top and bottom of the bag. There were nights when I spilled water on my sleeping bag while making dinner and it always beaded up and could be brushed off or shaken off quite easily.

I now also have the Squall from Henry Shires and still use the same down bag. It's gotten damp on the surface a few times but again ...never totally saturated or damaged. If you're getting that much condensation inside your tent you might want to try and set it up so that there is more wind passage/ventilation through the tent at night. Condensation is pretty unavoidable with silnylon tarp type tents on cold/damp nights but my experience is that you can keep it to a minimum with good air circulation.

Another good point is keeping a small piece of pack-towel or synthetic chamois handy.

Anyhew ...just my experience.

'Slogger
AT 2003

[Colter]

I don't think most people realize that a down bag has to absorb a LOT of water to lose it's insulation value.

I used a Silshelter and a Feathered Friends down bag on my thru-hike. The foot of the bag got damp a number of times before I started propping up the foot of the tarp with a forked stick each night. After that it wasn't a problem.

Even with the foot of the bag getting wet on the outside many nights early in the trip, it had no noticable effect on the insulation of the down.

I have since bought a Tarptent.

Quality down is, in my opinion, still the very best insulation per pound.

[chknfngrs]

I use a Mtn Hardwear Phantom 32 and have zero trouble with touching it to a tent/tarp wall laden with condensation. As stated, the bag needs to be soaked for it to lose it's overall performance. it is definitely fun to see condensation on the inside walls/ceilings while everything outside is dry.

[Glee]

I plan on being on the AT around late Feb, early March. Starting from Harpers Ferry going north. I've been staying in my Hennessy hammock in the backyard since I got back from the AT 3 weeks ago.
I know I'm going to be in cold weather so I'm getting a MontBell U.L. Super Stretch Down Hugger 0 degree bag.(Anyone have one of these? How has it worked for you?) For the last few nights, fog has rolled in and I wake up with water all over the inside and outside of the fly. It's not condensation on the inside of the fly as it is wet before I even get in and I've been hanging the fly with the sides straight out and not down. (I'm going to try and hang them down to the side and see if that makes a difference) Anyway, I've seen some products, which you can put your bag in and will keep it dry, but I want to keep my weight down as much as possible. Any ideas or info would be great...

[Footslogger]

I generally had moisture on the outer surface of my down bag whenever it was humid and we had a drop in temperature ...which was quite often on my thru last year. I had coated my bag before the hike with Techron (durable water repellant spray) which seemed to help a lot. I couple times I had to pack up my bag when it was a little damp. In those cases I would typically hang it out on a tree limb while I was eating lunch.

My guess it that it's pretty hard to avoid getting condensation transfer onto your sleeping bag unless you've got a really roomy tent and/or you sleep very still all night, neither of which were the case for me.

'Slogger
AT 2003