Sentiments on intersecting forest roads-Split from Road Closed

[Pedaling Fool]

Original thread-
For anyone heading this way anytime soon, you should know that GA 348 (where Hogpen Gap is, just North of Neel Gap) is CLOSED do to wintertime damage. They estimate that it will be months before it is usable. For now, it is illegal to drive on much of it; people planning section hikes here, or those planning to meet or slack their friends should know that they risk getting a very healthy ticket if they're caught on this road.

This is a good thing -- no more intrusive trail magic in that section. Let nature reclaim the road.

[d.o.c]

agreed with john let the forest retake alot of forest roads im tired of seeing them when i thnk im in the wilderness theres already enough..

[Tipi Walter]

The road is not a high priority as money is tight and the road is 100% recreational. No homes or businesses are affected as it crosses unpopulated national forest. It is going to require much more than just repaving. Lots of structural issues need to be addressed. I heard the best hope was to get it open by fall as it is a very popular route for the color season.

Key Words: "100% recreational". "popular route for the color season". In other words, pretty much useless except for the rolling couch potatoes.


This is a good thing -- no more intrusive trail magic in that section. Let nature reclaim the road.


agreed with john let the forest retake alot of forest roads im tired of seeing them when i thnk im in the wilderness theres already enough..

Totally agree here. We have a fairly new scar thru the mountains called the Cherohala Skyway which cuts thru a vast wilderness area including the Citico, Slickrock, Brushy Ridge back country and in the winter it is for the most part empty but in the summer becomes a motorcycle racetrack with the screaming leathered infants.

There's a sign at the Brushy Ridge overlook which says, 'THEY TOOK IT ALL" and it was about the loggers 80 years ago who raped the mountains resulting in floods and fires, etc. The placard mentioned how the forest service came in to protect the land and let it heal, and then in the 1990s they brought in dynamite and bulldozers and blew away mountains to put in the Skyway tourist road. Just can't figure people. And now it's like the Anus of the Dragon curvy motor loop--Hiway 129 south of the Smokies. Noise pollution is tremendous and we're getting it from both side now, the north up on 129 and the south on the Skyway. Who's in charge??

[max patch]

GA 348 isn't a forest service road.

[Lone Wolf]

GA 348 isn't a forest service road.

and was probably there before the AT

[white_russian]

The existence of FS roads or paved roads doesn't bother at all. What bothers me is when the AT originally followed those roads and then someone decided that it would be better off throwing the trail 100 yards into the woods paralleling the road to try to make some type of simulated wilderness experience.

[Jester2000]

The existence of FS roads or paved roads doesn't bother at all. What bothers me is when the AT originally followed those roads and then someone decided that it would be better off throwing the trail 100 yards into the woods paralleling the road to try to make some type of simulated wilderness experience.

The entire AT is a simulated wilderness experience. With a little willing suspension of disbelief, one can imagine one is in the middle of nowhere.

[Slo-go'en]

The existence of FS roads or paved roads doesn't bother at all. What bothers me is when the AT originally followed those roads and then someone decided that it would be better off throwing the trail 100 yards into the woods paralleling the road to try to make some type of simulated wilderness experience.

The one I think is the stupidest is after crossing the Watuga dam, they make you climb up a hill instead of following the easy road walk 0.3 miles to where the trail comes back out (more or less) to that same road!

[Jack Tarlin]

Max Patch, as usual, is correct.

Rt. 348 isn't a Forest Service road.

It is also known as the Richard Russell Scenic Highway, i.e. it was meant as a scenic road for tourists and travellers, as well as local residents.

People are welcome to stop and enjoy the scenery; there are also all sorts of places where people can pull over, hike, relax, picnic, whatever.

They can, if they so wish, also provide treats or kindnesses to passing hikers, which the hikers, of course, are welcome to accept or ignore.

There's nothing whatsoever "intrusive" here.Ever hear the phrase "No, thank you" John G.? It's not a difficult concept. The way it works is if someone offers you something you're not interested in or don't need or want, you politely say to them "No, thank you", and go on your merry way.

Gee, what a tough one.

[Mrs Baggins]

Max Patch, as usual, is correct.

Rt. 348 isn't a Forest Service road.

It is also known as the Richard Russell Scenic Highway, i.e. it was meant as a scenic road for tourists and travellers, as well as local residents.

People are welcome to stop and enjoy the scenery; there are also all sorts of places where people can pull over, hike, relax, picnic, whatever.

They can, if they so wish, also provide treats or kindnesses to passing hikers, which the hikers, of course, are welcome to accept or ignore.

There's nothing whatsoever "intrusive" here.Ever hear the phrase "No, thank you" John G.? It's not a difficult concept. The way it works is if someone offers you something you're not interested in or don't need or want, you politely say to them "No, thank you", and go on your merry way.

Gee, what a tough one.

Bravo Jack. You're right.

As to another poster:

"Rolling couch potatoes" - how condescending and cruel. How about those infirm/elderly/disabled etc that cannot hike? They are just supposed to stay out of the countryside and never get to see the "color" or just enjoy a day out unless they can hike? Do you want them ALL hiking??? Then you'd complain about the crowds on the trails. You can't have it both ways. Tell me, how do you get to the trail heads, to the outfitters, to the grocery stores? By horse? Wagon? Walk from home? Every single time?

[white_russian]

The entire AT is a simulated wilderness experience. With a little willing suspension of disbelief, one can imagine one is in the middle of nowhere.
Dead on. What is the longest stretch between crossings that can be accessed by a some sort of powered transportation anyway? Smokies maybe? Definitely not the 100 mile want-to-be wilderness.

[Tipi Walter]

The existence of FS roads or paved roads doesn't bother at all. What bothers me is when the AT originally followed those roads and then someone decided that it would be better off throwing the trail 100 yards into the woods paralleling the road to try to make some type of simulated wilderness experience.

So, you'd be happier backpacking the AT for 2,000 miles on a road?


Bravo Jack. You're right.

As to another poster:

"Rolling couch potatoes" - how condescending and cruel. How about those infirm/elderly/disabled etc that cannot hike? They are just supposed to stay out of the countryside and never get to see the "color" or just enjoy a day out unless they can hike? Do you want them ALL hiking??? Then you'd complain about the crowds on the trails. You can't have it both ways. Tell me, how do you get to the trail heads, to the outfitters, to the grocery stores? By horse? Wagon? Walk from home? Every single time?

The cruelty comes with the road building and bulldozing so lard-encrusted Americans can get their Nature fix without effort. A legless guy got to the top of Mt Everest, so I guess some disabled people aren't stopped, and anyway, does the disability argument mean we have roads into every wilderness area for the sightseers? How about daily helicopter tourist flights? The Grand Canyon has around 56,000 overflights every year, in fact there's a battle now about the noise pollution there.

How do thruhikers get from Georgia to Maine? They walk. So maybe all we need is a simple road to Springer and leave it at that. Everybody knows we have way too many roads in this country, and by 2050 when we have 450 million people it won't be getting any better. More roads: more trash, more noise, more pollution, more rolling couch potatoes waddling over to a springhead and dumping their turd loads in the water. Close my access roads! I'll walk in.

[Jonnycat]

We should just build gondalas over all long-distance trails in the US, and make trail welfare, er, I mean trail magic, a mandatory part of the "backcountry hiker experience."

[white_russian]

So, you'd be happier backpacking the AT for 2,000 miles on a road?
Not at all. I just don't see the point of redundant paths. Seems like a waste of man hours and money.

[sherrill]

Move to Alaska. Or Siberia. Now there's "backcountry".

[Hooch]

The cruelty comes with the road building and bulldozing so lard-encrusted Americans can get their Nature fix without effort....... Tipi goes one step beyond "Hike My Hike Dammit" and goes on to include "Live My Life and Follow My Beliefs Dammit". Ok, Tipi, off the sopabox, you drive/ride in a car on roads too, I'm sure.

[Spogatz]

there is also a lot of history in hwy 384 as it was the first hwy over the mountians in that part of Georgia. The original route passed through Tesnatee gap and down the north side of the road. They used to drag logs to the gap so that when the wagons went down from the top they could drag the logs and not run away down the hill. There is still a hiking trail that leads down the valley to the bottom where the road is now in a residential area.

[Dances with Mice]

GA 348 provides access to two waterfall hikes including one of the most popular trails in Georgia (...as judged by the number of people using it each year, is there other way?). Both of those trailheads are still open, the road is closed above the higher trail.

What is closed is vehicular access to the AT at Hogpen and Tesnatee Gaps. Which may not concern everyone but it does close off access to a popular weekend destination for local Scout troops, Whitley Gap. Which also may not concern everyone but I like seeing youth groups out on the Trail. Most AT hikers bypass Whitley.

So the road offers access to four trails; the AT, 2 waterfall hikes and the Whitley Gap blue blaze. Right now only the waterfall trails are still open for day hikers. 348 is also a popular route for bicyclists. The point is that roads make possible more outdoor activities, not less. Closing 348 is a loss to more than just a few long distance hikers.

[mister krabs]

GA 348 provides access to two waterfall hikes including one of the most popular trails in Georgia (...as judged by the number of people using it each year, is there other way?). Both of those trailheads are still open, the road is closed above the higher trail.

What is closed is vehicular access to the AT at Hogpen and Tesnatee Gaps. Which may not concern everyone but it does close off access to a popular weekend destination for local Scout troops, Whitley Gap. Which also may not concern everyone but I like seeing youth groups out on the Trail. Most AT hikers bypass Whitley.

So the road offers access to four trails; the AT, 2 waterfall hikes and the Whitley Gap blue blaze. Right now only the waterfall trails are still open for day hikers. 348 is also a popular route for bicyclists. The point is that roads make possible more outdoor activities, not less. Closing 348 is a loss to more than just a few long distance hikers.


Excellent points, the north GA roads like this that offer great views and long hills are swarming with bicyclists 8 months out of the year.

[Elder]

there is also a lot of history in hwy 384 as it was the first hwy over the mountians in that part of Georgia. The original route passed through Tesnatee gap and down the north side of the road. They used to drag logs to the gap so that when the wagons went down from the top they could drag the logs and not run away down the hill. There is still a hiking trail that leads down the valley to the bottom where the road is now in a residential area.

Called The Logan Turnpike....;)

[Rain Man]

... and long hills are swarming with bicyclists 8 months out of the year.


Doesn't that include the Tour de Georgia, in prep for the Tour de France each year? They may have to re-route Lance Armstrong and his fellow cyclists this year.

I admit I was surprised, as a novice AT hiker, at all the road crossings and traffic even on "forest service" roads in Georgia. But I simply and appropriately adjusted my false expectations to more accurately fit the circumstances, the truth of things, and kept hiking.

Rain:sunMan

.

[max patch]

Doesn't that include the Tour de Georgia, in prep for the Tour de France each year? They may have to re-route Lance Armstrong and his fellow cyclists this year.



the race was cancelled for 2009 and 2010 because of the economy (sponsorship money.) they hope to hold it in 2011.

[Tipi Walter]

Tipi goes one step beyond "Hike My Hike Dammit" and goes on to include "Live My Life and Follow My Beliefs Dammit". Ok, Tipi, off the sopabox, you drive/ride in a car on roads too, I'm sure.

So, do you like the noise of traffic and motorcycles and overhead jets when you're backpacking or not?? Yes or No?

[mudhead]

I dislike the noise, especially the plane traffic.

But then, I like to dayhike, too.

[weary]

The one I think is the stupidest is after crossing the Watuga dam, they make you climb up a hill instead of following the easy road walk 0.3 miles to where the trail comes back out (more or less) to that same road!
"They" don't make you do anything. Some people like to walk in the woods. Others prefer nice smooth roads. Just take your choice. Personally, I prefer roads when I'm driving a motor vehicle. When I'm walking I'll take a forest trail in preference to a road, any time.

However, that's just my opinion. If you prefer walking on roads, I suggest you skip almost all of the Appalachian Trail entirely. You can easily walk all the way from the forest service road on Springer to within five miles of the summit of Katahdin. Just think of the pleasure you could have, walking less than 11 miles on trails and getting all the way from the summit of Springer to the top of Katahdin, and back to your car at the Katahdin Stream camp ground.

Weary

[Speer Carrier]

and was probably there before the AT

Actually, the Richard B Russell Scenic Highway was built in 1966. A little trivia. It's named for Richard B Russell a longtime politician from Georgia and perhaps one of the most powerful senators of all time.He personally oversaw the design and construction of the roadway. He has an aircraft carrier named for him, a few parks in Georgia, a federal building in Washington, and who knows what else. He was also a white supremacist and an avowed racist. He was born in the 1800's and died in 1971.

[Dances with Mice]

Actually, the Richard B Russell Scenic Highway was built in 1966. A little trivia. It's named for Richard B Russell a longtime politician from Georgia and perhaps one of the most powerful senators of all time.He personally oversaw the design and construction of the roadway. He has an aircraft carrier named for him, a few parks in Georgia, a federal building in Washington, and who knows what else. He was also a white supremacist and an avowed racist. He was born in the 1800's and died in 1971.Kinda sorta. About the highway, I mean. Dead on about the Senator who was also a mentor to a young senator from Texas. A young LBJ chose Russell to be his mentor but not his leader. Fortunately.

There was already a road from the west to Tesnatee Gap and from what is now Alt 75 to Raven Cliff. In '66 the roadways were widened, improved, paved and connected to become the RBRSH. There used to be an AT shelter at Tesnatee.

[daddytwosticks]

Love hearing about the local history surrounding the trail. Thanks guys. :)

[Pedaling Fool]

The fact is the country is not doing so well financially, including individual states. I don't know what will happen to this road, but the priority is in upgrading our poor road infrastructure, not repairing touristy-type roads.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/25/AR2010032502404.html?wpisrc=nl_opinions

It's incredible how much fuel is spent sitting in traffic, not to mention the time (which is money).

[Gray Blazer]

So, do you like the noise of traffic and motorcycles and overhead jets when you're backpacking or not?? Yes or No?

My wife was born in Manhattan, and I know it's hard for some of you to believe, she prefers traffic noise to crickets.

The one good thing that came out of the 9-11 holocaust was the lack of plane traffic right after. I was hiking in the Smokies and Max Patch area and didn't hear one plane or see any contrails. The lack of jet noise was very noticeable and after I got used to it, it was one of the best backpacking experiences ever.

There's a left turn on Mt. Cammerer going SOBO up from Davenport Gap where you go around the side of the mountain and all of a sudden.....you can't hear I-40 anymore. Wonderful!

[Tipi Walter]

My wife was born in Manhattan, and I know it's hard for some of you to believe, she prefers traffic noise to crickets.

The one good thing that came out of the 9-11 holocaust was the lack of plane traffic right after. I was hiking in the Smokies and Max Patch area and didn't hear one plane or see any contrails. The lack of jet noise was very noticeable and after I got used to it, it was one of the best backpacking experiences ever.

There's a left turn on Mt. Cammerer going SOBO up from Davenport Gap where you go around the side of the mountain and all of a sudden.....you can't hear I-40 anymore. Wonderful!

I was out in my Cabelas 12x12 basecamp tent during 9-11 and was also struck by the lack of plane traffic and it was great, but it wasn't the first time for me.

During the Blizzard of '93 I was living out and the storm stopped all plane traffic for a couple days and it was paradise. Other than a national disaster, you can find silence on top of ridges and mountains during windstorms and you can find god-ordained refuge from human-generated noise camping near rushing rivers and waterfalls. It's funny how the loud noise of nature is so different and better than the noise of humans. I wonder why?

Anybody who lives out long enough though can't help but notice the irritating sounds of humans: chain saws, sawmills, motorcycles(the worst), jets, helicopters, big rig truck traffic, etc. The AT in particular between Fontana south to NOC is atop a high ridge and in the summer it's one long journey into Motorcycle Madness. Have earplugs handy. And sometimes the loud overhead jets seem to come once every 2 or 3 minutes--you think you're alone in the woods but then a giant metal tube full of 200 people on couches comes roaring past. There really is no such thing as "wilderness" in the lower 48.

[Blissful]

So, do you like the noise of traffic and motorcycles and overhead jets when you're backpacking or not?? Yes or No?


Honestly I never noticed it until I hit north of Front Royal, VA (which is 1,000 miles of trail behind me). Then there was Dulles Airport, dogs barking motorcycle races, trucks etc. And then I just thanked God I can enjoy this experience of the woods even with sounds of humankind out yonder.

[jandrewward1]

I believe they have almost closed this road for revenue generation. True, the road needs repair. The road appears to have some bumps and a pot holes in it. I have driven on much worse. Give the Atlanta side streets a try. But if it was a big hazard, why would the U.S. Forest Service allow you to drive over it after they give you the ticket. I know someone that got stopped less than a 200yds past the sign and the guy that gave the ticket allowed him to drive over anyways.