Wet, windy, cool conditions

[HiKen2011]

Last year on April 2nd I was hiking out of hawk mtn shelter in 40 degree temps, a strong north wind and drizzle. I was wearing a long sleeve polypro lightweight shirt, a columbia titanium nylon shirt, and a marmot light weight rain jacket. After 3 plus miles I was soaked and freezing even while walking. Is there a preferred layering system for these kind of conditions as they are typical for north GA this time of year?:-?

Thanks,
Detour

[scottdennis]

Last year on April 2nd I was hiking out of hawk mtn shelter in 40 degree temps, a strong north wind and drizzle. I was wearing a long sleeve polypro lightweight shirt, a columbia titanium nylon shirt, and a marmot light weight rain jacket. After 3 plus miles I was soaked and freezing even while walking. Is there a preferred layering system for these kind of conditions as they are typical for north GA this time of year?:-?

Thanks,
Detour

I'm not familiar with the columbia shirt, but I use fleece for my insulation layers under my rain gear.

Also, what sort of hat did you have on? When exerting yourself you can lose upward of 50% of your heat through your head. It can range from about 7-50% heat loss. My smartwool knit cap under my rain hood keeps my nice and toasty.

It sounds like your heat was escaping or you weren't wicking moisture away if you were hiking and still getting cold. Most of the time I'm shedding layers when I start out, but I'm hot natured.

[butts0989]

ditch the insulated layer. I live in georgia and know EXACTLY what you're talking about. My general set up for those kind of conditions is simply my ExEficio polyester shirt and my golite virga rain jacket. Ya im cold when i first start out but i warm up pretty quick. If its just a light drizzle i wear a golite wisp windshirt, sheds most the water in a light drizzle.

[HiKen2011]

Sorry, not titanium omni dri columbia.

[Egads]

I would be wearing two layers of wool, a driduck jacket, & a lightweight wool hat in these conditions

[HiKen2011]

I should mention when I say I was soaked ir was from sweat. Even though the Marmot is supposed to be very breathable.

Detour

[butts0989]

considering we all know that no waterproof fabric is truly really breathable, i always think its just safe to wear one layer underneath, unless hiking in conditions under 30 degrees.

[Del Q]

I have gone to wearing Merino wool tee shirts exclusively, backpacking light or Icebreaker, prefer the BP light and they are less $$$ as well. This and a rain jacket does the trick for me and keep moving, light fleece when I stop

[scottdennis]

I agree with Butts. It also sounds like you sweat a lot so I would have gone with the light weight base wicking layer and the rain jacket and no other layers. If I start to sweat I'll unzip or slow down or stop or something so I don't break that sweat. Getting wet from sweat is no different than getting wet from rain. It will chill you down too quick!

If you're breaking out in sweat you have to use less layers and lighter weight stuff while hiking. As soon as you stop you can layer up to stay warm.

[HiKen2011]

Thanks, I am a very heavy sweater. I hiked 13 miles last summer (80 degrees) and lost five pounds! I should have unzipped my jacket sooner, before I got saoked with sweat.:eek:

Detour

[Snowleopard]

Some waterproof breathable materials are more breathable than others (event $$$ is the best, some kinds or goretex, frogg toggs driducks are supposed to be pretty breathable). Also, the DWR on the surface of the jacket is supposed to make water bead up. If the water spreads out (wets the fabric surface), the rain water itself can keep the fabric from breathing.

Some jackets have more venting (pitzips, etc.).

Use less clothes.

Slow down to the point where you're not sweating.

[Tinker]

Marmot's Precip jackets are polyurethane coated - same stuff that's on the floors of most heavier weight tents - not breathable worth (whatever is worthless to you).
Plus - wicking wear has to have somewhere to wick the moisture. A waterproof jacket will prevent that.
I've recently tried and reviewed the most breathable (so the backpacking market says) membrane - eVent (in an REI Shuksan jacket). I don't notice any difference between it and Gore-tex (both PTFE products).
Wear an extra layer, wool or fleece. That should help.
I experienced exactly those conditions while hiking the AT in Georgia in 2006 in March (plus a little sleet thrown in). Not unusual at all.

[Doctari]

As others have hinted at: stay cool to stay warm. As you discovered you got wet from sweating, wet = cold, so stay dry as you are exercising by wearing less. Be prepared when you stop to put on other DRY layers, especially if you do inadvertently get wet.
There are times when it is nearly impossible to stay dry, that is when having a easy to set up shelter & dry clothing to get into when you do get too cold is critical.

[The Old Fhart]

ken downey-"After 3 plus miles I was soaked and freezing even while walking."I think you just got a definitive answer to your thread on why you shouldn't go stoveless.:D

[Wise Old Owl]

Scott Dennis got what IMO is the best answer... TOF is also on a diffent wagon trail and don't go stoveless.

I try to avoid those three at all costs....

[garlic08]

A lot depends on your general fitness, what you've been eating, hydration, how much you sweat, the phase of the moon (just kidding), etc.

That is pretty much exactly the same clothing I wore while hiking most of my '08 AT thru, often in very similar conditions (April 4 start), including two winter storms above 6,000'. I left my warm layers in plastic in my pack to be certain of a warm camp when I needed to stop--I never hiked in my warm layers. I did make certain to eat well, often snacking while walking, and stop and get water even when very cold, and not work up a sweat. I won't pretend I was toasty warm all the time, but I was able to continue hiking 10 or 12 hours a day and make a warm dry camp every night. To me, the key in those conditions is physical fitness, good fuel, and good hydration. If you can't meet those conditions, a sleeping bag in a tent is a good place to be that day. And carry a stove, for sure.

I don't know if this is univerally true, but I heard that once a breathable jacket is wet, whether from rain from the outside or sweat from the inside, the membrane stops breathing and you're wearing a plastic bag. Something else to keep in mind.

[Appalachian Tater]

When exerting yourself you can lose upward of 50% of your heat through your head.

That has been scientifically debunked and as hikers discussing hypothermia we need to avoid perpetuating that old tale.

Your head may be more sensitive to cold but you lose the same amount of heat per square inch of skin no matter where it is on your body. The big difference is we often wear clothes on other parts of our body which decreases heat loss. Wearing a hat is still a great idea if you are trying to stay warm and it may have a greater effect on your perception of being warm than covering an equal amount of other skin such as your legs, for instance. That's why you can hike in shorts down into very cold temps where you need a long sleeve shirt and a hat to be comfortable.

On an adult, the head is alloted 9% of the body surface in estimating burns, with a small percentage more for the neck. In a child it is a much higher percentage as their head is proportionately larger so they allot 18% of the body surface.

That said, I also swear by my Smartwool knit hat. There is no easier way for me to remove or put on clothing while moving or stopping to rest and it does have that disproportionate effect on comfort.


I hiked 13 miles last summer (80 degrees) and lost five pounds! I should have unzipped my jacket sooner, before I got soaked with sweat.:eek:

Detour

Note that you can get hypothermic in 80 degree weather, especially if you are wet, dehydrated, and in the wind. Eighty ounces of water is quite a bit to lose quickly. Dehydration contributes to hypothermia.


Bottom line, anytime you start shivering uncontrollably you need to immediately get warm and dry before you get too confused to save yourself. If you see someone else getting hypothermic you need to intervene.

[HiKen2011]

Thanks Garlic,

I read your journal today (2006), you guy's made really good time.

Detour

[Snowleopard]

I don't know if this is univerally true, but I heard that once a breathable jacket is wet, whether from rain from the outside or sweat from the inside, the membrane stops breathing and you're wearing a plastic bag. Something else to keep in mind.
Yes, the pores in the membrane can get blocked by liquid water. Most of the waterproof-breathable fabrics have a membrane that passes water vapor but not liquid water and a water repellent treatment on the outer surface (DWR). If the DWR is good, water beads up on the surface. When water no longer beads up, the DWR needs to be renewed. http://www.rei.com/expertadvice/articles/restoring+repellency+outerwear.html

[Wags]

appalacian tater. the reason we are told to wear hats on our heads to keep our feet and hands warm is b/c the body freaks out when the brain starts to get cold. our body basically says "screw you feet/hands" and focuses on keeping the brain and thorax warm. that is why when your feet feel cold often the solution is to put on a hat or jacket...

the other big heat loss from our head are the holes from outside to internal (nose, mouth, ears, eyes)

[Wags]

that's my belief anyway. it may be wrong

[HiKen2011]

Thanks Wags, great info.

Detour

[The Old Fhart]

Appalachian Tater-"Note that you can get hypothermic in 80 degree weather, especially if you are wet, dehydrated, and in the wind. Eighty ounces of water is quite a bit to lose quickly. Dehydration contributes to hypothermia.

Bottom line, anytime you start shivering uncontrollably you need to immediately get warm and dry before you get too confused to save yourself. If you see someone else getting hypothermic you need to intervene." Appalachian Tater is correct. If you want to know more about hypothermia and how to avoid it, check this WhiteBlaze article (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=96956&postcount=24) on the subject. The author knows what he's talking about.;)

[Mother Nature]

I swear by wool myself. I live in GA and do a lot of walking and working outside year round. I walk in one med weight or two thin layers of wool at 25-30 degrees. It doesn't matter if I walk naked at that temp... I sweat buckets. Have a nice fleece handy when I stop for extended periods.

It helps to vent with a hat as needed. In windy weather I use a gaiter around my neck and Earbags rather than a hat.

I have a complete outfitter store of other fabrics that are supposed to wick etc etc etc. I am just a sweat faucet.

The main thing for me is a dry outfit the minute I get to camp.

[nitewalker]

do not sweat with a rain jacket on. it makes the water on the outside feel as if it came thru to the inside by mixing with your sweat. when u stop hiking the cold will set in fast if this hapens. once u sweat your not gonig to be able to dry that jacket until u take it off in a dry environment. the key is to regulate your body temp so that u do not sweat, sorta like winter hiking. sweat kills.

[mudhead]

That has been scientifically debunked and as hikers discussing hypothermia we need to avoid perpetuating that old tale.



knit hat. There is no easier way for me to remove or put on clothing while moving or stopping to rest and it does have that disproportionate effect on comfort.





Agree. .