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Blissful
02-16-2010, 12:46
Okay we got a female bluetick coon hound from SPCA who I know would do good on a trail. I am doing obedience training with her right now (we've had her 6 weeks). But I would like to be able to take her on day hikes up in SNP etc and eventually a weekend. Please give me your tips on getting her trail ready. What has worked for you? Not worked for you. Also, what do you use as a leash, etc, where do you hook it (on your waistbelt?) As you can see, I've got lots of questions. Thanks!

kanga
02-16-2010, 12:59
all dogs will eventually slip their leash a time or two and coon dogs love to roam. make sure you have excellent voice control (if you don't, you'll be sitting and waiting on that dog to come back for a LONG time) and the dog will take care of the rest.

kanga
02-16-2010, 13:01
just reread your post - i don't think you're going to be able to keep that kind of dog leashed the entire time. they like to cover alot of ground and being continually leashed will probably make that dog miserable.

Gray Blazer
02-16-2010, 13:19
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/6/2/1/7/300.jpg (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=31616&original=1&c=member&imageuser=6217)

I use a 5 foot leash. Blaze has had normal leash training. I keep her on my left and I use a hiking staff so one hand is always free. We learned early that the two of us will not be able to get through a narrow rocky part at the same time without one of us getting hurt.

Blaze's great trick is when we hit the uphills, I'll say go and let go of the left hand and switch the staff to the left hand and she pulls me up the hard climbs.

Blissful
02-16-2010, 16:27
just reread your post - i don't think you're going to be able to keep that kind of dog leashed the entire time. they like to cover alot of ground and being continually leashed will probably make that dog miserable.

Not sure I understand. If you are hiking along with the dog for miles how will it be miserable and not covering enough ground? You mean it won't be able to just go and roam freely? We are working with her right now on walking and owner control so she knows she can't roam free, along with distractions, etc. I know it will take time which is why I am doing it now before the hiking season. I'd think the dog would be more miserable here at home outside, chained and not going anywhere. :confused:

Tenderheart
02-16-2010, 17:05
Dogs definitely love and crave exercise. My dog, Cotton, runs with me everyday, and she thrives on it. Her running away while on a hike or run has never been an issue. That was just her temperment, not my training. I guess some dogs stay close and others roam. In order to turn one type into the other will take some careful training. As you know, dogs must be leashed in SNP. When I have to leash Cotton, a short one with her on my right side works best for us. I'm glad you guys rescued the dog, and I'm sure you will find your niche.

litefoot 2000

Lostone
02-16-2010, 17:06
Your 4 legged friend is required to be on a leash inside the park.

http://www.nps.gov/shen/planyourvisit/pets.htm


Follow the rule or not, Just sayin

wrongway_08
02-16-2010, 17:44
The dog will be fine. One of mine doesnt like to listen all the time ..... shock collar takes care of that.

My other dog is fine, never roams and stays close.

Spend the $80 or $100 for a really nice (1 mile range and compact) shock collar and you will be fine.

As far as getting him in shape, just hike with him. More often then not, the dog will out hike you.

kanga
02-16-2010, 17:57
Not sure I understand. If you are hiking along with the dog for miles how will it be miserable and not covering enough ground? You mean it won't be able to just go and roam freely? We are working with her right now on walking and owner control so she knows she can't roam free, along with distractions, etc. I know it will take time which is why I am doing it now before the hiking season. I'd think the dog would be more miserable here at home outside, chained and not going anywhere. :confused:
i've had several different types of coon dogs and they are different from other dogs. they are not happy being leashed all the time and they will mope to let you know it. they are ramblers and are not happy staying directly beside you the whole time, like a retriever would. 20 miles is nothing to them.

Heavy G
02-16-2010, 19:57
I adopted a 3 yr old Lab who had no training. I started with sit, then stay, then progresses to a heal command. Aside from that, a "leave it" commmand is beyond vital. Just remember when reinforcing behavior make sure it is based on the completion of the desired behavior and the reward comes immediately after the completion (contingent and contiguous). Once it is occuring at a regular frequency, spread out the number of rewards after completion. Intermittent reinforcers really increases the successful outcomes.

Also make sure you socialize the hell out of your dog, kids, adults, other dogs. I did that with my Lab and I can easily control her with voice commands and no leash b/c all those things/people are not new to her.

Just remember that it is not natural for a dog to be on a leash. So if you can train him/her to be off leash, it is best. I know that is not the popular notion, but I dont really care. And the people who gripe about it, tend to not have dogs or tend to not have trained dogs.

Wise Old Owl
02-20-2010, 23:21
The dog will be fine. One of mine doesnt like to listen all the time ..... shock collar takes care of that.

My other dog is fine, never roams and stays close.

Spend the $80 or $100 for a really nice (1 mile range and compact) shock collar and you will be fine.

As far as getting him in shape, just hike with him. More often then not, the dog will out hike you.

Do not get the shock collar from ebay... there are some really snaky vendors out there.

Here is some really good information:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6XMb2XRVVs

Wise Old Owl
02-20-2010, 23:30
Get out in a big field with your dog and another family member spread out 40-50 feet apart with goldfish crackers in both of your pockets. Make it a game of both calling back and forth and a whistle for greater distance. They love games and the learn quickly to come back when called. Later when off leash as others approch I call the dog back and leash untill the person passes. Now the dog is so used to being called on trail he will run back when someone else is coming the other direction.

Wheeler
02-21-2010, 00:44
Shock collars work wonders. When none of the more traditional training approaches worked for my dog, that collar worked magic; I fully believe both our lives are richer because of it.

Two Speed
02-22-2010, 08:44
I'd rate shock collars as a "maybe." Some dogs might respond well. Others? Maybe not. FWIW I am considering one for Barney. He's got a couple of habits that need work and he pulls those tricks when he's out of range.

Still trying a couple of other options but several encounters with some electrons may well be in that dog's future.

Roche
02-22-2010, 09:27
Get out in a big field with your dog and another family member spread out 40-50 feet apart with goldfish crackers in both of your pockets. Make it a game of both calling back and forth and a whistle for greater distance. They love games and the learn quickly to come back when called. Later when off leash as others approch I call the dog back and leash untill the person passes. Now the dog is so used to being called on trail he will run back when someone else is coming the other direction.
I follow the same training and etiquette - leash them when you see other people. I also have a pack for my dog. She carries her own water, bowl and treats. By why is it they always want to pass you on the most narrow part of the trail? Although obvious, make sure they have a good collar and ID. They always seem to make their own solo trips when their collar is off - go figure?

yappy
02-22-2010, 11:53
a shock collar ? that is awful. I saw a guy use that once and the dog was completely terrified. The guy thought it was pretty cool and he used it way too much. I have had a dog on hikes and she stays w me cuz she WANTS to not cuz she has too. I let her run free and explore cuz that is what dogs DO. Hello ???? that might be the first thing you want to understand. Their noses are so exquisite that is is cruel not to allow them to roam some. Please pleaseeeeee do us all a favor and don't bring your dog if they are going to be on a leash for 2000 freaking miles. My God.. I am consistantly amazed at what people will do to an innocent animal.

Two Speed
02-22-2010, 12:36
. . . I am consistantly amazed at what people will do to an innocent animal.You're presuming Barney's innocent. Trust me, he's a good sneak. When he's just ditty bopping around the tags on his collar are always making noise.

Just as soon as he decides to do something he shouldn't that comes to a complete stop and he's as silent as a tomb.

ytsuejam
02-22-2010, 20:02
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:pVkwgKtMwgz9mM:http://www.leatherbrothers.com/images/162Q.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.leatherbrothers.com/images/162Q.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.leatherbrothers.com/Training/129SC.htm&usg=__Hvr4F2S7SgF1h-JxpJ8443bkEuw=&h=263&w=576&sz=62&hl=en&start=4&sig2=2ORaas3E5LDosE_7-9ZuTw&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=pVkwgKtMwgz9mM:&tbnh=61&tbnw=134&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtraining%2Bcollars%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den %26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=zBWDS4CnB9XO8Qa3uLXSBg) These collars may look bad but they're absolutley safe for dogs ( no damage to trachea,ect.. They're like a governor (not the political kind) for your pet. We have them for all of our dogs, 4 rescues of various breeds and ages.

We use them with the retractable leashes;16 feet,anything longer and you are asking for trouble.ie; less to get wrapped around a tree or person.

Since our packs do not have waist belts,we either hold the leash in hand since there is two of us ( 1 pole per person) or if I'm solo: the 1 pole in hand-leash in other or use a simple,homemade belt(webbing) with a caribiner.
When in camp when there are others,I will put on the regular collar but still on leash.Not everyone likes a nosy nose!

music gear hiking 005.jpg (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8088&stc=1&d=1266971089)

This is Maggie ,getting her ready to head out at trail head.

jcazz
02-22-2010, 20:35
While running/hiking on busy trails or roads I use an X-Back harness typically used by mushers and a bungy line hooked to a waist belt. You will need to teach him: Hike, Gee, Haw, Easy and Whoa. On long section hikes he wears a ruff wear pack and he runs free. If he sees another hiker he comes back to me so I can leash him and he gets a treat. Good luck.

Desert Reprobate
02-22-2010, 20:39
The dog will be fine. One of mine doesnt like to listen all the time ..... shock collar takes care of that.

My other dog is fine, never roams and stays close.

Spend the $80 or $100 for a really nice (1 mile range and compact) shock collar and you will be fine.

As far as getting him in shape, just hike with him. More often then not, the dog will out hike you.

I tried that shock collar once. My dog would never come when I called. I put the thing on him and let him out the back door. He went out in the green belt and lay down under a tree. I waited a while and then went to the door and called him. He stood up, looked me in the eye, and took off in the other direction. I hit the button on the remote. He did a summersault, then got back up and ran across the street and jumped in the lake. End of shock collar.

Two Speed
02-22-2010, 22:35
. . . then got back up and ran across the street and jumped in the lake. End of shock collar.Smart dog. Fortunately there aren't any lakes close to home so that won't be a problem for me.

Seriously, using a shock collar for amusement? Way wrong, wrong in so many ways. Use it to correct entrenched and undesirable behavior? Maybe. Haven't decided yet.

drifters quest
02-22-2010, 23:15
I think this thread is full of some great information. I have a border collie which is great because although she likes to explore she never goes far and when we are hiking I tell her to "wait" and she comes and stays behind me. She is very intelligent which has its' advantages and disadvantes- she picks things up very quickly but her sensitivity can make her suspicous and she hates getting in trouble (once again good and bad at the same time). I think all dogs are different and if I put a shock collar on her she would shut down. I know another dog however that it would probably work quite well with.

I think when training a dog for the trail a few things that come to mind that are important are:

1. Fitness: make sure the dog can hike what you are asking him to hike
2. Socialization (people, dogs, other animals). This was the hardest for my dog since I got her when she was already a year without a lot of socialization but she does quite well now and enjoys trips to the dog park and I have even taken her for walks in the University district in downtown Seattle. The hardest for her though is in the woods when she hears somebody approaching and sees movement but doesn't know what it is she naturally gets suspicous.
3. In camp behavior: I suppose everyones different with this but I don't like my dog to wander off in camp.. I always want to be able to see her. If she doesn't settle down I tie her up but lately she has been very good and lays down in camp.
4. Tenting: make sure your dog is used to whatever sleeping arrangements you have; it could be a long night otherwise.
5. Other: if you are in a place where you have to cross water, make sure your dog doesn't mind or be prepared for a backup plan. I'm not sure how Kelly will do with water since it's too cold here to practice but most border collies enjoy it. Make sure your dog is acclimated to the weather conditions of the hike.

Two Speed
02-23-2010, 18:42
I'll throw one other consideration at you: Barney is very well trained to hike with me solo. Knows what he can get away with and what I expect. In a group he'll try to find the softest heart in the crowd and "obey" that person. Should have hiked with groups while he was still young.

Highpointbound
02-28-2010, 13:48
a shock collar ? that is awful. I saw a guy use that once and the dog was completely terrified. The guy thought it was pretty cool and he used it way too much. I have had a dog on hikes and she stays w me cuz she WANTS to not cuz she has too. I let her run free and explore cuz that is what dogs DO. Hello ???? that might be the first thing you want to understand. Their noses are so exquisite that is is cruel not to allow them to roam some. Please pleaseeeeee do us all a favor and don't bring your dog if they are going to be on a leash for 2000 freaking miles. My God.. I am consistantly amazed at what people will do to an innocent animal.


What in the world is WITH people?? WHY..WHY..do people feel that dogs can't be happy on a leash?? That type of attitude (thats just what dogs do..roam..blah blah) is how dogs get in trouble, and why some people HATE dogs on trails, parks, etc. When you are out in a place were the public has access to, your dog should be LEASHED! You want him to run? Throw the ball for him in your back yard, or jog with him.

Im sure dogs WOULD love running hog wild all over the place, getting into whatever, scaring wildlife or people who dont like dogs half to death. BUT..responsible owners dont let them do that. And dont get me started with the "voice control' thing. YAH okay. Everybody thinks they have voice control, until they are proved wrong.

And what is this "their noses are so exquisite that its cruel to keep them on a leash"???? Cruel to keep them on a leash cause they like to sniff??? Dogs like to hump folks legs too. Should we allow them to do this too?? This is why we have the issues with dogs that we do. It's NOT the dogs fault..its owners who have NO clue.

I am constantly amazed at the ignorance of dog owners.

And YES..I AM a dog owner who takes her dogs to parks, hiking etc, ALWAYS leashed. And they dont seem "miserable" to me! FAR from it!
Sheesh..get a 20 foot leash or something if you want to let the dog veer off from you a bit. But, you still have the ability to reel him in quick if need be. Works just fine for me.

cowboy nichols
02-28-2010, 16:05
What in the world is WITH people?? WHY..WHY..do people feel that dogs can't be happy on a leash?? That type of attitude (thats just what dogs do..roam..blah blah) is how dogs get in trouble, and why some people HATE dogs on trails, parks, etc. When you are out in a place were the public has access to, your dog should be LEASHED! You want him to run? Throw the ball for him in your back yard, or jog with him.

Im sure dogs WOULD love running hog wild all over the place, getting into whatever, scaring wildlife or people who dont like dogs half to death. BUT..responsible owners dont let them do that. And dont get me started with the "voice control' thing. YAH okay. Everybody thinks they have voice control, until they are proved wrong.

And what is this "their noses are so exquisite that its cruel to keep them on a leash"???? Cruel to keep them on a leash cause they like to sniff??? Dogs like to hump folks legs too. Should we allow them to do this too?? This is why we have the issues with dogs that we do. It's NOT the dogs fault..its owners who have NO clue.

I am constantly amazed at the ignorance of dog owners.

And YES..I AM a dog owner who takes her dogs to parks, hiking etc, ALWAYS leashed. And they dont seem "miserable" to me! FAR from it!
Sheesh..get a 20 foot leash or something if you want to let the dog veer off from you a bit. But, you still have the ability to reel him in quick if need be. Works just fine for me.
RIGHT ON!!!!!:banana:banana:banana:banana

Jason
03-01-2010, 16:27
Blissful,
I would start by saying that lots of exercise is the key. Trying to train a dog after they have been locked in the house all day will be less productive than working on the obedience stuff after a good run. Use lots of positive reinforcement: food and attention. I bought my dog a pack when she was quite young and made her wear it every time she went out. She associates the pack with going for a walk now. If I start to pack up camping or climbing gear she gets a little high strung but when I pull out her pack and show it to her she calms down very quickly. She walks behind me and is not allowed to go first. This means that I see all people, dogs, wildlife and water sources first. To teach her this I would put her pack on her and walk with hiking poles. Most trails are narrow enough that when she would try to sneak around me I would feel her pack brush against my leg and then whack her with a hiking pole. A 6-8’ leash might be helpful for the training phase which can be attached to your hip-belt so you don’t have to carry it. I find that she is a much more well behaved dog with a pack on— I don’t put much weight in it though; I find that a water bottle on each side and snacks (hers and mine) work well. The water bottles make it easy to ensure that the pack is well balanced.

Highpointbound,

Saying that all dogs need to be on leashes is about as extreme as saying leashes are cruel. Your dog might need a leash. Mine does not. For your claim that dogs are under voice control until they prove their owner wrong: I would politely say that if your dog is not aggressive and doesn’t damage someone else’s property it doesn’t matter if they end up out of control once or twice in their short lives.

“running hog wild”—If it’s legal what’s the problem

“getting into whatever”--If my dog gets skunked or stuck by a porcupine it’s my issue to deal with not yours

“scaring wildlife”—Wildlife should run if they see people or dogs it keeps them safe. And for the occasional deer that is taken down by a dog; it’s natural selection at work. The species is not in jeopardy so in the big picture it does not hurt anything.

“scaring people who don’t like dogs”—If the dog acts aggressive it’s totally unacceptable and does not belong in public places. If someone is simply scared by the sight of a dog then they should probably avoid hiking trails.

I’m not advocating for people to allow their poorly behaved dogs to run freely through crowded hiking trails and shelters. I thoroughly understand how bad dogs limit access to public resources for owners who have well behaved dogs. I also agree that it is disrespectful to others on the trail. But the argument that a well behaved dog might do something wrong someday so should be leashed all the time to prevent that does not make sense to me. All of the above things that are listed are inappropriate and not something I would allow my dog to do. But if it happens someday it really is not a big deal. I’ve done an AT hike and two on the Long Trail and have never seen the anti-dog / leash issues that seen to dominate this section of the forum. On some other thread I saw someone suggesting a hiker carry wasp spray to deal with dogs on the trail…If you need to walk through the woods in such fear of household pets that you carry wasp spray your time might be better spent with a therapist. I think some of this stuff might be more of an internet problem than a real world problem.

Jason Guess
Conway NH

Chance09
03-01-2010, 17:27
I hiked with a few different people who had dogs on the AT last year and I just have two things you may want to think about.

A lot of people train dogs to walk beside them while taking walks around town/sidewalk/road/ect. On the AT in a lot of places this isn't practical due to trial width so you may want to train your dog to walk behind or in front of you as well.

I hiked with a guy who had trained his dog to sleep on it's own sleeping pad. The dog then always knew that that was it's space and it wouldn't be bothered there. I thought it was a pretty good idea.

kanga
03-01-2010, 18:43
Blissful,
I would start by saying that lots of exercise is the key. Trying to train a dog after they have been locked in the house all day will be less productive than working on the obedience stuff after a good run. Use lots of positive reinforcement: food and attention. I bought my dog a pack when she was quite young and made her wear it every time she went out. She associates the pack with going for a walk now. If I start to pack up camping or climbing gear she gets a little high strung but when I pull out her pack and show it to her she calms down very quickly. She walks behind me and is not allowed to go first. This means that I see all people, dogs, wildlife and water sources first. To teach her this I would put her pack on her and walk with hiking poles. Most trails are narrow enough that when she would try to sneak around me I would feel her pack brush against my leg and then whack her with a hiking pole. A 6-8’ leash might be helpful for the training phase which can be attached to your hip-belt so you don’t have to carry it. I find that she is a much more well behaved dog with a pack on— I don’t put much weight in it though; I find that a water bottle on each side and snacks (hers and mine) work well. The water bottles make it easy to ensure that the pack is well balanced.

Highpointbound,

Saying that all dogs need to be on leashes is about as extreme as saying leashes are cruel. Your dog might need a leash. Mine does not. For your claim that dogs are under voice control until they prove their owner wrong: I would politely say that if your dog is not aggressive and doesn’t damage someone else’s property it doesn’t matter if they end up out of control once or twice in their short lives.

“running hog wild”—If it’s legal what’s the problem

“getting into whatever”--If my dog gets skunked or stuck by a porcupine it’s my issue to deal with not yours

“scaring wildlife”—Wildlife should run if they see people or dogs it keeps them safe. And for the occasional deer that is taken down by a dog; it’s natural selection at work. The species is not in jeopardy so in the big picture it does not hurt anything.

“scaring people who don’t like dogs”—If the dog acts aggressive it’s totally unacceptable and does not belong in public places. If someone is simply scared by the sight of a dog then they should probably avoid hiking trails.

I’m not advocating for people to allow their poorly behaved dogs to run freely through crowded hiking trails and shelters. I thoroughly understand how bad dogs limit access to public resources for owners who have well behaved dogs. I also agree that it is disrespectful to others on the trail. But the argument that a well behaved dog might do something wrong someday so should be leashed all the time to prevent that does not make sense to me. All of the above things that are listed are inappropriate and not something I would allow my dog to do. But if it happens someday it really is not a big deal. I’ve done an AT hike and two on the Long Trail and have never seen the anti-dog / leash issues that seen to dominate this section of the forum. On some other thread I saw someone suggesting a hiker carry wasp spray to deal with dogs on the trail…If you need to walk through the woods in such fear of household pets that you carry wasp spray your time might be better spent with a therapist. I think some of this stuff might be more of an internet problem than a real world problem.

Jason Guess
Conway NH


you stop that! you're not allowed to make sense here!:mad:




jk. that is probably the most well-written response i have ever read. thanks.:sun

Wise Old Owl
03-01-2010, 23:42
I follow the same training and etiquette - leash them when you see other people. I also have a pack for my dog. She carries her own water, bowl and treats. By why is it they always want to pass you on the most narrow part of the trail? Although obvious, make sure they have a good collar and ID. They always seem to make their own solo trips when their collar is off - go figure?

Before the trail narrows I say "OUT in Front" or OUT and the dog takes a twenty foot pace in front of me. That was the length of the original leash and if the dog gets too far I just whistle him back.

thelowend
03-09-2010, 23:10
Not sure I understand. If you are hiking along with the dog for miles how will it be miserable and not covering enough ground? You mean it won't be able to just go and roam freely? We are working with her right now on walking and owner control so she knows she can't roam free, along with distractions, etc. I know it will take time which is why I am doing it now before the hiking season. I'd think the dog would be more miserable here at home outside, chained and not going anywhere. :confused:


First, off, you are making me jealous because just about a month ago, I came across the most beautiful bluetick coon hound in Rich Mountain wilderness but the owner ended up finding us.. :(.. I wanted him...
anyways...

I can tell you now that you are going to want that dog voice trained VERY WELL. I have come across a few coon hounds in my hiking and dog store experiences and would like to reiterate that they like to roam and aren't exactly "follow the leader" type dogs (unless you are the consistent, everpresent leader that they need).. If you can get her voice trained, you can let her off the leash and just leash her up when you encounter other dogs/hikers. I almost have my black lab voice trained (still more of vocal guidance at this point) and I let her loose on most trails and as soon as I see a hiker/runner/dog/whatever, I use the Come command (she hasn't disobeyed me yet on the trail with "Come") and hold her collar or leash her up until we are out of ear/eye/nose shot.

mark schofield
03-11-2010, 07:46
I've had really good luck with a training collar to make my dog attentive to my commands. Like come when it gets too far away and sit when someone or another dog approaches. It took a few electric stimulations but now I send only a tone and she returns, sits, whatever. Really handy when other people or dogs around to cause a distraction. It's nice to let the dog off leash and be able to trust it. It takes some work and time but with my dog it seemed to work out.


http://securepets.com/train.html

Chaco Taco
03-12-2010, 08:30
i've had several different types of coon dogs and they are different from other dogs. they are not happy being leashed all the time and they will mope to let you know it. they are ramblers and are not happy staying directly beside you the whole time, like a retriever would. 20 miles is nothing to them.

Yea this is kinda what I thought. Coons can cover about 3 times more ground than humans in half the time. I notice they run out and back out and back

Chaco Taco
03-12-2010, 08:31
We will be getting a pure German Shepherd joining us this fall. Cant wait!!!!