Mile Ratio for Section hiking [Archive]

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sasquatch2014

04-08-2010, 22:21

As I once again found myself in the car driving down now all too familiar routes heading out for another section hike I began to think about all the miles that I have put on the car for the sake of trying to section out this trail. I am new to this game and so I am sure that my miles are low compared to some of you out there. I also happen to live close to the trail so my distance is again shortened.

As my hiking partner and I talked about the cost that is incurred by the section hiker we talked about the miles that are also put in and the time away from family. In some cases a thru hiker in top shape can cover almost twice as many miles as a section hiker so it takes us twice as long so twice the amount of nights away from family and work.

As i have already said I am fairly new compared to some so it was easy to sit down and think back to my trips and input them into mapquest to get the miles driven. I then took that and used it against the hiked. For every mile that I hike I have driven 3.9 miles so I am at a 25.9% level of hiked to driven.

What are you at for your section hike what is your cost or data?

Tin Man

04-08-2010, 22:27

hmmm.... something to ponder with my partners - mr. brother, mr. scotch, mr. stealth and his campfire, on my section hike in two weeks.... or maybe not :-?

jesse

04-09-2010, 00:48

Its important to know how much you spend on recreation, so you can budget for such things, but cost per mile hiked is an irrelevant number to me. Never thought about it till this thread. Now I still don't care how many miles I walk or how much they cost.

Egads

04-09-2010, 06:37

I have to drive 4+ hours to cover new ground on the AT. Usually do 30-40 miles in a two day weekend, so my ratio would be ~7-9 mi driven / mi hiked

Really need 3 day weekends to make it worthwhile, but the wife covets my attendance to those.

berkshirebirder

04-09-2010, 07:06

For every mile that I hike I have driven 3.9 miles --Sasquatch

I'll be hiking short sections and live a couple of hours from the nearest point on the A.T., so this ratio is very interesting. Cost of commuting aside, it sounds as if you could cover a lot of Trail in the time you spend driving back and forth.

Are you hoping to hike the whole Trail? Can you can barter a few of those weekends for five days or a whole week away at one time in order to cover more ground?

Hikes in Rain

04-09-2010, 08:09

I now have to drive 9+ hours to reach new sections of the Trail. It's a significant cost that I have to factor in.

Kerosene

04-09-2010, 08:50

1azarus

04-09-2010, 09:39

I make every effort not to calculate the cost of my section hikes, thereby keeping my wife from knowing that number! It's pretty high though, with a combination of driving, flights, hotels, hostels, shuttles, even taxicabs to hike week-long sections as well as fill in a handful of very short gaps that cropped up between my first hikes before I decided to section hike the entire AT.

In the end, I figure that it's still a lot cheaper than your typical resort vacation. I always let me wife and daughter know that they're free to join me, and maybe one day they will for a short period.

wow. it gets worse when you need to fly! I sure agree with your approach to not know the facts of the matter. and you're right, adding the costs of shuttles makes that miles cost ratio number even bigger. i live in CT about an hour from the AT. these days the shortest drive i've got to cover new ground is 5 hours -- with maybe one more 12 hour trip. up until now my strategy has been to take week long trips for far away sections of trail, and 3 day trips for close sections. with the southernmost section done for me now, as well as the sections that are closest to my house, i've just switched over to 4 day trips for everything -- after delicate negotiations with my wife! mostly that means two crazy driving days with some miles hiked, and two dedicated hiking days. who ever said is was easy being a section hiker. i do look forward to finishing the whole thing so i can just go hike in VT NH and ME -- my "back yard." It has worked really well to plan my hike with others, then take one car and hike in opposite directions to avoid a shuttle. also get to split gas costs. this has also let us hike different distances and speeds... and apparently i don't hike well with others! oh...and for me, it is a lot cheaper than the therapy i would require.

garlic08

04-09-2010, 10:14

For me, it's not only the time, it's the resources. It sort of bugged me on my thru when I met a couple who drove cross country, bought another car in GA, and were using two cars in shuttles to "day hike" the AT. This was in '08, too, when gas hit $4/gal. So they were driving two cars more than twice the length of the AT. I don't even like doing car shuttles for short day hikes.

The few section hikes I've done (CDT in three section), I've tried to plan with minimum transportation needs (yogied rides from vacationing friends to Glacier and Chama, NM), and as much public transport as possible. In Arizona, I've taken busses to and from Tucson and Flagstaff to access sections of the AZT, and shared rides with friends who were going to trailheads anyway. This takes more planning and flexibility, but to me it's worth it. It's more fun, too.

I've always been daunted thinking about the logistics of section hiking a long trail over 20 or more years. My friend just finished the PCT after 34 years! Thru hiking is so much easier that way.

Alligator

04-09-2010, 10:29

The number of miles driven vs. hiking goes up as you go farther and farther away from home base. Your miles per day hiking will top out--likely under 20--yet you will need to drive farther and farther to get to the trail.

How close a person is to the closet point on the trail will affect the total transportation miles greatly. If you are say 100 miles from the closet point, you will always have to do that one hundred miles every trip.

If you shuttle with a hiking buddy, each drives the road distance between endpoints once. If you use your car plus some other shuttle, your body covers those miles. If you are using your car to get to the trail then, you always cover that road distance between hiking points once. That distance is usually at least the trail miles (roughly). One way that doesn't happen is to take mass transit to both the start and finish, then there is no need to go back to your car.

The farther out from the trail you go, there may come a point where you can go to one car and a shuttle with a buddy rather than a car drop. Also, at some point mass transit is usually cheaper as well for getting to the trail (solo), and also a cheap option for shuttling where available.

Increasing your hiking days is a good way to decrease transport miles. Two four day trips are two sets of transportation miles (costs) vs. one transportation cost for an eight day trip.

I've used personal vehicles, shuttles, buses, trains, hitches, and bicycles. I consider the transportation miles each trip but only to figure out what's the cheapest way to get there and back. All I know is that the ratio (transport miles to hiking miles) keeps increasing:sun.

Painted Turtle

04-09-2010, 10:47

Thanks, I think for bring that up :-) Never really though about the cost. It all started off so so innocent, a day here, a day there, a weekend etc.
Like you I live close to the trail and did all of CT, Mass and NY without much though. Now that I have all New England done plus NY,NJ,PA, MD, WVA, and down into the SNP I am looking at a 7+ hour drive and that is growing. Also as all know so is the price of gas. I now go for nothing lest then 4 days hiking one day hotel and then 4 days hiking. Cost? "What Me Worry" :-)

Pedaling Fool

04-09-2010, 10:59

This is why (IMO) section hiking is so much harder than thru-hiking. I can't imagine doing weekend (or even week-long) hikes in areas that require long distance driving.

BTW, I remember only a couple years ago as the prices were ~$2.50 per gallon and headed toward $4.00 people were bitchin', but now they're at ~$3.00 per gallon (and seems to be on the rise) in my area, yet no one seems to have a problem, but I'm sure we'll soon hit our new pain level for gas price, where ever that point is now that the global economy seems to be recovering, albeit slowly.

emerald

04-09-2010, 11:13

For many if not most, advocating for local trails, volunteering time at your local nature preserve and sending the money saved on gas to ATC would reap greater benefits for everyone.

sasquatch2014

04-09-2010, 11:31

For many if not most, advocating for local trails, volunteering time at your local nature preserve and sending the money saved on gas to ATC would reap greater benefits for everyone.

Thanks for missing the point of the thread.

flemdawg1

04-09-2010, 11:44

last section Devil Fork Gap to Erwin coming from Huntsville AL
miles driven 660 round trip
Miles hiked 32.7

Expenses:
gas 20 (drove my beater to trail, but coming back the expense was to a work trip)
hotel 65
dining 80
Shuttle 30
Food for hike $20
Total $220

Hikes in Rain

04-09-2010, 12:08

Planning and plotting for my next section hike, I-40 to Sam's Gap (or reverse), whensoever I can make that happen:

Gas: 496 miles each way, 25 mpg, assume $2.95/gallons: $117
Shuttle: $85?
Parking (may be included in shuttle, not sure) @ $2/day: $10

Probably a motel on the way back: ~$65?
Meals during trip: ~$40? Maybe less.

Miles hiked: about 80 in five days.

Ratio: $317/80 mi. = $3.96+ per mile.

Wow. Still likely the cheapest real vacation I can take.

dzierzak

04-09-2010, 12:08

I'm fortunate to have two weeks (usually) at one shot. Also, Amtrak lets me avoid driving. It makes for some interesting travel arrangements, but when factoring in train, shuttle, hotel/hostel, it comes out to about $350-$400 for my two weeks. I just have to make sure my start and end points are near transportation. $ per mile? about 3.00-3.50. Driving miles - home to train station and back. :)

Bilko

04-09-2010, 12:14

Sasquatch. Great Thread. 15 years of section hiking the AT and I reached the Massachusetts state line last summer. I lived in Atlanta, Ga when I started my continuous hike north. I call myself a Thru-Section hiker. I moved up to Rhode Island for a couple of years, but had a 700 mile drive to get down to the trail. I have since moved back to Atlanta.

I have section hiked the trail in continuous sections. My section hikes started out as day hikes. As of this year I have made 25 trips to the trail. I have had to travel over 3,500 miles just to get to my section hikes. I have used trains, planes, automobiles and more than a few shuttles to get to the trail.

I do not even what to think of the cost of transportation. In June, I will drive up to Rhode Island and drop off my car with friends and catch a bus over to Great Barrington,MA and then a shuttle down to the state line. My wife will fly up a couple of weeks later and get the car and find me on the trail, hopefully New Hampshire. I have as many stories about getting to and from the trail as I do hiking. I would not trade anyone of my experiences for money.

Pawling, NY. I love that town. Spent a couple of nights down by Ed Morrow Park. Had dinner and drinks at the Pawling Pub. A truly great place, great people, nice library, etc.

Is there a section just for section hikers at WB? If not we need to start one.

From my journal: http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=79980 Section hikers have different challenges than thru-hikers. Section hikers put in many hours and sometimes days just getting to the trail. I had a 1400 mile round trip drive just to get to the trail and back, July, 2005. In '07 I had to ride buses for 12 hours. After hiking our section we need to arrange transportation to get back to our vehicles or homes. Section hikers are just getting into hiking shape as our section hike is over. Our feet are usually soft when we start off and need a couple of days (weeks) to get them tough again. We don't establish the relationships with other hikers on the trail that thru-hikers make. When section hikers get on the trail they know they have a set number of days to hike, they often put in many miles or will hike in any conditions because they know their time is limited. Section hikers don't visit as many trail towns, because we need to make up for the limited amount of time. We don't take as many zero days. But the love of hiking is just as great. Section hikers do have a few advantages over the thru-hikers, we have the luxury of planning for several months for our next section. We usually pick a warm time of the year to hike. Section hikers don't have to quit their jobs, or change mailing addresses. We know that we will be home on a certain date.

1azarus

04-09-2010, 13:03

Alligator

04-09-2010, 13:10

Hikes in Rain

04-09-2010, 13:44

Hey, you're good!

emerald

04-09-2010, 14:40

Thanks for missing the point of the thread.

I didn't miss the point and the point I made is valid, nor was my point an attempt to derail the thread. It's just an alternative position, one I've long maintained, support here and generally adhere to myself with rare exceptions.

In the end, individuals and their own finances will determine how they spend their own time. I will have nothing more say other than to point out what Myron Avery accomplished as a hiker may be more impressive than Earl Shaffer's accomplishments though some here will fail to see how.

Pedaling Fool

04-09-2010, 18:05

...
From my journal: http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=79980 Section hikers have different challenges than thru-hikers. Section hikers put in many hours and sometimes days just getting to the trail. I had a 1400 mile round trip drive just to get to the trail and back, July, 2005. In '07 I had to ride buses for 12 hours. After hiking our section we need to arrange transportation to get back to our vehicles or homes. Section hikers are just getting into hiking shape as our section hike is over. Our feet are usually soft when we start off and need a couple of days (weeks) to get them tough again. We don't establish the relationships with other hikers on the trail that thru-hikers make. When section hikers get on the trail they know they have a set number of days to hike, they often put in many miles or will hike in any conditions because they know their time is limited. Section hikers don't visit as many trail towns, because we need to make up for the limited amount of time. We don't take as many zero days. But the love of hiking is just as great. Section hikers do have a few advantages over the thru-hikers, we have the luxury of planning for several months for our next section. We usually pick a warm time of the year to hike. Section hikers don't have to quit their jobs, or change mailing addresses. We know that we will be home on a certain date.
More good reasons why section hiking is so much tougher than thru-hiking, at least IMHO.

Painted Turtle

04-10-2010, 06:29

i think more cooperative ride offers for section hikers would be wonderful. for example: anyone want a ride from CT or whatever I'll pass by on my way to mile 77.5 on the skyline drive in the SNP on April 23... and/or a return ride April 26. well? pm please... yes, a ride-board would be nice.

I have been on the shuttle list for years and when asked what I charge my standard reply is, " I first like to try and barter a ride for a ride. If that fails then give me gas money." I have made some very good contacts and did all PA that way, I would shuttle him up here one weekend and he would shuttle me down there. I also got part of Northern VA. done that way and have more IOU rides waiting for me as I work South.

sasquatch2014

04-10-2010, 06:35

I have been on the shuttle list for years and when asked what I charge my standard reply is, " I first like to try and barter a ride for a ride. If that fails then give me gas money." I have made some very good contacts and did all PA that way, I would shuttle him up here one weekend and he would shuttle me down there. I also got part of Northern VA. done that way and have more IOU rides waiting for me as I work South.

I do some of that down here as well but not on any shuttle lists. I also have gotten to know some folks so that I have a few places to crash to help break up the drives or be able to get an early start. It's tough to get a full day of hiking in if you have been in the car for 4 hr or more and want t try and leave at daybreak makes for a very early departure the good news is there is very little traffic at 2 am.

Painted Turtle

04-10-2010, 07:07

I do some of that down here as well but not on any shuttle lists. I also have gotten to know some folks so that I have a few places to crash to help break up the drives or be able to get an early start. It's tough to get a full day of hiking in if you have been in the car for 4 hr or more and want t try and leave at daybreak makes for a very early departure the good news is there is very little traffic at 2 am.
2am - 3am are my usual starting times, but even then I take the back roads through Kent over to 22 down to 311 over to 84 and no matter what time of day there is very little traffic. I am off now to pick up three guys from Delaware. Hope they have friends down south :-) Or are planning a trip hiking down south :-) Always looking for connections.

Cookerhiker

04-10-2010, 21:45

My first AT section hike was 38.5 miles in Southern VT in '77. I finished the AT in Maine in Sept. '05 (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=117925). I never attempted to add the cost. On the one hand, it was probably expensive because many of my hikes were short - I never even hiked a 50 mile trip until I retired in '03. So for example, I drove all the way to Roan Mountain in '85 from Washington DC where I was living but only hiked 17.5 miles (part of the reason was my hiking partner bombed out).

On the other hand, I lived within 55 miles of the Trail but more important, I lived near the half-way point so short hikes were more feasible. I think this gave me an advantage over someone who lives "near the Trail" but in Georgia or Maine. So unlike some others whose section hiking was orderly and contiguous S-N or N-S, mine was random i.e. all over the place. I hiked most of VT and the Whites before the mid-80s but didn't hike PA east of the Susquehanna until 2003 even though it was much closer. I jumped down and hiked Mt. Rogers in the early 90s but didn't hike on the west side of I-81 until 2005. I grew up in Northern NJ and had family there until a few years ago but didn't hike the AT in NJ and NY until 2004. I covered all of Shenandoah NP through Harpers Ferry through day-hikes. Because so many of my hikes were short, I rarely spent any $$$ on shuttles - I hitched, rode my bike, or shuttled with 2 cars with a hiking partner.

I kept a spreadsheet with 2 sorts: chronological and S-N.

It seems like most WBers aver that section hiking is more challenging but I look at it this way: I section hiked because for me, thru-hiking was more challenging. Up until I hiked 100 miles from Springer to Wallace Gap in '04, hiking long-distance was utterly inconceivable to me - I had neither the gear, the fitness, nor the mental approach. Thru-hiking meant giving up work and family - again, inconceivable. Even now, I contemplate whether to attempt a thruhike in 2012 but a few doubts still linger along with the desire to use my remaining productive time on hikes I haven't done.

Toolshed

04-11-2010, 08:58

Having spent over a decade driving (5-6 hours each way) to the Adirondacks from Buffalo or Rochester, several times per month, I got somewhat acclimated with the long drive and felt spoiled in 2000 when I started hiking PA/NJ with such short drives.
No that I am doing stuff down in VA, the long drives and no carpooling are adding up, but it is only a couple of times per year and I slep at the trailhead so it isn't that bad. The longer drives give me a chance to see Southern Apps and have time to think.

WalkingStick75

04-11-2010, 09:17

If you want to place a dollar figure on section hiking over a thru hike, lots of money. A few of my section hikes planned to be a 80 mile week with my son but turned out to be 30 mile weeks. But it was a great 30 miles, it is more important to have fun and make sure it is a good experience over how many miles.

fredmugs

04-12-2010, 14:58

I am at the point where it is over 1,000 miles each way for me to hit the trail. The cost is getting significant but now that I have roughly 600 miles left I want to get the trial finished.

I love how if you talk about the cost somebody is going to say you should donate your money to maintaining the trail or some other worthy cause other than your own enjoyment.

If I mention that I want to get as many miles in as I can because of the cost and distance involved somebody else will rag on me because I don't want to stop and smell every flower.

I will be leaving Indiana on July 8th after work and taking 2 days to drive to (probably) Rutland, VT where I am hoping to do a 215 mile section hike to Grafton Notch, ME over a 2 week period. Throwing that out there in case somebody needs a ride.

sasquatch2014

04-12-2010, 20:39

I hear what you are saying. I will soon be at that point where I have a bunch of driving to get to new sections. What i reall love is the one who was saying you should spend the money on local trails has complted the whole trail themselves but not as a section hiker.

If I could help you in your drive I would.

sheepdog

04-12-2010, 20:49

living in Michigan, none of it's close. Never less than 5 days on the trail. Hope for 2 weeks at a time.
You just do what you gotta do

emerald

04-12-2010, 21:35

What I really love is the person saying you should spend the money on local trails has completed the whole trail himself but not as a section hiker.

Seems perfectly logical to me.:-?

modiyooch

04-13-2010, 08:17

The further I have to drive, the longer my section hike. Not necessarily, more expensive outside of gas $$. This means that I still cook at picnic tables, including coffee and I don't get hotel rooms.

modiyooch

04-13-2010, 08:23

My most expensive section hike was the remaining 15 miles in the wilderness that I had to go back and collect last summer because I got forced off the mountain last year due to rising water. I flew up for the w/e after suffering cabin fever.
It was also one of my most enjoying 15 miles and w/e.

Jaybird

04-13-2010, 08:25

As I once again found myself in the car driving down now all too familiar routes heading out for another section hike I began to think about all the miles that I have put on .........................................ETCETCETC ,.............What are you at for your section hike what is your cost or data?

SASQUATCH2014,

I've NEVER figured my cost per mile...interesting...
i do REALIZE it costs me a LOT MORE MONEY (air fare, shuttles) to section-hike (been doing this since 2002) than it does for the average THRU-HIKER...

even tho "AT TROLL" seems to be spending a CRAP LOAD OF MONEY supporting all the TRAIL TOWNS & EATERIES! hehehehehe:D

see ya'll out there Apr 24-May 8
Clarks Valley,PA NOBO to Greenwood Lake,NY
w/ "Jigsaw"

Gray Blazer

04-13-2010, 10:23

How much fun do you have per mile? Not as much as I do, I'll wager.