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Crazy Larry #1
03-22-2010, 10:36
Car camping, RV camping, Motorcycle camping, or any type of motorized camping will not be allowed at The Place in Damascus any longer.

One exception is in place as far as I know though. During the Trail Day's Celebration these rules do not apply.

$5.00 is now the whopping cost for staying the night for those of you who actually pay.

Crazy Larry #1
04-19-2010, 08:36
I would like to re-emphasize that there is not any type of motorized camping allowed at The Place any more!

The reason I am bringing this up again is due to the fact that on more than one occasion I have had to ask people to move on that tell me that they are members here at WB.

The only time that this rule will not apply is the week preceding Trail Days and the weekend thereof. The week following Trail Days we will reinforce this rule.

The Place is reserved for hikers on foot and cross country bicyclists only.

And as usual we have already had thru hikers breaking the rules at The Place with drinking and other infractions. The way that you present yourself is the way that you present the whole hiking community and undoubtedly some of you here have already reaped the repercussions of some unruly thru hiker in some community.

Lone Wolf
07-01-2010, 00:08
Car camping, RV camping, Motorcycle camping, or any type of motorized camping will not be allowed at The Place in Damascus any longer.

One exception is in place as far as I know though. During the Trail Day's Celebration these rules do not apply.

$5.00 is now the whopping cost for staying the night for those of you who actually pay.

rules don't matter. somebody drove in tonite and was setting up a tent while a dog was walking around loose. i asked whose dog was it and he said it was his and that it was a "service dog". The Place is not open to the public so whatever "service dog" crap rules don't apply. i'm sick of people taking advantage of the church. i hope they close it

Crazy Larry #1
07-12-2010, 11:33
rules don't matter. somebody drove in tonite and was setting up a tent while a dog was walking around loose. i asked whose dog was it and he said it was his and that it was a "service dog". The Place is not open to the public so whatever "service dog" crap rules don't apply. i'm sick of people taking advantage of the church. i hope they close it
I hope they close it as well, it is nothing but a headache to have to keep telling people to pack it up and leave because they want to follow their own rules.....

Lone Wolf
11-01-2010, 08:52
parking at "The Place" is no longer allowed. the lot is for church goers only.

generoll
11-01-2010, 09:23
so is there a good place to leave your car if you plan on hiking into Damascus?

John B
11-01-2010, 09:42
When I was there, I rented a spot across the street from Mt. Rogers Outfitters.

Crazy Larry #1
11-01-2010, 10:43
you guys can come see me and if I have room in my driveway I will let you park there....

Lone Wolf
11-01-2010, 15:50
so is there a good place to leave your car if you plan on hiking into Damascus?

there's a public parking lot near the PO next to The Old Mill

ChinMusic
11-01-2010, 16:29
there's a public parking lot near the PO next to The Old Mill
That is where I parked on a section hike into Damascus.

Lone Wolf
01-25-2011, 16:42
Car camping, RV camping, Motorcycle camping, or any type of motorized camping will not be allowed at The Place in Damascus any longer.

One exception is in place as far as I know though. During the Trail Day's Celebration these rules do not apply.

$5.00 is now the whopping cost for staying the night for those of you who actually pay.


parking at "The Place" is no longer allowed. the lot is for church goers only.

and NO service/therapy dogs allowed. no exceptions

Lilred
01-25-2011, 18:14
ok guys, then if I come out there for trail days, can I park my vintage travel trailer at your place??? I'll pay for electric......

ChinMusic
01-25-2011, 18:47
and NO service/therapy dogs allowed. no exceptions
Can they do that? I mean restaurants have to let service dogs in. I hope they aren't opening themselves up.

Lone Wolf
01-25-2011, 18:54
Can they do that? I mean restaurants have to let service dogs in. I hope they aren't opening themselves up.

"The Place" is not open to the public. it's not a business. it's private property

Appalachian Tater
01-25-2011, 20:08
Can they do that? I mean restaurants have to let service dogs in. I hope they aren't opening themselves up.

Probably are opening themselves up to problems.

http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/stusvaguidedoglaws.htm

It's a shame that a church would openly discriminate against the handicapped.

Phreak
01-25-2011, 20:12
"The Place" is not open to the public. it's not a business. it's private property
It may be private property but its open to the public. Denying a service dog could be problematic.

Bearpaw
01-26-2011, 23:16
Probably are opening themselves up to problems.

http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/stusvaguidedoglaws.htm

It's a shame that a church would openly discriminate against the handicapped.


It may be private property but its open to the public. Denying a service dog could be problematic.

Then close the place down. Problem solved.

The church could sell the house come out much better. The place was well-used but clean a decade ago when I thru-hiked. The last couple of times I've visited while in Damascus, it looked more like a flophouse.

Lone Wolf
07-14-2011, 15:31
and NO service/therapy dogs allowed. no exceptions


Can they do that? I mean restaurants have to let service dogs in. I hope they aren't opening themselves up.


Probably are opening themselves up to problems.

http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/stusvaguidedoglaws.htm

It's a shame that a church would openly discriminate against the handicapped.

the caretaker spoke to a lawyer about this issue. they DO NOT have to accept service dogs. it's not a business, it's donation only, it's private property and not open to the general public. a couple and a service dog got asked to leave today. WAY too many problems with dogs in past at "The Place"

WingedMonkey
07-14-2011, 16:18
With the training and expense real service dogs require I can't imagine anyone staying at "The Place" with their animal. Most owners I have met don't want people touching and distracting their service dog.
The sad thing is that so many "hikers" would be dishonest enough to claim a dog is a service animal just to get around normal rules.

Lone Wolf
07-14-2011, 21:43
the caretaker spoke to a lawyer about this issue. they DO NOT have to accept service dogs. it's not a business, it's donation only, it's private property and not open to the general public. a couple and a service dog got asked to leave today. WAY too many problems with dogs in past at "The Place"now that i've stewed this over i'm really pissed at these hikers with their "service dogs". every one of these owners of these dogs that come to the hostel have an extreme chip on their shoulder and are ready to fight for their rights. it's always about them not about where they're stayin' and the rules. it's one-sided. they feel they have a right to stay anywhere they want. if they really knew the laws they wouldn't pull the attitude crap at a church run hostel. it's very tiring dealing with hikers.. worse than any torist on the planet.

Lyle
07-14-2011, 22:23
"B. A person with a disability is entitled to full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, and privileges of all common carriers, airplanes, motor vehicles, railroad trains, motor buses, streetcars, subways, boats or any other public conveyances or modes of transportation, restaurants, hotels, lodging places, places of public accommodation, amusement or resort, public entities including schools, and other places to which the general public is invited subject only to the conditions and limitations established by law and applicable alike to all persons."

*******************

While I sympathize with the problems The Place is having, and think any of the hikers who "claim" that their dog is a service dog when they are not are low-lifes, I think the Church is opening itself up to substantial risk. It does not stipulate anywhere in the law that it only applies to commercial, or for-a-fee accommodations. The only caveat is that the person must meet other conditions, such as no auto and be a hiker or biker. This law seems to negate the Church's restriction on the dogs as it applies to service dogs.

One lawyer's opinion would not change my mind about what this law says, and what the known intent of the law is.

Lone Wolf
07-14-2011, 22:32
wrong lyle. it's not a lodging place or place of public accommodation. i can assure you the caretaker is within the law.

Lyle
07-14-2011, 22:38
If I were on the jury, and was given this law to interpret, I would be finding for the disabled person. No doubt about that.

Lone Wolf
07-14-2011, 22:55
If I were on the jury, and was given this law to interpret, I would be finding for the disabled person. No doubt about that.there will never be a jury trial over a $5 suggested donation church hostel. what part of private property, non-business don't you get?

Lyle
07-14-2011, 23:14
Well, I see no where in that law that limits its application to publicly owned. If that were the case, and the law didn't apply to private property, no motel or hotel would be required to accept service dogs. I also do not see anyplace in the law that requires that it be a "business". I only see that it applies to places open to the public. The Place, offering mattresses, shower, cooking facilities, bathroom facilities, and lounging facilities for hikers and bikers who just walk or ride into town, certainly is a place of "Public Accommodation".

Regardless, as others have said. It's very disappointing that a church facility would take such a discriminatory stance. I now agree, if the church feels like they need to discriminate against legitimately disabled hikers, and use some potential loophole in the law to circumvent the spirit of the legislation, then The Place should be shut down. The sooner the better.

Panzer1
07-14-2011, 23:42
I now agree, if the church feels like they need to discriminate against legitimately disabled hikers....

what was his disability. was that established yet.

Panzer

tdoczi
07-14-2011, 23:43
If I were on the jury, and was given this law to interpret, I would be finding for the disabled person. No doubt about that.

juries dont interpret laws.

WingedMonkey
07-15-2011, 00:20
what was his disability. was that established yet.

Panzer

No opinion on where the hostel falls within the laws.
But as to the Americans With Disabilities Act, you may not inquire as to what a persons disability is, and in most circumstances may not ask if the dog is certified.
This was put in so that a person could be assured privacy. I volunteer with a wheelchair tennis organization and have many friends covered under ADA for various reasons.
I think this is a big error in the ADA that needs to be corrected. I believe that people using service animal should be required to obtain some sort of permit, just as you do for a parking decal or a vehicle tag. Way too many people are abusing this rule when they don't have to prove a disability.

Panzer1
07-15-2011, 00:44
But as to the Americans With Disabilities Act, you may not inquire as to what a persons disability is...

Still, if you look at a disabled person you should be able to see that they have a disability disability.

Panzer

WingedMonkey
07-15-2011, 01:12
Still, if you look at a disabled person you should be able to see that they have a disability disability.

Panzer

Service dogs are allowed under a lot of disabilities including loss of hearing, seizure alert, and even mental disorders such as PTSD. Business owners/managers can ask 2 specific questions. 1) Is this a service dog required because of a disability? and 2) What task(s) is the dog trained to perform? If these questions are not appropriately answered, the business may exclude the animal, but not the person.

Churches are allowed to prohibit them at the church's discretion.

WingedMonkey
07-15-2011, 01:19
Here you go Lone Wolf
I. Who is Covered by Title III of the ADA
Entities controlled by religious organizations, including places of worship, are not covered.

U.S. Department of Justice
Civil Rights Division
Disability Rights Section

http://www.ada.gov/t3hilght.htm

Panzer1
07-15-2011, 02:30
still, the service dog would have to be with a handycapped person. We haven't established that the person was handycapped, have we.

Panzer

Lone Wolf
07-15-2011, 05:40
The Place, offering mattresses, shower, cooking facilities, bathroom facilities, and lounging facilities for hikers and bikers who just walk or ride into town, certainly is a place of "Public Accommodation".

Regardless, as others have said. It's very disappointing that a church facility would take such a discriminatory stance. I now agree, if the church feels like they need to discriminate against legitimately disabled hikers, and use some potential loophole in the law to circumvent the spirit of the legislation, then The Place should be shut down. The sooner the better.The Place doesn't have mattresses or cooking facilities. the church is not taking a discriminatory stance but i guess if you see that way they discriminate against smokers, drug users, alcohol users and non-hikers. dogs hiking through the woods tend to have ticks and fleas. they don't belong in a hostel

Rocket Jones
07-15-2011, 06:00
dogs hiking through the woods tend to have ticks and fleas. they don't belong in a hostel

So you admit that The Place discriminates against Insect-Americans? ;)

restless
07-15-2011, 06:13
Regardless of what you think regarding the service dog issue, the plain fact is that The Place, along with its rules have been consistently abused over the years by hikers, both thru- and section hikers. Not everyone is guilty, there have been many fine hikers over the years that have stayed there as well. Lone Wolf is not the first caretaker to deal with this issue; when I first came to Damascus, Dave, Trashman and others tried, albeit in vain, to enforce the rules. Hikers that can't abide by the rules should stay elsewhere-like the woods. There are other places in town to stay as well, but they can be just as adamant in enforcement of their rules as well. Personally, I think The Place should close down. It seems that a majority of problem hikers stay there and as a result give the town a bad name. The Placehas been a service to many well intentioned hikers over the years, but as others have said, it seems to be nothing short of a flophouse any more. Lone Wolf, I'm sure has better things to do than babysit.

Jeff
07-15-2011, 06:31
I have seen a number of "service dogs" climbing Katahdin with their owner. Hope they were all legit.

daddytwosticks
07-15-2011, 07:19
Maybe the point is being missed...hikers' who feel they are "entitled". The me, me, me, type. Maybe this affliction is a disability and they NEED service dogs?

restless
07-15-2011, 07:20
I have seen a number of "service dogs" climbing Katahdin with their owner. Hope they were all legit.

I seriously doubt it...there was/is a thread on this site regarding a guy who wanted to get his dog classified as a "service dog" just so he could hike with his dog thru the Smokies. This is the ultimate in entitlement hiking.

JJJ
07-15-2011, 08:40
I just ran across this little story that seems apropos

" Our next mission was to find camping. We had heard of this place called “The Place,” a hostel run by the United Methodist church, which offers wooden bunks, warm showers and a communal kitchen to long-distance hikers and cyclists. You can stay there for two nights and are asked to make a small donation, but only if you OBEY the rules (more on that later). When we walked inside the hostel I immediately felt strange.
The old house reminded me of an abandoned fraternity house, but instead of drunk college boys inside, we found stacks of prayer books covered in dust, faded Jesus posters on the walls, about a half-dozen “ABSOLUTELY NO DRINKING OR SMOKING” signs, and one very hungry hiker named Grant. Grant was a “through hiker” heading northbound on the AT (Appalachian Trail) and had also just arrived at “The Place.”........

[later in the story]........
The three of us, Denim, Ryan and I decided to go have a few beers at the towns only pub, Quincy’s, but since they were closing early that night the new plan was to go pick up a six pack of Yuengling at the gas station, then stop by “The Place” to grab some dice from our tent and then head down to the creek to play Farkle (for those of you who don’t know how to play Farkle, learn it and play it, it’s a good time). Remember when I was telling you about the half-dozen “No Drinking On Property” signs posted all over “The Place?” I wasn’t joking. This place is as strict as Miss Trunchbull from Matilda. There had already ben a police officer inspecting the grounds earlier that day, in fact. Right when Ryan walked up to our tent to grab the dice, Wolf, the hostel caretaker, charged outside the front door with a flashlight. He was on a fire and immediately shined his flashlight on our six-pack of Yuengling. “That’s it! Pack up and get the hell out of here!”, he yelled at Ryan. We tried explaining to him that we had not planned on drinking beer on the property and were only grabbing something out of the tent, but it was hopeless. He wouldn’t let us get out a single word. “I’m tired of this sh[@]t! I’ve been dealing with this all week! You have 30 minutes to pack up and get the hell out!” Apparently, this guy was sick and tired of previous hikers disrespecting the hostel rules and was taking his anger out on us. We quickly packed our things and went to Craig’s apartment to figure out our next plan of action. Being team players and not really all that thrilled with the hostel, Grant and Denim grabbed their bags and joined us.
Shocked and confused about what had just happened at “The Place,” Craig began explaining to us about the two types of people from Damascus. He told us that there are the older locals, those living there since the railroad was still operating, who feel like the sudden boom of tourists in their town are nothing more than an inconvenience. Then there were the younger locals, who recognize the need of tourism in their town, and therefore have come to embrace the hikers and bikers passing through. Ever since the collapse of the lumber industry and the introduction of the explosive, mountaintop removal technology in the coal industry, thousands of jobs have been lost and hundreds of towns have been abandoned in Appalachia. Without the steady influx of eco-travelers, small businesses like the WhistlePig wouldn’t be able to survive in a town like Damascus. We believed Wolf to be the latter of the two, and didn’t really regret getting kicked out."

the rest of the story is mostly about the Whistlepig (http://americabycycle.com/day-by-day/a-piece-of-hillbilly-paradise-on-route-76)

I'm as much in favor of hedonism as the next guy, but there's a time and place for everything. Givemhell, LW ;)

JJJ

Nutbrown
07-15-2011, 09:18
People who fake a disability to aquire a handicap permit for parking or to travel with their 'service animal' are ratbastards. I can only wish that they can live a disabled life for just one day, maybe then they will understand how selfish they are being.

nufsaid
07-15-2011, 09:46
JJJ, interesting to see the inside view of an "entitled" cyclist. Seems entitled cyclists are no different that entitled hikers. Or a great many others in our society today that seem to feel that they are owed something and should be treated as special.

nufsaid
07-15-2011, 09:52
Just the title "A piece of Hillbilly Paradise on Route 76" seems to show that they feel themselves superior to the native scum.

nufsaid
07-15-2011, 10:09
"The next morning Ryan and I ran into the four crazy hikers again at Mojoe’s, and as it turned out they also got kicked out of the hostel that morning. Since they had stayed two nights, check out time was 8 am, apparently. We all had our much needed vent session about the rules at “The Place”"

Interesting how some chose to stay somewhere where the rules are clearly posted and then are offended when they are expected to follow them. "Wolf" must be a saint to deal with this cr*p without resorting to violence.

Lone Wolf
07-15-2011, 10:27
"The next morning Ryan and I ran into the four crazy hikers again at Mojoe’s, and as it turned out they also got kicked out of the hostel that morning. Since they had stayed two nights, check out time was 8 am, apparently. We all had our much needed vent session about the rules at “The Place”"

Interesting how some chose to stay somewhere where the rules are clearly posted and then are offended when they are expected to follow them. "Wolf" must be a saint to deal with this cr*p without resorting to violence.2 of the 4 hikers were on their 4th day without an OK from the caretaker and i askede them the day before to get permission. the other 2 weren't kicked out. they chose to leave with the others

Lone Wolf
07-15-2011, 10:31
I just ran across this little story that seems apropos

" Our next mission was to find camping. We had heard of this place called “The Place,” a hostel run by the United Methodist church, which offers wooden bunks, warm showers and a communal kitchen to long-distance hikers and cyclists. You can stay there for two nights and are asked to make a small donation, but only if you OBEY the rules (more on that later). When we walked inside the hostel I immediately felt strange.
The old house reminded me of an abandoned fraternity house, but instead of drunk college boys inside, we found stacks of prayer books covered in dust, faded Jesus posters on the walls, about a half-dozen “ABSOLUTELY NO DRINKING OR SMOKING” signs, and one very hungry hiker named Grant. Grant was a “through hiker” heading northbound on the AT (Appalachian Trail) and had also just arrived at “The Place.”........

[later in the story]........
The three of us, Denim, Ryan and I decided to go have a few beers at the towns only pub, Quincy’s, but since they were closing early that night the new plan was to go pick up a six pack of Yuengling at the gas station, then stop by “The Place” to grab some dice from our tent and then head down to the creek to play Farkle (for those of you who don’t know how to play Farkle, learn it and play it, it’s a good time). Remember when I was telling you about the half-dozen “No Drinking On Property” signs posted all over “The Place?” I wasn’t joking. This place is as strict as Miss Trunchbull from Matilda. There had already ben a police officer inspecting the grounds earlier that day, in fact. Right when Ryan walked up to our tent to grab the dice, Wolf, the hostel caretaker, charged outside the front door with a flashlight. He was on a fire and immediately shined his flashlight on our six-pack of Yuengling. “That’s it! Pack up and get the hell out of here!”, he yelled at Ryan. We tried explaining to him that we had not planned on drinking beer on the property and were only grabbing something out of the tent, but it was hopeless. He wouldn’t let us get out a single word. “I’m tired of this sh[@]t! I’ve been dealing with this all week! You have 30 minutes to pack up and get the hell out!” Apparently, this guy was sick and tired of previous hikers disrespecting the hostel rules and was taking his anger out on us. We quickly packed our things and went to Craig’s apartment to figure out our next plan of action. Being team players and not really all that thrilled with the hostel, Grant and Denim grabbed their bags and joined us.
Shocked and confused about what had just happened at “The Place,” Craig began explaining to us about the two types of people from Damascus. He told us that there are the older locals, those living there since the railroad was still operating, who feel like the sudden boom of tourists in their town are nothing more than an inconvenience. Then there were the younger locals, who recognize the need of tourism in their town, and therefore have come to embrace the hikers and bikers passing through. Ever since the collapse of the lumber industry and the introduction of the explosive, mountaintop removal technology in the coal industry, thousands of jobs have been lost and hundreds of towns have been abandoned in Appalachia. Without the steady influx of eco-travelers, small businesses like the WhistlePig wouldn’t be able to survive in a town like Damascus. We believed Wolf to be the latter of the two, and didn’t really regret getting kicked out."

the rest of the story is mostly about the Whistlepig (http://americabycycle.com/day-by-day/a-piece-of-hillbilly-paradise-on-route-76)

I'm as much in favor of hedonism as the next guy, but there's a time and place for everything. Givemhell, LW ;)

JJJthe signs say "no alcohol on the property". doesn't mean you can carry it on the property after dark to stop at your tent then go somewhere else. i've heard that excuse dozens of times when i catch hikers with beer. they got caught and i'm the A hole.

Sly
07-15-2011, 10:46
Is the WhistlePig where Fatties used to be?

Crazy Larry #1
07-15-2011, 10:48
Regardless, as others have said. It's very disappointing that a church facility would take such a discriminatory stance. I now agree, if the church feels like they need to discriminate against legitimately disabled hikers, and use some potential loophole in the law to circumvent the spirit of the legislation, then The Place should be shut down. The sooner the better.The church owns the building and the property and that is it. The budget for The Place is a seperate entity. The taking care of said property falls under contract to an individual and his volunteers which happens to be none other than Lone Wolf and myself....

Chew on that lawyer....

Sly
07-15-2011, 10:53
Check out time is 8AM? Sounds a little early, if one were to do chores to help out they'd have no time.

the goat
07-15-2011, 10:58
i hope they close it


I hope they close it as well, it is nothing but a headache to have to keep telling people to pack it up and leave because they want to follow their own rules.....

i call BS. you wouldn't know what to do with your all your free time if they close it.

Crazy Larry #1
07-15-2011, 11:08
i call BS. you wouldn't know what to do with your all your free time if they close it.oh yes i would i would have more time to pick my nosee, so there!

nufsaid
07-15-2011, 11:18
Check out time is 8AM? Sounds a little early, if one were to do chores to help out they'd have no time.

Doesn't sound like many choose to clean up after themselves much less do chores to help out. Sounds like some are availing themselves to more than an overnight stay. Those that want to do chores to help out have lots of opportunities. Even those that only stay one night.

Lone Wolf
07-15-2011, 13:03
Check out time is 8AM? Sounds a little early, if one were to do chores to help out they'd have no time.there is no check out time. 8 AM was the time that TOW woke the guys up that morning and asked the 2 vagrants to leave

Lone Wolf
07-15-2011, 13:16
Regardless, as others have said. It's very disappointing that a church facility would take such a discriminatory stance. I now agree, if the church feels like they need to discriminate against legitimately disabled hikers, and use some potential loophole in the law to circumvent the spirit of the legislation, then The Place should be shut down. The sooner the better.dude, who's to know who is a "legitimately disabled hiker"? folks with these so-called service dogs aren't obligated to show you any paperwork saying they have a disability or that the dog is trained. in every case at the hostel the dogs were on plain old leashes with no identifying vests. in the past they let a couple of "service dogs" stay with hikers at The Place and both times on my early morning rounds these dogs were running loose inside the building and on the property while the owners were passed out drunk. service dogs should NEVER be unleashed or leave the owner's side. thanks to cases like this NO dogs of any kind are allowed on the property. there is no discrimination

Lone Wolf
07-15-2011, 13:38
"The next morning Ryan and I ran into the four crazy hikers again at Mojoe’s, and as it turned out they also got kicked out of the hostel that morning. Since they had stayed two nights, check out time was 8 am, apparently. We all had our much needed vent session about the rules at “The Place”"

Interesting how some chose to stay somewhere where the rules are clearly posted and then are offended when they are expected to follow them. "Wolf" must be a saint to deal with this cr*p without resorting to violence.the day before this incident i walked into the hostel mid-afternoon and walked thru to the back entrance and a couple were sitting on the porch right under the "no alcohol on property" sign, drinking beer. i calmly, in a controlled voice asked them to pack up and leave the property ASAP. the female immediately started to apologize and said she would take the beer elsewhere that way they wouldn't have to leave. i said absolutely not. you blatantly broke one the churches strictest rules. she started to cry and whine about how difficult the past 460 miles of hiking had been and they needed to unwind and i was being unfair. i then gave them 10 minutes to leave then i was gonna call the police.

Lone Wolf
07-15-2011, 13:41
she left me a love note too "to the man that made us leave: we were harming no one. thank you for reminding me why i don't believe in organized religion. you never practice what you preach. enjoy your B S prohibition. Love J&G

Lone Wolf
07-15-2011, 16:08
Here you go Lone Wolf
I. Who is Covered by Title III of the ADA
Entities controlled by religious organizations, including places of worship, are not covered.

U.S. Department of Justice
Civil Rights Division
Disability Rights Section

http://www.ada.gov/t3hilght.htmline 9
http://www.servicedogcentral.org/content/faq/63

Crazy Larry #1
10-13-2011, 16:22
Well The Place is closed once again due to the fact that hikers keep refusing to drop five bucks in the box. The Methodist church just does not have the funds to keep it going, in fact their bank account is just about at the zero mark whether anyone wants to believe that or not. What we are going to do is rent The Place out to church groups and scouts because they pay. Next year we hope to have things under better control if they decide to have it open meaning like a caretaker in place. So if any of you might be interested in being a caretaker you might get a hold of Tom Hayes through the church...

wornoutboots
10-13-2011, 16:30
So Sorry to hear this!! I was planning on staying there next Monday night. How disgusting it is to have hikers to abuse such a wonderful place!

Lone Wolf
10-13-2011, 20:31
How disgusting it is to have hikers to abuse such a wonderful place!it's in their nature these days. me, me, me

Lone Wolf
10-13-2011, 20:37
it's in their nature these days. me, me, meat least 12 SOBOs stayed 2 nites ago and left NO money in the donation box. nice

tridavis
10-13-2011, 20:52
My scout troop is looking for a place next Spring. What is the capacity and rates?? Thanks Troop 101, greensboro, nc.

Lone Wolf
10-13-2011, 20:57
My scout troop is looking for a place next Spring. What is the capacity and rates?? Thanks Troop 101, greensboro, nc.30 bunks inside and tons of tent space outside. $5 per person per night

wornoutboots
10-13-2011, 21:36
& for 5 bucks you get a kitchen, shower, meeting area (living room) & it's in the center of town & plenty of room to separate the snorer's from the non's :O)

Johnny Thunder
10-13-2011, 21:53
larry. it'd be a few years off but i'd be interested in being a caretaker for the spring of 2013 or 2014.

generoll
10-13-2011, 21:54
room to walk your dog?

Lugnut
10-13-2011, 22:50
I didn't think dogs were allowed at the Place.

Lone Wolf
10-14-2011, 03:41
I didn't think dogs were allowed at the Place.gene is just bein' funny. of course dogs ain't allowed. not even "service" dogs

Stir Fry
10-14-2011, 06:39
More bogos "service Dogs" then you can shake a stick at. You can get fake documents over the internet. Makes it bad for the real macoy.

Crazy Larry #1
10-20-2011, 17:11
The Place is open once again, for how long who knows....

Tinker
10-20-2011, 17:28
That might be a long term answer to the problem. When Bill Irwin, who wrote Blind Courage thruhiked the AT with his guide dog, Orient, he had the owner of a restaurant call the authorities on him because he wouldn't leave the dog outside. When the law arrived, they informed the proprietor that she had to let the dog to stay (after he read the paper on which the laws were written regarding guide dogs, their owners, and their rights), or he would have to close the establishment down immediately.
This law may not apply to those who need a "cuddle dog" for their feelings of insecurity (I have a grown friend with an anxiety problem who has a dog to help him deal with it - frankly I don't understand it, but I guess I don't need to).
So, if The Place refuses access to a seeing eye dog, I guess they will have the decision to close made for them by someone else.
"Give them an inch and they'll take a mile".
It only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch, etc, etc.
Here's one of my own:
"A better world begins with you". :)

Sorry, I meant to include the post below with my comment (and I should have read the whole thread, but I didn't).


http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/miscgreen/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Lone Wolf http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/buttonsgreen/viewpost-right.png (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=1101575#post1101575)
and NO service/therapy dogs allowed. no exceptions



Can they do that? I mean restaurants have to let service dogs in. I hope they aren't opening themselves up.

Tinker
10-20-2011, 17:34
The Place is open once again, for how long who knows....

Probably 'til 71x7 (not so obscure Biblical reference). ;)

Lone Wolf
10-20-2011, 20:29
That might be a long term answer to the problem. When Bill Irwin, who wrote Blind Courage thruhiked the AT with his guide dog, Orient, he had the owner of a restaurant call the authorities on him because he wouldn't leave the dog outside. When the law arrived, they informed the proprietor that she had to let the dog to stay (after he read the paper on which the laws were written regarding guide dogs, their owners, and their rights), or he would have to close the establishment down immediately.
This law may not apply to those who need a "cuddle dog" for their feelings of insecurity (I have a grown friend with an anxiety problem who has a dog to help him deal with it - frankly I don't understand it, but I guess I don't need to).
So, if The Place refuses access to a seeing eye dog, I guess they will have the decision to close made for them by someone else.
"Give them an inch and they'll take a mile".
It only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch, etc, etc.
Here's one of my own:
"A better world begins with you". :)

Sorry, I meant to include the post below with my comment (and I should have read the whole thread, but I didn't).


http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/miscgreen/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Lone Wolf http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/buttonsgreen/viewpost-right.png (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=1101575#post1101575)
and NO service/therapy dogs allowed. no exceptions



Can they do that? I mean restaurants have to let service dogs in. I hope they aren't opening themselves up. churches and their entities are exempt from ADA laws. study up before you post

Razor
10-20-2011, 20:54
Also it should be known that the blind association has made dog guides on the AT against their rules .They say it is crulety to the animal because it is there to help the blind person and no one is there to help the dog over obstacles. Bill was the last person to use one. That makes about a large percentage of the service dogs out there a bogus shame .

Tinker
10-20-2011, 21:04
churches and their entities are exempt from ADA laws. study up before you post

I didn't know that. Unfortunately, I made the unfortunate assumption that churches were under the same rules as other organizations. I guess this is one of those "separation of church and state" in which the church gets to make the call rather than the other way 'round. Thanks for setting the record straight, LW.

restless
10-21-2011, 07:51
Thought I would post this on this thread for those who would argue with LW regarding service dogs.Under Subsection III, section 12187, exsception for religious organizationsis plainly laid out. Service dogs should be acceptable at all public facilities that are not church owned. Non-service dogs don't have to be accepted anywhere. I agree with Stri Fry that one can get papers anywhere; an earlier thread had this hiker wanting to get papers for his dog so he could hike with it thru the Smokies.

Heres the link for the Americans with Disabilities Act:

http://www.ada.gov/pubs/adastatute08.htm

Tinker
10-21-2011, 09:18
Thought I would post this on this thread for those who would argue with LW regarding service dogs.Under Subsection III, section 12187, exsception for religious organizationsis plainly laid out. Service dogs should be acceptable at all public facilities that are not church owned. Non-service dogs don't have to be accepted anywhere. I agree with Stri Fry that one can get papers anywhere; an earlier thread had this hiker wanting to get papers for his dog so he could hike with it thru the Smokies.

Heres the link for the Americans with Disabilities Act:

http://www.ada.gov/pubs/adastatute08.htm

Thanks for the link. Spells it out pretty clearly.

Lone Wolf
10-31-2011, 20:03
The Place is open once again, for how long who knows.......after tonite, never again hopefully. just caught 4 SOBOs blatantly drinking beer openly inside the hostel. this may be the final nail in the coffin. thru-hikers are wonderful. they oughta be proud

Doc Mike
10-31-2011, 20:07
Did you send them packing?

Lone Wolf
10-31-2011, 20:10
Did you send them packing?me, larry and a couple of LEOs

Doc Mike
11-01-2011, 04:49
Why is it so hard for some people to follow the rules? It is usually the few who ruin things for the many by not following them.

How about this Rule: If you don't like the rules where your staying then stay somewhere else.

Cookerhiker
11-01-2011, 09:02
Why is it so hard for some people to follow the rules? It is usually the few who ruin things for the many by not following them.

How about this Rule: If you don't like the rules where your staying then stay somewhere else.

You hear about the entitlement mentality "I'm a thruhiker and deserve special treatment." I guess they think rules don't apply to them.

It's not new although some veterans of trail towns and the current AT hiking scene will say it's gotten worse in the last few years. Robert Rubin's On the Beaten Path - An Appalachian Pilgrimage narrating his 1997 thruhike related how a thruhiker brought his dog inside a church hostel in VT in clear violation of the rules and then lied about it when caught. Rules didn't apply to him either.

Trailbender
11-01-2011, 09:28
churches and their entities are exempt from ADA laws. study up before you post

That's odd, every time I see a church around where I live, they have parking spots and wheelchair ramps. I don't think they should be exempt, honestly.


Why is it so hard for some people to follow the rules? It is usually the few who ruin things for the many by not following them.

How about this Rule: If you don't like the rules where your staying then stay somewhere else.

I met people in the Army that couldn't even follow rules. I told them that what they were ordered to do was not a suggestion. I only drank a couple of times at a hostel, it was one or two beers, and I always asked first. If they said no, it was not a problem to not drink. I drink more at home than I did on my thru, everything has been boring and washed out since I got back, nothing really seems enjoyable anymore. I do dayhikes, and I do like them, but it isn't the same. If I didn't have 30K in student loans, I'd be out there right now(maybe not, since winter is coming on). Once I get the loans paid off, probably going to just hike all the trails for the rest of my life. I have never been interested in a "square", boring normal existence, wife, kids, a house, a long term career, none of that has ever appealed much to me.

Lone Wolf
11-01-2011, 09:55
That's odd, every time I see a church around where I live, they have parking spots and wheelchair ramps. I don't think they should be exempt, honestly.
churches are tax exempt too. just the way it is. all the churches here in town do have ramps and parking spots and i'm sure they'd let a trained, licensed service dog in the church with it's owner but hikers abuse the goodness of churches by sneaking dogs in the hostel and claiming they're service dogs when caught. so thanks to them legitimate ones suffer

LDog
11-01-2011, 10:44
That's odd, every time I see a church around where I live, they have parking spots and wheelchair ramps. I don't think they should be exempt, honestly.

Not everyone needs a mandate to do the right thing.

wornoutboots
11-03-2011, 09:00
I was stunned by how many sobo's didn't even know about The Place"? Last week another hostel in town had plenty of hikers for $21/ night & when I met hikers on the trail & asked them where they stayed in Damascus, they said they never heard of the The Place, one even said he got a hotel room in Abington. Everyone I told were kicking themselves for not staying at the Place ofr $5. maybe it's not in every guide book or advertised well? Great Place!

Lone Wolf
11-03-2011, 14:43
I was stunned by how many sobo's didn't even know about The Place"? Last week another hostel in town had plenty of hikers for $21/ night & when I met hikers on the trail & asked them where they stayed in Damascus, they said they never heard of the The Place, one even said he got a hotel room in Abington. Everyone I told were kicking themselves for not staying at the Place ofr $5. maybe it's not in every guide book or advertised well? Great Place!the majority of the SOBOs that did stay donated no money to help keep it going.

Crazy Larry #1
11-04-2011, 09:41
There is only one dog allowed at The Place and even in some of the churches here in Damascus and that would be my Sally!

Crazy Larry #1
11-04-2011, 09:46
the majority of the SOBOs that did stay donated no money to help keep it going.and that is no lie, not only are they entitled to drink but they do not have to pay as well since they are hiking the great appalachian trail.......my observation is that there are more trouble makers and users on the trail each passing year just like there are trouble makers at the occupy wall street and oakland..the majority are good folk but then there a small bunch that comes along and breaks the rules on purpose.....

Trailbender
11-04-2011, 10:34
and that is no lie, not only are they entitled to drink but they do not have to pay as well since they are hiking the great appalachian trail.......my observation is that there are more trouble makers and users on the trail each passing year just like there are trouble makers at the occupy wall street and oakland..the majority are good folk but then there a small bunch that comes along and breaks the rules on purpose.....

I went through Damascus at 10:30 at night, so I missed the Place, not even sure where it was. My headlamp batteries were severely low, so I could barely see. Got water at that spigot in town and went back up the trail, and crashed at the first flat spot I could find. Went to the subway the next day, and resupplied at that dollar general. I didn't feel entitled to anything on the AT, I felt very privileged to just be out there.

restless
11-04-2011, 11:56
There is only one dog allowed at The Place and even in some of the churches here in Damascus and that would be my Sally!

Why the exception? According to this thread, no dogs mean no dogs. The only exception I might see would be if you are a police officer and Sally is a working dog.

LDog
11-04-2011, 12:02
Heh, apparently Sally is entitled.

Lone Wolf
11-04-2011, 12:07
Why the exception? According to this thread, no dogs mean no dogs. The only exception I might see would be if you are a police officer and Sally is a working dog.


Heh, apparently Sally is entitled.TOW is kidding of course. would be great if the the local LEOs ran drug dogs thru there more often

restless
11-04-2011, 17:33
TOW is kidding of course. would be great if the the local LEOs ran drug dogs thru there more often

Think of all the additional revenue Damascus could generate!

Lone Wolf
11-04-2011, 20:17
Think of all the additional revenue Damascus could generate!they generate nothing off hikers as it is. it's all about the creeper trail bikers

Crazy Larry #1
11-07-2011, 14:16
Why the exception? According to this thread, no dogs mean no dogs. The only exception I might see would be if you are a police officer and Sally is a working dog.Because Sally is a Trail Legend, she has hiked the entire width of the trail several hundred times. Sally even goes to The Place sometimes by herself just to check on things when Lone Wolf and I do not feel like it. I put one them radio collars on her so I can communicate with her as well. When she gets there she'll bark once to let me know everything is okay, but if she barks twice then that means trouble and I usually give her the command to tear up some hiker butt!

Now that's why. Anymore questions?

Crazy Larry #1
11-07-2011, 14:17
they generate nothing off hikers as it is. it's all about the creeper trail bikersYep and the section hikers who come thru here as well as fishermen and hunters and motorcyclists.....

Hikerhead
11-07-2011, 15:42
they generate nothing off hikers as it is. it's all about the creeper trail bikers

I can't imagine any hiker coming into Damascus and not eating at one or your eateries at least once, probably 3 or 4 times before leaving town. And also buying supplies. And section hikers paying for shuttles, buying gas and also eating in town. I would think that hikers add a lot to that towns economy during the hiking season.

Gray Blazer
11-08-2011, 08:56
Dot's at least. I can't count the # of times hikers said here they're gonna treat Damascus' #1 son to a beer right there on the AT.

Hoofit
11-08-2011, 12:14
Why do the residents of Damascus stay if it's so bad?
They can move on just like anyone else
I guess they're just set in their ways.....
There's plenty of places in Damascus making good money out of the hikers or else they would just close up for a couple of weeks over 'Traildays'
Seems to me they get off on complaining a little too much
Most hikers are good folk and that's a fact
Take a vacation during Traildays if it's that bad

Captain Blue
11-08-2011, 14:12
The 2011 Thru Hikers Companion still calls Damascus "the friendliest town on the Trail”. I remember in 1996 during my first section hike through town it really was a friendly town. Today that claim is debatable.

Cookerhiker
11-08-2011, 14:35
The 2011 Thru Hikers Companion still calls Damascus "the friendliest town on the Trail”. I remember in 1996 during my first section hike through town it really was a friendly town. Today that claim is debatable.

Perhaps so - the few times I've been to Damascus outside of Trail Days, I thought the town was pretty friendly.

But given the abuse hikers have committed at The Place, I wouldn't be surprised if the town's legendary friendliness may have tempered.

Lone Wolf
11-08-2011, 14:38
Perhaps so - the few times I've been to Damascus outside of Trail Days, I thought the town was pretty friendly.

But given the abuse hikers have committed at The Place, I wouldn't be surprised if the town's legendary friendliness may have tempered.townsfolk are still friendly but i ain't so much

Hoofit
11-08-2011, 14:51
Had this wife once - man, was she a DOG!
But give her credit, she sure SERVICED me good...
Used to drag her around on all fours
Guess I'll have to leave her home this year?

p.s. If she reads this, guess who'll be in the doghouse?!