panthers, mountain lions, anybody? [Archive]

left turn

03-28-2010, 09:25

i'm from southern coastal area of north carolina and move back and forth between boone nc. some of my dads friends have land in the Green swamp which is a very vast remote area down on the coast.

i had always heard stories of Black Panthers but never believed it. well here within the last year there have been many sightings in the remote areas of the green swamp. strange thing is, is they are not black but more like tan and lighter brown. i have no reason to doubt these people that said they have seen them because they were extremely series when speaking about it because the experience had scared the pudding out each on them. one of the cats was in a tree next to the mans wife while she was climbing a porta climb to deer hunt. it was running down the opposite tree while she was going up here tree. another two men on two separate occasions saw two in the same area together.

so i guess my question is has anybody run into something like this on the trail, i've been all around the boone area and sections of the AT and never heard stories, just old stories from the old days when these cats used to be in abundance in the wild. are they making a come back?

toothpick

03-28-2010, 10:15

Was in Florida last week and there are numerous stories about panthers there. Lots are brown and some are black. I'm sure it is entirely possible that there are panthers in the swamps of the Carolinas.

Wise Old Owl

03-28-2010, 10:46

The Truth? you will be making too much noise or the hiker 10 minutes ahead will be making too much noise for you to be concerned, it would take a lot to see one. Even if you were looking for one and being very very very quiet (just like Elmer Fudd) you won't see one.

Snowleopard

03-28-2010, 10:52

Wise Old Owl

03-28-2010, 11:23

There was one shot by a hunter in Georgia. DNA testing showed that it was related to the population of cougars in Florida. So, in NC it is possible for a wandering animal to show up. A breeding population would be a surprise, but could happen.

Yea hefty fine for shooting a endangered species. Silly Hunter was all proud of himself showing off the body to the Fish & Game Warden.

emerald

03-28-2010, 12:13

See DNA links cougar killed in Georgia's Troup County to south Florida panther population (http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/2009/08/05/798764/dna-links-cougar-killed-in-georgias.html) and Florida's most endangered species (USFWS (http://www.fws.gov/verobeach/index.cfm?Method=programs&NavProgramCategoryID=10&programID=64&ProgramCategoryID=10)). Many would benefit from reading the species account linked from the USFWS link.

Feral Bill

03-28-2010, 14:01

Black, brown, or tan, it's all the same species. Same with the name: puma, mountain lion, cougar, panther, painter, catamount, etc.

Snowleopard

03-28-2010, 14:19

Thanks for the links, Emerald. Only 80 animals in the Florida population is a pretty small population. That makes it less likely for a viable population to be established much further north.

There have been confirmed instances of mountain lions in the Northeast, but these are most likely released captive animals.

emerald

03-28-2010, 14:48

The small population was to blame for inbreeding depression which prompted efforts to improve its genes. It's a common problem conservation biologists must resolve when dealing with endangered species.

trailangelbronco

03-28-2010, 14:57

I live in Cougar country. Ton's of em. I have never had a problem. Back east, the cats would be seriously outnumbered and live in stealth mode. Any noise or smells freaks em out and they hide unless they spot prey to kill. Small prey.

Daytime they are up in trees. Out west here, dogs and little kids get mauled once in a great while, but even that is very rare.

Graywolf

03-28-2010, 16:14

Cougers, on the trail??? Now I really have got to get out there..

Tinker

03-28-2010, 16:21

Hey, I've heard that there are feral cats all over Rhode Island (housecats gone wild).
I've only seen them about a dozen times in my entire life.
Just because you don't see them (cougars) doesn't mean they're not there.
I don't see any reason that they can't be anywhere along the AT. Scat has been found in Vermont identified as that of the Panther, Catamount, whatever. Same species.

emerald

03-28-2010, 16:30

Scat, prints and even sightings does not an established, breeding population make.

Shutterbug

03-28-2010, 16:43

...
so i guess my question is has anybody run into something like this on the trail...

If by "the trail" you mean the AT, my answer is "no."

I have seen mountain lions in the wild in Arizona and in Colorado. They are beautiful animals. All of the ones I have seen have been a tan color -- almost yellow. One was right at sun set and looked darker. I assume it was just because there wasn't enough light to see the true color.

I have a friend who lives near Houston, TX. He swears that he saw a black panther in the woods north of Houston. I know him well enough to know that he is sincere in his belief that he saw one, but I am not yet convinced that he saw what he thought he saw.

Graywolf

03-28-2010, 16:48

If by "the trail" you mean the AT, my answer is "no."

I have seen mountain lions in the wild in Arizona and in Colorado. They are beautiful animals. All of the ones I have seen have been a tan color -- almost yellow. One was right at sun set and looked darker. I assume it was just because there wasn't enough light to see the true color.

I have a friend who lives near Houston, TX. He swears that he saw a black panther in the woods north of Houston. I know him well enough to know that he is sincere in his belief that he saw one, but I am not yet convinced that he saw what he thought he saw.

Cougers are a live and well in Texas..Especially the eastern and southern sections of the State..Not mentioning West Texas Mountains...I have seen them as far north as the Ouachitas of Oklahoma and the Arkansas Ozarks...

Shooting Star

03-28-2010, 21:12

With the overabundance of deer in the Southern Appalachians,
any mountain lions are probably well fed kitties. No need to hunt,
they just go shopping. No need for hikers to worry. I don't think
I've ever read of a credible sighting on the AT. Anyone know of one?

Tinker

03-28-2010, 22:11

Nope. From what I hear they prefer not to me noticed. Especially by their prey. ;)

Graywolf

03-28-2010, 22:52

here is a good site for anyone interested...Go to the About Eastern Cougars for the Legal Status of the Puma..

www.easterncougar.org (http://www.easterncougar.org)

There are many, many more ssites and info out there..And Yes, All eastern Cougars are protected by law, NOT only the Florida Panther..

MEOW.......

TIDE-HSV

03-28-2010, 23:18

Shooting Star

03-28-2010, 23:50

There have been many threads on this. All I can add is that my wife and I saw one on the Blue Ridge Parkway, not far from the Mt. Pisgah Inn. It was around 10:00 PM and we were traveling on the Parkway towards the Inn when it crossed the road ahead of us. It was a bit misty, but not enough to make the sighting doubtful. It was larger than I would have thought, light in color with a black-tipped tail. The tail was almost as long as the animal. There have been other sightings in the same general area. BTW, I don't care if I'm believed or not, so you can save those kinds of comments...
I'm not surprised by your sighting. There are a number of anecdotal signings
like yours that crop up in newspapers up and down the mountains. The standard
of proof from a wildlife biologist's perspective is pretty high. They need to see
tracks, scat, hair samples, an occasional roadkill etc to be convinced. Whatever
population we do have in the Southern Appalachians is too small to produce much
evidence. A research group critter-cam'd several hundred miles of AT in Virginia
in recent years and got lots of pics of all the animals you would expect - bears,
deer etc. But no mountain lions. I think the AT is too people traveled and so much
of the trail corridor abuts farms and roads and small towns that it's about the last
place to produce a mountain lion sighting. These cats know how to be unseen.
I'd love to see one while out backpacking. Just hope he's well fed when I do...

TIDE-HSV

03-28-2010, 23:57

I'm not surprised by your sighting. There are a number of anecdotal signings
like yours that crop up in newspapers up and down the mountains. The standard
of proof from a wildlife biologist's perspective is pretty high. They need to see
tracks, scat, hair samples, an occasional roadkill etc to be convinced. Whatever
population we do have in the Southern Appalachians is too small to produce much
evidence. A research group critter-cam'd several hundred miles of AT in Virginia
in recent years and got lots of pics of all the animals you would expect - bears,
deer etc. But no mountain lions. I think the AT is too people traveled and so much
of the trail corridor abuts farms and roads and small towns that it's about the last
place to produce a mountain lion sighting. These cats know how to be unseen.
I'd love to see one while out backpacking. Just hope he's well fed when I do...

I'm well aware of all that. Before I saw one, I was firmly in the skeptic camp. It was a real shock. Of course, it could have been an escaped pet. Also, that particular area is in a lot more National Forest than most of the AT.

cknight

03-29-2010, 16:09

I will have to ask forgivness before I reply to this one. As I understand it, they come in all colors and sizes. They are mostly found in populated areas, but can be found most anywhere. Pumas are over 50+, cougers are 35+ and kittens are 35-. For the most part, they are up to no good.

Graywolf

03-29-2010, 18:35

I'm not surprised by your sighting. There are a number of anecdotal signings
like yours that crop up in newspapers up and down the mountains. The standard
of proof from a wildlife biologist's perspective is pretty high. They need to see
tracks, scat, hair samples, an occasional roadkill etc to be convinced. Whatever
population we do have in the Southern Appalachians is too small to produce much
evidence. A research group critter-cam'd several hundred miles of AT in Virginia
in recent years and got lots of pics of all the animals you would expect - bears,
deer etc. But no mountain lions. I think the AT is too people traveled and so much
of the trail corridor abuts farms and roads and small towns that it's about the last
place to produce a mountain lion sighting. These cats know how to be unseen.
I'd love to see one while out backpacking. Just hope he's well fed when I do...

Now you done it!!!! So you telling me that not only Bigfoot needs proof for his exsistance but now the wild animals of the woods???Where are these biologist getting their information from???

Oh wait, I can answer that one..They didn't see a cougar in the box of animal crackers...

geez..I am glad I never ate an animal cracker..

Graywolf

turtle fast

03-29-2010, 19:02

We had a fellow hiker who had been night hiking in the area of the Preist in Virginia trying to make up some miles. He was hiking with his headlamp on and was focused on the trail when a Cougar ran past him crossing the trail several feet in front of him....it had just ran past him!!! He was mortified! He saw it quite clearly, was tan and heavy bodied...long heavy tail....it was bigger than what he thought a cougar would look like and almost silent! He had a nerve wracking hike to the next shelter where upon his arrival he was the only one there. He set up camp and did not do any more night hiking. He was freaked out.

Shutterbug

03-29-2010, 19:09

Some of the best evidence is a picture.

I don't have any pictures of pathers or mountain lions on the AT, but I have a friend who lives near Mt. Hood in Oregon. He sent me these pictures taken by a StealthCam on his property.

gunner76

03-29-2010, 19:35

Have never seen any in the wild but in the early 70's when I lived in Banner Elk NC there were reports of them in the area.

Out in California I use to go moutain biking and running at Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park located a few miles from MCAS El Toro. Largest wild animal I saw there was some deer. Then a few weeks after I was transferred to east coast 2 female mountain bike riders were attacked at the Park by a moutain lion, one rider was killed and the other was rescued by others in the area. When the news showed the spot where the attact occured, I though OH *****, I knew the exact sport and had biked/run by it many times by myself and with the wife and kids.

I have come face to face with a black bear at night when hiking. I don't know who was more scared, me or the bear. Luckly for me the bear decided go in the oposite direction I went.

Rick Hancock

03-29-2010, 20:18

This is in reply to Shooting Star and Turtle Fast. My buddy and his friend thru-hiked the AT over a 16 year period. 1970's/1980's. In Maine I believe the 100 mile wilderness they saw a female with several cubs on a rock ledge that appeared to be a den. They were over 100 yards away but both feel certain of what they saw. Both are experienced outdoorsmen. I have seen Mt. Lion tracks along the Kennedy Ridge Fire road in Saint Marys River area that is not very far from the Priest Mt area of the AT. And lastly in 1980 I thru-hiked the AT. A few days before Damascus, north of Elk Park I saw a Mt Lion walk across a fire road as I came around a bend in the trail. I was only about 40 yards away and the encounter lasted appx 15 seconds. It was one of the highlights of my hike.

Shooting Star

03-29-2010, 22:16

I love the TJ pics that the night hikers post showing glowing red eyes
off in the dark. An early season thru-hiker I ran across last year
north of Erwin had 2 dogs and said she liked to night hike a lot and
felt safer with the dogs. She said she gave up the practice after seeing
big glowing eyes once that were much higher up than what you'd expect
from deer or smaller animals.

left turn

03-30-2010, 08:27

as for a breeding population in the Carolina swamps, the two friends of my dad that saw two said it seemed like they may have been male and female about to breed, because they were able to get very close unnoticed. then they realized what they were because they thought they were deer, and slowly moved away and so did the cats.

every sighting has been around 2:00 P.M. and 4:00 P.M. i thought i was strange to hear about sightings of these cats on the coast and never hearing anything about them here in the Boone and Asheville area live/have lived.

so... i think they are breeding in the southeast part of the state and making a come back in this area. more and more people are seeing them. i mean 9 years ago there were no wild Turkey's or Coyote's, and now there are of plenty each, actually to many Coyote's but it's still good to see them back.

they released wolves in NC some time back with the way these animals are making a come back NC could be back to the real wilderness it used to be.

Snowleopard

03-30-2010, 12:02

If there is a sufficient area of good cougar habitat and a good enough corridor habitat corridor from an existing population, there will eventually be cougar. Of course that might take 10,000 years

Wolves will likely be in the northeast way before cougars -- they don't have as far to go. Wolves are common in parts of Quebec. Coyotes in New England and NY appear to be part wolf.

WILLIAM HAYES

03-30-2010, 19:32

heard one at chatahoochie gap several years ago sounded like a woman screaming and moaning was not a bobcat I know what a bobcat sounds like

emerald

03-30-2010, 20:38

Coyotes in New England and NY appear to be part wolf.

We may be off-topic, it's true elsewhere in the East too. See Red Wolves (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=46504) and Pennsylvania Game Commission's Coyote (http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_706622_0_0_18/coyote.pdf) (Wildlife Note 39) for more information.

Some time ago, we took a sharp but inevitable turn onto Speculation Road about when we stopped posting links to authoritative information and began shooting the breeze. Some folks don't understand the difference.

Wise Old Owl

03-30-2010, 21:40

brian2o0o

03-31-2010, 07:51

I've seen a cougar near the Savannah River in McCormick, SC. I was taking the back roads up to the mountains for the weekend and saw one standing on the side of the road just before dark. It was big, a dark tan color, and had a long thick tail. As I passed it turned and ran into the woods. I had always heard that there were a few around, but never would have believed it without seeing one.

Gray Blazer

03-31-2010, 08:55

There was at least one black panther in FL. I spotted one crossing the road right in front of me in Wacahoota, FL over 30 years ago. Skinny as heck with a long tail like Tide mentioned. The locals said he lived in an abandoned house in the woods near there.

left turn

03-31-2010, 10:13

Wolves will likely be in the northeast way before cougars -- they don't have as far to go. Wolves are common in parts of Quebec. Coyotes in New England and NY appear to be part wolf.

i would be willing to bet the north east has it's share of cougars, just as much wolves, just no one has seen them, or people have seen them and no one believes them. i always thought the cougar population up north was always higher than down south.

cats are smart and know how to stay hid, as well as a K-9. people still don't believe me when i tell them there are coyotes in the south east coastal areas of NC, but there are, i have seen them and i hear them howling every time i camp down there. they have gone fully nocturnal, i have never seen or heard one during the day.

left turn

03-31-2010, 10:19

Coyotes in New England and NY appear to be part wolf.

the Coyotes in south east NC have been breeding with common dogs, and we have found Coyotes on the side of the round that had to be 80lbs, the size of a German shepherd. so it would not surprise me if they were breeding with wolves