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Nuthatch
03-19-2010, 12:02
From here: http://appalachiantrail2010.blogspot.com/

We trudged on from Neels Gap (in the rain) and when we arrived at our destination for the night, the shelter was full and we had no tents. I thought we would have to spend the night sleeping in the mud under the shelter, with all the mice. No way! There was a young man who had arrived at the same time as us and was assembling his 2- person tent. I invited myself to sleep in his tent with him for the night, and he obliged. Based on his reaction, I think it's rare for a woman in these parts to be so bold. I was thankful to have a dry and semi-warm place to rest my head for the night. Temperatures that night and the following two nights went below freezing- it was so cold!

Is she serious?

butts0989
03-19-2010, 12:06
theres a reason that women arent normally this bold, because bad things happen to them when they are. dumb move sista

Toolshed
03-19-2010, 12:25
And this also.....
The longer I am out here, the more apparent it becomes that the thru-hiking community is predominantly composed of men, many of whom neglect to show me respect and aknowledge that I exist. Some have implied that I shouldn't be out here, and that long distance hiking is a man's leisure activity. After three nights of tolerating these fraternity house attitudes, and enduring the skeptical glances, I decided to show the men why I am out here. On Wednesday morning everyone packed up and moved out to hike the ten miles to Dick's Creek Gap (where we had our box of food hidden). I waited until all the men had started hiking, and then I took off like lightning down the trail. Within five miles, I passed every single one of those men, and I left them eating my trail of dust. I was hoping to show them that I am just as physically and mentally capable as they are. I finished the ten miles in record time, so I sat around waiting and watching as all the men I had passed hours ago arrived. When the man who had been sending dirty looks in my direction arrived, he finally asked me "what's your name?" It worked! I put them all in their place and gained their respect as a fellow thru-hiker. Now they were interested in knowing who I am.

mtnkngxt
03-19-2010, 12:28
Entitled Feminists for 500 Alex. :rolleyes::D

Mags
03-19-2010, 12:30
You can really go fast when you don't bring a tent, too! :D

(A group of 3 with no tents..seems, odd?)

Cookerhiker
03-19-2010, 12:34
[QUOTE=Toolshed;990596]And this also.....
...... I was hoping to show them that I am just as ...mentally capable as they are.../QUOTE]

If you choose not to bring a tent or shelter on a long-distance hike, no you are not.

Ender
03-19-2010, 12:35
She should be carrying her own shelter, be it a tarp, tent, hammock, yurt, whatever. Especially if temps are dropping that low at night.

Lone Wolf
03-19-2010, 12:39
stupid b***h comes to mind

DAJA
03-19-2010, 12:40
Was this group not a group of 4? Are they not supposedly shooting a documentry? Why don't they have some form of shelter?

This could be a fun blog to follow...

Nuthatch
03-19-2010, 12:41
I'd love to read the TJs of some of these "frat boys", especially the polite young young man who got bullied into letting this spoilt woman into his tent.

Love how they make fun of Ron Haven's employee's "southern accent" (:confused:) too. Making comments like "Through the thick accent (imagine King of the Hill's Boomhauer)... :confused: :rolleyes: :mad:

d.o.c
03-19-2010, 12:41
i was invited to stay in a lady's tent a few times i didnt carry a tent and the shelter was full i was grateful for it was wet and rainy. but inviteing your self into someone elses tent seems kinda sketch and rude.

10-K
03-19-2010, 12:42
I would not let a woman I didn't know tent with me because it's not beyond the realm of possibility that she could make accusations against _me_.

Do everyone a favor -bring your own shelter.

max patch
03-19-2010, 12:45
What a nut job.

I hope he used a condom.

superman
03-19-2010, 12:45
It happens. I was hiking with TUK and a young woman caught up to us and was going to cowboy camp with us. TUK and I had tents and she didn't. Just as we settled down for the night it started raining. She slept in TUKs tent for the night. The primary conversation the next day as we hiked was whether TUK got credit for sleeping with a woman even though nothing happened. :)

Appalachian Tater
03-19-2010, 12:46
omg.......

Cookerhiker
03-19-2010, 12:46
....Love how they make fun of Ron Haven's employee's "southern accent" (:confused:) too. Making comments like "Through the thick accent (imagine King of the Hill's Boomhauer)... :confused: :rolleyes: :mad:

Wonder where they're from? "Thickness" of local accents aren't limited to the mountain South. Many New Englanders' accents are "thick" in their way also.

McPick
03-19-2010, 12:46
Thru hike attempt?
No tent?
It's cold.
It's wet.
Ah-oh...

Hiking the AT shelter to shelter is often the plan. The chance that shelters may be full is reason enough to carry a tent, or other shelter. (And the mice and the ants and the snoring, etc, etc, etc...)

However, the countless "unknowns" in between each and every shelter along the AT are the reasons you should carry one.

d.o.c
03-19-2010, 12:51
I wish i had a tent I hardley kept enough food in my pack but for the most part i never had a problem with not haven a tent only had to find a tent or a tarp twice i liked cowboyn on nice nights.

white_russian
03-19-2010, 12:56
...it's not beyond the realm of possibility that she could make accusations against _me_.

+


Entitled Feminists for 500 Alex. :rolleyes::D

= not good

GGS2
03-19-2010, 13:16
I'm struck by Ron's offer of "a box of stuff" at Franklin. Sounds like Ron is going over the top to take care of a novice hiker again. I don't see any evidence that she is aware of it, though.

Hey, LW: I know it's "just walking," but maybe there should be a bit of "skill" in how its done? Maybe it's just backpacking?

Marta
03-19-2010, 13:29
Wow! I'm speechless.

The Old Fhart
03-19-2010, 13:30
Cookerhiker-"Wonder where they're from? "Thickness" of local accents aren't limited to the mountain South. Many New Englanders' accents are "thick" in their way also."Some people have told me that.......:D

scope
03-19-2010, 13:33
What a nut job.

I hope he used a condom.

I think you all are being a little hard on her (no pun intended).

Blissful
03-19-2010, 13:40
Was this group not a group of 4? Are they not supposedly shooting a documentry? Why don't they have some form of shelter?



Makes me wonder how else they are unprepared....

Should have camped in the mud with the mice. Then you'll learn real quick.

max patch
03-19-2010, 13:43
Tiger Woods just threw away his clubs and bought a tent.

hellomolly
03-19-2010, 13:43
Chicks like this embarass me. She is completely unprepared and basically admits to hiking so she can "prove herself" to the men who apparently treat her as an inferior. Well, yeah... she is inferior - she's unprepared! She's my age, too... way to give the rest of us (women, feminists, whatever) a bad name.

I was astonished at the section of the journal in which she basically said she sprinted past a bunch of hikers who had apparently given her dirty looks (maybe because she was rude an unprepared? just a guess) just to "prove herself" to them and gain their respect. She doesn't deserve anyone's respect, based on her post.

Also, I cannot imagine she thought that look on that guy's face when she asked him to sleep in his tent was him being surprised by her "bold" ness. More like disgusted by her rude-ness.

Wonder if she's finding her hike to be "living like the Native Americans did," like she wanted... :rolleyes:

Lone Wolf
03-19-2010, 13:49
her and her crew ain't gonna make it

Nuthatch
03-19-2010, 13:51
The Blog post in its entirety:


After day one on the trail my ankle gave me intolerable pain with every step. How could this be happening??? I spent $200 on a pair of hiking boots and they did nothing but injure me! When we finally rolled up to Neels Gap, 30.7 miles into the trail, we found a haven equipped with a hiker's hostel and a gear store. I walked into the gear store, sat down in the shoe department and said "can you help me fix my ankle?" They set me up with a new pair of shoes that alleviated the pain entirely, and I shipped my muddy boots home. I felt like I was given a new pair of feet. We stayed the night in Neels Gap where I got to know all the staff, they filled my head with tips and advice for how to load my pack and keep my body weight up. Everyone there was friendly especially Baltimore Jack, and their hospitality/ encouragement gave me a huge boost of confidence.

We trudged on from Neels Gap (in the rain) and when we arrived at our destination for the night, the shelter was full and we had no tents. I thought we would have to spend the night sleeping in the mud under the shelter, with all the mice. No way! There was a young man who had arrived at the same time as us and was assembling his 2- person tent. I invited myself to sleep in his tent with him for the night, and he obliged. Based on his reaction, I think it's rare for a woman in these parts to be so bold. I was thankful to have a dry and semi-warm place to rest my head for the night. Temperatures that night and the following two nights went below freezing- it was so cold!

The longer I am out here, the more apparent it becomes that the thru-hiking community is predominantly composed of men, many of whom neglect to show me respect and aknowledge that I exist. Some have implied that I shouldn't be out here, and that long distance hiking is a man's leisure activity. After three nights of tolerating these fraternity house attitudes, and enduring the skeptical glances, I decided to show the men why I am out here. On Wednesday morning everyone packed up and moved out to hike the ten miles to Dick's Creek Gap (where we had our box of food hidden). I waited until all the men had started hiking, and then I took off like lightning down the trail. Within five miles, I passed every single one of those men, and I left them eating my trail of dust. I was hoping to show them that I am just as physically and mentally capable as they are. I finished the ten miles in record time, so I sat around waiting and watching as all the men I had passed hours ago arrived. When the man who had been sending dirty looks in my direction arrived, he finally asked me "what's your name?" It worked! I put them all in their place and gained their respect as a fellow thru-hiker. Now they were interested in knowing who I am.

When the rest of our "Traveling Circus" arrived, Kate and I wandered into the woods to find our resupply box full of food. Much to my surprise, the box was still there- the bears somehow overlooked our stash and we lucked out! I took the box under my arm, and headed to the road crossing at Dick's Creek Gap, raised my thumb up in the air and we hitched a ride into town.

hellomolly
03-19-2010, 13:56
Ugh can't stop being annoyed by her post... what the hell does she mean by "women in these parts?" What, the AT? Georgia? What? Does she think that since she's from "The City" she has a pass to be a rude brat? The REAL bold women in "those parts" are the ones who bring the proper gear, hike without trying to "prove themselves" to others on the trail and, uh, don't force their way into another person's tent because they're unprepared!

the gall...

skinewmexico
03-19-2010, 14:00
Entitled Feminists for 500 Alex. :rolleyes::D

That was followed by "soda out the nose for 1000, Alex".

Cookerhiker
03-19-2010, 14:00
Wonder where they're from? "Thickness" of local accents aren't limited to the mountain South. Many New Englanders' accents are "thick" in their way also.


Some people have told me that.......:D

No, not me Faahht - I would never say such a thing!:D

DAJA
03-19-2010, 14:00
Tiger Woods just threw away his clubs and bought a tent.


Best post of the day!!! A+

Lone Wolf
03-19-2010, 14:02
at least tiger went for hot chicks

Nuthatch
03-19-2010, 14:33
We trudged on from Neels Gap (in the rain) and when we arrived at our destination for the night, the shelter was full... I invited myself to sleep in his tent...After three nights of tolerating these fraternity house attitudes...I decided to show the men why I am out here. On Wednesday morning everyone packed up and moved out to hike the ten miles to Dick's Creek Gap[/COLOR][/B]
This is kinda confusing. Which night and which shelter was it that she barged her way into the young man's tent? It's 37 miles from Neels to Dicks, with five shelters in between. Did this happen the first night out of Neels as she seems to suggest, or the last night before Dick's Creek?

10-K
03-19-2010, 14:34
at least tiger went for hot chicks

You know what happened to the last guy who asked if there were any hot chicks on the trail dontcha?

Jonnycat
03-19-2010, 14:50
An idiot hiking on a trail? Wotta shocker!

Monkeyboy
03-19-2010, 14:56
Gee...claims she gets no respect when she :

a.) Admitted doesn't train.
b.) Brings no tent.
c.) Relies on others to provide for her shortcomings.
d.) Sleeps with strangers because she is ill prepared.
e.) Thinks that she is a better backpacker because she can walk fast.

Tuckahoe
03-19-2010, 15:03
"Educated" liberal Yankees in their 20s with chips on their shoulders -- the most annoying sort of individual. They think they know more than everyone, especially anyone they think is not educated or have "thick accents." I bet they have enjoyed a few evenings having a few good laughs at the Georgia Crackers they have met along the way. Even reading their bios made me want to puke.

Cookerhiker
03-19-2010, 15:08
"Educated" liberal Yankees in their 20s with chips on their shoulders -- the most annoying sort of individual. They think they know more than everyone, especially anyone they think is not educated or have "thick accents." I bet they have enjoyed a few evenings having a few good laughs at the Georgia Crackers they have met along the way. Even reading their bios made me want to puke.

As an "'educated' liberal Yankee," I agree with you! Their bios reveal them to be rather self-absorbed.

Ladytrekker
03-19-2010, 15:09
According to their site from Chicago and Jersey. Mega list of college degrees. I hope their done when I do my section in May.

TD55
03-19-2010, 15:13
One time a super hot babe on her first hike asked if she could sleep in my tent because she was not comfortable with the shelter full of male hikers. I sad yes. So did my wife. I think my wife being there had something to do with the situation.:rolleyes:

bigcranky
03-19-2010, 15:18
Thanks to the link in this thread, I've been reading their journal (blog?) entries. So far I've been enjoying them. They seem introspective, self-aware, willing to learn, and not trying to gloss over the hard parts. Yes, Emily seems a little too focused on what other people think (hint -- no one is paying you much attention. Seriously.) But the others have some interesting entries.

Sure, they should have tents. Bumming space inside someone else's tent is a bad move. But lots of hikers hit the trail without training and without any idea of what they are getting into. These folks are doing fine, so far.

Thanks for the link.

Darwin again
03-19-2010, 15:31
And this also.....
1) The longer I am out here, the more apparent it becomes that the thru-hiking community is predominantly composed of men, many of whom neglect to show me respect and aknowledge that I exist. ... 2) It worked! I put them all in their place and gained their respect as a fellow thru-hiker. Now they were interested in knowing who I am.

Coupla things:
1) In other words she was being treated like a guy (or any other hiker).
2) Speeding ahead like that is a good way to get injured.

plus,
No shelter?
durh.
This is going to be fun.:rolleyes:

max patch
03-19-2010, 15:32
at least tiger went for hot chicks

yeah, that waitress at the sticky table pancake house was a real hottie.

double d
03-19-2010, 15:40
I would not let a woman I didn't know tent with me because it's not beyond the realm of possibility that she could make accusations against _me_.

Do everyone a favor -bring your own shelter.
Good point, thought the same thing. Besides, if she is so independent, then why does she "need" (a man in this case) someone to take care of her?

kanga
03-19-2010, 15:43
what a ****ing twit.

Darwin again
03-19-2010, 15:43
"Educated" liberal Yankees in their 20s with chips on their shoulders -- the most annoying sort of individual. They think they know more than everyone, especially anyone they think is not educated or have "thick accents." I bet they have enjoyed a few evenings having a few good laughs at the Georgia Crackers they have met along the way. Even reading their bios made me want to puke.

Every group of people has its share of jerks.
Even uneducated conservative Confederates in their 20s with chips on their shoulders. :rolleyes:
Put down that broad brush, dude.

David@whiteblaze
03-19-2010, 15:44
so, I guess the two morals here are:
1. If you don't want to bum things, be prepared, and:
2, if you don't want to be bummed off of, bring a hammock...

double d
03-19-2010, 15:53
"Educated" liberal Yankees in their 20s with chips on their shoulders -- the most annoying sort of individual. They think they know more than everyone, especially anyone they think is not educated or have "thick accents." I bet they have enjoyed a few evenings having a few good laughs at the Georgia Crackers they have met along the way. Even reading their bios made me want to puke.

*Lots of educated liberal Yankees on the AT who agree with your desire to puke after reading her blog. Maybe lose the stereotype of us folks North of the Mason-Dixon line (and our "thick accents" as mine is a Chicago accent) and see her for what she seems to be, neurotic as hell.

Darwin again
03-19-2010, 15:56
She's all independent, yet she seeks approval and recognition based on her gender.
She demands attention. Like a toddler.
These folks are the products of our sick society, folks.
Watch and shudder...

10-K
03-19-2010, 16:05
Keep in mind it is a blog... she might be trying a wee bit too hard to make it interesting.

Ender
03-19-2010, 16:10
Keep in mind it is a blog... she might be trying a wee bit too hard to make it interesting.

Agreed. And frankly, I know most people have at one time or another compared themselves to other hikers based on speed or some other pointless factor, especially in their early 20's. Heck, when I started my AT thru hike I was probably similar... it's the AT hike itself that calmed me down and made me get my priorities more in order. Hopefully this works for her as well.

Really, the biggest thing about this is that she wasn't carrying a shelter. (and where did her two hiking partners end up sleeping, by the way?) You should always carry a shelter, even if it's just a small tarp to wrap yourself up in at night. Especially in a season that's other than high summer, but even then you should.

Tuckahoe
03-19-2010, 16:16
Well, Cooker Hiker atleast understood the point, Sorry Darwin and Double D, that you missed it all by miles.

Cookerhiker
03-19-2010, 16:19
...You should always carry a shelter, even if it's just a small tarp to wrap yourself up in at night. Especially in a season that's other than high summer, but even then you should.

Arguably, summer may be the most important season to carry a tent because of the mosquitos.

Ender
03-19-2010, 16:22
Arguably, summer may be the most important season to carry a tent because of the mosquitos.

In terms of comfort, for sure. Once the bugs kick in, no matter what I'm in a tent at night.

EDIT: Or hammock. Whatever floats my hiker boat that trip.

Monkeyboy
03-19-2010, 16:26
I would have handed her a tarp and said "Have fun".

Darwin again
03-19-2010, 16:29
Arguably, summer may be the most important season to carry a tent because of the mosquitos.

Don't forget tick protection.
No tent is the express lane to west nile or Lyme disease.
Kewl!

Darwin again
03-19-2010, 16:32
Well, Cooker Hiker atleast understood the point, Sorry Darwin and Double D, that you missed it all by miles.

I got your point.
I just ignored it, figuring you knew what it was and would make the mental leap in due course. :-?
I said as much in my post.

Monkeyboy
03-19-2010, 16:33
Oh, boy.........one of the guy's is calling himself "Monkey".

Surprised he hasn't been shot by someone thinking he is me..........heheheheheee.

Jester2000
03-19-2010, 16:45
"Educated" liberal Yankees in their 20s with chips on their shoulders -- the most annoying sort of individual. They think they know more than everyone, especially anyone they think is not educated or have "thick accents." I bet they have enjoyed a few evenings having a few good laughs at the Georgia Crackers they have met along the way. Even reading their bios made me want to puke.


Well, Cooker Hiker atleast understood the point, Sorry Darwin and Double D, that you missed it all by miles.

I guess I missed it too. The point I got was, "I'm going to react to a broad generalization by making a different broad generalization, but I'll convince myself I'm not really doing that by using the word 'individual.'"

What was the point?

I should also point out that the post "A Chance to Breathe" by Katherine Imp was introspective and interesting, and the kind of thoughts a lot of thru-hikers deal with regardless of their education or birthplace. She and her brother both seem to get what it's about. We'll see how things go.

hellomolly
03-19-2010, 16:56
"Educated" liberal Yankees in their 20s with chips on their shoulders -- the most annoying sort of individual. They think they know more than everyone, especially anyone they think is not educated or have "thick accents." I bet they have enjoyed a few evenings having a few good laughs at the Georgia Crackers they have met along the way. Even reading their bios made me want to puke.

I take offense! I'm an educated liberal yankee (college grad, liberal minded and from new york) and I'm not like this annoying chick! ;)

soad
03-19-2010, 17:19
Every group of people has its share of jerks.
Even uneducated conservative Confederates in their 20s with chips on their shoulders. :rolleyes:
Put down that broad brush, dude.


+1

Well said

Rain Man
03-19-2010, 17:31
God has given me one more reason to grow in being "longsuffering"!!!

Rain:sunMan

.

Bulldawg
03-19-2010, 17:48
They have two zero days planned in the whole hike??? Come on, we know someone could do it, but why?:-?:-?

Kerosene
03-19-2010, 18:49
There's always a risk to judging people before you get to know them, and even someone's own written words can be misinterpreted. The obvious perception is that we may all be correct that she doesn't know what she's doing (along with many other wannabe thru-hikers), and blogging about it this way certainly doesn't help change that perception, but until someone has the opportunity to get to know her and then post, why bother with opinions? Besides, if she keeps at it, I'll bet that she will be a different person and a better prepared backpacker when she finishes; and if not, then let's bash the educational institutions that awarded her a degree!

Of course, I just added my opinion, but it's a little different than piling on. Next!

Egads
03-19-2010, 19:10
we may all be correct that she doesn't know what she's doing (along with many other wannabe thru-hikers), and blogging about it this way

She knows how to obtain a shelter..does she know how reputations are made?

fiddlehead
03-19-2010, 20:27
Ah, the entertainment of whiteblaze.
4 pages while i was sleeping on someone's thoughts during their thru-hike.

Sounds like she is having a good time.
Many of you probably wish you were too.

Why not let her hike her own hike.
She's spending her spring hiking on her dream trail.
You all are spending your's complaining about her.
Go figure!

mweinstone
03-19-2010, 20:39
women are treated great on our trail. and all tents get shared when needed. for whatever the reason be. when folks hike, they act their best. only those few who hike once and never again act differently. the espri de corps is strong and well enjoied by all in my exsperience. yes their are the horrorable ones. but they are rare. their are no women and men hikers. only fellow souls.

Roots
03-19-2010, 20:50
their are no women and men hikers. only fellow souls.


i like that...nice...:)

berkshirebirder
03-19-2010, 20:54
What happens when you put a lawyer, an ivy grad, and a city chick on the AT?

Not all that much.

Nuthatch
03-19-2010, 21:33
Her own mother just posted to her blog asking what happened to the tent Mom bought her...

sasquatch2014
03-19-2010, 21:47
Why don't young nubile females ever invite themselves into strange hammocks! we deserve equal rights! :D

Nuthatch
03-19-2010, 21:48
So, she left her two companions to sleep in the mud while flirted her way into some guy's tent?

mweinstone
03-19-2010, 21:49
contraversy makes you popular. whom among us hasnt lied as a teen hiker and said we were thruin or stole food? forget that. what im thinking is this is a young hiker with a imagination who actually is haveing a splendid time but is from some sort to weird place where you cause drama to live. who knows. theirs a mentil illness afot maby. maby not.never doubt these folks,

people screeming fire, flood, rape, or help.

Nuthatch
03-19-2010, 21:52
women are treated great on our trail. and all tents get shared when needed. for whatever the reason be. when folks hike, they act their best. only those few who hike once and never again act differently. the espri de corps is strong and well enjoied by all in my exsperience. yes their are the horrorable ones. but they are rare. their are no women and men hikers. only fellow souls.

This

;)

Nuthatch
03-19-2010, 21:57
contraversy makes you popular. whom among us hasnt lied as a teen hiker and said we were thruin or stole food? forget that. what im thinking is this is a young hiker with a imagination who actually is haveing a splendid time but is from some sort to weird place where you cause drama to live. who knows. theirs a mentil illness afot maby. maby not.never doubt these folks,

people screeming fire, flood, rape, or help.
ima thinking yes maby that happens alot yes and those ar harmless but in this case ima thinking is just a spolit rotten self entitled littl biatch that thinks she is that bombe hotte shiat and is totally bad newz

XCskiNYC
03-19-2010, 22:42
It sounds like these kids are having a tough start. They got rained on non-stop. They're carrying 3-liters of water. Their packs weigh 40 lbs. That's hard without a tent. Must have too much food. Probably a contractual obligation due to the Mountain House sponsorship.

Funny that the lawyer girl, seemingly talking about the same situation (the mud 'n' mouse shelter) makes no mention of anybody getting in any tents.

Also, the feminist's mom left a comment asking what she did with the tent she bought.

I think the trail is going to have a salutary effect on these youngsters. Hopefully they'll stick with it and provide many more interesting blog entries. And get some freakin' tents.

Sleepy the Arab
03-19-2010, 22:51
I would have handed her a tarp and said "Have fun".

I'd have thrown a brick at her.

RGB
03-19-2010, 23:15
Anyone claiming to be "independent" does not need to prove a single thing to anyone. In fact, she seems to be the exact opposite. Emotionally dependent, because she feels a need to prove something to other people, and then physically dependent, having to get people to take care of her @$$ because she was too naive to prepare at all.

The part about blowing $200 on boots that I'm assuming she knew absolutely nothing about made me smile. People like this need to be punished in some way or another, rather it being sleeping under a shelter in the mud, or indiscriminately blowing money on gear they haven't bothered to research.

Loneoak
03-19-2010, 23:16
Don't see how i missed there blog, thought I had been reading them all.

Toolshed
03-19-2010, 23:38
contraversy makes you popular. whom among us hasnt lied as a teen hiker and said we were thruin or stole food? forget that. what im thinking is this is a young hiker with a imagination who actually is haveing a splendid time but is from some sort to weird place where you cause drama to live. who knows. theirs a mentil illness afot maby. maby not.never doubt these folks,

people screeming fire, flood, rape, or help.
Just curious Matt - That wasn't you carryng a red external Frame pack back on the trail in the mid to late 90's, was it? had a million patches on it from all over the world and the dude smoked like a fiend???

moytoy
03-20-2010, 05:52
This is one of the most thought provoking threads to come along since I'm been reading this forum. I'm a NOOB mostly. It's seems to me to be just a lot of babble from this young lady. She is trying to impress on several different levels. No harm in that really. She surely didn't do enough research on what gear she should have with her.
Can you imagine what her mother thought when she read that her daughter had crawled into a tent with a strange man. WHERE IS YOUR TENT! That is classic.

Toolshed
03-20-2010, 06:56
Somehow I missed the fact tha they have sponsors....? This can only be bad. Next you'll have MTV and Jersey Shore out in "those parts"....

As of this week, we have approximately ten sponsors (http://sites.google.com/site/athike2010/sponsors) interested in providing food and gear for our trip. We have permits and waivers and a partnership agreement with One Way Street Productions (http://sites.google.com/site/athike2010/home/the-documentary). We have a blog and website (http://sites.google.com/site/athike2010/home) and news articles (http://sites.google.com/site/athike2010/home/in-the-news). We have all of our food for the next 3 months organized in rows in the basement of my parent’s house. We did a photo shoot in street clothes and gear clothes.




http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_bHh_1VVaf3E/S5X4t9U9zKI/AAAAAAAAAB0/rCJ-Li-TveM/s320/street+clotes.JPG
We did pre-trip interviews with bright lights and wireless mics. We’ve told everyone we’ve ever met about this trip via facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Appalachian-Trail-Hike-2010/290166159908) and blogspot and business cards and phone calls.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_bHh_1VVaf3E/S5X4ueJ0K0I/AAAAAAAAAB8/fv7AvudhH20/s320/gear+clothes.JPGI think this is going to be the biggest adventure of my life.

Here we go…….

Posted by Katherine Imp at 2:19 AM (http://appalachiantrail2010.blogspot.com/2010/03/ten-minutes.html) 3 comments (http://appalachiantrail2010.blogspot.com/2010/03/ten-minutes.html#comments) http://www.blogger.com/img/icon18_email.gif (http://www.blogger.com/email-post.g?blogID=8199970507158521020&postID=5336967749464873743)http://www.blogger.com/img/icon18_edit_allbkg.gif (http://www.blogger.com/post-edit.g?blogID=8199970507158521020&postID=5336967749464873743)

Egads
03-20-2010, 07:09
After seeing the pics, I don't give them more than a 10% chance of completing the hike

Lone Wolf
03-20-2010, 07:28
they're behind on their itinerary. supposed to be at wesser bald shelter tonite but are barely out of hiawassee

woodsy
03-20-2010, 07:50
At least they are out hiking, some of y'all should try it and cut out the gossip and arm chair/keyboard quarterbacking. Let kids be kids for CS

modiyooch
03-20-2010, 08:09
-One cold night in Nov, I allowed two guys to join me in my two man tent in SNP because the shelter had burned (1980). These same two guys had try to convince me to send my tent home earlier.

-As far as the boots, I had done extensive research and still sent my expensive boots home and replaced them with high top sneakers.
-If I wanted to really impress, or show up the guys, I would have just pushed 10 more miles and left them behind. I once had to stay at a shelter in GSNP with a bunch of "no it alls". It was extremely crowded. The next morning I was the first one out which was a trick in itself. When I got to the next shelter, It was smaller and I realized everyone was headed that way. I bartered the rest of my food to a thru hiker for a cup of hot chocolate, and push the remaining mileage to I40 to get out. I think was was one of my longest days around 25 miles.

mtnkngxt
03-20-2010, 08:11
I'm predicting an epic fail somewhere around PA or the Whites.

I think the drive to get rich or famous will get them that far, but I forsee their attitudes having a serious ill-effect on their sponsorship goals. From what is being said on TJ and on the web this bunch is not making many friends on the trail.

modiyooch
03-20-2010, 08:15
[QUOTE=modiyooch;990969. I once had to stay at a shelter in GSNP with a bunch of "no it alls". .[/QUOTE] That would be "know it alls". I guess I'll donote so I can edit. My donation is due anyway. It's a good research tool.

Hokie
03-20-2010, 08:23
And this also.....
The longer I am out here, the more apparent it becomes that the thru-hiking community is predominantly composed of men, many of whom neglect to show me respect and aknowledge that I exist. Some have implied that I shouldn't be out here, and that long distance hiking is a man's leisure activity. After three nights of tolerating these fraternity house attitudes, and enduring the skeptical glances, I decided to show the men why I am out here. On Wednesday morning everyone packed up and moved out to hike the ten miles to Dick's Creek Gap (where we had our box of food hidden). I waited until all the men had started hiking, and then I took off like lightning down the trail. Within five miles, I passed every single one of those men, and I left them eating my trail of dust. I was hoping to show them that I am just as physically and mentally capable as they are. I finished the ten miles in record time, so I sat around waiting and watching as all the men I had passed hours ago arrived. When the man who had been sending dirty looks in my direction arrived, he finally asked me "what's your name?" It worked! I put them all in their place and gained their respect as a fellow thru-hiker. Now they were interested in knowing who I am.


Besides, if she keeps at it, I'll bet that she will be a different person and a better prepared backpacker when she finishes; and if not, then let's bash the educational institutions that awarded her a degree!


Sounds like Ron is going over the top to take care of a novice hiker again. I don't see any evidence that she is aware of it, though.


"......with chips on their shoulders -- the most annoying sort of individual. They think they know more than everyone.

Among the reasons there is a reaction to this one is the condescending attitude that comes through directed at both Southerners and males. IMHO, the reaction she is receiving on the trail relates to her prejudices and lack of humility rather than gender. She probably has a hard time hiding her attitudes and opinions. Let's hope Kerosene is right and we can all celebrate the positive effects of the trail on her. That would be the true story of this hike - transformation.

Wishing her success transforming.

Darwin again
03-20-2010, 08:36
The single biggest thing working against them now?
The Mountain House food.

It's OK for a weekend, maybe a week, but you can't really live on it.

Darwin again
03-20-2010, 08:40
Whoops, my bad. I trusted another poster's word...
Just checked their sponsors and Mountain House isn't among them.
MH is still crap, though.

Egads
03-20-2010, 08:51
Does anyone recall the names of the hikers that WB lambasted the past few hiker seasons?

I recall a Florida boy kissing the plaque at Springer with his butt cheeks and a girl with tatts bad mouthing Ron Haven.

Piling on the condescending wanna be thru hikers is a WB tradition :D

Cookerhiker
03-20-2010, 08:56
-One cold night in Nov, I allowed two guys to join me in my two man tent in SNP because the shelter had burned (1980). These same two guys had try to convince me to send my tent home earlier. .....

Oh that's priceless! Were they old enough to know better?

Cookerhiker
03-20-2010, 09:09
From Emily's journal:

"Everyone there [Neel Gap] was friendly especially Baltimore Jack, and their hospitality/ encouragement gave me a huge boost of confidence"

I'm curious if Jack remembers this crew and what his impressions were. Often face-to-face encounters leave a far-different understanding.

Furlough
03-20-2010, 09:42
She's all independent, yet she seeks approval and recognition based on her gender.
She demands attention. Like a toddler.
These folks are the products of our sick society, folks.
Watch and shudder...

Just in case this bit of cyber literature is your only contact with folks of this age that "are products of our sick society", let me offer up that my experience with young men and woman in the Army from this same age group leads me to believe our society has produced some first class people.

weary
03-20-2010, 09:55
One November, back in the days when I was busy exploring the mountains of Maine I hiked Bigelow with a small group of reporters, including a female reporter from another newspaper. Our plans had been to sleep in the shelter in Avery Col -- a shelter that in those days was rarely full, especially never full in late November.

But it was chock a block full that night with a group AMCers, who lectured us amateurs about how to backpack, but didn't offer to squeeze over and make room for three more, even though a steady drizzle had started.

So I dug out the tiny tarp tent I had bought for $3.95 mail order and had used for years. (It remains the best trail shelter I ever owned.)

I didn't think much of my female companion. Half way up the Bigelow Firewarden Trail, she had asked help with her pack. And as a reward, she dug out one of her 10 cans of Pepsi for us to share.

Anyway we all crawled under my tent and spent a comfortable night. Not having a floor, and the lack of bugs in November helped. By not having to tie the door closed it covered us all and then some.

This story has no particular point, other than it is the only time a girl has invited herself into my tent.

BTW she went on to become a skilled mountaineer. She did winter climbs that put me to shame, trekked the Himmalayans, and incidentally, became my toughest competition during the 20 years I covered environmental affairs in Maine.

Weary

Nuthatch
03-20-2010, 09:55
From what is being said on TJ and on the web this bunch is not making many friends on the trail.I looked around on TJ, could not find anything about them. Do you have any links to TJs where this group is mentioned?

d.o.c
03-20-2010, 10:49
they should give me their sponsers ill complete a hike and wont waist their time..

Blissful
03-20-2010, 11:52
What I don't understand is someone relying on the shelter system b/c you have no personal shelter yet have aversion to mud (which shelters can have, or at least dirt with people in and out) and mice (which shelters definitely have).
Sorry but I have seen women bed down in the mud - like one shelter we were at in the Smokies when they got in late and slept under the overhang. My hat goes off to them. And they were perfectly content.

Just from reading, she does have some hang ups and issues. I can tell her though from experience, the main enemy she needs to conquer out there are not others but herself.

Jack Tarlin
03-20-2010, 11:57
Cooker:

I met these folks briefly when they passed thru Neel Gap.

Nice folks and obviously having a good time.

If I'd have known about their not having a tent I'd have certainly said something about it.

Thing to remember is that these folks are brand new to the Trail, and new folks make mistakes. Everyone does. Some of the folks ripping on these guys might want to remember this.

Funny thing......the meanest comments here are almost always made by folks sitting at home in their pajamas. Most of these folks have never thru-hiked and never will. Say what you will about these kids......at least they're out here hiking guys and not just cyber strolling.

I wish them well.

Ender
03-20-2010, 12:04
Thing to remember is that these folks are brand new to the Trail, and new folks make mistakes. Everyone does. Some of the folks ripping on these guys might want to remember this.

Agreed. No one is perfect. They for sure should be carrying a shelter... hopefully they learn to carry one from this experience. Even if it's just a small tarp.


I wish them well.

As do I. I learned a lot from hiking the AT, I think most people do. I'm sure if these guys stick with it they will as well. It just takes time and experiences.

white_russian
03-20-2010, 12:05
Just in case this bit of cyber literature is your only contact with folks of this age that "are products of our sick society", let me offer up that my experience with young men and woman in the Army from this same age group leads me to believe our society has produced some first class people.
The Army is just a cross section of society, there are both saints and douchbags. Some folks I was in with I trust completely, but others make the shadiest used car salesman seem honest.

Nuthatch
03-20-2010, 12:12
Funny thing......the meanest comments here are almost always made by folks sitting at home in their pajamas. Most of these folks have never thru-hiked and never will. Like Lone Wolf, Max Patch and Sleepy? :rolleyes:

Any "mean" comments here have 100% been earned by this twit and her condescending, self-entitled comments about men, other hikers and southerners. Ya reap what ya sow.

Jack Tarlin
03-20-2010, 12:21
Nuthatch:

Insulting people from hundreds of miles away, anonymously, does little credit to the person making the comments. Wold you talk like this to these people's faces?

I kinda doubt it.

In truth, these people are coming off better than their detractors.

Plus, they're out hiking right now, instead of happily insulting strangers on-line.

Which in my book, immediately puts them ahead of their critics. :-?

srestrepo
03-20-2010, 12:24
Nuthatch:

Insulting people from hundreds of miles away, anonymously, does little credit to the person making the comments. Wold you talk like this to these people's faces?

I kinda doubt it.

In truth, these people are coming off better than their detractors.

Plus, they're out hiking right now, instead of happily insulting strangers on-line.

Which in my book, immediately puts them ahead of their critics. :-?

:clap:clap:clap

Lone Wolf
03-20-2010, 12:25
Nuthatch:

Insulting people from hundreds of miles away, anonymously, does little credit to the person making the comments. Wold you talk like this to these people's faces?

I kinda doubt it.

In truth, these people are coming off better than their detractors.

Plus, they're out hiking right now, instead of happily insulting strangers on-line.

Which in my book, immediately puts them ahead of their critics. :-?
your girl emily is insulting folks hundreds of miles away from her.

Egads
03-20-2010, 12:35
Honestly, the level of negativity here, especially from folks who've never thru-hiked and never will is staggering.

last time I checked, the website title bar said "Whiteblaze.net - A Community of Appalachian Trail Enthusiasts"

I didn't know one had to be a thru hiker to qualify to post here :-?

These folks have a right to enjoy the trail as much as any of us. We have the right to publicly express our opinions about their hike since they are publicly blogging about their hike.

Jack Tarlin
03-20-2010, 12:38
If yo feel that strongly about the need to insult complete strangers, Egads, you should do it face to face.

But we both know that isn't too likely. :D

leaftye
03-20-2010, 13:55
Fixed that for you.




Please refrain from altering quotes. You can deliver your point in other ways. There, fixed that for you.

Jack Tarlin
03-20-2010, 14:07
Um, deliberately altering or re-writing quotes from other posters is really uncool.

Any moderators out there?

Cookerhiker
03-20-2010, 14:08
Fixed that for you.

I suppose you think you're being clever and funny.

In truth, you're immature and irresponsible:mad:

Egads
03-20-2010, 14:13
If yo feel that strongly about the need to insult complete strangers, Egads, you should do it face to face.

But we both know that isn't too likely. :D

Your statement proves you didn't read my posts, you're here for an argument

leaftye
03-20-2010, 14:21
Um, deliberately altering or re-writing quotes from other posters is really uncool.

Then get it right.

leaftye
03-20-2010, 14:33
Your statement proves you didn't read my posts, you're here for an argument

Actually, it sounds like he's breaking rules #2 & #13. He wants a moderator. For what, to get himself banned?

Rule #2, arguably broken he he accused other posters for posting in their pajamas and insulting them by saying they may never be a thru hiker:
Offensive posting is not allowed. That includes use of illegal substances, racism, sexism, or posts that ridicule, belittle, taunt, mock, or assault the character of other members. Our policy does not protect people that choose to verbally assault other members that may disagree with them. In essence members can disagree but should remain respectful of the person they disagree with.

Rule #13, again, arguably broken when he mentions a face-to-face confrontation:
Threats are absolutely unacceptable. Anyone posting a message that contains a threat to another person or their property will immediately be moved into moderated status. The posting, and all other posts made by the offender in that thread will be deleted. Please be aware that moderators can not determine when a threat is made in jest. Neither can many users; so simply do not make them. If there is a second offense it will terminate the offender's participation on WhiteBlaze. All posts, pictures, or contributions of any sort will be deleted



So you really want a moderator to step in?

Ender
03-20-2010, 14:42
Moderator here...

First, I'm going to ask that people take their personal arguments to PM.

Second, stay on topic. People are allowed to disagree. Do it respectably and we should be fine.

Do these two things and all will be right with the world. Will let the thread stand as written for now.

Jack Tarlin
03-20-2010, 15:06
No one was threatening anyone, so please don't put words in my mouth.

I merely stated that people will say things on an Internet forum that they would never dare come out with if they had to say these things to an actual person's face.

But distance and anonymity miraculously provides instant fortitude to some folks.

Pretty pathetic.

No names necessary, you know who you are.

The Old Fhart
03-20-2010, 15:12
As to the hikers being discussed, yes they are doing some things that a person who has thru hiked the trail probably wouldn't, or hopefully wouldn't do. I have seen a female hiker sans tent in the snow covered Smokies invite herself into a guy's 2-person tent but there was some discussion involved, she just didn't say "move over, you've got company" and we don't know if this was the case here or not. Time will tell if she has learned anything from these experiences and the feedback she's getting from all the 'experts'. One of the biggest problems with thru hikers, as others have pointed out, is they forget some of the faux pas they committed when the first set foot on the trail.

Let's give them a little more time and not rush to judgement.

Bulldawg
03-20-2010, 15:15
If yo feel that strongly about the need to insult complete strangers, Egads, you should do it face to face.

But we both know that isn't too likely. :D


Egads happens to be a pretty accomplished hiker in my book. I've shared a campfire or two with him, very nice guy indeed. He also has as much right to say whatever he wishes within the rules here about these egotistical, narcissistic, precocious, overeducated folks out there hiking. As much right as you do to say they are fine people Jack. Come on folks, when she states on her website something to the effect of "Can I make it to Katadhin, of course I can because I am a lawyer" Makes me want to puke!

Ender
03-20-2010, 15:16
One more time, take the personal arguments to PM.

weary
03-20-2010, 16:42
Just in case this bit of cyber literature is your only contact with folks of this age that "are products of our sick society", let me offer up that my experience with young men and woman in the Army from this same age group leads me to believe our society has produced some first class people.
Every generation in my experience has a mixture of the wise and unwise. The informed and uninformed. The knowledgeable and the ignorant. All young people over the generations need to mellow and learn a bit. That was even true for Henry Thoreau, who in Walden proclaimed he had never met an elder able to teach him anything -- well words to that effect.

The young people we seem so eager to criticize strike me as first class people, who are still learning about this strange entity known as the trail -- and life for that matter. That's not surprising, nor new. The vast majority of hikers I meant in the early weeks of my 1993 walk were equally lost, as the enormity of what they had begun began to sink in.

I observed, a number of men in 1993 seeking to share a tent with someone of the opposite sex. A few even succeeeded. Now in 2010 White Blaze seems to be shocked that the opposite could occur.

I am not shocked. Just rather pleased at the evidence of change.

The young people I most worry about are not those exploring new relationships, but those who proudly proclaim their ignorance. The saddest are those who boast that they "don't read newspapers, or watch television," apparently in fear that to do so would disrupt their "beliefs."

I'm increasingly convinced that nothing is more dangerous in this world than unsupported beliefs, even those professed by white blazers.

These kids will do alright, I suspect. They may not make Katahdin. But I'm quite sure they will learn a great deal in the attempt.

Weary

Lone Wolf
03-20-2010, 16:48
I merely stated that people will say things on an Internet forum that they would never dare come out with if they had to say these things to an actual person's face.

But distance and anonymity miraculously provides instant fortitude to some folks.

Pretty pathetic.


emily is doing the same thing on her blog. pretty pathetic.

berkshirebirder
03-20-2010, 17:37
The blog seems, well, like a blog. Chatty, but not all that much so far about actually hiking (like some trail journals). Maybe I missed something.

I'm not sure where the documentary is headed, which brings up a question. Jack, do you know if the crew tells hikers they talk with that they're being "interviewed?"

Sleepy the Arab
03-20-2010, 17:37
Cooker:

I met these folks briefly when they passed thru Neel Gap.

Nice folks and obviously having a good time.

If I'd have known about their not having a tent I'd have certainly said something about it.

Thing to remember is that these folks are brand new to the Trail, and new folks make mistakes. Everyone does. Some of the folks ripping on these guys might want to remember this.

Funny thing......the meanest comments here are almost always made by folks sitting at home in their pajamas. Most of these folks have never thru-hiked and never will. Say what you will about these kids......at least they're out here hiking guys and not just cyber strolling.

I wish them well.

I resent that Jack!

I wasn't wearing anything.

Jack Tarlin
03-20-2010, 17:45
Berkshire:

Can't answer your question as the subject of their film never came up. We discussed gear, weather, trail conditions, campsite possibilities, etc.

They were friendly, polite, outgoing, and all in all, very pleasant people who absolutely don't deserve the anonymous bitchery they've been getting here.

Some folks really need to get out more and get a life.

GeneralLee10
03-20-2010, 17:56
I'd love to read the TJs of some of these "frat boys", especially the polite young young man who got bullied into letting this spoilt woman into his tent.

Love how they make fun of Ron Haven's employee's "southern accent" (:confused:) too. Making comments like "Through the thick accent (imagine King of the Hill's Boomhauer)... :confused: :rolleyes: :mad:




I was in the shelter that night. If I do remember, I and another pushed the lame @@@@ section hikers over. So your friend could get a spot in the shelter. I am sure if the shelter were full of thru hikers. We would have had room for you too. But due to the floor hoggers we could not.

Have fun, see you in Franklin. Times are good, alot of cool people out here. Just no room for fools

berkshirebirder
03-20-2010, 17:57
That might be the case. But their "in your facebook" introduction here didn't go over well. Maybe we could give them the benefit of the doubt and see how the documentary turns out.

Behooved
03-20-2010, 17:59
They were friendly, polite, outgoing, and all in all, very pleasant people who absolutely don't deserve the anonymous bitchery they've been getting here
Perhaps you'd feel differently if you were one of the men who were lumped into the "sexist frat boy" category, simply for being a male hiker who had, y'know, like tents and stuff.:-?

Or were you firmly "put in your place" by Emily as well they day you met her? :D

Behooved
03-20-2010, 18:13
TThe saddest are those who boast that they "don't read newspapers, or watch television," Umm, I applaud any person, young or old, who refuses to be a slave to the boob tube. Agreed that people should be informed about what is going in, but to imply that newspapers (biased) and TV (manipulative garbage) are the only source of news is a bit narrowminded, IMHO.

And to return to the topic, these 20-somethings seem like they've watched waaaaaay too much television. One is a "Survivor" fanatic and the other one is a complete fashion sheeple, buying and dressing in whatever the TV celebrities are wearing. Read the lawyer girl's first blog post, where she walks into the outfitter in some fashion jeans, pauses to make sure everyone sees her huge earrings, then whines when the saleman is skeptical that she is serious about being a thru-hiker.

Glad they're out there, instead of sitting in front of the tube. But unless they do some serious growing up and getting over it, I predict they'll bail before the Smokies. One has already quit, as I've been told, now it's just the 2 girls and the cameraman.

RGB
03-20-2010, 18:26
Ya reap what ya sow.


Truer words have never been spoken.

RGB
03-20-2010, 18:29
Wow just finished the rest of the thread. You guys really took this to heart!

LOL

TD55
03-20-2010, 18:39
Somebody even whined about them being "OVER EDUCATED". Interesting concept. Made me wonder how are you supposed to know when to stop educating yerself so you don get overeducated?

Roland
03-20-2010, 18:53
Somebody even whined about them being "OVER EDUCATED". Interesting concept. Made me wonder how are you supposed to know when to stop educating yerself so you don get overeducated?

When you are amused by the irony of those who make condescending remarks about this woman, because she (they allege) made condescending remarks, you've probably gone too far.

Mags
03-20-2010, 19:13
As Ender said, keep the personal remarks to PMs. :sun

I went backcountry skiing today with the girlfriend.

If I'm nice, she lets me share a tent with her....

RGB
03-20-2010, 19:51
As Ender said, keep the personal remarks to PMs. :sun

I went backcountry skiing today with the girlfriend.

If I'm nice, she lets me share a tent with her....

And if not?

Mags
03-20-2010, 20:22
And if not?


I'm in the mud apparently....

CowHead
03-20-2010, 20:39
in this day in age if its rainy cold wet or snow if I have room I going to share it no matter what

Blissful
03-20-2010, 20:43
Well despite what this gal said (and did) on the blog, which I disagree with (that is my opinion as she has said it on an open blog for all to see) I do believe, barring injury, etc she has the determination to make it all the way. Simply b/c she is so competitive, and you need that kind of edge out there. And I'm certain she will learn a lot about herself and people and hopefully come away with a much better perspective about mankind than the shallow analysis that are being made on a blog for everyone to see and take note.

SGT Rock
03-20-2010, 20:49
Whatever happened or didn't happen, or will happen or won't happen....

The cyber world has something to examine the **** out of and talk about for weeks afterward.

Thread ought to be closed with a reminder for everyone to go hiking.

buff_jeff
03-20-2010, 21:01
As much as I want to chip in and make a few snide remarks about these people, I'm also fully aware that many, myself included, went out on that first trip with a huge chip on the old shoulder. I wasn't going to take no advice from nobody. I really thought I had it all figured out. I also went out there to prove something, not to myself, as I should have, but to others. I'm sure many here have been in the same boat but probably won't admit it.

These people are apparently pretty successful academically, and I'm sure most of their peers wouldn't even consider a weekend hike. I admire that at least. They're stepping outside of their comfort zone, into a "sub-culture" they have had no interaction with. I distinctly remember going out on my first hike with an idea of, "I'm not here to make friends." I was basically a dick to the people around me.

Oh, how I have changed.....one day, hopefully, they will say the same. I wish them the best of luck; nobody's perfect.

Mags
03-20-2010, 21:35
Whatever happened or didn't happen, or will happen or won't happen....

The cyber world has something to examine the **** out of and talk about for weeks afterward.

Thread ought to be closed with a reminder for everyone to go hiking.


Good idea. :)