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Miss Janet
10-12-2004, 22:49
It is with a certain amount of anger and saddness that I feel that Ihave to start letting the AT community know about a situation. I am angry because the authorities can't seem to catch this guy!! I am angry and saddened that one "hiker" can cause so much trouble to the AT community. It is a constant effort to educate our communities about who hikers are and why they should be welcome in our towns. Then, in just a few days, I am afraid that this "hiker" has hurt the effort to promote hikers as more than homeless vagrants and thieves. (I am thinking of all kinds of new uses for Duck Tape right now!!) I have double checked these details and I believe these to be mostly accurate.


Several weeks ago a hiker that was going by the name of "SAVED" was hiking southbound in PA and stole a girls food bag and some other items. He was later confronted by other hikers and forced to make restitution to this hiker. SAVED left hiking south.

A couple of weeks later a man wearing hiking gear broke into a home in Wintergreen where he traded his stuff for nice, newer, hiking gear...
( Wingfoot sent service providers a list of the gear that was stolen and a description of the man) He cooked himself some food, resupplied himself, stole a car and drove away. The car was later found near Bland, Va. A decription of the man seen in the area was put out by the Wintergreen police. Hikers identified him as SAVED. These hikers were able to give a very detailed description to the police:

Late 20's - Early 30's, 5'10. 160 pounds, very dark hair cut short and a black beard.
He is from Rhode Island and has a distinct accent.
He has numerous "Celtic or Japanesee type" tribal tattoos on his neck, shoulders, arms and legs. At one time he was carrying an ornamental machette. He is still believed to be carrying a bayonette.
Hikers have reported him as being very "friendly and nice" and he seems to have been well liked by some people. This may explain partly why he has not been caught.

For the last couple of weeks Southbound Thruhikers have seen SAVED many times and reported his whereabouts to the police. Despite several middle of the night raids on shelters in Southern Va by police with flashlights... they did not catch him. At one time a hiker told the police where and when SAVED would be at a road crossing. The hiker later saw Saved right there, when he said he would be there, but there were no police.

SoBo's have reported seeing him recently in both Catawba and Pearisburg. He is suspected of stealing a car ?? in Southwest, Va a few days ago. This car was found at Indian Grave Gap here in Unicoi County two nights ago. Yesterday a red, Nissan Pathfinder was stolen 9 miles south on the AT near the Nolichucky river. Police are still looking for SAVED and request that any information be directed to the Unicoi County Sheriffs Department.

Last night at 11"O clock on our TriCity wide local news the opening Headline was "APPALACHIAN TRAIL THIEF!". Within minutes I was receiving phone calls! The local radio station ran the story this morning as well as the local paper. More phone calls! This "thief" seems to have no concept of right and wrong and no respect for other people's things or the AT. I am afraid that this has already hurt the AT community... in the eyes of many in this area and I hope he will be picked up soon before he causes more damage. No one seems to think he is "dangerous" but he is certainly hurting every single one of us in the long run!

steve hiker
10-12-2004, 22:55
lemme no where he is and i'll drop a slick doodoo in his path and trip him up pronto

TakeABreak
10-12-2004, 23:34
Has anyone been able to get a picture of this *******, could it be elwood?

Tha Wookie
10-13-2004, 00:52
Damn yellow-blazers

Lugnut
10-13-2004, 01:01
Last week I was hiking from 4 Pines to Bearwallow Gap and I remember seeing his entry in one of the registers. I don't remember which one; just thought it was an interesting name so it stuck with me. As far as I know I didn't meet him but did see Jack Straw, Flounder, Fly and a couple others. One of them may have a picture.

weary
10-13-2004, 02:00
This is a terribly ominous threat to the trail. I tend to trust people. My doors are never locked, well not since the windows of my ancient 1940 Buick began to being broken every evening in an alley way in Chicago 55 years ago.

My theory? The car was pretty worthless. Nothing inside had any value. Why compound the damage by locking the door?

If truth be known, I haven't locked much of anything since. A decade or so ago someone broke in (well actually, they walked in because I hadn't locked my doors in years) and stole part of my stereo gear.

After that I locked the doors religiously -- for a week or so. Then logic took hold. If anyone really wanted to break in, I realized, they would need only to break one of the sidelight windows, reach in and turn the knob, even easier than breaking the windows of my long gone, but dearly beloved ancient Buick.

Short of buying into a gated community, something I have never been able to afford, sneak theives cannot be stopped.

Especially on trails.

Weary

Peaks
10-13-2004, 08:43
Another example of how the actions of one individual can impact things for everyone.

Alligator
10-13-2004, 09:02
REGION 8

George Washington and Jefferson NF’s –On 10/1, LEI employees responded to a call for assistance from Appalachian Trail NP and the Wintergreen, VA PD personnel regarding a southbound hiker wanted for questioning in connection with three burglaries and auto theft. Several interviews were conducted and the search narrowed to a six-mile section of the trail and a trail shelter on the New River Valley RD. The search continued into the night with no results. Indications are the suspect left the trail, but it is anticipated he will to return to the trail and continue south.

chknfngrs
10-13-2004, 09:18
Keep us posted! I love this trail and can't imagine the actions of one no-talent assclown will take down the whole thing.

tlbj6142
10-13-2004, 09:22
could it be elwood?The descriptions don't match. Elwood is quite a bit older with gray hair and no one has ever mentioned tatoos.

The personalities don't seem to match either. Elwood comes across as a wimpy thief. This guy seems to have some balls.

Lone Wolf
10-13-2004, 10:06
I talked to a SOBO here in Damascus this morning who has hiked with this Saved guy. Says he's a really nice guy. Helps out hikers. Apperently he was suicidal at one time and someone steered him to the AT. Now he's "saved". :D I'll be on the lookout for the wiley bastard.

Crash! Bang!
10-13-2004, 10:14
this is worse than the guy posing as a park ranger this year

MDSHiker
10-13-2004, 10:14
Thanks Miss Janet !

trailangelmary
10-18-2004, 02:47
I was the trailangel that helped him make the articles that he stole from another hiker right. I mailed the stolen belongings back to her and had him do work in my home to earn food that I purchased and sent to her. I am going to try to upload a pic of him. :-?

trailangelmary
10-18-2004, 02:50
P.S. It saddens me that there are people out there that are giving the wonderful people that I have met that hike the trail a bad name. Hopefully, people will realize that he is one bad apple from a giant tree of great ones.

Lugnut
10-18-2004, 08:58
Isn't it a little ironic that in the photo he is wearing a "Stealer" T-shirt? :D

chknfngrs
10-18-2004, 09:12
any luck finding this turd?

c4jc88
10-18-2004, 13:32
I saw this guy in SNP back around Labor Day and he told me his whole suicidal story... I just hiked the section from Catawba to Buena Vista last week.. and thought it was strange that I saw register entries from him near catwaba but not as I went north.. strange.. thats too bad he seemed like a nice guy...


Coasty

orangebug
10-21-2004, 00:01
Here is an update on Saved and request for assistance from the NPS. Copied from another list.

> Greetings Deep South club leaders,
>
> Our NPS law enforcement partners need your club's help with a couple of
> law enforcement issues.
>
> ********
>
> First, they are asking for assistance in finding a stolen vehicle taken
> from an A.T. trailhead near Erwin, TN. They believe it will or has
> already been abandoned at an A.T. trailhead south of Erwin, TN. Here's
> some information on the vehicle:
>
> 1997 Red Nissan Pathfinder SUV
> North Carolina license plate = NZX9070
>
> If anyone in your club were to spot this car, please contact:
>
> 911
>
> Ranger Todd Remaley @ (301) 639-0167 cell
> @ (717) 258-5771 x205 office
> @ [email protected]
>
> Investigator Steve Southworth @ (434) 989-7607 cell
> @ (540) 471-3144 office
>
> The NPS would like to learn of this ASAP, so we encourage your folks to
> try contacting 911 or the names listed ASAP if you have any information.
>
> *********
>
> Secondly, they are looking for information on the whereabouts of an A.T.
> hiker who they believe to be linked to several stolen cars (the car
> mentioned above and 2 others recovered at A.T. trailheads south of where
> they were stolen from). This individual was last seen on the A.T. south
> of the Nolichucky River and is wanted for questioning in Virginia and
> there also have been two arrest warrants issued for him. Here's some
> information on the individual:
>
> Trail name = "Saved"
> Real name = David Lescoe
> Age = 33
> Height = approximately 6'
> Weight = approximately 160 pounds
> Physical description = White male with dark hair, possibly a dark beard,
> and tatoos on the wrist, arms, shoulders, and calf
>
> He is known to carry knives but is not considered dangerous. He should
> NOT be alerted to the fact that he is being saught as he is considered a
> flight risk. He is believed to be carrying stolen camping gear. Please
> observe items (i.e. clothing, boots, camping gear, etc.) in his possession
> and if possible, document him with his gear in a photo. Be sure NOT to
> alert him to why you're taking his picture.
>
> **********
>
> Please pass this message on to your club folks and ask them to report any
> information they might have ASAP to 911 or the same contacts above.
> We'd like to catch this guy, remove him from the trail, and let the
> authorities prosecute.
>
> Thanks,
> ATC
> --
> Matthew Davis
> ATC Associate Regional Representative
> for Ga., N.C., and Tenn.
>
> P.O. Box 2750
> Asheville, NC 28802
> 828.254.3708 Phone
> 828.254.3754 Fax
>
> Visit our website at http://www.appalachiantrail.org
>

Woody5
10-21-2004, 08:53
received update to post on the NHC website indicating a photo available.
cannot seem to locate the photo - would someone please let us know where we can
find the photo - thanks

jlb2012
10-21-2004, 09:20
a photo is attached to trailangelmary's post above

Youngblood
10-21-2004, 11:16
Is there a simply way to make it harder/impossible for him to steal a vehicle, like removing some small, lightweight item that you can easily carry with you? Of course, it would need to be easy to remove, install and have the vehicle work after you do this.

Youngblood

TakeABreak
10-21-2004, 11:20
are you talking about the ignition fuse???

Alligator
10-21-2004, 12:20
Take the rotor out if it there is one. Although I think newer cars no longer have them. Our Subaru does not.

orangebug
10-21-2004, 12:36
Or remove/disconnect the ignition wire from the coil to the distributor. The rotor removal is my favorite means to disable a vehicle.

Lone Wolf
10-21-2004, 12:51
Or stake out the vehicle and as he breaks in, blow his s**t away! Problem solved. Outta the gene pool. :D

Youngblood
10-21-2004, 14:15
Okay, I've been waiting for the ultralight backpacker way is to take the key and the real backpacker way is to take the battery. :)

MOWGLI
10-21-2004, 14:57
Okay, I've been waiting for the ultralight backpacker way is to take the key and the real backpacker way is to take the battery. :)

You gotta be kidding? An ultralite hiker would never carry the key! They'd cache it in the woods somewhere near the car. :D

Youngblood
10-21-2004, 15:43
Mowgli,

Could be that is how he is getting them started... finding hidden keyes? You have to be practical on this ultralight stuff you know.

Youngblood

BooBoo
10-22-2004, 01:15
Its so saddening to hear about stuff like this. Some said that this Saved seemed like a nice guy. Bonzo seemed like a nice guy too.

TakeABreak
10-22-2004, 06:36
L wolf, I like your way of thinking. And agree with it hole heartedly, sadly our society is so screwed the majority would disagree. So if any does follow his remember the three S's, S---- S----- and S--- the F--- up.

Most thief's and are nice people, thats why 90% of home breakins are done by someone you know. Mine was broke into by a guy I grew up with, he and sisters boy friend broke into my house 20 years, sadly he and his sister are siblings to my brother inlaw who is truely a really nice guy.

Most pedifiles appear to be nice people. Most serial killers appear to be very nice people on the outside, thats why they are so successful at it.

trailangelmary
10-28-2004, 02:45
OK...enough of the bull**** about the psychological **** that makes a person do these kinds of things. Yes, he seemed like a really nice guy but he needs HELP. He has been avoiding the police and...... probably most hikers, just like most people, don't want to get involved. And he may even be reading all these posts and laughing his ass off!!!! So now what?

orangebug
10-28-2004, 05:56
The psychological discussions of this thief are appropriate as a reminder that a good sociopath is a friendly sociopath. Your street smarts have to remain on guard, even in the back country. This guy probably does not follow the internet discussions of him. This guy does not need our help, but is probably quite skilled at eliciting our help. Anyone who is familiar with yogi-ing is familiar with this guy's MO, except he also steals cars, gear and other valuables.

The earlier alerts of the NPS are designed to help hikes stay alert without alarming us. Frankly, I'd recommend caution if you see this guy and recognize him. He is said to not be dangerous, but he has not been cornered or confronted yet. Watch your back around this guy and let someone else be the hero - such as law enforcement officers.

Lone Wolf
10-28-2004, 07:24
Help? How liberal of you Mary. Let's take up a collection for his defense fund. The poor dear probably got no hugs as a child. :rolleyes:

Flash Hand
10-28-2004, 16:22
Its so saddening to hear about stuff like this. Some said that this Saved seemed like a nice guy. Bonzo seemed like a nice guy too.

What about Uncle Johnny? :bse


Flash Hand :jump

U-BOLT
10-29-2004, 03:33
Most thief's and are nice people, thats why 90% of home breakins are done by someone you know. Mine was broke into by a guy I grew up with, he and sisters boy friend broke into my house 20 years, sadly he and his sister are siblings to my brother inlaw who is truely a really nice guy. That's why it's better to be around a freak'n butthole! :D

Kozmic Zian
10-30-2004, 00:45
Yea......Look.....If the guy's stealing and using The Trail as a means to steal and hide out, no sympathy is neccessary. Get his ass off of The Trail ASAP. Just another AH out there trying to screw it all up for the rest of us who like to hike.
I wish these guys with lots o' problems would either leave them at home or forgetabout the AT. I quess that's one of the unforseen problems with an 'urbanlike trail', it's so easy to access that any AH with problems can get up there and because of the inherent freedom one feels, release all their pent up problems on the world and us hikers. Well, it's not the place or the time, and the sooner they get him the better, cause if someone's up there like that when I am, I hate to think of what it might cause me to do. I don't want to think about that kind of stuff up on The Trail. I'd rather just hike and forgetaboutit.......KZ@

Freeze
10-30-2004, 11:19
I i were to run into this guy, i would wait for him to go get water or go to the privi, and burn all his gear. then he could freeze to death overnight.
Problem solved.
I have 0% tolerance towards thiefs.
:banana

Flash Hand
10-30-2004, 17:45
I i were to run into this guy, i would wait for him to go get water or go to the privi, and burn all his gear. then he could freeze to death overnight.
Problem solved.
I have 0% tolerance towards thiefs.
:banana


Then I assume your 100% perfect and sin-free?

Flash Hand :jump

fishinfred
10-30-2004, 22:56
Sounds like a Posse of hikers is in order .What better way to help clear up this guys mess ,than to have some hikers be the ones to catch him and turn him in to the authorities.I hope he is caught soon before he does more damage .
FF

bigcat2
10-30-2004, 23:47
I was wondering if there had been any recent updates on his local? I live relatively close to the trail and would keep an extra lookout in case he were to come into town for some reason. I wasn't sure if he had made it to NC south of Fontana Dam.

Hawk
10-31-2004, 16:48
I feel badly for the people who've been ripped-off by this fellow. To play the devil's advocate, we don't know what his background is, how miserable his life was (prison, mental hospital, child-abuse?) before doing his A/T hiking...The net value of his swag of loot from his capers doesn't amount to a hill of beans, it needs to be seen as the work of a deeply disturbed individual. No doubt he will get "what's coming to him" but I for one hope he gets mercy mixed with the inevitable judgment. The nerves tend to be very raw regarding misbehavior on the A/T--look what they did to Ward Leonard. A little misbehavior here and there and they came down on him like a ton of bricks...

Lone Wolf
10-31-2004, 16:55
I bet you feel the same way about rapists, murderers and child molesters. Gimme a break. :rolleyes:

orangebug
10-31-2004, 16:56
Not to be a "zero tolerance" sort of person, but I can't agree that we should write off the value of his thefts or make assumptions about his health and background. Nor can I stomach the idea of vigilante justice.

This guy needs to be off of the trail and streets. He needs the benefit of legal representation and fact finding about those aspects of his life that seem so attractive for speculation. If he is deserving of mercy, including consideration of mitigating circumstances, I am certain that he will have the opportunity to receive it. Those who have been victims of his thefts also deserve consideration of their costs and reactions to his alleged misdeeds.

Most all of us believe in justice and mercy, unless we are the ones who get ripped off.

Hawk
10-31-2004, 17:22
I prefaced my comments by saying I was playing the devil's advocate...I have been robbed a number of times and it is very painful to realize there are such low dogs lurking about. It snaps us out of trusting people quickly...To give a few instances, a mechanic drove a distance to remove a blown transmission from my truck to rebuild and re-install. I had a hard time reaching the son of a gun, and he denied angrily stone-walled--no recourse. A baby-sitter from North Dakota liberated my Mazda 626 with a rubber check which bounced like there was no tomorrow. I followed every legal remedy to get justice but Julie Adams had disappeared with my get-away vehicle. I was set up as a coin dealer at a coin show and later discovered over $2000 in gold coins missing. The manager of the show later made the typical excuses about it being "my fault" for not being vigilant enough. Each theft was deeply disturbing, however anger and hatred for the perpetrator can do as much damage to the victim as the original crime. I could describe a couple of other flim-flams and frauds I've gone through but I think this should make clear that, though the thiefs actions are reprehensible, to allow the anger grow inside with maledictions and revenge isn't that productive.

Freeze
10-31-2004, 21:45
Flash Hand,
I never said I was perfect. I just said I can't tolerate thiefs! What part of that did you not understand?

By the way, learn how to spell!

Then I assume your 100% perfect and sin-free? :datz

orangebug
10-31-2004, 21:49
Shouldn't that be "you're"?

Just trying to be perfect about the schpelling.

:rolleyes:

Freeze
10-31-2004, 22:17
Then I assume your 100% perfect and sin-free?

Flash Hand :jump

You gotz it orangebug!

Flash Hand
11-01-2004, 07:33
Flash Hand,
I never said I was perfect. I just said I can't tolerate thiefs! What part of that did you not understand?

By the way, learn how to spell!

Then I assume your 100% perfect and sin-free? :datz


You said you can't tolerate theif? You said NO TOLERANCE. If you know the bible real well. God said of TEN COMMANDMENT. If you break one, (one of the law on the 10 commandment) and then you break all. So, I assume you never break one of the law on Ten Commandment.

My point is.. if people steal... don't hate them for that or look down on them. He had the weakness in his area but I KNOW you have weakness in your area somewhere that we DON'T know. Don't try to make other look bad because they have one problem. No Tolerance sound like "harsh" to us.

And, sorry to burst your bubble, English is my 2nd language... so there is no way you can correct my English, and that include spelling ;)

Flash Hand :jump

orangebug
11-01-2004, 07:33
I didn't catch that you were quoting. :o

Freeze
11-01-2004, 11:39
Hey Flash Hand,
Don't change the issue here. This is not about me. It's about some ******* who stole from others, and who needs to be taken off the trail. If you don't agree with my opinion, then that's fine, but don't attack me for it. I'm entitled to it.
Out of respect for Miss Janet (her post), I’m not going to continue this stupid threading back and forth. I hope someone catches this guy and impales him at a trailhead to warn other thieves they have no place on the trail.

Have a nice day!

bearbait2k4
11-01-2004, 13:09
I don't think anyone is perfect, especially members of this forum.

However, I do think that, when a hiker is threatening the reputation of an entire community and is stealing from other hikers, then we have the right to place judgement on this guy - - being as how he is causing outsiders of the community to place judgement upon all of us.

What can be done about it? Hopefully, through continuing education and notification of his whereabouts, he can be apprehended. The ideas and concerns about his psyche and motivations should be moot at this point. The fact is that he's causing harm, and and should be removed from the trail. Finding out his rhyme and reason should be considered in the aftermath of his apprehension.

JP
11-01-2004, 14:12
Is there a simply way to make it harder/impossible for him to steal a vehicle, like removing some small, lightweight item that you can easily carry with you? Of course, it would need to be easy to remove, install and have the vehicle work after you do this.

YoungbloodYou can install a hidden switch in the wireing. If the switch was not on, the car wouldnt start.A dealership or trusworthy mechanic can do it for you.

TakeABreak
12-24-2004, 03:18
Can anyone tell me if the Trail Thief was ever caught???

neo
12-24-2004, 05:42
is this guy still on the trail stealing,did he ever get caught:sun neo

zenribbits
12-24-2004, 13:59
What is up with someone suggesting that a suicidal person spend 5-6 months in the woods alone to get their heads strait?





Oooo, and what has happened since the last update?

minnesotasmith
12-24-2004, 17:15
"My point is.. if people steal... don't hate them for that or look down on them. He had the weakness in his area"

Thieves can take their weakness with them as they get put behind bars, and none of us should feel bad that that becomes their fate.

neo
12-26-2004, 16:13
thiefs really piss me off:sun neo

weary
01-01-2005, 22:25
REGION 8

George Washington and Jefferson NF’s –On 10/1, LEI employees responded to a call for assistance from Appalachian Trail NP and the Wintergreen, VA PD personnel regarding a southbound hiker wanted for questioning in connection with three burglaries and auto theft. Several interviews were conducted and the search narrowed to a six-mile section of the trail and a trail shelter on the New River Valley RD. The search continued into the night with no results. Indications are the suspect left the trail, but it is anticipated he will to return to the trail and continue south.
The following was published in the Brunswick, Maine, Times Record this week!

By Sarah Holt, Times Record Contributor

On July 25, I walked off the Appalachian Trail into William Brien Memorial Shelter, just south of Bear Mountain, N.Y. There was plenty of room in the shelter. Only one guy had laid out his sleeping bag. Still, it was going to be a clear night, so fellow northbound hikers Buckeye, Big Stick, Erik, Dave and I all decided to tent.

The stranger in the shelter insisted that my buddies and I sleep in the shelter with him.

"There's plenty of room! Look, there's even bunks!" he kept saying.

I assumed he was hiking a section of the Appalachian Trail; he wore jeans and a cotton T-shirt, not the lightweight hiking clothing of a thru-hiker. But I'd made up my mind, and the stars were coming out. I went about setting up my Tarptent. Big Stick, Buckeye and I hung our food bags in the shelter, above the reach of rodents. We didn't socialize much because the section-hiker was bedding down for the night.

The next morning, I broke down my tent, packed my pack and went to retrieve my food bag. It was gone. So was the section-hiker.

At first I was confused. Hikers can almost always trust other hikers. You're all sharing an adventure and commiserating together. No distance-hiker steals another's gear.

Also, there's little chance of switching gear. A distance-hiker knows every item on his or her back. It's not like the guy could have fumbled around in the early morning dark and taken the wrong bag by accident.

He didn't leave a bag, so I knew it was no mistake.

The thief was heading south. He'd grabbed my bag, left my friends' bags alone and split. I concluded he must have been pretty hungry to steal what I had, some leftover pitas and a knawed-on hunk of cheese. Maybe he was even some kind of "homeless" dude temporarily living on the trail.

Two days' worth of food was no big loss for me, especially since I was resupplying at Bear Mountain, but I always hung up anything with a scent: cook pot, alcohol stove, titanium spork, toothbrush, toothpaste, vitamins, Leatherman knife, Camp Suds, Buzz Off. Everything had disappeared with the food.

What a bummer! Like most of my friends I was hiking on a budget, and now I'd have to replace all that stuff.

Plus, Bear Mountain was a park headquarters, not a town. It would be a while - probably until Kent, Conn., - before I could get to an outfitter.

Meanwhile, others jumped to help. Big Stick let me eat his oatmeal, out of his pot, with his utensil. He also generously handed over half his multi-vitamins, a Pop tart, and three Snickers bars - enough to get me to Bear Mountain that day.

In Bear Mountain, Erik called his dad in Massachusetts to priority-mail an extra alcohol stove to Kent for me. The Bear Mountain P.O. lady took pity on me and let me call home to ask my dad to send me another little knife. Then she made me popcorn and poured me a glass of orange juice.

I thought to myself, "The loss is bad ... but look at all the good coming out of it."

Fast-forward to Aug. 21, the day I followed the Appalachian Trail into Hanover, N.H. I had long since replaced all necessities. I'd also e-mailed friends, describing the petty theft and the outpouring of generosity in its wake. It was all in the past, anyway. I was moving on!

In Hanover, I checked e-mail at the Dartmouth Outing Club. Mary Parry, a trail angel from Duncannon, Pa., whom I'd added to my mailing list, had sent me a message.

"Go to the post office in Hanover," it read. "It's very important."

Good timing! How did Mary know when I would reach Hanover?

I walked to the post office. Two things awaited me there. The first was a huge - and I do mean huge - cardboard box. It contained about 30 pounds of hiker food: pop tarts, fruit roll-ups, mac-and-cheese dinners, instant coffee, cocoa, Ramen noodles, Lipton dinners.

The second thing was a large envelope. It contained my old cook pot, stove, and Leatherman. And a letter.

I opened the letter. It was from the hiker who stole my food bag.

"I won't try to justify, explain or rationalize what I did," it read. "I just want to apologize to you for what I now know was wrong of me ..."

The sender had made it all the way down to Duncannon, Pa., carrying my stuff.

Somewhere along the line, he did a spiritual 180. He confessed what he'd done to another southbound hiker. That hiker got ahead and happened to mention it to Mary in Duncannon. When the regretful thief reached her town, Mary offered to help him redeem himself.

From my e-mails, she knew the stolen food bag was mine. (The thief had no idea whose bag he had stolen; we'd barely exchanged words at William Brien Shelter.)

The two worked out a plan. The hiker scrubbed Mary's apartment clean to earn the food to send me. Mary guessed when I would arrive in Hanover from the course of my occasional e-mails. They bought food and packaged it up alongside the relinquished items, and mailed it to Hanover. Mary just happened to have emailed me the day before I arrived there.

There was so much food I was able to give plenty to Big Stick, who had shared his food with me when I needed it. There was more left over, too, for other hikers around me: Sunshine, Gaia, SkiBum. This was awesome!

Some say there are no coincidences.

I don't know.

Either way, it makes a great story, so I forgave the guy.

His new trail name is "saved."

Miss Janet
01-01-2005, 23:18
The last news I had about this situation was that the last car stolen was recovered away from the trail. Comments he had made to other hikers led the authorities to believe he may have been heading to Florida... Maybe Freeze will find him!

oldfivetango
01-06-2005, 08:57
Hey Flash Hand,
Don't change the issue here. This is not about me. It's about some ******* who stole from others, and who needs to be taken off the trail. If you don't agree with my opinion, then that's fine, but don't attack me for it. I'm entitled to it.
Out of respect for Miss Janet (her post), I’m not going to continue this stupid threading back and forth. I hope someone catches this guy and impales him at a trailhead to warn other thieves they have no place on the trail.

Have a nice day! I find it so refreshing to know that I will not be the only person on the
AT that has a decidedly conservative perspective.SAVED should be
in prison where he belongs - regardless of his impoverished,neglected,
abused,"weakness prone",insane,or just plain sorry character so that the
rest of the AT community will not be tarnished by his behavior and reputation.I will give you odds that he is probably an escaped fugitive in
the first place with Eric Rudolph as his role model.

Oldfivetango:-?

Langelier7
01-25-2005, 16:52
I can tell you that, YES the thief that you all are referring to was caught. I know this because he was living next door to my husband, children and I for about 3 months. He showed up here in rural Georgia around the end of October, came home with my husband for a hot shower and meal and just never left. He took a job, joined the church, and spent many many hours alone doing what he called "soul searching". We never had any idea as to what kinds of things David did on his trip south. We were suprised, naturally, when the United States Marshall's picked him up on Friday evening. We immediately went to the internet and did a Google search for his name and have mercy at the amount of things we found! I do not, repeat DO NOT, condone anything that he did but I do know that I am not the judge and/or jury of his life; God is. I will not throw stones at his wrongs because I have also committed some wrongs in my life, not to the same magnitude but they were wrongs. I just wanted to let all the angry people know that the "thief" they refer to has been caught. I only ask that each of you use the same amount of energy that it took to be angry at him and turn that energy into prayer for him! In all the time we knew him, we never saw this side of him so I refuse to give up on him, God wouldn't.

SGT Rock
01-25-2005, 17:20
It would probably be easier for folks to forgive him if at the point he did find Jesus and get saved that he did something to make it right instead of hiding out.

fairydust1225
01-25-2005, 17:25
I never had a run in with SAVED or David as he was known here in Georgia. I do know that he touched a lot of lives while he was here. Noone knows for sure what he was doing stealing all of the stuff he did but I know that while he was here he worked his way in this world. I work with a lady which David lived and rented the house right next door. Hearing her talk he was always there to lend a helping hand and was great to their kids. He got out and played with them instead of the adults sometimes. Noone knows his reason for coming to this very small town in Central Georgia but someone or something led him here. Maybe he was looking for a new start and he took all means necessary to get as far away from his past as he could. For what ever the reason he changed on his trip down the AT. He developed from a sad lonely depressed suicidal boy into a confident man that took his responsibilities into his own hands and has turned his life back in time to face the demons chasing him and confront the new ones he caused. The U.S. Marshall's DID apprehend him but we believe it was of his own doing that they did so. I think he made that phone call to let them know where he was so he could finally put all of his past behind him and start new again one day. In his final days in Crawford County he tried all ways to be found and was unsuccessful in being found. We believe he called and asked to be extradicted back so he can ask for forgiveness for those that he sinned against and finally begin the life and peace he finally found. This is a decision he has to live with and he chose to go back and face those demons even though it means he could spend 25 years or more in prison. How many of you would do that? Would you take the risk of turning in your ownself so that when you are finally free again go back to those who had shown you love, acceptance and helped you when you needed it the most even if the way they met you was seeing you sitting outside a church and asking a stranger into their home for supper. Then giving him a place to live, food to eat and work to do so he would not feel like he was taking advantage of these people. He found his peace and truly wanted to be able to live the life he had come to so love with a freedom in him that it took him facing all his wrong doings to make his life this life he had found in Georgia. Some may not agree with me, I am not saying I agree with all the decisions he made on his trip to Georgia. But in Georgia he found the peace he sought when he started out looking for a place to kill himself in along the AT. It took the wide open fields and pastures of Georgia but he found his peace and has now returned to face his demons so he can truly live free.

Langelier7
01-25-2005, 17:28
I don't consider that he has been "hiding out". If you were hiding out, as you say. If I were hiding out I sure wouldn't run to a state agency to re-new my drivers license. Don't think that would've been smart if he was hiding out.

fairydust1225
01-25-2005, 17:29
He did not hide out. He found peace and then turned to face his demons when he found the strength to deal with them. That takes guts. Most people would keep hiding but he chose to go back and face the consequences of all his wrong doings and try to make things right again.

SGT Rock
01-25-2005, 17:35
Hidding out = sitting in a house not going to the cops.

Turning oneself in is as easy as walking into a police station.

Rocks 'n Roots
01-25-2005, 17:48
Every few years the AT's notoriety attracts persons with criminal intentions. The bad part is AT hikers being seen as a public danger. The good part in this case is that no one was hurt. I hope "Saved" works it out and isn't punished too severely...

fairydust1225
01-25-2005, 17:59
not hiding out - going to the State troopers Public Safety Center and getting his driving license renewed. Applying for tons of jobs with his real name including a job as a correctional officer at a prison.


calling U.S. Marshalls on their own - letting them know where he was and what he needed to do to get this behind him.

I have seen the positive effects he has made on these people including their many children and hope that things work out for the best. Just because you are a "hiker" doesn't classify as bad. You can be looked at that way by walking through the park excercising where kids play; sitting on the beach getting sun but staring too much at a hot girl; there are tons of labels and everyone makes mistakes. Everyone in this world makes decisions they regret and some never regret them. While others live with misery for the rest of their lives and run forever. We all have quirks people think are weird but we all need to learn never to judge too quickly and to learn to forgive when forgiveness is asked.

Blessed Be Everyone!

SGT Rock
01-25-2005, 18:03
Applying for tons of jobs with his real name including a job as a correctional officer at a prison.

And you don't see that as VERY IRONIC. Or maybe even hypocritical?

fairydust1225
01-25-2005, 18:31
I suppose it is in a way. But I have worked in the Criminal Justice system for 9 1/2 years and I have seen those that were truly sorry and took the time for some soul searching and I have seen those that were forced like dogs into cages. It is usually the ones that seek forgiveness are much more likely to really change. I was not involved in this tragic event that has the hikers of the AT being looked at with scorn but I have been in other situations. I didn't really even know SAVED only worked with one of the people who took him in. I am not in any way condoning his behavior. It was wrong and he should have searched for another way to make it through his time of trials but I do believe that everyone should be treated equally AND fairly until they have either admitted their guilt or been found guilty by 12 jurors. I also believe that everyone deserves a second chance. I know I have had second, third, fourth and fifth chances in my lifetime. Some people learn it the first time and some people have to get back up from being down and learn to crawl all over again. From what my co-worker said he seemed very upset on Thursday night after he made the phone call and truly sorry for his actions. Noone ever knows for sure but sometimes you have to show them support and that if you really believe then you can overcome anything including making up for mistakes and righting wrongs you have done.

orangebug
01-25-2005, 18:45
One of the great hallmarks of a sociopath is their apparent sincerity and ability to be well liked and well trusted.

I would not be particularly proud of having my children attended by this man - or any other stranger who simply appeared on a doorstep seeking a shower. I'd be very doubtful that he telephoned the US Marshall's office to arrange a pick up. The easiest way to deal with legal demons is to walk into the local police station, announce your identity and surrender for trial.

One of the worst consequences of dealing with a sociopath is dealing with the number of lies and trust violations. This can lead very trusting people to become very cynical and angry. One of the great Reaganisms was "Trust, but confirm." I am sorry that this religious rural Georgia community failed to protect their children or themselves.

Langelier7
01-25-2005, 19:13
heres the whole of it david did wrong david will pay for his wrong and the only person he has to please is god.remember the ten commandments! love thy neighbor,well we are all neighbors from georgia to pa.

oldfivetango
01-25-2005, 19:43
For once in my life I am almost speechless-emphasis on almost.For starters let me say I'm glad the guy is "caught" however it happened.Second,if the guy is going to get 25 years for stealing a girls packback there is something seriously wrong with the system- I would be willing to bet you that the dude has a rap sheet "as long as your leg".Third- what kind of idiot brings a homeless person with weird tattoos all over them into their home to spend time around their family for what sounds like quite some length of time i might add.Fourth and last- I am certain Jesus will forgive this person but for the life of me i dont see how any of us guys looking at "hot" girls at the beach is in any way shape or form in the same league with what this dude has done.Maybe I didn't get the memo but I thought that's what us guys go to the beach for? Sheesh-you people sometimes really crack me up.I'm glad that there is one less troubled soul causing trouble on the trail.In all honesty I do hope the guy will get the help that he needs with no more than just punishment and have a sincere conversion that will serve him well for the rest of his life.
Oldfivetango

Langelier7
01-25-2005, 19:48
My children were and still are protected. David did NO wrong to us or our children. We did not see the same side of David that all of these angry people see. We only did what any Christian family would have done. I do not feel that my children or my husband or I were in any danger. David was always kind and willing to lend a helping hand to us, just as we did for him, not expecting anything in return. We did not simply bring him in off our doorstep and leave our children with him. He has been our neighbor for over 4 months and has NEVER been alone with our children, not because we didn't trust him to be but because these are my children, my little blessing from God, and my responsibility. Do not assume that my children were in any danger without knowing all the details. That's the problem with this world now..Everyone jumps on the bandwagon to bereate someone but noone ever wants to lend a helping hand as we did. I have no problem with you being angry at him for what he did but one question for you..Did he do anything to you personally or is everything you know about him hearsay?. We know him personally so before you decide that we were unsafe and "taken" by him you should stop and think that we actually know him and you only know "of" him.

NICKTHEGREEK
01-25-2005, 20:02
My children were and still are protected. David did NO wrong to us or our children. We did not see the same side of David that all of these angry people see. We only did what any Christian family would have done. I do not feel that my children or my husband or I were in any danger. David was always kind and willing to lend a helping hand to us, just as we did for him, not expecting anything in return. We did not simply bring him in off our doorstep and leave our children with him. He has been our neighbor for over 4 months and has NEVER been alone with our children, not because we didn't trust him to be but because these are my children, my little blessing from God, and my responsibility. Do not assume that my children were in any danger without knowing all the details. That's the problem with this world now..Everyone jumps on the bandwagon to bereate someone but noone ever wants to lend a helping hand as we did. I have no problem with you being angry at him for what he did but one question for you..Did he do anything to you personally or is everything you know about him hearsay?. We know him personally so before you decide that we were unsafe and "taken" by him you should stop and think that we actually know him and you only know "of" him.I honestly know that I would have done the same for this person and to a degree it saddens me. To take a stranger into your home as you did is a testimony to your faith, and I admire you for doing so.

SGT Rock
01-25-2005, 20:10
Most kids that got molested were attacked by a family member or a friend of the family, and often the parents never know. Christian charity does not equal gullibility. Enough on that, you remind me of a friend that always wonders how she keeps ending up in bad situations when everyone else can see it coming.

It is good to have Christian charity, but you never came on to this site before today, don't really know what we were all about, then came on and chastised us for having an opinion about a criminal and beat us up for saying what we do. Where is the Christian charity or understanding to us? Proper Netiquette is to usually hang back for a while and read stuff for a while before telling us how to think.

Besides, compared to most of the Christians I have met, even the most atheist backpacker is often more charitable to another backpacker than the Christian neighbor is to his neighbor. Most of the backpackers here would give you the extra clothes off their backs on the trail or split the food in their food bags they have if you were in trouble on the trail. They would take someone a couple of states in their cars even if they only recently met on the trail and some have even given hikers gear when they needed it. But, on the other hand, they usually hate that people feel entitled to steal the same things we might give. There are lots of people here that have to deal with the suspicion every hike that people like this create and leave behind.

Besides, he didn't have to do something to me personally. Lots of criminals never did, but I can still recognize them for what they did and beware. Let him turn his life around, glad he is trying.

Anyway, if you are this concerned with him, then why are you here preaching to a small group of hikers that will in most likelihood never have any interaction with him again? Why not spend some time visiting him in jail or talking to his friends face to face and ensuring he will still feel welcome when he comes home? I assume that you do still want him to come back, and given his other documented time of repentance (see earlier posts in this thread) we would be glad he did it there instead of doing his thing again on the trail.

orangebug
01-25-2005, 20:57
Ditto what Rock sez regarding family members and trusted friends of the family. In today's news, we have a Cobb County man arrested for molesting boys in an "organized group" of 9-10 year old boys. We also have a Gwinnett minister arrested for accusations involving a 3 year old grandson.

These things happen, and are not unique due to religion or other organizations. Coaches, day care workers, teachers and others act shamefully with those entrusted in their care. It should be no more surprising than the fact that bank robbers go to banks - where the money is.

It is usually considered a good idea to identify those who enjoy your charity for more than a few hours. I offer hitches to others, I open my home to visitors - foreign and domestic, I provide meals and other charity - although never by providing cash directly (no panhandling).

I hope the worst outcome for "Saved's" Macon community is the shock of seeing the US Marshall carry him away.

Langelier7
01-25-2005, 22:16
i grew up in cobb county and thats why i dont live there anymore.Too many people for the authorities to control.Im sure among all the craziness there are good people,but they are few and far between compared to rural georgia.And Ill repeaet once more, David Lescoe never once harmed me or my family,nor did he give any signs of ever harming them.Yes, I now know he is a car thief,and now he will pay for his wrong doing.And a year from now when all of you have forgotten him,he will still be my brother in christ!

Happy
01-25-2005, 22:40
I think that ANY of us that have chosen backpacking as our sport or given hobby for any long term period, will attest that we have met some great and long term friends that have chosen the same sport!

There has always been a keen bonding that results from encounters on the trail or on sites such as this one! It is extremely rare each year, if you encounter any character that violates that trust or bonding...unlike baseball, football, basketball or hockey or such !

To forget or forgive this trust is unacceptable :-? !!!

Lugnut
01-26-2005, 01:26
Is the synonym for Christian now "naive"? Sure sounds like it. :-?

fairydust1225
01-26-2005, 01:45
I am sorry to have offended anyone here if I did. I was just stating some facts of who SAVED/DAVID became. I certainly understand that it only takes one bad apple in the bunch to make all the others seem the same way and it takes a lot to regain that trust again. I am sure that he has caused and is still causing you to get strange, leary, and even grimmincing looks.


Like I said, I never met him but Langelier7, whith whom I work has spent time with him with her family as well qas the members of their church. They gave him a chance and no they did not know who he was or what he had done in the past they only took to him as the person that came to their church wanting and needing help. We found this web site by doing a search by his name in google and they were shocked when so many articles at so many different sites had on him. After reading the things most had to say Langelier7 and myself posted what was seen in this person that all were so eager to be caught. I agree that he needs to pay for the actions he did and the hard feelings of untrust he has given the AT hikers. I am sorry if I offended anyone but I was just voicing what I have observed because some people seemed to have met and liked him and wanted to succeed in being saved from himself.

Happy
01-26-2005, 02:41
I commend both of you for your sincerity, actions and concerns, but he HAS to be punished for his actions and the problems he has caused for the hiking community!

You have MANY choices in life, and he has not choice the most wise ones!

Best Of Luck to him in his ordeal, and may he speak out in the future to the PUBLIC to the problems, he has afficted to the HIKING COMMUNITY!

Lone Wolf
01-26-2005, 03:46
Prisons are full of "born again Christians". He's probably innocent too.

Mountain Dew
01-27-2005, 01:44
Didn't he steal more than one car ? I believe so. And didn't he take one of them over state lines ? oops. Felony right there. Didn't he break into a home and steal hiking gear from somebody ? I also talked to one sobo female that said he followed her for several days and she got so creeped out that she was forced to do huge miles to escape him. Numerous sobo's last year said he gave them the creeps.

He seems like a Dr. Christian ... Mr. Hide-out character. The best part of this entire thread is when somebody said that he wasn't trying to avoid the authurities and then said that he went to get a driverse license. I notice no mention of him telling them he was wanted. Classic logic there. " he even went to apply for work as a prison guard" ... ? I know i wasn't the only person that got a laugh out of that. How ironic is that ! I think they misunderstood his intentions. He was applying to be an inmate i believe.

Nonetheless I hope this guy turns his life around and seeks medical help. He's a true menace to society with his ability to go from bad to good and back to bad so fast.

TJ aka Teej
01-27-2005, 09:04
A 33-year-old Rhode Island man who reportedly used the Trail name “Saved” last year has been arrested in rural Georgia on fugitive warrants from Virginia as a suspect in a series of residential break-ins and car thefts off the A.T. in Wintergreen, National Park Service (NPS) rangers reported today. Procedures were being instituted to extradite David Lescoe from Middle, Ga., to Wintergreen. Federal law-enforcement agents, with many hikers and Trail-town members calling in leads, had been looking for him on and near the Trail since last September after two break-ins (including one at the home of an ATC member) were reported and a stolen automobile was recovered at the A.T. parking area along the James River. “Although serious crime is a rare occurrence on the Trail, it's nice to know that, when a situation like this develops, the Trail community will join forces with the law-enforcement community to resolve it,” NPS A.T. Ranger Todd Remaley said, asking that anyone with information on any thefts on the Trail between June and October and between New York and Georgia call him at (717) 258-5771.
January 26, 2005

(from the ATC website)

TJ aka Teej
01-27-2005, 09:16
One of the great hallmarks of a sociopath is their apparent sincerity and ability to be well liked and well trusted.
"Saved" chose his trail name with intent. He's not the first criminal to pose as a Christian to gain the trust of his victims.

slowpoke
04-26-2005, 23:06
back in sept or maybe oct i met him at the thunder hill shelter wanted me to hike sobo with him. glad i did'nt.i gave a ride to another hiker and droped him off at thunder hill shelter went by the trail name lone wolf hope he is ok

Teatime
04-27-2005, 13:39
If this guy had stolen my gear or food, I would be angry too. As a A.T. hiker it does concern me that he was out there doing the things he did. However, didn't St. Paul say something about not doing the things I want to do, but doing the things I don't want to do? This is sin living in me, for the things I want to do, I do not do, no, the things I don't want to do, these I keep on doing. We can call ourselves "Saved", "Born Again", "Spirit Filled" or whatever but that old sinful nature is still there weighing us down. The theological term is "concupiscience". Maybe David had the intention and desire to do good, but his old nature kept coming back up. He knew he was doing wrong when he did it but somehow just couldn't help himself. Yes, he needs help and should pay for his crime. However, as a Catholic Christian, I have to admire those individuals who helped him and showed him kindness and mercy. How many times should I forgive my brother, asks Peter, seven times? Not seven times, replies Jesus, but seventy times seven. The late Pope John Paul II The Great even visited his assailant in jail and forgave him. At least David didn't actually kill or injure someone. I'm not defending what he did nor do I even pretend to understand it. I'm just saying lets forgive the guy, let him pay his debt to society, and get on with life. Are we more concerned about the general hiker "image" than we are about the life of one fellow human being? I say if this man can be plucked from the abyss and live a good and changed life, it is worth more than the A.T. itself.

minnesotasmith
04-27-2005, 14:13
Please drop the "we" and use "I" instead. People speak only for themselves, and perhaps their families, in moral matters. People not of your precise denomination are not subject to its teachings and dictates.

I'd turn this b*stard thief into the cops with a song in my heart, help press charges to the maximum extent I could, and let his diety (whichever one he's into this week) handle any "forgiveness" he gets.

Teatime
04-28-2005, 09:39
Alas, dear brother, you suffer from a sure dose of "relativism". I have my "truth", you have your "truth", someone else has their "truth" and they are all of equal value. What foolish nonsense! Here is a link to a document authored by then Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI) called in latin "Dominus Iesus" http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFUNICI.HTM. This says it better than I ever could.
Anyway, all I am saying is that although the guy should pay his debt to society, that doesn't mean we have to be so hateful and vengeful towards him. How can we look at one small sliver of a man's life and judge him by it. Who knows why he did these criminal acts? What triggered it? Let he among you who is without sin, cast the first stone? Wow, there are a lot of Saints on this Forum! I still say that those who were merciful to him and tried to help him get his life turned around have shown themselves to be true followers of Christ.
A father told his 2 sons to go out and tend to the fields. The first son said "no, I won't go" but later changed his mind and went. The second son said, "I will go", but didn't. Which one did the father's will?

Rain Man
04-28-2005, 09:45
Alas, dear brother, you suffer from a sure dose of "relativism". ...
A father told his 2 sons to go out and tend to the fields. The first son said "no, I won't go" but later changed his mind and went. The second son said, "I will go", but didn't. Which one did the father's will?

Ahhhhhh ... a sure example of "temporal relativisim" if I ever saw one. The answer to the question depends on which instant of time you judge from.
:dance

Rain:sunMan

.

SGT Rock
04-28-2005, 11:03
I thought this was a dead issue thread since he got caught.

Teatime
04-28-2005, 11:42
An obvious sign I'm spending too much time on this forum.:rolleyes: I guess I was just trying to express something I feel strongly about. Maybe I could have done it better.
I thought this was a dead issue thread since he got caught.

gr8fulyankee
04-28-2005, 11:43
Hey Teatime , if all you are saying is
" the guy should pay his debt to society,"
Then say and leave the friggen religion part out of it. Some of use really don't care to hear it.

Nean
04-28-2005, 12:02
1) Threads evolve 2) people have a right to their opinion 3) Play nice

One Leg
04-28-2005, 12:03
I'm late in reading this particular thread, but I'll add my unsolicited 2 cents' worth....

First off, the old addage Trust God, but lock your doors comes to mind.

A young farm boy was having trouble behaving, as he should. His father gave him the project of putting a nail in the barn door every time he did something bad. He gave him a bag of nails and a hammer. For several weeks, the path from the house to the barn stayed well worn, as the boy obediently pounded a nail in the barn door each time he disobeyed. Soon he came to his father and said, "Dad, I am all out of nails! Now what do I do?" His father then told him to pull out one of the nails each time he obeyed. Some time later, he again came to his father and said, "Dad, I have pulled all the nails, but…" "But what?" his dad asked. "Dad, the nails are gone, but there are holes all over the door, and it is ugly!"

The point taken from the above illusration is that we can turn our lives around, but we still bear the scars from past sins. "Saved" may have experienced a true conversion, but he still bears the scars from his past sins, just as we bear the scars from our own respective past sins.

You wouldn't take someone who's repented of child molesting and place them in charge of a daycare center just because they found God. Nor should you trust someone accused of being a thief with your belongings.

-Scott

Teatime
04-28-2005, 12:50
My religion is part and parcel of who and what I am. I interpret everything through the eyes of my Christian faith. If you disagree with me and don't like the "religion" part, that's your right. Maybe some others ARE interested in that perspective. You and other atheists/agnosticis (not meant to be offensive, just an observation from your post) are not the only ones who use this forum. I know this forum isn't a religious forum but those of us who are "religious" often can't help but express ourselves in light of that. I will continue to do so, if Sgt. Rock will continue to tolerate me. When I do inject my faith, I will try to do so in a respectful and charitable manner.:D
Hey Teatime , if all you are saying is
" the guy should pay his debt to society,"
Then say and leave the friggen religion part out of it. Some of use really don't care to hear it.

Stoker53
04-28-2005, 13:29
My religion is part and parcel of who and what I am. I interpret everything through the eyes of my Christian faith. If you disagree with me and don't like the "religion" part, that's your right. Maybe some others ARE interested in that perspective. You and other atheists/agnosticis (not meant to be offensive, just an observation from your post) are not the only ones who use this forum. I know this forum isn't a religious forum but those of us who are "religious" often can't help but express ourselves in light of that. I will continue to do so, if Sgt. Rock will continue to tolerate me. When I do inject my faith, I will try to do so in a respectful and charitable manner.:D
I have seen exchanges like this countless times. The conflict between the traditional religious folk and those that are not .......atheists/agnostic. The in your face intolerance of the latter group has always seemed ironic to me. Wonder how this group ( A/A ) would react to intolerance based on skin color, national origin, gender or sexual preference? In today's culture you can denegrate, ridicule someone's religious beliefs with impunity. Intolerance of other groups is met with howls and anger. Sad.....very sad.

SGT Rock
04-28-2005, 13:41
Arghhh. Lets not get started on a religious thread please. They never accomplish anything.

gr8fulyankee
04-28-2005, 13:56
I really don't give a hoot *** god you pray or don't pray to. Just like I don't care what your race or sexual preference is. I just don't appreciate it when some religious zealot starts having diarrea of the mouth. Everyone has the right to have an opinion and Everyone has a right to believe in what ever they want, and with that right has responsiblities. I would never tell someone that they were wrong because they didn't believe in what I believe in, and I would never bash someones religion. Just like I would not post stuff that (knowingly) offended other people in a forum. What I am saying is something that most people do everyday ( I know, just say it instead of writing a damn book already!) Just think about what you are about to say.

Stoker53
04-28-2005, 13:57
Good point Sgt.

RockyTrail
04-28-2005, 14:27
I don't think Teatime said anything offensive.
Thanks Teatime, I enjoyed reading your opinion. :sun

Ford Prefect
04-28-2005, 14:52
... In today's culture you can denegrate, ridicule someone's religious beliefs with impunity. Intolerance of other groups is met with howls and anger. Sad.....very sad.
Face it. It's hip to bash religion. :datz

More accurately, it's hip to bash something that is NOT morally relativistic, particularly if you subscribe to a morally relativistic worldview.

'Nuf said. Now I'm going back to lurking on threads that are enjoyable reading ...

- FP

The Old Fhart
04-28-2005, 15:11
SGT Rock-"Arghhh. Lets not get started on a religious thread please. They never accomplish anything."You're half right. We should NOT get started on a religious thread-true. If this happens, the thread should be closed-period.

What these threads (my TRUE religion vs "the others") accomplish is showing how bigoted and unChristian the religious zelots are. The sad part is they are so blinded by their distorted view of religion that they don't realize how pathetic they are.

gr8fulyankee
04-28-2005, 15:14
You're half right. We should NOT get started on a religious thread-true. If this happens, the thread should be closed-period.

What these threads (my TRUE religion vs "the others") accomplish is showing how bigoted and unChristian the religious zelots are. The sad part is they are so blinded by their distorted view of religion that they don't realize how pathetic they are.
Now Aint that the Gospel Truth!

Nean
04-28-2005, 15:30
Wow, what did this guy say to start this bashing. I thought he just stated his opinion based on his beliefs. If there is some reason to insult this person I'd like to hear it. If this thread is out of line, end it

Stoker53
04-28-2005, 15:53
I really don't give a hoot *** god you pray or don't pray to. Just like I don't care what your race or sexual preference is. I just don't appreciate it when some religious zealot starts having diarrea of the mouth. Everyone has the right to have an opinion and Everyone has a right to believe in what ever they want, and with that right has responsiblities. I would never tell someone that they were wrong because they didn't believe in what I believe in, and I would never bash someones religion. Just like I would not post stuff that (knowingly) offended other people in a forum. What I am saying is something that most people do everyday ( I know, just say it instead of writing a damn book already!) Just think about what you are about to say.
Originally Posted by august70
Hey Teatime , if all you are saying is
" the guy should pay his debt to society,"
Then say and leave the friggen religion part out of it. Some of use really don't care to hear it.


Aug70...To quote you.... "Just like I would not post stuff that (knowingly) offended other people in a forum." Based on your earlier post to Teatime I'll call BS on your self proclaimed non offensive posting habits. Your response to Teatime, in my opinion, was rude at best and dripping with hostility. Even your Sig line is a jab at folks who believe in creation. So please don't try to portray yourself, to me, as tolerant. That dog won't hunt.

The Old Fhart
04-28-2005, 16:05
Nean-“ Wow, what did this guy say to start this bashing. I thought he just stated his opinion based on his beliefs. If there is some reason to insult this person I'd like to hear it.”Are you talking about Teatime's comments against August70? Just look at what Teatime said of him:
I have my "truth", you have your "truth", someone else has their "truth" and they are all of equal value. What foolish nonsense!
You and other atheists/agnostics…So is calling his August70’s point of view nonsense and calling him an atheists/agnostics being polite and Christian-I think not.

When Teatime says: “Let he among you who is without sin, cast the first stone” then proceeds to try to bury August70 under a pile of verbal boulders, I consider that hypocritical. When Teatime says: “When I do inject my faith, I will try to do so in a respectful and charitable manner” then proceeds to insult August70, it isn’t “in a respectful and charitable manner.”

When you start trying to use the Bible as a weapon to beat others, don't be surprised if they fight back. :D