Drugs and Alcohol in Baxter State Park

[Lone Wolf]

It's against the rules and regs to drink alcohol in Baxter St. Park. You rule breakers shouldn't throw empties at Warren.

[Kerosene]

I found these photos taken by Lonesome Dove of several of our fellow WhiteBlaze posters:

Baltimore Jack & One-Leg (http://www.trailjournals.com/photos.cfm?id=64717)

Lonesome Dove & Bluebearee (http://www.trailjournals.com/photos.cfm?id=61852)

[smokymtnsteve]

Perhaps this belongs in the Rules & Regulations thread :D

http://www.baxterstateparkauthority.com/rules/allrules.html


27. LIQUOR AND DRUGS: General laws of the State pertaining to liquor and drugs apply within the Park. Maine law prohibits drinking of alcoholic beverages in public places.

Interesting No Alcohol allowed in Baxter but according to the General Law of the State of Maine.

Maine


SUMMARY: Sixty-one percent of voters approved Question 2 on November 2, 1999. The law took effect on December 22, 1999. It removes state-level criminal penalties on the use, possession and cultivation of marijuana by patients who possess an oral or written "professional opinion" from their physician that he or she "might benefit from the medical use of marijuana." Patients diagnosed with the following illnesses are afforded legal protection under this act: epilepsy and other disorders characterized by seizures; glaucoma; multiple sclerosis and other disorders characterized by muscle spasticity; and nausea or vomiting as a result of AIDS or cancer chemotherapy. Patients (or their primary caregivers) may legally possess no more than one and one-quarter ounces of usable marijuana, and may cultivate no more than six marijuana plants, of which no more than three may be mature. Those patients who possess greater amounts of marijuana than allowed by law are afforded a "simple defense" to a charge of marijuana possession. The law does not establish a state-run patient registry.

AMENDMENTS: Yes. Senate Bill 611, which was signed into law on April 2, 2002, increases the amount of useable marijuana a person may possess from one and one-quarter ounces to two and one-half ounces.

CONTACT INFORMATION: Brochures outlining Maine’s medical marijuana law are available from:

Mainers for Medical Rights
P.O. Box 746
Gorham, ME 04084
(800) 846-1039

[MOWGLI]

Patients diagnosed with the following illnesses are afforded legal protection under this act: epilepsy and other disorders characterized by seizures; glaucoma; multiple sclerosis and other disorders characterized by muscle spasticity; and nausea or vomiting as a result of AIDS or cancer chemotherapy.


It is pretty clear that the vast majority of folks who qualify for medical marijuana are going to be too sick to hike the Appalachian Trail. The overwhelming majority of pot smokers on the trail are recreational users.

[smokymtnsteve]

It is pretty clear that the vast majority of folks who qualify for medical marijuana are going to be too sick to hike the Appalachian Trail. The overwhelming majority of pot smokers on the trail are recreational users.

well in my case looks like the state law of Maine and the rules of Baxter would allow it. :rolleyes:

[Mountain Dew]

Smokymtnsteve.....what is your need for medicinal mary jane to be used ?

[smokymtnsteve]

Smokymtnsteve.....what is your need for medicinal mary jane to be used ?


Back in 1983 I was the victim of a robbery attempt, I was stabbed thru the throat, right wrist and back. It was a home invasion, but do not fear as only one of us survived the incident ;)

after the assailant was "subdued" I used my EMT training to control my bleeding and called myself an ambulance.

Being the Pesky Patient that I am to this day, I would not release my grip on the throat wound until the surgeon was on the scene, he told me later that this action saved my life, I went into surgery for repair of my wounds.

I spent the next week in ICU on a respirator, and then the next 3 weeks being feed by an NG tube, nothing by mouth not even an Ice chip. Of course with all the blood loss, I recieved many transfusions, thank Goddess for all the good folks that donated that blood, even the contaimated blood that I recieved, because without it I would have died.

Let's just say that it was a LONG strange trip, but after about 6 months I was able to go back to work, then I started a trucking businsess, married, had children, and lived life.

but then after a trip to FL in the winter of 1994 to do some diving and to look for a sailboat to buy, I came down with bronchitis, went to a doc who prescribed some anti-biotics, I didn't get better my throat filled with canadais yeast infection, I went back to the doc, He said it looked like I had an immune disorder HIV/AIDS.

so he asked me,

Are you gay/bisexual?

NO

Are you a IV drug user?

NO

Did you have a blood transfusion prior to 1985?

YES.

so I got tested and sure enough the test came back Positive,
what a nightmare everything became, lost everything, wife, family.(who btw did not become infected)

right at my diagnosis I had Full-Blown AIDS, I went into a AIDS hospice to die, a place called JERUSALEM HOUSE. I studied the Disease to try and figure out what to do, I joined ARCA (AIDS Research Consortium of Atlanta) and studied many protocols, luckily in Dec. of 95 a new drug epivir joined the arsenal so I started combo therapy of AZT/3Tc, as time went by I joined a Protease Inhibitor trial, as these meds make you feel pretty yucky my doc suggested that I try smoking some MJ to overcome the side effects of the toxic meds I was taking, so I did , it worked , I started feeeling better, I was able to enjoy eating, I gained back weight. (i had went down to 97 lbs)

I got BETTER, could do more activities, moved out of the Hospice and into an old Airstream travel trailer up in the Smokies(1999), I read a lot of Horace Kephart, who said something to the effect of " I came to these mtns to get my health back and I intend to stay here the rest of my life"

I started day hiking to rebuild my body, and then the next year 2000, I walked to the Smokies from GA worked a stint as caretaker at Ice Water spring shelter and then continued to Damacus for the Beaver Dam JAM.
(I spent a week at Elmers in Hot Springs resting that year, thanks Elmer)

and since that time I have hiked hundreds of miles on the AT,

I use the Med MJ to combat the side effects of the Meds that I must take, also MJ causes you to eat. another benefit is the calming of the Immune system , the virus causes your immune system to "rev up" until it immplodes, MJ calms this effect, and helps raise your cd4 levels ( a measurement of immune system) without the MJ I feel really yucky and have a hard time eating , my muscles ache, and I just generally feel bad. I am one of the longest surviving PWAs in the country, they study me to find out what I do to stay healthy, guess what , Medical MJ!, Organic vegan diet. (KMA LW :D )

so that is why I use Medical MJ, not to have LEGAL Medical MJ is BARBARIC!

[Rain Man]

so that is why I use Medical MJ, not to have LEGAL Medical MJ is BARBARIC!

More power to you, Steve. Keep on truckin'.

Was good to meet you after Hard Core Days at Kincora this year.

Rain Man

.

[smokymtnsteve]

Thanks RAIN MAN, good to meet you too,
even though I worked and you ate :p

we NEED enlightened attorneys such as yourself :sun

sms

[Alligator]

SMS, I admire your tenacity. I have a real world understanding of the uncertainty of living with a life-ending disease and the need for alternative treatments. I am proud to have cast my vote with the majority of Mainers. Count your blessings if you do not have a loved one afflicted by any of these diseases, but vote like you do. You never think it's going to happen to you, but sometimes it just does.

FWIW SMS, should you attend the Gathering, you are welcome to either stay at my house or to find just temporary refuge from the Grand Prohibitionists of the Endangered Services Society.

[Nightwalker]

So that is why I use Medical MJ, not to have LEGAL Medical MJ is BARBARIC!I agree. I used to smoke it for migraine relief. It worked much better than narcotic pain meds ever did. After being told by a magistrate--while pleading guilty to simple posession--"we don't buy into that s**t. You dopers'll use any excuse to get high, and we'll be watching your sorry @ss from now on.", I figured I'd better just learn to suffer.

Right now, I'm not having many headaches, but I really resent not being able to use something that my neuro says is reasonable and useful, when I really need it.

BTW, I can pass any drug test out there, including hair follicle, even though I shouldn't have to. The stupid thing is that I could go to the ER where they know me and get Demerol or stronger by injection any day I needed it. I don't however. I get Neubain, which kills pain, but blocks the buzz. It ain't about the high, it's about the relief.

So now I'm outta that little closet...

:cool:

[attroll]

I split this thread since it no longer was pertaining to was to celibrate at Katahdin.

[smokymtnsteve]

Right now, I'm not having many headaches, but I really resent not being able to use something that my neuro says is reasonable and useful, when I really need it.

:cool:

Hang in there Frank...one of my life ambitions is to see Legal Medical MJ, along with a legal, safe and clean distribution system.

heck just legal MJ for that matter...
not to allow legal Personal use is silly and stupid, and a waste of tax dollars for enforcement. (maybe we should use those tax dollars to find the offenders breaking car windows of hikers ;) )

but to not legally allow medical MJ is simply BARBARIC!

btw Thanks to the majority of voters in MAINE! :sun

[Tha Wookie]

Smymtnsteve,


Thank you for sharing your story. The criminalization of MJ is a terrible thing for so many people who suffer like you (and for many people who don't). Even to lesser degrees, many people can benefit greatly with little or no side effects, and grow the dang stuff right in their yard (it's a weed!). That must piss the drug companies off something awful.

There are many states now adopting rules similar to Maine. Washington, Oregon, Arizona, and I think about five others that I've heard about.

In Northern California, where weed growing abounds, I heard locals during our hike talk about the federal "black helicopters" that swoop in and take crops, arresting anyone in sight, but never taking them down in a full-scale operation. I have a Marine friend who told me they use those situations for training. Funny, huh?

The paper industry would be slammed by even partial legalization. Imagine if growing hemp was again legal as it was when our Constitution was written on it or when they planted it along the railroad tracks in WWI. Even though it has no TCH and can yeild twice as much paper as an acre of lumber (plus turns over far quicker), the backward lawmakers won't make an exception -yet. But they will.

And they will for people in physical and psychological pain by prescription, if the issue is pressed in public. So thanks again for raising the issue. See you on the trail.

[Mountain Dew]

I've known many MJ users and almost like the rising sun most all of them eventually move on to other drugs after initially experimenting with MJ. I'm convinced that it is a gateway drug. Saying that..... There is in fact a need for medicinal use of MJ, but the people who abuse this "loop hole" tend to do harm to the cause.

[orangebug]

One of the problems with Prohibition has been the creation of "gateway drugs" The drug most associated as a "gateway" has been tobacco. Of course, tobacco is the only commonly used drug that will kill if used according to recommendations.

By maintaining an agent as available only thru a black market, you expose the user to other commodities available through that black market. If Prohibition is ended in a small region, one actually increases abuse and complications of use within that region. Prohibition ignores any potential beneficial use of an agent, and engenders rumor as the only available means to evaluate such agents - especially when the government forbids the scientific method from questioning legislative edict.

This is a complicated problem, with few solutions that fit Americans' desire for no risk resolution.

[Blue Jay]

I've known many MJ users and almost like the rising sun most all of them eventually move on to other drugs after initially experimenting with MJ. I'm convinced that it is a gateway drug.

99.9% of heroin users have also experimented drinking milk. I am convinced milk is a gateway drug and must be banned immediately. Also, 100% of them have abused oxygen, it also must be banned. You continue to shine.

[Deb]

Smokymtnsteve, that was an amazing story. Thank you for sharing. I first came across your name when I was reading Little Chicken's trail journal this year. She mentioned you had some kind of health problem, but little did I know.

[blindeye]

smokymtnsteve, what a story glad your still with us. i am legally blind from an eye disease (retinitis pigmentosa) and the occasional toke helps me quite a bit. as was mentioned earlier it's a weed, if it helps use it!!
i plan a thru hike in 06 and my sight being what it is if smokin' a little helps then that is exactly what i'll do
again more power to ya' steve best of luck

[smokymtnsteve]

I've known many MJ users and almost like the rising sun most all of them eventually move on to other drugs after initially experimenting with MJ. I'm convinced that it is a gateway drug. .

that is just not true, but you are also convinced of many other "facts" that are just not true.

here is a fact, most hard drug users used alcohol before moving onto hard drugs.

[smokymtnsteve]

Smokymtnsteve, that was an amazing story. Thank you for sharing. I first came across your name when I was reading Little Chicken's trail journal this year. She mentioned you had some kind of health problem, but little did I know.

oh yes, Little Chicken,,, :)

http://www.trailjournals.com/photos.cfm?id=50621

just heard from her a couple days ago, we are still good friends and communicate regularly, she is teaching in Texas right now, thinking of doing a AT film next season,

just for the record,,,Lil Chicken is not a smoker of any substance.

[Blue Jay]

It's against the rules and regs to drink alcohol in Baxter St. Park. You rule breakers shouldn't throw empties at Warren.

That cannot be true, that would mean Baltimore Jack, who gave alcohol to Footslogger there, blatently broke a rule and maybe even a dreaded regulation. Oh, my, my faith in humanity has been destroyed. All of those countless long tirads about following every last rule were just crap. Baltimore Jack is as bad as that horrible gate crasher Warren. I truly hope it is not true.

[smokymtnsteve]

That cannot be true, that would mean Baltimore Jack, who gave alcohol to Footslogger there, blatently broke a rule and maybe even a dreaded regulation. Oh, my, my faith in humanity has been destroyed. All of those countless long tirads about following every last rule were just crap. Baltimore Jack is as bad as that horrible gate crasher Warren. I truly hope it is not true.


OH NO...Say it ISN"T SO! :D

PLEASE STAND FOR THE GOSPEL OF ABBEY!

"The plow of mortality drives through the stubble, turns over rocks and sod and weeds to cover the old, the worn-out, the husks, shells, empty seedpods and sapless roots, clearing the field for the next crop. A ruthless, brutal process - but clean and beautiful."

THANKS BE TO ABBEY!

[Lone Wolf]

Thanks Blue Jay, that was my point. :cool: Lots of hypocrisy in the air.

[Tha Wookie]

If there's any place in America that deserves respect for its rules, as prescribed by the donator of the land Percevial Baxter, it is Baxter State Park in Maine. Is their a more holy shrine on the AT?

[Lone Wolf]

It's just a mountain really. I like Springer better.

[Alligator]

It's just a mountain really. I like Springer better.What are the rules regarding this issue on Springer?

[rocket04]

That cannot be true, that would mean Baltimore Jack, who gave alcohol to Footslogger there, blatently broke a rule and maybe even a dreaded regulation. Oh, my, my faith in humanity has been destroyed. All of those countless long tirads about following every last rule were just crap. Baltimore Jack is as bad as that horrible gate crasher Warren. I truly hope it is not true.
At the risk of drawing some frowns, I kind of like what the Dalai Lama says, something along the lines of "Learn the rules well so you know how to break them properly." I guess it's all about knowing the objective of the rule. The objective is likely to avoid drunk people on dangerous trails, as well as avoiding that people discard empty bottles/cans everywhere. Probably other reasons too. But if Jack really did what you say he did understanding the rules and knowing it would do no harm, I don't particularly have a problem with it. I know it's a risky proposition to accept this because everybody can start thinking they know when to break the rules. But I still believe in that saying, it's just you need to be very careful how you use it.

[Tha Wookie]

It's just a mountain really. I like Springer better.

No, actually it is more than a mountian. It's a monadnock.

[weary]

There is no rule against alcohol in Baxter State Park -- unless it was promulgated in the past few weeks.

General state law prevails, which means you can't drink in public places. But your campsite is considered your private domain.

I guess the summit of Katahdin qualifies as a public place, but I doubt if anyone has ever been busted for having congratulatory beer or wine on Baxter Peak, especially if they have just walked north from Springer.

For an example, open:

http://www.trailjournals.com/photos.cfm?id=65079

Weary

[Jack Tarlin]

I was going to stay outta this one, bit in light of recent remarks by Blue Jay and Wolf, a comment seems to be in order.

I've been in Baxter State Park probably fifteen times in the past ten years. On more occasions than I can count, I've seen thru-hikers having a few drinks either on arriving at the park, or more likely, after they've just come down after summitting Katahdin. On many of these occasions, Baxter staff has been present and witnessed the behavior. On NO occasion have I ever seen a Baxter staffer or any other official, comment, either to inform folks about Park regulations, or to reprimand or take acton against those they've seen in these situations. I have also seen families of thru-hikers set up celebrtory meals, including coolers, in front of park officials, and it's patently obvious to all present that the Rangers could care less. I've seen people ASK Rangers if there was a problem, and the Rangers said it wasn't. In other words, the enforcement of the alcohol regulation is selective.

(Incidentally, I've also seen folks who were obviously NOT thru-hikers unloading coolers and adult beverages in the sight of Park officials as they "move in" to shelters or cabins. Again, the Rangers have said nothing, obviously feeling that while having a few social drinks at your campsite or in a rented cabin may in fact be "public" consumption, but it is not something they choose to involve themselves with. In fact, if you go the Baxter website to examine their list of rules and regulations, you'll see that before listing ALL of the various regulations, they first provide a summary of the ones they feel are the most significant. The advisory on public drinking is NOT listed here; obviously, in NOT stressing this issue in their summary of
critical rules and regulations, they're saying that this is not a problem or issue that they feel the need to stress or highlight).

It is very clear that Baxter officials are selective with their enforcement of this rule; just as officials are in Damascus during Trail Days; the officials in both places exercise great restraint in enforcement of the rules, and show all sorts of latitude, depending on what they're seeing. In every case, a celebratory drink or two is not something that they wish to bother with.

And before anyone jumps down my throat on this, I am NOT saying that hikers should only be concerned with laws that they know are likely to be enforced and may ignore the rest, but there's a hell of a lotta difference between breaking into a closed facility, or skipping out on an entrance fee or service charge as compared to downing a celebratory beer in front of a Park Ranger who clearly sees what you're doing and obviously doesn't care.

When a Park official lets people know that a celebratory beer after you've hiked 2174 miles is not something that he particularly cares about or wishes to involve himself with----well, in cases like this, I'm not entirely sure that what you're doing is that wrong. When the guy with the badge says "No, I don't mind, congratulations, and please pack out your trash before you leave the Park!", well, this kinda gives the impression that what you're doing is OK.

Comparing this to breaking and entering or theft of services is more than a little ridiculous, as I bet the folks that do these things don't dare do 'em in front of any officials, rangers, or cops. Or maybe they do. But I really kinda doubt it.

[Blue Jay]

There is no rule against alcohol in Baxter State Park -- unless it was promulgated in the past few weeks.

Thank you, my faith in humanity has been restored. Lone Wolf was just trying to get me in trouble, as if I needed any help.

[wacocelt]

Steve, thanks a ton for sharing, you are an inspiration. Thank the goddess indeed, Be well brother.

Mt Dew, Tripp and I are buying an RV soon, you up for a visit?

2005 Gulf Stream Conquest 280D

If all the paperwork clears thats our new casa.

eidt:: Bleh, that was suppose to be a link, I guess you could just cut and paste to google or somethin'.

[Lone Wolf]

Monadnock is a mountain in NH.

[Lone Wolf]

I just called the Baxter Park office and they said drinking is OK as long as it stays at your campsite and you don't get rowdy.

[smokymtnsteve]

Steve, thanks a ton for sharing, you are an inspiration. Thank the goddess indeed, Be well brother.

Mt Dew, Tripp and I are buying an RV soon, you up for a visit?

2005 Gulf Stream Conquest 280D

If all the paperwork clears thats our new casa.

eidt:: Bleh, that was suppose to be a link, I guess you could just cut and paste to google or somethin'.


thanks but, no thanks, I am a real conservative.

[Chappy]

Steve,
Though I don't agree with your philosophy on deity, I do admire your tenacity and your positive approach to wellness. My Dad had renal failure and was on dialysis for over seven years. During that time he had many blood transfusions and my biggest concern was tainted blood. Fortunately, he never had a disease from tainted blood. May you continue to live a happy life! :sun

[smokymtnsteve]

I just called the Baxter Park office and they said drinking is OK as long as it stays at your campsite and you don't get rowdy.


well a regulation is a regulation, then they need to re-write the regs to reflect the new "rules"

do not these Baxter Officials have any ethics about Fair and Equal enforcement?

even to the point of being present at the rule breaking event...I bet those rangers are drinking too. these guys should quit thier jobs and give back the TAX dollars that they have taken by not doing thier job. :D

Hey Wolf...did ya ckeck about the med MJ with Baxter? :clap

[smokymtnsteve]

Steve,
Though I don't agree with your philosophy on deity, I do admire your tenacity and your positive approach to wellness. My Dad had renal failure and was on dialysis for over seven years. During that time he had many blood transfusions and my biggest concern was tainted blood. Fortunately, he never had a disease from tainted blood. May you continue to live a happy life! :sun

Thanks chappy, like Rock says "Most folks who think they disagree, agree more than they think"

[Lone Wolf]

Alligator, Springer Mtn. lies within a national forest. Just about anything goes in a NF. Hell, those stinkin, dreadheaded Rainbow idiots gather every in a national forest and foul it up something awful. I kick hippies. :D

[wacocelt]

Doh, I wrote my post entirely wrong, sorry for the confusion Steve.

I was asking Mt Dew if he was up for a visit. I wrote the post about 10 minutes after waking up, not that my grammur iz eny betur now.

[Flash Hand]

I split this thread since it no longer was pertaining to was to celibrate at Katahdin.

Job well done, because it is somewhat conflict with health issue, personal issue and Katahdin.. People need to think separately, one with good positive of celebration at the end of thru hike and to learn and educate others the hardship of life is.

Flash Hand :jump

[smokymtnsteve]

PLEASE STAND FOR THE GOSPEL OF ABBEY!

"Life is cruel? Compared to what?"

THANKS BE TO ABBEY!

[Nightwalker]

I kick hippies. :DCareful there, cause if you miss one, you're quite likely to fall on yer silly old butt. :p

[Peaks]

Monadnock is a mountain in NH.

It is also a geological term used to describe mountains that stand alone, such as Monadnock in New Hampshire, Ascutney in Vermont, and Katahdin in Maine.

[weary]

well a regulation is a regulation, then they need to re-write the regs to reflect the new "rules"
do not these Baxter Officials have any ethics about Fair and Equal enforcement?


Let me say it once more. There is no regulation about drinking in Baxter Park other than state law, which is enforced as well as any law regulating human activities is enforced.

Your campsite is your home. You have as much right to drink there as you have to drink in your home in Maine. You have as much right to drink in the area around your campsite as you have the right to drink on your lawn in full view of the neighbors.

Other state parks in Maine have specific rules about drinking. Baxter is run by a special park authority, which wisely decided 3 or 4 decades ago to treat Baxter differently than other parks.

The confusion is over the meaning of the state law. Drinking in the view of the "public" is not illegal. People do it all the time in restaurants, at picnics, even to celebrate in an evening gown on the summit of Katahdin the achievement of having walked north from Georgia.

Only drinking in public "places" is illegal and there is a wealth of case law going all the way to the Maine Supreme Court that defines what that means. Basically, it means that if you avoid getting drunk and disorderly, your safe most everywheres.

However, don't carry an open partially filled alcohol container if you are driving either in or out of the Park. The open bottle law in automobiles is enforced, everywhere in Maine.

Weary

[bearbait2k4]

I've known many MJ users and almost like the rising sun most all of them eventually move on to other drugs after initially experimenting with MJ. I'm convinced that it is a gateway drug.
Most people that do move on to other drugs after mj do so largely because other drugs are always offered or pushed on them when they buy mj. Eventually, after having someone offer you a harder drug over and over again, curiosity will get the best of you. This is where the gateway theory comes in.

If mj were legalized, the "gateway" to the other drugs (i.e. dealers) would be closed.

[Alligator]

Alligator, Springer Mtn. lies within a national forest. Just about anything goes in a NF. Hell, those stinkin, dreadheaded Rainbow idiots gather every in a national forest and foul it up something awful. I kick hippies. :D
That's too much information, but good incentive to check my maps first before I ask. Thanks bellybutton.

[Nightwalker]

It is also a geological term used to describe mountains that stand alone, such as Monadnock in New Hampshire, Ascutney in Vermont, and Katahdin in Maine.Around here, they call those "orphan" mountains. Is that just a southernism, or is it also used elsewhere?