View Full Version : Is all Polar Fleece created equal?
True Blue
02-19-2010, 13:42
Is all polar fleece created equal? Are there different weights or blends? Walmart has Danskin Polar Fleece tops on sale for $8. Don't know if this would be a good mid layer for AT in March/April. Do you have to pay more to get better warmth?
Polartec Fleece is better quality..but is that much better? All depends. I used a budget fleece on my AT hike and did fine.
Personally, I'd not bother with the fleece. Fleece is heavy and bulky compared to other options.
If you are on a budget, check out the M-65 Jacket Liner. Basically a poor man's Primaloft jacket. Wear it under a shell and it is warm, light (~10 oz for a men's large), compresses down nicely and inexpensive.
Having said that, there is nothing wrong with fleece if you already have one. It worksl. I just think there are other, perhaps better, options that may work for most people.
Blissful
02-19-2010, 14:47
Budget fleece works fine
The best fleece holds very little water, even when completely dunked. It is made under both the Polartec logo of Malden Mills, and the Polartherm logo of Stanfields. They both had the same patent. Stanfields also makes stuff under other trademarks, like Hot Chilli.
However, not everything with the Polartec or Polartherm logos is the same quality. The stuff made from recycled PET bottles tends to be inferior quality, unfortunately. There is now way of knowing from logos and trademarks alone. You have to go by feel. I am yet to find anything good without either of those logos, but those logos are not sufficient to ensure quality. You have to go by feel. Or else bring a bucket of water and scales with you when you go shopping.
The bucket and scales method is the only way to know for sure.
The stuff that holds less water also is more durable, alot more durable.
I think that's why they don't always like to sell the best stuff. It lasts forever.
JustaTouron
02-19-2010, 15:41
You may find the biggest difference between the high end stuff and walmart is not the fabric as much as the construction.
Fitted cut instead of hanging like a sack. Better quality zippers. More steady stitching. Better sewn on buttons. Spare buttons. Etc.
I tend to buy the walmart stuff (actually Target more often than walmart)
I won't buy crappy fleece. I won't pay much over $40 for quality fleece either. The thing is, you only need to buy 1 or 2 items every 5 years or so, as they can last for 10 years. So when I do buy fleece, I wait until I can get the best quality, in the size and style I want, for like $5 at Frenchies, or $20 at Marden's, or maybe $40 at LLBean factory outlet. The secret is not to buy what you don't need. The good stuff lasts forever. OK, on a thru-hike, maybe only half a forever.
You only need 2 pieces of fleece. The rest should be wool, and skin layers.
cavscout
02-19-2010, 17:56
Check out Old Navy for good, inexpensive fleece. I've got several of them and most will keep you veeeeery warm. Go by the feel of them. Obviously a thin, loose weave will let more heat out than a thick, tight weave.
LIhikers
02-19-2010, 18:21
Check out Old Navy for good, inexpensive fleece. I've got several of them and most will keep you veeeeery warm. Go by the feel of them. Obviously a thin, loose weave will let more heat out than a thick, tight weave.
I have 2 pieces by Old Navy that are quite nice.
The first is a double layer of fleece hat that my wife found. I used it winter camping in northern MN where the temps went to -25F and it kept me plenty warm. The other piece is a full zip fleece jacket that I bought at the local second hand store for $5 and that's good and warm too plus it's nearly, but not quite, windproof. By me second hand shops have plenty of fleeces to choose from so don't forget to look there for a good deal.
Snowleopard
02-19-2010, 19:49
There are different weights of fleece; the most common is 200 (grams/square meter??). 300 is pretty warm.
Mallden Mills (now Polartec) is higher quality, lasts longer. Cheapo off brands are fine, will pill when washed a lot, and will probably last a whole thru-hike. Just be careful not to get cotton fleece.
As I mentioned before, Polartherm by Stanfields is the same quality as Polartec by Malden Mills.
The problem isn't just the pilling, but also the water retention, which is bad to begin with with cheap fleece, and seems to get even worse as the cheap fleece pills. The recycled versions of Polartec and Polartherm are somewhat intermediate in quality between the top qualtity Polartec and Polartherm, and the cheap stuff. Some of the cheap stuff is comparable to the recycled Polartec and Polartherm. Helly Hansen stuff is also intermediate in quality in terms of being non-water-absorbing, although otherwise well made.
For backpacking the most important quality of 100wt, 200wt, 300wt fleece is that it be as non-water absorbing as possible, so only the best quality fleece should be used. You can still get it cheap though, and you can still pay a bundle for inferior quality, and you canb still find inferior quality with the Polartec and Polartherm trademarks. Unlike wool, fleece does not work as well when damp or wet. Its big advantage that, unlike wool, it stays dry, so quality wool and quality fleece work well together, ideally with the fleece carried as an extra layer for going over the wool, and the wool layers kept on.
Spirit Walker
02-19-2010, 20:21
Different manufacturers will have different density and durabilty. Malden Mills is one of the good ones. They use a rating system of 100, 200, 300 weight. Patagonia uses a different numbering system, but it does pretty much the same thing.
100 wt fleece is very light. I wear a light fleece indoors or as a midlayer under a heavier jacket.
200 wt fleece is good for above freezing temps. I used this on my first AT thruhike, starting April 1. It worked but I was sometimes cold. This is my everyday spring thru fall jacket.
300 wt fleece is thicker and warmer. I used this on my second thruhike and was happy with it.
For backpacking I've switched to a Patagonia micro-puff I bought on sale a few years ago. It seems to be about on a par with the 200 wt fleece in terms of warmth, but is lighter and packs smaller.
Toolshed
02-19-2010, 21:57
The problem with cheaper fleece is the way it is napped. Cheaper fleece tends to lose it's loft over time and the thickness varies across the materials (Poor quality control). the material flattens out as you wear it and you will end up being colder with it on. Now I am sure the difference is negligible. However there are 2 other problems with cheap fleece
1. It tends to pill and and start to look raggedy over a couple of years.
2. It is used in cheaper designs. I believe that like WL Gore, Malden requires pattern information and design before they sell the product to a garment manufacturer. They want to ensure their quality material is going into a well-designed quality garment. Cheaper fleece is stitched cheaply, has poor zippers that separate, has cheap pocket liners, weak collars that fall down and poor elastic around the waist that loses elasticity over time. In addition, the garment usually doesn't fit as well and has has cheaply stitched or banded sleeves.
The flip side is that they are as cheap as $5 and if you can live with the downsides above, then you've got quite a deal. If you need the better features plan to lay out $50+ dollars.
Snowleopard
02-19-2010, 22:14
...
2. It is used in cheaper designs. I believe that like WL Gore, Malden requires pattern information and design before they sell the product to a garment manufacturer. They want to ensure their quality material is going into a well-designed quality garment. Cheaper fleece is stitched cheaply, has poor zippers that separate, has cheap pocket liners, weak collars that fall down and poor elastic around the waist that loses elasticity over time. In addition, the garment usually doesn't fit as well and has has cheaply stitched or banded sleeves.
The flip side is that they are as cheap as $5 and if you can live with the downsides above, then you've got quite a deal. If you need the better features plan to lay out $50+ dollars.
I agree, mostly. I don't think they control customers designs.
Former employees of the Mallden Mills factory outlet store have a business that sells polartec online in cut pieces (by the yard) and full rolls (in case you're getting ambitious with your MYOG).
http://www.milldirecttextiles.com/ The old Mallden Mills factory outlet store was a great place. Sadly MM went bankrupt; it was a good company that treated its employees well.
You can get top quality fleece for as cheap as $5-$40. You can pay $100 for crap.
Buyer beware. The Polartec, or Polartherm, logo does NOT quarantee top quality.
They put the same trademark on their intermediate quality fleece.
You want the stuff that doesn't absorb as much water.
You should never put it in a hot dryer, and if its the right stuff, it shouldn't even need a dryer.
mister krabs
02-20-2010, 20:30
Lands end is a malden mills partner and all their fleece is the good stuff. It's all on mad sale right now too, 50-70% off. 100 is light, 200 is medium and 300 is very thick. You can get a jacket equivalent to a 160$ northface denali for about 35$.
I like a light one for sleeping in and the first bit of walking in the morning. There are better things for a poofy camp layer, like a down sweater.
Old Grouse
02-20-2010, 20:44
I've posted this before: I try always to buy the Malden Mills product because I admire what the mill owner did for his employees following a devastating fire in 1995. http://www.opi-inc.com/malden.htm
JustaTouron
02-20-2010, 21:36
I've posted this before: I try always to buy the Malden Mills product because I admire what the mill owner did for his employees following a devastating fire in 1995. http://www.opi-inc.com/malden.htm
Feuerstein is probably the most ethical businessman to have ever run a business.
However, he is no longer the CEO of Malden Mills.
And I refuse to buy anything from that company because the first thing the new owners did was fire him. They keep the Malden Mills label to get folks like you to buy from them, but they are not run anything like the company Feuerstein.
Stanfields of Truro Nova Scotia also has an excellent reputation.
It's an old family business, and a good one.
Old Grouse
02-21-2010, 21:10
Feuerstein is probably the most ethical businessman to have ever run a business.
However, he is no longer the CEO of Malden Mills.
And I refuse to buy anything from that company because the first thing the new owners did was fire him. They keep the Malden Mills label to get folks like you to buy from them, but they are not run anything like the company Feuerstein.
You're right but your description is a little misleading. Feuerstein actually lost control of Malden Mills in a bankruptcy filing (his second since the fire) and the creditor(s) which took over the Malden assets (including the name and goodwill) "fired" him. It would be extremely rare for any new owner out of bankruptcy to retain the prior leader(s). Meanwhile "folks like me" who continue to buy the Malden product can hope that Feuerstein's beloved employees or their successors will benefit in some smalll way. And in doing so, "folks like me" will be getting a superior product.
Just be careful which of their products you buy.
Not all Polartec fleece is made to the same original Polartec quality.
True Blue
02-22-2010, 20:01
Thank you all for your advice! I have learned a lot!
JustaTouron
02-22-2010, 20:04
You're right but your description is a little misleading. Feuerstein actually lost control of Malden Mills in a bankruptcy filing (his second since the fire) and the creditor(s) which took over the Malden assets (including the name and goodwill) "fired" him. It would be extremely rare for any new owner out of bankruptcy to retain the prior leader(s). Meanwhile "folks like me" who continue to buy the Malden product can hope that Feuerstein's beloved employees or their successors will benefit in some smalll way. And in doing so, "folks like me" will be getting a superior product.
If you are buying something with the Malden Mills label that ain't made in the USA you sure as heck aren't helping his employees.