Rangers On The Trail

[EricS96521]

I have been reading that camping outside of shelters and building fires is condemned on the trail (punishable by a fine?), and was curious as to what I could expect as far as ranger wise and avoid being caught stealth camping and having a fire at night.

My main concern is from US 19E to Highway 321 in Tennessee.

Any information you all can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[karo]

I think you are meaning the Smokeys which has stricter rules. North of that is the section you are asking about falls under Cherokee Natl. Forest rules (http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/cherokee/recreation/primitive.shtml). Anyone else have anything different?

[karo]

Read here (http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/cherokee/recreation/rogs/north/watauga/atrogfnl.pdf)also

[EricS96521]

Well, if google maps is correct, then the area I am wanting to hike is in Cherokee National Forest.

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/5545/trail.jpg

[EricS96521]

It seems that site has answered all of my questions.


For visitors wanting to get away from it all, dispersed camping outside of developed campgrounds is allowed throughout Cherokee National Forest unless posted otherwise.

Camping is not allowed within 100 feet of water, trails, trailhead parking lots, designated recreation areas, or where otherwise posted.


Campfires are permitted, but a stove is recommended. Live trees may not be cut; use dead or down wood for campfires.

[EricS96521]

Even though I have found this info, what about the possibility of coming across a ranger or some type of law enforcement? I will have protection on me and I don't want to end up getting fined or jailed.

[SGT Rock]

Even though I have found this info, what about the possibility of coming across a ranger or some type of law enforcement? I will have protection on me and I don't want to end up getting fined or jailed.

Get your pistol permit. You will be fine.

[EricS96521]

If I do not have a permit, is the law still the same as it would be anywhere else in the state?

[Blissful]

As long as what you are carrying is legal in the area or state or country you are in, shouldn't be a problem who you come across....

[SGT Rock]

If I do not have a permit, is the law still the same as it would be anywhere else in the state?

In Tennessee you must have a pistol permit to carry a loaded pistol -concealed or not. In NC (the line you will cross back and forth across) you can carry open without a permit, but must have a permit for concealed. If you have a TN license (I see you are from Johnson City) your TN permit is reciprocal with NC.

If you go to a handgun carry class this will all be explained to you, as will any other laws you may want to know about before you go armed. Carying a loaded firearm in TN without a permit is not something you want to do unless you are on the UT basketball team.

[scottdennis]

I have a saying. . .I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.

With that said, no one can just go searching you for no reason, so as long as you are not brandishing your weapon no one will ever know. The only way you will get in trouble is if you have to use it to defend yourself (but again, that leads back to my saying).

[SGT Rock]

Yes, but you will also get much better educated on the responsibilities and laws if you do just go get the permit. And you will be legal. Go figure.

[EricS96521]

I'm assuming you are a law enforcement officer? If so, answer me this.

If I carry the gun in my pack, but keep the clip in my pocket away from the gun, is that still considered concealed carry?

[scottdennis]

I make sure I'm completely versed on the laws of a state that I carry in. But it doesn't mean I'm going to go pay them money so I can exercise my 2nd Amendment Constitutional right. I'm more concerned with what constitutes justifiable use of deadly force for a particular state (since each one is a little different).

My second saying is I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. I'll let my lawyer worry about the "having a fire arm without paying the state to exercise my 2nd Amendment Right" later.

[scottdennis]

I'm assuming you are a law enforcement officer? If so, answer me this.

If I carry the gun in my pack, but keep the clip in my pocket away from the gun, is that still considered concealed carry?

What's the purpose? This is where states monkey around with your rights. They say "oh we're NOT keeping you from your right to bear arms." We're just saying your gun has to be in one location and your ammunition in another, and your clip somewhere else."

If you're going to go through all that, I wouldn't even bother carrying.

[Lion King]

A person who carries a gun and is worried about law enforcement or rangers makes me want to carry a gun.

[SGT Rock]

Not really (IMO), but that could be interpreted by the local guys. Some counties in Tennesse read that as "easily available" that a magazine of loaded ammo, though not in the weapon, is still a readily available weapon. You might beat it in court if it ever came up. I hear that out in Memphis they do it that way because every thug out there tries that defense. Out here in the east most local guys aren't so radical unless they catch you making meth or something.

Now here is another thing I noticed. You are 20. In the state of Tennessee it is unlawful for anyone under the age of 21 to be armed with a handgun outside their own home. That is sort of a construction of the law because in Tennessee you must be at least 21 to get a permit. And in Tennessee you must have a permit to carry a loaded handgun. You could carry a shotgun and call yourself hunting, but it better be in season and you will need a license LOL. There are exceptions for stuff like ranges and such. I take my boys shooting all the time.

Do you turn 21 soon?

And, BTW, my jurisdiction is on federal property west of where you will be hiking. And my authority is only in reference to federal statutes. I couldn't arrest you if I even cared to do so. Don't worry about me. I just don't want to see anyone get in a bind in any way. And I have my permit (being a cop only allows you to carry on duty in Tennessee, you still need a permit off duty) and personally think the training you get on when you can defend yourself should be taught in High School. Deadly force and it's use includes any force (not just guns) that could kill or cause serious bodily injury. Too many people are victims when they have the right to fight back. I suggest when you get 21 you go get the training and a permit.

[SGT Rock]

I make sure I'm completely versed on the laws of a state that I carry in. But it doesn't mean I'm going to go pay them money so I can exercise my 2nd Amendment Constitutional right. I'm more concerned with what constitutes justifiable use of deadly force for a particular state (since each one is a little different).

My second saying is I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. I'll let my lawyer worry about the "having a fire arm without paying the state to exercise my 2nd Amendment Right" later.
Sure. But in some states it is a felony. I personally think the training on use of deadly force is good - lets you know when you are justified and when you aren't. And it can help you avoid getting hemmed up when you don't plan on causing anyone any harm. I see nothing wrong with getting educated.

[EricS96521]

A person who carries a gun and is worried about law enforcement or rangers makes me want to carry a gun.

lol..I am wanting to carry because I am not sure who I will run across while on the trail. Plus it will be basic protection from wild animals and the like. I will have my younger brother with me and will fight to the death if anyone tries to harm him.

[EricS96521]

I am actually just starting to think a can or 2 of pepper spray will suffice instead of a gun.

[Blue Jay]

I have a saying. . .I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.

Quite often people who have been exposed to the US Justice System change their minds about death.

[SGT Rock]

I am actually just starting to think a can or 2 of pepper spray will suffice instead of a gun.

Probably. IMO it is probably overkill even on the trail to take that. But then 2008 shook things up a little on that with the killing, rape, and shootings that all happened around the AT that year. Stay more than a mile from roads, keep your kook meter on, and trust your gut. Some hikers are eccentric, but every year there is a scam artist, thief, or some miscreant trying to get what he can from normal hikers.

[EricS96521]

I think that's what I will just do. I do not like guns at all. When I am around them, loaded or not, I get very uneasy.

My main concern is coming across a boar, dogs, coyotes, or a bear. Pepper spray should work for those right?

[Lion King]

lol..I am wanting to carry because I am not sure who I will run across while on the trail. Plus it will be basic protection from wild animals and the like. I will have my younger brother with me and will fight to the death if anyone tries to harm him.

Dude, leave your gun at home.

You do not need it.

Mice dont eat much.

bears run.

deer dont carry gats.

the people you meet will be awesome, if they seemodd, move on.

a drawn gun or knowing you have it, unless you carry experiacne using weapon s will make you more paranoid then you need to be which will throw off a odd vibe, even if unintentionally, to others which will make them give an odd vibe to you.

Ive carried and used guns, but never on a trail.

[EricS96521]

See the post above yours.

[scottdennis]

Quite often people who have been exposed to the US Justice System change their minds about death.

LOL! I must admit that more than likely it would not be a jury of my peers that's for sure.

Also, nothing like the land of the free where it's a felony to exercise your 2nd Amendment right unless you pay the man off (i.e. permit/tax/fee).

Permits and taxes do not equal "education."

[SGT Rock]

I think that's what I will just do. I do not like guns at all. When I am around them, loaded or not, I get very uneasy.

My main concern is coming across a boar, dogs, coyotes, or a bear. Pepper spray should work for those right?

Probably won't see boars. If you have a hiking stick you can deal with dogs (and I don't mean hitting them), never have had a coyote problem. Bears, they run whenever I take their picture, so I normally just use a camera for bear protection.

If you are not comfortable being around a gun, carrying one for protection is a bad idea IMO. You need to be confident with them and comfortable shooting. Shooting another person is a whole 'nother level for most law abiding citizens, many freeze up or screw up when trying if they haven't gotten comfortable shooting and such before hand. I'd never try and talk someone that knows what they were doing out of carrying (not anymore after 2008 anyway). But I also wouldn't recommend a gun as the solution for someone that isn't already carrying and familiar with the use of a handgun.

[scottdennis]

I think that's what I will just do. I do not like guns at all. When I am around them, loaded or not, I get very uneasy.

My main concern is coming across a boar, dogs, coyotes, or a bear. Pepper spray should work for those right?

By ALL MEANS, do not carry a gun then if you are even the slightest bit uneasy.

[EricS96521]

I guess I am just looking at the possibilities of problems I may come across through my hike. Thanks guys for the info.

[SGT Rock]

LOL! I must admit that more than likely it would not be a jury of my peers that's for sure.

Also, nothing like the land of the free where it's a felony to exercise your 2nd Amendment right unless you pay the man off (i.e. permit/tax/fee).

Permits and taxes do not equal "education."

No, the class does.

It is a good class we have as the mandatory minimum over here in Tennessee. I personally agree the permit system is way over priced, but I think the minimum mandatory training requirement is excellent. My local shooting range has great instructors who are all law enforcement and/or military and they teach above and beyond the mechanics of shooting and the laws required. If you went through their class you would also feel confident when you skinned that smoke wagon.

I assume you haven't been to a Tennessee Permit class, so I also assume you don't have any idea what they teach, and thus no idea why it is a good idea to get trained. Seems give all that, you are more ranting than actually giving anyone good advice.:rolleyes:

[Lion King]

I saw 6 big boars just south of Franklin last year after a major thunderstorm...they were coming toward me from the trees...at first I thought, Jesus, why are there so many bears coming at me...then they snorted....I baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayed like a hound and they ran the other way like a herd of elephants.


Dog sounds work to scare off most animals, that and peeing around your camp spot.

[SGT Rock]

I saw 6 big boars just south of Franklin last year after a major thunderstorm...they were coming toward me from the trees...at first I thought, Jesus, why are there so many bears coming at me...then they snorted....I baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayed like a hound and they ran the other way like a herd of elephants.


Dog sounds work to scare off most animals, that and peeing around your camp spot.

Peeing around you camp can draw in deer in my experience.

[Lion King]

Peeing around you camp can draw in deer in my experience.

Then we can use our guns to shoot them and make vennison spaghetti:D

[SGT Rock]

I hit them with my sticks. I don't want to waste my ammo on a deer.

[EricS96521]

Am I getting myself in too deep for my second AT hike? The first one I started at the Laurel Falls trailhead and went to Laurel falls and back. This one total will be 66.4miles roundtrip.

[scottdennis]

No, the class does.

It is a good class we have as the mandatory minimum over here in Tennessee. I personally agree the permit system is way over priced, but I think the minimum mandatory training requirement is excellent. My local shooting range has great instructors who are all law enforcement and/or military and they teach above and beyond the mechanics of shooting and the laws required. If you went through their class you would also feel confident when you skinned that smoke wagon.

I assume you haven't been to a Tennessee Permit class, so I also assume you don't have any idea what they teach, and thus no idea why it is a good idea to get trained. Seems give all that, you are more ranting than actually giving anyone good advice.:rolleyes:

Nope! I've actually been completely versed in the safe use of weapons thanks to the USMC. I can read for myself what the laws are regarding the use of a weapon and what the law says regarding the use of lethal force (there is no such thing as shooting to injure).

I don't need to participate in a racket where someone who likely knows less than I do sits in front of me and recites to me what I already know or can read for myself.

I also do not believe that one should have to pay money to exercise their 2nd Amendment right under the same US Constitution that I swore to protect and defend.

I also believe that many states skirt the line by saying "we didn't say you couldn't carry a gun, you just have to jump through a bunch of hoops in order to do so and/or you have to carry your handgun in one area, your clip in another, and your ammo in another area. We still let you carry it but it's useless as far as defense goes.

Meanwhile, the common criminal and thug carried unlicensed/stolen weapons bought off the street and is not afraid to use it. They could give a rip.

Don't preach at me about ranting. Perhaps if more people cared about their rights we wouldn't keep getting unconstitutional laws rammed down our throat for "the common good of everyone."

[SGT Rock]

Naw, you should be fine. You may be over thinking it. I met a fatheer/son team back in 2001 on the AT that was doing their first hike ever and it was from Fontana all the way to Amicalola which is about three times your chunk. They researched gear, got light without going too light, and had a great trip. They only made two mistakes they told me about. One was they got a crappy wal-mart tent that died in the first rainstorm which was OK because there are plenty of shelters. The other was they didn't plan enough food. They saw a Liptons makes two servings so they brought one per night for the both of them. They were starving when I saw them, so I gave them a couple of days food for some AAA batteries to replace mine that had died. They survived and had a great trip - so will you.

[GGS2]

Peeing around you camp can draw in deer in my experience.Jeeze, I wrote that on another thread as a joke. I think the right way is the stealth way all the way. If I were serious about it, I would smoke and steam and bathe, and keep all my odors down. The only one that doesn't attract interest is wood smoke and local herbs. It's just a little impractical to do LNT and full on woodcraft at the same time. It's too crowded around here.

[SGT Rock]

Nope! I've actually been completely versed in the safe use of weapons thanks to the USMC. I can read for myself what the laws are regarding the use of a weapon and what the law says regarding the use of lethal force (there is no such thing as shooting to injure).

I don't need to participate in a racket where someone who likely knows less than I do sits in front of me and recites to me what I already know or can read for myself.

I also do not believe that one should have to pay money to exercise their 2nd Amendment right under the same US Constitution that I swore to protect and defend.

I also believe that many states skirt the line by saying "we didn't say you couldn't carry a gun, you just have to jump through a bunch of hoops in order to do so and/or you have to carry your handgun in one area, your clip in another, and your ammo in another area. We still let you carry it but it's useless as far as defense goes.

Meanwhile, the common criminal and thug carried unlicensed/stolen weapons bought off the street and is not afraid to use it. They could give a rip.

Don't preach at me about ranting. Perhaps if more people cared about their rights we wouldn't keep getting unconstitutional laws rammed down our throat for "the common good of everyone."
Looks like a rant to me. I'm sure you just convinced everyone reading that to follow your advice.

[scottdennis]

Looks like a rant to me. I'm sure you just convinced everyone reading that to follow your advice.

Typical First Sergent BS.

[EricS96521]

Well I've been working on a supplies list and have everything I need (I think).

Supplies:

Toilet Paper
Extra set of dry clothes
Sleeping bag
Tent
Sunglasses
Sunscreen
Insect repellent
Food
Water
Flashlight
Hand sanitizer
Several lighters
Firestarter
Kife
First aid kit
Facket
Poncho
Toothpaste
Toothbrush
Deoderant
Extra socks
Trash bags
Small tarp

The only thing I am lost on is the proper food to bring. I honestly don't want stuff I will have to cook. Just simple stuff.

[EricS96521]

Knife
Jacket**

[SGT Rock]

Yep. 23 years of it. And lots of gun training (19D scout) and two combat tours as a trigger puller. And I still thought the handgun class was good. If you took one you might find out why, but I suppose you would only want to prove to yourself that your opinion you already have is right and would pull some typical private level sniveling.

[Wise Old Owl]

.............

[SGT Rock]

Well I've been working on a supplies list and have everything I need (I think).

Supplies:

Toilet Paper
Extra set of dry clothes
Sleeping bag
Tent
Sunglasses
Sunscreen
Insect repellent
Food
Water
Flashlight
Hand sanitizer
Several lighters
Firestarter
Kife
First aid kit
Facket
Poncho
Toothpaste
Toothbrush
Deoderant
Extra socks
Trash bags
Small tarp

The only thing I am lost on is the proper food to bring. I honestly don't want stuff I will have to cook. Just simple stuff.

It is a generic list. I recommend you look over this article: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=132311#post132311 and start planning it out with some detail. I imagine your idea of fire starter may be overkill. You probably also won't need deodorant, sunscreen, or sunglasses on the AT, as there is a lot of cover overhead. I'd recommend getting some more details of what you plan to use together and posting that list here for some old hands to give you some pointers.

[scottdennis]

Don't need one dude! Sorry, but I don't buy in to the "system" you're trying to peddle. If Gunny Hathcock comes back and tells me I need some more advanced training then I'll go.

I can read laws for myself so I don't need anyone telling me when and when not to use a weapon of any sort.

And I certainly don't believe I need to pay some bureaucrat to exercise my 2nd Amendment right.

[EricS96521]

.............

Ok...


It is a generic list. I recommend you look over this article: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=132311#post132311 and start planning it out with some detail. I imagine your idea of fire starter may be overkill. You probably also won't need deodorant, sunscreen, or sunglasses on the AT, as there is a lot of cover overhead. I'd recommend getting some more details of what you plan to use together and posting that list here for some old hands to give you some pointers.

Thanks..I'll check it out :)

[SGT Rock]

Don't need one dude! Sorry, but I don't buy in to the "system" you're trying to peddle. If Gunny Hathcock comes back and tells me I need some more advanced training then I'll go.

I can read laws for myself so I don't need anyone telling me when and when not to use a weapon of any sort.

And I certainly don't believe I need to pay some bureaucrat to exercise my 2nd Amendment right.


Good for you. You are convincing more and more people how sensible your advice is with every post.

[SGT Rock]

Ok...



Thanks..I'll check it out :)

Good luck man. I hope you have a GREAT time.

[scottdennis]

So you don't like the US Constitution you swore to protect and defend?

You may know something about hiking and camping, but you certainly need a lesson in constitutional law and the erosion of our freedoms in this country.

I'm done with you! Go file some papers First Sergent.

[SGT Rock]

I'm all over the constitution. I know all about it. I recommend someone that plans to carry also get educated. Imagine that, they even cover that sort of info in the class.

But you wouldn't know that would you.

[Wise Old Owl]

Typical First Sergent BS.

Whay out of line Recruit....

[SGT Rock]

Disregard. I've known lots of barracks lawyers so convinced they are right as they pull extra duty and restriction.

[EricS96521]

So you don't like the US Constitution you swore to protect and defend?

You may know something about hiking and camping, but you certainly need a lesson in constitutional law and the erosion of our freedoms in this country.

I'm done with you! Go file some papers First Sergent.

I would have to agree with Sgt Rock on this debate. Even if the law says you can do something, not everyone should. You should be well trained in the use of a firearm. I understand you already know a lot about them, but what would it hurt to take a class? You can always learn something new/talk to other experienced users.

[SGT Rock]

Some people refuse to learn. Especially if they are already convinced they know it all. I thought I was good with a handgun until I got my new job. I'm good, but there are a lot of VERY good guys out there.

And, FWIW, a few Marines, and a Green Beret in my class agree with this.

With guns, you can always be better than you are.

[Wise Old Owl]

You should take a class for a drivers licence - just saying.

Directed to ScottDennis.

[SGT Rock]

Also, FWIW, the training is not done by any government bureaucrats. Anyone (almost anyone) can become a firearms instructor in Tennessee. They just have to meet those requirements and teach the minimum level of training when doing the class. Many go above an beyond that minimum. I have a guy I worked with that would teach the class for free occasionally. You only have to provide your own gun and ammo and pay your own range fees for the shooting portion.

But you may also not know that if you never took the training.

[Mags]

The only thing I am lost on is the proper food to bring. I honestly don't want stuff I will have to cook. Just simple stuff.

This was written for beginner backpackers in CO, but the general principles should apply for anywhere:
http://www.pmags.com/joomla/index.php/Backpacking-and-Hiking-documents/Backpacking-A-Beginners-Primer.html

Has tips on the basic clothing, gear and even some simple meal ideas.


Be safe..and have fun! :)

PS. Rock had some good links, too. He knows what he's talking about! :sun
PPS. Don't sweat the gear too much. Get some hikes in to see what works for you. Gear is probably the least important part of backpacking!


So you don't like the US Constitution you swore to protect and defend?



Cut the crap. Strawman arguments have nothing to do with a young man getting ready for one of his first extended backpacking trips. Have some advice? Cool. Otherwise, shut the pie hole. :)

[prain4u]

22 years ago, I was being stalked by a mentally ill guy. I carried a .38 special in a boot holster pretty much anywhere that I went--including in the pulpit when preaching. (This was all upon the recommendation of local law enforcement). I also kept a 20 gauge shotgun by my front door and I kept my favorite weapon--a .308 pump action rifle--in my bedroom. Thus, I am familiar with carrying weapons and have mentally worked through the scenarios in which I would not hesitate to use my weapons--even on another human being.

It is my personal feeling that carrying a firearm on the AT is pretty much useless--and possibly dangerous---especially if you are not 100% comfortable using the weapon.

Here are the options.....

1. You can constantly walk around with your weapon "at the ready" and pretty much have other people thinking that you are the nut that THEY need to be afraid of. (If they are afraid of you--and they have a firearm themselves--they might panic and shoot you).

2. If you don't have your weapon constantly out and "ready"--it is not much of a useful deterrent against someone (or some animal) that is determined to attack you and cause you harm.

3. If someone REALLY wants to attack you while you are sleeping outdoors--they will probably be successful. A firearm will not protect you--unless you constantly sleep with one eye open and start firing upon everything that makes a noise at night. (And that seems to be bit silly)

[gunner76]

Disregard. I've known lots of barracks lawyers so convinced they are right as they pull extra duty and restriction.

I bet alot of those barracks lawyers are prime canidates for the Darwin Awards ( In honor of Charles Darwin, the Darwin Awards commemorate those who improve our gene pool...by accidentally removing themselves from it. By necessity, the award is generally bestowed posthumously. )

I have nothing against folks carry fire arms as long as they have the proper training. I am a retired Marine and I have fired a variety of weapons once or twice.

What no has ever answered and I have posted this question before on other gun threads is How many times has an AT hiker had to use a gun to protect themselves while hiking on the trail ?

[Dkeener]

Methinks its time to lock up this thread.

[JDCool1]

right you are my boy, right you are. a gun is one thing, a pop of spray another. been hiking 50 plus years and yet to run into someone that needed a pop on the head. if you meet someone who makes you uncomfortable, just keep on moving. most trouble makers do not want to use the energy to walk far from the road. camp some distance from road crossings to be on the safe side. the only varmit you may meet will be the little mice in the shelters.

[The Weasel]

I would have to agree with Sgt Rock on this debate. Even if the law says you can do something, not everyone should. You should be well trained in the use of a firearm. I understand you already know a lot about them, but what would it hurt to take a class? You can always learn something new/talk to other experienced users.

Do you know what lawyers call people who think they "know all they need to know about the law"?

"Cients,"when they find out they didn't. But yeah, it's a living.

The Weasel

[Tuts]

I'm not sure if this was said already but I read in my research before I went on the trail that it was illegal to carry a firearm in national parks even if you have a permit unless you are law enforcement. (not sure about any hunting seasons)

[Wise Old Owl]

Well said JD.

[Class2010AT]

BTW guys as soon as you enter a national park you basicly lose all your rights, a ranger/officer can search out for no reason, and you usally end up having to pay the max fine.

[Class2010AT]

Nope! I've actually been completely versed in the safe use of weapons thanks to the USMC. I can read for myself what the laws are regarding the use of a weapon and what the law says regarding the use of lethal force (there is no such thing as shooting to injure).

I don't need to participate in a racket where someone who likely knows less than I do sits in front of me and recites to me what I already know or can read for myself.

I also do not believe that one should have to pay money to exercise their 2nd Amendment right under the same US Constitution that I swore to protect and defend.

I also believe that many states skirt the line by saying "we didn't say you couldn't carry a gun, you just have to jump through a bunch of hoops in order to do so and/or you have to carry your handgun in one area, your clip in another, and your ammo in another area. We still let you carry it but it's useless as far as defense goes.

Meanwhile, the common criminal and thug carried unlicensed/stolen weapons bought off the street and is not afraid to use it. They could give a rip.

Don't preach at me about ranting. Perhaps if more people cared about their rights we wouldn't keep getting unconstitutional laws rammed down our throat for "the common good of everyone."
Just IMO it makes me feel better to know that if i have seen a person with a handgun(non-hostile situation) that they atleast have min training w opperation and safty. Honestly I can see know reason to EVER carry one no matter where you are(war is a diffrent story).

[TD55]

A sign that says "Something is Wrong with Me" printed on lightweight cloth and attached to your person or pack would be much lighter (UL even) than a gun and bullets and still give the same message to your fellow hikers. You could add "Scaredy Cat" to the sign if you wanted the sign to be more informative. Just sayin....

[Alligator]

The OP's question was answered.

[SGT Rock]

Thread should probably be closed as the OP got answered but...


I'm not sure if this was said already but I read in my research before I went on the trail that it was illegal to carry a firearm in national parks even if you have a permit unless you are law enforcement. (not sure about any hunting seasons)

That recently changed. http://thru-hiker.com/materials/breathable.php

Took effect January 22.


BTW guys as soon as you enter a national park you basicly lose all your rights, a ranger/officer can search out for no reason, and you usally end up having to pay the max fine.

Not true. They must have the same level of probable cause for a search as for any other violation. If they stop you (detain) they may do what is known as a cursory search/pat down for officer safety.