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Dainon
09-28-2004, 09:34
Previously I started a thread with quite a number of stupid rookie questions and received lots of good info/advice. That said, I'd like to do another. I've read lots of books on the AT and lightweight hiking, along with nearly every thread here, but there are some questions that I can't seem to find an answer for. Apologies if the reason is that they're too stupid to ask.

First, I've always assumed that the "Leave No Trace" rule is literal. However, if you carry stuff like apples, bananas, oranges, do you carry out the peel, core, etc? That's fine with me if that's the case, but I read about someone who buried the stuff in a cat hole.

Second, In Schuette's book "White Blaze Fever," there is an entry in which he describes what seems like an imperative for him to hike from the Nantahala Outdoor Center to Brown Fork Gap Shelter (a 16 mile day). Yet the Databook clearly indicates that Stecoah Gap, which has a picnic table and thus I'm guessing it's ok to camp there is 2.5 miles closer. That raises the question of why it seems that so many stay in shelter areas? Is there an unstated rule to stay in shelters if at all possible?

Third, in regard to resupply in towns, assume that you run out of coffee or oatmeal or whatever is nearly always sold in 1-pound increments, do you carry that amount or just take whatever you will need and discard the rest?

A related question concerns shampoo, razors, etc. While you might not use that stuff on the trail itself, while in a hostel and if you want to get cleaned up, do they supply that stuff or sell it in small single-use amounts? What I getting at is do you buy the smallest bottle, use what you need for that single use, and toss the rest?

Fifth, I've decided to do the section from Springer to Hot Springs, NC in May (circumstances prevented me from doing it last month). I've allotted 4 weeks (+/- a couple of days) to do it. I bought the "southern section" maps from ATC, but after looking at them, I wonder if they're worth carrying. From what I've read, that section of the AT is well marked, so is there any reason to pack the maps?

Finally, as I mentioned, I'll be hiking in May -- is there any need to carry a sleeping bag at that time of the year? I'd think that replacing a sleeping bag with a heavier pair of pants/long sleeve shirt and, say, a polyester sheet with thermarest would save space and weight. Am I missing something?

Thanks in advance for any info and comments that you have.

BTW, the "gear list" threads have been particularly helpful, and I'd bet that I'm not the only rookie who thinks that way

Blue Jay
09-28-2004, 10:02
Very good questions, some of them not often asked.
1) No matter what you do there will be someone who objects. I believe the most important thing is to keep fruit and vegetable residue out of sight of the trail and where there is no way animals are attracted to areas where people camp.
2) Unless there is a sign stating you cannot camp in certain areas you are rarely required to hike any specific milage and certainly not in this case.
3) Often in towns there are hiker boxes at Hostels and/or Post Offices where you can give excess to other hikers or get some yourself. I am cheap so I often carry the whole pound. Others are more weight sensitive so they discard it if there is no hiker box or people to give it to.
4) I use Dr. Bonners for washing everything pots and me.
5) Maps are not required, however I always carry them in case of emergency and I or others have to get off the trail fast for whatever reason.
6) I have used just a fleece bag with a silk liner in the summer, however I've also had to get up and hike in the middle of the night because I was freezing. Going light always has it's own risks.

Tabasco
09-28-2004, 10:03
Howdy Neighbor!

I hiked from the NOC to Fontana earlier this month, for the record, Stecoah Gap is a small roadside picnic area, (picture a picnic table set up beside Versailles Rd out by Keeneland) I would not camp there due to traffic, road noises and obeying the rule to never camp within 3 miles of a roadcrossing.

Enjoy the hike!

rocket04
09-28-2004, 10:06
Second, In Schuette's book "White Blaze Fever," there is an entry in which he describes what seems like an imperative for him to hike from the Nantahala Outdoor Center to Brown Fork Gap Shelter (a 16 mile day). Yet the Databook clearly indicates that Stecoah Gap, which has a picnic table and thus I'm guessing it's ok to camp there is 2.5 miles closer. That raises the question of why it seems that so many stay in shelter areas? Is there an unstated rule to stay in shelters if at all possible?As far as I know, that's a personal choice for each to make. Some people hate staying in shelters and almost never do, others prefer the shelters.


Third, in regard to resupply in towns, assume that you run out of coffee or oatmeal or whatever is nearly always sold in 1-pound increments, do you carry that amount or just take whatever you will need and discard the rest?Those are some items that a lot of people maildrop to themselves precisely because they are not available in small quantities, so they pack smaller amounts in ziplocks. But otherwise, some people look for other hikers they can share/split the costs for those things, others discard what they don't need as you say. You could also put them in a bounce box, I suppose.



A related question concerns shampoo, razors, etc. While you might not use that stuff on the trail itself, while in a hostel and if you want to get cleaned up, do they supply that stuff or sell it in small single-use amounts? What I getting at is do you buy the smallest bottle, use what you need for that single use, and toss the rest?Some hostels do, others don't. Sometimes, it depends on if you get lucky and there's some that a previous hiker left. The hostels themselves usually don't sell any as far as I recall. What you can do is see if there is any, if there isn't then you can buy a big bottle/bar of soap and leave it for the next hikers. That'll be your contribution to making the trail a little better for others!


Fifth, I've decided to do the section from Springer to Hot Springs, NC in May (circumstances prevented me from doing it last month). I've allotted 4 weeks (+/- a couple of days) to do it. I bought the "southern section" maps from ATC, but after looking at them, I wonder if they're worth carrying. From what I've read, that section of the AT is well marked, so is there any reason to pack the maps?I personally didn't feel like maps were worth carrying over the entire AT. Depends if you need to figure out road crossings because you have people picking you up in different places, etc. If you're just going through with regular re-supply stops, Wingfoot's handbook or the companion and data book are all you need. The nice thing about maps is the elevation profiles which give you an idea how tough the climbs can get, but I didn't miss them.


Finally, as I mentioned, I'll be hiking in May -- is there any need to carry a sleeping bag at that time of the year? I'd think that replacing a sleeping bag with a heavier pair of pants/long sleeve shirt and, say, a polyester sheet with thermarest would save space and weight. Am I missing something?If you're going up to Hot Springs, you'll be going through the Smokies, and maybe it can get cold there. Not sure though, but somebody else will be able to answer this I'm sure.

SGT Rock
09-28-2004, 10:07
First, I've always assumed that the "Leave No Trace" rule is literal. However, if you carry stuff like apples, bananas, oranges, do you carry out the peel, core, etc? That's fine with me if that's the case, but I read about someone who buried the stuff in a cat hole.

Use common sense on that. If something like an apple core will degrade quickly, there is no harm burying it. You will always be right if you carry stuff out though. What is annoying and you will see it is folks just throwing stuff like that in fire rings like they are some sort of magical trash destroying trash can.


Second, In Schuette's book "White Blaze Fever," there is an entry in which he describes what seems like an imperative for him to hike from the Nantahala Outdoor Center to Brown Fork Gap Shelter (a 16 mile day). Yet the Databook clearly indicates that Stecoah Gap, which has a picnic table and thus I'm guessing it's ok to camp there is 2.5 miles closer. That raises the question of why it seems that so many stay in shelter areas? Is there an unstated rule to stay in shelters if at all possible?

No, there is no rule that says stay in a shelter except in places like GSMP. However, the gap is on a road, and you want to stay away from roads typically since roads are near civilization and sometimes you get party kids coming to places like that which makes for less than restfull nights.


Third, in regard to resupply in towns, assume that you run out of coffee or oatmeal or whatever is nearly always sold in 1-pound increments, do you carry that amount or just take whatever you will need and discard the rest?

Near towns in some shelters and hostels you can find a hiker box where someone has already left what they don't want to carry. You could also split with another hiker when you go into town. Some places like Rainbow Springs also broke stuff down where you could buy individual packets of oatmeal or grits and the like so you could plan out and get only what you need. But if you get more than you need, you might find a hiker box in a post office, hostl, or nearby shelter and leave off you extras for someone else.


A related question concerns shampoo, razors, etc. While you might not use that stuff on the trail itself, while in a hostel and if you want to get cleaned up, do they supply that stuff or sell it in small single-use amounts? What I getting at is do you buy the smallest bottle, use what you need for that single use, and toss the rest?

Some of the places I have stayed already had leftovers from other hikers at the shower. Check the hostel out before you buy. You can also get a 1 ounce bottle and carry some Dr Bronners which works as shampo and soap if you need it as that. Works for on the trail or in a hostel. If you stay in a hotel, they almost universally have soap and shampo available these days.


Fifth, I've decided to do the section from Springer to Hot Springs, NC in May (circumstances prevented me from doing it last month). I've allotted 4 weeks (+/- a couple of days) to do it. I bought the "southern section" maps from ATC, but after looking at them, I wonder if they're worth carrying. From what I've read, that section of the AT is well marked, so is there any reason to pack the maps?

Bring the maps. Just my opinion. Sure the trail is marked, but what about the side trails? What about the trips to towns and such? What about emergencies? What about just reading the maps for the fun of it?


Finally, as I mentioned, I'll be hiking in May -- is there any need to carry a sleeping bag at that time of the year? I'd think that replacing a sleeping bag with a heavier pair of pants/long sleeve shirt and, say, a polyester sheet with thermarest would save space and weight. Am I missing something?

BRING A SLEEPING BAG! I have had weather in the 30s at altitude in even July. You will spend time above 5,000 and 6,000 feet. The weight savings over the most possible loss of comfort is not worth it.

chris
09-28-2004, 10:14
You might get a few different opinions, particularly on the map question. Here are mine.

1. I tend not to bring fruit into the backcountry, but when I do I tend to pitch the core and remnants well off into the woods. If people are around, I'm generally too embarassed to do this and pack out the core. So, take my actions for what they are worth.

2. Stecoah Gap is a road and right before a really nasty climb. Brown Fork is after that climb and it makes sense to put it behind one. People stay in shelters for many reasons. Some are lazy and don't want to put up camp. It rains alot on the AT and shelters are nice in the rain. Since the AT, in itself, isn't very interesting, the people around you become very important and shelters are a good place to talk with old friends (who you might have met yesterday) and meet new ones. Personally, I could only stand shelters for about 3 nights in a row before I had to camp by myself.

3. You can buy bulk coffee in a lot of markets. But, most likely you'll end up with a pound or 10 oz. worth at a time. Never buy oatmeal. Every hiker box (box with supplies donated by other hikers found in towns) has bags upon bags of this stuff. One solution to buying a quantity and then pitching what you don't need is to get a drift box (a box that you mail to send to yourself along the trail). If you really want to save the $2 in oatmeal, you can put it into your box and send it up ahead.

4. Some hostels sell single use stuff, but most don't. Eventually, cleaning up will mean taking a shower or swimming in a lake, and doing laundry. However, you can put these supplies into a drift box and then be able to clean up every 10 days or so.

5. My opinions on this have changed some what. If you are new to the AT and the woods in general, I would bring the maps. It is pretty hard to get lost on the AT, but you might need to bail somewhere, etc, etc. Personally, however, unless I hike in Maine, I'll never bring maps on the AT again.

6. Yes, bring a sleeping bag. I have had sub-freezing temperatures in May in that area. A polyester liner just won't cut it. I saw a lot of people suffering this year in Virginia with liners or cut-rate Marmot bags (40 degrees my arse). Suffering from the cold in mid May. I have a genuine 40 degree bag from Western Mountaineering and was fine. The sleeping bag weighs 19 oz. Most fleece liners weigh more than that.

Spirit Walker
09-28-2004, 10:21
1- Yes, carry out orange peels and banana peels, etc. - they take some time to disintegrate. LNT means what it says. Too many ignorant and inconsiderate hikers leave their mess for others to clean up. ("Someone will burn my trash." I was told by one hiker. "I don't need to." People used to bury their tin cans in the woods - you'll sometimes still find the caches where they have been dug up by animals. What was accepted practice then is no longer acceptable.

2. People stay near shelters partly because that is where there is water and partly for social reasons and partly because many hikers want to be inside in case it rains. On the AT it often rains. After a while you find yourself less bound by the shelters, more likely to just cook at the shelter and move on somewhere quieter to camp or just carry water from the shelter to a nice campsite. In the beginning a lot of hikers feel bound to keep to a schedule that they created before they started their hike. The smart ones toss the schedule before it gets them hurt. Life is much more pleasant when you aren't bound by arbitrary shelter mileage.


3. Many people use a drift box that they send from town to town that has the extras - things like your coffee, tea bags, ibuprofin, shampoo, soap (refill a smaller bottle from the big bottle), maps, etc. I buy a large package, take what I need and ship the rest forward. If you don't want that extra hassle, then leave the extra in the hiker box. Someone will be able to use it.

4. Sleeping bag - at 4000-5000' it can get chilly in May. We had snow in early May on both my thruhikes. Carry a summer bag - 30 - 40 degrees. I used a 20 deg bag the whole way and was happy with it. In the mountains, after a day of rain it can get cool, and usually after a front passes through there is a cold front for a couple of days that can make you uncomfortable if you don't have a jacket or sleeping bag. I have tried using a fleece liner as a summer bag and nearly froze. Mid-July in the mid-Atlantic you can get by with a sheet, but May is too early for that.

kentucky
09-28-2004, 10:23
I would bring my sleeping bag! what you dont realize is that your body will cool down so much after you hike and at night,and you might not need it every night so i would bring a fleece blanket or something lighter,just an opinion kentucky!

Rain Man
09-28-2004, 12:16
I was way chilly in August on Standing Indian Mountain in NC in a fleece blanket on a Therm-a-Rest. I'm taking a sleeping bag next time!

May (or did you say October?) is even colder and the Smokies are even higher, I do believe.

Rain Man

.

rocket04
09-28-2004, 12:43
2. Stecoah Gap is a road and right before a really nasty climb.
Ah, the memories... Forgot to comment on that. I remember that part well, I was at the end of a 16 miler and got to Stecoah Gap. From there it's 2.4 miles to the shelter, with a quarter mile bit that was just brutal. And all I had eaten were 2 pop-tarts for lunch. By the time I reached the top I had to dig into my pack for some snickers because I had nothing left. Obviously, it's nothing compared to some of the climbs later on, but at the time it was a pain in the ass!

chris
09-28-2004, 13:02
I had my first 20 mile day, ever, in this section. From Wesser shelter (I think. before NOC) to Brown Fork. I was a little bit tired.

Tin Man
09-28-2004, 13:17
Great advice from all.

On my annual section hike, which starts tomorrow morning in VT :clap , I carry dried fruit. In addition to not having to worry about the waste, you do not have to carry the weight of the waste or the water that is dried out of the fruit. My hiking partner does not care for it, but he is my brother and will just have to deal with it. Others may disagree, but I find it to be tasty and convenient. I buy the packaged stuff rather than drying my own. I do not know how available it is along the trail, but you could always mail or bounce some along the way and supplement the dried stuff with real fruit while in town.

MOWGLI
09-28-2004, 13:37
I had my first 20 mile day, ever, in this section. From Wesser shelter (I think. before NOC) to Brown Fork. I was a little bit tired.

My first 20 was from Sassafras Gap to NOC. That was a butt kicker of a day for me.

SalParadise
09-28-2004, 14:03
Stecoah Gap? If I remember right, that was the worst climb for me on the first third of the Trail. Wasn't that just before Sweetwater Gap? I think I nearly fell backwards twice due to the grade. I didn't even have the breath to curse that hill out loud. The PUD that tops all others.
It's a little bit easier to stay in a shelter than set up a tent, but I think so many hikers use them just because that's where all the company is.
...I don't understand the motivation to bury degradeable foodwastes since it's good food for the animals, and they're going to smell it underground anyway. I figure as long as it's away from a shelter might as well just give it a good toss.

NotYet
09-28-2004, 16:55
1) "LNT principles" do mean that you literally carry it out...all of my fruit is lighter after being consumed; so a peel or core in a ziplock shouldn't be a big deal! (But, if you do toss an apple core near an apple tree, you're probably not committing a huge foul!..NOTE: there are no orange or banana trees bearing fruit along the AT) :)

3) Hiker boxes are often around...I'm fairly frugal, and I find it cheaper to buy in bulk, separate it out at home, and use maildrops.

4) I used maildrops for this, too...but often hostel's have stuff left behind by others.

5) Yes, the trail is well marked, but always carry maps! See Jack Tarlin's excellent and thorough answer to this question in today's thread "Map Questions...".

6) May can be a very cold month in the Southern Appalachians!

Flash Hand
09-30-2004, 06:35
Thinking about washing yourself with Dr. Bonner? think twice about using it on your gentials otherwise, youll feel funny down there especially during cold days. :bse

Flash Hand :jump

Morning Glory
09-30-2004, 10:52
Finally, as I mentioned, I'll be hiking in May -- is there any need to carry a sleeping bag at that time of the year? I'd think that replacing a sleeping bag with a heavier pair of pants/long sleeve shirt and, say, a polyester sheet with thermarest would save space and weight. Am I missing something?

You will want a sleeping bag. I've been camping at lower elevations in GSMNP in mid may, and it got down in the 30's at night. I tried to use one of those fleece sleeping bags that you can get at walmart for a trip this August for a trip here in TN, and one of the evenings I got a little chilly. Besides, the warmth factor, a sleeping bag also adds a little extra cushioning that a fleece will not provide. In my opionion, the sleeping bag is a couple extra lbs. that's very worthwhile carrying. How you sleep at night can really have an effect on how many miles you can put in on the following day.