View Full Version : Bee allergies
brooktrout
04-09-2010, 14:11
Hi, I'm a newbie to the forum, just discovered it as I start planning a 2011 thru-hike. Just a quick question, I'm allergic to bees so I always carry a couple epi-pens when I'm fishing, hiking or camping. So far, never had to use one but as active as I am outdoors it's a matter of when, not if. Has anyone had experiences running into hornets, wasps or yellowjackets... of course I know they're out there, just wondering about any bad experiences.
brooktrout
HiKen2011
04-09-2010, 14:26
Yellow jackets are the most plentiful. They nest in the ground and sometimes close to or on the edge of the trail. If they are disturbed as you pass they will usually attack. Many times several stings. Wasps and hornets are not as big a threat.
The yellow jackets are always around shelters as well. They seem to be attracted to the smell of food.
If you're doing a thru hike I would plan on being stung.
Also just curious, if a person has never been alergic to stings can it come on at any time?
Detour
I've been stung my share over the years- mostly by those cantankerous yellow jackets.
However, I never had any problems with bees on last years thru-hike.
brooktrout
04-09-2010, 15:10
Yellow jackets are the most plentiful. They nest in the ground and sometimes close to or on the edge of the trail. If they are disturbed as you pass they will usually attack. Many times several stings. Wasps and hornets are not as big a threat.
The yellow jackets are always around shelters as well. They seem to be attracted to the smell of food.
If you're doing a thru hike I would plan on being stung.
Also just curious, if a person has never been alergic to stings can it come on at any time?
Detour
Good question, maybe a doctor on this forum could give us an answer. I first became aware of my bee allergies as a youth, the reactions became more severe after each stinging episode. I had a business associate a couple years ago who was not aware he was allergic, ran over a yellowjacket's nest with a lawn mower, and died. My guess is that the symptoms are always there if you are allergic (swelling, breathing difficulty)so if you never experience any reactions chances are you're not allergic. As a side note, I also have severe reactions to poison ivy and oak. Hell of a note for someone who spends a lot of time outdoors.
Speaking as an EMT, an epi-pen will only get you so far. In the case of the severely allergic, it will only give enough time for the paramedic to get there with IV Benedryl. If you are prone to severe reactions, and expect to far from medical services you may want to ask your Dr about getting a syringe of Benedryl for a SHTF moment.
I'm not a doctor, so this advice is free: yes, a person not known previously to be allergic can develop an allergy. I had been stung before without reaction, then had a severe one from a nasty black wasp. I've been stung since, sometimes I react, others not. Since that one time, I've only reacted enough to shoot up once, but my doctor says to just shoot... don't wait to see if you react. You can bet I carry an epi pen and benadryl (chew tabs - hadn't thought about a syringe of the stuff).
I learned by chance years ago mowing the grass that I am very allergic to yellow-jacket venom. I had been stung long before that but it was no big deal then.
Late summer last year in GA I was pretty nervous when I saw countless yellowjackets 'patrolling' the trail near ground-level, feeding maybe (?), but they weren't aggressive or interested in my passing by. I got used to it but it was surreal the first day.
If you carry an epipen you should also have benadryl. You can now get it formulated in a very thin sheet that dissolves on your tongue.
Johnny Appleseed
04-09-2010, 16:24
Try to not follow other hikers, esp. the clumsy ones. I was ahead/behind several who kicked a log on the trail and got stung. Me I never saw any on my hike, but I watch my steps.
Do not touch logs. Watch your hike poles.
Pedaling Fool
04-09-2010, 18:26
During my thru in 2006 once the weather got warm there were tons of carpenter/bumble bees http://www.pestproducts.com/bumble-bees.htm everywhere; they would land on me while taking breaks. I got to the point of not swatting at them and I noticed that they just wanted to lick the salt off my body.
However, I did get stung once when one crawled up my leg, unbeknownst to me, and I moved and trapped it between my leg and pants, it felt threatened and stung me. Very itchy for a long time, but it could have been much worse, if you know what I mean:)
You could change your trail name to Smilin' Bob:eek:
Generally, honey bees aren't going to sting unless threatened.
Yellow jackets are buttheads and will sting without much provocation. I had a bad reaction last year. I was hit by several yellow jackets on my legs. The one leg swelled to magnanimous proportions and became difficult to walk on. We got off the trail and got a ride to the ER. I literally watched the leg bubble with blisters from the time we left the trail to the time we got to the hospital. It was just gross. Even the doctor looked at it and said, "Ewww.".
Nasty, for sure. But the wet conditions last year apparently ruined quite a few nests and food supplies, and made for some very agitated yellow jackets with strong venom. The ER said they'd had more than the usual number of icky stings that summer.
Old Hiker
04-10-2010, 12:48
We've had several Scouts stung numerous times during section hikes. One Scout had 30+ stings, all because the moe-rons ahead of them were throwing rocks at a nest by the trail several minutes before. I had three hit my bare foot as I was boiling water to start supper - don't know where they came from!
Be sure to let people know around you about your allergies, where the pen(s) are, where the syringes are, etc. We can't help if we don't know.
Good luck.
sparky2009
04-10-2010, 13:21
I carry a couple of epipens and benadryl when on the trail. Didn't have allergies to wasp/bee/yellow jacket stinks until about a year ago. Before then, I've been stung many times without any reactions. My doctor told me that everytime that I'm stung from this point on, the reaction will probably be a little worse then the previous time. :(
When hiking last fall, I encountered a couple of yellow jacket nests that were apparently dug up by bears or maybe something else. Others warned us about them so I covered up as best I could until I got past the nest. Don't know if that made a difference but I did get past the nest without getting stung. :D
Being allergic to bee (and wasp) stings, I have a theory: When you get stung near a hive of yellow jackets, the ones who will probably get to you are the "guards". I've been stung away from the hives and have suffered little more than the typical pain and some swelling. Twice in the past 10 years I have disturbed a nest and gotten stung very close to it (and very quickly). On both of those occasions I had a much more severe reaction to the sting than previously.
I have only used the Epipen once, after being stung by a white-faced (bald-faced) hornet. I wasn't sure if I needed to use it, but did so anyhow. I got short of breath from the epinephrine and had to call the local rescue for oxygen. They said that my reaction was not atypical - not usual, but not unusual, either. The last sting by a yellow jacket near the hive (or nest) was on the side of my face. The area around my face went numb, and the whole right side of my face and neck became swollen. I had hives from head to toe. I called my mom, who is a retired RN and said I was on my way to see her - or the hospital, if the symptoms didn't diminish. Half an hour after taking some Benedryl, the itching and swelling started to subside (oh, I forgot to tell you, I was in the beginning stages of anaphylaxis - the windpipe closing off).
Breathing a sigh of relief, I took the exit toward my mom's house and felt nearly completely healed the next day.
Close call.
Trailweaver
04-10-2010, 22:20
Tinker. . . you might want to re-think getting in the car when you are having a reaction to a sting. If you had passed out in the car you could cause a wreck, injuring or killing yourself or someone else. Next time call an ambulance! Your family could also be held liable for an accident you caused if you passed out and hit someone else.
Graywolf
04-10-2010, 22:39
I dont get reactions to stings, BUT, I am allergic to any kind of needle..I dont care if it is from the rear end of a yellowjacket or a syringe, I HATE em...
just sayin....
Graywolf
TIDE-HSV
04-11-2010, 11:46
Also not a doc, but I've had reason to research a bit, since my mother was very allergic, going into anaphylactic shock each time. A neighbor was a bee-keeper for many years and stung as they frequently are. Then, he was stung one time too many and ended up in the hospital. One thing I found out is that, the more locally allergic you are - local swelling, etc. - the less likely you are to suffer the deadly reactions. I hardly react at all, but OTOH, my wife swells up from a mosquito bite. I carry the epi-pen, but as said above, I'm not sure how much good it would do, if you were hours away from an ER...
One thing I found out is that, the more locally allergic you are - local swelling, etc. - the less likely you are to suffer the deadly reactions.
A severe local reaction can be equally as fatal. A single sting on the neck can close off the airway pretty quickly for some people.
TIDE-HSV
04-12-2010, 12:54
A severe local reaction can be equally as fatal. A single sting on the neck can close off the airway pretty quickly for some people.
Good point. I once got stung under the tongue. I had kayaked Section IV of the Chatooga (border between SC and GA). We were loading up the car and I put my beer down on the hood. When I picked it up, there was something fuzzy under my tongue. Then, my mouth was flooded with a taste like novocaine like in the dentist's office and a dull pain under the left side of my tongue. I then spit out a yellow jacket and stomped on it. I took a couple of Advil, but I had a dull ache under my tongue for the next several hours. At least it helped keep me awake for the long drive home while the rest of the passengers slept. Well that kept me awake and the 30 minute stop by the Hayesville police, while they checked us out with the FBI database, I guess. Who would drive a getaway car with four yaks on top?
flemdawg1
04-12-2010, 13:10
Hi, I'm a newbie to the forum, just discovered it as I start planning a 2011 thru-hike. Just a quick question, I'm allergic to bees so I always carry a couple epi-pens when I'm fishing, hiking or camping. So far, never had to use one but as active as I am outdoors it's a matter of when, not if. Has anyone had experiences running into hornets, wasps or yellowjackets... of course I know they're out there, just wondering about any bad experiences.
brooktrout
Got stung by a yellow jacket last summer as I was coming down the mtn North of Duncannon. I'm not allergic though.
Slightly unrelated, but a few years back, I was pumping gas, and this very aggressive stinging thing (yellow jacket) kept charging at me. I kept moving away to avoid it, but to no avail.
Would you believe, it stung me through a layer of clothing? That sucker was really pissed about something.... K2
esmusssein
04-12-2010, 14:55
How severe of a reaction should one have had in the past in order to get an epi pen?
Every time I have been stung, the area has swelled rapidly, but I've also taken benadryl quickly. Should I be carrying an epi pen? If I were stung on the neck, I suppose my neck would swell up? But I haven't had a systemic reaction.
Sorry to hijack the conversation; I was just wondering whether other people carried epi pens just in case.
How severe of a reaction should one have had in the past in order to get an epi pen?
Every time I have been stung, the area has swelled rapidly, but I've also taken benadryl quickly. Should I be carrying an epi pen? If I were stung on the neck, I suppose my neck would swell up? But I haven't had a systemic reaction.
Sorry to hijack the conversation; I was just wondering whether other people carried epi pens just in case.
In my case I was told to start carrying an Epi Pen after my first systemic reaction to yellow jacket stings. Prior to that event I had a couple large local reactions that were treated with prednisone.
Currently I am receiving monthly shots to desensitize myself to yellow jackets and other hornet's venom - something I would recommend to other hikers due to the limitations of the Epi Pen with respect to getting follow-on EMS treatment when out on the trail. In other words an Epi Pen is a reasonable choice if an ambulance can get to you in 15 minutes but when you are hours away from any trail head ...
TIDE-HSV
04-12-2010, 21:27
Slightly unrelated, but a few years back, I was pumping gas, and this very aggressive stinging thing (yellow jacket) kept charging at me. I kept moving away to avoid it, but to no avail.
Would you believe, it stung me through a layer of clothing? That sucker was really pissed about something.... K2
I'm not surprised at all. If they can do it before you kill them, they take a bite out of you and hump their little abdomens and inject the toxin into the wound. That's the reason it hurts so bad and the reason you have an actual wound, instead of just a sting. Deer flies take a similar bite, but then they fly off with their meat and they're done...
Appalachian Tater
04-12-2010, 21:35
Deer flies take a similar bite, but then they fly off with their meat and they're done...What they are really doing is creating a little pool in your flesh to drink blood from.
TIDE-HSV
04-12-2010, 21:38
What they are really doing is creating a little pool in your flesh to drink blood from.
Do you hold still for them? :confused:
Appalachian Tater
04-12-2010, 21:45
Do you hold still for them? :confused:No but they don't care, they follow me and keep attacking unless I kill them.
As far as the allergies, as is said above, if you are severely allergic and have to use an epi pen, that isn't going to help but 10-15 minutes. I don't know if dosing yourself with a bunch of oral diphenhydramine will work, maybe if you take another epi injection to buy enough time, but it is definitely something you need to talk to your doctor about if you are allergic. Assume you need to self-treat and will not be able to get to a doctor at all.
Tinker. . . you might want to re-think getting in the car when you are having a reaction to a sting. If you had passed out in the car you could cause a wreck, injuring or killing yourself or someone else. Next time call an ambulance! Your family could also be held liable for an accident you caused if you passed out and hit someone else.
That never dawned on me. I hadn't had a reaction like that before and never had any dizziness or tiredness with it - just lots of itchy red spots and swelling.
TIDE-HSV
04-12-2010, 21:52
No but they don't care, they follow me and keep attacking unless I kill them.
As far as the allergies, as is said above, if you are severely allergic and have to use an epi pen, that isn't going to help but 10-15 minutes. I don't know if dosing yourself with a bunch of oral diphenhydramine will work, maybe if you take another epi injection to buy enough time, but it is definitely something you need to talk to your doctor about if you are allergic. Assume you need to self-treat and will not be able to get to a doctor at all.
I think the advice is good, despite the fact that I've been stung under the tongue and survived. Hiking with deer flies, I usually just stop and wait for them to home in on the back of my calves and smack them there. (That's after they've bounced off my earphones a few times. The worst times I've had with them are on bike tours. They're murder on long uphills. Both feet are locked into the pedals and you only have one arm free at a time to try to beat them off...
TIDE-HSV
04-12-2010, 21:57
Your family could also be held liable for an accident you caused if you passed out and hit someone else.
This is not true anywhere that I know of. The only way family members are responsible for damage caused by a family member is if he's their "agent," which means on an errand or other business of theirs. There is no liability just for being a family member. IF, and that's a big, IF, he were found to be negligent just for trying to save his own life, then any assets he owned with other family members might be a risk for attachment for any judgment rendered against him - but, as I said, that is one big reach. There are lots of real things to worry about, but this is not one of them...
brooktrout
04-13-2010, 10:38
In my case I was told to start carrying an Epi Pen after my first systemic reaction to yellow jacket stings. Prior to that event I had a couple large local reactions that were treated with prednisone.
Currently I am receiving monthly shots to desensitize myself to yellow jackets and other hornet's venom - something I would recommend to other hikers due to the limitations of the Epi Pen with respect to getting follow-on EMS treatment when out on the trail. In other words an Epi Pen is a reasonable choice if an ambulance can get to you in 15 minutes but when you are hours away from any trail head ...
wasn't aware you could get monthly shots to desensitize, but it does make sense. I'll check with an allergist, thanks for the suggestion.
I got stung three times in one day in CT. And then one more time for good measure the day after that. I was exhausted after that, but the 8 mile river walk helped.
sparky2009
12-30-2010, 21:56
I had more discussions with doctors on this topic. In my previous post, I stated that I carried Epi-pens and Benadryl. Based on the discussion with them, I'm going to change the Benadryl to a liquid form for faster absorption. Also, I'm going to get a perscription for Prednisone, a synthetic corticosteroid drug that is particularly effective as an immunosuppressant drug. Basically, I'll be able to effectively treat the bee sting on the trail without the worry of getting to the emergency room quickly. I'll still go just to be sure (and to replenish what was used).
The only drawback to using Prednisone is that it is oral and thus slower to start acting than an injection would be. The best solution for that problem is to carry a second Epi-pen just in case it takes more time for the Prednisone to kick in.
Also, I'll be getting the shots to desensitize me from bee stings. According to the allergist, it reduces the probability of a reaction to 3% and if there is a reaction, it is a lot less of one compared to not getting desensitized. Note that it takes about 2 months of treatment before the benefits are seen so get started now if you want this before the start of your 2011 thru-hike.
Yeah, this basically sounds like overkill but I don't want to leave anything to chance. Besides, carrying all of this stuff may save someone else's life if they have an allergic reaction to bee stings.
I had more discussions with doctors on this topic. In my previous post, I stated that I carried Epi-pens and Benadryl. Based on the discussion with them, I'm going to change the Benadryl to a liquid form for faster absorption. Also, I'm going to get a perscription for Prednisone, a synthetic corticosteroid drug that is particularly effective as an immunosuppressant drug. Basically, I'll be able to effectively treat the bee sting on the trail without the worry of getting to the emergency room quickly. I'll still go just to be sure (and to replenish what was used).
The only drawback to using Prednisone is that it is oral and thus slower to start acting than an injection would be. The best solution for that problem is to carry a second Epi-pen just in case it takes more time for the Prednisone to kick in.
Also, I'll be getting the shots to desensitize me from bee stings. According to the allergist, it reduces the probability of a reaction to 3% and if there is a reaction, it is a lot less of one compared to not getting desensitized. Note that it takes about 2 months of treatment before the benefits are seen so get started now if you want this before the start of your 2011 thru-hike.
Yeah, this basically sounds like overkill but I don't want to leave anything to chance. Besides, carrying all of this stuff may save someone else's life if they have an allergic reaction to bee stings.
Have also checked with the doc in the mirror - this is very good advice. If you have "systemic" allergy (hives, airway swelling, asthmatic reaction, or low blood pressure) reaction to stings: If stung, take benadryl AND prednisone (needs a prescription) immediately and be ready to use the EpiPen - all it does in the woods is buy time for the prednisone and benadryl to work. A second EpiPen is reasonable to have if the first one wears off and the meds haven't kicked in yet. Talk to your doctor . . .
TIDE-HSV
01-01-2011, 01:19
I had more discussions with doctors on this topic. In my previous post, I stated that I carried Epi-pens and Benadryl. Based on the discussion with them, I'm going to change the Benadryl to a liquid form for faster absorption. Also, I'm going to get a perscription for Prednisone, a synthetic corticosteroid drug that is particularly effective as an immunosuppressant drug. Basically, I'll be able to effectively treat the bee sting on the trail without the worry of getting to the emergency room quickly. I'll still go just to be sure (and to replenish what was used).
The only drawback to using Prednisone is that it is oral and thus slower to start acting than an injection would be. The best solution for that problem is to carry a second Epi-pen just in case it takes more time for the Prednisone to kick in.
Also, I'll be getting the shots to desensitize me from bee stings. According to the allergist, it reduces the probability of a reaction to 3% and if there is a reaction, it is a lot less of one compared to not getting desensitized. Note that it takes about 2 months of treatment before the benefits are seen so get started now if you want this before the start of your 2011 thru-hike.
Yeah, this basically sounds like overkill but I don't want to leave anything to chance. Besides, carrying all of this stuff may save someone else's life if they have an allergic reaction to bee stings.
Hmm... Very good advice. I have a pseudo-gout problem that I have a supply of 20 mg prednisone for and it certainly wouldn't hurt to throw several in...
Trailweaver
01-01-2011, 01:49
No one has mentioned this, but it would also help to know that yellow jackets also attack more aggressively after you swat one of them (or more) and kill one. The body emmits a phermone (scent) to let the other yellow jackets in the hive know that there is "danger" and they come after you. That's why after you run over the hive with the lawn mower (and get stung) you naturally swat the one that got you (usually more than one) and start running away from the scene (a natural reaction, but one that the yellow jackets take as a threat also) and thus you end up with multiple stings. It's really a scary thing to happen, and not fun at all.
Hikerhead
01-01-2011, 01:59
The Yellow Jacket dance. More fun to watch than to be a participant. :)
Two years ago I was lunching at the Ed Garvey shelter and was stung by a wasp and a yellow jacket in quick succession. I hate that shelter.