Slackpackers vs. Backpackers

[Bloodroot]

The purpose of this thread is to not judge certain hikers/backpackers....Should slackpackers who hike the entirety of the AT truly be considered a thru-hiker? I know some of these people have disabilities/medical conditions that require them conduct this way in order to complete. And there are those who do it out of pure laziness. I personally believe in the old saying, "Hike your own hike", but I am sure many out there feel that people who conduct hikes in this manner damage the thru-hiker reputation.

[Dances with Mice]

I am sure many out there feel that people who conduct hikes in this manner damage the thru-hiker reputation.
What reputation is that?

[java]

.... And there are those who do it out of pure laziness. I personally believe in the old saying, "Hike your own hike", but I am sure many out there feel that people who conduct hikes in this manner damage the thru-hiker reputation.
Laziness? Are you serious? Thru-hiking the AT with or without a pack is a serious feat for anyone. I don't care you hike with van-support at every road crossing, or a 70 lb pack full of bear canisters and flare guns, you walk from Georgia to Maine (or sobo or flip-flop) that's a thru-hike.
I'm sure you'll find that slackpacking doesn't make much of a difference in how you feel in the long run anyways.

[Bloodroot]

The reputation of doing a thru-hike without the aid of others. Maybe the definition "thru-hiker" should have been posted?

[Lone Wolf]

Can of friggin worms has been opened! :D If your pack weighs under 35# then you ain't a backpacker.

[TedB]

Get over it!

:)

[smokymtnsteve]

Can of friggin worms has been opened! :D If your pack weighs under 35# then you ain't a backpacker.


I agree, you gotta have a frying pan and coffee pot. :D

[Frosty]

The reputation of doing a thru-hike without the aid of others. I know what you mean about cheating using the aid of others. Do you believe that some hikers even have people back home mail them packages with food and supplies! Can you believe it? It's true, though. Other hikers rely on the aid of shuttle drivers, grocery store workers, lodging operators, etc etc to complete their hikes.

As you say, this is killing the reputations of REAL THRU-HIKERS, who start at Springer with all the gear and food they need for the entire hike, and don't rely on the aid of others for their hike.

Me, I figure my starting pack weight will be about 6850 pounds, what with all the food and fuel, not to mention an extra pair of boots. (No way will I rely on some outfitter to get me a pair partway through my hike. Self reliant, that's me.)

I'm starting at Springer on March 20, but I have to start for Springer in a couple days. No way will I rely on the aid of some bus driver to get me to Springer. Of course, the food and fuel needed to get me to Springer will up my pack weight to 13,825 pounds, but what am I going to do? Rely on the aid of others? Never!

[Bloodroot]

I know what you mean about cheating using the aid of others. Do you believe that some hikers even have people back home mail them packages with food and supplies! Can you believe it? It's true, though. Other hikers rely on the aid of shuttle drivers, grocery store workers, lodging operators, etc etc to complete their hikes.

As you say, this is killing the reputations of REAL THRU-HIKERS, who start at Springer with all the gear and food they need for the entire hike, and don't rely on the aid of others for their hike.

Me, I figure my starting pack weight will be about 6850 pounds, what with all the food and fuel, not to mention an extra pair of boots. (No way will I rely on some outfitter to get me a pair partway through my hike. Self reliant, that's me.)

I'm starting at Springer on March 20, but I have to start for Springer in a couple days. No way will I rely on the aid of some bus driver to get me to Springer. Of course, the food and fuel needed to get me to Springer will up my pack weight to 13,825 pounds, but what am I going to do? Rely on the aid of others? Never!
Alrighty...lets go this route. Assuming you know what "slackpacking" means.....I was refering "aiding" as in aiding the hiker along by using a tag-along vehicle as a mobile trail house. Sorry I wasn't specific enough for those who decide not to read in between the lines.

[Flash Hand]

I almost always agree with L. Wolf and also like his attitude about the hiking. I thought maybe I should change my trail name to L. Wolf Jr. :banana

Anyway, according to Glossary index in ATC's Thru Hiking Companion Book, and tell me what Purist meants?

I am a Purist thru hiker. I must walk on every milimeter of Appalachian Trail. I must carry my backpack. I must go to the full 2,174 miles. I don't skip some miles. Its all up to people's preference. According to L. Wolf, 's if its under 35 lbs, its not considered backpacking, great! I brought 55 lbs with me everyday and I felt great about it because I know I didn't cheat :clap

I am not here to tell others that they have to follow up the definition of the glossary found in the companion book but I am the one that want to try the real adventure.

I don't use mail drops but indeed sending unnecessary supplies back home. I mailed over weight digital camera back to my friend to hold it out until I reached half point of AT and on Mt. Katahdin.

Slackpacker, IN MY OPINION, cheat a little bit. :D

Flash Hand :jump

[MedicineMan]

well i'm no backpacker :)

good one Frosty! and yep like you Flash-Hand I'm almost always in agreement with L.Wolf

bottom line is the fact that it's just walking through the woods, any major effort to change that is BS, any effort to aggrandize it is the same.

[Lone Wolf]

Aggrandize. Had to look that one up. :D I ain't college learned like you and B. Jack. Anyway on my first thru-hike in 86 my trail name was The Yankee Slackpacker. Slackpacking then meant carrying a big ass pack, goin slow and less than 10 miles. One always carried extra chow so you could take a "zero" in the woods. Nobody had no stinkin itinerary. I AM a slackpacker. My reputation sucks!

[Burn]

on trail no one really cares. honestly. no one cares if yer there for a weekend, a month a 100 miles or the whole *** **** thing. yer just a band of brothers or gang of fools enjoying the moment. you'll see after a few weeks that the social issues you worry about before your trail experience won't mean squat once you are out there.

folks who started with me, a guy who didn't finish, are contactiong me now after they finished. so after trail it doesn't mean squat either.

PS i was pure as lily white snow for roughly 800+ miles, most of my buds were slacking or skipping entire sections. It didn't mean squat. we still enjoy each others fire side BS.

[Frosty]

Aggrandize. Had to look that one up. I think it's those little rocks you put in cement to make it concrete.

[Blue Jay]

I personally believe in the old saying, "Hike your own hike", but I am sure many out there feel that people who conduct hikes in this manner damage the thru-hiker reputation.

This is possibly the most ludicrous post on this site. First, in one sentence you claim to believe in Hike your own hike then you go on to clearly prove why you do not. If you said, I am a human being but I'm also a fish, it would make as much sense. As for the thruhiker reputation, if reputation is why you hike that is pathetic. Take up Golf and make believe you are Tiger Woods. Burn is correct as usual, this issue is worthless.

[MOWGLI]

Every year it is the same thing. All the planning issues have been beaten to death, and people are grasping at straws to come up with something interesting & trail related to discuss here. I did it in late '99, early '00 before my thru-hike, albeit on Trailplace. This topic is about as silly as some of the ones that I brought up before my hike.

For those hiking in '05, remember that you can't plan for everything, and you also can't understand what the trail is like from an internet forum.

Happy Trails.

[kentucky]

Well I would have to agree with L.Wolf on that one!When I started hiking the AT I would say I carried maybe 20 pounds I really didnt know squat about Backpacking or slackpacking ,I mean I was lost I was wearing a pair of overalls the first few days,Thrue the years I have carried everthing I need and more,you cant really compare slackpacking to backpacking to me its a whole different ball game!just my opinion! kentucky:D

[Bloodroot]

This is possibly the most ludicrous post on this site. First, in one sentence you claim to believe in Hike your own hike then you go on to clearly prove why you do not. If you said, I am a human being but I'm also a fish, it would make as much sense. As for the thruhiker reputation, if reputation is why you hike that is pathetic. Take up Golf and make believe you are Tiger Woods. Burn is correct as usual, this issue is worthless.
Lets talk funny. First of all I stated that I believe in, "Hiking your own hike." Bravo! You seemed to read into that well, I am impressed. Then I go on to say, "I am sure there are MANY PEOPLE (see this! no where stating this is what I think or believe) who feel that conducting hikes in this manner damage the thru hiker reputation." Amazing how some people are so quick to criticise and insult without taking a chance to interpret.

Indeed, maybe this post is stepping on some toes...Surely this was not my sole intention. Thought it was interesting topic that might draw some interesting points of view. My intentions were to stay out of this and to see what others thought about the subject. Of course I might as well been throwing myself out to the wolves. I know that now.

"For those hiking in '05, remember that you can't plan for everything, and you also can't understand what the trail is like from an internet forum" (MOWGLI16)
"you'll see after a few weeks that the social issues you worry about before your trail experience won't mean squat once you are out there."(BURN)

Sure you can't plan for everything! Thanks for the advice but I have been on the trail and many other trails enough to understand what it is like. I don't derive my thoughts and actions based soley on what everyone here thinks. I'm a big boy, having no social issues? Only issue I have is getting the hell outta Iraq and getting back to the thing I love the most....

[Youngblood]

Bloodroot,

I am sure you realize that certain topics have been hashed out on this site before. It is okay to rehash them, that is no problem what-so-ever. But, what you may not realize is that there a few topics that get some folks on this site riled up as if you called their momma bad names and common sense, honestly and civility are tossed right out the window and it becomes something like a 'no holes barred, bar room brawl'. What constitues a 'valid' thru-hike is one of them. Sorry you stepped into it, because it is a good question, the problem is that we don't seem to be able to discuss it in a civil and honest manner. The problem isn't you, it's us. Welcome to the club. :)

Youngblood

[Rain Man]

... hike the entirety of the AT ... out of pure laziness.

ROTFLMAO

:jump

Rain Man

.

[MOWGLI]

Only issue I have is getting the hell outta Iraq and getting back to the thing I love the most....

Bloodroot:

I meant you no disrespect. Get home safe.

[Bloodroot]

Bloodroot,

I am sure you realize that certain topics have been hashed out on this site before. It is okay to rehash them, that is no problem what-so-ever. But, what you may not realize is that there a few topics that get some folks on this site riled up as if you called their momma bad names and common sense, honestly and civility are tossed right out the window and it becomes something like a 'no holes barred, bar room brawl'. What constitues a 'valid' thru-hike is one of them. Sorry you stepped into it, because it is a good question, the problem is that we don't seem to be able to discuss it in a civil and honest manner. The problem isn't you, it's us. Welcome to the club. :)

Youngblood
WOW! Thanks for some reasoning. Its nice to hear a civilized response for change. Does Whiteblaze post a "Blazer of the Week" award? If so I am putting you in for it:) . Yeh I can see now I might as well have posted a thread on Bush vs. Kerry or Aethism vs. Christianity, probably wouldn't have not gotten nearly the stinging replies.
:welcome to the club? Thanks. But as attroll has posted on the homepage, bickering needs to cease. Surely I can see how this could would scare off new members such as myself. Luckily I can handle it. I'll just consider it as part of my initiation. But after viewing pretty much all threads here, seems like a few here could spend less time dwelling on AT issues and getting out and actually enjoying the hobby and way of life we all share.

Rain man...get over it bud!

[Frosty]

Lets talk funny. First of all I stated that I believe in, "Hiking your own hike." Bravo! You seemed to read into that well, I am impressed. Then I go on to say, "I am sure there are MANY PEOPLE (see this! no where stating this is what I think or believe) who feel that conducting hikes in this manner damage the thru hiker reputation." Amazing how some people are so quick to criticise and insult without taking a chance to interpret. Earlier you said we were refusing to read between the lines, now we're not interpreting. Help us out here with this interpreting stuff:

1. Exactly what is this hiker reputation, and how will my (or your) reputation be damaged by what someone else does?

2. Who are these MANY PEOPLE. I "interpret" this "MANY PEOPLE" statement as you not wanting to say what you think, and made up the fact that many others believe it. So, correct me if I'm wrong: who are they?

3. You point out that you are not saying what you believe. Why not? What do you believe? Do you have an issue with people getting help on the trail? Is the help you have an issue with restricted to shuttles (getting dropped off and picked up), or does it extend to maildrops and restaurants (having someone cook for you).

4. Many slackpackers carry a lot of stuff (heavy camera equipment, for instance), and many thruhikers are ultralight. If an unltralight hiker carries a 14 pound pack, and a slackpacker carries a 16 pound pack, which one is damaging the reputation of the other?

If you would help out by telling us the answers, we could interpret better, and put this issue to rest.

Thanks

[Bloodroot]

Bloodroot:

I meant you no disrespect. Get home safe.
Thanks. Hope you decide to spend some time on the trail next season. If so, and you get caught in the worst "gulley wusher", and walk up on a hiker smiling ear to ear, enjoying the feeling of rain and humidity..then you'll know it's me. After being over here I can do without the skeeters though ;) .

[shades of blue]

I think whether you slackpack or not...blue blaze or not depends on the reason you are on the trail. Some people are on the trail to prove something to themselves. Some people want the physical endurance thing, some people are out there for nature and peace....some people might be trying to find themselves, some might be doing it for recognition from peers or the ATC. Why you or anyone else does the hike doesn't matter to me. I mean, it might make a great conversation over a campfire, and it could be really interesting, but why you do something doesn't diminish my hike, or make mine better or worse, it's my hike.

If someone wants to slackpack, that is their business, it doesn't make them less than me...or better than me. They are chosing a different way to walk the same path. The ATC doesn't define thru-hikers, but as a 2000 miler, slackpacking is allowed. That's the ATC's point of view, but in the end, unless you are going for the certificate, does it really matter? Why worry about other people's rules, if it isn't hurting anyone, and isn't illegal?

What I think could hurt thru-hikers reputations is how they interact with other hikers, townfolk, hostel owners and the like. Are you good to the environment, do you LNT? We should be good stewards of the trail. To me, that is far more important than if you took a blue blaze to the summit of a mountain, or if you slackpacked some miles.

One more thing in my epistle here.....Bloodroot, you should decide what kind of hike YOU want to hike. Figure out why you want to do it that way. Then when you are tempted to do something that is against your own rules, you can decide if it is worth it. Hey, you might even change your mind about your hike half way through...that is your choice, and if you do....we won't tell anyone.

[Bloodroot]

Earlier you said we were refusing to read between the lines, now we're not interpreting. Help us out here with this interpreting stuff:

1. Exactly what is this hiker reputation, and how will my (or your) reputation be damaged by what someone else does?

2. Who are these MANY PEOPLE. I "interpret" this "MANY PEOPLE" statement as you not wanting to say what you think, and made up the fact that many others believe it. So, correct me if I'm wrong: who are they?

3. You point out that you are not saying what you believe. Why not? What do you believe? Do you have an issue with people getting help on the trail? Is the help you have an issue with restricted to shuttles (getting dropped off and picked up), or does it extend to maildrops and restaurants (having someone cook for you).

4. Many slackpackers carry a lot of stuff (heavy camera equipment, for instance), and many thruhikers are ultralight. If an unltralight hiker carries a 14 pound pack, and a slackpacker carries a 16 pound pack, which one is damaging the reputation of the other?

If you would help out by telling us the answers, we could interpret better, and put this issue to rest.

Thanks
(Laughing). I don't think I am going to get anything done.

I am assuming everyone has some kind of variation what they think is a valid thru-hike. Obviously this was what I was trying to achieve in this post. Saying this, some (George Bush for all I know!) might feel there is some kind of standard a thru-hiker should uphold. Your right! I probably could have worded this thread differently. Live and learn. Personally, I feel anyone who walks the entirety of the AT is a thru-hiker. Some might lug in a pack and stay and others might have their mommas meeting them at every intersection and shuttling them to a hotel. How that person completes the hike lies within the individual. As long as those legs have endured the mileage it is OK in my book.

[Blue Jay]

Lets talk funny. First of all I stated that I believe in, "Hiking your own hike." Bravo! You seemed to read into that well, I am impressed. Then I go on to say, "I am sure there are MANY PEOPLE (see this! no where stating this is what I think or believe) who feel that conducting hikes in this manner damage the thru hiker reputation." Amazing how some people are so quick to criticise and insult without taking a chance to interpret.

I interpreted it correctly. Using the phrase MANY PEOPLE, is like going to the doctor and saying, "My friend has a rash, could you give me something to put on it".

[Bloodroot]

LMAO....POOF!Blue Jay, fly away....

[A-Train]

Wow! I saw this post last night and didn't respond-hours later there are 27 posts. I knew people would take the bait...

For once, Blue Jay makes all the sense in the world. If you say you believe in HYOH Bloodroot, than what does it really matter what others think about this ludicrous conversation? You need to further learn the true meaning of the overused, under-appreciated term that has little meaning to a lot of people.

This argument came up months ago, so if you really care what people think, maybe you should look thru the archives

[max patch]

For once, Blue Jay makes all the sense in the world.

A sign that the apocalypse is upon us?

[smokymtnsteve]

A sign that the apocalypse is upon us?


the end of time is NEAR..it's getting closer every minute...

From the Gospel of ABBEY!

"We are preoccupied with time. If we could learn to love space as deeply as we are now obsessed with time, we might discover a new meaning to the phrase to live like men."

THANKS BE TO ABBEY!

[LIhikers]

I'm not yet a thru hiker but would consider myself a long distance hiker. As for my/our reputation, don't worry, most people think we're crazy !!!! :banana

[Bloodroot]

Wow! I saw this post last night and didn't respond-hours later there are 27 posts. I knew people would take the bait...

For once, Blue Jay makes all the sense in the world. If you say you believe in HYOH Bloodroot, than what does it really matter what others think about this ludicrous conversation? You need to further learn the true meaning of the overused, under-appreciated term that has little meaning to a lot of people.

This argument came up months ago, so if you really care what people think, maybe you should look thru the archives
Maybe I'll just have to check the archive out then. Your input, which I might add wasn't needed. It doesn't matter, so don't take it so personally.

[Nightwalker]

The reputation of doing a thru-hike without the aid of others. Maybe the definition "thru-hiker" should have been posted?Pass every white blaze (save for blues in weird weather), in any order, in one year.

That's kind of the accepted standard.

[Nightwalker]

...and yep like you Flash-Hand I'm almost always in agreement with L.Wolf.Me too, when I ain't wantin' to whomple him a new knot or two. But don't tell the old buzzard, cause a swelled head might give him another stroke, and it takes long enough to get your brain un-fried from the first one. (trust me on this one!)

:D
Frank

[Nightwalker]

Personally, I feel anyone who walks the entirety of the AT is a thru-hiker.Amazingly, lots of other folks feel the same way.

Part of HYOH includes trying to avoid letting the "helpful souls" (yeah, right) get on your nerves.

:)

[Youngblood]

Definitions for hiking related terms.

There are definitions found in several places and as a lot of us have found out, they don't always agree, especially on the exact definition of a thru-hiker. I recently noticed that ALDHA has published the 2004 Thru-Hikers Companion on line and it has a section for definition of terms. It can be found at http://www.aldha.org/companyn/appndx04.pdf . For thru-hiker, they say "Thru-hiker-- On the A.T., a hiker who is hiking from Maine to Georgia or Georgia to Maine in one trip or, generally accepted, a person who has done same. Also "Thru."" For purist, they say "Purist-- A hiker who makes a covenant with him- or herself prior to the hike and then keeps the covenant during the entire hike. Most commonly, the covenant is to hike past every white blaze or to carry a backpack for the entire distance, or both."

But, not everyone on Whiteblaze accepts this definition. In fact, if you go to the Information Button on the top of this page, you will find "Trail Terms and Slang". I am not aware of its origins, but if you look up thru-hiker, it says "Thru-hiker is traditionally a person who is attempting to become a 2,000-Miler in a single, continuous journey by putting on a backpack, leaving from one terminus of the Trail, and hiking essentially unassisted to the other terminus." And for 2,000-Miler, it says "2,000-Miler is a person who has hiked the entire distance between termini of the official (white-blazed) A.T., either by thru-hiking or section hiking." Also, for purist, it says "Purist the style of thru-hiking that requires you to pass by every white blaze (or whatever color for that trail) without taking shortcuts or loop trails that lead back to the main trail unless you go back to where you left the main trail to get that missed section. Also know as Pointless Ups and Downs."


The governing body of the AT is the ATC and they decline to define thru-hiker but do have a more complex definition for a 2,000-Miler than is listed above.

For some reason, there are those who want to argue as to what constitutes a valid thru-hike and impose their opinion as fact, which would void the legitimacy of many other folks thru-hike. Some folks get upset and they (we) argue. This goes on without really settling anything until everyone tires of it... and then it comes up again and we do it again.

If all this sounds foolish, there is a good reason... it is. :)

Youngblood

[Rain Man]

If all this sounds foolish, there is a good reason... it is. :)

You got that right!!!
:sun
Rain Man

.

[SGT Rock]

The truth is Bloodroot is no matter how you hike, there will always be someone saying you did it too easy because _____, and your hike is a true thru-hike...

They will fill in the blank themselves. If you decide to slack a certain area, you may not go back to the trail from a shelter on the same trail you left it on, thus missing 200' of AT, you may flip-flop, or any other thing that someone else considers less than worthy. The more of these "rules" you follow, the less people you may offend, but then you are hiking to please other people, not hiking how you want to hike. The best etiquette to follow is to not worry about how others are doing their thing, just worry about yourself and how you hike.

When I was a PLDC instructor, I had three rules I would tell my students at the beginning of a cycle that they should follow to make them get along better at the Academy:

1. Don't worry about the other monkeys in their trees.

2. Don't throw coconuts at the other monkeys.

3. No sniveling!

Think about it

[rickb]

You forgot monkey see, monkey do.

Rick ;-).

[Youngblood]

Sarge,

I think you left out the word 'not' in your first sentence? As in "there will always be someone saying you did it too easy because _____, and your hike is not a true thru-hike... "

[SGT Rock]

Yes, you are right. I was in between emptying boxes and was in too big a hurry to proof read my post. Doh!

[minnesotasmith]

Whether or not someone needed to slackpack or not (severe physical limitations vs. short time available for hiking/unwilling to carry the weight of a pack), IMO they are not engaging in the whole through-hiking experience. It's like major-league blue-blazing IMO. After all, carrying a pack is not just about the extra effort, but the planning, organizing, decision-making, etc., that goes into the extra measure of self-reliance that differentiates a backpacking through-hiker from a slackpacking one.

Now, would I volunteer this opinion to a slackpacking hiker I met on the AT? No. Would I say this as a reply to a slackpacker who politely asked my opinion? Perhaps, but probably not. Would I tell this to a backpacking through-hiker who asked me? Yes, but I would hope that I would couch it in terms of how I decided my hike would be more meaningful to me. Let others HTOH; after all, slackpacking thrus are way ahead of the great majority who never set foot upon the AT or other long trail as a hiker even once in their lives for a second.

[smokymtnsteve]

. After all, carrying a pack is not just about the extra effort, but the planning, organizing, decision-making, etc.,
.

oh come on MS, we can tell you have never tried to plan, organize, decide, how to arrange a slack pack section, slack packing take much MORE planning organizing,a nd decision making than just a simple put supplies in your pack and walk,, :D

[Youngblood]

I found that thru-hiking the AT was a long, long, long hike and I changed my mind as I got experience as to exactly how I wanted to do it. Some things that I thought before hand would be important, didn't seem that way anymore. Slackpacking was one of them. It actually was kind of nice to slackpack some because it broke up the monotony of backpacking everyday. In my case I was going back to the same hostel/motel for a few days with some of the same folks and it was a nice change to travel fast and light and come back to civilization with pancakes, cheeseburgers, a shower, a comfy bed, TV and such for a few days. It helps to make a thru-hike fun and more interesting... and after all, thats what it was all about for me.

Youngblood

[Desert Lobster]

whether you like that fact or not. You can hyoh or whatever, but the slackpacker is still trying to make it easier on themselves and the hiker carrying a full pack needs to exert more effort. Folks sure get defensive when people write something that they feel diminishes their accomplishment of hiking the whole AT.

[Bloodroot]

Just a quick apology to those that I might have offended by the wording of this thread. I assure you this was not my intentions.

Thanks to those who helped me enlighten my thought process in this subject.

[NotYet]

I love day hiking. I love backpacking. I love camping. I love trails and all they have to offer. I especially love experiencing time with nature whenever posssible.

I try not to worry if someone else wants to "thru-backpack" or "thru-slackpack" or "section-day hike" or "section-backpack" or, or, or... Instead, I wish them well, and hope they have a meaningful and enjoyable experience, whether it's for the afternoon or for months at a time.

Much of the time I don't really even know why I'm out there in the woods. Therefore, I don't think I should presume to tell others why they are (or if they are or aren't doing their hike "correctly")!

p.s. It seems to me that, at least among the people that I know, most people who have hiked the entire AT don't really worry about this question as much as those who haven't.

[sierraDoug]

It ain't spelled "thru" in my dictionary. It's spelled "through". So, if you're all through with this topic, let's thro it out. :D

[Blue Jay]

It ain't spelled "thru" in my dictionary. It's spelled "through". So, if you're all through with this topic, let's thro it out. :D

Actually the spelling thru, pertaining to hiking, has been in common usage for many years.

[smokymtnsteve]

I always thought you were a through hiker when you were finished hiking, this year I walked from GA to VA, then it got to HOT, so I was through hiking until the weather cools off. ;)

[aaronthebugbuffet]

wow, what a totally useless thread.

[Blue Jay]

You can hyoh or whatever, but the slackpacker is still trying to make it easier on themselves and the hiker carrying a full pack needs to exert more effort. Folks sure get defensive when people write something that they feel diminishes their accomplishment of hiking the whole AT.

Yet one more, "You can hike your own hike, BUT" I'm better than someone who carries less weight than me. Yes, some people get defensive when you diminish hikers. You want to compete at weight lifting, go right ahead. I'm sure there is a gym near you.

[broodX]

On My thru hike this year I slacpacked several times for varying reasons. One was to let my body heal from the stress of carrying a pack (to let my 360 degree chafe heal.) while still maintaining my forward progress, To come back to a hostel that I really enjoyed without falling behind my crew, and while waiting for mail without taking a zero. Oh yeah and out of pure laziness once or twice. Listen slacking doesnt make you any less of a hiker, the important part is hat you are out there and enjoying your experience:sun

[Crash! Bang!]

blue jay, if you truly believed in HYOH, you wouldnt be ranting and raving every time someone "diminishes" you. i think that was the third (that ive seen) poster in the last two days that youve snarled at over this issue. are you the sworn defender of HYOH, or are you just insecure about YOH?

[Frosty]

Just a quick apology to those that I might have offended by the wording of this thread. I assure you this was not my intentions. Yes, I have been there myself. The internet has allowed me to "meet" many, many people with whom I share a common interest, but conversation via internet, without using facial expression and voice inflection, is often trying for me. Or rather, trying for the people whom I annoy with unintentionally brusque, defensive or offensive posts.

With all its communication faults, though, the internet is still a great place to share information.

[Bloodroot]

Frosty: Thanks. I agree communicating on here there are definitely flaws in understanding the emotion behind text. By this it shows me some of you nature, you being able to step back and think, "Yeh I was firm in my responses, rightfully so to some regards, but hey I have been there before". I admit I never really thought about what I was writing, just wrote before I thought. So afterwards I suspected I would have to account for the contradictions in my question.

Blue Jay: I do have to admit though....I have to agree with Crash Bang to a certain extent. Put your fists down man, no one is trying to take anything away from you. I'm sure you are real proud of the history you have had on the trail. Sometimes your gonna face thoughtless questions, believe it or not, that is apart of some peoples learning curve. Constructive criticism (even if it takes a little smack on the ass to get the point across), yes......"snarling" insults, no.

[SGT Rock]

Good point Bloodroot. A young hiker once asked me on top of a mountain in the middle of a hike if I had ever killed someone in my job. I just told him that it was not a polite question to ask, that a gentleman would probably say no even if he had, and that some people that hadn't would say they had since they feel like they have to distort their own records to feel valid. I told him he also shouldn't take to asking such things of soldiers since a lot of them have mixed feelings about that and their religious or personal convictions. My point is sometimes we have to educate the people that ask the question as to why a question isn't always a polite one.

My grandmother always said never ask a lady their weight or age too ;)

[The Old Fhart]

Frosty-"I'm starting at Springer on March 20, but I have to start for Springer in a couple days. No way will I rely on the aid of some bus driver to get me to Springer. Of course, the food and fuel needed to get me to Springer will up my pack weight to 13,825 pounds, but what am I going to do? Rely on the aid of others? Never!" Frosty, now you are just being silly. Use your brain and hike southbound instead of starting at Springer. This way you can keep your pack weight under 7000 pounds and save about 6 months. That is, unless you really want to do a YOYO! :sun Good post. --From 20 miles (1 hiking day) north of you in Gonic, TOF

[Blue Jay]

blue jay, if you truly believed in HYOH, you wouldnt be ranting and raving every time someone "diminishes" you. i think that was the third (that ive seen) poster in the last two days that youve snarled at over this issue. are you the sworn defender of HYOH, or are you just insecure about YOH?

Yes, I am the sworn defender of the vast majority of hikers vs. anal purists like yourself. You not only diminish me but many people I know and care about. I'll give you some examples. When I got back from my first completion (relatively pure) I got a job with Eastern Mountain Sports. They told me one of the other associates was a thru. I was thrilled when our shifts matched and I got to talk to her. She told me she was in fact not a thru as she had missed a few miles, went back and got them the next year but still would never be able to consider herself a thru. She was very upset about that. Some scum like you had ruined a piece of her hike. This year I was passing out beer at a shelter in Mass. and talked to a lady who had done the same thing and was completing the small piece she had missed. She was absolutly delighted not by the beer but because I considered her a thru.
Granted maybe I should develop a thick skin about you dream destroyers. I don't think so. Go back to bragging about your purity.

[Crash! Bang!]

"anal purists like yourself."
ive already demonstrated that im not really a purist due to some of my minor transgressions

" Some scum like you"
calling me scum because we disagree is pretty scummy in itself. however, im starting to expect no less from you.

"Granted maybe I should develop a thick skin about you dream destroyers."
yes, you should stop whining. part of HYOH is not caring what others think of your hike. until you can achieve that, youre not a HYOH'er. oh dear, there i go being an anal purist again.

"Go back to bragging about you(r) purity."
ill grant you that maybe i could have worded some things a little more clearly, but i assure you it was not my intention to brag. i will admit, it did kind of annoy me to see a bunch of hikers who had never thru-ed saying thru-ing is easier than sectioning. like you (shudder), i felt my hike somewhat diminished, since i had just completed a thru a couple days earlier. it was a visceral, gut reaction and i was perhaps too hasty to respond.

you interpret my words as "im a thru-hiker, so im better than everyone". that was not what i wanted to get across. one of the arguments that i presented was, until someone has done a thru-hike, they really have no basis of comparison on the thru-hike vs sectioning debate. i can see how i would have come across as egotistical on that debate, even to ppl not hyper-sensitive. i apologize to others on this board for doing so. you chose to call me names and get personal, so you just get whacked on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.

the second argument was, in general, what defines a thru, and specifically, are yellow-blazers thrus? the main point i wanted to get across is that we need to have a working definition that we can all agree upon. things can get confusing when ppl have differing definitions for one word. its just simplest, when defining some terms, to stay as close as possible to the "purist" aspect, or else we open another can of worms and debate endlessly on how much yellow-blazing, blue-blazing, etc is allowable on a thru. i know some ppl actually enjoy that, i enjoy these debates as mental exercises, but ya gotta draw the line somewhere.

it is my wish that you reply with civility and restraint. if not, maybe you need another walk in the woods.:D

[orangebug]

... one of the arguments that i presented was, until someone has done a thru-hike, they really have no basis of comparison on the thru-hike vs sectioning debate. ...
Of course, until you have section hiked about 7-8 years, you don't have the ability to understand how superior us Section Hikers are. :banana

[smokymtnsteve]

here is the difference,

I' say I like to hike with a coffee press, BUT, HYOH

some others would say

HYOH, BUT, if you carry a coffe press you aren't a real LT. weight thru-hiker


so it is a matter of where your BUT is,

[Frosty]

Frosty, now you are just being silly. C'est moi :)


From 20 miles (1 hiking day) north of you in GonicWow. I'm constantly amazed at how many New Hampshirites there are on Whiteblaze.

We should organize some hikes. The one I did with Attroll, Poison Ivy and Walkin Wally was a blast.

[Crash! Bang!]

"Of course, until you have section hiked about 7-8 years, you don't have the ability to understand how superior us Section Hikers are"

i forget who it was, but one of the posters did alter my opinion on that issue. i now recognize that sectioning would be physically harder, due to having to go thru the break-in period every time. having gone thru the break-in period once, i would not want to do it 4, 5, 8, or 20 times. i still hold that a thru is mentally harder for the same reasons that this poster put forth. logistically, it would depend on the individual, and it would also depend on what aspect youre looking at. it would generally be easier to drop out of your life for, say, a month at a time, than would to drop out of your life for half a year. howevers, thrus only have to do it once and done, while sectioners have to make their travel plans 4, 10, or however many times. when its all said and done, they both have my equal respect. and you know, i dont really feel like ive done anything spectacular (yes blue jay, im being serious here) its just something i did for 6 months. putting up with my last job for 4 years tested my patience much more and was more of a herculean feat
:jump

[Desert Lobster]

The whole point I made is:

If you INTENTIONALLY avoid carrying weight to make things easier for yourself, as in leaving most weight behind at a hostel when slackpacking, then you have made this part of your hike easier than a hiker who carries their full load.

Note, I am not comparing folks who don't slackpack but carry very different weights, such as a 20 pound pack or 70 pound pack. Total weight carried is not the issue, not carrying your full pack is.

Is the AT experience diminished by making big miles and getting a ride back to a hostel for the night whereas you would most likely have had to stay in the woods if you had carried your full pack?

What does the increase in slackpacking say about America(foreigners slackpack too) in general? Are individuals getting softer and very quick to do things the easiest way possible if they have the opportunity?

[Dances with Mice]

...snip...

...Is the AT experience diminished....

... Are individuals getting softer and very quick to do things the easiest way possible if they have the opportunity?

Each hiker's experiences are their own. There is no "AT experience" to diminish.

Kinda sounds like the subject of a biography I just finished - guy by the name of Ben Franklin? He was always looking for the easiest way to do something.

[smokymtnsteve]

If you don't make yourself organic whole grain pancakes and french-pressed organic peruvian coffee every morning then your AT experience is VERY diminished, ( as is your life) BUT hyoh.

oh yea, and a warm flavored soy milk at night before bed is a creamy, dreamy experience,,,don't hike without it. :D

[Frosty]

The whole point I made is:

If you INTENTIONALLY avoid carrying weight to make things easier for yourself, as in leaving most weight behind at a hostel when slackpacking, then you have made this part of your hike easier than a hiker who carries their full load.Leave weight behind to make it easier? Well, yeah. Why do you think I replaced my stainless steel cookset with Titanium, my 7 pound pack with a 2 pound one, my 4 pound tent with a 1 pound tarp? It was to intentionally leave weight behind to make the hike easier.

I haven't thru-hiked the AT yet (Next Year!), but during the backpacks that I have done, I haven't heard any of this talk at shelters. I'm hoping the AT will not be packed with people accusing each other of diminishing other people's hikes (which I still don't know what that means, BTW).

[Blue Jay]

I haven't thru-hiked the AT yet (Next Year!), but during the backpacks that I have done, I haven't heard any of this talk at shelters. I'm hoping the AT will not be packed with people accusing each other of diminishing other people's hikes (which I still don't know what that means, BTW).

Don't worry about it, you rarely hear purist talk on the Trail or in Shelters. I was out two months this year and never heard a word about it. They just look down on you from the heights in silence, kind of like a vulture. It only comes up when they are not face to face. It's much safer that way.

[Bloodroot]

Just a question to some of you veterans. How long has this been an issue (Purists vs. slackpacking)? Seems obvious that years ago a Purist person/group probably challenged the legitimacy of a thru-hike? Just curious...

[Lone Wolf]

My first thru-hike was in 86. Same BS then.

[Bloodroot]

Lone Wolf: I figured so. Just a guess, but I figured it has been like this since the so-called standards were established. Has it even reached a point where people have questioned Earl Shaffer's thru?

[Crash! Bang!]

"It's much safer that way."

why, would you beat them up?

[Crash! Bang!]

the majority of thrus dont have a problem with slacking as most do it themselves. as far as yellow-blazing, i would say it would be rigidly proportional: those who do it would say its not cheating on a thru, those who dont do it, would say you cant call yourself a thru if you do.

[orangebug]

... Has it even reached a point where people have questioned Earl Shaffer's thru?
You don't get out much, do you.

It was questioned immediately, as several folks felt a thru hike was physically impossible. Earl had to submit photos and other proof of his hike. Since that time, the ATC has figured out that such OCD was a waste of their time and money. They will reward a "2000 miler" rocker, when you submit the request. It is on an honor system. They do not care if you slackpack, race hike, walk barefoot, carry an anvil or section hike over 30 years.

For more information, why don't you check out the ATC.ORG?

[Lone Wolf]

Are you kiddin? Earl was an original blue-blazer.

[Bloodroot]

Orangebug - "you don't get out much do you"?

Well you know your right I don't. Until I joined Whiteblaze I had not discussed or debated anything relating to this website. Truthfully, I probably have never even discussed hiking in general with anyone at all. So yes, consider me niave and virgin to all this. Pretty much all of my life (until the past year), I have lived and backpacked (solo) in the mountains. I have no claim to any well renowned trails and am not a member to any clubs or organizations. I just did it...and didn't talk about it. Never really knew there was a need. The experiences I have had lie deep within myself. I get the feeling now that people are losing the true meaning of why these trails and mountains are so important to us. For me, being out there is not a means of accomplishment, but a means of being one with the thing you have loved and dedicated most of your life to. So for now, joining this website and reading other peoples journals are the only things I have to remind me of the thing I am missing most at home (besides family). Nevertheless, the the answer to your questions is...most definitely, yes.

Thanks for the history lesson OB. For me every little bit helps. Maybe I should research into things more before I ask.

Though joining this website I have learned alot. Nice to finally hear what other people think and the great ideas that are out there. Some really intelligent and compassionate people on here. And I look forward to meeting many of these people on the trail.

[Bloodroot]

.....................

[Crash! Bang!]

It only comes up when they are not face to face. It's much safer that way.kind of like how, from behind the anonymity of an internet persona, youre disparaging and uncivil to everyone here that disagrees with you, but you know if you were like that in person youd be getting your ass kicked daily. its much safer that way.

[Peaks]

the majority of thrus dont have a problem with slacking as most do it themselves. as far as yellow-blazing, i would say it would be rigidly proportional: those who do it would say its not cheating on a thru, those who dont do it, would say you cant call yourself a thru if you do.

I'd say the majority of thru's do at least some slackpacking. At the very least, most people slack up Katahdin.

[Crash! Bang!]

isnt that what i just said? anyway, there was one tool who insisted that he was a "thru-backpacker", not just a thru-hiker, insisted on never slacking, even to the katahdin summit, carried his pack all the way with him on side-trails to water and everywhere else, and scoffed at so-called "town-based" thru-hikers. i only met the guy once, seemed nice enough, but i thought his philosophy was highly anal.

[Youngblood]

the majority of thrus dont have a problem with slacking as most do it themselves. as far as yellow-blazing, i would say it would be rigidly proportional: those who do it would say its not cheating on a thru, those who dont do it, would say you cant call yourself a thru if you do.

There is another side... that hiking the AT is a recreational activity, not a competive one, and it doesn't matter how you hike it. It is not for anyone else to past judgement, hike your own hike AND respect others right to do the same without being belittled.

Youngblood

[Crash! Bang!]

the only time i care is when someone wants to call themselves a thru-hiker. you should actually fit the definition before you call yourself one. im not qualified to be a doctor, so i dont go around telling ppl that i am one. and yes, i know, thats an extreme example, no one will die if a yellowblazer or slackpacker calls themself a thru-hiker. its an analogy. and really, i dont even care all that much, but it just so happend to come up in conversation in one of the threads, and i gave my opinion. so sue me.:banana

[Youngblood]

Whose definition ...yours or maybe the ATC's, ALDHA's, Wingfoot's? Or is there a trail deity that has passed this sacred definition on to you? Yellow blazing, blue blazing, etc can be taken to such extremes that probably no one actually passes these tests, or would really want to hike a trail the length of the AT in that manner. The tests are not appreciated by some folks because they are often applied in a way to belittle people who don't deserve it. I believe it is a recreational activity, I hope everyone enjoys it and I don't think it is right for folks to attempt to pass judgement on other folks hikes in an attempt to belittle it.

Youngblood

[Crash! Bang!]

yea yea yea, blah blah blah, everythings relative, relax a little, ok?

[Crash! Bang!]

Or is there a trail deity that has passed this sacred definition on to you?


Youngbloodand you know, thats another thing. when did we as a society get to the point that whenever someone has a strong opinion theyre automatically accused of thinking theyre better than everyone, think theyre god, etc? its really detrimental to constructive discussion and counter-productive in general. stick to debating the topic and leave the ad hominem attacks out, please.

[Youngblood]

and you know, thats another thing. when did we as a society get to the point that whenever someone has a strong opinion theyre automatically accused thinking theyre better than everyone, think theyre god, etc? its really detrimental to a constructive conversation

Sometimes it happens when one presents their opinion on a subject that not everyone agrees on as if it is an indisputable fact.

[Crash! Bang!]

its called persuasive writing. its done all the time in newspapers and magazines. instead of attacking the personality traits of your opponent, try attacking the points he makes. you might just convince him he was wrong. its already worked once on me by someone who did just that.

[Youngblood]

That is what I've been trying to do. Just out of curiousity, what was it that you changed your mind about?

[Crash! Bang!]

i changed my mind from thru-ing is harder than sectioning to sectioning is harder physically, but thru-ing is still harder mentally

[Youngblood]

CB,

It has been kind of fun chatting with you... and interesting. I need to go make a few phone calls.

Have a nice day... and oh yeah, in case I forgot, congratulations on your thur-hike.

Youngblood

[Crash! Bang!]

but the point i was trying to make here recently was that it makes little difference to me, but if youre asking me, heres my opinion. and i always believe in backing up my opinion to the best of my ability. im sorry if i wounded someones inner child or something. please have your therapist send me the bill.:sun

[Crash! Bang!]

Whose definition ...yours or maybe the ATC's, ALDHA's, Wingfoot's?

Youngbloodthats a legit question, and one that deserves discussion. but not now. i have to go.

[Frosty]

......................

[orangebug]

There is another side... that hiking the AT is a recreational activity, not a competive one, and it doesn't matter how you hike it. It is not for anyone else to past judgement, hike your own hike AND respect others right to do the same without being belittled.

Youngblood
I just wanted to quote you as too many people seem to need to read what you just wrote.

Bill...

[orangebug]

.... i know, thats an extreme example, no one will die if a yellowblazer or slackpacker calls themself a thru-hiker. its an analogy. and really, i dont even care all that much...
Sure that wasn't a metaphor? :banana

[orangebug]

...please have your therapist send me the bill.:sun
It's on the way!
:D

[rickb]

---------------------------------------

[rickb]

"that hiking the AT is a recreational activity, not a competive one, and it doesn't matter how you hike it"

Are you saying that it matters that you hike it at all?

Are you saying that it matters if you hike about 2000 miles, rather than 1000?

If you are, then the question become of not whether you draw a line, but where.

Rick B

[orangebug]

Speaking only for myself, all that matters is that I have fun as long as I want to hike the AT. I'm rather turned off on the idea of a thru hike, given the mental challenge that I keep hearing about. That doesn't sound like fun, but more like survival/endurance/persistance. I enjoy the challenge that is implicit to getting prepped for each section.

I hike to recharge my batteries and to infuse myself with the life blood of something approximating Nature.

So, I really am not into counting miles, except for the day I am on the trail. I'm not particularly after trophies, rockers or recognition. You thru-hikers and ALDHA luminaries can feel free to enjoy your laurels. I'd rather walk past the mountain laurels.

[Crash! Bang!]

now ppl are competing over who enjoys it more

[aaronthebugbuffet]

Wow another totally useless discussion.

[orangebug]

now ppl are competing over who enjoys it more
Nope, some people are reminding others that hiking is a recreational sport, not a significantly competitive sport. It certainly isn't purepackers vs. impurepackers. If you want to make that your sort of sport, knock yourself out having whatever fun that is for you.

[Dainon]

Crash!Bang!, I read your trailjournal, which stopped at 678 miles (Four Pines Hostel), and look forward to reading about the rest of your thru-hike. Will you be completing the journal soon?

Thanks.

[The Old Fhart]

Crash! Bang!, post #91-“ i changed my mind from thru-ing is harder than sectioning to sectioning is harder physically, but thru-ing is still harder mentally“

Seeing that it may have been a post of mine in another thread that other posters also liked that helped change C!B!'s mind, and my response there also pertains to slacking vs. non-slacking and the differences between sectioning and thru hiking, I’m going to repeat that post here as well. One point first: I only slacked when I got a ride into town and then when I got back to the trail, I walked back across the road to the point I was picked up so I could satisfy myself I hiked the whole trail. Other than that, I carried my 50-pound pack, including up Katahdin (but never to the privy!). I got into the habit of carrying it (yup-anal) mainly because my whole trail life was in that pack and I would hate to lose it. It never bothered me whether anyone slacked or not. My thru hiking friends who slacked, blued, yellowed, etc., would talk to me about their experiences because they knew I didn’t judge them and didn’t care. Now to my post #81 from the “Yellow Blazing” thread under polls.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Originally Posted by Crash! Bang!
i know im going to get accused of elitism here, but until youve actually done a thru-hike, you have no basis for comparison, unless youve done an exceptionally large section, for say, a month or more, doing 12-20 miles a day. do a thru-hike, or springer to damascus in 6 weeks, then we'll talk. you cant know what its like until youve done it.Well, seeing I’m one of the people who has section hiked the entire trail and then thru-hiked the entire trail, I’m may qualified to talk. Here’s my take on your thru vs. section debate.

The hike that is by far the hardest is the one that you are actually doing, not the one you’re not doing, or someone else’s hike. Because you may feel that the way you hiked was harder than someone else’s, belittling their hike may help validate your hike but it isn’t right and this isn’t a competition. No more really has to be said but there are distinct differences between a section and a thru and since that seems to be what this discussion has drifted towards. Here is my take on it.

As a section hiker I took no days off and hiked every day I was out there. A day off from a thru isn’t that big a deal because it is easier to make up over the long haul. The cost of transportation for a section hike is far higher and a friend of mine who also sectioned logged over 10,000 miles of travel to complete the trail. Other posters have already commented on the “break-in” period when you start hiking. It takes up to 3 weeks for your body to adapt and to really get into a routine where hiking every day becomes second nature. Many section hikers don’t have longer than that amount of time per year to devote to a hike so they never get to that level where the hike becomes most enjoyable. Although it is a concern, I never had a big problem with fitting in with the thru community because one thing they respect is miles and I was doing high miles with a large pack. My miles per day were higher on my section hike than when I thru hiked. A really big problem with section hiking is you never know how family, job, health, etc, will change over the much longer time frame required to section hike the trail. I sure that a big reason that a lot of section hikers don’t finish is because of these unexpected logistical problems. Not that thru hikers don’t have some of these concerns as well but these concerns are multiplied for section hikers.

As a thru-hiker I could get into the groove where you are more relaxed and feel good enough so you’re appreciating the world around you more. I took more photos on my thru hike than when I sectioned. Partly because of the experiences on my previous hike, I talked to everyone on the trail whether they were thru, section, day hiker, or jogger; and because of that got to hear many interesting stories and meet people a lot of thru hikers would pass by. Talking to others was also an excuse to stop and slow the pace down. My goal as a thru hiker was to average not more than 15 miles per day on the trail and I actual did 14.6.

One of the big differences from a section hike that I noticed as a NOBO thru hiker was how psychologically drained you can get by the time you get to, say, NH. Some thru hikers I spent much time with and were doing great would just drop off the trail because they could not stand to be there another day. Even with the torn ligament in my foot that caused me pain since Waynesboro, VA, I never got to that point but there were days when I would be on a roller coaster thinking how great this was and 5 minutes later wondering if it were worth it. This feeling is something that, as a section hiker, I could never understand or even imagine.

Also the end of the hike isn’t quite so traumatic for a section hiker as for a thru but this is the piece of the hike that almost all hikers are ill-prepared for. I like to describe finishing on Katahdin (for NOBOs) as like a graduation where most of the class is missing. You remember all the people you have hiked with for months and you would love to share this moment with them, but they are not there. The feeling that lots of hikers get at the end of a hike is that of loss. One hiker I met on the summit was just standing there and I asked him what was wrong. He said: “What do I do now?” You have been dedicated to this intense activity with others who have become very close and all of a sudden, they are gone. What a lot of hikers feel is akin to the grieving process that follows a death of a loved one. I was lucky because I had hiked for 45 years, had sectioned hiked, and it didn’t strike me as hard as it does many hikers. I think this is probably the biggest problem with a thru hike and the least recognized or discussed.

Well, despite the length of this post, people who know me realize this was the Reader’s Digest version.

[Crash! Bang!]

yes, old phart, it was your post that changed my mind, dont break your arm patting yourself on the back:bse . you presented a clear, well-reasoned and persuasive argument for your position. old phart is a model debater and we could all do worse than to take a page from his play-book (myself included).

i would also like to add, for blue jay and his ilk, that this is a discussion forum. opinions are being solicited. dont get your panties in a wad when someone gives one. i generally dont spend alot of time thinking about the topic until someone brings it up, and when they do im bloody well going to give my opinion. name-calling and emotional tirades have no place in rational discussion. please try to have something constructive to add the next time you come to the table, or i will have to swat your nose with the newspaper again. thank you, and enjoy your life:D

[smokymtnsteve]

i would also like to add, for blue jay and his ilk, that this is a discussion forum. opinions are being solicited. dont get your panties in a wad

I don't know if Blue Jay has his panties in a wad, but I do know that he receives panties in his mail drops. He has a GF that sends them to him.

[Blue Jay]

I don't know if Blue Jay has his panties in a wad, but I do know that he receives panties in his mail drops. He has a GF that sends them to him.

That is the last time I ever let you have ANYTHING from my maildrops. If this gets out I won't get any mail drops at all. As for Crash swatting anyone with a newspaper, I, and/or my ilk would absolutely adore to be there.

[MOWGLI]

I don't know if Blue Jay has his panties in a wad, but I do know that he receives panties in his mail drops. He has a GF that sends them to him.

...Blue Jay, do they help with chafing? :D

[Crash! Bang!]

Nope, some people are reminding others that hiking is a recreational sport, not a significantly competitive sport. It certainly isn't purepackers vs. impurepackers. If you want to make that your sort of sport, knock yourself out having whatever fun that is for you.
hikers go out of their way to demonstrate how recreational they are. its a competition to be the most non-competitive. oh how delicious the irony is:banana . anyway, what part of i dont really care that much, but since somebody asked dont you understand?

[smokymtnsteve]

...Blue Jay, do they help with chafing? :D

they are not new from what i understand and are for entertainment purposes only :D

[minnesotasmith]

From: http://solophile.com/Apr27_May03.html



The shelter register had two very amusing poems concerning the ongoing battle between hiking purists, who won't miss a single white blaze and carry their packs the entire way, versus the blue-blazers, who are willing to take side trails, roadwalks, and have their packs shuttled forward for them.

"I'm Better Than You" and "I'm Smarter Than You"

"I'm Better Than You"



I've got slivers in my lips to prove that I'm right
'Cause I kiss every tree with a blaze that's painted white.
I don't take no shortcuts, I don't follow no blue,
Maybe you're done before me, but I'm better than you.

Chorus:
I'm better than you, I'm better than you,
I don't walk no blue, 'cause I'm better than you.
I'm pure and perfect in everything I do,
I'm better than you, I'm better than you.


I've got my backpack heavy as can be.
I don't let nobody carry it for me.
I pump the weight up, with a rock or two,
Your pack is wimpy and I'm better than you.

...Chorus...

My socks are toxic, but that's okay,
I don't do no laundry - that's the pioneer way.l
I don't take showers, I don't use shampoo,
maybe you smell pretty, but I'm better than you.

...Chorus...

Taken from register at Old Orchard Shelter - Author was JZero Wildcat Brother

"I'm Smarter Than You"

I'll do my hiking on the road today.
I'll take a ride, sir, if you're going my way.
Yeah, I'm doing sixty and you're doing two,
Your feet are hurting and I'm smarter than you.


Chorus:
I'm smarter than you, I'm smarter than you,
I walk the blue, 'cause I'm smarter than you.
I take the shortcut in everything I do,
I'm smarter than you, I'm smarter than you.

You climb that mountain, while I go around,
'Cause I always search for the lower ground,
And there's a nice, flat roadway that goes right through.
You're scrambling boulders and I'm smarter than you.

...Chorus...

I think I'll find me a little room tonight,
I'll take a shower and flick on the lights
I'll find a barstool and have a few,
You're drinking Kool-Aid and I'm smarter than you. ...Chorus...

[minnesotasmith]

http://solophile.com/May18_24.html (Scroll down to "Day 72")

"I leave you today with a poem I copied out of Lambert's Meadow Shelter register. It's called "Song of the Open Road."


Song of the Open Road

Afoot and light hearted I take to the open road,
Health, free, the world before me,
The long, brown path leading me wherever I choose.


Henceforth I ask not good fortune,
I myself am good fortune,
Henceforth I wimper no more,
Postpone no more, need nothing.


Done with indoor complaints, criticisms,
Strong and content I travel the open road.
The earth that is sufficient, I walk!
Now I see the secret of the making of the people.
It is to grow in the open air
And eat and sleep with the earth.


O open trail,
I say I am not afraid to leave you,
I love you.
You express me better than I can express myself.


To know the universe itself
As an open trail,
As many open trails,
As all trails for travelling souls."
- Walt Whitman

[MedicineMan]

for some that really need it......and methinks some here do :)