WARNING!! WATCH OUT FOR BEE"S!!!

[Miss Janet]

I am not sure what is going on but maybe the rain and wind from recent storms have really stirred up the yellow jackets in our area. For the second time in just a few days a hiker has recieved multiple bee stings on the trail.


This time the hiker could have died from the attack. This man disturbed a nest almost directly on the trail and was stung as many as 40 times. He ran away and then collapsed on the trail. When he regained conciousness he was very sick and knew that he could not make it out. It was raining and he made the decision to set his tent up and try to get some rest. He made it to a road this morning and hitched back into Erwin where I took him to the local emergency room. He was swollen really bad from the stings and experiencing chest pain. They determined that he had had a heart attack but don't know if it brought on by the great number of stings or if the anxiety brought on the heart attack. He is undergoing heart catheterization right now and could use all of your good wishes.

[MOWGLI]

I am not sure what is going on but maybe the rain and wind from recent storms have really stirred up the yellow jackets in our area.

I led a hike on the Cumberland Trail on Saturday and got stung on the arse about 200 yards from the trailhead. Another woman on the hike bit her sandwich and there was a bee on it. She was stung in the mouth.

My first question (before we leave the parking lot) whenever I lead a hike is, "is anyone alergic to bees?".

[NotYet]

They know the cold is on the way; so this is the time of year when yellow jackets tend to be even more angry and tempermental than usual. And those things are always MEAN! The additional rain has probably made it even worse since their nests are in the ground.

I don't know about other states, but North Carolina offers epinephrine training and certification. Anaphylaxis is a severe allergic reaction that can rapidly result in death. A person can develop this allergy without ever exhibiting symptoms before. I carry epinephrine and benedryl when I hike in case someone were to be stung and go into anaphylaxic shock.

Epinephrine needs a prescription, but the training is very simple. If your state offers it, I highly recommend having this tool with you.

p.s. If you have one sting, your more likely to get more stings...the others smell the scent and attack! RUN!!!!

[Tractor]

NOT something I want to share with my wife though.........

[Jersey Bob]

at least 10 characters

[Miss Janet]

He is in his early sixties and in very good hiking condition. He has been on the AT for several weeks and was feeling well before this. The DR. decided to wait until tomorrow to do the procedure and he was resting well when I left the hostpital.

[Pencil Pusher]

...I carry epinephrine and benedryl when I hike in case someone were to be stung and go into anaphylaxic shock.

Epinephrine needs a prescription, but the training is very simple. If your state offers it, I highly recommend having this tool with you.
What is this epinephrine, a shot? Anaphylaxic shock? I'm a bit medically-challenged... It sounds like heart attack stuff but maybe you could tell more?

[Pole Climber]

I was doing a section hike betwen Delvers Fork Gap and Hot Springs in Sept. '02. Got stung twice, it really hurt. Can't, imagine being stung that many times. I hope he will be O.K.

[shades of blue]

Miss Janet
Do you know where on the trail he was stung? Two years ago I ran into a similar problem a few miles south of Erwin. The nest was in an old log, directly on the trail. Fortunately I saw and heard the critters and avoided them. It was a huge nest. I wonder if these guys are still living there. It was just after a gap. I can visualize the place in my mind, there was a logging road that joined in from the left. Can't remember the name of the gap though.

[NotYet]

Hi Pencil Pusher,

I'm not a doctor, but this is my understanding of anaphylaxis and epinephrine.

Anaphylaxis is a severe system-wide allergic reaction. It causes the blood vessels to dilate; so there isn't enough pressure to move the blood around. Also, it causes widespread swelling of tissue, and this can lead to airway obstruction. In severe cases, death can occur within minutes.

Epinephrine is a synthetic version of the body's hormone adrenaline. It is injected when the signs and symptoms indicate that a person is having a systemic (system-wide) allergic reaction. The epinephrine opens the airway. However, it doesn't prevent the person from having a rebound reaction; so benedryl, or another antihistimine, is given as soon as the patient can swallow. This helps prevent rebound reactions, but the patient needs to be evacuated immediately and taken to the emergency room.

Epinephrine is prescribed for people to carry if they've exihibited symptoms in the past, but in NC (and hopefully other states) you can be certified to carry this life-saving medicine if you've been through a training.

Hopefully, a doctor will chime-in to clarify any parts of this explanation that I might have mangled or gotten wrong! As for the man that Miss Janet described, you would have to determine if the signs and symptoms were those of a systemic allergic reaction, or those of a heart attack...epinephrine makes the heart race; so I would think you'd want to avoid giving it to someone having a heart attack...hmmm, Doctors?

[Magic City]

I'm not a doctor but I was a paramedic for more than 20 years. Your information is correct. In an anaphylaxis, epinephrine will (often) act to open the airway, but it does not reverse the effects of the allergic reaction. That's where Benadryl comes in handy. Anyone planning on hiking the AT who is allergic to bee stings should certainly discuss this with his/her doctor in advance, and should be carrying an epi kit. Using an epi pen is very simple, so much so that even young children can learn to use one.

[MOWGLI]

Yellow Jacket populations can fluctuate pretty dramatically. In 2003 while constructing the Cumberland Trail (just north of Chattanooga) the Cumberland Trail Conference ran into new nest sites just about every single day. The areas around the nests, mostly always ground nests, were taped off with orange tape.

This year, there was hardly any problems with stinging insects during trail construction. I'm sure the weather has something to do with it, but we had a very mild winter in 2003/04. Go figure??

I feel bad for this hiker who was stung 40 times. One sting is unpleasant enough.

[Morning Glory]

Miss Janet
Do you know where on the trail he was stung? Two years ago I ran into a similar problem a few miles south of Erwin. The nest was in an old log, directly on the trail. Fortunately I saw and heard the critters and avoided them. It was a huge nest. I wonder if these guys are still living there. It was just after a gap. I can visualize the place in my mind, there was a logging road that joined in from the left. Can't remember the name of the gap though.My bet that it's within the last mile coming down the mountain to the Nolichucky (if you're going nobo). If you're going sobo, be careful in those first few miles after Uncle Johnny's. I was up hiking there going nobo about a month ago, and there was a log across the path with bees in it. The nice thing was, for the northbounders, someone had written a warning with chalk on a rock right in front of the log. Southbounders may not be warned though. Anyway, further down the trial, probably within 1/2 mile from Uncle Johnny's, a friend of mine ran into some yellow jackets and got stung forr times. He thinks they had a nest in the ground. So, everyone should be really carefull in this area.

[walkin' wally]

Sometimes it isn't much fun thinking of the long winter that is coming here in the north, but at least a couple of killing frosts will take care of most of the bee problems.

[Jersey Bob]

at least 10 characters

[shades of blue]

Mr. Clean...I believe that was the place...
thanks.

[Flash Hand]

If this is a continuing problem, why don't hiking clubs do something about setting up signs, post or written paper warning the hikers to be on alert for the bee stings. It will be a life saving efforts.

Flash Hand :jump

[mountaineer]

I'm not a doctor but I was a paramedic for more than 20 years. Your information is correct. In an anaphylaxis, epinephrine will (often) act to open the airway, but it does not reverse the effects of the allergic reaction. That's where Benadryl comes in handy. Anyone planning on hiking the AT who is allergic to bee stings should certainly discuss this with his/her doctor in advance, and should be carrying an epi kit. Using an epi pen is very simple, so much so that even young children can learn to use one.

If it is not possible to have an epi kit, will Benedryl alone help?

[Magic City]

If it is not possible to have an epi kit, will Benedryl alone help?
In a true anaphylactic emergency, probably not, because it won't open the airway quickly enough. Keep in mind, however, that allergic reactions from bee stings are not always anaphylactic, so it probably wouldn't hurt to have benadryl.

[MOWGLI]

If this is a continuing problem, why don't hiking clubs do something about setting up signs, post or written paper warning the hikers to be on alert for the bee stings. It will be a life saving efforts.

Flash Hand :jump

It's like anything else. If a hiker is allergic to bees, they know that they are taking a risk when they go backpacking during warmer temperatures.

For similar reasons, I don't want to see signs indicating that all water should be boiled or treated at every single stream crossing along the trail.

Just my .02

[smokymtnsteve]

WARNING...

you can slip and fall on a rock, or muddy spot,

do we post warning signs at all rocks and wet , muddy spots?

[anneandbenhike]

I was stung on the jaw by a very angry yellow jacket during Hurricane Frances rains, on Cove MT. just before Bobblet's shelter, in early September. I am sure the heavy rains were the problem, along with the fall, when the 'jackets are much more agressive and protective of their nests. We did see one hole in the ground the following day where the bees were flying in and out continuously. We just went by very slowly, though I wanted to RUN by.

[Magic City]

When I was a kid I tripped and fell into a brush pile out in the woods. Before I realized it, there were hornets all around me. I panicked and couldn't free one of my arms right away, ending up with a large gash in my arm from ripping it out of whatever branch or stick was holding it, and dozens of stings. By the time I got home, I couldn't even see out of one of my eyes. But we didn't go to doctors then, as long as we were still breathing. Still, it turned out to be a painful day, but I was okay by the next morning.

[NotYet]

If it is not possible to have an epi kit, will Benedryl alone help?


My understanding is that Benedryl might even help prevent an allergic reaction from progressing to an anaphylactic stage (sometimes anaphylaxis can be slow in developing). The Benedryl is more like a "cure", while the epi is like an emergency stop gap to keep the patient breathing long enough for the Benedryl to kick in. I carry antihistimines even when I don't have epinephrine with me.

[Miss Janet]

The hiker that was stung by bees has been released from the hospital. The heart catherization proceedure found no major problems so he was cleared to leave this afternoon. He looked really good and was complaining only of severe itching! He will be back on the trail I am sure. Just remember to be careful out there!

[Flash Hand]

It's like anything else. If a hiker is allergic to bees, they know that they are taking a risk when they go backpacking during warmer temperatures.

For similar reasons, I don't want to see signs indicating that all water should be boiled or treated at every single stream crossing along the trail.

Just my .02


Oh yeah, water is everywhere but bee's nest is not abundant like water. They are mostly off the trail, but very few, like this one is on the trail. Believe me, you wont see any more than 2 or 3 bee nests on the trail from GA to ME. I would suggest a paper with clear plastic cover it and stapled it on the tree for a few weeks or until the bees decided to move somewhere else.

Flash Hand :jump

[Flash Hand]

When I was a kid I tripped and fell into a brush pile out in the woods. Before I realized it, there were hornets all around me. I panicked and couldn't free one of my arms right away, ending up with a large gash in my arm from ripping it out of whatever branch or stick was holding it, and dozens of stings. By the time I got home, I couldn't even see out of one of my eyes. But we didn't go to doctors then, as long as we were still breathing. Still, it turned out to be a painful day, but I was okay by the next morning.

Two incidents.

When was stung by wasp, my dad knows the solution to help cooling down the wounds was to put water in the soil and made it into mud and then scoop it out and spread it on the wound.. the pain went away in a flash.


And, when I was mischief little camper, I saw numerous of bees, could be honeybees or maybe yellowjackets, hovering around the old tree stumps, and decided to make an experiment with their aggression, and decided to throw towels and it landed on them and asked another camper, appeared to be looking nerd, and if he can pick it up for me.. he said SURE and went and picked this towel up, and about 5 seconds later, he screamed and ran... obviously he was targeted by an angry bee. *evil snickering*

and I promise.. I never will repeat those pranks because it is now considered life threatening to some humans.

Flash Hand :jump

[minnesotasmith]

Whenever the air temps are below 45 degrees F., the bees/wasps/yellowjackets are all supposed to be largely too sluggish to fly. IMO that means that in spring or fall, try going through known high-hymenoptera areas very early in the morning. Likewise, they don't fly much at night, so you have IMO a risk reduction option usable even in the summer heat.

[pdhoffman]

Since I am the subject of this thread, I thought that I would provide some more details and answer some of the questions asked and implied by the discussion. To fill in the who, what, where, when as the journalists say.

First, some background. I am a 63 year old happily retired guy. I hiked last year from Rockfish Gap to Katahdin. I started this year at Rockfish Gap again on August 5 and was headed south to Springer, until so rudely interrupted. So I had been out almost eight weeks and covered over 500 miles.

As to the location of the yellow jacket nest, I can tell you precisely where it is. It is 3.5 miles trail south of the No Business Knob shelter, 1.4 miles trail north of the Rt. 19W crossing. Going south, you cross a stream that is labeled Flattop Mtn. Branch on the topo maps I have. About 10 yards beyond (south) of the stream is the nest on the immediate right side of the trail. The nest is in an old rotten, mossy log. Not a big long log, but a short stub, perhaps two or three feet long.

I left out of Erwin on Sunday about noon and hiked to the No Business Knob shelter for the night. Another northbound section hiker came in late. The shelter register had an entry that there was a yellow jacket nest two miles south. The northbounder said he had heard something to the effect that the nest was in a mossy log near a stream, although he didn't indicate he had seen it.

The next morning, as I am hiking south, I am looking around everytime I come to a stream crossing. After this long on the trail, you become very good at dead reckoning and knowing how far you have traveled. Not seeing anything, I assummed I just missed seeing the nest.

It began to rain slightly, so as I crossed the above mentioned stream, I am looking up at the sky. I stopped and dropped my pack on the left side of the trail to get out the Packa pack cover/jacket. I had stopped right in front of the nest, about two feet behind me. I had actually got the cover out and was putting it on when they hit me. My first thought was "Oh, ****. This is where the yellow jackets are."

I grabbed the pack by the haul strap and semi ran south on the trail, trying to kill some of them as I went. Not exactly sure how many times I got stung - 30, 50 maybe more. I have since learned that yellow jackets are a type of social wasp, with a smooth stinger, so they can sting multiple times. I took about a quarter mile before they left me alone. I dropped my pack again, and then realized that I had left my poles stuck in the dirt back at the nest. Can't go without my poles so back down to the nest. I zipped in and out with only a few after me and went back up to the pack.

At this point, I started feeling very badly and sat down and reclined on my pack. As I lay there, my vision got very blurry. To the point, that I am thinking that even if I could get up, I am not sure I can see well enough to follow the trail. I got some snacks out to eat and drank some Gatorade, hoping to get feeling better. I dropped the bottle and it rolled down a few feet. When I got up to retrieve it, I am pretty sure that I passed out-probably low blood pressure from the adrenaline crash at the point-because I came to lying about 10 feet downslope of the trail, wondering how the hell I got here.

I stayed there probably an hour or more as I slowly started to feel a little better and my vision cleared up. It was also starting to lightly rain. Fortunately, it wasn't particularly cold. I got myself up, put on the pack and slowly and shakely started down to 19W.

There was no traffic on 19W and the cell phone didn't have a signal. I was starting to get cold and shivering, so I decided to camp and get warmed up. There is a stream and campsite on the south side of 19W. I am still thinking that this is all due to the insect stings and that I will recover. Made camp, got water, into dry clothes and into the sleeping bag about 2:30 in the afternoon. The rain was increasing. This was the J hurricane, whatever that name was. I stayed there all night and it rained harder and harder all nightr

[pdhoffman]

Sorry, some sort of computer glitch wouldn't let me add more to the previous message.

I packed up in the morning. I had felt all right, snug and warm in the tent, just too pain killers for the stings so I could sleep. I had thought the various possibilities overnight, i.e., lousy weather/good weather, felt good/felt bad, etc. I had decided to start hiking south, away from the road, and see how I felt as a test. There was a big climb and the higher elevations were obviously socked in. I went about a half mile and 250 foot of climb and decided that I was not feeling particularly well and certainly didn't have over 2000 feet of climbing in me that day. I turned around and went back to 19W and started road walking out. After about two or so miles, there was a house. I asked to use the phone (cell still not working) and got Miss Janets answering machine. When I told the fellow that I was having chest pains, he offered to drive me into Erwin.

Short version of the rest of the story. I ended up at Johnson City Medical Center. I had a mild heart attack brought on by the adrenaline and stings. Catheritization resulted in pictures only, no angioplasty or stents.

Decided that the hike was over for this year. At home now thanks to my youngest daughter who drove me home from Tennessee. Not done by any means, although I am going to hear it from family and friends if I go hiking alone again. That's just life and the chances you take.

Pete Hoffman
Old Corpus

[grrickar]

If you are hiking anywhere near Brown Fork Gap Shelter there is a large yellowjacket nest right in the middle of the trail where there is a switchback. After you climb out of the gap, at the top of a rise you will see a large rhododendron, shortly afterward the trail makes a switchback. We left a duct tape note warning people. We ran into a group of college students from NC and one of them had been stung 5 times before she even realized that the hole in the trail was their nest. The nest is about 5-7 inches in diameter, and it looks as if someone removed a large rock from the center of the trail.