View Full Version : New Shelter Concept
Hello, I am designing an Appalachian Trail shelter/information center for my thesis project. A few months ago I posted a topic asking the community what they thought of my idea. Thanks to your feedback I created the final concept and would like to show it to the forum for some final ideas/ feedback.
Below are a few images and explanations of the idea. The shelter would be a self sustainable structure. Inside the shelter there are fold out sleeping boards and a large screen divided into 3 sections.
Each section has a different function: Connect, Alert, and Inform
You can connect with fellow hikers via the interactive leaderboard.
The center panel will have live updates about trail conditions and emergency information if needed.
The third panel will be an information resource that will help new hikers learn about the trail.
The shelter uses photovoltaic cells and wind belt generators to create it's own powersource. All of the materials will be as eco-friendly as possible and use responsibly manufactured products.
Please let me know what you think, and I will post more information if requested. Also for the hikers in New Jersey, this will be on display at the Montclair State University Art & Design Senior Show starting on May 15.
Thank you.
http://www.imagebam.com/gallery/4f6222b9a52e982a752b784f822f1ac9/
butts0989
04-29-2010, 14:32
personally i think its great, but i know a lot of hikers are extremely again technology in the woods. Its sounds like it would be a very simple form of technology though, and IMO the only useful thing that it should be used for is calling loved ones and letting them know how you are.
Also i would suggest keeping the porch on the ground, if not use wood for the base. great idea though.
mister krabs
04-29-2010, 15:09
I like the concept, the touchscreen is futuristic and realistic at the same time. Good information is good information regardless of the format. I worry about the wind generators though. The shape of the shelter and the placement of the generators imply that the wind would be funneling through the shelter. Shelters should get you *out* of the wind.
Curious about what a wind belt generator is! Generally, the idea is to site the shelter out of the wind...
The shelter form is charming -- the winged roof with branch-like rafters is a winner, and the 'A' frame support system with cantilevered floor looks great and you can argue that the few footing locations limit the impact of the building on the site. Absolutely beautiful.
You have a problem resolving the open/inviting and closed/protected functions required in the shelter. Those books and electronics will not thrive in the open areas where you intend to put them. Do the roofs drain toward the center, and then drip through a pervious floor? All very attractive, but you need to create a wind-free shelter area somewhere. I can also imagine hikers playing a game of bop-the-mouse if the floor is an open grid. Actually, I'd be tempted to explore using a recycled rubber floor... You have to pay attention to the 'enclosure' part because you need to have these shelters exposed enough to get sun on those collectors. That means wind and rain exposure, too. Adding some more screening would go a long way to making your design function as well as it looks... AND it looks absolutely great -- congratulations!!! Very nice presentation.
Slo-go'en
04-29-2010, 17:30
Well, it looks neat, like a bird in flight. However, that is the problem. Any serious wind will catch in that up swept roof and it will go flying! To say nothing of all the rain which will blow in, get caught on the inside of the roof and pour off the low end at the back. One good thunder storm with strong winds and that thing will be history.
There is a reason that for 1000's of years buildings are made with roofs that are peaked at the center of the building and not at the sides.
The other problem is that it looks like it can sleep what, maybe 3 people? Think more like 10 to 15. And that grid floor does not look comfy to sleep on. Nothing like having a cold wind blow up from under the floor to ruin a good nights sleep. {Edit} Opps, sorry I forgot you said fold out sleeping boards. How many?
How does the information board talk to the internet? celluar? Who's going to pay for that on going service?
Sorry to poke so many holes in your design, which I'm sure you put much thought and work into. But it really isn't very practical. If I saw a shelter like that on the AT, I would take a picture, shake my head and think "what a waste of resources" and go pitch a tent.
white_russian
04-29-2010, 17:54
First off it doesn't look very durable. The way you have designed it would waste a lot of materials just so you could make it look interesting. Solar and wind are not reliable, just look at the AMC huts, they run propane generators and occasionally their panels will actually charge. How about vandalism? Those touch screens are bound to get screwed with within the first month.
Just another 'designer' who just put some funny shapes together with no regard to real life functionality.
Slo-go'en
04-29-2010, 17:56
Okay, I studied your picture for a few more minutes.
is one end really open on the sides or the sheathing just not shown? Also does the roof have open slots near the center below the solar panels? If not, that roof will collect a lot of snow load. And if they are open, whats to keep the rain and snow from getting inside? And I'm not sure not having any supports at the four end corners is a good idea.
The primary purpose of a shelter is suppost to do just that, provide shelter from the elements. I just don't see how this one does that.
shelterbuilder
04-29-2010, 20:30
Well, Dan, I'm afraid that I have to agree with Slo-go'en and White Russian: while it looks quite futuristic, I don't believe that it will be terribly functional. Remember the old argument: "form follows function" vs "function follows form"? This appears to be a case of the latter - which can be extremely thought-provoking in the fields of fashion and architecture, but at the end of the day, you have to ask yourself, "fashion aside, does it cover my a$$?" In this case, I think that the answer may be "no".
For me, the problem is that you seem to be trying to do too much. Is it a shelter or a communications device? Most shelters already have a communications device (albeit a low-tech one): the register! Granted that it's usefulness is limited, but it can be used to communicate problems on the trail (when SOBO's leave info for NOBO's), and you can leave messages for your slow-poke buddies. Besides, most folks these days carry cell phones - there's your interactive communication!
"If you build it, it will break!" Power-generation devices are breakable machines (breakable by accident, wear-and-tear, or vandalism). That's one reason why they aren't in common use along the AT. When it breaks, it'll cost money to fix.... (I won't even address the electrocution hazard - that's a topic for an electrical engineer.)
A shelter's primary function is...well, to provide shelter from the elements. Anything else that it does might be nice, but isn't strictly necessary. I wish you the best with your thesis, but personally, I hope that I never see it on the trail...I'm too "old school" for that.
wcgornto
04-29-2010, 20:37
Fold out sleeping boards - What are the hinges, supports, etc., envisioned for this. It sounds like something that might not endure heavy use being unfolded and folded every day.
Interactive, touch screen info. boards - Some hikers do not practice LNT. I can see plenty of intentional and unintentional vandalism, graffiti, etc. Also, weather conditions over the course of the year would require screens that could endure temperatures between zero and one hundred degrees Fahrenheit, plus wide swings in humidity.
Conceptually, it has a lot of pluses. In practice, endurance could be an issue.
Rain Man
04-29-2010, 20:59
My wife teaches design at a college here in Nashville. She asked what program you used to design this and create the renderings?
Rain:sunMan
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looks like a lot of material for a small sheltered space. The current shelters are already "self-sustaining." This looks expensive to build and maintain. Interesting art project, with no practical application.
Dan--
Pretty nice from a pure design point of view, but I think it misses the mark esthetically, and I also agree with the durability comments of others.
Esthetically, I would not want to come across this thing in the woods. In my opinion, the materials for a shelter should at least look like they came from the surrounding environment (stone, wood).
The idea of using the shelter as a connection to the outside world is (again in my opinion) not what is desired at an AT overnight site.
As to durability, these structures really take a beating. Inexperienced, stupid or drunk (or all three) hikers do use shelters for more than just cooking dinner and sleeping. Shelters with easy access tend to become party spots, with all kinds of occasionally destructive activities.
Finally, because they are un-heated and open on at least one side, they are invariably wet/damp/frozen inside. Add to that hiker grunge and wood smoke, and you would need to have pretty robust electronics to last for any length of time. We build shelters to last about 20 years before any significant work is required (typically a new roof) and expect them to hang around for at least 50 years with a pretty low level of maintenance.
Sorry to be such a downer on this, Dan. It's really pretty neat--but not for the backcountry.
I forgot if you are far from the AT, but I would seriously recommend a trip to a nearby shelter--if the project is to design a shelter that would/could actually exist in the real world.
Cosmo
Kerosene
04-30-2010, 18:21
The interactive board run on solar/wind power is pretty cool, but I was hoping to see more of an emphasis on the architecture rather than info systems. Don't get me wrong, I love technology and make a good living with it, but there are other types of technology I'd prefer to see in the middle of the woods.
My guess is that these design exercises are intended to stretch current thinking, as opposed to being entirely 'ready-to-go'. If so, then it works as it makes you think. If someone is looking to build one in the coming year then it's got all of the problems mentioned previously.
Regardless, I'm always intrigued by these exercises.
white_russian
04-30-2010, 20:49
My guess is that these design exercises are intended to stretch current thinking, as opposed to being entirely 'ready-to-go'. If so, then it works as it makes you think. If someone is looking to build one in the coming year then it's got all of the problems mentioned previously.
Getting people thinking is great, but I don't see any reasonable thinking in this monstrosity. If there are aspects of a concept that are good, but don't add up to a functional product it is fine. The problem is that I don't see any good aspects to this thing.
Reading some of the comments leads me to ask of the designer... are you a long-distance hiker? Is this what you want to see in the woods, or what you think a hiker would want to see in the woods? I'm thinking along the lines of form following function - this structure might be a nice techno-display area, but doesn't seem very functional as a shelter for a bunch of stinky, dirty, tired hikers looking for a dry place to cook and sleep.
If you're not a long-distance hiker, I'd be very interested to see the design changes you would make after a few weeks on the trail. If you already are, what elements of your travels led you to this design?
....I love technology and make a good living with it, but there are other types of technology I'd prefer to see in the middle of the woods......
You mean something like a kerosene lamp.
I hope you get a good grade on this project, but hope it never gets built. I fear technology creep. If this gets built the next guy/gal has to top it. Next thing you know the outdoors have disappeared.
white_russian
04-30-2010, 23:59
I hope you get a good grade on this project, but hope it never gets built. I fear technology creep. If this gets built the next guy/gal has to top it. Next thing you know the outdoors have disappeared.
Poor work deserves poor marks. If you look at the OP's other thread he solicited ideas for this. Now once you removed all the smart ass remarks and off topic conversations it was universally said to be a bad idea. He didn't listen to the users at all and just did what he wanted. I don't think someone someone get a good grade for not listening to user input at all and throwing some funny shapes together. If this was for an art class it should get high marks, but not for design.
Will you please include "electrified" mouse baffles in your thesis?
............ and amend:
"Each section has a different function: Connect, Alert, Inform, and Vaporize"
It's always good to see people thinking creatively!
I know your thesis is theoretical, but there are some real-world considerations that might to useful for you (and others who may be curious about how A.T. shelters are built) to be aware of:
First, there is the overarching issue of what the A.T. experience is all about. The Appalachian Trail Conservancy, in partnership with land managers and trail volunteers, has developed the following definition of the A.T. experience:
The sum of opportunities that are available for those walking on the Appalachian Trail to interact with the wild, scenic, pastoral, cultural, and natural elements of the environment of the Appalachian Trail, unfettered and unimpeded by competing sights or sounds, and in as direct and intimate a manner as possible. Integral to this Trail Experience are:
opportunities for observation, contemplation, enjoyment, and exploration of the natural world
a sense of remoteness and detachment from civilization
opportunities to experience solitude, freedom, personal accomplishment, self-reliance, and self discovery
a sense of being on the height of the land
a feeling of being part of the natural environment
opportunities for travel on foot, including opportunities for long-distance hiking.
Another issue to be aware of is that of permissions from land-managing agencies. Depending on what part of the A.T. you are considering, it might be the National Park Service, the U.S. Forest Service, a state park or forest, etc. You'd also need the approval of the local A.T.-maintaining club and ATC. There are formal guidelines for Locating and Designing A.T. Shelters and Formal Campsites (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/atf/cf/%7BD25B4747-42A3-4302-8D48-EF35C0B0D9F1%7D/ShelterCampsite%20GuidanceAdopted11-07.pdf).
The A.T. might not be the best place for your shelter concept, but your shelter might be just the ticket for other less primitive trails or settings where the technology and design would be welcome.
Laurie P.
Appalachian Trail Conservancy
He didn't listen at all and just did what he wanted.
Next thing you know the outdoors have disappeared.
It had occurred to me earlier this morning to link the other thread. I don't think the purpose of the original thread was to seek input since he already seemed committed to a particular course of action.
I recall suggesting the project be refocused to provide an in-town offering. It may be revealing a new thread was begun to announce this project's completion rather than append it to the original thread.
As an academic exercise in design, it may have served a useful purpose. I hope all of the comments will be read and given full consideration by the thread starter, others reading now and who may come across it later.
Too many are hell-bent on commercializing the A.T. and view it as an opportunity to generate revenue rather than as a resource of ever-increasing value to be conserved and safeguarded against those who would exploit it for their own purposes. Were this project promoted as a means of conserving or protecting the A.T.'s resources, I would have a more favorable view of it.
I pray something like this will never be permitted within the A.T. corridor by the authorities charged with managing it. There are much simpler and more fail-safe mechanisms for delivering information and it is too intrusive as proposed. People who want the latest technological innovations to access information on the A.T. should be obliged to provide it themselves and use it in an unobtrusive manner respectful of its impacts upon the experiences of other users.
Some of the comments I have read in response to this new thread give me cause for hope. It may not be the end of the A.T. yet. There are still some who understand its purpose and are fighting for it, but their ranks don't seem to include many in their 20s if what's posted here is any indication of public opinion.
Glad to see what someone else was thinking and writing while I was thinking and writing.
Hi everyone,
Thanks for the feedback. To answer a few questions/ set some things straight, I am not a hiker, but I did visit the trail multiple times during my research phase. My initial post was to see what the community thought of my idea, and if you had any useful tips. Now amidst the sea of comments bashing my idea without any helpful tips there were some people who actually helped me define the parameters of my thesis project. To those users (especially prain4u) I say thank you for your help.
This post was to give you guys an idea of what the final design and function is. Now I know I can't please veryone 100% of the time, and I'm not trying to ruin something as cherished and important as the Appalachian Trail. The goal of my thesis was to improve communications and user experiences for newcomers to the trail. I wanted my shelter to become a "destination point" that would encourage more people to go out and explore, to get back to nature.
Once again thank you to those users who gave me some good feedback. This is a theoretical thesis project, there is no way this will be built. If you are just going to bash my ideas and insult me then why bother commenting. If you don't agree with my idea that is fine, but more than enough people have aired their disagreements already and I would appreciate it if you just don't comment.
My thesis design is meant to embrace nature and technology as one entity, because like it or not that is where things are going. sure there will always be nature preserves, but if there is no incentive to drive the youth out of the basement and into the wilderness we will end up with a nation of adults who have never set foot in the woods. It has happened with many other core values and skills, and I hope that the theory of my thesis would help re-connect a "lost" generation with the world they know nothing about.
Sorry to rant on but I think it is the only way to prove that I am not just someone doing an art project. I take industrial design very seriously and am very passionate about my ideas. Hopefully you can see and understand that passion.
Thank You,
Dan
moondoggie
05-01-2010, 15:37
Dan,
First, I want to praise you for your effort and the thought put into the thesis. While I don't think the concept is 'right' for the AT, I do believe that it will work at a state park, etc. level, such as a visitors center. Second, I believe the cost factor in this design to be too much for the ATC. Their focus, money wise, is on trail maintenance, and if not for the volunteer labor, that logistically could not be done.
And I know I will recieve flack for this, but most of us come out here for the wilderness experience, so walking up to that shelter would be like walking up to a transmitter tower, for me...I'm just saying:-?
.................
My thesis design is meant to embrace nature and technology as one entity, because like it or not that is where things are going. ...........
Dan
To me, your thesis statement encompasses man's desire to totally dominate nature at all costs and I'm not so sure this is what Benton Mackaye envisioned. Given your statements assumption, a Starbucks not far from the shelter would be a fitting convenience as well. Oh, the spoils are great.
To radical? Hardly
Now, where's my tent.
Slo-go'en
05-01-2010, 18:22
Dan,
Sorry that most of the feedback was negative, but given the original design goal and the final product, the critisim is justified. Negative remarks about you personally aren't, but are a fact of life on an internet forum and need to be ignored.
Your "shelter" design might be more suitable as an information and rest shelter at a car camp ground or a major trail head, but not as a trail shelter. A little research would have shown you there are some standards for shelter design which must be followed.
It is difficult to improve on the traditional three sided lean-to design, but there have been some interesting and effective variations of that design built on the trail. Any radical departure from the basic three sided lean-to design simply would not go over with any of the groups responsable for building and maintaning shelters.
While I for one would welcome a solar powered mobile device charger at shelters and maybe even a wi-fi hot spot, many others would not. There are a number of hikers who feel just the existance of a shelter is intrustive to thier wilderness experiance and all of them should be removed. Imagine what would happen if just one of these fundamentalist wilderness hikers came across a shelter like yours. They would go nuts. A few minutes with a rock and your touch screen PC and solar cells would be history. Belive me, it would not be long before this happened.
Feral Bill
05-01-2010, 18:55
Dan--
. We build shelters to last about 20 years before any significant work is required (typically a new roof) and expect them to hang around for at least 50 years with a pretty low level of maintenance.
Cosmo
Adding to this, there is at least one shelter in Harriman State Park (West Mountain) that predates the AT. The basic lean-to design has flaws, but has a long history of working well enough. If it ain't broke...
shelterbuilder
05-01-2010, 19:48
...Your "shelter" design might be more suitable as an information and rest shelter at a car camp ground or a major trail head, but not as a trail shelter...While I for one would welcome a solar powered mobile device charger at shelters and maybe even a wi-fi hot spot, many others would not...Imagine what would happen if just one of these fundamentalist wilderness hikers came across a shelter like yours. They would go nuts. A few minutes with a rock and your touch screen PC and solar cells would be history. Belive me, it would not be long before this happened.
Most LCD screens do not function well - if at all - when the ambient temperature drops below 40*F (leave your laptop out in your car overnight when the mercury drops and you'll see what I mean)...electronics in general don't really like the cold (storage batteries, too).
Having designed 2 shelters along the trail in Pa. (and having spent 20+ years trying to keep them from being "dismantled" by users who aren't particularly careful about how they use them), I can tell you that if you build something that doesn't have a full-time staff person assigned to it, then it needs to be as "bomb-proof" as possible; people will think of ways to abuse your creation that you NEVER thought possible. Unattended electronics simply scream: "Screw With Me!" And some folks will...that's just a fact of life.
I'm not trying to be overly negative -- just pragmatic (based on over 20 years of observations). As Slo-go'en said, this might have better applications at a major trailhead (where staff could keep an eye on it).
...........
Having designed 2 shelters along the trail in Pa. ................ I can tell you that if you build something that doesn't have a full-time staff person assigned to it, then it needs to be as "bomb-proof" as possible; people will think of ways to abuse your creation that you NEVER thought possible. Unattended electronics simply scream: "Screw With Me!" And some folks will...that's just a fact of life.
.............
Shouldn't the question be- "Will it survive the first Boy Scout Troupe"?
DanM,
Have you done a Material Take Off? I would like to see a Bill of Materials, particularly for the roof.