Possible AT extension into Alabama

[Peg-leg]

Saw this on our local news site, thought some people might find it interesting.

http://blog.al.com/birmingham-news-stories/2010/02/appalachian_trail_expansion_ge.html

[WalkingStick75]

Extending the trail requires an act of congress.... good luck with that.

[MtnRider1981]

So they have been trying to do this for 25 years? Notice they referred to the AT as the 'Appalachian Mountain Trail.' Maybe it doesn't make much difference but Alabama can't fix their own pot holes. Alabama should focus on their obesity epidemic and failing public schools.

Leave the AT alone.

[fiddlehead]

So they have been trying to do this for 25 years? Notice they referred to the AT as the 'Appalachian Mountain Trail.' Maybe it doesn't make much difference but Alabama can't fix their own pot holes. Alabama should focus on their obesity epidemic and failing public schools.

Leave the AT alone.

That's funny right there now.
And somewhat sad.

[Brother Baldy]

Alabama has a lot to offer and why shouldn't the trail be extended? Expansion is what has caused the trail to become what it is today. Change is hard, but inevitable.

[sixhusbands]

Well as long as they are thinking about extending the trail, lets take it all the way to New Orleans. Then Mardis Gras could be the offical starting time for NOBO's and New Years could be the official end for the SOBO's.

[Two Speed]

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=58767

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

[Cabin Fever]

Ain't gonna happen. Quit dreaming. I welcome the Pinhoti into the network of long distance trails in the east, but it will never become an official part of the Appalachian Trail. Why does it need to? If you are really obsessed with hiking from Alabama, just start on the Pinhoti and then hit the AT.

[SGT Rock]

Alabama has a lot to offer and why shouldn't the trail be extended? Expansion is what has caused the trail to become what it is today. Change is hard, but inevitable.

Well probably because the Pinhoti currently has about 45 miles of road walks in GA and if you read the article, it is multi use trail in GA. As I understand it now, that means most of the 150 miles in GA are mountain bike shared trails.

I VERY much doubt the ATC will go for mountain bike trails. And I VERY much doubt the GA Pinhoti people will give up this source of trail maintenance. Like it or not, mountain bikers often show up in much larger numbers when trails need work than hikers do. Seems this is a sticky subject between the GA and AL Pinhoti people.

[SGT Rock]

Ain't gonna happen. Quit dreaming. I welcome the Pinhoti into the network of long distance trails in the east, but it will never become an official part of the Appalachian Trail. Why does it need to? If you are really obsessed with hiking from Alabama, just start on the Pinhoti and then hit the AT.

Exactly. When Benton MacKaye dreamed up the AT, it included feeder trails that were not the AT. This is one of those feeder trails. So it fits into his vision, and it doesn't have to be the AT.

Nothing stops anyone from hiking from Flagg Mountain to Katahdin now. It just isn't called the AT. Someone does have a name for it though - Nimblewill Nomad and the ECT www.nimblewillnomad.com

[full conditions]

Exactly. When Benton MacKaye dreamed up the AT, it included feeder trails that were not the AT. This is one of those feeder trails. So it fits into his vision, and it doesn't have to be the AT.

Nothing stops anyone from hiking from Flagg Mountain to Katahdin now. It just isn't called the AT. Someone does have a name for it though - Nimblewill Nomad and the ECT www.nimblewillnomad.com (http://www.nimblewillnomad.com)
Quite true sarge - but, we also know that MacKaye's original vision called for the southern terminous to be Mt. Mitchell so we're obviously deviating from that script. The southern terminous has changed a bunch over the years - both conceptually and in reality. If there are enough folks that want to extend the AT down the skyline to Alabama and thereby extend to the Pinhoti the status and protection of the AT then I'm cool with that.

[Two Speed]

Do you really want the Pinhoti to look like the AT? FWIW I don't.

[SGT Rock]

How about if there are enough people that don't want it. The problem is they would have to route the AT through the BMT to do it, and the BMTA has specifically made the BMT to be UNLIKE the AT. It was, and has been the BMTA's position that the BMT is to be a more wild, remote trail to give hikers and option to the AT. This would destroy the character of about 65 miles of BMT.

Add to that, apparently the GA Pinhoti people also think the Pinhoti is good as shared use trail and like it that way.

And from what I get from the Alabama Pinhoti people, many of them don't want the AT taking over their trail either.

[full conditions]

I suspect that there were some serious objections raised at the notion of extending the trail down to Mt Oglethorpe - it worked out ok IMHO. And, to anwer your first question - if enough people don't want the AT extended then it wont happen. And, I'm cool that too.

[Dances with Mice]

This question seems to pop up about twice a year, doesn't it? Same answer: If someone wants to extend the AT to Alabama or into Canada, go for it.

The ATC is a volunteer organization and if nobody volunteers to make something happen then it just ain't gonna happen. Write that down, it's a fact of life.

Don't tell volunteer organizations what they should do if you ain't willing to do it. Nothing will get done by saying someone else should do something.

So start by joining the ATC. Then organize all the people interested in extending the AT either direction together, determine the obstacles to your goals and start tackling the problems. It really is as easy and as very, very difficult as that.

And remember that part of original vision had a forked AT, with two southern, uh, terminusesess, with one ending atop Stone Mountain in GA. Making that happen would confusicate all the purists, wouldn't it? Hey, it might be worth making it happen just for that alone.

[SGT Rock]

I have voted for years for a corridor approach to the AT and other trails - something more like the PCT and CDT do. That way people can link their walk from south to north however they like and still not feel like they are missing out on the 2000 miler thing.

[Tennessee Viking]

The Pinhoti will never be part of the AT, and never will leave Springer. It is currently under plans to be part of the Great Eastern Trail though.

Also, you can take the Pinhoti to the BMT, then the BMT to Springer. But thats it.

[SGT Rock]

The Pinhoti will never be part of the AT, and never will leave Springer. It is currently under plans to be part of the Great Eastern Trail though.

Also, you can take the Pinhoti to the BMT, then the BMT to Springer. But thats it.
Which is cool with me. Nothing stops anyone from hiking from Flagg Mountain to Katahdin except for those that are stuck on a name.

[Spokes]

Doesn't this topic always rear it's ugly head about this time every year?

My (conspiracy) theory is it's just a PR ploy to keep the mystic alive.

[SGT Rock]

Yep. I think the Pinhoti people do it just to get the name out there.

I told them they need to do three things really:

1. Get some better maps. The current ones suck. I know someone that is working that.

2. Get a guidebook for the trail out. I have volunteer to help. A Pinhoti member has contacted me about getting that started.

3. Get out and talk to hikers about the Pinhoti. That includes maybe getting a forum here in other trails and get some that knows the Pinhoti to come on and generate interest.

[Two Speed]

Which is cool with me. Nothing stops anyone from hiking from Flagg Mountain to Katahdin except for those that are stuck on a name.Truly, an insurmountable obstacle for those with a colonic outlook on life.

[AUhiker90]

I beleive there is a new "guidebook" out. As for maps they really do suck its quite sad.
http://www.pinhotitrailalliance.org/pocketguideorder.html


I really do enjoy the pinhoti and I am all for working on it a bit but the AT and the pinhoti are different and should stay that way. I enjoy how there arent as many people out on the Pinhoti but i guess for it to really flourish it has to be know by the hiker community at large.

[Two Speed]

AUhiker, have you looked at Mr Parkay (http://parkaymaps.110mb.com/)'s maps. I used the "official" forest service maps when I was doing the Alabama section, and yeah, they left a lot to be desired. By the time I started the Georgia section I found Mr Parkay's stuff and they rock!

[AUhiker90]

Those maps look alot nicer. I will have to purchase them when I get back from my Thru.

[Two Speed]

No purchase required. Download, print & hike.

Does it get any sweeter than that?

[AUhiker90]

Very nice just printed them out. Now I am considering just hiking to springer instead of driving.

[Two Speed]

Why not? All you got to do is get to Anniston, hike the Chief Ladiga to the Pinhoti intersection and head north. Do a resupply when you get to Cave Spring on the Georgia line. About the only problem I can think of are the road walks in Georgia (they suck, trust me) and resupply north of Chatsworth. Not that far to the BMT from Chatsworth, but I'm not sure how long many day's supplies you'd have to carry out of Chatsworth to get to resupply on the Benton MacKye.

Anyone, resupply on that section of the BMT?

[SGT Rock]

I don't know how many miles it is from Chatsworth to the BMT. If you go north on the BMT from the intersection the next supply point is Ducktown, and the next one south is Blue Ridge/Cherry Log.

[Jack Tarlin]

Side or adjoining trails that cross or link to the A.T. ?

I think that's great.

Adding or extending the present A.T. ?

Nope.

The present Trail clubs and maintaining groups have enough on their plate already without adding more miles, jurisdictions government rules, laws, agencies; red tape; etc.

Whenever I meet someone who's all gung ho about adding to or extending the existing Appalachian Trail, I always have one question:

How much time do you presently spend and how many miles of the Trail are you presently maintaining?

This usually ends the discussion.

[SGT Rock]

Over at the Alabama trails website forum there is a note from the Webmaster who talked to the ATC. Basically if there was any movement of the terminus it would require congressional act. And they would not take over any trails that didn't want to or it was not feasible to take over. So, as Jack stated, unless there are a bunch of people out there that feel like building another ~350 miles of trail soon, it won't happen.

[WILLIAM HAYES]

The trail starts at springer period end of discussion

[SGT Rock]

Unless you SOBO.

[Rain Man]

Whenever I meet someone who's all gung ho about adding to or extending the existing Appalachian Trail, I always have one question:

How much time do you presently spend and how many miles of the Trail are you presently maintaining?

This usually ends the discussion.


Love it! And so true.

Rain:sunMan

.

[flemdawg1]

3. Get out and talk to hikers about the Pinhoti. That includes maybe getting a forum here in other trails and get some that knows the Pinhoti to come on and generate interest.

Who do you talk to for this (Rock, I thought you could do it)? It should definatley have it on space in the Other Trails forum area.

I also think its a PR push by AL tourism people to get some press.

[Mags]

I asked this before, but it probably got lost in the mix. :)

Anyway...when do the wildflowers peak in the Pinhoti Trail areas? Conversley, when does peak Fall hit the area? (I realize it is all approx. :sun)

[SGT Rock]

If you mean who do you go talk to. Hikers.

I'd start by showing up to SoRuck, The Gathering, Trail Days, Trail Fest, April Fools Bash, AT celebration, etc. and do presentations and/or set up booths. Also find local trail clubs and talk to them. Some organizations like Boy Scouts look for people to come to meetings and talk about trails - I've got an invitation now to one but haven't firmed anything up.

Local papers also look for interest stories. Call one local and start generating some stories. Since many papers publish on the internet as well, then that can get more talk generated if the link to that article starts spreading around too.

[flemdawg1]

I asked this before, but it probably got lost in the mix. :)

Anyway...when do the wildflowers peak in the Pinhoti Trail areas? Conversley, when does peak Fall hit the area? (I realize it is all approx. :sun)
wildflowers:
http://www.pinhotitrailalliance.org/wfhome.html

Fall color: late Oct-1st week Nov.

[flemdawg1]

If you mean who do you go talk to. Hikers.



Actually I just meant to add a Pinhoti forum here on WB.

[SGT Rock]

Ohhh. Alligator, Troll (probably full of work preparing to leave soon), or Angry Sparrow.

[traildust]

The trail starts at springer period end of discussion

This was the response a couple months ago when I asked this same question. How here we are again with more discussion on what is not going to happen. Time will tell. It takes decades to build trail and in decades politics and people change, get old, die off. Wonder what the average is of all the trail clubs that currently work on the A.T.? Wonder how many members in these great clubs are below the age of 30, out of all members in the club? Never say never in the trail community. Lots of folks have said the A.T. would never move out of the hands of private landowners but here we are, what 96% in public or ATC, or NPS control.

I am looking for a place to put a hostel.

[SGT Rock]

It could happen. And monkeys could fly out of my butt.

[GGS2]

It could happen. And monkeys could fly out of my butt.

Eew. I hope not. That could give you a real nasty case of monkey butt.

[WILLIAM HAYES]

right on rockster there is always a beginning and an end and that beginning is springer or katadhin if SOBO not alabama

[Appalachian Tater]

And monkeys could fly out of my butt. Speaking of which, what happened to Monkey Boy?


My opinion on this is unpopular but it makes sense to me that the Appalachian Trail should run the entire length of the geological formation of the Appalachian Mountains no matter where on the planet portions of it may be found.

[SouthMark]

[QUOTE=My opinion on this is unpopular but it makes sense to me that the Appalachian Trail should run the entire length of the geological formation of the Appalachian Mountains no matter where on the planet portions of it may be found.[/QUOTE]

It is the Appalachian Trail (a trail in the Appalachians) not the Appalachians Trail (a trail in all the Appalachians)

[Appalachian Tater]

It is the Appalachian Trail (a trail in the Appalachians) not the Appalachians Trail (a trail in all the Appalachians)

What about Appalachian trails? There are lots of 'em. But there is only one Appalachian Trail.

[SGT Rock]

Speaking of which, what happened to Monkey Boy?


My opinion on this is unpopular but it makes sense to me that the Appalachian Trail should run the entire length of the geological formation of the Appalachian Mountains no matter where on the planet portions of it may be found.

I don't disagree that it could or maybe should. My only problem was the idea that to do that it could take over trails that didn't want to be taken over. I've supported the idea of a "Trail Corridor" approach to the AT for years. I just don't think all trails should be like the AT or be the AT.

If people want to get together and build AT down there for the purpose of it being AT, then by all means get digging. And get some congressional support to change it too. ;)

[MtnRider1981]

Where did that flying monkey come from? hmm..

[Frosty]

Speaking of which, what happened to Monkey Boy?


My opinion on this is unpopular but it makes sense to me that the Appalachian Trail should run the entire length of the geological formation of the Appalachian Mountains no matter where on the planet portions of it may be found.Alas, the geologic formation of the Appalachian Mtns continues north of Cape Gaspe. It just happens to be underwater at the present time.

[moytoy]

Speaking of which, what happened to Monkey Boy?


I saw a post yesterday by Monkey Boy.. I think it was about the Nashville meet.

[SGT Rock]

Alas, the geologic formation of the Appalachian Mtns continues north of Cape Gaspe. It just happens to be underwater at the present time.

Maybe we could organize another ice age to get the sea level lowered and expose them.

But then again, they would probably then be under ice. My idea sucks.

[full conditions]

This was the response a couple months ago when I asked this same question. How here we are again with more discussion on what is not going to happen. Time will tell. It takes decades to build trail and in decades politics and people change, get old, die off. Wonder what the average is of all the trail clubs that currently work on the A.T.? Wonder how many members in these great clubs are below the age of 30, out of all members in the club? Never say never in the trail community. Lots of folks have said the A.T. would never move out of the hands of private landowners but here we are, what 96% in public or ATC, or NPS control.

I am looking for a place to put a hostel.
I'm with you on this one traildust. I just can't, for the life of me, see any harm in discussing the idea of moving the the trail's terminous(i). There is nothing inherently sacred about Springer Mountain. But here's something I do know - whenever you hear some d***** bag announce that it's "end of discussion" then you can be fairly certain the discussion is far from over.

[Mags]

I think what people are saying are two things:



A lot of people talk about moving the terminus and how great it would be. But, aren't getting off their asses to do anything
Most importantly...WHY? I like the idea of different trails with different cultures, markings, philosophies, etc. I loved my time time on the AT...doesn't mean I need every trail to be like the AT. Lets have a system of trails rather than one, big I-95 like monolith running on the East coast.

[JustaTouron]

Instead of trying to join the AT they would be better off joining the GET. When finished it could rival the AT and the biggest missing peice is Alabama.

http://www.greateasterntrail.net/get_map_large.html

[ki0eh]

Instead of trying to join the AT they would be better off joining the GET.

At least some of the Pinhoti-associated groups are represented on the GETA Board and so far the AL Pinhoti and some part of the GA Pinhoti are already considered part of the GET. (Only some of the GA Pinhoti as far north as a to-be-located side trail into Chattanooga to connect to the Cumberland Trail.)

[traildust]

Instead of trying to join the AT they would be better off joining the GET. When finished it could rival the AT and the biggest missing peice is Alabama.

http://www.greateasterntrail.net/get_map_large.html

GET is a great idea. We have word that there is going to be a sidetrail that will link the GET to the AT at Pearisburg so you could hit the A.T. there and skip Springer all together if you want. Isn't great that the U.S. has so many options. In Kentucky we are hoping to hook the Sheltowee Trace to the North Country Trail where it runs past Portsmouth, Ohio. We think it may take 10 years to get the 40 miles or so we need to do this. Then again, if we don't try then ......

[Two Speed]

. . . . . . . . . .

[JustaTouron]

GET is a great idea. We have word that there is going to be a sidetrail that will link the GET to the AT at Pearisburg so you could hit the A.T. there and skip Springer all together if you want. Isn't great that the U.S. has so many options. In Kentucky we are hoping to hook the Sheltowee Trace to the North Country Trail where it runs past Portsmouth, Ohio. We think it may take 10 years to get the 40 miles or so we need to do this. Then again, if we don't try then ......

Linking trails are great. Particularly when you can create 40-150 mile loops allowing folks to park a car, backpack for a week or two and then return to the car without hiking the same trail twice or needing shuttles etc.

[SGT Rock]

GET is a great idea. We have word that there is going to be a sidetrail that will link the GET to the AT at Pearisburg so you could hit the A.T. there and skip Springer all together if you want. Isn't great that the U.S. has so many options. In Kentucky we are hoping to hook the Sheltowee Trace to the North Country Trail where it runs past Portsmouth, Ohio. We think it may take 10 years to get the 40 miles or so we need to do this. Then again, if we don't try then ......
Gets back to my whole point about trail corridor.

[Hikerhead]

GET is a great idea. We have word that there is going to be a sidetrail that will link the GET to the AT at Pearisburg so you could hit the A.T. there and skip Springer all together if you want. Isn't great that the U.S. has so many options. In Kentucky we are hoping to hook the Sheltowee Trace to the North Country Trail where it runs past Portsmouth, Ohio. We think it may take 10 years to get the 40 miles or so we need to do this. Then again, if we don't try then ......

AT one time...the GET was going to go from The Breaks park to Burkes Gardens and now I understand it's going to Pipesteam Wva. I imagine the link would probably be a trail alongside the New River to Pearisburg....but I;m just guessing. If you open the link to the GET site and take a look at the map. At the very north end of the GET it ends at the Vermont border, only 30 or 40 miles away from the AT. I read somewhere on this site where that missing link is now on the way to being bridged.

[SGT Rock]

ECT already does the connections. But this is a series of existing trails linked by hikers trying to get from Fla to Quebec.

[Miner]

As someone who currently has no attachment to the current AT as I haven't hiked it and didn't grow up by it (though I'm currently looking to hike it next year), I find the strong "Don't Change My AT" way of thinking as interesting. It reminds me of how many guys, when they finally get married, don't want their wife to change in anyway (only she does).

When I first thought about hiking the great long trails of the US, when I looked at a terrain map of the US, my first thought was naturally why doesn't the AT go from the Gulf to Canada along the backbone of the US Appalachians. At the time, I had no historical understanding of the trail and it was natural to compare it to it's western cousins the CDT and PCT which start/end at Mexico/Canada rather then some lone mountain part way along the chain. And having hiked the PCT, that only reinforces the idea of that is what a long trail should be like.

So I expect that many people coming from a background more like mine are supportive of expanding the AT while those with a strong emotional attachment to the existing AT are so opposed to the idea.

So I'm currently torn between wanting to hike the current official AT verses starting in Alabama and hiking to Canada. I'm not sure which way I'll go at this point so I read these threads with great interest no matter how often the subject comes up.

[Frosty]

As someone who currently has no attachment to the current AT as I haven't hiked it and didn't grow up by it (though I'm currently looking to hike it next year), I find the strong "Don't Change My AT" way of thinking as interesting. It reminds me of how many guys, when they finally get married, don't want their wife to change in anyway (only she does).

When I first thought about hiking the great long trails of the US, when I looked at a terrain map of the US, my first thought was naturally why doesn't the AT go from the Gulf to Canada along the backbone of the US Appalachians. At the time, I had no historical understanding of the trail and it was natural to compare it to it's western cousins the CDT and PCT which start/end at Mexico/Canada rather then some lone mountain part way along the chain. And having hiked the PCT, that only reinforces the idea of that is what a long trail should be like.

So I expect that many people coming from a background more like mine are supportive of expanding the AT while those with a strong emotional attachment to the existing AT are so opposed to the idea.

So I'm currently torn between wanting to hike the current official AT verses starting in Alabama and hiking to Canada. I'm not sure which way I'll go at this point so I read these threads with great interest no matter how often the subject comes up.Well, I am missing the connection between extending the AT and these guys whoever they are who want their wives to not change, but the point you bring up in your last paragraph has been brought up before and perhaps you could answer a serious question: What difference does it make whether the Alabama and Quebec are part of the current "Official AT" or not?

[SGT Rock]

exactly. It is as if the supporters of taking over these other trails don't feel like hiking them unless they are the AT. Hmmmm....

[GGS2]

Anybody thought to check out Nimblewill Nomad's Journals? http://www.nimblewillnomad.com/ He went from Key West in the middle of the Caribbean all the way up to Belle Island off the coast of Newfoundland. He calls it the Eastern Continental Trail. Includes the Key West/Everglades Roadwalk, part of the Florida Trail, Alabama Roadwalk (just a connector, I guess), The Pinhoti Trail, part of the Benton MacKay Trail, The AT, then the International Appalachian Trail, a ferry ride to Nfld, and then finish with the entire eastern mountain range of Newfoundland. He combines the last four parts into the Appalachian Mountain Trail. Whatever you call it, it's something like 5260miles long.

[GGS2]

Oops. I see Sgt Rock already tagged that one.

[Sumone86]

Anybody thought to check out Nimblewill Nomad's Journals? http://www.nimblewillnomad.com/ He went from Key West in the middle of the Caribbean all the way up to Belle Island off the coast of Newfoundland. He calls it the Eastern Continental Trail. Includes the Key West/Everglades Roadwalk, part of the Florida Trail, Alabama Roadwalk (just a connector, I guess), The Pinhoti Trail, part of the Benton MacKay Trail, The AT, then the International Appalachian Trail, a ferry ride to Nfld, and then finish with the entire eastern mountain range of Newfoundland. He combines the last four parts into the Appalachian Mountain Trail. Whatever you call it, it's something like 5260miles long.


great site!

[SGT Rock]

Yes it is. What a cool hike that must have been.

[Mags]

It's not that I want to see the AT to change..I don't want the smaller, more remote and less used trails to change. :sun

It's like the corner grocery getting bought up by Food Lion or something. :)

Finally, using the logic of extending trails..why stop at Canada on the CDT? ;) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Divide_Trail)

I love the trails for what they are..not what other people think they should be. I'd hate to see lots of shelters on the PCT because more people want them. I'd hate to see more of that seeping purist attitude (it is happening I'm afraid) on the CDT because people want an official trail that must be adhered to religiously

Change is good. But not at the expense of making one big generic experience on every trail and wilderness tract.

[ki0eh]

AT one time...the GET was going to go from The Breaks park to Burkes Gardens and now I understand it's going to Pipesteam Wva.

Yep, the concept has changed to vastly reduce the co-extensiveness with the A.T. And also to move into an area of WV where the trail concept is welcomed and actively being worked on (http://wvscenictrails.org/GreatEasternTrail.aspx).


I imagine the link would probably be a trail alongside the New River to Pearisburg....but I;m just guessing. If you open the link to the GET site and take a look at the map. At the very north end of the GET it ends at the Vermont border, only 30 or 40 miles away from the AT. I read somewhere on this site where that missing link is now on the way to being bridged.

The north end of the GET is at the Moss Hill lean-to along Finger Lakes Trail in Steuben County, NY and will not overlap the North Country National Scenic Trail, which was a change from the earliest concepts of the Western Appalachian Alternative that did continue what is now the GET into the Adirondacks. There has been some discussion of extending NCT (not GET) past Middlebury VT to finish the connector - in fact Nimblewill Nomad did this on roads last year to finish his NCT hike. If this connection will be part of the North Country National Scenic Trail it will, like the Alabama extension, require an act of Congress.

[Two Speed]

. . . I'd hate to see lots of shelters on the PCT because more people want them . . . Unfortunately there's been several shelters built on the Alabama Pinhoti in the last couple of years, so there is one good thing about the road walks in the Georgia section: no shelters. :cool:

[DaSchwartz]

I don't think it would happen but all it would take is ONE Alabama US senator to put a footnote into any bill and the AT could be expanded into Alabama. It wouldn't have to be a separate bill at all, just an attachment to something unrelated like a jobs bill or funding bill.