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freefall
02-23-2010, 17:19
I've never used map software accept when walking by the kiosk in REI, I usually just buy maps for the regions I hike in.

Being that I already have 6 of the 30 or so maps of CO and chances are, I won't be hiking in some of the areas, would there be any benefit to getting the software for CO over just buying individual maps as I need them?

$100 at one shot + some way of waterproofing the maps vs $12 a shot for new waterproof maps. (Over half my hiking in CO will more than likely be in the regions I already have.)

Any thoughts?

climber2377
02-23-2010, 17:38
what would you use to read the software maps? what if the batteries die and you get lost? sounds like you have what you need already, so why would you venture into the realm of digital mapping? do you have a gps already?

freefall
02-23-2010, 17:45
what would you use to read the software maps? what if the batteries die and you get lost? sounds like you have what you need already, so why would you venture into the realm of digital mapping? do you have a gps already?
Clarification. I'm talking about the National Geographic software for the PC. You print out the sections you need (or load it to GPS) and take them with you. I don't use a GPS as I know maps are closer to accurate.

leaftye
02-23-2010, 19:58
I don't use a GPS as I know maps are closer to accurate.

Not if you upload those maps you're printing into a gps. That said, kudos if you're confident and skilled enough to navigate precisely off trail with a map and compass.

freefall
02-23-2010, 20:16
Not if you upload those maps you're printing into a gps. That said, kudos if you're confident and skilled enough to navigate precisely off trail with a map and compass.
I am confident in my orienteering abilities and its really nothing against GPS users. Just all the stories about people getting led on roads that don't exist, etc... using GPS in the back country.
I'm sure most on here and in the hiking community take the time to learn their GPS unit and know when something doesn't look right, to question it.

scottdennis
02-25-2010, 10:42
I use both. I use the software to do a lot of the planning. I rarely if ever mark up my topos. I usually write down my Lat/Longs or a grid coordinate if it something I ever want to find again (i.e. prime fishing hole). I can mark up my software without having to worry about it.

The major downside is that you can't carry software out in the bush with you. Perhaps if I had a color laser printer the printout would be better and I would laminate those and use them. But I'm still partial to the actual USGS maps.

I like to use GPS, but I don't rely on it too much because reception can be spotty sometimes.

Kerosene
02-25-2010, 13:04
Using a GPS to help guide you on roads is one thing, with the attendant drawbacks that are more an issue with the roads database than the GPS satellites. The sats will provide a correct reading in the backcountry, assuming that you have line-of-sight to at least 3 of them, which can be tough in heavily wooded forest or steep-walled canyons/gaps/gullies. If I was going to really go backcountry (not the AT), I'd consider bringing map, compass and GPS (not sure about a SPOT or PLB yet, though!).

freefall
02-25-2010, 17:37
Was at REI last night for a class and looked at the software again. Just couldn't being myself to get it and purchased one more map instead.

I use Google Earth a lot for planning in tandem with the maps.

I used to use grease pencils on my water-proof maps as it comes off but haven't done that in a while.

Thinking if I get a laser printer, I might be more inclined to use the software to print out maps instead though.

kayak karl
02-25-2010, 18:07
i print these topos for free and spray with waterproofing for kayaking.
http://store.usgs.gov/b2c_usgs/usgs/maplocator/%28ctype=areaDetails&carea=%24ROOT&layout=6_1_61_48&uiarea=2%29/.do

example --ignore plug-in. Adobe will open it. click NO

scottdennis
02-25-2010, 20:15
One of the best ways I know to navigate is in the book The Green Beret Compass Course. You don't need a map and you use travel vectors. If you track your vectors you can lay them out and shoot a bee-line back to your starting position.

Depending what you are doing this sort of application could be quite useful (i.e. hunting, sneaky feeting behind enemy lines, etc.) Regardless, it's useful to know.

Wise Old Owl
02-25-2010, 21:19
what would you use to read the software maps? what if the batteries die and you get lost? sounds like you have what you need already, so why would you venture into the realm of digital mapping? do you have a gps already?

Although you have been here a year at WB, in your post you quoted all the negative and old fashioned ideas about navigation, that has been said for years here at WB. - nuts... wait would you hike around with an astrolab? Ever took batteries out of a flashlight to take a digital camera picture? Perhaps a second set of AA's? I am not calling you out, but that retoric is getting very old....


I use both. I use the software to do a lot of the planning. I rarely if ever mark up my topos. I usually write down my Lat/Longs or a grid coordinate if it something I ever want to find again (i.e. prime fishing hole). I can mark up my software without having to worry about it.

The major downside is that you can't carry software out in the bush with you. Perhaps if I had a color laser printer the printout would be better and I would laminate those and use them. But I'm still partial to the actual USGS maps.

I like to use GPS, but I don't rely on it too much because reception can be spotty sometimes.

Scottdennis, the new ones have far more sensitive recievers and maps internal to boot, sounds like you have an early starter model...no need for a color laser printer....


Using a GPS to help guide you on roads is one thing, with the attendant drawbacks that are more an issue with the roads database than the GPS satellites. The sats will provide a correct reading in the backcountry, assuming that you have line-of-sight to at least 3 of them, which can be tough in heavily wooded forest or steep-walled canyons/gaps/gullies. If I was going to really go backcountry (not the AT), I'd consider bringing map, compass and GPS (not sure about a SPOT or PLB yet, though!).

That's good advice, Gps, compass and maps are priceless in the back country, not so much on the AT but folks do get confused once in a while.

An additional answer - with the software you can make your own maps, highlight and add notes about places to visit or make a diary of your old trips! I even add six of the best photos for my personal journal and dates of the trip. I print on normal paper and slide it inside a plastic sheet protector, when they wear out I toss them and reprint.

fiddlehead
02-25-2010, 21:38
Although my CDT maps have now done that trail 5 times (and are getting pretty ragged looking) I still would take them along as a backup to my GPS.
I never lose signal with my new one if I'm outside of a concrete building. (Garmin 60 CSX)
Batteries last much longer than older models.
Trails can be found online and put into the GPS.

Yes, the CO Trails Illustrated maps are expensive. (what really sucks is when you have to buy one of them just for 3 miles of your trip or so.)

If you are hiking anywhere near the CDT, it might be wise to download and print out Jonathan Ley's maps for the area as a backup.

Also the USGS maps, in 7 1/2 minute, are now downloadable for free on the net I believe.
I don't ever plan on buying maps again.

Wise Old Owl
02-25-2010, 21:54
Thanks Kayak Karl - wow Mullica, guess I have to do it! http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/2008_0617Image0015.jpg

scottdennis
02-25-2010, 22:00
Although you have been here a year at WB, in your post you quoted all the negative and old fashioned ideas about navigation, that has been said for years here at WB. - nuts... wait would you hike around with an astrolab? Ever took batteries out of a flashlight to take a digital camera picture? Perhaps a second set of AA's? I am not calling you out, but that retoric is getting very old....



Scottdennis, the new ones have far more sensitive recievers and maps internal to boot, sounds like you have an early starter model...no need for a color laser printer....



That's good advice, Gps, compass and maps are priceless in the back country, not so much on the AT but folks do get confused once in a while.

An additional answer - with the software you can make your own maps, highlight and add notes about places to visit or make a diary of your old trips! I even add six of the best photos for my personal journal and dates of the trip. I print on normal paper and slide it inside a plastic sheet protector, when they wear out I toss them and reprint.

Just so you know, my job in the Marine Corps was to jump out of a plane, sneaky feet around. blow stuff up, and give intel. With that said, I used the real deal when it came to GPS technology (civilian models don't even compare).

Why do I point this out? Because I would not even think about relying solely on GPS. I can't even begin to tell you how many times the cloud cover was too thick, or the tree canopy was interfering, or solar flares, or whatever was causing sporadic reception at BEST.

I have a very accurate GPS and know how to use it completely. So when I advise someone to have a map and compass I know what I'm talking about. One fall and/or one drop and that "more sensitive receiver" won't be receiving much any more.

Also, having color topos is CERTAINLY better than having a black and white (and I don't particularly care to burn through the color inkjet cartridges either). Color shows a host of things that could be beneficial to the navigator. I can dead reckon a whole lot faster if I can see various aspects in color versus black and white.

You may consider my advice archaic, but I consider it to be what your name says. . .wise.

fiddlehead
02-25-2010, 22:16
So when I advise someone to have a map and compass I know what I'm talking about. One fall and/or one drop and that "more sensitive receiver" won't be receiving much any more.


It's not that i disbelieve what you did in the service, or that the army's GPS units were pretty good.

But, I hike here in southeast Asia, and it is triple canopy jungle (google it if you don't know what that means) and I have never lost signal with my Garmin 60 CSX when i'm out there. (or on the AT back in PA, even in a snowstorm)

This is really an amazing difference compared to the other models I've had.
Maybe you got out of the Army before they had these much better models.

Also, I have dropped my GPS countless times (I would guess 35 times???)
I have hiked with it in 2 day monsoon downpours.
It is waterproof.
It still works fine.

I'm not trying to tell you to rely solely on a GPS at all here.
That is not my point.

My point is that you shouldn't be telling others that GPS's are as bad as you think they are.

The new ones are pretty amazing and I imagine they are going to get even better.

scottdennis
02-25-2010, 22:33
You must not have read my post. I said I LIKE to use GPS. I'm very familiar with the type of triple canopy you speak of (Okinawa, Japan).

If you can't use a map and compass as equally well as you can use a GPS then you're using technology as a crutch. Like I said, there are a million and one things that can happen to render your GPS in to an expensive time piece.

Again, I'm completely and utterly familiar with the use of GPS and GPS technology. So when I say, you need a map and compass and the skills to use it, I'm not just willy nilly knee jerk reaction saying it.

(NOTE: We have a certain country seeking nukes that just shot a rocket in to space. China or Russia could do it right now! I'm not a conspiracy nut, just prudent about not foolishly relying solely on technology. Is this likely? Not really. But there are a lot of other more likely scenarios that could make your GPS an expensive paper weight.)

scottdennis
02-25-2010, 22:36
Please understand I'm not being argumentative, but don't put words in my mouth. It's not sanitary.