PDA

View Full Version : Ignored by ALDHA



XCskiNYC
03-05-2010, 00:13
Wanting to improve the accuracy of the info in the ALDHA Companion, I e-mailed them in early November re their entry on the Ten Mile River shelter in CT. They say the water source, hand pump, is 0.2 miles north of the shelter.

It's actually 100 feet south and west (to the left as you're facing the front of the shelter).

This detail is important because 0.2 north is on the other side of Ten Mile River.

Unfortunately, the 2010 Companion retains the incorrect information.

They also still list the GCT-Pawling/AT Stop commuter train fare as $11.00/$15.25 off-peak/peak when it's been $13.00/$17.25 since March 2009.

emerald
03-05-2010, 00:19
It's difficult to be diplomatic at times given the manner in which people here sometimes post.

climber2377
03-05-2010, 01:22
sometimes people get confused with north and south, i m not familiar with the area you are talking about but, in the books north is trail north not compass north. so east is always to the right when you are going north on the trail and west is always to the left, even if you are going in a southely direction on the trail, if you are hiking to maine, you are considered to be going north in the books.

GGS2
03-05-2010, 01:45
Weird but understandable. Many cities work this way: the grid is a little skew, but everyone understands that North and South are not true or magnetic directions: they are grid directions. However, on a trail or where the city grid changes or perhaps isn't rectilinear, this can get confusing fast.

I guess that data book writers want to avoid getting hikers turned around when the trail is momentarily inverted; in the wrong direction. But when hikers check their navigation by sun or other fixed references, they have to keep that in mind. Perhaps most hikers just follow the white highway, without checking at all.

Ox97GaMe
03-05-2010, 10:02
The information may not necessarily have been ignored. you stated that you gave them this info in November. That may have been too late to make this years publication date. Changes in information needs to be verified. There are regional coordinaters taht are given this task. The regional rep may not have been able to verify it during the winter months. Also, the books need to be edited, printed, and distributed to the retailers in time to be available for the thru hiker season.

One cant assume that changes occur immediately. If you want to verify that this change will be in next year's companion, offer to work with the regional rep, maybe even go out to the shelter with them to show them. When doing this however, you will need to be flexible to work within their schedule. These folks are volunteers and gather information updates when time permits.

You may also want to let the trail maintaining club know that this is incorrect. They can then add appropriate signage at the shelter to alert hikers that may be misdirected by the information in the companion.

Manwich
03-05-2010, 10:28
The pump is within direct sight of the shelter.

bulldog49
03-05-2010, 10:33
Wanting to improve the accuracy of the info in the ALDHA Companion, I e-mailed them in early November re their entry on the Ten Mile River shelter in CT. They say the water source, hand pump, is 0.2 miles north of the shelter.

It's actually 100 feet south and west (to the left as you're facing the front of the shelter).

This detail is important because 0.2 north is on the other side of Ten Mile River.

Unfortunately, the 2010 Companion retains the incorrect information.

They also still list the GCT-Pawling/AT Stop commuter train fare as $11.00/$15.25 off-peak/peak when it's been $13.00/$17.25 since March 2009.

My thought is if you are sincere in being helpful, why don't you contact ALDHA directly instead of posting here? My guess is, as someone else suggested, is they received your info too late to confirm it and get it entered in the month or so before it was published.

JustaTouron
03-05-2010, 10:52
sometimes people get confused with north and south, i m not familiar with the area you are talking about but, in the books north is trail north not compass north. so east is always to the right when you are going north on the trail and west is always to the left, even if you are going in a southely direction on the trail, if you are hiking to maine, you are considered to be going north in the books.


Suggestion to trail book writers.....maybe where trail and true are very different make that clear......

e.g. "100 feet N(AT);SW(C)"

AT meaning in the direction of the trail towards Baxter. C being compass. I avoided Trail and True. Because Tr could mean either.

Would not need to included this for directions...if it clear..roads only go two directions. Telling someone to go west when the road really goes SW and NE should not be a problem. But if the trail has done a switch back it might be nice to do something like this. "2m E(AT)W(C)" if they are in fact going to be walking into the sunset to get to town.

Lone Wolf
03-05-2010, 10:55
his years Companion is bigger and heavier than the other 2 guides

Jester2000
03-05-2010, 10:59
In the future, the original poster may want to contact ALDHA earlier than November for inclusion in the following year's Companion. In addition, I don't know where he sent the info, but contacting the field editor for that section would be the way to go.

They actually enjoy getting help.

As for the directional thing, I don't see the point in making things any more complicated than they need to be. Four directions work just fine.

GGS2
03-05-2010, 11:33
...
As for the directional thing, I don't see the point in making things any more complicated than they need to be. Four directions work just fine.
I wonder if you are like my wife, who continually entertains me with directional references like "See the bird? It's there at 2o'clock," leaving me to wonder if she means relative to the direction she is facing, or the trail direction, or something else, perhaps wherever she happened to be looking before she noticed the bird. I think it's usually the latter. She often assumes I know what she's talking about, see what she's seeing. And when I finally understand which direction I'm supposed to look, I get, "Oh, it's gone now." Diverting, but not always effective.

JustaTouron
03-05-2010, 11:57
As for the directional thing, I don't see the point in making things any more complicated than they need to be. Four directions work just fine.


I wonder if you are like my wife, who continually entertains me with directional references like "See the bird? It's there at 2o'clock," leaving me to wonder if she means relative to the direction she is facing, or the trail direction, or something else, perhaps wherever she happened to be looking before she noticed the bird. I think it's usually the latter. She often assumes I know what she's talking about, see what she's seeing. And when I finally understand which direction I'm supposed to look, I get, "Oh, it's gone now." Diverting, but not always effective.

I think four directions COULD work fine. If the all the hikers on the AT carried a compass and the editors used east to mean the direction in which the sun rises and west to mean where it sets. Instead of left and right of a winding trail. North of a shelter next to winding trail means almost nothing.

Cookerhiker
03-05-2010, 12:01
.... As for the directional thing, I don't see the point in making things any more complicated than they need to be. ....

What? Wait a minute - I thought you prided yourself on doing just that.:D

Manwich
03-05-2010, 12:31
I think four directions COULD work fine. If the all the hikers on the AT carried a compass and the editors used east to mean the direction in which the sun rises and west to mean where it sets. Instead of left and right of a winding trail. North of a shelter next to winding trail means almost nothing.

If a hiker wants to know where the water is, then he'll need to learn where north, south, left and right are. ALDHA doesn't need to baby him, he's backpacking.

the goat
03-05-2010, 12:36
North of a shelter next to winding trail means almost nothing.

not if the direction "north" denotes the direction of the trail as it heads north. most figure this out on day one.

Jester2000
03-05-2010, 13:05
I have yet to be at a shelter and been so confused as to where the water is that I had to break out a compass or a guidebook. But that's because I'm always carrying a dowsing rod.

BobTheBuilder
03-05-2010, 13:21
This detail is important because 0.2 north is on the other side of Ten Mile River.



Well, if you try to cross a river to get to a water source, maybe hiking isn't for you.

Mags
03-05-2010, 13:40
I hate it when GoogleMaps tell me to take I-95N when I-95 is obviously going west....

;)

Ender
03-05-2010, 14:05
Well, if you try to cross a river to get to a water source, maybe hiking isn't for you.

This made me laugh out loud at my desk. Coworkers now think I'm nuts. :sun

XCskiNYC
03-05-2010, 14:06
Well, if you try to cross a river to get to a water source, maybe hiking isn't for you.

Au contraire, anybody who fords the Ten Mile River with a heavy pack, they're probably going to be a very successful hiker.

JustaTouron
03-05-2010, 14:27
Au contraire, anybody who fords the Ten Mile River with a heavy pack, they're probably going to be a very successful hiker.

I think you missed the point. There is a water source 100 feet north of the shelter....the river.

sasquatch2014
03-06-2010, 17:14
Au contraire, anybody who fords the Ten Mile River with a heavy pack, they're probably going to be a very successful hiker.

Au contraire, Au Contraire. Anyone who fords the Ten Mile River with a heavy pack is most likely a moron. Why would you ford the river when they provide a perfectly good foot bridge over the river?

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/2/1/7/1/5/dscf2846_thumb.jpg (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=32431&c=searchresults&searchid=30450)

sasquatch2014
03-06-2010, 17:17
I think you missed the point. There is a water source 100 feet north of the shelter....the river.

Again while it is water you will want to avoid the big rivers like this and the Housatonic both have stuff such as PCB's that most filters will not remove.

Old Grouse
03-06-2010, 17:27
Au contraire, anybody who fords the Ten Mile River with a heavy pack, they're probably going to be a very successful hiker.

I'm not so sure... Seems to me you need at least minimal smarts out there. Since there's a sturdy iron bridge placed there at considerable effort & expense for hikers' use, I wouldn't be favorably
impressed by someone who fords the Ten Mile instead.

Tin Man
03-06-2010, 17:28
Again while it is water you will want to avoid the big rivers like this and the Housatonic both have stuff such as PCB's that most filters will not remove.

i drank housatonic river water once and i don't glow in the dark. pcbs are on the bottom, free running pcbs not so much. bacon is prolly more dangerous.

JustaTouron
03-06-2010, 17:30
Again while it is water you will want to avoid the big rivers like this and the Housatonic both have stuff such as PCB's that most filters will not remove.

And the pump next to the shelter is not getting its water from the huge river only 100 feet away?

yaduck9
03-06-2010, 17:59
Au contraire, Au Contraire. Anyone who fords the Ten Mile River with a heavy pack is most likely a moron. Why would you ford the river when they provide a perfectly good foot bridge over the river?

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/2/1/7/1/5/dscf2846_thumb.jpg (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=32431&c=searchresults&searchid=30450)

Its bad enough that your throwing all of these double negatives into these posts but french double negatives, oy vie!!!

GGS2
03-06-2010, 19:23
Au contraire is not really a negative. More like Wrong, you stupid ijit! Maybe a contrary.

Roland
03-06-2010, 19:40
Au contraire = On the contrary

That ain't no double negative ;)

Old Grouse
03-06-2010, 19:48
And the pump next to the shelter is not getting its water from the huge river only 100 feet away?

Most unlikely. Well water comes fr the aquafer, deep below the river bottom.

berkshirebirder
03-06-2010, 20:07
Au contraire, Au Contraire.

On the contrary! In my book, calling this a double negative was funny, yaduck.

JustaTouron
03-06-2010, 20:14
On the contrary! In my book, calling this a double negative was funny, yaduck.

Even funnier was the french spelling of a yiddish expression, complaining about the use of a french double negitive.

sasquatch2014
03-06-2010, 22:27
Just to clear stuff I up i drink from the rivers and eat bacon hell i figure it cant kill me any quicker than any of the other bad things i do in my life. and no i don't look both ways before i cross the street. I am hoping to get hit by a care sue the crap out of the driver spend a few months in rehab and then hike for the rest of my life. We all need to have a plan right?

Old Grouse
03-06-2010, 23:06
Well Saquatch, if that's your plan, make sure you always cross in a crosswalk. It'll strengthen your case considerably. I just hope it isn't some clod in a Yugo that hits you.

sasquatch2014
03-06-2010, 23:14
Well Saquatch, if that's your plan, make sure you always cross in a crosswalk. It'll strengthen your case considerably. I just hope it isn't some clod in a Yugo that hits you.

No crap with the winter weight I have on me right now it could be a reverse suite.

Yugo driver hits man in crosswalk the driver of the car was hospitalized with major injuries. Car was totaled. Pedestrian was heard to say "This is not the way it was to happen. How can I sue if I am the less injured. Quick hit me with a bat!"

Sly
03-07-2010, 00:05
Sorry about the mistake...

Depending on the addy used, most email with corrections comes through my box. If the email came in November it was too late to make corrections in the 2010 edition but will be noted for for 2011.

Manwich
03-07-2010, 00:19
i drank housatonic river water once and i don't glow in the dark. pcbs are on the bottom, free running pcbs not so much. bacon is prolly more dangerous.

lived in kent for a while. went tubing one summer, got a small cut on my foot from a rock. the next morning i was in agony in the doctors office as they were aspirating my wound and giving me antibiotics. got one of the most violent, fast infections he'd ever seen. screw the pcbs, i'm an acne-ridden sprat who'll need his face amputated from the crud in there.

Sly
03-07-2010, 00:39
I think four directions COULD work fine. If the all the hikers on the AT carried a compass and the editors used east to mean the direction in which the sun rises and west to mean where it sets. Instead of left and right of a winding trail. North of a shelter next to winding trail means almost nothing.

Of course, they'd have to know where they are on the map. Now it's as simple as it gets... you're hiking north to Maine, east is right, west is left.

Jester2000
03-07-2010, 00:44
Of course, they'd have to know where they are on the map. Now it's as simple as it gets... you're hiking north to Maine, east is right, west is left.

Interesting point here for people who have not seen the PCT Data Book. It gives the actual direction of travel for the roads, which means that sometimes you have to break out your compass to figure out which direction on the road (is NNE to the left??) they're talking about.

Much more complicated than the very simple AT directions.

Sleepy the Arab
03-07-2010, 23:47
Interesting point here for people who have not seen the PCT Data Book. It gives the actual direction of travel for the roads, which means that sometimes you have to break out your compass to figure out which direction on the road (is NNE to the left??) they're talking about.

Much more complicated than the very simple AT directions.

I'd argue it's more complicated on the AT, simply because of the frequency of bars, ABC's and convenience store coolers can make walking a consistant direction a bit of a challenge.

Graywolf
03-08-2010, 00:11
Man How confusing can this be...You hike north, so west is left, east is right..No matter how many turns the AT takes, it remains constant..Unless of course, some one in the course of your hike blindfolded you, turned you around ten times, then released you..Yeah, then I could see how that could be complicated..

Oh, and about the rivers, I canoed my WAS perfectly good WHITE canoe down the Trinity river in Texas just to have to come home with a newly aquired paint job that was a, OLIVE DRAB color..I thought someone switched canoes on me at first...

berkshirebirder
03-08-2010, 10:20
I'd argue it's more complicated on the AT, simply because the frequency of bars, ABC's and convenience store coolers can make walking a consistant direction a bit of a challenge. --Sleepy the Arab

Good one, Sleepy.

mrc237
03-08-2010, 10:44
Thanks Sly!!!

JustaTouron
03-08-2010, 11:51
Man How confusing can this be...You hike north, so west is left, east is right..No matter how many turns the AT takes, it remains constant..Unless of course, some one in the course of your hike blindfolded you, turned you around ten times, then released you..Yeah, then I could see how that could be complicated..



On the trail...not so complex.

But if you walk a half mile down a twisting blue blaze trail to a shelter and out of sight of the actual AT and then the directions call for traveling a .3 miles from the shelter to find water. Knowing exactly how the trail is traveling could be a bit tricky. Would be easier to be able to use your compass in that situation.

emerald
03-08-2010, 14:52
Man, how confusing can this be.... You hike north, so west is left, east is right.... No matter how many turns the AT takes, it remains constant...

Maybe for the those who think they don't need maps. Beyond Pennsylvania's Susquehanna River, the A.T. runs mostly due East clear to New Jersey, save for portions where heads North or South.:-?

A few years, ago I met some SOBO friends at PA 183. My final words to them were, "Well, I guess it's time to hike off into the setting sun," and they did.

XCskiNYC
04-23-2010, 22:09
Sorry about the mistake...

Depending on the addy used, most email with corrections comes through my box. If the email came in November it was too late to make corrections in the 2010 edition but will be noted for for 2011.


Thank you sir. I hope it helps to bring discrepancies to ALDHA's attention. The Companion does solicit these corrections so as long it helps the Companion, which is a great resource, and made available in a cost-free form for those who do not want to carry the entire book, I will alert you to any changes encountered on the trail and invite all concerned Whiteblazers to join me in that.

Lauriep
04-24-2010, 08:01
Dick and I stayed at the 10-Mile Campsite on a section-hike last October and never did find the water, although we were carrying several A.T. information sources. He remembered a spigot being close to the privy in the campsite area from hiking the same section two years ago, and the on-site maps seemed to indicate the same thing, so we just assumed it had been removed, or that we were really dense.

In the beginning pages of the Companion, there's a section, "Reading the Companion," and it states (p. vii):

East and West --Regardless of compass direction, "east" or "E" and "west" or "W" are used as they are in the A.T. Data Book and the series of 11 A.T. guides: "East" is to the northbounder's right and the southbounder's left, when referring to the Trail.

For those not aware, ATC maintains a Companion Updates page at http://www.appalachiantrail.org/companionupdates. There are already a lot of updates there; I'll look into getting this one posted.

XCskiNYC
04-24-2010, 15:51
Dick and I stayed at the 10-Mile Campsite on a section-hike last October and never did find the water, although we were carrying several A.T. information sources. He remembered a spigot being close to the privy in the campsite area from hiking the same section two years ago, and the on-site maps seemed to indicate the same thing, so we just assumed it had been removed, or that we were really dense.

In the beginning pages of the Companion, there's a section, "Reading the Companion," and it states (p. vii):

East and West --Regardless of compass direction, "east" or "E" and "west" or "W" are used as they are in the A.T. Data Book and the series of 11 A.T. guides: "East" is to the northbounder's right and the southbounder's left, when referring to the Trail.

For those not aware, ATC maintains a Companion Updates page at http://www.appalachiantrail.org/companionupdates. There are already a lot of updates there; I'll look into getting this one posted.


Thanks for that. I wish I'd checked it before getting to MA41 and thinking I was about to hit a nice soft bed at the Egremont Inn. Instead I had 3 or 4 more miles of hiking in dusk and near dark (plus another couple miles of road walking) to get to Great Barrington.

It's odd that there's no change or update for the White Hart Inn in Salisbury, CT which the Companion lists as having an $89 hiker rate but which now has no room under $190 and has not had a hiker rate for four years.

On the water pump at Ten Mile River, it's 100 feet to the left of the shelter (as you're facing the front of the shelter). It's a little confusing because this area has both a shelter with a privy and the water pump and then, 100 yards trail-north and just before the bridge over the TMR, an entire separate camping area with privy but no water pump.

emerald
04-25-2010, 14:13
Links to ALDHA's Companion and ATC's updates page are posted daily and now exist at 1000s of locations on this website. They just appeared again at the bottom of my post. Click on the white blazes to link to the information.

It's seems more true with every passing day that you can lead some people to water, but you can't make them drink! Be assured they will let you know when they haven't done their own research before they walk afterwards often in a very public way which frequently doesn't address an issue they identify.

Nean
04-26-2010, 10:37
Au contraire, anybody who fords the Ten Mile River with a heavy pack, they're probably going to be a very successful hiker.


Au pardon, I think you meant to say swimmer.:D