View Full Version : Using a tarp on the AT
So I am doing an 11 day hike from Neel's Gap to Fontana Dam in May. I have recently decided to purchase a tarp, and it should be here any day. Its an 8X 10 OES flat tarp. I don't really have any experience with a tarp so I will definitely be outside playing with it in the back yard a lot, as well as actually using it on a few overnight trips before I go. I want to be able to know that I can use it effectively before I take it out as my home for 11 days.
So, here are some questions. Of course I am concerned about the tarp keeping me from the weather, particularly the rain, but during the end of May, how is the weather typically. I don't imagine there would be snow, but I'm not sure. Also how about the temperatures?
The thing I liked about a tent is that it would keep slithering things out of my tent while I am asleep. With the tarp I am open. So I was debating getting a bug bivy such as the OR bug bivy or the Integral Designs Bugabivy. These 2 are fully enclosed so IMO they will do 2 things. Keep the bugs out and keep the snakes out. So, on this, just how bad will the flying blood suckers be during the end of May, and for that matter the snakes? I just don't want to wake up with a snake curled up with me inside my sleeping bag. Any thoughts, or suggestions on this? Bugs, snakes, bivies....
Also, any advice on the tarp is welcome. The big 3 designs I've looked at is the A-frame, the flying diamond, and the half pyramid. I like the half pyramid using my trekking pole, but how does it do in different types of weather? I was thinking that if the weather started getting wet I could just lower the front pole down and use my other pole inside the tent lifting the middle of the tent up, maybe even restake the front stakes to make the tarp taut again.
Anyway, this is just to get started....
sidebackside
03-11-2010, 15:50
STICK! Hey brother! Don't know much about what your asking but glad to hear your gettin' back out there! Hope all is well!
SBS, great to hear from ya man! Hey I emailed you last night, did you get it?
johnnyblisters
03-11-2010, 15:57
Your off to a good start by setting it up and getting used to tarping, it takes lots of practice to get it right for different weather conditions. Now on to your questions...
1) Spring=Rain (also cool nice hiking days!)
2) If you feel more comfortable with a bivy, go for it. I never use one when I tarp but the mosquitoes can really drive you crazy. They shouldn't be to bad this time of year though. The snake issue is for you to decide on.
3) I like an A frame on clear nights and a flying diamond on rainy nights. The flying diamond in the opposite direction of the wind with all lines guyed out has gotten me through some wet storms.
Have fun on your hike and keep your tarp taught!
I hear that about the flying diamond. Seems bombproof (if done right) when it comes to tarps....from what I've read. I will definitely be practicing though, especially with that one. From what I've read it can be a little trickier to get it set right with an oblong tarp, as opposed to the square. However, they say it can still be done. I like the idea of being able to have a fire near too, even though I never really include a fire in my hikes.
I have also read to seal up the edges with leaves, or pieces of dead limbs or what nots. I assume this is food for the bad weather.
Oh, and the snakes. I was wondering if anyone is familiar with this stretch, how bad are the snakes during late May. It seems like they will be out good by this time.
bigcranky
03-11-2010, 16:07
With an 8x10 tarp, in my experience A-frame is easier than half-pyramid unless you make it really tall. No worries about snakes -- they don't crawl in with you. Bugs are a different story, so that depends on your tolerance. I would bring a couple of extra stakes and guy lines to provide more pitching options. An 8x10 is plenty of room for weather protection. Bring a good size ground sheet for your floor.
The biggest and most important issue with tarps is site selection. You have to be very careful to keep water from running through your campsite.
I was going to cut a piece of tyvek big enough for my pad and bag as well as a little extra for me to put my gear on, or maybe me sitting up. That will be fine with me if it's really tall, but then again if I use my poles I will be limited to the height of them, but I was also thinking the lower the front pole The higher the pole inside the back (if needed). I don't know. I can't wait for the tarp to get here so I can go play with it!
I have read to choose a site with just a slight slope, or completely flat.
Also, for bugs, if I didn't do the bivy I was thinking about using some velcro and hanging some no see um netting on the open ends.
I too am inexperienced with tarps, but it looks like an attractive option for me. I'll be heading north out of Damascus in about a month, and plan to take one with me. Since I probably won't have time for a shakedown hike, and I live in town with a small yard and no trees, I plan on taking the tarp and a one person bivy. The bivy, I'll use mostly as a backup and once I become more comfortable with the tarp, I'll mail the bivy home.
Bugs are your main concern. I have never had a problem with snakes crawling in. Nor have I heard of that being a problem. Mice will pay you a visit if there is food.
So, what kind of recommendations for bivys? I looked at the REI Minimalist bivy and seen an MSR E-Bivy, The MSR bivy looks like it would lay right on your face though. I gotta have it off of my face.
I bought a $25 cheapie at a local sporting goods store. Prospect Trekker Solo, surprisingly not too bad of a tent. However, it is tight in there, and if it rains the weight makes the roof sag toward your face. It's not really my cup of tea, but it'll work for a week or two til I get the tarp situation figured out.
Ladytrekker
03-11-2010, 17:50
Good site for tarp setups.
http://hikinghq.net/gear/tarp.html
That is a great site, and not just for tarping!
I have my tent but I just wanted to try tarping. From what I've read they're very versatile, and open, obviously. Of course there are more tents that I will have in the future too.....
....
The biggest and most important issue with tarps is site selection. You have to be very careful to keep water from running through your campsite.
VERY important. I've used a tarp in a down pour with a down quilt and stayed dry by making sure the ground sloped away in every direction. It also can make a big difference on how warm or cold you may be because of a prevailing wind. If I'm stealth camping along a ridge I may drop down a little off the ridge out of the wind. Find the lee side of the ridge.
bigcranky
03-11-2010, 21:04
So, what kind of recommendations for bivys? I looked at the REI Minimalist bivy and seen an MSR E-Bivy, The MSR bivy looks like it would lay right on your face though. I gotta have it off of my face.
You do NOT want a waterproof bivy, you'll sweat to death. I don't care how "breathable" the ad writer at REI says it is, he's not sleeping in the thing in the summer in the Southern Appalachians. Good gracious, that MSR bivy has a SILNYLON TOP. Youch. It's going to be a sauna.
The best bet is a mesh "bug bivy," like the A-16 (http://www.amazon.com/Apada-Industries-A16-Single-Bivy/dp/B00194BBHM) or the Outdoor Research models (http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/63615?pi=1066250&qs=3012739-Google_Base&subrnd=0), or one of the bivys from Titanium Goat (http://www.titaniumgoat.com/Bivy.html), Mountain Laurel Designs (http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=134), etc.
I'd go with the A16 if I had to buy one, but I made my own (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=15028&catid=member&imageuser=266).
Big Cranky, I like that bivy. While Im not 100% sure that I will, I am toying with the idea of making one myself (ok having someone else sew it for me). Do you have the details / specs for that DIY bivy and where to get materials or list or something?
If you like a bivy similar to what Big Cranky showed, look at this:
http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=61
bigcranky
03-11-2010, 22:45
Big Cranky, I like that bivy. While Im not 100% sure that I will, I am toying with the idea of making one myself (ok having someone else sew it for me). Do you have the details / specs for that DIY bivy and where to get materials or list or something?
Get the materials from thru-hiker.com. The top is Momentum .90, the mesh is noseeum mesh, and the bottom is silnylon. You'll need a zipper and some sliders. Make a pattern from some big pieces of paper using your sleeping bag to figure the dimensions. I got three yards of silnylon, two yards of M-90, and 1 yard of noseeum, and had plenty.
Practice on a couple of stuff sacks first. Or do what I did and get an experienced and highly skilled seamstress to make it for you. (No, my wife is not for rent...:) )
bigcranky
03-11-2010, 22:47
If you like a bivy similar to what Big Cranky showed, look at this:
http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=61
I'm really glad to see SMD is making the Meteor. I'll add that link when people ask about my bivy.
I actually came across that link not long after I posted my last post. Looks complicated, to me anyway. Very nice looking bivy though! Thanks for sharing.
If you are going to carry BOTH a bug bivy AND a tarp--why not just carry a small. lightweight tent (with bug netting) from someplace like TarpTent?
Snowleopard
03-13-2010, 22:52
Get the materials from thru-hiker.com. The top is Momentum .90, the mesh is noseeum mesh, and the bottom is silnylon. You'll need a zipper and some sliders. Make a pattern from some big pieces of paper using your sleeping bag to figure the dimensions. I got three yards of silnylon, two yards of M-90, and 1 yard of noseeum, and had plenty.
Practice on a couple of stuff sacks first. Or do what I did and get an experienced and highly skilled seamstress to make it for you. (No, my wife is not for rent...:) )
Big Cranky's MYOG is really the way to go. You probably know somebody who can sew or do it yourself. It's not very hard once you have the sewing machine set up.
Another design that's just netting is this at campmor:
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___86660
It's not rain protection but just bug protection.
Here's a picture of my poncho-tarp set up in my back yard a few years ago. The poncho has the advantage of having a hood you can tie off and use as another guy point to gain some more headroom.
http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1253558973059664855OKnpkD
Here's my background: (maybe it'll help)
While on a trip to Gatlinburg last year (March) I heard about the Mt LeConte Lodge. When I heard about having to hike to a lodge without running water, no electricity and an outhouse, something inside me said, this is it, this is what I want to do.
We stopped at the Sugarlands Visitor Center later that day, and I was intrigued with the 3D Topo of the park set up inside the center. However what caught my eye was the Appalachian Trail that ran across it, from one end to the other.
When we returned home a few days later the thought of hiking still burned in my mind. So I goggled hiking, AT, Mt LeConte, what ever I could think of, and I began the pursuit of something that I have grown to love.....
So I began what any normal newbie did, I began to look for stuff to buy. I tried to research, but in my eagerness I purchased things before completely knowing much about them. What I have ended up in the long run is your average gear. In my opinion now, its good enough, but not the best, or the lightest. (On a side note, we got my wifes gear later on and by then I had alot more understanding, so here bag and pack were better quality (IMO), and lighter ~ GG Nimbus Meridian Ki and a SD down fill bag. And just for note, my big 3 was/is Kelty Red Cloud 5600, Kelty Grand Mesa 2 tent and TNF Aleutian bag.)
My wife and I embarked on our first real hike (by this I mean more than just an overnight trip ~ it was a 4.5 day 40 mile trip from Amicalola to Neels Gap) in September of 09. I was so excited to be on the AT, it was simply awesome, words cannot describe. I knew immediately that this is where I wanted to be, and this is what I wanted to be doing.
Since then I have been in gear lala land. Everything looks awesome, and I feel like I need it all. (Ya know the feeling....) However due to a minimized amount of money I have not been able to splurge on such things, which again IMO has turned out to be a good thing. I have been doing some reading and searching and trying to lighten my load, but with things that were adequate and needed, but at the same time is what works for me. However money is still an issue so I am having to take it slow (as most are probably hearing what I'm saying.)
The tarp was kind of a splurge buy, and was not looked into. I had read a thread about tarps and was immediately sold on the MacCat tarp without understanding why. I ended up changing the tarp from the MacCat micro, to the standard, to the flat cut 8X10 tarp. Honestly I'm still not sure it's what I want or need but it is done and ordered. After doing more reading on the tarps, I believe that I will be able to make this tarp work out pretty good after all. Which is also why I am asking questions here in specific because I am planning on using it on the AT.
I am still trying to find what works for me, and I have the feeling that I will always be doing so....However, for the last year now I have been confused with all the different shelters, as well as types of shelters. (Same with bags and packs.) I honestly feel like things are starting to kind of make a little sense inside my head and I am starting to get a real idea of what I want out of all the stuff out there trying to be sold to me.
I had been looking at Tarptents for a while and have been wanting one, but you know money and honestly I was to excited and anxious and just had to have it (again, the tarp, but the tarp sounded reasonable as well because of it's price.) I have been looking at the solo shelter but really more so the Rainshadow 2 because of it's size so I could fit my wife and son with me as well.
Anyway long story, I came across McBrides gear list the other night, and it was different from others gear list. Alot of the things on there were the things that I had in my mind. While I am not going to run out and buy McBrides gear list, I am keeping it close and modifying it to me. However the Contrail is what I will be buying, just for the record.
So, anyway, for now I am going to try out the tarp, when it gets here. And since I have paid for it and will have it I want to make it work for me. I really do appreciate all the responses that everyone has give. My questions have been answered, in more ways than one. Now all that is left to do is for me to get the tarp and get out there and apply the answers that have been given.
So, while this has probably made things clear as mud, I hope it's helped.
Thanks
ex-hunter
03-16-2010, 12:15
I have the OES 8 x 10 and love it!
I usually use the A frame setup ... use a short cord looped throught the D rings and prussic knots to attach the tarp to a ridge line, that way you can move the peak if the wind shifts or you wish to lower one end.
Set up with a long side on a very windy day:
Set up low during a storm (I think this would keep the 'crawlies' out):
Jim Adams
03-17-2010, 08:32
The key to bomb proof tarping is site selection and practice. Never had a snake problem in 20+ years of tarping and I HATE SNAKES...they're just not an issue. Been in 2 hurricanes tarping and stayed dry.
geek
envirodiver
03-17-2010, 10:25
Stick I have an REI Minimalist bivy and rarely use it. Bigcranky is correct about the condensation inside. I have awakend damp in it, and don't think it was because of an overnight accident. Plus if you have a good tarp set-up the waterproof bivy is overkill.
I like the bug bivy with all netting. I've never used one, but it looks like all you would need. But, when I tarp I rarely use anything else.
I normally set-up using the flying diamond or the lean to. Flying diamond is better in foul weather and I have no desire to wake-up to rain in the middle of the night, get out of my warm bag, re-work my set-up, get wet, get back in my bag (wet). I'd rather wake-up to the rain, think "that sound nice, and go back to sleep.
Someone said that siting is very important and they are dead on right. Maek sure you don't set up in a low spot or where water will funnel to you.
I did that stretch with just a homemade 9' x 9' tarp & did just fine. In 540 miles on the AT I think I have carried a tent less than 60 miles. On that section, I think I stayed in 1 shelter, "Just because".
Now I'm using a tarp again, with the tent 100% retired, I just don't sleep on the ground under the tarp.
Graywolf
03-17-2010, 21:06
Havnt tarped yet..Just a tarp/tent which I love...Light.. When looking at the price/weight ratio of both, the tarp/tent is it for me..
OTOH, I have been considering giving tarping a try, (without a bivy). I thought about this on my section hike in August of '09. I am from Texas where summer heat is a killer and mosquitos/ants are the real danger..On the hike in August when temps never exceeded 85* and ABSOLUTELY NO BUGS...the tarp came to mind..That was an absolute hike..Still contemplaing on the tarp for the next trip..
Graywolf
My tarp went in the mail today. Maybe I'll have it for the weekend to play with. I think that I am going to skip out on the bivy and / or bug net, and this is why:
I am also buying a TT Moment, hopefully in about a month. I have been interested in these a while and I think it's time to get one. This way to, if the tarp don't work out I can grab the TT and be set.
At 28.5 oz, I could carry both this and the tarp and still be lighter than a lot of tents (total of 44.5 oz), but I would have way more options.
I was considering using my one person bivy minus the rain fly to put under my tarp thereby eliminating a ground cloth and giving me a bug net. Anyone see problems with this set up?