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Fronteirman
10-04-2004, 13:50
I don't know how to post this without being inflamitory, but was wondering why the contract to canoe-ferry across the Kennebec at Caratunk wasn't opened to competitive bidding? My understanding is it pays 15K for part-time work, not a king's ransom, but an enviable wage nonetheless. I also heard that Mr. Longley squealed on Caratunk House for not being up to the fire code and they were shut-down. Now, I may have to run for cover...

Lone Wolf
10-04-2004, 14:01
Damn good ?? Enquiring minds wish to know. :-?

Rain Man
10-04-2004, 18:15
From my big dictionary:
"Sinecure - an office or position requiring little or no work, especially one yielding profitable returns: The position of poet laureate is now a sinecure."

I certainly don't know the details of the Kennebec ferry contract, but I will dispute that it is like being a poet laureate. When I was there for the WhiteBlaze gathering, Steve was scrupulous about being at the river (while we all were "back at the ranch" having fun). I think his schedule is 4 hours in the morning and four in the afternoon, though I may be wrong on the specifics.

Anyway, that's duty and work, just as much as some sailor standing watch on the bridge of a ship, constantly watching for someone on the horizon. Maybe they hold sinecure positions?

Like I said... am not privy to any of the issues you raised, but did not observe the "little or no work" requirement at all.

Rain Man

.

WalkinHome
10-04-2004, 18:19
It is put out to bid.

Jack Tarlin
10-04-2004, 18:57
Frontierman:

1. It is indeed put out to bid. Because of the awkward hours, risk and
liability issues, and low pay, there have not been a lot of folks interested
in the position. And if you knew more about what the job entailed, I
doubt you'd be interested either.

2. I don't know where you got your figures from, but fact is, Steve is paid
PER HEAD, meaning there are some days when he can make a few bucks.
There are other days when he's out at the ferry crossing for four hours
and doesn't make a blessed cent. Like zip, nada, nothing. When was the
last time YOU showed up early for work, clocked in, stayed for four hours,
and did it for NOTHING? Right. I didn't think so.

3. Steve's out there during hiking season in ALL kinds of weather. I've seen
him working the crossing during hurricane season; I've seen him working
the crossing when the river was flooded, and on days when Maine saw
six inches of rain. In all his years on the river, you could count the shifts
he's missed on one hand; you could probably do this if you were missing a
couple of fingers. If you think Steve's job is cushy or easy, you might try
it yourself, and if you think his job, hours, or working conditions are easy
and enviable, you're way off the mark. Oh, he's also "on call" and
frequently is called after hours to take someone across the river. He's
ALWAYS available to help folks out, mainly because he's convinced that
fording the river here is extremely ill-advised. If you think it's fun to
get pulled outta bed in October in Maine, in order to row someone across
a rain-swollen river in drizzly weather.....well, if you think this is fun, then
you should really consider bidding on the ferry concession yourself. But
something tells me you'd end up really unhappy if you won it.

4. Lastly, your comments regarding the Caratunk House are illi-nformed.
Actually, they're just plain ignorant and wrong. The Caratunk House did
indeed accumulate all sorts of code violations, including fire code vio-
lations, as well as restaurant/health code violations, such as serving
meals to non-guests, charging for meals without being properly licensed
to do so; advertising these services in restricted areas (like on the Trail
itself, etc). They were repeatedly warned about these violations, and
ignored them. And it wasn't Steve that ratted them out; it was the
propietors of ANOTHER Caratunk food service business (a legal, lawful,
legitimate one) that actually closed its doors because the Caratunk house
was doing so well with its burgers, shakes, and other sales, many of
which were achieved unlawfully. Blaming Steve for the Caratunk House's
problems with inspectors and state officials is simply uncalled for; in fact,
he was perfectly aware of these violations for months without getting
personally involved. If you're going to make accusations this ugly, you
should REALLY get your facts straight first. The Caratunk House got in
trouble with officials because, despite warnings, it insisted on repeatedly
breaking the law. Period.

5. You start your post by saying you don't mean to be inflammatory. You
conclude it by announcing you fear that you may have to "run for cover."
If you insist on posting INTENTIONALLY inflammatory material here, and
if you insist on posting things that are ill-informed, inaccurate, or simply
false, well yeah, you're gonna get called on it. I should further point out
that if you're going to make harsh, personal attacks on individuals here
on Whiteblaze or elsewhere on the Internet, it'd behoove you to put your
real name on your posts. Inaccurate and intentionally hurtful posts,
especially unsigned ones, reflect much more poorly on the guy who
sends them than on the guy who receives them. And it's pretty easy
to "run for cover" when you slag someone on the Internet without
the gumption to put your name on your posts.

6. I invite you to investigate these facts further, and then get back to us.
I look forward to you re-tracting your above post, and issuing a public
apology to Steve Longley, who has done nothing to merit your scorn,
dis-respect and villification.

But I'm not exactly holding my breath waiting for you to do so.

Lone Wolf
10-04-2004, 19:11
Once again Jack is overemotional. Fronteirman stated he HEARD these things about Steve. Geesh. :rolleyes:

Youngblood
10-04-2004, 19:18
Yeah, Jack seems to get that way about his friends. Calm down Jack, I don't think anyone took Fronteirman's comments serious.

Youngblood

Jack Tarlin
10-04-2004, 19:25
Sorry you're so sensitive, Wolf.

But in saying "my understanding is" or "I also heard" , then Fronteirman is repeating innuendo, gossip, and unsubstantiated garbage. It merits a response. And it's also clear from the tone of the post that his sole purpose was to present Steve in a bad light, and to malign him. For Wolf to excuse his comments because this guy only repeating what he "heard" is a cop-out. Whether he actually heard this stuff somewhere, or simply made it up is irrelevant. He's trying to spread rumors and trash talk and he has NONE of his facts straight. Who cares that he's only repeating what he "heard." It's still bull****.

There's nothing "overemotional" about defending the good name and good reputation of somone being anonymously and unjustly slandered. It's merely the decent and correct thing to do. It's regrettable that Wolf doesn't seem to agree.

Lone Wolf
10-04-2004, 19:31
Me sensitive? Shiiiit! You got the wrong boy. :cool: Let Steve respond. He posts on Whiteblaze. I bet he chuckles at this. Lighten up son. :D

Jack Tarlin
10-04-2004, 19:38
Actually, Youngblood, you're dead wrong. I've heard this "Caratunk House" stuff from several sources, and I've no doubt where it originated. The sole and entire intention of the people who've been spreading this nonsense is to damage Steve's name and reputation. It is nothing but malice and spite, and unfortunately, if a Trail story is told often enough, there ARE some folks who will believe it, in fact I've already met some who do.

And as for apologising or regretting my speaking up for friends, or people I respect, well I'm simply not about to do that. Not now, not ever.

Youngblood says "Jack seems to get that way about his friends."

Yup. Damned right. And no regrets about it either. If this comment of Youngblood's is supposed to be criticism, I'll gladly acknowledge it. There is an old legal maxim that comes to mind: "Qui tacet consentire." Which means "Silence gives consent." If you don't speak up when you see or hear something you know to be false or wrong, then you are, in effect, agreeing with it.

Not my style.

smokymtnsteve
10-04-2004, 19:48
There is an old legal maxim that comes to mind: "Qui tacet consentire." Which means "Silence gives consent." If you don't speak up when you see or hear something you know to be false or wrong, then you are, in effect, agreeing with it.

Not my style.

I totally agree..SPEAK UP!


http://www.norml.org/

Flash Hand
10-04-2004, 20:04
I hate to be part in this ping pong argument or some disagreement but indeed, I learn a lot from Jack about the efffort and job as a ferryman. Sometimes, I had thought of wanting to take over that job because it is easy and fun, but not when I read Jack's comments above, it sure make me realize about this twice before taking this job. Now, I know who to thank for and to give a handshake during my thru hike next year, and I will make sure Steve will get one from me. IMO, Jack's input very important point out here, because sometimes people think they know everything but was indeed wrong. I applaud for this thread, not because of how Steve was labelled, but it was because how I learned the effort and courage Steve have given for us. Its blessing to have this kind of forums for us to learn.

Flash Hand :jump

Youngblood
10-04-2004, 20:05
Jack, let me try to explain.

First, I didn't take Fronteirman's comment serious. People that say I don't want to say "yada yada yada", followed by a "but, yada yada yada" are not taken particularly seriously by me. Those phrases, if you think about it, are suspect without even giving them serious consideration. In this case, do you really think he was not trying to be inflamatory... maybe not, but if he wasn't he should have written it differently.

Second, everyone gets upset when friends are unfairly criticised, some people don't get upset when friends are fairly criticised and then there are those that get upset when friends are criticised regardless of whether the criticism is fair or unfair. My impression based on my time on Whiteblaze is that you get upset when a friend is criticised. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry, but that is my impression.

Youngblood

ferryman
10-04-2004, 21:12
Dear Frontiersman, Perhaps you may have been one of the 14,181 hikers that I ferried across the river from 1987 thru 2002. Perhaps you may have been one of the 1,200 hikers that I have provided a safe crossing in 2004, whatever the case, please be assured that any hiker who intends to reach Katahdin this year will be guaranteed my services well beyond the October 11 contract deadline to cross the Kennebec safely and efficiently to reach their final destination. I have a contract through 2006 because I earned and deserved the opportunity to be the Kennebec Ferryman. This is no walk in the park and I take my responsibility very seriously. I never arrive late and I never leave early. Whether it be Bill Irwin in November, you, Mr. Frontiersman in December, or Mr Clean in January, I will be ready and able to assist you getting across the Kennebec River on time, on schedule without mishaps or delays in winter, summer, spring or fall. I have worked everyday since May 7 of this year to facilitate the integrity of the Kennebec River Ferry Service. So far this October, 25 hikers have taken advantage of the "free" ferry service and while the ferry service is my top priority, I also offer lodging, resupply and shuttles services to all hikers who venture into the north woods of Maine. I still have one week of contracted ferry service and my attention is focused on safely crossing all hikers across the Kennebec River. Perhaps you could offer the services I provide and etch out a living here in The Forks/Caratunk, Maine, but I sincerely doubt it! You would be better served to do otherwise, but please let me do what I do best...the Kennebec Ferryman

Youngblood
10-04-2004, 21:32
Steve,

I am one of the 14,181 hikers that you safely ferried across the river between 1987 and 2002 (2000 to be more precise). It was one of the highlights of my thru-hike. I apprecated it then and I apprecate it now. I respect what you do and how you do it. I suspect that goes for practically all hikers that have used your service.

Thank you,
Youngblood

Flash Hand
10-05-2004, 00:51
Just out of curiousity, if we arrive to the Kennebec River, and if you are not in the area... wondering how can we give out the signal to let you know we are here awaitin for a ferry crossing? As a deaf hiker, I found its tough to try to make a phone call for the shuttle at Fontana Dam, and no one was around to make a phone call for me. I then have to force myself to walk up the road to get to Fontana Village Inn but lucky, I was picked up by hitchhiking about a half mile. I hope there is not a phone or walk talkie by the Kennebec River....Other than that, its great to know a someone there who always give hikers the safe crossing.

Flash Hand :jump

attroll
10-05-2004, 01:35
Steve does a very good job at providing this service for the Appalachian Trail. I do have to disagree with one thing Jack said about how Steve gets paid. He does not get paid PER HEAD. He put a bid in for the service and got what he asked for. He does not get paid by the ammount of people that cross. If 1 million people cross the river or just 10 he gets paid the same ammount.

I am not going to get involved in the Caratunk House part of this. I have heard several diffent stories on this. I have heard Steve side and I have talk to Paul that owns the Caratunk House and heard his side. But as of right now the Caratunk House is up for sale. I went and looked at it but it is to pricey in my opinion. I would love to run the Hostel there in Caratunk. But just can not cough up $97,000 if I remember right. That is way to steep in my opinion.

Fronteirman
10-05-2004, 13:22
Yes Jack, I agree the tone of my post was wrong--I was ignorant of what the ferrying contract involved. I was passing along what I had heard and saw no informative posts regarding the issues.

Jack Tarlin
10-05-2004, 14:25
Frontierman---

Thank you for your last post, and I'm sorry if my post was harsher than it needed to be. Youngblood is correct....I do get a bit riled when people I like and respect are getting treated unfairly. In any case, no hard feelings. It's just that Steve Longley is one of the most selfless, dedicated people I know, and it's only recently, after YEARS of helping hikers, that folks are starting to appreciate it.

Troll---

In regards to you statement about having heard both sides of the argument re. The Caratunk House, your comment was regrettable; you simply haven't talked to enough people. If you want the names of the Inspectors and officials who were involved, or if you want the names of the other Caratunk businesspeople whose livelihood was affected because of the Caratunk House's unlicensed and improper actions, well I can probably supply it. Questions to Troll: Did you ask the folks at the hostel if the fire inspectors were happy with their lodging operations? Did you ask them if they sold food and drinks to non-guests, both before and AFTER they were expressly told not to do so? Did you ask them if they were advertising these services on the very Trail itself?

You mentioned, Troll, that you didn't want to get involved with this issue, and that you've "heard several stories." With all due respect, Troll, I submit that you HAVE got involved with your post, and that whatever stories you may have heard, you haven't heard the whole story. Whatever you may have "heard" in the course of your incomplete inquiries, the fact is that there were all sorts of reasons the Caratunk House is closed, but Steve Longley is not at fault here.

bearbait2k4
10-05-2004, 15:06
Before lambasting others for spreading rumors, I think we should all step back and realize that, at some point, we have probably done the same - in the innocence of trying to find out the true story.

When we realize this, it will probably be easier to simply correct the mis-heard information, rather than adding on a healthy portion of insults.

That's just my opinion, though.

Jack Tarlin
10-05-2004, 15:24
Bearbait:

As I've already stated, I acknowledge that the tone of my original post was pretty sharp. I've expressed my regret for this, and also my reasons for speaking so sharply in the first place.

You're right. All of us have probably done the same, tho I disagree with you that all the folks that have been passing around this particular story are doing it innocently. I am quite sure that there are some who are spreading this around for reasons that are anything but innocent, and that is why this matter has to be dealt with in no uncertain terms.

The fact that someone is "innocently" passing around hurtful, damaging, and untrue stories doesn't mean we should ignore this when we see it. These sorts of stories can do great harm, regardless of the intent of the person telling the story.

You concluded that it's best to simply correct the "mis-heard" or untrue information. I couldn't agree more. And that's exactly what I did.

Enough said.

attroll
10-06-2004, 00:03
Wow, Wow, I did not say I was taking sides with Steve or the Caratunk House. I just said I have heard both sides of stories or should say both thier views. I did not want to get flamed here. I have talk to the other buisnesses in the area. I simply wanted to say that I have heard from several people in the area. I am not going to take sides and voice what I know. But people need to realize that there is always two sides of the story. I know the truth of what has been going on there. I did my research on it. Only because I was thinking about buying the Caratunk House. I guess I should have just kept my mouth shut.

Blue Jay
10-06-2004, 07:55
I guess I should have just kept my mouth shut.

That's it you're banned. We will have no crap like this on any internet forum. By the way, I heard that anyone who uses hiking poles is a wennie.

MOWGLI
10-06-2004, 08:06
That's it you're banned. We will have no crap like this on any internet forum. By the way, I heard that anyone who uses hiking poles is a wennie.


Wennie. That would be a great trail name! Better yet, Wennie the Weanie.

No more Blue Jay for you. I have declared it so over a boiling pot of ramen. Forever more, you are Wennie the Weanie! There will be no arguing, or you are banished. :D

Blue Jay
10-06-2004, 08:29
There will be no arguing, or you are banished. :D

OK, from now on I'll be Banished. The boiling pot of Ramen, is that like a Witch thing from your area? I like it.

skeeterfeeder
10-07-2004, 06:53
Jack, I don't know you, but the way you defend your friends, I'll be your friend any time.

Hawk
10-07-2004, 15:32
We are still left with the unfortunate reality of Caratunk House's closing. There is no mention in the appropriate category in WHITEBLAZE of what happened. It is a serious matter for someone to treacherously turn in a business which is serving the hiking community. How many of the tens of thousands of laws on the books have the business or person in question broken? How much of the green cash made by proprietors on the trail actually gets reported? What do you suppose would be the penalty if an overzealous tax man wanted to sting one of the AT businesses? So you see the tit for tat envy-based penalty system increases fear and unhappiness for all concerned. Though I did not stay at Caratunk House, the man was a definite gentlemen, his food was healthy and reasonable, better than most.

Frosty
10-07-2004, 16:21
There is an old legal maxim that comes to mind: "Qui tacet consentire." Which means "Silence gives consent." If you don't speak up when you see or hear something you know to be false or wrong, then you are, in effect, agreeing with it.Of course, being old and Latin doesn't necessarily make it true. I believe there also a Latin adage about arguing with fools, and something that roughtly translates to, "Louder, therefore more correct." We've all encountered this last one in our lives, the philospohy of those who up the hysteria level with each interchange, hoping to shout down all opposition.

Besides, if you look at enough maxims, you find they eventaully contradict themselves:

He who hesitates is lost
He who acts in haste repents in waste.

Frosty

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." -- Thomas Paine

Nightwalker
10-07-2004, 16:42
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." -- Thomas PaineWake up and take your sleeping pill?

:)

Jack Tarlin
10-07-2004, 19:00
Hawk--

So the guy was a gentlelman, was nice to hikers to hikers, and served good food.

So what. This is irrelevant.

They were warned flatly about various problems with their operation, some of which involved public health and safety issues. These problems were ignored. This was ENTIRELY the decision of the hostel management, and to shift responsibility here is absurd. The problems and violations continued even after a formal warning.....inspectors, law enforcement officers, and others have a problem when they see laws and regulations flouted. They are further angered when their warnings and cautions about such matters are ignored and dis-respected. When they have to come back again with the same complaints, it is to be expected that they're going to take a hard line.

You mention that what we're left to deal with is the that the place is closed, and that the hiking comunity will suffer as a result. What you neglect to mention is that situation was ENTIRELY avoidable if the place had obeyed laws and regulations in the first place, or had made an effort to conform to them once they were aware that there was a problem.

They chose not to do anything about it. The decision to do so, and the subsequent consequences are entirely and completely the responsibility of the folks running the place. Any attempt to shift blame or cause here is a cop-out.

Lone Wolf
10-07-2004, 19:28
Why is it you seem to KNOW everything about the Caratunk House? Did you talk to any of the "officials"? How much time have you spent in Caratunk this year?

Magic City
10-08-2004, 08:37
I was a health inspector for about six years. During that time, in my jurisdiction, most of the complaints filed against food service establishments were made by competing restaurants or stores, and many of these were technical violations having little or nothing to do with the public health. My favorite restaurants were not the ones that scored highest on health inspections.

smokymtnsteve
10-08-2004, 09:38
Why is it you seem to KNOW everything about the Caratunk House? Did you talk to any of the "officials"? How much time have you spent in Caratunk this year?

sounds kinda like Uncle johhny don't it :D

Rain Man
10-08-2004, 09:50
... technical violations hav[e] little or nothing to do with the public health.....

For examples?

.

Chief Choctaw
10-19-2004, 23:35
:-? As we ponder the inappropriate actions of some people trying to make a name for themselves and cause problems without considering the implications of their actions, I am reminded of something that was said by:

Bobby Kennedy –1961

“Most of our fellow citizens do their best – and do it the modest, unspectacular, decent, natural way, which is the highest form of public service. But every day in a shameful variety of ways, the selfish actions of the small minority sully the honor of our nation.

You drive on Jack. Hope to see you on the trail.

Jack Tarlin
10-20-2004, 01:39
I've been away hiking for awhile.

Am surprised to see this thread still going, thought it was talked out.

I don't see any reason to repeat anything I've said earlier, but in case there's no doubt:

1. The Caratunk House' problems were their OWN problems. As I stated.

2. Steve Longley had nothing to do with it.

3. I haven't seen anyone with anything to say contrary to this. If you have anything substantive to say, either say it, or put your real name on it. Lone Wolf....when was the last time YOU were in Caratunk or talked to anyone there? Please tell us. I'm commenting about this cuz I've been in Caratunk nine times in nine years, bucko. Haven't seen YOU up in thse parts recently!!.... I was there a few weeks ago, and will be back soon. How about you? Tell you what, Wolf....I won't talk about town meetings in Damascus and you don't talk about what's going on in Maine, OK? I stay outta things I know absolutely nothing about....you should try it sometime. And SM Steve....you haven't been in Maine since Christ was a Carpenter....
howz about limiting your prodigous commentary to stuff you actually know something about???

4. Thought this subject was dead. Here's a novel idea: I was in Maine recently and discussed this with the folks involved. Anyone ELSE has something to say, howz about they mention when THEY were last in Maine and who THEY spoke with?

Enough said.

Jack Lincoln
10-20-2004, 02:04
So Jacko..

Who did you speak with? It seems that, in between bashing Doyle, you are always making excuses for your friends.

BTW Jack. Your obsession with Warren Doyle seems unhealthy to me!

Jack Tarlin
10-20-2004, 02:13
No, Mr. Lincoln.

I don't haveta make excuses for my friends. Instead, I speak up for my friends. You'd understand this.

If you had any.

But glad to see you're still up to par, i.e. half your posts are still about me. Or maybe more, I kinda lost track.

Now THAT's unhealthy, Mr. Lincoln. It's late, now. Go back under your rock.

Desert Lobster
10-20-2004, 11:52
Jack,

The woods must get you rejuvenated!

jersey joe
10-20-2004, 15:15
This post got me to wondering, are you supposed to Tip the ferryman for his service???
Does anyone inclined to do so?

Jack Tarlin
10-20-2004, 16:38
It's become something of a tradition for me to tip Steve a few Camels (he's a very light smoker), tho in truth, I think the best thanks you could give him would be a card or letter when your trip is done. Steve has met and helped most of the folks who've hiked the entire Trail and just like so many other folks you'll meet on your trip, he loves to hear back from people he's met on the river or in Caratunk.

You can reach him here:

Steve Longley
Rivers and Trails
Box 90
Rt. 201
The Forks, ME 04985

Alligator
10-20-2004, 16:40
This post got me to wondering, are you supposed to Tip the ferryman for his service???
Does anyone inclined to do so?One silver coin and only after he gets you to the other side...

Peaks
10-20-2004, 17:41
This post got me to wondering, are you supposed to Tip the ferryman for his service???
Does anyone inclined to do so?

Could send a donation to MATC. (I'd like to see MATC put up a donation box on the shoreline.)

Blue Jay
10-21-2004, 13:18
One silver coin and only after he gets you to the other side...

That's on the Styx, which is right after the big K, and the ferryman is much uglier.

Jack Tarlin
10-21-2004, 13:58
Actually, Blue Jay, the ferryman of the underworld, Charon, plied his trade on the river Acheron, not the Styx.

One of these days you'll get something right.

Alligator
10-21-2004, 14:08
An obolus to you Jack. I always thought it was the Styx too and two coins, but I looked it up before posting :D .

Blue Jay
10-21-2004, 14:19
Actually, Blue Jay, the ferryman of the underworld, Charon, plied his trade on the river Acheron, not the Styx.

One of these days you'll get something right.

Unlike you, I've never been there, but you are correct I should not talk about trails I have not hiked.

The Old Fhart
10-21-2004, 14:30
Hate to see people arguing about non-existent places and people. I personally thought the ferryman was Mickey Mouse, but I could be wrong. Go to: http://www.theriverstyx.net/charon.html to get this version of the story. "Charon was son of Erebus and Nyx (Night). It was his duty to ferry over the Styx (or Acheron) those souls of the deceased who had duly received the rites of burial, in payment for which service he received an obol, which was placed in the mouth of the corpse. It was only exceptionally that he carried living passengers".
Erebus is also an active volcano in Antarctica.

Blue Jay
10-21-2004, 14:36
Pigs must be flying. The Red Soxs win and Old Fhart defends me. The Styx may have frozen over and we can skate across.

Jack Tarlin
10-21-2004, 14:41
Ah, Fhart, it's good to see you here, but your source is in error. The Styx and the Acheron were separate rivers (there were actually five in Hades, the others being Cocytus, Lethe, and Phlegethon).

Charon is universally described in classical mythology as working the Acheron, not the Styx.

But in a few years, you can let us know this for sure, if I don't beat you to it.

The Old Fhart
10-21-2004, 15:02
Blue Jay-"Pigs must be flying. The Red Soxs win and Old Fhart defends me. The Styx may have frozen over and we can skate across." :) :)
Just in the interest of accuracy. There are countless versions of these stories and we have seen a couple here. (I personally like Dante's description of hell). To claim either is right or wrong is kinda silly. I'm not sure if the current exchange rate between payment with an obol (obolus) and foreign currency is posted to make it easier on the ferryman's passengers. Also Erebus is mentioned as the gateway to Hades as well as a person (god) and that is why the volcano in Antarctica is so named. Because of my background working in an isolated extreme cold weather environment (Mt. Washington in winter), I have thought of applying for work at the South Pole which would take me by Erebus. So when people tell me to go to Hades, I take it as a compliment!