View Full Version : Cold meals vs Hot meals?
I'm toying with the idea of carrying cold foods without a stove and fuel rather than carrying foods that require cooking. One suggested that I would be carrying unnecessary water in my foods as apposed to adding water to cooking meals. What are the pros and cons regarding to cold foods and hot foods? One hiker manged to lower his pack weight by carrying only cold foods. I hope to find a way to eat without stoves and fuel. Is that possible? What about those heavy meals that might cause stomach problems on a long trip?
Alot of my food can be eaten hot or cold, and is dry, like oats, almonds, sunflower seeds, currants, dried blueberries, dates, skim milk powder, lemonade powder, corned beef or beef jerky, and tea. So I am warming up to the idea of leaving my Kelly Kettle home, at least in summer, but still having the means of making a small fire now and then, using rocks as wind screen and combustion chamber. Putting the rock back into rocket stove as it were. When moving fast I can eat cold. When I feel like slowing down I don't mind messing ab
Feral Bill
04-29-2010, 12:43
I've done trips of a few days with cold food. It's easy enought to get stuff without a high water content. Think bread products, cheese, dry salami, granola, gorp, dry fruit and veggies, Snickers, etc. You save weight, bulk, and prep time. I'd hesitate to do so on a really long trip or with nasty weather though.
garlic08
04-29-2010, 13:02
Lots of pros and cons to stoveless. I've been stoveless for the last three seasons, about 5000 miles, and it has worked fine for me. I carry mostly dried foods like oats, instant potatoes, instant refried beans, all of which can be soaked in cold water (5 to 20 minutes) and eaten cold. I carry a few heavier items that have more water, like tortillas, but I love tortillas and would carry them anyway. The rest of my diet is dried fruit and nuts, crackers, peanut butter, cheese, which essentially have no extra water. And I also make it a point to carry at least one heavy fresh item per day, maybe just a carrot, but again, I would do that anyway for nutrition.
All in all, there is, I believe, a slight weight penalty when you've just resupplied, leaving town, compared to the lightest alky stove setup and minimum fuel. But that weight penaly goes away very soon as you start eating. That last day, hiking into town with no food, no stove or fuel, maybe no water...you won't believe it until you've tried it.
Another benefit to stoveless is you never have to cook out in inclement weather again. In the blowing snow, you can easily eat in your sleeping bag. Raining all day for a couple days in a row? You can grab a handful and eat as you walk.
A "hidden cost" of carrying a stove is finding fuel. I enjoy my town days just a little more with one less hassle.
The big stumbling blocks for most in making a switch are going without hot drinks, and the perception of the safety of having an easy external heat source. It took me a while to get over both of those.
Going stoveless was the last major step to getting my base load under the 10-pound threshold, which enabled me to switch to a frameless pack, which saved another pound plus. Again, I see the extra food weight as a temporary, one-day issue every time you resupply. The rest of the time, you're ahead.
I'm not sure I understand the question about heavy meals and stomach problems.
Mountain Wildman
04-29-2010, 13:18
I am new to backpacking but have been camping for almost 30 years, I would think having the ability to conveniently heat at least water could potentially be a safety issue. If you fall into a stream or lake in the cooler or colder months or are above tree line in cold temps and face possible hypothermia you would want to raise your body temp and other than getting into dry clothes and a dry sleeping bag you need to raise your body temp. If you are an old pro you probably know your limitations and can avoid dangerous situations.
Bear Cables
04-29-2010, 14:52
I am also planning to do the cold food route this section hike. Found that I really don't like the heavy food. I'm more of a grazer. MIght brings some instant soups if I feel I need warmth or just a little more. Sill plan to carry my gigi power stove and a small canister of fuel for coffee and the instant soup.
I recently completed a four day section hike in GA. First time out without the stove. I did not miss it. The pack was lighter and I avoided the hastle of cooking and cleaning. I also enjoyed smaller light meals. I'll do the same in May when I hike the GMSNP.
garlic08
04-29-2010, 16:20
I have heard at least one story of a hiker in trouble being "revived" by a hot drink. She was over-exerted, over-taxed, sweat through her clothes trying to keep up with a stronger group in a winter situation she was not experienced in. If this could happen to you or your group, by all means carry the stove.
Mt Wildman is right about experience and knowing your limitations, absolutely. I was very careful about the whole stoveless thing myself, and didn't try it until my first long hike on the PCT. I met a strong hiker I admired very much who was stoveless, so I thought I'd give it a try. I started by "bouncing" the stove and cook kit ahead a few hundred miles, then carrying it for a few weeks, then bouncing it again, until I determined I was hiking better without it. Within two years of that hike and in some increasingly difficult situations on the CDT, I was confirmed stoveless.
A couple more benefits came to mind: Dry camps require less water, so you're more flexible as to where to camp. If you have 1/2 liter in your bottle and aren't thirsty, you can have dinner and sleep anywhere. (That makes a huge difference here in the desert, where I've had to go two nights out between water sources.) Clean up is much easier or non-existent, and again takes less water.
buff_jeff
04-29-2010, 16:36
I hardly ever cook a hot meal on the trail. I might just stop carrying my stove because I rarely use it.
medicjimr
04-29-2010, 17:10
Well I will heat my coffee and food the weight of my cat can stove and fuel is hardly a big deal and I can still enjoy my hike sub 30 lbs or less but it's like anything else you hike like you want to hike and visa versa good luck with your decision and have fun either way
I like to cook at the end of the day - there's nothing else to do and it's a way to pass some time.
Mrs Baggins
04-29-2010, 18:48
Cold food = bare necessity sustenance
Hot food = comfy tummy, better sleep, warm drinks in the morning and afternoon.
Cooldays
04-29-2010, 19:06
I love a hot meal on a cold night, hot chocoate after dinner, and coffee on a cold morning. I also just like stoves in general. For me its too important to give up.
garlic08
04-29-2010, 19:31
I love a hot meal on a cold night, hot chocoate after dinner, and coffee on a cold morning. I also just like stoves in general. For me its too important to give up.
I guess it probably helps if you really cook, too. When I carried a stove, I seemed to always end up with a Liptons side or a Kraft Mac'n'cheese or some Ramen--basically warm, salty glop that left a mess and a bad taste, had me guzzling water all night, and added plenty of preservatives to my metabolism. I just didn't like what I was cooking. If you send yourself home-made, home-dried, high quality meals all along the way, that's a different story!
Coffee gives me the shakes, the last thing I need when I'm walking.
Stoveless isn't for everyone, but some can make it work very well. I was surprised how many stoveless hikers I met on my AT thru--nearly 10% of those I talked to stoves about.
I've been considering going cookless for section hiking as well. You could feasibly do it with just power bars as they are high in nutrition and calories.
I'm not sure how much a week's worth of power bars would weigh though.:-? Would probably be lighter to take the stove.
It's definitely an idea to take a look at. There seem to be a lot of benefits to the cookless method.
Alot of my food can be eaten hot or cold, and is dry, like oats, ab
Oats? Or did you mean oatmeal?
SunnyWalker
04-29-2010, 21:06
Dow: I live in Texas. When I hike in the desert, or in areas where I have to carry all my water or a lot I always leave the stove, pot, etc., at home and go cold food. it's been great. Howevedr, when water is not a factor I take a stove. It's been just fine. I thought I'd really miss hot food but I did not REALLY miss it. I haved since thought about doing this even when there is water available. So it got me thinking about it. I will probably do the same. When I hike CDT in NM I will prob do that portion without the stove.
Jonnycat
04-29-2010, 21:24
Heating meals is what seperates us from the animals.
Graywolf
04-29-2010, 21:45
On the section hike last year, I took some Cream of Wheat, Tea, Ramen noodles for lunch, tortilla's and some tuna and salmon pouches with mayo singles..I cooked Cream of Wheat one morning, the other two mornings where soley heating water for tea, I ate the Tortillas and salmon packs for lunch and dinner..hardly used the stove..I might try stoveless this year, just to try it out..
Graywolf
TIDE-HSV
04-30-2010, 01:25
Coffee gives me the shakes, the last thing I need when I'm walking.
Going without coffee gives most people the shakes...
I'd consider cold food, but I like the variety of having a hot meal, too. In addition, I personally get cold very, very easily. This will especially occur at the end of a long day, when I am not sweating any longer and stationary--much better (safer) for me to have access to something that can heat either a meal or drink to warm me internally. I had occasion to have mild hypothermia once in the middle of a summer hike because of this--hiking up, up, up, ... sweating, sweating ... waiting for the others before going down hill to camp. Getting cold, colder. Had to wrap my sleeping bag around me and drink warm tea, as I had gotten the shivers--it was above 70!
Anyway--I like having options!
Mrs Baggins
04-30-2010, 05:31
Going without coffee gives most people the shakes...
Amen, brother, Amen!
MedicineMan
04-30-2010, 06:15
I am seriously studying Garlic's approach to food yet I'm much like gumball-even if it is warm out and I've walked 8 hours, when I stop I get cold...not just a cooling but a cold that seeps deep to the bone. I've learned (for me) to get out of the hike clothes and into wool top and bottom as soon as possible....I've never complained about heat. So I think there may be a very few of us that really do chill quickly. Back to the transition to cold meals, I think in moving to the Garlic way (think Ray Way), I'll be downsizing my cook kit carrying only a small solo cup (not pot) where 1/4 Esbit can heat enough for hot tea...and slowly move to no kit at all.
Heating meals is what seperates us from the animals.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/27/books/27garn.html?pagewanted=all
Catching Fire: How Cooking Made Us Human
sort of an interesting read, although I'm skeptical of his timeline for controlling fire.
I'd like to try going without a stove sometime. When (if) I do, I'm going to try this food item along with dried fruits:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywBwUiq5v4o
TWS
I prefer to have one hot meal at night. I find that if I don't have a hot meal, I feel like I haven't eaten and then I will overeat on snacks.
I've considered getting another pot to sacrifice to the fire and then I could go stoveless and still have hot meals cooking on a tiny stick fire.
garlic08
04-30-2010, 10:08
I am seriously studying Garlic's approach to food yet I'm much like gumball-even if it is warm out and I've walked 8 hours, when I stop I get cold...not just a cooling but a cold that seeps deep to the bone.
With that trail name, I respect your medical knowledge, so what do you think of this idea: Is it possible the cold you're feeling is a result of not eating sufficiently?
The no-cook approach works best for me if I stop thinking about the concept of "meals"--no such thing anymore as breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I'm eating my fill, not just a snack, at every break, which for me is at least every two hours. So I never get hungry and worn down. When I get to camp, I usually don't need to eat again. I believe that may be regulating my core temperature as well as a single hot meal would, for me at least.
I'm also wondering if the calories in just the heat in a serving of hot food are enough to really make a difference to the body, or is it as much psychological? I'd be curious to hear your assessment.
Oats? Or did you mean oatmeal?
Same difference.
The bag I buy says "Large Flake Oats".
The calories from the heat of cooking food and heating hot drinks can make a significance difference in winter. Heating up 900ml of water from 40F to 140F will give you the equivalent of 50 food calories. That may not seem like much, but do that 4 or 5 times a day in food and drink and that is 200-250 kcal, which could be 5% of your diet, and it is heat that doesn't have to come from your body through the process of digestion and activity. So it is an additional 5% heat, which arguably means 5% less food or 5% less clothing but I wouldn't really think of it that way. I would say a Kelly Kettle is definitely worth its weight in clothing on a trip of 5 days or more though, at least during the Fall/Winter/Spring months. In summer it is less important and there is so much daylight you can't hike it all anyway, so its nice to go a little more primitive sometimes, with 3 rocks or whatever.
Graywolf
04-30-2010, 11:08
Going without coffee gives most people the shakes...
I enjoy espresso now and then, I might try one of those Starbucks VIAs next time out..I drink mostly tea when I'm on hikes..I don't know why but coffee seems to make me more thirsty when I'm hiking...
English Breakfast tea with honey in the mornings is what I like..mmmmmmmm!!!!
Graywolf
Feral Bill
04-30-2010, 11:16
Heating meals is what seperates us from the animals.
Sometimes I think that's about the only thing. :mad:
This thread is certainly interesting how people HYOH.
I figure there is hiking and there is hiking and camping.
Even I am on a quick out-and-back I might carry only a waist pack or larger lumbar pack of essentials, no cook or cook. Each time, the choice for me is: how much is this a hiking trip or how much is this a hiking and camping trip?
I really enjoy a good walk in the outdoors: that is a hike. Maybe even for 2-3 days. No real planning, the waist pack or lumbar pack is already packed. I add food, water, or not.
That kind of walk is liberating.
On the other hand, I like hiking and "camping" (not staying more than a night at one place) because I enjoy "camping skills" of setting myself up with reasonable comfort, having a really nice meal, the hot drink of soup or coffee.
I can't tell you how satisfying that is: the sense of accomplishment. Here I am enjoying fresh air and beautiful sights and sounds and other people feel this is difficult, scary, dangerous and are downright fearful about getting out in the great outdoors.
Me? I feel right at home hiking or hiking and camping. I enjoy either one.
garlic08
04-30-2010, 12:09
The calories from the heat of cooking food and heating hot drinks can make a significance difference in winter. Heating up 900ml of water from 40F to 140F will give you the equivalent of 50 food calories. That may not seem like much, but do that 4 or 5 times a day in food and drink and that is 200-250 kcal, which could be 5% of your diet, and it is heat that doesn't have to come from your body through the process of digestion and activity. So it is an additional 5% heat, which arguably means 5% less food or 5% less clothing but I wouldn't really think of it that way. I would say a Kelly Kettle is definitely worth its weight in clothing on a trip of 5 days or more though, at least during the Fall/Winter/Spring months. In summer it is less important and there is so much daylight you can't hike it all anyway, so its nice to go a little more primitive sometimes, with 3 rocks or whatever.
Thanks for the science, Jak. I don't have my old chem or physics books with me.
I'll interpolate your results a little. I think 900ml is an excessive amount of warm water, especially four or five times a day, or up to 4.5 liters. I seldom drink more than four liters total. I'm thinking more about the single cup (200 ml?) of "emergency" hot drink. Using that formula, would that only be about 15 or 20 kcal per cup? Sounds kind of measly to me, like a scant handful of peanuts would do as much (though slower, and not as immediately satisfying, for sure).
Cold food = bare necessity sustenance
Hot food = comfy tummy, better sleep, warm drinks in the morning and afternoon.
I dunno.... a crusty load of bread add some capicola with red onions and marinated red roasted peppers. Eat along with a good, hard cheese followed by some dried figs. Makes a rather nice meal. (Add some wine, though):sun
Time to heat up my lunch... :D
I am currently trying to cut DOWN on my coffee/caffeine intake, for both health and practicality reasons. I usually carry Starbucks VIA coffee (great stuff btw) and a few caffeine pills if I need them. In hot weather I can skip the coffee, but not the caffeine. In Spring and Fall, 1 good strong cup with a caffeine pill or 2 and I am ok. Winter? I need the warm drink.
For what it is worth, on a recent COLD trip to Shenandoah ( mid-April) where I was only carrying a lightweight 45 degree bag with a liner, I was sure glad to have a stove to heat up some hot water and powdered Gatorade before bed. It bottomed out at 36 that night, and I was cold. Oh, and for what it's worth, I knew exactly what I was getting into on that trip, I just wanted to push the limits of my gear.
Rambling I know, but I would say having the option of a hot meal is quite nice, even if you don't need it all the time. Try going stoveless on a 2 nighter and see how it works for you.
-dan-
BTW, First Post... Hello Everyone!
Mountain Wildman
05-01-2010, 12:59
I agree that it would be awesome to go stoveless and probably knock a pound or two off my pack weight but as in most cases with gear it is a personal decision and must be given serious thought by each hiker with regards to their body's needs. Some people are always hot and some are always cold and then of course there are those that are just right, Sound familiar? :-)
Anyway, I am usually comfortable in most climate conditions except extreme heat like the 90 degree days or hotter, But when I get cold, man I get cold and it takes more than just a set of heavy underwear to warm me back up. I may go stoveless some day but what is more comforting than a hot cup of hot chocolate or a hot bowl of soup just like mom used to make?
As always with backpacking it is a personal decision, I carry some gear that most would call me crazy for lugging around but we each set our own comfort level.
And after all, What would life be without coffee? On that note, I need to go freshen up my cup o joe.
Happy Hiking!!!
GeneralLee10
05-01-2010, 15:02
Cold food nothing to it just do it. I am now it is nice to eat while others are cooking. It is NOT rocket science people
I have over 700 miles of cold foods, oh and no coffee!! I'm doing just fine.
ChinMusic
05-01-2010, 19:04
Heating meals is what seperates us from the animals.
That and silnylon.....
I've done quite a few trips stoveless over the past couple years. What garlic says works for me too. It's prob a slight weight advantage but not much.
I think it just comes down to what you like to eat.
I am currently a "section hiker" and am going the no-cook route. There is a ton of food that is great and does not require cooking, simpler, less weight, less to pack, simpler life. Most of the thru hikers I met this spring are not cooking, some of those guys are probably in Vermont or close to that by now. In Waynesboro I shipped home my stove fuel, etc........pack seemed a LOT emptier, less weight, more miles, more fun for me, simpler at night, this is my plan from this point forward, eat warm food in towns and when I get home.
I dunno.... a crusty load of bread add some capicola with red onions and marinated red roasted peppers. Eat along with a good, hard cheese followed by some dried figs. Makes a rather nice meal. (Add some wine, though):sun
Time to heat up my lunch... :D
That's it. I'm hiring you to plan my meals next time.
MedicineMan
05-01-2010, 21:05
Garlic, sbhikes--always a good exchange of info when you two join it...I say that knowing you two are 'westerners' but also knowing Garlic has a mastery of all the big trails and simply that its good to have your knowledge base to tap into.
The observation/assumption of a psychological influence in percieved chill is I think on target...after i read you comment I had to wonder if it was several experiences of flashing off once stopped on big climbs that had etched a memory or was it poor eating habits all day long on the trail. I'm still evaluating! I will say that I firmly believe that was you (Garlic) does is not only the best way to eat on the trail but in life all together--multiple multiple meals and never getting a hunger which would lead to bing eating.
I'd like to think that I'm constanly snacking while hiking and certainly not regimented by the classic three meals/day routine.
I do remember hiking with the Scoutmaster who would religeously stop at 12 noon to eat no matter if he was standing in the pouring rain and a shelter was only a mile away!
I've done some cert. work in the BCU system for paddlers.....in the BCU 4 star test one of the first thing they'll do is look at your kit and see if you have a thermos of hot fluids..if not you fail instantly....so at leat they think the value of a hot cup of fluid has merit when staving off hypothermia...whether that has merit in this discussion I don't know. Anyway great discussion-keep it going!
I enjoy espresso now and then, I might try one of those Starbucks VIAs next time out..
I did my own personal informal taste test at home, not on the trail, and I have to say that Starbucks VIA tastes no different than Nescafe. If anything, Nescafe is better. I now drink a cup of Nescafe with Nido in the mornings at home. (I like Nido better than real milk.)
I did my own personal informal taste test at home, not on the trail, and I have to say that Starbucks VIA tastes no different than Nescafe. If anything, Nescafe is better. I now drink a cup of Nescafe with Nido in the mornings at home. (I like Nido better than real milk.)
That is completely counter to America's philosophy of: If it costs more, it must be better.
toothpick
05-01-2010, 22:36
You might try the small packets of tuna and chicken chunks. Most resturants you can get the indivudual packets of mayonaise and relish for a quick tuna or chicken salad. Maybe some flatbread for a sandwich. Yummy and noncook!
That's it. I'm hiring you to plan my meals next time.
I swear the only reason I am allowed on hut trips by my friends is because I do all the meal planning and cooking. :)
(Last trip? French-Canadian "meat pie" (tourtiere) with garlic mashers and brussel sprouts in a lemon-butter sauce.)
garlic08
05-02-2010, 00:26
.....in the BCU 4 star test one of the first thing they'll do is look at your kit and see if you have a thermos of hot fluids..if not you fail instantly....so at least they think the value of a hot cup of fluid has merit when staving off hypothermia...whether that has merit in this discussion I don't know. Anyway great discussion-keep it going!
That does indeed have merit. Thanks for the input. I also think it is a good discussion, even if Mags keeps making my stomach growl.
I just remembered something I read about why you sometimes shiver when you pee, from the loss of heat. If that's true, the converse would make sense, too.
MedicineMan
05-02-2010, 00:29
speaking of pee...couple nights ago here in the hospital I gave my techs a fun assignment...they were to calculate how many calories are burned by the average human (male, weight 180 pounds, 6ft tall) when drinking 1 gallon of ice water....the body must heat the water you drink to body temperature...ever felt your stream? its body temp...so the gallon of ice water must be heated.
I have heard that most people will feel warm(er) after peeing....human body must keep pee warm and expends calories doing so...Lesson, if getting cold/chilled don't hesitate to pee even if you have to get out of the bag.
I guess I don't need to take any food on this trial:
http://www.google.com/buzz/payalsh3/Zyi9xoaUJkE/The-Great-Chinese-Restaurant-the-food-is-free
Appalachian Tater
05-03-2010, 00:27
A hot beverage is nice on a cool evening or morning and a pot of hot ramen soup sure is nice in a shelter at lunch on a rainy day.
I occasionally hike stoveless. For me the big savings is not weight but time, especially in the morning. I really like to putz around camp, making tea and whatnot, and can while away at least an hour doing cooking-related chores in the morning.
For stoveless caffeine, I mix up a double shot of Swiss Miss Pick-Me-Up with cold water. Works just fine.
In short, if I think I will need or want a couple of extra hours of hiking time as opposed to camp time, I'll go stoveless. If I've planned a lower-mileage trip where I'll have plenty of camp time, I'll take a stove...which is most of the time for me.