View Full Version : Disease on the trail
Hello Friends;
I have been thinking on and off for many years of a thru-hike of the AT, but have always given in to my "fears".
I'm not particularly afraid of people, or even bears, but I worry about disease.
It seems that there are several popular ones; Lyme is the one that always comes to mind.
I know someone who had Lyme disease, and he wasn't a hiker. He just happened to live where there were deer, and deer ticks carrying the disease.
I usually use a 30% DEET repellent, but question whether I want to be using that stuff for months at a time. DEET is on the "To be banned" list, but so far it's still available, mostly because no one has been able to come up with another product that works as well for ticks.
I thought of wearing mosquito netting, but think that would look pretty strange.
Any ideas?
Thanks
FW
wtmntcaretaker
03-27-2010, 14:45
wear bug spray if you want but checking yourself diligently at the end of a day works really well too. I think it takes about 12 hours for the disease to be contracted. I think most people do not get lyme, though it is good to be careful.
garlic08
03-27-2010, 14:49
You can use permethrin on your clothing and take precautions like wearing long trousers and tucking them into your socks--slightly less dorky than a full-body bug suit.
wtmntcaretaker
03-27-2010, 14:50
http://www.turnthecorner.org/tips-protect-loved-ones.htm
this is a pretty good site about lyme disease. knowledge is power. :)
Wise Old Owl
03-27-2010, 15:28
The bug net is huge above Pa, NH and Maine are unbelievable and make sure you protect your elbows. There are some here that never had a problem, I met a guy who works outside all day and drinks very little water, halfway though a trip in Canada he was giving his six bottles of deet away to others in need.
These past two summers I have seen a big increase in hikers who contracted Lymes. I agree that making yourself knowledgeable and checking yourself every single night is a requirement for staying healthy. Also, getting checked by a doctor immediately after you suspect Lymes is crucial.
You can use permethrin on your clothing and take precautions like wearing long trousers and tucking them into your socks--slightly less dorky than a full-body bug suit.
Have you ever read the warnings on the can of permethrin? It's enough to make you take your chances with the bugs, or just use DEET on your skin.
I think permethrin is banned in some states, most likely CA, but I know it's still available in NJ. I was at Campmor in Paramus the other day, and they still selling it.
I have been in NH and VT during black fly season, and agree with Wise Old Owl 110% about the bugs up there. I have hiked parts of the AT up there. It is real bad!
I ran a race in Manchester NH once, and they actually had up warning signs about black flies along the route! That day I was having more problems with a bad foot than flies :(
I have been told that it's not a good idea to keep DEET on your body at night while you sleep. Not sure how to wash it off though, if you don't have shower available. Bathing in a stream would be a no-no.
Maybe alcohol based "waterless soap" would do it. I don't know.
I have never hiked for more than a few days at a time, so I haven't worried about DEET.
As for checking one's self carefully; how exactly do you go about doing that if you're hiking alone?
I would feel kind of stupid asking another hiker to check me for ticks, unless the hiker is female :D
A
Graywolf
03-27-2010, 17:09
Checking your self and good hygiene practices should work well..
Deet remains the protection of choice for people that live, work or recreate in wild places. I don't know of any serious efforts to ban it's sale. There have been worrisome reports from time to time, but it is far safer than permethrin, when used in contact with the human skin..
DEET is water soluable, so just a wet cloth will remove most of it, once you crawl into a tent. I live on the edge of a salt marsh, which is far buggier than any place I know on the Appalachian Trail. I've used DEET for months at a time annually ever since the stuff came on the market a half century ago. No obvious problems as yet.
I use a liquid variety. A two ounce container will last me a full season. I avoid the spray because it's much more expensive, works less well, and I don't like to breathe the stuff. Just rub a drop or two of the liquid on the palm of your hands, and then on exposed body parts.
Weary
Thanks for the advice / info guys;
I checked the website wtmntcaretaker (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/member.php?u=11934) suggested. They say to avoid areas where ticks are found. HA. That's not going to work on the trail. At least I don't do any bushwacking. Since the AT is well used, we don't have tall grass growing on any parts of it.
garlic08, you mention using permethrin. I actually bought a can of that several years back, but got rid of it at the toxic waste drop-off without ever using it.
Like Arden; I read the precautionary information on the label, and was scared off. They talk about only applying the stuff outdoors, and warnings about getting it on your skin, etc. I wouldn't want to be spraying the stuff in camp with other hikers around.
I've talked to hikers who always wear long clothing. I have trouble with that in summer. I get awfully hot and uncomfortable.
That's why I do most of my hiking during the colder weather.
Maybe a SOBO thru-hike would work best for me. Somehow, I believe that I could handle the snow and ice (and cold rain) better than the bugs.
FW
sasquatch2014
03-27-2010, 18:33
Deet does not need to be on the skin to work read up on it. It is designed to mess up the CO2 receptors that insects use to home in in their prey. Yep there are things out there that will kill you but there are more things at home than in the woods. Go hike it's safer.
Jim Adams
03-27-2010, 19:05
...or you could stay home and deal with lock jaw, polio, H1N1, MRSA, chicken pox, small pox, menningitis, swine flu, avian flu, urban giardia, other bacterial infections, other viral infections, plague, etc, etc, etc. Granted, some of these things are no longer common but it isn't because they have been eliminated...they are still out there but most people are immune to them through inocculations...key word here MOST. Stop worrying about the outdoors...most of the time you get illness from other people not the outdoors. I've said it many times, if you are worried that much about your health then stop riding in vehicles and walk EVERYWHERE. You stand more chance of being killed in a motor vehicle crash than you have of getting Lyme, West Nile, Haunta, etc.
geek
Hello Friends;
I have been thinking on and off for many years of a thru-hike of the AT, but have always given in to my "fears".
I'm not particularly afraid of people, or even bears, but I worry about disease.
It seems that there are several popular ones; Lyme is the one that always comes to mind.
I know someone who had Lyme disease, and he wasn't a hiker. He just happened to live where there were deer, and deer ticks carrying the disease.
I usually use a 30% DEET repellent, but question whether I want to be using that stuff for months at a time. DEET is on the "To be banned" list, but so far it's still available, mostly because no one has been able to come up with another product that works as well for ticks.
I thought of wearing mosquito netting, but think that would look pretty strange.
Any ideas?
Thanks
FWFor myself I think one of the biggest dangers of an extended hike such as on the AT, and it being on the east coast which is wet and damp, would be skin problems. Having your feet wet all the time I would be more worried about fungus like athlete's feet, etc...from my boots and socks being wet so often. I guess one could worry about things like Lyme disease,West Nile Virus, Rabies, etc...but I think if you are going to be too mentally consumed by this then it will add an extra burden you will not want to have once you are out there. I guess we all have are different thoughts as far as "what if" but as other's have said, just living your life day to day is risky, you prepare yourself as best you can, take care of yourself out there, and enjoy yourself. There are/will be risks in everything you do. I think for yourself it would be wise to have good health coverage just in case one of these "what if's" unfortunately does happen to come your way.:(
Jonnycat
03-27-2010, 23:29
DEET is on the "To be banned" list.
Hmm, I have not heard that before. Where did you learn of this "list" that states DEET is "to be banned," and who is the regulative body seeking to place it on such a list?
Trailweaver
03-28-2010, 00:09
I accidentally spilled bug repellant with Deet in it on my car seat once. . . it ate a hole in the seat before I could wipe it off! After that - I'm not putting it on my skin.
It's a chemical reaction that won't happen with your skin, just certain synthetics.
garlic08
03-28-2010, 09:51
My wife accidentally sprayed some DEET onto her drinking tube, and a little onto her face. It ate through the tube, and before noticing that she drank some water tainted with DEET. Between the face shot and the water, she was off trail for a day with shortness of breath and racing pulse. We called the California poison hotline and they confirmed some of the side effects of ingesting DEET are shortness of breath and tachycardia. She was OK after a rest, but that's why we don't use DEET anymore. Be careful, if you do.
Snowleopard
03-28-2010, 10:41
Well, at least we don't have malaria on the AT.
It's a tradeoff. There are dangers to chemical repellents and there are dangers to insect borne diseases. The most dangerous chemicals for me are the community insecticide spraying programs for mosquitos for West Nile and EEE. I have asthma and those insecticides could kill me.
Lyme is increasing in southern New England, as are West nile and Eastern Equine Encephalitis. I have a friend in the Boston suburbs that has had it more than once, likely from ticks in her yard.
The disease that seems most likely hiking in the northeast is Lyme. It's less likely in the south and northern New England, but seems to be increasing in the south. There are other tick born diseases that are serious, babeiosis (spelling?).
Tick borne diseases: the best defenses seem to be,
Permethrin on clothes, or use Buzzoff clothes (pricey). Use long pants and long sleeve shirts treated with permethrin. In areas where deer ticks are likely (walking through tall grass) put pants bottoms in socks or wear permethrin treated gaitors.
Checking carefully for ticks every night (requires another person) and removing them; it takes a certain amount of time with the tick attached.
Deet on exposed skin.
Light colored clothes, so you can see the ticks better.
The basic idea is to keep the ticks from getting on you and from crawling up your clothes or body. If you're wearing shorts, you pretty much have to use deet on your legs, and even then long pants will probably work better.
I don't think that a head net will help much with ticks unless you're crawling through the grass or your head is brushing branches.
Mosquito borne diseases: West Nile and Eastern Equine Encephalitis are serious but a lot less common than Lyme. Permethrin on clothes and DEET on skin. Head nets help. In the far north (northern Quebec/Ontario/Alaska) full bug suits might be necessary.
Black flies: There isn't much disease carried by black flies, so its mainly a comfort issue, perhaps a major comfort issue.
I have asthma and it's not clear how much of a respiratory irritant DEET is, so I avoid it as much as possible. So I use permethrin, head nets and carry DEET but use it only when absolutely necessary.
garlic, your wife's problems could also be from drinking water contaminated with the dissolved plastic. The idea of using a spray for potentially toxic chemicals seems insane to me, whether insect repellents, sunscreen or household cleaning chemicals.
Jonnycat
03-28-2010, 10:59
I hit myself in the head with a hammer. I started to get really dizzy, then I called a nurse.
She told me that hitting myself in the head with a hammer is a likely cause of my dizzyness.
I threw that hammer out, and will never be using a hammer again!
Fiddleback
03-28-2010, 11:42
Hmm, I have not heard that before. Where did you learn of this "list" that states DEET is "to be banned," and who is the regulative body seeking to place it on such a list?
Yes...pray tell! What list, where can we find it and what else is on the 'list'?
FB
I hit myself in the head with a hammer. I started to get really dizzy, then I called a nurse.
She told me that hitting myself in the head with a hammer is a likely cause of my dizzyness.
I threw that hammer out, and will never be using a hammer again!
Yeah, I mean most of of our stuff isn't digestible, I ate my esbit tablet,stuff sack,suntan lotion,etc....didn't feel so hot,won't be bringing those things again.lol
Better living through chemistry! I use 100% Deet. I use AquaMira. I'd use a nuclear powered stove if it was more efficient and lighter than denatured alcohol and a soda can. I have accepted the fact I will eventually die.
But what do I know? I use dihydrogen monoxide (within reason) and even force it on my children from time to time.
Don't ban my chemicals! If you are "anti-chemical", just think of my eventual demise - one less "pro-chemical" person to worry about.
FYI - I just heard the number 8 is carcinogenic.
the goat
03-28-2010, 13:14
Any ideas?
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/0/0/9/4/AT014_thumb.jpg (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showimage.php?i=12619&catid=searchresults&searchid=30782)
I accidentally spilled bug repellant with Deet in it on my car seat once. . . it ate a hole in the seat before I could wipe it off! After that - I'm not putting it on my skin.
DEET was used as an industrial solvent, before the Army discovered that it also repells mosquitoes and black flies. But it will dissolve some plastics, including plastic eye glass lenses.
I've been using it for decades. My skin is still intact. But not my plastic eye glasses. It's a great repellent. Just keep it off things made of plastic.
I once spilled my bourbon on a shellacked sideboard. The shellac dissolved. But I haven't found it useful to stop drinking bourbon. I now just keep it off fine furniture.
Weary
Better living through chemistry! I use 100% Deet. I use AquaMira. I'd use a nuclear powered stove if it was more efficient and lighter than denatured alcohol and a soda can. I have accepted the fact I will eventually die.
But what do I know? I use dihydrogen monoxide (within reason) and even force it on my children from time to time.
Don't ban my chemicals! If you are "anti-chemical", just think of my eventual demise - one less "pro-chemical" person to worry about.
FYI - I just heard the number 8 is carcinogenic.
No such thing as 100% DEET, unless you're manufacturing it yourself, or stealing it from where it is.
I am using 30% DEET, which is supposedly the standard. It's what they are selling at most outdoor stores.
I don't like chemicals, but I also don't like the concept of having all of these biting insects on my skin. It's not only for health concerns; comfort is also a factor.
A
garlic08
03-28-2010, 14:20
No such thing as 100% DEET...
I think there is, at least according to several labels I've seen, which could be misleading: http://www.amazon.com/Repel-Insect-Repellent-Spray-402000/dp/B000LGN3Z2
I think there is, at least according to several labels I've seen, which could be misleading: http://www.amazon.com/Repel-Insect-Repellent-Spray-402000/dp/B000LGN3Z2
That's the stuff I have, according to the label:
Active Ingredients
DEET...................98.1%
Other Ingredients....1.9%
Total.................100.0%
Those SOBs - if you can't trust your chemical manufacturer, who can you trust?
I'm not sure where I read or heard about banning DEET. I did some research yesterday, and cannot find anything about a ban, although the FDA recommends not to put it on kids.
I did see a couple articles online about DEET, stating that the max concentration that should be used is 30%.
One thing I must admit about all of this is that I worry too much. Maybe doing a thru-hike would be the best thing for me. If I could get through it without contracting anything, then I might live a better life. Of course, I might get through the AT hike, and then get Lyme in my local park:(
But the county sprays for mosquitoes. Not sure about ticks.
FW
sourwood
03-28-2010, 19:10
Well, I always thought getting Lyme disease or something else on the trail would be really, really bad. And I really, really did not want that to happen. Then I got Lyme and a very bad spider bite that took me off the trail for weeks. But, I recovered, life went on, I finished hiking the trail. I've been healthy for years since that time. So, be careful, keep an eye on your health, but don't let your worries stop you from hiking.
One thing I must admit about all of this is that I worry too much. Of course, I might get through the AT hike, and then get Lyme in my local park:(
But the county sprays for mosquitoes. Not sure about ticks.
FWConsider purchasing a copy of this. It may help alleviate some of your phobia:https://www.atctrailstore.org/catalog/iteminfo.cfm?itemid=395&compid=1
Jonnycat
03-29-2010, 08:40
I did see a couple articles online about DEET, stating that the max concentration that should be used is 30%.
The 30% number comes from a study in which they determined that 30% is the maximum effective concentration of DEET. In other words, if you put 30% DEET on one arm, and 100% DEET on the other arm, each arm will repel a similar percentage of bugs.
Personally, I use the 3M Ultrathon, which is about 34% DEET in a time-release formula. I put a little in a sandwich baggie, then use that as an applicator (to keep the stuff off of my palms).
I leave some of it in the baggie, invert the baggie, then carry the baggie in my pocket should I need a reapplication.
Well, I always thought getting Lyme disease or something else on the trail would be really, really bad. And I really, really did not want that to happen. Then I got Lyme and a very bad spider bite that took me off the trail for weeks. But, I recovered, life went on, I finished hiking the trail. I've been healthy for years since that time. So, be careful, keep an eye on your health, but don't let your worries stop you from hiking.
I got lyme disease last year after hiking SNP.
It's nasty stuff.. If you go hiking and shortly afterwards think you're coming down with a bad case of the flu, suspect lyme.
I'm carrying doxycycline with me this summer.
Bigglesworth
03-29-2010, 11:03
For tick prevention - stick to wearing pants or wear gaiters. 100% Deet around ankles and on hat at least. Check yourself religiously at night. Keep hair cut shorter? Have a plan to get to medical access for a perscription if you do spot the "red bullseye" after a tick is embedded.
Worry about disease after the trail. You get exposed to so few germs on the trail it is like diving into a petry dish after the hike. A lot of us from my class kept getting sick right after our hike ended when we came back to the real world.
Risk vs. reward in general is part of the thru-hike, too!
Distracted By Stone
03-29-2010, 12:01
I carry a tweezers, cigarette lighter and a small 2" folding mirror with one of the two mirrors 3x or more whenever I am in the woods, and when in CT at all times.
All easy to get at, usually in pocket.
( in backpack: magnifier+tweezer and cup shaped extractor + small amount of olive oil. mirror the kind available in cosmetic section of drugstore )
Picking up the tick and frying it helps with a fear, because you are not helpless.
( If you happen to walk thru a nest and find twenty or so on you and hiking friends, it is a very handy set of tools. ticks are the only thing I enjoy killing, but that day it was a bit too much )
I am a tick magnet. ( The joke was : hike with G because, if five people go out and one has a tick it will be me. It may be body chemistry; so say two carpenters who have noticed that living in a very tick-ful CT)
If alone, use the mirror to check anywhere or anytime you think you feel something.
Eventually you know what a tick feels like on your skin.
You get calm and rational about it. Careful but not obsessed.
Spent months at a time in CT, near Lyme CT. Deer ticks are PLENTIFUL.
Learned about checking, and looking at the back of fellow hikers when walking along.
( I hike in shorts because a friend who comes from a tick-ful area of the south does and taught me to do quick checks while walking along.
Have been told that shaved legs are less likely to collect ticks. Perhaps you feel the tick walk.
I use Deet on shoes and socks and back of shorts and shirt.)
Check with the mirror at some point each day.
You notice if you have a biting tick you can not reach, you will not be shy about asking a near stranger to help get it out.
I used to be terrified of ticks, yet never had one on me.
Now, have had many dozens walking on me; three biting, one embedded.
No longer have big fear, very rational and use commonsense.
bigcranky
03-29-2010, 12:10
At least I don't do any bushwacking. Since the AT is well used, we don't have tall grass growing on any parts of it.
Yeah, good thing there is never any tall grass all over the trail....
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/2/6/6/2005snp_hike5385_thumb.jpg (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=40245&c=519)
I actually got Lyme disease after that hike. It sucked. But the antibiotics worked pretty fast, once the docs decided that I really did need them. (The verification process took 6-8 weeks, long after the meds had knocked it back.)
sasquatch2014
03-29-2010, 15:05
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/0/0/9/4/AT014_thumb.jpg (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showimage.php?i=12619&catid=searchresults&searchid=30782)
Ahhhh Please make it stop! It Burns it Burns!
Blissful
03-29-2010, 20:10
Soak your clothing in permethrin.
Appalachian Tater
03-29-2010, 23:24
Using DEET is better than getting tick borne disease. Just don't use it on children.
Father Dragon
03-30-2010, 00:35
But what do I know? I use dihydrogen monoxide (within reason) and even force it on my children from time to time.
Dihydrogen monoxide is some very dangerous stuff and kills thousands of people every year. You should really think about switching to hydrogen hydroxide or even hydroxic acid ... I mean you can never be two careful with dangerous chemicals :D
Dihydrogen monoxide is some very dangerous stuff and kills thousands of people every year. You should really think about switching to hydrogen hydroxide or even hydroxic acid ... I mean you can never be two careful with dangerous chemicals :DPadre - Thanks for the suggestion; I'll pick some up the next time I'm at Wal-Mart.
For tick prevention - stick to wearing pants or wear gaiters. 100% Deet around ankles and on hat at least. Check yourself religiously at night. Keep hair cut shorter? Have a plan to get to medical access for a perscription if you do spot the "red bullseye" after a tick is embedded.
Worry about disease after the trail. You get exposed to so few germs on the trail it is like diving into a petry dish after the hike. A lot of us from my class kept getting sick right after our hike ended when we came back to the real world.
Risk vs. reward in general is part of the thru-hike, too!
I was thinking yesterday about the hair issue. I agree that keeping it short, even shaved completely is best. Ticks seem to like the hairline, and without hair, it's much easier to spot the ticks.
Of course there are certain areas we cannot remove hair from, and ticks may seek out those areas after not finding any in other places:(
It's funny that I worry so much about disease, but never about injury. Isn't it a lot more likely that I will injure myself on the train than catch some disease?
I guess the thought is, I can usually see the dangerous situations and avoid them, but insects are not so easy to spot. Although, as has been said, common sense during the hike should help to minimize the chances of having trouble with either illness or injury.:)
In the end, I am sure that if my desire to thru-hike the trail are strong enough, I will find ways to deal with my fears.:)
FW