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lloyd528
04-01-2010, 14:25
As I read through all the books about thru hiking along with the trail journals found online, I get the impression that there are no real standards for a thru hike...it seems like the philosophy out there is to "Hike Your Own Hike"....slack pack, blue blaze, flip flop, yellow blaze. What I am curious about is this....are white blazers who avoid slack packing and flip flopping in the minority? Are the white blazers usually older hikers? Does anyone have a problem with these alternative ways of hiking to avoid the demands of weather, trail and weight? Are there no overiding ethics out there?

I'd love to hear from you... Lloyd

full conditions
04-01-2010, 14:40
I absolutely could care less what anyone else does on their hike. The time when a thru hike is considered interesting, much less particularly impressive, is long since past. Thousands of people have hiked the trail in all manner of ways and none of it is of interest to anyone except themselves. So then, to whom would these standards be of any interest? It becomes something akin to comparing a drive on the Blue Ridge Parkway - nobody cares how you did it - its only of importance to you.

ChinMusic
04-01-2010, 14:43
If the 2000-mile patch is your goal you are supposed to pass all the white blazes (within reason) on the trail, with no requirement of direction, weight on your back, or order.

If enjoyment of the trail is your goal, do whatever pleases you and ignore folks that decrease your enjoyment.

lloyd528
04-01-2010, 14:55
Where do most thru hikers draw the line with each other or are there no lines?

Another words, can you hitch hike to catch up with friends and be guilt free?

ChinMusic
04-01-2010, 15:02
Where do most thru hikers draw the line with each other or are there no lines?

Another words, can you hitch hike to catch up with friends and be guilt free?
That is something you can only answer for yourself.

If you skip a section you should not put in for a 2000-mile patch, but that is on the honor system. No one is going to "bust" you.

Different people have different goals. Some do not want to slack. Some want to complete the path in the same direction without breaking it up. Some want to set speed records. It's all good.

Lyle
04-01-2010, 15:15
I will add that I couldn't care less if someone hitch-hikes to skip a portion of the trail they do not find appealing, or to catch up to friends if they have been held up for some reason. If I were part of the group who were actually hiking the trail that year, it would probably annoy me if this person continued to present himself as a thru-hiker. That would depend upon how much was skipped, obviously.

I am not a purist by any stretch, I don't care if you hike a blue blaze trail occasionally, even road walk occasionally, but to actually skip many miles of the walk is different, in my opinion, and shouldn't be ignored. I would consider it appropriate for the person who did the skipping to acknowledge the fact. If he/she chose not to, that is their decision, but I would loose some respect for them and their honesty. Could still be a perfectly fun person to hike with.

bigcranky
04-01-2010, 15:23
Another words, can you hitch hike to catch up with friends and be guilt free?

No, you can't. Sorry.

Ender
04-01-2010, 15:27
As far as defining thru-hiking, the standards are yours and yours alone. Just don't try to make your standards someone else's standards, because that's their business not yours.

For the 2000 miler patch from the ATC, they have criteria that you can find on their website.

Deadeye
04-01-2010, 15:35
Since I'd rather chip in than work...

If you walk from one end of a trail to the other, the exact route ain't all that important. Routes change, and there are many interesting sights on side trails or alternate routes.

For me, the exception is yellow-blazing. Riding a car ain't hiking.

Tabasco
04-01-2010, 16:08
Yes, there are standards. And they can be found in our own Mags' book, HMHD : Hike My Hike Damnit!

Graywolf
04-01-2010, 16:09
Looks like a lot of self centered mindness has worked its way from our busy hustle and bustle world to the freedom of the trail.. So typical of humans. So typical..

Actually, I miss reading the older journals of past where friends were made along the way and hikers helped other hikers..Just isnt that way any more from the sounds of this and other threads..: Hike your own hike attitude..What happened to the days of community on the traill.. Does the Trail Community even exists anymore..sad, so sad..

lloyd528
04-01-2010, 16:49
So far I get the feeling that some feel yellow blazing is over the edge and others could care less. That's fine but are all trails in the U.S. "Hike Your Own Hike" trails or do some, like the Pacific Crest Trail, have a different attitude about slack packing, flip flopping, etc. I guess my question is, given the unique nature of the Appalachian Trail, and it's large hiking community, is it more forgiving about who is a thru hiker and who is not. That's what I am getting at...then I'm out.

shwn354
04-01-2010, 16:49
i think the "hike your own hike" philosophy has more to do with not letting the opinions and judgments of others define your time in the woods. i personally have not got the impression that just because hikers walk according to their own standards that they are less willing to help others or make friends. It's not like a city street where everybody passes each other with their eyes to the ground. The trail community was alive and well when i went thru two years ago anyway. maybe it's disintegrated since then.

lloyd528
04-01-2010, 16:57
Looks like a lot of self centered mindness has worked its way from our busy hustle and bustle world to the freedom of the trail.. So typical of humans. So typical..

Actually, I miss reading the older journals of past where friends were made along the way and hikers helped other hikers..Just isnt that way any more from the sounds of this and other threads..: Hike your own hike attitude..What happened to the days of community on the traill.. Does the Trail Community even exists anymore..sad, so sad..

Graywolf, I am trying to read in between the lines here.... Are you saying that the "Hike Your Own Hike" is annoying or do agree with those who say that hiking is a personal thing?

shwn354
04-01-2010, 17:10
everyones hike is their own personal journey. They all meet all kinds of people. Some you only know for a short time, others longer. The hike is the real journey, in whatever form it takes. The AT merely facilitates the voyage.

lloyd528
04-01-2010, 17:33
I think I am beginning to get it....the AT should be thought of as a journey and not as a physical feat of endurance where there are those who "really did it" and those who couldn't really cut it (and call themselves thru hikers). If you got to Katahdin and started on Springer, you made it..you completed the "journey"...you are a thru hiker even if you got there in a different way. I think the moderator had the best advice for me...go to the ATC and look at their definition of a thru hiker. I think I will do that and stick as closely as possible to their definition if I want to be big on standards. I will also take others advice....don't look down upon someone who hikes without a pack.....that will be tough for me but I will try. Maybe after I get started my "hang ups" about standards will fade. Thank you all for your points of view.

buff_jeff
04-01-2010, 18:43
I don't care what anybody does and I'm not going for one of those 2,000 miler patches.

I am still a "purist," however. I try my best not to skip anything. Well, I skipped a quarter mile of the trail through a farm field in PA and road walked...but, besides that I haven't yellow blazed, blue blazed, whatever. I've enjoyed hiking this way immensely, but how others hike is their business.

SGT Rock
04-01-2010, 19:01
It's just hiking. No rules, no scores.

If you want to impose rules on how you hike, it is your business.

SGT Rock
04-01-2010, 19:22
No umps or refs either. There are some that like to say how you should hike to be "legitimate" though. Watch out for them.

SGT Rock
04-01-2010, 19:30
What happened to the days of community on the traill.. Does the Trail Community even exists anymore..sad, so sad..

Not everyone hikes for the "community experience" some of us start in January and go for days without seeing another human. And we like it that way. Some of us even conceive of changing how we hike the "standard thru-hike" to avoid the crowds of other hikers.

Don't get me wrong, I like people and generally would do anything for anyone in need, and can hold an interesting conversation with just about anyone. But I (and I suspect others) find a lot of the "trail community" a bit annoying to be stuck around all the time.

nitewalker
04-01-2010, 19:38
the only standards that u need to hold up are the ones that mean something to you. if you feel guilty for skiping a section that is your business and vice versa, if you skip a section and do not feel guilty so be it. i could care less what other people are doing on their hike. this doesnt mean i do not like or will not hike with that person and it also doesnt mean i am not interested in your hike. do what makes u feel good on your hike. but like lyle said dont be portraying yourself as a thruhiker when you may darn well know that you skiped too much of the trail, this can be annoying for sure. if your skipping sections at least acknowledge it too yourself and others that way the people around you will not talk why you may not be there. talk is cheap but it will hapen. be honest with your self and it will work out....if and when i thruhike the hole trail i will walk by every blaze that is attainable and feel that i did it the correct way. this should be the standard in the minds of true hikers anything else is well a little different. but too each their own.....i think i said this the way i want too...peace

Crunchygroovesbra
04-01-2010, 19:55
If the 2000 miler status can only be "honorably" achieved by people who actually hike all the white blazes, then why don't they call it a 2176 (or whatever the length of trail at time of completion) miler patch instead?

I always just assumed the patch is just a symbol of doing the whole trail and it is not about the actual miles, or even how you do them....I'm not saying planes,trains and automobiles, but a little road walking, aqua blazing and hitchhiking are all apart of the journey...

SGT Rock
04-01-2010, 19:58
Watch out. There are people here that will assault your character for doing it that way. :rolleyes:

Mags
04-01-2010, 19:59
Wash.
Rinse.
Repeat.

Same ole discussion has been going on for the almost 15 yrs I've been involved in this community.

Sure it will continue for 15 more years. :D

Cookerhiker
04-01-2010, 20:06
Looks like a lot of self centered mindness has worked its way from our busy hustle and bustle world to the freedom of the trail.. So typical of humans. So typical..

Actually, I miss reading the older journals of past where friends were made along the way and hikers helped other hikers..Just isnt that way any more from the sounds of this and other threads..: Hike your own hike attitude..What happened to the days of community on the traill.. Does the Trail Community even exists anymore..sad, so sad..

Seems like you're longing for the "good old days" which I'm not so sure were all that different than today. From my admittedly occasional readings of trail journals, I see a fair amount of helping each other and certainly many friendships formed. Are you really saying there's no "community" on the trail? That wasn't my experience.

HYOH to me means don't "should" on people: you should hike xx miles, you should use an alcohol stove, why don't you use a hammock, you should lighten your pack. The latter example was real-life directed to me (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=117260) on my Maine section hike.

Crunchygroovesbra
04-01-2010, 20:09
I actually plan on getting my 8000 miler patch...I have bad OCD and have to do things in groups of 4...

Sgt Rock, my character is bulletproof....its still April 1st right?

SGT Rock
04-01-2010, 20:15
I actually plan on getting my 8000 miler patch...I have bad OCD and have to do things in groups of 4...

Sgt Rock, my character is bulletproof....its still April 1st right?

Absolutely. :sun

DapperD
04-01-2010, 21:16
As I read through all the books about thru hiking along with the trail journals found online, I get the impression that there are no real standards for a thru hike...it seems like the philosophy out there is to "Hike Your Own Hike"....slack pack, blue blaze, flip flop, yellow blaze. What I am curious about is this....are white blazers who avoid slack packing and flip flopping in the minority? Are the white blazers usually older hikers? Does anyone have a problem with these alternative ways of hiking to avoid the demands of weather, trail and weight? Are there no overiding ethics out there?

I'd love to hear from you... LloydI don't really think you can tell who is going to wind up doing what out there as far as beginning a thru-hike and remaining vigilant and hiking every white-blazed mile with full pack from beginning to end. There are going to be people who drop out very soon after beginning their hikes who if you were to see them, you would probably not believe they would be quitting so early on. Then you will have people who set out who don't appear to know what they are doing out there, and maybe are out of shape and very slow, etc...but will persevere and will be successful. There are always going to be people who will decide to skip large sections of trail, etc...and then there will be people who would not dream of doing the aforementioned. It really boils down to what you decide to do once out there. If you fall in with a group of hikers who decide to jump ahead for what ever reason, then you may decide to do the same. This is where "Hike your own Hike" would fall in to play. You would need to decide what would be right for yourself. If this would not bother you, then you would go along with it. If you decided that this is something you do not want to do, then you would depart from your newly made hiker friends, and would remain behind. Also as far as becoming tired, sore, etc...and in need of rest days, say your friends don't want to rest or go into town, but you do. This is also where you would need to decide what is the right decision for yourself. Basically, as other's have said, no one is going to point a finger after the fact that you missed some section of trail due to deciding to take some blue-blazed side trails for water, etc....Only you will know what is right for you. Listen to your body and mind and make the right choices out there. As one person once said, how you begin your hike and how you will finish it will be vastly different. And since it will most likely be a once in a lifetime chance, take your time and have fun.

Lone Wolf
04-01-2010, 21:24
just walk. have fun. go home when it ain't fun no more

Jonnycat
04-02-2010, 08:20
Not everyone hikes for the "community experience" some of us start in January and go for days without seeing another human. And we like it that way. Some of us even conceive of changing how we hike the "standard thru-hike" to avoid the crowds of other hikers.

Don't get me wrong, I like people and generally would do anything for anyone in need, and can hold an interesting conversation with just about anyone. But I (and I suspect others) find a lot of the "trail community" a bit annoying to be stuck around all the time.

My sentiments exactly!

Blue Jay
04-02-2010, 09:02
As I read through all the books about thru hiking along with the trail journals found online, I get the impression that there are no real standards for a thru hike.

Congratulations, your impression is absolutely correct.

Mango
04-02-2010, 09:14
As far as defining thru-hiking, the standards are yours and yours alone. Just don't try to make your standards someone else's standards, because that's their business not yours.

For the 2000 miler patch from the ATC, they have criteria that you can find on their website.

I disagree. A thru-hike is hiking the entire trail in one season, or calendar year if you prefer. That eliminates yellow-blazing, skipping sections, etc. Because of occasional safety issues, you sometimes are well-advised to take a blue-blazed bypass, but those should be at least sanctioned by the ATC or posted by the local maintenance club. Note that direction or sequence or pack weight are not part of the definition.

lloyd528
04-02-2010, 16:25
Thanks for the input on my original question regarding a thru hike. The ATC's definition nails it. You don't need a pack to be considered a thru hiker. You can walk it any way you want, with or without a pack and it has to be at least 2000 miles over any period of time. I always thought it had to be done in one season. It says nothing about one season. I will keep thru hiking in perspective when, God willing, I do it next year. It used to be a big deal at one time, but now that I am 60, things have changed....oh well.

Mountain Wildman
04-02-2010, 16:46
If I remember correctly,
A Thru-Hike is started at one terminus and hiked straight through to the opposite terminus in the same season non stop.

Sectioning is hiking a complete trail at different times and distances or sections of the trail.

Flip Flop hikes part of the trail ie: Start at Katahdin and hike to say, Gorham.
Then go to Springer and hike from Springer to Gorham completing the whole trail.

All qualify for the 2000 miler patch once completed.
The Thru is all in the same year and Sectioning could take 20 years or whatever.
Flip Flop I'm not sure if it matters how long or when.

I may be wrong, I didn't look it up.
If my memory is correct, that's the deal.

max patch
04-02-2010, 17:13
Thanks for the input on my original question regarding a thru hike. The ATC's definition nails it. You don't need a pack to be considered a thru hiker. You can walk it any way you want, with or without a pack and it has to be at least 2000 miles over any period of time. I always thought it had to be done in one season. It says nothing about one season. I will keep thru hiking in perspective when, God willing, I do it next year. It used to be a big deal at one time, but now that I am 60, things have changed....oh well.

You are getting the definitions of "2,000 miles" and "thru hiker" mixed up. A 2,000 miler may or may not be a thru hiker. And its not "at least 2,000 miles. Its 2,179.1 miles. Every single one.

Graywolf
04-02-2010, 21:01
[QUOTE=lloyd528;996158]Graywolf, I am trying to read in between the lines here.... Are you saying that the "Hike Your Own Hike" is annoying or do agree with those who say that hiking is a personal thing?[/QUOT

Hiking is most surely a personal thing..We are all in the woods for different reasons for sure..The reason I have stated that remark s because I have seen it way too often when hikers would use it for against hikers who are looking for help..Thats all nothing personal...But when we do hike (Any trail) there was once a common bond between hikers. I feel this isnt the case anymore..But then i could be wrong and only seeing one side of the picture..But yes, Hiking is a personal thing..'

Here is one example, I wish I could find the thread: Several moths ago I saw a newbie here asking a very good question about equipment..Most of the replys the newbie recieved was "Hike your own hike".. Thats what I am talking about..

So that said, Hike your own hike, but I would gladly share the experiance with you..

Graywolf

Tinker
04-02-2010, 22:58
When someone starts giving out medals and/or cash awards for the completion of a thruhike, we might need some rules. Until then,
HYOH is THE rule. Let others be. You get out of your hike (or anything else in life) what you put into it. Doing it the hard way doesn't count any more than doing it the (or any) easy way.
Aside:
Isn't it interesting that
I couldn't care less, (I care as little as I possibly could) and
I could care less
Mean the same thing these days????
Strange language we Amurricans have. :D

white_russian
04-02-2010, 23:16
I disagree. A thru-hike is hiking the entire trail in one season, or calendar year if you prefer. That eliminates yellow-blazing, skipping sections, etc. Because of occasional safety issues, you sometimes are well-advised to take a blue-blazed bypass, but those should be at least sanctioned by the ATC or posted by the local maintenance club. Note that direction or sequence or pack weight are not part of the definition.
So what if someone hiked slow enough to continuously hike from Katahdin to Springer in more than a year? I am talking about taking no time off, just slowing way down and smelling lots of roses.

Tinker
04-02-2010, 23:31
So what if someone hiked slow enough to continuously hike from Katahdin to Springer in more than a year? I am talking about taking no time off, just slowing way down and smelling lots of roses.
That would be ideal, imo, and would make for a more interesting trail journal than "We hiked 33 miles today, got into camp and fell asleep."
The most interesting reads I've had, journal-wise, are about how hikers interacted with townsfolk when they stopped to observe (and participate in) a lifestyle foreign to their own.

Blue Jay
04-03-2010, 09:29
You are getting the definitions of "2,000 miles" and "thru hiker" mixed up. A 2,000 miler may or may not be a thru hiker. And its not "at least 2,000 miles. Its 2,179.1 miles. Every single one.

Are you sure it's not 2,179.1314?:-?

lloyd528
04-03-2010, 10:42
You are getting the definitions of "2,000 miles" and "thru hiker" mixed up. A 2,000 miler may or may not be a thru hiker. And its not "at least 2,000 miles. Its 2,179.1 miles. Every single one.

You are right...the ATC does not define a thru-hiker only "2,000 milers"...for the record, here it is..........After all of this discussion I have a better understanding of thru hiking, 2,000 mile-ing and the "journey" one takes on for oneself on the Appalachian Trail. It's not a contest for winners and losers....it's actually looking more like a spiritual journey than a physical endurance test. Either way, there is something for everyone who does it, with or without a pack....for a hare or a tortoise.

How does ATC define thru-hiking?

We don't. ATC uses the term "2,000-miler" as a matter of tradition and convenience. ATC defines a "2,000-miler" as anyone who has hiked the entire Trail between Springer Mountain in Georgia and Katahdin in Maine. We don't consider issues such as the sequence, direction, speed or whether one carries a pack. We do expect that persons applying for inclusion in our 2,000-miler records have made an honest effort to walk the entire Trail.

Graywolf
04-03-2010, 17:10
That would be ideal, imo, and would make for a more interesting trail journal than "We hiked 33 miles today, got into camp and fell asleep."
The most interesting reads I've had, journal-wise, are about how hikers interacted with townsfolk when they stopped to observe (and participate in) a lifestyle foreign to their own.


In my calculations, hiking the trail in a year would be 6 miles a day..Not bad..Could be interesting..Lots of folks like to make the trail a race..Hmmmm.. That said,

Your right!! I have been looking at some journals lately that is completely a 180* turn from how they were in say, late 90's early millinieum..I read back then journals that not only described towns and there stay but also made very good comments about the trail and trail community altogether..Now I am readin way too many journals that tend to be akin to "crying" and "complaining" then actually enjoying the reason your hiking..I agree, I like the more detailed journals, myself..

Graywolf

Kaptain Kangaroo
04-03-2010, 17:16
It's your hike..... you do it in whatever manner or style that gives you the experience that you are looking for. If that means hitchhiking some sections, doing alternative trails, paddling a canoe for 50 miles etc. etc., that's fine. That is still a challenging & rewarding journey.

But show some integrity when it comes to describing your trip.
To me "Thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail" means just that, hiking the entire length of the AT.

Think of it this way.... if someone tells you that they climbed Mt Everest, you would assume that they started at base camp and climbed under their own power all the way to the summit....... If they didn't quite make it to the top, or if they got a ride in a helicopter part of the way......would you still agree that they had climbed Mt Everest ?????????

If someone tells me that they thru-hiked the AT, I expect that they have hiked past every white blaze between Springer & Katahdin in a single journey.

Doing it differently is still challenging & would be an amazing & life changing experience.

But an 'AT Thru-hike' is just what it says........

Cheers & good hiking.

HYOH (ha ha)

Kaptain

kayak karl
04-03-2010, 17:38
i don't know if i would even want to be a "THRU HIKER" don't know if i'd like the company. i think i'll continue on my 10 year plan to be ,hiker trash. :D

Graywolf
04-03-2010, 19:05
It's your hike..... you do it in whatever manner or style that gives you the experience that you are looking for. If that means hitchhiking some sections, doing alternative trails, paddling a canoe for 50 miles etc. etc., that's fine. That is still a challenging & rewarding journey.

But show some integrity when it comes to describing your trip.
To me "Thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail" means just that, hiking the entire length of the AT.

Think of it this way.... if someone tells you that they climbed Mt Everest, you would assume that they started at base camp and climbed under their own power all the way to the summit....... If they didn't quite make it to the top, or if they got a ride in a helicopter part of the way......would you still agree that they had climbed Mt Everest ?????????

If someone tells me that they thru-hiked the AT, I expect that they have hiked past every white blaze between Springer & Katahdin in a single journey.

Doing it differently is still challenging & would be an amazing & life changing experience.

But an 'AT Thru-hike' is just what it says........

Cheers & good hiking.

HYOH (ha ha)

Kaptain

Agreed, a thru hike is just that, A THRU-HIKE!!! A section hike is a section hike, a hike is, well, a hike..

But then what constitutes a section hike from just a hike?? The guide books are broke down into many sections, some as short as a few miles, where others as long as 20 or more miles..So if you did a short section in less then a day, would that constitute a "Section Hike"?? Many, many choices for the hiker..But then, once the hiker completes the complete trail, even though he did it in sections, he, to me is still a 2000 miler, because he did do it!!! have to give some lee way here..Some folks just cant get off work for that long a period to do a complete thru..

But I will, by 2012..Have to get it done before disaster hits,..

Graywolf

kayak karl
04-03-2010, 19:23
have to give some lee way here..Graywolf
your joking right, give some lee way. THEY HIKED IT!!

white_russian
04-03-2010, 19:32
Think of it this way.... if someone tells you that they climbed Mt Everest, you would assume that they started at base camp and climbed under their own power all the way to the summit....... If they didn't quite make it to the top, or if they got a ride in a helicopter part of the way......would you still agree that they had climbed Mt Everest ?????????

So if someone flies halfway up Denali they didn't climb Denali?

sheepdog
04-03-2010, 20:45
just get out and walk


forget about definitions


they make you crazy

Lone Wolf
04-03-2010, 21:01
"i'd rather be a lone wolf than a sheeple"
fishin' fred

Graywolf
04-04-2010, 00:41
your joking right, give some lee way. THEY HIKED IT!!

My point exactly..And as the other poster said, Yes, just get out and DO IT!! Hiking dosnt take "Ettiquete 101", its not rocket science ( unless you carry a Pocket Rocket:D).. Just get out and hike..I think I had a shirt that said something like that.."Just Do IT!!""

And as Lone Wolf said,

Better to hike alone, that way you can do it your way..

Graywolf..

firehiker
04-05-2010, 19:40
Obviously, to each their own, but me if I ever plan a thru-hike like I hope to, my plan will be to walk every step with my pack on my back. Anything less, and I wouldn't say that I thru-hiked.

double d
04-05-2010, 19:52
As I read through all the books about thru hiking along with the trail journals found online, I get the impression that there are no real standards for a thru hike...it seems like the philosophy out there is to "Hike Your Own Hike"....slack pack, blue blaze, flip flop, yellow blaze. What I am curious about is this....are white blazers who avoid slack packing and flip flopping in the minority? Are the white blazers usually older hikers? Does anyone have a problem with these alternative ways of hiking to avoid the demands of weather, trail and weight? Are there no overiding ethics out there?

I'd love to hear from you... Lloyd

Good questions Lloyd and many of us here at WB have given you some interesting answers. I'm not sure what you mean by "ethics", some folks hike and then miss parts of the trail and still call themselves "thru-hikers" while some folks hike much of the trail, but not all and call themselves "2,000 milers", but overall the trail is yours to enjoy as you wish and do so while the time is short in our lives.

SGT Rock
04-05-2010, 19:59
You are getting the definitions of "2,000 miles" and "thru hiker" mixed up. A 2,000 miler may or may not be a thru hiker. And its not "at least 2,000 miles. Its 2,179.1 miles. Every single one.Something to think about - lots of people call themselves thru-hikers out on the trail. If you follow the exact definition of a thru-hiker that Max patch uses (and his is actually the definition of the purist 2000 miler go figure) - well you aren't a thru-hiker until you finish if you get all anal.

If you see Max Patch you can't tell him you are a thru-hiker until you are done. Almost everyone else could care less. You are what you call yourself.

I think even the ATC uses the term "reasonable" in their definition. Purists forget what reasonable means. Otherwise they would HAVE to take Earl's first hike from him.

JJJ
04-05-2010, 21:11
This thread reminds me of the opening -and my favorite lines- of "The Way of Life, According to Lau Tzu translated by By Witter Bynner

Existence is beyond the power of words
To define:
But are none of them absolute.
In the beginning of heaven and earth there were no words,
Words came out of the womb of matter;
And whether a man dispassionately
Sees to the core
Or passionately
Sees the surface.
The core and the surface
Are essentially the same,
Words making them seem different
Only to express appearance.
If Name be needed, wonder names them both:
From wonder into wonder
Existence opens.

Lone Wolf
04-05-2010, 21:14
basically, humans are so full of themselves and think they're really somethin'

Crunchygroovesbra
04-05-2010, 21:35
[QUOTE=SGT Rock;997503]Something to think about - lots of people call themselves thru-hikers out on the trail. If you follow the exact definition of a thru-hiker that Max patch uses (and his is actually the definition of the purist 2000 miler go figure) - well you aren't a thru-hiker until you finish if you get all anal.

..ifyou really want to be a stickler...
Assuming that Sgt. Rock is correct, than no one can ever be a thru hiker while they are actually hiking. It is only after they are finished hiking the whole trail they "earn" the name. So, for one to be called a thru-hiker, they are actually not hiking at all....Semantics?Most certainly...definitions are made by people, people are silly....defining a thru hiker by any standards...is also silly...

SGT Rock
04-05-2010, 21:39
..ifyou really want to be a stickler...
Assuming that Sgt. Rock is correct, than no one can ever be a thru hiker while they are actually hiking. It is only after they are finished hiking the whole trail they "earn" the name. So, for one to be called a thru-hiker, they are actually not hiking at all....Semantics?Most certainly...definitions are made by people, people are silly....defining a thru hiker by any standards...is also silly...

I think you just summed up the point I was making. ;)

lloyd528
04-05-2010, 21:43
Obviously, to each their own, but me if I ever plan a thru-hike like I hope to, my plan will be to walk every step with my pack on my back. Anything less, and I wouldn't say that I thru-hiked.

Firehiker, why do you feel that way? Do you think your view of "thru hiking" is a majority or minority view? or do you think hikers are split on this? Just curious.

SGT Rock
04-05-2010, 21:47
I've heard some folks refuse to ride in a car during their hike. I remember one year a guy refused to bathe during his hike. Some folks require themselves to start hiking from the same side of the road they got a hitch from and even walk as far as they can into blow downs instead of walking around them.

They put rules on their own hikes. More power too them. It's healthy unless they demand others do the same, then it more like a cult religion.

prain4u
04-05-2010, 22:40
Looks like a lot of self centered mindness has worked its way from our busy hustle and bustle world to the freedom of the trail.. So typical of humans. So typical..

Actually, I miss reading the older journals of past where friends were made along the way and hikers helped other hikers..Just isnt that way any more from the sounds of this and other threads..: Hike your own hike attitude..What happened to the days of community on the traill.. Does the Trail Community even exists anymore..sad, so sad..


Seems like you're longing for the "good old days" which I'm not so sure were all that different than today. From my admittedly occasional readings of trail journals, I see a fair amount of helping each other and certainly many friendships formed. Are you really saying there's no "community" on the trail? That wasn't my experience.

HYOH to me means don't "should" on people: you should hike xx miles, you should use an alcohol stove, why don't you use a hammock, you should lighten your pack. The latter example was real-life directed to me (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=117260) on my Maine section hike.


I am not a thru hiker. I have not hiked much of the AT--yet. Most of my hiking has been done elsewhere. (My first day hike was around 40 years ago. My first multi-week hike was 32 years ago).

I think there is a great deal of truth to BOTH of the above posts.

I think Cookerhiker is correct in the following ways: There is still a sense of "community" among hikers. Hikers still have fellowship with each other. They enjoy each other's company and they still help one another. Most hikers tend to be decent people who are polite, cordial, and who will help out a fellow hiker in a time of need. I think that, for many people, these basic elements have not changed very much--or at all--over the past 30+ years. HOW these things manifest themselves has perhaps changed in 30+ years--but the basic principles remain unchanged. (That might be what Graywolf is noticing too).

I have noticed the following changes:

1) Many more people today tend to be "loners" or "independent" and they value their privacy more than they did 30-40 years ago. Sure, most of us still associate with other persons as we hike and as we camp--but most people tend to spend the bulk of their time alone in our society. This is true on the trail--and it is also true in our regular neighborhoods as well. Many people cannot tell you the names of the other persons in their neighborhood. Neighbors don't spend anywhere near as much time together as they did 30-40 years ago. This phenomenon trickles down to our interactions on the trail. We spend more time alone or within our own small group or "clique"

2) 30 years ago--I think there was more of a tendency to actually INTERACT with other people as you encountered them on the trail--at least for a few sentences as you passed by each other. Today, I see more people just nod to each other as they pass on the trail. They might not even vocally say "Hi". Some people even avoid eye contact altogether as they pass. There have always been some people like that--but today there seem to be more people who hike with an invisible "Do not disturb" sign attached to them.

3) Compared to 30+ years ago, I see more people who appear to be in a "hurry" to get somewhere as they hike. I see more hikers with a "determined" (almost "grumpy") look on their face. They hike at a fast pace, head down, Leki poles flying as they move briskly down the trail. They don't appear to be enjoying themselves as they hike. They seem like they are very determined to achieve a specific goal or task. They have turned hiking into another "job" or a another thing on a "to do" list that must be accomplished on a certain timetable. There are still many people who enjoy themselves and relax as they hike--but this "driven" group is increasing in size.

4) I think there is (among certain crowds) a greater lack of respect for other people than there was 30 years ago. They take HYOH to mean that they can do whatever they want--and if that negatively impacts someone else's hike that is the OTHER person's problem. The only thing that matters to them is that they get what THEY want. (The heck with everyone else). There have always been some people like this. However, I believe this attitude is more common today than it was 30-40 years ago. You can sometimes go for years and never encounter them. Other times, it seems like they are EVERYWHERE.

5) I think there is more of a "class system" among hikers than there was 30-40 years ago. People have always divided themselves into groups. However, I think today we make bigger distinctions between one another based upon things such as pack weight, cost of equipment, a person's age, trail experience etc. I think that today we have more of a sense of hiking "Communities" than a sense of a common hiking "community". (I think this phenomenon partially explains the difference in the opinions of Graywolf and Cookerhiker. The positive things of the trail still happen--but I think they happen more in the midst of smaller hiking communities than in a common community).

These are just my observations. I am CERTAIN that many will beg to differ--some vehemently so. (After all, that is the nature of WhiteBlaze! :))

Mags
04-05-2010, 23:14
30 yrs ago I was five years old.
40 yrs ago I was not born.

That is all.

Thank you.

max patch
04-06-2010, 00:50
Something to think about - lots of people call themselves thru-hikers out on the trail. If you follow the exact definition of a thru-hiker that Max patch uses (and his is actually the definition of the purist 2000 miler go figure) - well you aren't a thru-hiker until you finish if you get all anal.

If you see Max Patch you can't tell him you are a thru-hiker until you are done. Almost everyone else could care less. You are what you call yourself.



I've never said that.

Johnny Appleseed
04-06-2010, 01:36
There is the Ray Jardine way.





Also a Johnny Appleseed way, but that is a secret.

SGT Rock
04-06-2010, 06:23
I've never said that.

Nope, but if you follow your exact definition of a thru-hiker:


And its not "at least 2,000 miles. Its 2,179.1 miles. Every single one.
Someone that has walked EVERY MILE, well you can't know you are going to until you finish, and even then you could still be wrong.

And you haven't walked all 2,179.1 miles to count in your book until you are done (I'm using your definition).

Earl's first hike didn't cover ever mile. And some of his misses were not for high water, weather, or other reroutes. He just plain missed them. And when he found out, he didn't go back and get them before he claimed 2000 miler status.

Hmmmm :-?

Lone Wolf
04-06-2010, 06:29
earl and gatewood both did questionable "thru-hikes"

rickb
04-06-2010, 07:03
HYOH to me means don't "should" on people: you should hike xx miles, you should use an alcohol stove, why don't you use a hammock, you should lighten your pack. The latter example was real-life directed to me (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=117260) on my Maine section hike.I am thinking that is (or should be) just 1/2 of what HYOH means.

The other half is (or should be) about being true to yourself, making your own discoveries, and not being unduly influenced by those who have gone before.

With the clans, cliques, and claptrap of paint-by-numbers guidebooks and surfeit of info on how to do things "right", I think that is getting harder all the time.

FWIW, I think it worth noting that the 2000 Miler Award is not given out not by a hiking organization, but by a Trail organization.

I think the distinction is important. As a Trail organization, its always held dear the idea of creating unbroken path from Maine to Georgia. As a trail organization, any break in that path would be unacceptable. Even when miles and miles were nothing more than the shoulder of a highway, it was important to the club that those ugly stretches be marked and mapped and included.

Little wonder that this Trail organization created a token for those who claim to have walked that entire connected path (or made every effort to do so), rather than create one for those who hiked a great ways without seeing a need to.

Old Hiker
04-06-2010, 07:43
[QUOTE=lloyd528;996158]

So that said, Hike your own hike, but I would gladly share the experiance with you..

Graywolf

Graywolf,

I cut out quite a bit of your post, but this is EXACTLY why I came to White Blaze, Trail Journals and Hammock Hangers. Here's my question..... here are some answers...... I can pick and choose what I think will work for me so I can hike my own hike. I have learned a LOT since I have been looking around and posting. Hammock expertise, advice on a new tent for my wife, MREs, meal prep, stoves, sleeping bags, cold weather clothing and other information that will be intensely valuable when I start (hopefully) my thru in 2012.

When my Scout Troop started section hiking 3 years ago, I got a crazy compulsion that I had to touch every white blaze I saw as I moved forward. I'm not sure why I had to do this, but it did keep my head up and looking forward a lot more than normal instead of just looking at my boots. That's been my hike up to now. I didn't count them, I just touched them.

MY definition to be a thru-hiker (ME - MINE - you can't have it!!!) is for ME to start at Springer on 29 Feb 2012 and walk to Katadin before my school year starts on 24 Aug 2012, on the AT, past every white blaze I can see. Since I would like the respect of other "thru-hikers", I want to make sure I "thru-hike" at least to my artificial definition.

HYOH and hope to see you all on the Trail and make some friends out there.

Jaybird
04-06-2010, 07:53
As I read through all the books about thru hiking along with the trail journals found online, I get the impression that there are no real standards for a thru hike...it seems like the philosophy out there is to "Hike Your Own Hike"....slack pack, blue blaze, flip flop, yellow blaze. What I am curious about is this....are white blazers who avoid slack packing and flip flopping in the minority?......................Lloyd



Lloyd, i'm afraid US White Blazers are getting fewer & fewer...i read trail journals...all year to keep me PUMPED for my 2-week section hike each spring...lots of BLUE BLAZING & YELLOW BLAZING going on...
("Not that theres anything WRONG with that"-Seinfeld quote)

but it IS a very personal THANG! Your hike!:D

Section-hikin' Clarks Valley,PA NOBO to Greenwood Lake,NY
Apr 24-May 8....WHITE BLAZES....ALL THE WAY!

SGT Rock
04-06-2010, 08:02
[QUOTE=Graywolf;996623]
MY definition to be a thru-hiker (ME - MINE - you can't have it!!!) is for ME to start at Springer on 29 Feb 2012 and walk to Katadin before my school year starts on 24 Aug 2012, on the AT, past every white blaze I can see. Since I would like the respect of other "thru-hikers", I want to make sure I "thru-hike" at least to my artificial definition.

HYOH and hope to see you all on the Trail and make some friends out there.
Great post.:sun

berkshirebirder
04-06-2010, 08:04
Little wonder that this Trail organization created a token for those who claim to have walked that entire connected path (or made every effort to do so), rather than create one for those who hiked a great ways without seeing a need to.

Clearly, anyone setting foot on the Trail should get a badge, including:

The HALO (Hiked a Lot of) the Appalachian Trail
The DTGASAM (Drove to Gaps and Slept at Motels)

Pedaling Fool
04-06-2010, 08:37
I've heard some folks refuse to ride in a car during their hike. I remember one year a guy refused to bathe during his hike. Some folks require themselves to start hiking from the same side of the road they got a hitch from and even walk as far as they can into blow downs instead of walking around them.

They put rules on their own hikes. More power too them. It's healthy unless they demand others do the same, then it more like a cult religion.
In 2005 when I was preparing for my thru-hike I heard stories like Sgt Rock's and thought that they were exaggerated. Then I witnessed various examples firsthand during my hike; the craziest was during a break in SNP.

I was taking a break at a picnic table (Pinnacles Picnic Area) two brothers that I'd been semi-hiking with emerged from the woods and crossed the street to join me in a break. They departed before me and walked back toward the trail. They spent about 30 seconds (30 long seconds) arguing where exactly they got off the trail, so as not to miss one inch of the AT.

An example of radicalized Thru-hikers.

lloyd528
04-06-2010, 09:06
[QUOTE=Jaybird;997646]
Lloyd, i'm afraid US White Blazers are getting fewer & fewer...i read trail journals...all year to keep me PUMPED for my 2-week section hike each spring...lots of BLUE BLAZING & YELLOW BLAZING going on...
("Not that theres anything WRONG with that"-Seinfeld quote)

but it IS a very personal THANG! Your hike!:D

Jaybird, I like the Seinfeld way of hiking the best so far....whenever you question someone's method of getting to Maine, say to yourself..."there is nothing wrong with that"

Blue Jay
04-07-2010, 16:33
In 2005 when I was preparing for my thru-hike I heard stories like Sgt Rock's and thought that they were exaggerated. Then I witnessed various examples firsthand during my hike; the craziest was during a break in SNP.

I was taking a break at a picnic table (Pinnacles Picnic Area) two brothers that I'd been semi-hiking with emerged from the woods and crossed the street to join me in a break. They departed before me and walked back toward the trail. They spent about 30 seconds (30 long seconds) arguing where exactly they got off the trail, so as not to miss one inch of the AT.

An example of radicalized Thru-hikers.

My favorite anal purist used golf ball green markers if his foot had to leave the trail so he could avoid this extremely serious "problem". You could actually see his blood pressure rise if someone even mentioned slack packing. I enjoyed hiking with him very much as he was hilarious.

Blue Jay
04-07-2010, 16:34
earl and gatewood both did questionable "thru-hikes"

They're dead, get over it.:banana

Blue Jay
04-07-2010, 16:40
Purists forget what reasonable means.

I don't think they forget, they just refuse to go there. Somehow if you miss their 0.1 mile it negates their thru for some reason only they are know.:-?