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Treefingers
03-04-2010, 01:04
i feel like many people discourage foraging for wood fuel for your stove. it is the oldest method of creating a heat source for cooking. it can be quite efficient (around 7 minute boils in moderate humidity conditions) and works great when paired with a pot cozy to finish hydrating you meals. there are downsides with every fuel source but wood stoves are just as viable means to cook food as any other fuel set up for cooking

with the proper tinder and kindle foraging skills you can find enough dry fuel to boil water in any conditions as far as Im concerned. you can usually find it right on the trail while your walking and collect it while you hike during the day. evergreens always have dry tinder and kindling underneath the lower boughs that often has some sap on the larger kindling to help with your fire. pair this with a wad of toilet paper and you have your fire starter now all you need is a handful of finger sized pieces of wood. in the winter when there is snow on the ground and the humidity is low, all the dry wood that is deadfall is sticking up out of the snow at underbrush hight on the forest floor and because the deadfall branches are sticking up vertically often, there is a low surface area for snow to accumulate on. and during wetter months it is really not difficult to find a handful of dry sticks during the whole course of the day. yes you will be carrying the weight of your fuel each day, but it is less than carryigg muliple canisters or a weeks worth of alcohol. i am a big fan of wood stoves because fuel is everywhere and it is a cheap and viable method to cook with anywhere there isnt a fire ban. and one last thing to note is that on a long distance hike, you often are forced to purchase more fuel than your carrying capacity and you often wind up leaving costly fuel behind. good luck and i hope some of you looking into this option dive in and enjoy the many rewards of using wood for your stove fuel.

happy trails
treefingers

Mountain Wildman
03-04-2010, 01:27
http://www.campsaver.com/mmCAMPSAVER/Images/t/littlebug-junior.jpg (http://www.campsaver.com/mmCAMPSAVER/Images/a/littlebug-junior.jpg)
I'm with you.
Littlbug Junior 5.1 ounces.
Uses finger size wood or alcohol stove.

Wise Old Owl
03-04-2010, 01:36
Treefingers, this is the internet, anything can happen-the average hiker doesn't have the skills to do the work necessary to gather wood 1/2 and less in big piles to get a wood stove going.. I have watched many a scout.... fail. Even dutch oven works better on 1/2 inch fuel. Some won't even carry a reasonable knife to clean off the bark for dry starter. So perhaps you are barking up a wrong tree? I think not. Its a skill that most are not willing to learn, It takes a utube.. a soaped pot and a clear need to share your skill with others. It's going to take a little time..

Treefingers
03-04-2010, 01:38
how big is that stove? will it fit inside any one man pots? im trying to find a wood stove to fit in my MSR titan kettle, i have seen the new evernew multi fuel stoves coming out and they look well designed, albeit, expensive, but i have yet to measure to see if it will fit in the kettle

Treefingers
03-04-2010, 01:48
being in the boy scouts when i was younger, my experience was one where most scouts didn't embody survival skills as much running around the woods barely supervised playing with boot knifes and spears. also, i have never needed to utilize a knife to find supplies to make a fire starter. AND on top of that you dont need a big pile of wood to get a a pot of boiling water, probably more like a handful of each, tinder, kindling, and fuel. nobody is born with these skills, but they must be put into practice in many differet sets of variables and conditions too feel secure in your abilities. finally, nobody can learn these skills without trial by fire, all puns intended. please dont discourage the brave and the willing to learn.

happy trails
treefingers




Treefingers, this is the internet, anything can happen-the average hiker doesn't have the skills to do the work necessary to gather wood 1/2 and less in big piles to get a wood stove going.. I have watched many a scout.... fail. Even dutch oven works better on 1/2 inch fuel. Some won't even carry a reasonable knife to clean off the bark for dry starter. So perhaps you are barking up a wrong tree? I think not. Its a skill that most are not willing to learn, It takes a utube.. a soaped pot and a clear need to share your skill with others. It's going to take a little time..

Grinder
03-04-2010, 09:15
I am carrying a hobo stove which fits inside my pot on this years section hike. I also will carry an alcohol stove.

The plan is, when I feel like fiddling, I'll use wood, otherwise it's alcohol.

I don't understand why many feel the need for Gasification. My hobo stove burns hot with finger sized twigs. I haven't even bothered with a grate. I just stand the twigs on end. It weighs 2 1/2 oz.

Mrs Baggins
03-04-2010, 10:06
If you read Rodale's 2 volume set on the stories of hiking the AT....most of those stories take place in the years before there was any "backpacking" gear as we know it. Those hikers often carried heavy wood framed packs, flannel sleeping bags, full sized coats, wore denim jeans,cotton shirts or flannel shirts, and leather work boots and they pretty much all burned wood to cook. And they all enjoyed their hikes. We just bought a Zip stove because my husband hiked in the Sierras with a relative last June who used one and he fell in love with it. The relative has never used any kind of gas or liquid fuel stove, no Esbit tablets....just twigs and moss and he's never not had a nice hot meal and hot drink using it. We did buy the titanium one and as soon as we get out there again this year we'll let you know how it went.

Nevermind
03-04-2010, 12:14
I mean I want to be in nature but I don't want to have to touch it. Nature doesn't have to be natural.

To be serious though, I would say people (including me) use gas stoves for convenience. It's a pretty "sure-fire" way to get things cookin' quickly and easily. But like you said, it's pretty easy to pick up a few pieces of dry wood during the day and light em up at night... Maybe a gas stove is for peace of mind (not concerned about finding tinder, what if I can't find any?!?!).

Your original point, though, was that people shouldn't be so disparaging towards wood stoves. I absolutely agree. I've used em before and love em.

Mountain Wildman
03-04-2010, 12:59
how big is that stove? will it fit inside any one man pots? im trying to find a wood stove to fit in my MSR titan kettle, i have seen the new evernew multi fuel stoves coming out and they look well designed, albeit, expensive, but i have yet to measure to see if it will fit in the kettle

The Littlbug junior is 5 1/2 X 6 when assembled, It breaks down to 4 pieces plus a flame regulater for alcohol stoves and it has a crescent moon shape.
Don't think it will in a Titan but not sure, Check their site if you are interested.
http://www.littlbug.com/index.htm

JJJ
03-04-2010, 13:01
I'm thinking about it.

Over the years car camping, we've always just cooked in a fire pit.
Last year, I made a little alcohol stove and used it on a couple of short trips.
I like it, but re-suppling for a long trip seems it might be just one more thing to deal with. Maybe it's not that biga deal.
Hobo's may be the way to go, but I thought I'd make a Nimblewill (http://thru-hiker.com/projects/nimblewill_stove.php) and give it a try.
Ever use it?

zelph
03-04-2010, 15:32
When you wood guys get time, make a small volcano stove like the one in the video link

When you view the video there is also a video response that shows the stove burning some fuel.

The pot support removes and wraps around the body of the stove.

Backpacking size wood burner. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhx6Ltgzfgg)

Slo-go'en
03-04-2010, 16:53
Wood stoves are fun, though a little messy. Its a very good idea to have a back up alky stove too, as there will be times when a wood stove isn't practical, like cooking in a shelter during a rain storm or your in a hurry, as a wood stove is somewhat more work and time consuming.

Finding wood to burn along the AT is a non issue. Any shelter with a fire ring has pleanty of little sticks laying around, many of which end up under the shelter roof and stay dry. It would take a lot of hikers making a lot of big fires on the AT to use up all the wood which falls down from trees every winter!

I used a zip stove on a month long trip into the Canadian Rockies and not having to deal with liquid fuel was a big plus. This was back when white gas ruled and you pretty much had to carry the full months supply.

tuswm
03-04-2010, 17:12
Here is my question? If you are going to go to the trouble of making a fire why not just prop the cooking pot on a few rocks? why carry the extra weight? why not just go stoveless? I was thinking about carrying a stove as a back up or for cooking (not boiling water) and cooking in fire pits. I do this now just to save fuel.

Question for NOBO thru hikers: From what I understand is you guys tend to have trail family's and often get to shelters with other hikers. How often do you get to camp to find a fire already going? Is it bad etiquette to just go cook on it?

sparky2000
03-04-2010, 17:34
The answer to the "uze others fire?' is a definate mabe.

Slo-go'en
03-04-2010, 18:51
Sure, you can make a fire between some small rocks. I ran into a guy doing that on the Long Trail (and in the middle of the trail) while I was a GMC caretaker. I was about to say something when I realised it was just a tiny cooking fire. He was pretty good at.

However, using a wood stove is much easier than cooking on an open fire and more effiecent. Plus it's contained, you don't have to distrube or scorch the ground, don't have to look for suitable rocks, etc, etc. And it's a lot easier to get going if you do need to use it in the rain.

tuswm
03-04-2010, 19:10
I just made one to fit on the inside of my solo pot with room for alcohol and a small red bull contraption.

My first try made a lot of smoke and a lot of sap on the bottom of the cooking pot. I put the pot on before there was any embers. are you supposed to wait till there are embers? It also heated the water real slowly.

Also if I keep this in my cooking pot will the taste / smell get into my food. this seams like a lot of soot. I never had this much mess on an open fire. Ill try again after dinner.

Treefingers
03-04-2010, 20:14
hobo stoves maybe more efficient and the gassification issue also comes into play though i do not know a whole lot about it. it seems most thru hikers are lazy about building campfires, as i dont see one at most shelters unless there is an abundance of wood right at the hut. i try to make a camp fire at most places i stay and i enjoy the smell heat and enjoymet of watching one. in no way is it bad etiquette to throw a pot on a campfire to cook yourself a meal as far as im concerned. nobody owns a campfire


Here is my question? If you are going to go to the trouble of making a fire why not just prop the cooking pot on a few rocks? why carry the extra weight? why not just go stoveless? I was thinking about carrying a stove as a back up or for cooking (not boiling water) and cooking in fire pits. I do this now just to save fuel.

Question for NOBO thru hikers: From what I understand is you guys tend to have trail family's and often get to shelters with other hikers. How often do you get to camp to find a fire already going? Is it bad etiquette to just go cook on it?

NorthCountryWoods
03-04-2010, 20:37
In my limited experience with one gasification stove I found it boils water quicker, create almost no ash and doesn't make your pots as sooty as a conventional hobo/wood burner.

I love mine, just wish it was lighter.

tuswm
03-04-2010, 23:27
My hobo stove must suck. it cant even boil water. Im a bad HOBO.

take-a-knee
03-05-2010, 00:47
In my limited experience with one gasification stove I found it boils water quicker, create almost no ash and doesn't make your pots as sooty as a conventional hobo/wood burner.

I love mine, just wish it was lighter.

Like this one:

http://bushbuddy.ca/indexs.html

NorthCountryWoods
03-05-2010, 18:45
Like this one:

http://bushbuddy.ca/indexs.html

Not a gasifier, but it is light.

Skidsteer
03-05-2010, 21:45
Not a gasifier, but it is light.

I thought it was a gassifier.

Reid
03-06-2010, 00:39
I love fire. Safe fire's at least. I like to practice seeing how big of a fire I can make but yet only start it with one single match and no fuel. It's an art. I'll even practice with a flint but I don't carry one while I hike.

GGS2
03-06-2010, 01:26
No fuel, huh? I'd add a little bit of wood, maybe. Otherwise the match tends to go out pretty quick.

Reid
03-06-2010, 02:08
No fuel, huh? I'd add a little bit of wood, maybe. Otherwise the match tends to go out pretty quick.

Build the teepee of wood and light it with just one match. Tinder takes then the smaller sticks and so on.

brooklynkayak
03-06-2010, 09:46
I carry a Zelph alky stove and a titanium Nimblewill Nomad type wood stove.
The wood stove gets far more use. I use the alky stove on cold wet mornings so I don't have to get out from under the shelter until I have a hot drink in me.

Using found fuel(wood) takes practice. The people who think it is an inconvenience, haven't done it enough to gain the skill to make it easy.

The mistake that most make is to not use enough tinder before lighting the fire. This is especially important when it is damp and/or windy out.

I used to only use open fires, but the wood stove is quicker and more efficient. So I don't need nearly as much fuel as an open fire. This is important when it has been raining for days.

Of course, if the situation allows, an open fire is the way to go.

scottdennis
03-06-2010, 10:08
Chances are, where there is nice dry tinder, kindling, and wood. . .there are nice dry snakes PO'd that you bothered their hiding place.

I guess I'm "lazy" and would rather spend my down time eating and resting instead of foraging for fuel. It's not that I can't do it. It's just my preference.

weary
03-06-2010, 11:42
I never once had difficulty finding wood for my Zip stove during the six months and three days I was on Appalachian Trail in 1993 -- nor in many days of hiking before and since, for that matter.

Nor do i do much foraging for fuel at shelters, aside from scanning the fire pit for burnt ends, and scrap paper for tinder.

As I walk along during the day I just pick up proper sized pieces broken by hiker boots and stuff them into a zip lock bag, or when it's raining break off dry twigs protected by blowdowns, or higher branches.

I usually had hot water as quickly as anyone when I arrived at shelters, especially if I had found a supply of downed birch bark during the day, which happened on most days once I got north of Georgia. Better yet, I had hot water for as long as I needed it -- enough for several hot chocolates, cooking regular rice, concocting my "Lipton Dinners" from scratch....

BTW. I never soaped the outside of my pots. Soot never bothered me. I welcomed it for aiding the transfer of heat from the flames to my food. I always washed the inside of my pots each evening -- usually by putting a scrap of ivory soap in a pot of water and heating it on my Zip Stove. A few swishes with a stick and a little rinsing and the pot was usually clean. Ready to be placed into one of those thin plastic bags that every store along the trails insists on giving you.

Mornings, after eating my oatmeal, I would swish the pot with a little water, and it would be clean enough for heating water for my morning coffee. And clean enough to last until that final evening wash up.

As simple as this process was, I was not adverse to bypassing the Zip occasionally if someone had a good fire going in the fire pit and there were a few hot coals for setting a pot.

From time to time, my pot would get an extra thorough cleaning, like when I used it for washing a pair of socks, a hankerchief, or a tee shirt when I had enough food for another day or two and wanted to avoid a town stop just to do laundry.

Weary

StubbleJumper
03-06-2010, 11:50
Chances are, where there is nice dry tinder, kindling, and wood. . .there are nice dry snakes PO'd that you bothered their hiding place.

I guess I'm "lazy" and would rather spend my down time eating and resting instead of foraging for fuel. It's not that I can't do it. It's just my preference.

Snakes? Where do you normally look for dry tinder? Living in a relatively wet region, I typically look up rather than down as deadwood on the ground tends to be damp and deadwood hanging off trees tends to be dry. Unless there are a lot of tree snakes in your region, you've got nothing to worry about. ;)

I've used gas stoves, alky, and wood. The wood is more fun, but can be a hassle when you get a prolonged rainy period. Some mornings you wake up in a cloud of fog (I don't mind rain, but I hate sleeping in a cloud!), and it can be a real challenge getting a woodstove going. Much simpler to bust out the alky stove and have your porridge ready in 10 min.

take-a-knee
03-06-2010, 11:56
I thought it was a gassifier.

Correct, it most definetely is a gassifier.

NorthCountryWoods
03-06-2010, 12:19
Correct, it most definetely is a gassifier.

I found no where on the site stating it was a gasifier. They talk of secondary combustion, which I'm sure they get some of, but going by the site, instructions for use, descriptions, and reviews I do not think it is a true gasification stove.

I do like the weight and it's the closest thing to gasification under 8oz.

Grinder
03-06-2010, 12:23
re. starting the fire.

I am carrying alcohol. DOH!! a quick splash and I'm good to go.

Also, I can't remember a day on the trail when I didn't see a birch tree with bark hanging in shreds. A small piece of that lights immediately, without fuss.

Little bitty twigs mixed with little finger sized wood to start,then add bigger wood, (up to thumb sized is pretty good). I stand the wood on end. It can't take five minutes til the pot is on the fire.

With a hot fire, the bottom of the pan is more like black enamel than soot. Not very smeary at all.

take-a-knee
03-06-2010, 12:31
I found no where on the site stating it was a gasifier. They talk of secondary combustion, which I'm sure they get some of, but going by the site, instructions for use, descriptions, and reviews I do not think it is a true gasification stove.

I do like the weight and it's the closest thing to gasification under 8oz.

Well, I own one of 'em and it leaves ZERO carbon anywhere on the stove. So explain that if it isn't a gassifier. There is nothing left but a little white ash, because every H-C bond has been broken and turned to heat.

JustaTouron
03-06-2010, 12:36
I really don't understand the take both an "alchy AND wood stove to get the benefits of both" thinking.

I am not by any stretch a UL hiker....but even I wouldn't bring redundant stoves.

The benefit of an alchy stove is it is light. Add in a wood stove and now things are heavy again.

The benefit of a wood stove is you don't need to carry fuel. But you are also carrying an alchy stove and fuel.

NorthCountryWoods
03-08-2010, 13:44
Well, I own one of 'em and it leaves ZERO carbon anywhere on the stove. So explain that if it isn't a gassifier. There is nothing left but a little white ash, because every H-C bond has been broken and turned to heat.

Obviously YMMV depending on fuel used, conditions. A quick google search will provide reviews of people very happy with the performance, but many complain about soot on pots and wind problems. My gasifier does not leave any soot anywhere nor has any problems in all but hurricane force wind conditions.

Like I said, the BB is getting secondary combustion, which is better than most hobo type wood burners, but the percentage of gasification of the entire burn appears limited.

I've been contemplating pulling the trigger on the BB ultra. 5.1 oz is a lot better than the the 28.0 oz of my woodgas stove. Especially if you are getting that kind of efficiency.

mbiraman
03-12-2010, 12:36
how big is that stove? will it fit inside any one man pots? im trying to find a wood stove to fit in my MSR titan kettle, i have seen the new evernew multi fuel stoves coming out and they look well designed, albeit, expensive, but i have yet to measure to see if it will fit in the kettle

I've heard the bushbuddy fits inside the titan once you turn the titan lid upsidedown. I have a BB. Great stove. You can sit it on the ground and it doesn't burn the ground. 6.5 oz,,and small,,3 3/4 H x 4 1/2 W,,something like that, check the site. I carry an alky stove for backup

mbiraman
03-12-2010, 12:50
Obviously YMMV depending on fuel used, conditions. A quick google search will provide reviews of people very happy with the performance, but many complain about soot on pots and wind problems. My gasifier does not leave any soot anywhere nor has any problems in all but hurricane force wind conditions.

Like I said, the BB is getting secondary combustion, which is better than most hobo type wood burners, but the percentage of gasification of the entire burn appears limited.

I've been contemplating pulling the trigger on the BB ultra. 5.1 oz is a lot better than the the 28.0 oz of my woodgas stove. Especially if you are getting that kind of efficiency.

I own a BB as well and have been very impressed with it.I don't know whether its a true gasification or a secondary burn stove but i know that there's only white ash left after a burn. Weighs only 6 1/2 oz and as far as i know is the most efficient wood stove out there in its weight class. Beats anything i've made hands down. A bit pricey but excellent craftsmanship and stainless steel to boot.

take-a-knee
03-12-2010, 13:09
I've heard the bushbuddy fits inside the titan once you turn the titan lid upsidedown. I have a BB. Great stove. You can sit it on the ground and it doesn't burn the ground. 6.5 oz,,and small,,3 3/4 H x 4 1/2 W,,something like that, check the site. I carry an alky stove for backup

The BB does not fit well in the MSR Titan, it sticks out the top. Get the Trek 900 it was designed for or the pot from BPL.

JAK
03-12-2010, 13:14
My hobo stove must suck. it cant even boil water. Im a bad HOBO.lol

I'm a bad hobo also. I've made alot of bad hobo stoves. I've done the small open fire with 3 rocks thing, the swiss corked flash cooker flask cooker thing, the kelly kettle thing, and a few hobo stoves in various shapes. I've used spruce sticks, birch bark, with and without some beeswax or canola oil. I've done it on warm days, cold wet days, and as cold as -20F. Ambient temperature really make a difference, partly because it is hard to tell if your fuel is dry, or just frozen solid. A big hobo stove is fairly easy. A small hobo stove is alot harder. It's fun messing around with hobo stoves, or rock stoves also for that matter. You can shape them into little furnaces on the beach. Hard to get rocks when the ground is frozen though, and the beach is cold this time of year. So far I haven't made anything as fast and easy as my Kelly Kettle, but the diy hobo and rock alternatives are lots of fun. You learn alot hands on. It's great for me because I'm not really a hands on kinda guy.

Anyhow, I'll bet if you mad your bad hobo stove just a little bigger it would be an ok hobo stove. I would like to get mine down to the diameter that fits well in my side pouches, but it is harder to get them to work well in all conditions in that size. More height helps, but then they get tippy. Keep the faith.