PDA

View Full Version : Mohican Outdoor Center



Krag
10-21-2004, 12:19
Stayed at Mohican Outdoor Center recently after a 30 mile day. There are no shelters for around 25 miles north of Delaware Water Gap. Anyone know what prevented a shelter from being built north of DWG? MOC actually charges 20 bucks if you are a section hiker, not the 12.50 listed in the book--that's only for end-to-enders...

Lone Wolf
10-21-2004, 12:58
Another example of special treatment for thru-hikers. It should be the other way around. Or treat EVERY hiker the same. Thru-hikers shouldn't get special treatment in the Whites either. Pay full price or move on.

bearbait2k4
10-21-2004, 13:00
I loved the Mohican Outdoor Center when I stayed in 2003.

If I can remember correctly, tenting was free, and you could still use the facilities indoors. That, however, could have also been for thru-hikers only as well.

If you have a thru-hiker or companion book, you need to remember that almost all of that information pertains to thru-hikers, specifically.

Alligator
10-21-2004, 14:56
I passed through there in the summer. I was told I could stay and tent for free. Nobody asked if I was a thru, but I sort of look like a thru. I had only been out for 1 day, so I didn't smell like one though :banana . But then again, none of the hikers there really spoke to me:-? . However, I didn't stay, I thought a thru would appreciate the space more. I just bought a soda and a candy bar, filled up my water and camped further along. I thought the electric fence around the garbage was cool.

A-Train
10-21-2004, 16:47
Its worth noting that 17.6 miles north of DWG is Blue Mtn Lakes Road. There is camping just before the road and there was a water pump, though I think they may have stopped its use/taken it out. From here its a mile off trail to Camp Ken-itt-wa-pec, or something to that extent. A couple of us spent a fun night there in 03'. Friendly camp director and a pretty lake. They offer 2 enclosed shelters with mattress. This place is kind of a hidden jewel. No food or showers, but certainly a great place to be if your not keen about tenting in this high bear area. Brink Road is really old and run down and small and so close to a road, I've always thought this section was a good candidate for a shelter somewhere. Maybe there is a private land issue or something, though I think the whole section of trail here is the DWG recreation area...?

I've been to Mohican a couple times, as a weekend warrior and thru-hiker and they are extremely nice folks. I was treated equally well each time. Their cabins are a cozy place to be on a winters night and I thought it was well worth the 17 odd bucks they charge. This is the AMC at its best IMO

The Solemates
10-21-2004, 17:08
We stayed at MOC this year on our thru and had a great time. We managed to hit it on a Saturday night, when they have live entertainment (this is every Sat night!) We showed up, they fed us lasagna, soup, salad, and cake and then we hung out listening to the band until late. We also tented for free. Thoroughly enjoyable.

Flash Hand
10-21-2004, 19:36
Another example of special treatment for thru-hikers. It should be the other way around. Or treat EVERY hiker the same. Thru-hikers shouldn't get special treatment in the Whites either. Pay full price or move on.

They knows that thru-hikers will be entering their area with thin cash, after month of spending. Thru hikers don't bring thick cash. Most thru hikers can be cash strapped. They knows that we have tight budget for 6 months of thru hike.

SO, they knows that thru hikers wouldn't have enough options to use purchase powers. I am not surprised if thru hikers just hiked past them because of $20.

L. Wolf, sorry, if its my first disagreement with ya but its not about special treatment for thru hikers, it is about business.

Section hikers have thick wallet.

If its 20 bucks.. I will just pass and tent out somewhere.

Flash Hand :jump

Toolshed
10-22-2004, 09:34
Its worth noting that 17.6 miles north of DWG is Blue Mtn Lakes Road. There is camping just before the road and there was a water pump, though I think they may have stopped its use/taken it out.

Atrain -
The pump is still working fine (as of this summer). I also agree that there are some beautiful flat spots just before you get to BML Road. However, having spent a couple of nights there over the years, thos spots are completely infested with wood ticks (AKA dog ticks, not deer ticks) and spent the evening pulling a few off myself and my 4-year old - and since we hiked on the old road, the tick exposure was mostly from sitting on some rocks eating dinner and enjoying views.

There is also a great camping spot several miles after you pass Crater Lake - You drop down into the hemlock grove just before climbing up to the summit of Rattlesnake Mountain - plenty of nice forest cover and water.

Dharma
10-22-2004, 14:02
Camp Ken-itt-wa-pec, or something to that extent.
Yeah, whatever it's called. Kinloch and I took the mile walk down to the camp. It was before they opened for the season so we had the whole place, and the lake, to ourselves.

There are two screened cabins down next to the lake. The right one leaks... a lot! :P It was a great place to stay and for the right price... free.

Jeff
10-22-2004, 15:37
The YMCA Camp 1 mile below Blue Mountain Lakes Rd is on a beautiful spot. Did a little work for stay in August '04 and scored dinner & breakfast for free!!!

El Toro '94
06-12-2009, 20:54
Anyone know if Mohican is open year round(late Oct-early Nov.)? Will be out of shape and will definitly not be ready for the 25 miler from Brink to DWG.Was going to start a DWG to Springer at DWG, but may start at Bear mtn.

SoundWitness
06-12-2009, 21:42
I have stayed there in Mid-October, but you can e-mail them or contact for info and/or reservations

http://www.outdoors.org/lodging/lodges/mohican/mohican-rates.cfm

GalHikingTheGap
06-19-2010, 07:11
The YMCA Camp 1 mile below Blue Mountain Lakes Rd is on a beautiful spot. Did a little work for stay in August '04 and scored dinner & breakfast for free!!!

I'm 99.9% sure that camp is closed now, it was leased to the Y by Uncle Sam and was a losing venture. The closest open Y now is Camp Mason up Millbrook Road.

DWG is a place that's nice to have a tent at -- Backpackers' site, there are overlooks about 1-2 miles up from Mohican before you pass the orange rattlesnake swamp trail and hit Catfish Tower. Similarly, there are a few places to tent before you hit Blue Mountain Lakes Road, fairview lakes overlooks.

Dogwood
06-19-2010, 10:03
From here its a mile off trail to Camp Ken-itt-wa-pec, or something to that extent. A couple of us spent a fun night there in 03'. Friendly camp director and a pretty lake. They offer 2 enclosed shelters with mattress. This place is kind of a hidden jewel. No food or showers, but certainly a great place to be if your not keen about tenting in this high bear area. - ATrain

Yeah, whatever it's called. Kinloch and I took the mile walk down to the camp. It was before they opened for the season so we had the whole place, and the lake, to ourselves.

There are two screened cabins down next to the lake. The right one leaks... a lot! :P It was a great place to stay and for the right price... free. - Dharma

I went through here in 06. Two screened cabins on the shoreline of a scenic swimming lake(beach area) in a quiet spot at the camp. The water was so warm and I was so thru-hiker filthy I remember enjoying it well. There was a little raft you could swim out to. I was told by the camp director the shelters were open to hikers for free as long as there were no groups from the camp staying in them, which the camp director told me was practically never. I got there around dinner time. I was invited to eat at the dining hall if I came near the end of dinner. The folks were very nice, but they don't cater to you, which is what I wanted and what I expected since I was not paying to stay there. I offered to help wash some dishes (for all of 15 mins) which they all seemed to greatly appreciate.

It did rain hard and the roof does leak in the one shelter because the roof is damaged. Even though a private camp, I would like to see some AT hikers show their appreciation by fixing the leaky roof by donating some materials and labor! I think the camp is mostly a losing or break-even financial proposition. Shame! because like A-Train said the place is like a hidden jewel. Just needs the right care and support.

The access road to the camp may not even be a mile. The Camp Director let me know of a connector trail back to the AT(about a mile or so long) that starts beyond the screened shelters at the far end of the lake. It's a bit overgrown, but easy to follow and it means you don't have to backtrack to get back to the AT.

It was late July or Aug when I went through and since the shelters are on a lake there were abundant skeeters.

Panzer1
06-19-2010, 11:46
MOC actually charges 20 bucks if you are a section hiker, not the 12.50 listed in the book--that's only for end-to-enders...

Then don't stay there if your a section hiker. I wouldn't blame you for not wanting to pay more just because your a section hiker. But you can camp there for free.

Also there are many camp sites north of there with very good views of the valley below and with a nice breeze to keep the mosquitoes at bay.

Panzer

Old Grouse
06-19-2010, 12:06
Panzer's right. Just north of MOC on the ridge there are some super spots to tent or hang.

horicon
06-22-2010, 06:37
The qre part of the AMC, American Money Collectors.

somers515
05-26-2014, 09:14
I stayed there recently and had a good experience. We reserved a walk-in tent site ($12 per person). It had a picnic table, bear box, privy, close walk to a water spigot. The tent sites were a little close together is my only negative, but everyone was friendly and helpful.

ChinMusic
05-26-2014, 14:23
Panzer's right. Just north of MOC on the ridge there are some super spots to tent or hang.

I met a buddy that was going SOBO at Mohican. If it wasn't for that meeting I would have camped on that ridge. As a bonus I had LTE up there.

bamboo bob
05-26-2014, 19:05
I stayed at MOC once with a bunch of thruhikers it was nice and I think free at the time. 2000?

Another time I camped on the ridge it was very nice dry camp. And once I just crossed the road, Blue Mt? and stealthed in the woods.

CheeseGrits
11-04-2015, 11:02
I was on an Appalachian Trail thru-hike attempt this year (2015). After reading a favorable description of the property in AWOLs book, I mailed a resupply box there, intending to tent there for the night, resupply, and re-forward my "bounce box". I arrived about sunset on August 8, 2015, requesting my bounce box, and tent space for the night.

I was incredulous when told that the WHOLE property had been reserved for a wedding that weekend, and that I would have to move on into the night and find a place to wild camp. Of course, I was very experienced in doing that, since I had had hiked 1,304 miles before arriving there.

But, the issue is this: What indeed is the mission of the Appalachian Mountain Club, who owns the Mohican Outdoor Center? Despite their loftily stated goals, it obviously is merely to make money any way they can, rather than serving the needs of the hiking and outdoor community. I join the sentiments of a previous poster, who stated that AMC actually stands for American Money Collectors.

Of course there was ample space to tent camp on the property - they own what must be hundreds of acres. They could have offered me a place in their woods to set up my tent, go through and bounce box and mail it out again the next day, but NO! The manager was adamant that the WHOLE property was unavailable.

So, out into the evening I went, now carrying the heaviest pack of my whole journey because I now had the whole of my 15 pound bounce box strapped to the top of my pack, not being able to ship it forward.

I must say that in the whole of my hike, this was the ONLY time I was turned away for lodging, and this was from a place purportedly to serve the needs of outdoor enthusiasts!

In contrast, several small towns (Unionville, NY, Port Clinton, VA, and Glasgow, VA, to name just a few) provided free lodging to hikers at locales that they constructed just for that purpose, and several business establishments offer free tenting to hikers on their property (South Mountain Hotel in South Mountain, PA was a shining example).

No, I was not looking for "free" lodging at all - I was expecting to pay for my tent site, of course. But, to be turned away by an organization that supposedly serves the outdoor community was an insult, and shows the AMC and the Mohican Outdoor Center in a very poor light.

I would encourage AT thru-hikers to avoid this place like the plague - they obviously do not care about the AT hiker community. Take your money elsewhere, and let them cater to the needs of the well-heeled who can rent out the whole place to fill their coffers.

BonBon
11-04-2015, 11:34
Vermont- Live free or die. AMC- pay up or die.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

BonBon
11-04-2015, 11:36
I mean New Hampshire. Live Free or Die. We thought It was interesting that a state with that logo had the strictest rules and the most red tape type stuff with the huts.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

jbwood5
11-04-2015, 13:06
Wow, that is sad to hear. I stayed there in 2004 but they dinged me for $20. I don't think the AMC owned it back then but not sure. Anyhow, I really couldn't complain because I had an entire bunk room to myself, with full cooking facilities, including a stove and fridge plus access to a bath house with hot showers. There was a cold rain that night, so that lessened the $20 hit in my mind. I was glad to have found the place. It was a long walk back to the bunkhouse which may have explained why I had it to myself. I was doing a 400 mile section that year.

Why in the world would they rent the entire facility for a wedding is beyond me..... and I would have to question if the wedding party attendees really knew what they were buying for their money. This must have been some AMC dignitary's daughter or son getting married - lol.

I'd be tempted to write a letter to AMC to get an explanation for this, and what their true intention is for the facility. BTW, you can make advance reservations, but that is not something that thru hikers do very often.

One thing you can almost always say about the trail...... is it has lots of surprises and unexpected situations; some good and some bad.

Slo-go'en
11-04-2015, 13:08
The AMC facilities predate the AT by many, many years. They have no obligation to service thru hikers, but yet in many cases they offer free accommodations. The problem is there are way too many thru hikers these days to accommodate them all and too many of these thru hikers feel that they are in some way "special" or "entitled" since they are thru hikers.

It's unfortunate that CheeseGrits had poor timing when he arrived at the Mohican center, but he probably got a free stay and pancakes at Upper Goose pond and maybe even a "work for stay" at one or more of the huts, so it all evens out in the end. Try not to show up at any of these places on the weekend, when there is a good chance you'll be turned away.

I'm not a big fan of the AMC, but I do understand their history and the problems they have to deal with here in the Whites with crowd management.

Monello
11-04-2015, 13:34
I remember when Mohican was a boy scout camp back in the early 70s. Too bad a few of the buildings are no longer there.

Lone Wolf
11-04-2015, 14:07
that's the chance you take showing up after sunset with no reservations. another reason to not do mail drops. AMC is not the problem

tdoczi
11-04-2015, 15:14
I mean New Hampshire. Live Free or Die. We thought It was interesting that a state with that logo had the strictest rules and the most red tape type stuff with the huts.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

you spend most of your time hiking in NH on federal land. just saying...

Starchild
11-04-2015, 16:28
The AMC facilities predate the AT by many, many years. They have no obligation to service thru hikers, but yet in many cases they offer free accommodations.

Simply you have most of this bassawkards.
- only one location they are contractually obligated to cater to and provide free stays, upper Goose Pond, simply because it is not their's and the only reason they give us free stays is because they agreed to such a deal. By and large all others are paid, or work for stay, which is also a form of paid stays. The only arguable exception for the work for stay is Lakes Hut which is considered to remote to turn thru hikers away from work for stay request, so for liability reasons AMC does allow more work for stay thru hikers then is really needed.

As for everything else they have build a lucrative business out of getting city people into the wilderness in a Disney park way. Thru hikers threaten their business model because they don't need the AMC business model, and AMC likes to not make them or our trail very evident to their paying clients.


The problem is there are way too many thru hikers these days to accommodate them all and too many of these thru hikers feel that they are in some way "special" or "entitled" since they are thru hikers.

They certainly are special and entitled and are recognized as such on the national, state and local level (as well as many businesses and trail angels) - as in thru hiker permit for thru hikers in GSMNP (National), Free stay at the Birches (Baxter State Park - State), Being allowed to stay in the town park (Pawling NY - local). Among many examples. Thru hikers are simply entitled to special privileges.


It's unfortunate that CheeseGrits had poor timing when he arrived at the Mohican center

Mohican Center was the worst of the worst, I almost got the post master general to investigated them for intentionally withholding my package. Wish I did, mail fraud is a federal offense. They also seemed to do this with several other thru hikers, but ever ready to sell them sandwiches while they wait for today's mail (which they didn't check yet).

Sorry to see that they have not improved.

, but he probably got a free stay and pancakes at Upper Goose pond and maybe even a "work for stay" at one or more of the huts, so it all evens out in the end.

A work for stay evens it out??? It's a mutually beneficial agreement, nothing is given if you are required to work for your stay.

earlyriser26
11-04-2015, 16:59
Funny, no one has answered the OP's question. Why has no shelter been built?

Slo-go'en
11-04-2015, 18:20
The Mohican center is not a post office. You send mail there at your own risk. Mail is not delivered there, they have to go get it. Stupid place to send a mail drop, you just left the Water Gap that day.

Starchild
11-04-2015, 19:37
The Mohican center is not a post office. You send mail there at your own risk. Mail is not delivered there, they have to go get it. Stupid place to send a mail drop, you just left the Water Gap that day.
There are also legal obligations in accepting mail for another, quite serious ones.

jimmyjam
11-04-2015, 19:55
When we stopped there this summer on our LASH the girls running it were less than professional. We got there about 4:50 and they were already trying to close up. We barely got them to give us our packages. The real kicker to me was the next day when we went in to pay up because we called ahead and made a reservation we had to pay more than if we had just walked in! I was astounded that calling ahead costs you more. The girl said yeah if you hadn't called I could have given you the hiker discount but since you called I can't - what a bunch of crap.

rocketsocks
11-04-2015, 20:56
Funny, no one has answered the OP's question. Why has no shelter been built?
Well I don't know about shelters not being built there, but there use to be another backpacker site that was available closer to the gap, stayed there a lot over the years. It's my understanding that after a fire got outta hand and burned the woods up they nixed that one...what's left is one tent site further noth and the only one between the gap and mohican center.

Lone Wolf
11-04-2015, 21:05
no need for a shelter in that area. pitch a dang tent. whining is startin' to take over

BonBon
11-04-2015, 21:08
The place that really needs a camping option is Madison Hut.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Lone Wolf
11-04-2015, 21:17
The place that really needs a camping option is Madison Hut.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

absolutely not

BonBon
11-04-2015, 21:21
You are wrong.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

jbwood5
11-04-2015, 21:21
I think that is the BP site south of Sunfish Pond. It is OK during the week but there are tons of rocks and it is hard to find a tent site completely clear of rocks. Water may be iffy or non-existent, depending on the time of the year. Sunfish Pond would then be the source if the spring isn't flowing. It has been quite a while since I camped there.... and as I recall, camping around the pond is forbidden and that is strictly enforced.

Lone Wolf
11-04-2015, 21:28
You are wrong.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

no, i'm very right. too exposed. they're not there to cater to through hikers. reserve a room or get below tree line

BonBon
11-04-2015, 21:54
There is a long stretch between "below tree line" before Mt. Washington and after Mt Madison. With all of the hikers out there- both thru and section and weekend- the stealth spots are hard to come by. There is a place where camping is possible at Madison, but they instead encourage people to hike down an alternate steep trail, even at night. They didn't want their guests to see the tents in the morning. Yes, they said that to me. Nobody wants to be catered to, but a reasonable distance between campsites is not too much to ask for. This particular area adds to the perception of the "pay up or die" feeling that MANY have about the AMC.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Slo-go'en
11-04-2015, 23:09
There is a long stretch between "below tree line" before Mt. Washington and after Mt Madison. With all of the hikers out there- both thru and section and weekend- the stealth spots are hard to come by.

There ARE NO stealth spots between Washington and Madison - it's all above tree line. To camp up there is both illegal and foolish. That is just the nature of the terrain and the environment. Not only is Madison above tree line, there is no camping within 1/4 mile of a hut per Forest Service rule, so the remark that "they don't want guests to see tents" was a sarcastic one.

How much damage can one person do? Not much, but when that one person is repeated 1000's of times, quite a lot. If they let you camp there, then everyone should be able to camp there and there lays the problem. One thing which can be said for the AMC, they do manage a very large number of people over the course of a year with minimal impact on the alpine tundra.

Yes, it would be nice to have a reasonable distance between campsites and given the lack of places to put campsites they are as close together as reasonably possible. If you can't deal with the restrictions for this area, you shouldn't be here.

Don H
11-05-2015, 08:54
The Crew at Madison Hut told me to follow the Valley Way Trail down to a small site, big enough for one tent or follow it to the bottom to a campsite.

BonBon
11-05-2015, 09:09
There are a few stealth options in the 3 miles before Lake of the cloud Hut. If you are not lucky enough to get one, you have a long hike ahead to get below tree line. We knew this and were planning our day accordingly. One of the guys I was hiking with had a knee just blow out after Mt Washington and it took us a very long time to get to Madison Hut. We had planned to hike over Mt Madison that night to the campsite 3 miles beyond Madison Hut. ( because we ARE aware of the restrictions and WERE trying to comply) But **** happens on the trail, like injuries. So when we got there at sunset, they told us they had a place where we could pitch our tent, but first they wanted us to hike down a side trail 1/2 mile to see if tent sites were available at a campsite. They said just go on down and come back if nothing is available. They didn't mention that the trail was extremely steep, rocky climbs down in places, pretty gnarly. And it was dark, pitch black. And the campsite was nowhere to be found. It turned out, we later learned, that the campsite was more than a mile from the hut. It was so dark we never found it. We passed a few people who also could not find it and they were hiking back up to,the hut to camp. We went down about 3 miles and finally found a spot flat enough, after 10pm, right off on a side trail, to pitch one tent and we all squeezed in.
To be clear, we did not ask the hut folks to cater to us. We just asked if we could camp where they let people camp anyway. They sent us off with bad information in the dark when they could have just let us pitch our tent. And they were sort of dickish about it. On the reverse- if they can't figure out how to roll with situations that occur when people are hiking, like injured people who are not trying to suck on the AMC teat but just need to sleep, maybe they shouldn't apply for the hut jobs. What they did was irresponsible and served no one but them.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

jbwood5
11-05-2015, 11:26
The Crew at Madison Hut told me to follow the Valley Way Trail down to a small site, big enough for one tent or follow it to the bottom to a campsite.

It's really not that far from Madison Hut to Valley Way campsite. I'd say you could probably fit a number of tents in there. In the morning, you can walk up to the Hut and you might get free uneaten food, providing the two work-for-stay hikers haven't finished it off.

4eyedbuzzard
11-05-2015, 11:55
There are a few stealth options in the 3 miles before Lake of the cloud Hut. If you are not lucky enough to get one, you have a long hike ahead to get below tree line. We knew this and were planning our day accordingly. So you were planning to camp illegally?
One of the guys I was hiking with had a knee just blow out after Mt Washington and it took us a very long time to get to Madison Hut. We had planned to hike over Mt Madison that night to the campsite 3 miles beyond Madison Hut. ( because we ARE aware of the restrictions and WERE trying to comply) But **** happens on the trail, like injuries.The Hut Croo can't advise hikers to pitch a tent where it is illegal to do so. One, it's illegal. Two, it then makes them liable if something happens because they could then claim AMC told them to do so. If it's a true emergency, then people need to do what they have to do. If injured, the decision to hike 5.4 miles from Mt. Washington to Madison with a hiker with an injured knee and no guaranty of accommodations at Madison wasn't well thought out. You could have descended from Mt. Washington via many other trails to closer camping areas below treeline. You likely could have got a van ride down on the shuttle, or on the Cog, or asked a private person, especially if the injured person was experiencing such difficulty hiking.

As to complaints about the AMC business model: It's a non-profit organization. For 2014, 43% of AMC's $25M in revenues came from outdoor centers. They spent slightly more, 44% of that $25M, running those centers. Another part of its business involves oversight of large parts of the extensive trail system in the Whites. The AT is routed over several of these trails. Hiking the AT either as a thru or section hiker confers no special status. Hikers are hikers. The huts and campgrounds cannot service the number of hikers that use the trails. People should plan their hiking day so that they can camp where allowed (below treeline) if they do not want to reserve hut space. Many camp areas are first come first serve, and many charge a fee. Again, hikers need to plan accordingly. If people choose not to make reservations, they should expect to hike down below treeline to camp, and expect that finding a site off the trail will be difficult in the mountainous terrain of NH. It shouldn't then come as a shock.

ALL OF THIS INFORMATION IS AVAILABLE EITHER FROM ATC OR AMC. It's on their websites. It's frequently discussed on WB and other hiking sites. It's detailed in the various thru-hiker guidebooks. It's written about in most thru-hiking books. It just isn't a secret by any stretch of the imagination. So if some prospective thru-hiker just throws on a pack one fine morning, departs Springer Mtn. and shows up 4 months later in NH complaining about the AMC, then they are quite simply not going to get a lot of sympathy from most people for failing to responsibly plan and educate themselves about their journey. They should take responsibility for knowing what they are doing. It's THEIR hike. They CHOSE to hike including everything that comes with that choice, and that includes the restrictions and limited camping options in the Whites and the associated costs of hiking.

Slo-go'en
11-05-2015, 12:28
The Valley Way tent site is about 100 feet off the trail and is marked with a really obvious white sign at eye level, and is indeed 1/2 mile down the trail, but it might seem a lot farther due to the roughness of the trail and it being dark and your being tired. There are two large dirt tent pads there. You pretty much have to descend all the way to the valley to find a tent site after that.

There is one tiny spot right on the Valley Way not far from the hut which is just big enough for an individual to cowboy camp since it's about 3x6 in size. For the 100th time, there is no camping within 1/4 mile of the hut. Period. To allow anyone to do so is breaking the law, which is why they are dickish about it, it's not suppose to happen at all.

tdoczi
11-05-2015, 12:34
There are a few stealth options in the 3 miles before Lake of the cloud Hut. If you are not lucky enough to get one, you have a long hike ahead to get below tree line. We knew this and were planning our day accordingly. One of the guys I was hiking with had a knee just blow out after Mt Washington and it took us a very long time to get to Madison Hut. We had planned to hike over Mt Madison that night to the campsite 3 miles beyond Madison Hut. ( because we ARE aware of the restrictions and WERE trying to comply) But **** happens on the trail, like injuries. So when we got there at sunset, they told us they had a place where we could pitch our tent, but first they wanted us to hike down a side trail 1/2 mile to see if tent sites were available at a campsite. They said just go on down and come back if nothing is available. They didn't mention that the trail was extremely steep, rocky climbs down in places, pretty gnarly. And it was dark, pitch black. And the campsite was nowhere to be found. It turned out, we later learned, that the campsite was more than a mile from the hut. It was so dark we never found it. We passed a few people who also could not find it and they were hiking back up to,the hut to camp. We went down about 3 miles and finally found a spot flat enough, after 10pm, right off on a side trail, to pitch one tent and we all squeezed in.
To be clear, we did not ask the hut folks to cater to us. We just asked if we could camp where they let people camp anyway. They sent us off with bad information in the dark when they could have just let us pitch our tent. And they were sort of dickish about it. On the reverse- if they can't figure out how to roll with situations that occur when people are hiking, like injured people who are not trying to suck on the AMC teat but just need to sleep, maybe they shouldn't apply for the hut jobs. What they did was irresponsible and served no one but them.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

OR

having an injured member in your hiking party and knowing you were headed into an area where camping was going to be problematic and if you didn't make your intended destination for the night you could have done the responsible thing and bailed on the hike at any of the dozen or side trails out you passed on your way to madison hut.

BonBon
11-06-2015, 20:18
OMG relax brothers.
A) Our plan was to hike and camp LEGALLY. We did the previous 1800 miles that way, so no reason to deviate at this point. (There are, however, published stealth spots in the Whites, that many hikers use. If you don't smoke pot, jaywalk, or roll through stop signs at lonely intersections, please feel free to judge).
B) The side trails were not an obvious solution to the problem,- in fact, many of the casualties in the whites have occurred on these side trails-(according to the signs at the summit of Mt Washington)
and C) Not every AT hiker- if fact, I would guess the VAST majority, do not carry detailed maps with every trail and bail out listed. Most of us rely on our AWOL or ATC guides. Judge us if you really feel you must, however, we were not whiney baby hikers. Just hikers that ran in to a bit of bad luck. Were we going to hit the SPOT for a knee injury? Hell no. (Imagine the fallout in cyberland from THAT) But I will say this- regardless of the "rules"- you know, the ones that make us "slaves" in our real lives, there is no rule or no reason to prevent one from simply being nice.
It is very interesting that the "sages" of this online community resort to "if you can't handle this ..or that.. maybe you should not be hiking."... in so many threads. Is that really all you have to offer, with all of you years of experience? So many judgements and negative commentary. I say this: being new and fresh and not yet jaded- that is the best part of hiking. Let the sages whimper and whine and call foul from behind their keyboards.. Go out and hike and see for yourself what the trail can throw at you. You will figure it out, as we did. And just like in "real " life, sometimes we bitch about stuff we don't like.. Like about traffic for example. But we still drive, right?

Lone Wolf
11-06-2015, 20:35
NOT carrying maps especially in the white mtns. is absolutely foolish

Deacon
11-06-2015, 20:52
How did this thread go from the Mohican Outdoor Center to getting through the Whites???

Starchild
11-06-2015, 21:08
how did this thread go from the mohican outdoor center to getting through the whites???

a---m---c.

Lone Wolf
11-06-2015, 21:15
How did this thread go from the Mohican Outdoor Center to getting through the Whites???

AMC hatred by THRU_HIKERS

Sarcasm the elf
11-06-2015, 21:25
How did this thread go from the Mohican Outdoor Center to getting through the Whites???

Apparently hikers hate these things...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2106/2423321184_26aa8bd6b8.jpg

Traveler
11-09-2015, 08:13
Who stole the back end of your car?

tdoczi
11-09-2015, 09:06
OMG relax brothers.
A) Our plan was to hike and camp LEGALLY. We did the previous 1800 miles that way, so no reason to deviate at this point. (There are, however, published stealth spots in the Whites, that many hikers use. If you don't smoke pot, jaywalk, or roll through stop signs at lonely intersections, please feel free to judge).
B) The side trails were not an obvious solution to the problem,- in fact, many of the casualties in the whites have occurred on these side trails-(according to the signs at the summit of Mt Washington)
and C) Not every AT hiker- if fact, I would guess the VAST majority, do not carry detailed maps with every trail and bail out listed. Most of us rely on our AWOL or ATC guides. Judge us if you really feel you must, however, we were not whiney baby hikers. Just hikers that ran in to a bit of bad luck. Were we going to hit the SPOT for a knee injury? Hell no. (Imagine the fallout in cyberland from THAT) But I will say this- regardless of the "rules"- you know, the ones that make us "slaves" in our real lives, there is no rule or no reason to prevent one from simply being nice.
It is very interesting that the "sages" of this online community resort to "if you can't handle this ..or that.. maybe you should not be hiking."... in so many threads. Is that really all you have to offer, with all of you years of experience? So many judgements and negative commentary. I say this: being new and fresh and not yet jaded- that is the best part of hiking. Let the sages whimper and whine and call foul from behind their keyboards.. Go out and hike and see for yourself what the trail can throw at you. You will figure it out, as we did. And just like in "real " life, sometimes we bitch about stuff we don't like.. Like about traffic for example. But we still drive, right?

you were carrying a spot but no maps?

its funny you talk about negativity when you had plenty of negativity to share, dont you think?

Don H
11-09-2015, 11:07
The Valley Way tent site is about 100 feet off the trail and is marked with a really obvious white sign at eye level, and is indeed 1/2 mile down the trail, but it might seem a lot farther due to the roughness of the trail and it being dark and your being tired. There are two large dirt tent pads there. You pretty much have to descend all the way to the valley to find a tent site after that.

There is one tiny spot right on the Valley Way not far from the hut which is just big enough for an individual to cowboy camp since it's about 3x6 in size. For the 100th time, there is no camping within 1/4 mile of the hut. Period. To allow anyone to do so is breaking the law, which is why they are dickish about it, it's not suppose to happen at all.

So in your opinion is the small 3X6 site on the VW trail a legal site?
I don't know if it's 1/4 mile from the hut, it might be, and it seems to be below tree line, although just barely.

Slo-go'en
11-09-2015, 12:15
So in your opinion is the small 3X6 site on the VW trail a legal site?
I don't know if it's 1/4 mile from the hut, it might be, and it seems to be below tree line, although just barely.

NO, it's not legal by any stretch of the imagination, but no doubt it's frequently used. It's simply too well defined not to be and is the only spot in the area where one could conceivably get away with illegally camping. You'd be wise to do the dark to dawn thing there to avoid notice and beg to use the restroom facilities at the hut in the morning, as there is no way you can bury your poop up there.

peakbagger
11-09-2015, 13:13
That so called site is in the shelter of the trees from the prevailing winds, it gets some use in winter when the winds are high up at Madison Col. I am pretty sure its below the Yellow USFS Danger sign but above the 1/4 mile RUA for the hut. In winter it can be dug down to form a platform. In the summer it is quite rocky, a foam pad would not do much to make it very comfortable lying down. Its definitely an emergency spot to hunker down rather than any semblance of place to set up a tent. Much better to head downslope about 10 to 15 minutes. The surrounding trees are pretty small, probably not suitable for hanging. Beyond it being off to the side of the trail I expect setting up camp in the middle of the trail would be just as suitable.

A lot of the distance downhill to legal camping issue is psychological, folks frequently underestimate the time required to go from LOC to Madison and fixate on the hut as a goal. They wish and hope that they will get a spot in the hut and when they don't, they act like children and resist having to follow the rules. Unfortunately given the amount of thru and short term backpackers many with similar stories, AMC ends up being the bad guy. Hiking down any unknown trail after sunset with a sometimes marginal headlamp is challenge anytime and add in a poor attitude and its gets even more difficult. If the hiker disagrees with the hut crews assessment that their situation is not a valid emergency, the AMC will generally offer to contact NH F&G who most likely will suggest the same options as the hut crew. The reality is that is just about impossible to get lost on Valley Way even with marginal or no lighting so it all comes down to choice on the hikers part rather than an emergency. Contrary to popular belief getting from Madison Hut to below treeline on the Osgood trail is not as easy as some may think. It requires going up hill in very rocky conditions and its fairly easy to lose the trail plus very rocky exposed conditions from the summit down to treeline. Its far more difficult than heading down Valley Way.

There are no issues with using the facilities at the hut in the AM other than waiting in line. Plenty of folks doing the presi traverse stop by the hut and use the facilities. BTW, the AMC owns the land under the hut unlike many of the other huts which are on FS land operating under special use permits. Madison Hut predates the WMNF by many years.

To tie it back into the original Mohican Center post, I believe the Mohican Center is not owned by the AMC, it is leased from the federal government as part of the Delaware Water Gap or possibly from the National Park Service. Therefore they probably have a special operating permit and part of it most likely spells out what services if any the AMC are obligated to supply AT hikers. If someone wants to do the research they could probably bring it up during a re-permitting period whenever it comes up.

T-Rx
11-10-2015, 11:19
We stayed at the MOC is summer in our section hike of 625 miles. The charge was $40/person per night. The accommodations were fine except for a bunk not intended for anyone over 6 feet tall. However, we had 4 people in our group get very sick following their meal in the snack bar at the MOC (all 4 had the same meal). We reported this to the management but they truly seemed indifferent. Not a place I would rush back to, but it is an oasis in the middle of nowhere. Maybe our experience was the "bad" exception to the norm.

FreeGoldRush
03-24-2019, 00:05
Can anyone offer an updated review on the Mohican Outdoor Center? I'd like to stay there one night close to May 10. Good place to send a resupply box? Likely to get in that time of year without a reservation more than a day or two in advance?

Slo-go'en
03-24-2019, 09:02
Looks like they are open then, I was curious if they would be that early. They showed me a full page of lodging options for May 10th, $28 for a walk in tent site if your an AMC member. So, I would guess their not too busy. May 10th is the start of the weekend, so it might be busier on Saturday the 11th.

I stopped by there a couple of years ago in the middle of May, in the early afternoon hoping to get a sandwich. There was no one around. I waited for over an hour until someone came back and they wouldn't make me a sandwich. I guess they don't expect anyone to show up during the day that time of year.

As for sending a package, you'd best call them. I doubt they get mail delivery there. If your NOBO, sending a package to the DWG would be a better option I would think.

Starchild
03-24-2019, 20:47
On my thru hike in 2013 my and other care packages went 'astray' - never showing up here. When my care package was tracked by the sender (after I left), it showed delivered a day before i arrived. With that evidence facing them they sent it back to the sender. It was my first encounter with AMC on my NoBo, and many others who reported the same.

Here is what was reported about this place.

https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/warren-county/2017/03/thieving_appalachian_trail_cen.html

Nice into to the North and AMC.

Astro
03-25-2019, 20:25
FWIW, I picked up mail drop without any issues in the Summer of 2015.

Deacon
03-27-2019, 09:54
They’re pretty good about keeping drop boxes isolated in the back room. I had to sign for my box when I went through there in 2015.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro